Our Last Meal: Loss, Grief and Food

This week is a special episode of Our Last Meal. I'm sharing an episode of the podcast Good Grief, hosted by friend of the show: Nikki the Death Doula. This episode talks about things you should (and shouldn't) say to those who are grieving.

I think one of the character traits I admire most in another person is the ability to fully throw themselves into something they’re passionate about. I’m not just talking about the normal levels of fandom or interest either. I mean the people who find an interest and set out to understand it at the most mechanical level. You’ve met these people before - the ones who mention a new interest in cooking to you in passing and then a few months later they can cook a high-end, four-course meal. Or the person who gets interested in guitar and makes it their goal to be the next Jack White (some people would say Eric Clapton here and fair enough but I have a special place in my heart for the White Stripes). 

There are a lot of reasons people do this. Curiosity is certainly a big driver but I don’t think that fully explains it. It’s more than curiosity - bordering perhaps on obsession. There are those among us who just want and need to know and I love that. I love reading about their passions, hearing about them, and talking about them. My guest this week has made an incredibly successful career out of learning and sharing - and I promise you that I’m not fully doing her work justice. I present to you one of the more interesting conversations that I’ve been fortunate enough to do and I hope you will enjoy it as much as I did.

CW: this show does talk about death so please be mindful as you listen.

I’ve talked a lot about using grief to make, do or accomplish - and I really believe in that. I’ve talked with some incredible people who have channeled grief in to ways of helping others. I realized as I was talking to my guest this week though that there was something else that I haven’t really touched on…closure. 

I think the idea of closure is complicated - it doesn’t feel as simple as just getting over something. It feels like something you have to be incredibly mindful about. Something you have to acknowledge and claim. It’s not a matter of moving on but more a matter of making peace.

Right off the bat, I want to say that today’s episode deals with the topic of suicide. It’s not an easy discussion and may be especially hard for some listeners. If you or someone you know is struggling and contemplating suicide, please reach out to the suicide & crisis lifeline at 988 or 988lifeline.org.

There’s a saying that time heals all wounds but I have a lot of trouble with that. First of all, heal is entirely the wrong word for some wounds. Secondly, time alone isn’t enough. There are some wounds and hurt that don’t ease up with time - maybe they dull. Or maybe they bide their time and throb and ache when our guard is down or when we’re willing to let it. I think that sometimes, we need that pain to remind us how lucky we were to have had someone that we cared about so much. We have to utilize that pain in healthy ways though - not to dwell on it and allow it to swallow us whole but to keep us grounded and in touch with those memories.

CW: this show does talk about death so please be mindful as you listen.

In this conversation, Nikki shares her experience of losing her beloved cat, Yuna. Nikki talks about how she and Yuna grew up together and went through many life events together. She also shares Yuna's unique personality and the special bond they shared. Nikki discusses the anticipatory grief she experienced before Yuna's passing and the process of saying goodbye. The conversation also touches on the bond between a pet and their person and the stigma of pet loss.

It's the start of season 2 of Our Last Meal and I'm joined by all-around great guy and friend of the show, Devin, so that I can hand him the host role. This episode was equal parts difficult and cathartic for me - it was an honor to talk about my grandmother. I hope you enjoy.

Earlier this year, I connected with a former employee of mine, someone I hadn’t talked to in a few years. She reached out to me unexpectedly so it was especially nice to catch up and hear how she and her family were doing, how work was going - and congratulate her on a recent promotion. Towards the end of our conversation, she reminded me of something that happened several years ago, that I hadn’t thought about in a long time. When we’d only been working together for a short time, her father was battling an illness. During that battle, she was out a lot - spending time with family and being comfort to him in what were his final days. I would regularly reach out to her, just to check on her - not to talk about work but to ask about her, her father and her family. When he passed, I made sure that flowers were sent to her from our entire team. 

When we spoke recently, she told me how much of an impact that had on her then and still today. She recently had an employee going through something similar and not sure what exactly to do from the handbook of a manager - she thought back to one of the things that brought her some comfort during her father’s illness - me checking in and offering support…so that’s what she did for them. 

I don’t tell you this story to paint myself as a saint, I’m not. I’m telling you this because we never really know exactly what our legacy is but I think it’s rarely what we expect - at least not completely. Our legacy becomes our actions, words we said in passing, gestures done because it felt natural - all of those things in the in between. 

Content Warning: Today’s episode deals with the topic of suicide so please be especially mindful as you listen. I want to also call out that if at any point, I sound uncomfortable or unsure what to say - it’s because I was. But the point of this podcast is to have uncomfortable conversations and celebrate loved ones. My goal was to approach a difficult subject in a way tender, kind way and I want to thank my guest for her patience and grace.

This is my second annual Thanksgiving minisode where I share the favorite Thanksgiving memories of some of my guests from the last year. However you celebrate, I hope you have a great, happy and safe Thanksgiving. Now more than ever: go share a meal with someone you care about.

For the fourth and final October re-release, I'm sharing one of my all-time favorite episodes with musician Danielle Anderson, who performs as Danielle Ate the Sandwich. Danielle took the time to discuss her music, funeral food and our ability to be silly little animals.

For my third October Re-Release, I'm sharing my episode with Martina aka King Kogi. To this day, this is my most listened to episode and for good reason: Martina is funny, engaging and just an incredibly kind person. I hope you enjoy.

I was first introduced to the content of Martina aka King Kogi through my wife. She had been a fan for many years, watching her videos about life in South Korea and later in Japan. Whenever I looked in to Martina's work, I found someone who was curious about the world around her, passionate about food & travel and authentic to herself - I was immediately a fan. Reaching out was a little intimidating for me - meeting anyone you admire can be intimidating. When we talked, I was immediately put at ease. Martina was funny, kind and so incredibly engaging. During this conversation, Martina talked to me about her love of Japan, the food scene and we spoke about her father. As a father myself, I hope that my daughter looks at me and speaks of me as warmly as Martina speaks of her father. If you are not already watching Martina's incredible videos, please do so (and I highly recommend her Tokyo Tour series).

For my second October Re-Release, I'm sharing my episode with Paula, a Transformational Speaker, Author, and Grief and Relationship Coach. This interview blew me away when we spoke and even more so once I was able to digest it. Paula is an incredible person and speaking with her was a joy for me, I hope you'll enjoy it as well.

I think sometimes about the saying “God never gives us more than we can handle.” I’m not religious but I do find some solace in this saying. There’s something reassuring that an all-mighty creator would take time out of her day (yes, I said her - suck an egg if you’ve got a problem with it) - take time out of her day to bully us. But only bully us because it’s not too much.  There’s something comforting about the inherent silliness of this. And whether it’s the ability to tell ourselves these things or to get through tragedy, humans are resilient in a way that we really are capable of handling almost anything that comes our way. 

My guest this week has no pretense about what she’s been through - tragedies that could have derailed her. She doesn’t shy away from her grieving process and the journey she and her children have been on to heal and we are all lucky that she is willing to share her story.

Marie Scott is an author, speaker, functional medicine health coach and the creator & founder of Happy & Healthy After Widowhood. She joins us this week to talk about the loss of her first husband, how she found strength through cooking and how she helps other widows and widowers on the path to grieving, healing and finding love again.

A long time ago before I was a husband, a father and a responsible adult, I did standup comedy. When I tell people this now, the first question is always: “were you any good?” The fact that I’m not still doing that should be proof enough that I wasn’t. I found out that I’m capable of being the funny guy in the office but not the funny guy you pay money to see and I’ve come to terms with that. Standup comedy was a very cathartic thing for me, something I did that helped me scratch a creative itch as well as work out different things I was going through in my life in a way that gave me some sense of control and understanding.

Podcasting has been similar in that regard. It’s helped me process in a way that makes sense to me. It’s helped connect me to people from all over the world to allow them to share their stories. My guest this week has a similar story: finding a way to process through his podcast: things like parenthood, a later in life autism diagnosis and grief. 

CW: this show does talk about death so please be mindful as you listen.

There are a lot of ways to grieve someone and it should come as no surprise to anyone who has listened to this podcast for any amount of time that I find food to be one of the most powerful ways. I have regularly had guests tell me that they had never thought of food as part of grief until they came on the show. Honestly, I’ve heard this sentiment more often than not. So imagine how excited I was to find that there is someone else who has made this same connection between food and grieving loved ones - and not only made that same connection but is sharing it with the world and honoring the memories of not just her loved ones but people across the country who have passed away.

I’ve spoken about this before but this week it’s worth repeating - social media can be such a powerful tool for connecting us. My guest this week does an amazing job of reaching across states, generations, families to celebrate people. 

TW: this show does talk about death so please be mindful as you listen.

When my wife and I bought our home a few years ago, there were certain things that were really important to us - things that were non-negotiables. Things like good schools and manageable commutes to work were obviously important. There were other things we considered too - some were more serious like being close to emergency services. There were some things we’d say with a chuckle and a wink - kind of joking but honestly, I was serious about. A big one was being close to different restaurants, good restaurants. I’ve said for a long time, only half joking, that it’s important to be within driving distance of a good Mexican restaurant, a good Chinese restaurant and a great pizza place and that last one is especially important to me. 

Pizza was my favorite food for a long time - most of my childhood and in to early adulthood. Even as I’ve gotten older and broadened my culinary horizons, I still love pizza. All different styles, all different toppings, I love it. And when I was looking for a good pizza place near our new home, I wasn’t talking about a chain - I wanted a pizzeria. One owned by a member of the community - someone who didn’t just love money but also loved pizza. A place where care, time and effort were put in to every step of the process - the crust, the sauce, the cheese, the toppings. Look - everyone has had pizza: good pizza, bad pizza but when you have great pizza, you understand what I’m saying. Great pizza can make a bad day pretty good - it makes Friday night in to pizza night. Great pizza is just perfect. 

And great pizza is made by great people. People who have dedicated themselves to perfecting their recipe. People like Anthony and Carrie Lepoma who founded Lepoma’s Pizzeria.

Talking to Carrie was a great joy and an honor - she has an incredible amount of love, strength and resiliency. I hope you will enjoy our conversation.

Trigger Warning: this show does talk about death so please be mindful as you listen.

I talked during the last episode about the idea that pain can be turned in to art. I still love this concept but this week I’m going in a different direction with it. Instead of pain being turned in to art, my guest this week - Dr. Christine Malone - talks with us about how she turned pain in to helping others. About how she took unimaginable, immeasurable pain and not only did she heal from it, she turned it in to a calling that has now cascaded and branched out in to helping so many others. Christine has taken tragedy and used it as fuel to dedicate herself to others and I am so grateful that she was willing to share that story with us this week.

The French painter, Georges Braque said “art is a wound turned into light”. I love that quote because art - regardless of medium - can be such a great way to heal. Healing takes many forms for many people and my guest this week - author Michelle Malon has released two books of poetry inspired by the passing of her mother.

Michelle was kind enough to share so much with me about her story, her pain, laughs, joy and her art. You’ll hear some of her poems throughout the episode as well as responses she wrote to them. I appreciate the courage to not only write these words but share them on this platform.

Like so many people, I use my phone as a means of escape and distraction when I’ve had a long day, I’m tired or I just want to shut my brain off for a few minutes. A growing interest over the last year has been TikTok - I really enjoy the freedom it gives individuals to make content that’s funny, creative, interesting - or delicious. TikTok has removed the barrier of entry for home chefs to share their food with the world and I’m honestly here for it. Food is more than fuel for so many people - it’s passion, comfort…an act of love so I love that so many people use TikTok to share recipes, tips and skills.

My algorithm is pretty food heavy so I will regularly have new chefs pop up and a while back I saw one named Your Barefoot Neighbor, real name Matthew, when his freestyle recipe for Salisbury steaks popped up. His husband told him that he was craving, and I quote “really nice salisbury steaks” and boy did he provide. I immediately saved the video and planned to make them the next week. It was a disaster and I really screwed it up - that’s my fault, not his. But I had more of Your Barefoot Neighbor pop up on my feed so I followed him. I ended up making a pork & orzo dish for my wife and daughter that we all loved. Matthew quickly became one of our favorite TikTokers

A little while back Matthew posted a different kind of video - one talking about the struggles he faced when coming out to his family as a gay man. I won’t pretend to understand what this is like but it really struck me because it proved a point I’ve wanted to make since starting this podcast - grief is not just around death. Most of my episodes have dealt with the passing of a loved one but grief can result from any kind of loss - death, sense of self or a close relationship with your family. I reached out to Matthew and he was gracious enough to join me on today’s episode. Before I get in to the interview, I want to call out that June is pride month and there is a lot of hate going on in the world right now. I’m a firm believer in love is love and y’all means all. I shared with Matthew that I didn’t want to come off as performative - that’s a big fear of mine as I want to be authentic and to me, authenticity is to treat everyone with decency and kindness. 

Bekah is host of The Yooman Podcast as well as a wife, mother and software developer. She was kind enough to share with me her story of the loss and grief of her mother-in-law and how her entire family has learned to cope together.

Jennifer Landon is a VP of Education & Workforce Development, a VP of the National Association of Women in Construction and a Certified Grief Coach. She joined me to talk about her journey in to grief, the affect grief can have on workplace safety and the concept of pre-grief.

Coach B is a spiritual life coach, Reiki practitioner and owner of The Full Embrace. She joins Our Last Meal to talk about the loss of her grandmother and her journey through the grieving process.

Chris Lafave is curator of the Kurt Vonnegut Museum & Library in Indianapolis, Indiana. The KVML seeks to "champion the legacy of Kurt Vonnegut, the principles of free expression and common decency." Chris and I spoke of the impact of Kurt Vonnegut's work and spoke about what a meal with him would be like.

Felicity is host of the Pro Cuddle Hustle podcast. She joined me to talk about what she'd eat on her last day on earth, the joys of a McFlurry and her grandfather.

Nikki is a death doula and grief coach based out of Ohio. Nikki's stated goal is to help others embrace the the end of life and share open and honest communication with loved ones.

Paula is a Transformational Speaker, Author, and Grief and Relationship Coach who partners with clients on mindset paradigms to discover, embrace, activate, and release their authentic presence to the world.

We're joined by host of the Pillow Talking podcast, Violeta, to talk about flan, parenthood and grief.

In this special re-release, we're joined by CHRO of HIVE Talent Acquisition Firm and author of the book: "Before I Knew It, They Were Gone: A Jewish First-Generation American Woman's Journey through the Darkness", Dana Neiger. We discuss the loss of her family, her path to healing and the importance of emotional intelligence.

We're joined by co-host of the podcast Tricky Existence, Jordyn, to talk about pancakes, sprinkles in lasagna and grief.

We're joined by Rebecca Lehrer and Amy Choi, co-founders and hosts of The Mash-Up Americans to talk about grief - for the individual and culturally.

I'm doing something a little different this week and sharing a few stories/thoughts from friends and friends of the show on Thanksgiving. I hope you all have a great Thanksgiving - stay safe and please take the time to fully appreciate the time you get to share with loved ones. 

We're joined by CHRO of HIVE Talent Acquisition Firm and author of the book: "Before I Knew It, They Were Gone: A Jewish First-Generation American Woman's Journey through the Darkness", Dana Neiger. We discuss the loss of her family, her path to healing and the importance of emotional intelligence.