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The Subtle Art of Not Yelling

The Subtle Art of Not Yelling

By Miles Hanson and Bill Small
A bi-weekly podcast for creatives about the creative process. Learn how to finish what you start, ship your work, and build a business without yelling.
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The Pivot Muscle
You've heard, "the only inevitable in life is change." It's not the most exciting reminder, but it is true. Especially when building a business, brand, or shipping creative work. Will you let change derail you? Will it run your day? Or, will you be able to...pivot (ugh, another overused word). Pivot, shift, evolve, stay flexible, flow...whatever you want to call it. It's essential. Just look at your day today. You probably woke up with a rough plan of how you expected the day to go, how's that going? If not today, some day soon, life will throw you a curveball. Plans are important, but over planning will kill all your momentum. Let's dive in. Join Website:
September 28, 2022
Dr. Michelle Mazur - Manipulative Marketing, It Should Have Been Me, and The 3 Word Rebellion
Too many businesses drown in the sea of sameness and leave you confused about what it is they actually do. The biggest mistake I see is jumping into marketing and branding without a clear message that resonates with the right people. Our guest today is the author of ‘The 3 Word Rebellion: Create a One-of-a-Kind Message that Grows Your Business into a Movement,’ a must read for all business owners. She has a Ph.D. in Communication and her superpower as a message coach is figuring out what makes you and your message unique. She’s able to see how your message is valuable and deserving of the spotlight in ways that you might not be able to see. Dr. Michelle Mazur is the founder of The Communication Rebel, message coach, host of the rebel uprising podcast, and author of 3 books. We get to speak with her about: Messaging and building an argument for your business How to actually stand out and not be ignored The important role of jealousy and those “It should have been me” moments The Comparison trap And more… Website: Instagram: @drmichellemazur Join us in Podcast Website:
September 26, 2022
What Are You Worth?
This is a subject that we’ve danced around for a year. Finally, we decided to dive in. Money money money moooney, money! (did you sing that…?) Money is SO weird. Value is made up. How do we value ourselves, our work, our time? We see people doing amazing work for next to nothing. We also see people charging a down payment on a house for bloated programs that over promise and underdeliver. Why does this happen? In this longer than usual episode, we explore all of it. Join us in Website:
September 15, 2022
Ideas + Community = Income, with Darden Smith
Write songs, tell stories, move people. Darden Smith is an Austin-based singer-songwriter known for his lyrics and for weaving folk and Americana influences with rock, pop, and the musical roots of his home state. He's released 15 studio albums, had singles on both the country and pop charts including a top 10 hit, he's scored work for theater and dance, published a book on creativity, exhibited works of visual art and co-founded a non-profit. Darden has just released his 16th studio album, along with a book of essays and photos called Western Skies. Please join us for a raw conversation about creativity and community. Learn more about Darden at @dardensmithmusic on Instagram Join us in Website:
September 09, 2022
One Year of Podcasting
A year of not yelling. Wow that was fast. Listen to us pat ourselves on the back for 28 minutes :) All seriousness aside, we reflect on a year of podcasting. What was easy, challenging, and surprising about it? What are we looking forward to in the future? How long are we planning to do this? Is it sustainable? If you're a creative person, this episode will give you a peak behind the curtain of shipping your work consistently for a year (29 episodes).
August 31, 2022
Josh Pruitt - Doing Stupid Things Really Well
Whether he’s fully clothed in a hot tub with his brother filming ‘KumTub with Us’, or traveling the world in search for an illusive vegetable, Josh is always working on something new and different. Josh is a musician, professional photographer, and true creative genius. Today, we get to wander through his many skills and projects with plenty of silliness along the way. I highly recommend checking out his work. Photography Instagram Personal IG / music Website KumTub with us and other projects he does with his brother 'The tip of the Iceberg' short There are some exciting changes happening around here over the next few episodes as we approach our one year anniversary! Keep an eye and ear out for those and thanks for being here. Join us in the box: Podcast website:
August 17, 2022
No Vacation Goes Unpunished
You ever get back from a trip and easefully dive right back into your normal routine? Us either. It seems like no matter how much preparation we do for a trip, we lose a lot of momentum and struggle to transition back into our work. Is there a way to do vacation right? How do we set ourselves up to fully enjoy our time off? How do we set up boundaries and expectations with colleagues and clients? How about ourselves? A lot of creative people (especially in the US) struggle to justify and find time for vacation. And if we do go on vacation, we struggle with letting go of our work and being present. Bill and Miles discuss their own experiences with taking time off and how we may be able to do vacation unpunished. Enjoy! There are some exciting changes happening around here over the next few episodes as we approach our one year anniversary! Keep an eye and ear out for those and thanks for being here. Join us in the box: Podcast website:
August 03, 2022
Evan Shank – Which Way Now?
Evan Shank is an email marketing & automations specialist and host of the "Which Way Now?!" Podcast. From being in a band, to serving, to real estate, to fitness, to marketing and email marketing, Evan Shank did not take a straight line to what he does today. Instead, he dabbled his way into his sweet spot. Listen to this episode if you’re on the path of building your own business. Miles, and Evan lift the curtain on some topics that aren’t talked about enough. Some of what we discuss… Balance between life and family Age expectations Feeling “behind” in life Turning an idea into profit (SOS) Shiny object syndrome Back to the drawing board What is marketing? Communication What is an entrepreneur? Business seasons Mindset Today Evan and his wife Megan raise their two little boys [Jack 4 & Milo 1], while growing his email marketing agency, as well as his podcast, “Which Way Now?!” - geared to encourage and inspire other entrepreneurial minds of the world. You can connect and follow along on Instagram [@evanshank75] and check out his website Join the box:
July 21, 2022
An Honest Conversation About Money
This conversation is long overdue. Money is weird. Most of us have or have had screwed up relationships with it. We compare our money to others and attach our self worth and value as a human to this made up number. Money can also be a fun game that we can all win. It can help us achieve freedom, health, and fulfillment. It can help us make our impact. But we need to understand how it works and how we relate to it. We likely need to unlearn some stuff. We may not have answers, but we have an honest conversation about money. Let’s dive in. What is money actually The meaning we give it Deep limiting beliefs around it Making money as a creative Feast and famine Money comparison How does money feel to you Changing our relationship with money Money avoidance Website: Join the box:
July 07, 2022
Stacy Fischer – Emotions That Work
Most entrepreneurs don’t have business problems, they have emotions disguised as business problems. Stacy Fischer is the creator of the Emotional MBA®, where business basics meet your emotional operating system. She teaches and guides you on how to use your emotions to start, grow, and partner in business. On how to feel good & do good. She’s a long-time entrepreneur that loves adventure – on the road, on a trail, in your head, and all up in the business of feelings. Our conversation journeys through: Emotions in business Getting out of your head Emotional operating systems Emotional Tools and language Thought evolution The Emotional MBA And more… I don’t hear this conversation happening enough. It really does all start here. Go for a walk and listen to this entire episode. You’ll change the way you look at your work, your emotions, and your mindset. Reach out to us! What stands out to you in this conversation. We’d love to hear from you. Learn more about her work at and and follow her on Instagram @withstacyfischer ----- Sign up for the box: our first call is July 5th! Pod website:
June 22, 2022
The Subtle Art of Connection
Why is it that we forget how important relationships and connection are? We’re social creatures. In life and in business, yet we can easily forget that and return to our cave (especially introverts). Today’s conversation is an important one. Due to technology and the pandemic, we are becoming increasingly used to living through screens. Zoom, virtual work, social media…these are all essential, but they are not IRL (in real life). We cover: The importance of relationships  Human need for connection Relationships as an Introvert Screen vs IRL Connecting on social media Spam messages Pod website: Sign up for the box: Challenge: call 3 people this week that you haven’t talked to in a while.
June 08, 2022
Susan Gibson – Wide Open Spaces & Creative Constraints
As creatives, we are constantly battling things like expectations, comparison, and perfectionism. Susan, a creative veteran, vulnerably shares her experience with songwriting, touring, and writing one of the most popular country songs of all time, “Wide Open Spaces,” for the Dixie Chicks. Susan Gibson was born in Fridley, Minnesota, and is a Wimberley, Texas-based singer and songwriter who has released six solo albums and tours the nation. Gibson was the lead singer for the alternative country band, The Groobees, and is the writer of the Dixie Chicks hit "Wide Open Spaces".  We discuss: Amateur vs. professional Does every wave eventually hit the shore? Making without knowing what’s next? Why we resist the things we adore The creative muscle Pod website: Sign up for the box:
May 25, 2022
James Ghareeb - The Future of Music
For better or for worse, music is changing….fast. From vinyl records, to CD albums, to singles on streaming services, and TikTokers who’ve never touched a guitar. Bill and I had way too much fun chatting with James Ghareeb – a musician (amongst other things) who isn’t afraid of this change. Originally from Chicago, Singer-songwriter James Ghareeb has a unique blend of Folk, Rock, and a touch of Pop. James relocated to Los Angeles in 2018 to pursue his music career. Working with an array of different producers, his sound has built this ambient vibe to it. With inspirations from Ben Howard, Dermot Kennedy, and Bon Iver, James is able to portray many different feelings and emotions. James released his debut album "Colours" in February 2020. Listen to his newest release, Sophia, and all his other music here: Pod website: Sign up for the box:
May 11, 2022
You’re not as dumb as you think
"I’ve already hit my peak…I’ve already had my best ideas, best energy, best thinking...look at everyone else doing it way better than me…why am I so bad at this?” Does this sound familiar? Maybe your mind is nice to you and never bullies you into feeling less than. For the rest of us, it’s a full time job getting out of our own way. We have a raw conversation about how and when imposter syndrome shows up for us, how it feels, and how to kick its ass so you can get back to being a badass. We were hesitant to discuss this topic because it feels a bit tired, but I think we really hit an angle that’s not discussed as openly. If you ever feel like a you got lucky…like “they” are going to find you out, give this episode a listen! We discuss: Imposter syndrome / comparison Faking it until you make it (good vs. bad) Being a fraud, not being good enough Roadmap vs. story Getting out of your own way Everything is figureoutable You’re not as dumb as you think Pod website: Sign up for the box:
April 27, 2022
Toku McCree - The Subtle Art of Coaching
The art of coaching has been distorted in many ways. Have we gotten too far away from what it means to be a powerful coach? There is a big difference between a coach and a successful coach. Bill and Miles sit with Toku McCree for an awesome conversation about what it means to BE a master coach in your business. In this conversion, we cover… What is coaching? Is coaching oversaturated? Being vs. doing in coaching The power of being coached Nuts a bolts of a legit coaching business How to think about money The Coaching MBA In 2015, Toku was living as a Zen monk and trying to figure out how to share his insights with the world. In 2016, he launched a coaching practice and built a 6-figure business in 18 months with no prior experience or network. Since 2018, he’s helped hundreds of coaches develop powerful coaching abilities and build thriving practices by focusing on integrity and mastery. He’s  known for his bluntness, endless passion, and deep dedication to the art of coaching. He’s on a mission to make sure that great coaches are successful coaches, so that more people get to experience the transformational power of coaching. If you’re ready to take coaching seriously, consider working with Toku. The Coaching MBA Mastermind is about becoming a master at running your business with the same skills and passion you use to coach your clients. Business Mastery for Passionate Coaches. Connect with Toku Connect with the pod
April 13, 2022
The Dark Playground
How often do you start a day with the intention to “get it all done” or “catch up on everything? Some days, you get a lot done and it feels really good! Momentum! Other days, you go down a viscous cycle of procrastination and guilt. So how do we find a creative and productive flow that ping pongs back and forth between focused work and guilt-free play? “This episode was inspired by Tim Urban’s idea called, The Dark Playground. If you’re a creator of any kind, you’ve played on the dark playground many times. But maybe you weren’t aware of it. It’s one of the worst places to be. Enter Tim Urban (creator of The Dark Playground is a place every procrastinator knows well. It’s a place where leisure activities happen at times when leisure activities are not supposed to be happening. The fun you have in the Dark Playground isn’t actually fun because it’s completely unearned and the air is filled with guilt, anxiety, self-hatred, and dread. Sometimes the Rational Decision-Maker puts his foot down and refuses to let you waste time doing normal leisure things, and since the Instant Gratification Monkey sure as hell isn’t gonna let you work, you find yourself in a bizarre purgatory of weird activities where everyone loses. – Tim Urban from this article. Connect with us: Sign up for the Box: Podcast website: Leave a review: Leave a voice note:
March 30, 2022
Jordan Mitchell - I'm going to make stuff until I die
Jordan Mitchell is an recording artist, songwriter, producer, and audio engineer. Originally from a small farming town Elkhart, KS he relocated to New York City where he has worked as an engineer with some of the top names in the industry such as Aloe Blacc, Cyndi Lauper, Ty Dolla Sign, Brandy, Nile Rodgers, Blondie, Lil Kim, Waka Flacka, Tank, Youngboy Never Broke again, Ray J, Elle Varner, Kat Deluna, Dev Hynes a.k.a. Blood Orange and many more. This is such an interesting conversation. We dive into... The creative process Habits vs. goals Collaborating with others in your space Songwriting Finding your audience TikTok Myths around "coming up" Earning attention Being an extroverted introvert when needed Let's explore. If you liked this ep, give us 5 stars on Spotify! It really helps :) Connect with Jordan Mitchell: IG: Website: TikTok: Connect with us: Sign up for the Box: Podcast website: Leave a review: Leave a voice note:
March 16, 2022
Jealousy is an Opportunity
We need to talk about this... If you're a human (never know nowadays) you've experienced "professional jealousy." The contraction that comes from jealousy is unlike any other. And it's compounded by the fact that we sometimes even wish defeat and failure upon others. Sometimes it's the people closest to us. Then....the gigantic shame wave pours over us, drowning us in self-pity and stagnation. Ahhh.. You've chosen a path to go down. A profession, skills, and a career to pursue. We're all trying to stand out, be authentic, and build something awesome. It's a vulnerable and brave thing to do. But what happens when it feels like everyone else has it figured out but you? What happens if one of your friends experiences huge success in something you've been doing longer. Jealousy is there for a reason. It's not bad. It's only "bad" when it steals our attention for too long and sucks us into a comparison trap. So what can we do to turn jealously into an opportunity? Let's explore. If you liked this ep, give us 5 stars on Spotify! It really helps :) Sign up for the Box: Podcast website: Connect with Bill and Miles: Leave a review: Leave a voice note:
March 02, 2022
Myles Biggs - Unseen work
"We have to do the unseen work, so that when we are seen, we have something to show for it." Myles Biggs is a lot of author, storyteller, marketer, coach, father, podcaster. His podcast, Relish the Journey, was named #5 on a list of the top 15 Podcasts of 2020, by New York Weekly. That led him to write the book, Unseen Work. In his book "Unseen Work" he's taken an unspoken problem and created a framework and context for it. Join Myles, Miles.....and Bill as we talk about: Myles' wandering journey in varied industries & roles The benefit of being a jack of all trades Letting go of "clarity" and just moving forward anyway Dealing with uncertainty (+ leveraging it) What is Unseen work (3 types) Finding harmony between family, money, career + creative work Consistency (and lack thereof) Failed attempts (flops vs. flips) "Retirement" and its many flaws Being an introvert who's gotten good at being extroverted The Unseen work of Fatherhood (his new project) Connect with Myles Biggs: Host of ‘Relish The Journey’, Top 15 Podcast of 2020 TEDx Speaker Author of Unseen Work - Why the best path to your goals is not always a straight line Website: Instagram: @mylesjbiggs
February 16, 2022
It's not the load, it's the way you carry it
What's one thing you could do every day that would radically improve your life? "It's not the load that breaks you down; it's the way you carry it." — Lena Horne. We meander through... Creators create Human doings Getting results vs. focusing on the result Writing practice What could be possible...? How are you being? Finding your path of least resistance. Habits Goals If you enjoy the episode, leave us a review :) Podcast website - Join the Box waitlist - Leave us a whisper - Leave a review - Connect with Bill: Connect with Miles:
February 02, 2022
Ryan Estes - All we do is...
Ryan is an American Buddhist entrepreneur. As the founder of Kitcaster, a podcast booking agency, he facilitates thousands of extraordinary conversations. Prior to Kitcaster, Ryan owned a media and marketing agency for 10 years. For eight of those years, he has hosted the founder’s podcast Talklaunch. Consistently ranked in the iTunes “Top 100” podcasts, he has recorded 300+ interviews with more than a quarter-million downloads. He is married with two kiddos in Denver, CO. He enjoys training Brazilian jiu-jitsu (purple belt) and capoeira (green / yellow cord), volunteering as a finance mentor, and is an avid sportsman. In this awesome conversation with Ryan, we cover… Ryan’s winding entrepreneurial journey When to stop and when to keep going Are you the person to this? Time managment and knowing how when to say no Can we be the best in the world at this? The power of podcasting Validating ideas (Minimal viable product) Figuring out your “All I do is….” statement. American Buddhism Meditation “Am I doing this right?” Having patience and understanding the process Kitcaster – Ryan’s podcast booking agency. Ryan’s LinkedIn Kitcaster IG ------------ The Box Workshop (A workshop for creatives to finish what they started)
January 19, 2022
Is It Art If Nobody Hears It?
Have you built structure around your work? Or, do you just create when you feel like it and stop when you don't? Do you consistently promote your work? Or do you just post it on your Instagram story once? In this conversation, we explore what it means to have a "Box" as we've decided to call it. A container that holds focused energy around your creative work and allows you to show up as a professional creative, coach, and entrepreneur. We discuss: Masculine vs. Feminine energy Finding harmonry Creating needs boundaries Selling your work If you don't sell, there is no art Showing up as a professional Selling and promoting is part of the creative process Believing in yourself Staying consistent Developing thicker skin Getting support and accountability Creating your "Box"
January 12, 2022
Matt Anderson - You created something, now what?
Matthew J. Anderson finished his first novel earlier this year. "Sign of Deception" Matt grew up in Cottage Grove, a small town east of Madison, WI. His passion for writing started at seven years old when one of his aunts gifted him with a shiny ballpoint pen in a pristine case on Christmas Day. He started Signs of Deception, his first manuscript when he was eighteen years old. Sixteen years later, at the age of thirty-four, he finally gained the courage to show it to the world and finished the remaining chapters. In Matt’s free time, he enjoys traveling the world, reading psychological thrillers, exploring new trails either biking or hiking, shooting hoops, and rooting for all the Badger State sports teams We discuss: Brain fog Writing practice / process Creative journey Consistency Creative environment Marketing your work
December 23, 2021
Clear The Runway
On this episode we talk about why we quit right before we take off. Why we fail to launch, and we take a look at clearing the runway as we move into the end of 2021. (we also grossly over use the whole airplane metaphor thing)
December 09, 2021
Jared Judge - Eliminating Obscurity
Obscurity: the state of being difficult to see or understand. the state of being unknown or forgotten. Webster. From string quartet to symphonies, software as a service to coaching performers on how to make a living doing what they love, today's guest shares how he rose from relative obscurity in music school to the thriving business he has today. Jared Judge has had a diverse career in Music and Technology. Having two degrees in music, he served as an elementary and high school band director and ran a non-profit opera house. As a self-proclaimed tech geek, he has built many websites and apps. When he launched his wedding string quartet, Dream City Strings, it immediately became the top-gigging string quartet in Milwaukee. As the administrative work piled high, he launched BookLive as a tool to automate much of that work and to help other musicians run profitable live music businesses. He now coaches hundreds of performing groups on making a living off of music. In this conversation, we discuss… Jared's incredible story Entrepreneurial persistence Staying in momentum Eliminating obscurity Building a great product Delivering on your promise Being multi-passionate Business puzzle pieces Coaching Enjoy! Podcast website: To support our podcast, you can... Share this episode with a friend Leave us a review (we make it really easy) Leave us a message (cool right?) Sign up for our newsletter
November 24, 2021
Married to Marketing
I've asked for a divorce more than once, but I had to face facts; I have a business, so I'm in a long-term relationship with Marketing. Miles and I wind our way through a conversation about having a healthy relationship with Marketing. I ran a poll and asked people, "what's your relationship with marketing?" The most selected answer was... "It's fine, IDK I'm still figuring it out. The second was, "It's cringy and I don't like it." Why do so many people have such a toxic relationship with marketing? Let's explore that.
November 10, 2021
"Stop shoulding all over yourself" - Liz Wilcox
Ok, this is fun... she loves the 90's. Will Smith. N'sync. Headbands... and she's got a way with email marketing that's allowed her to go from writing a book about poop to being one of the most sought after copywriters around, and her business just keeps growing. With Liz Wilcox the sky's the limit. 
October 27, 2021
The Curse of Everywhere
Join us as we meander through a conversation about the pitfalls of loud ass marketing, knowing what you really want, and what it's like to play music in a loud bar where no one is paying attention.
October 14, 2021
Jana Pochop - Build Community, Make Noise, Repeat
We get to spend some time with the awesome self styled wanderer, writer, pop song enthusiast, drinker of slow drip coffee, and my friend, Jana Pochop. As usual we talk marketing, but also creativity and stating sane. You'll get to hear me forget the name of this podcast, and get snippet of some of Jana's music. 
September 29, 2021
The Treadmill
Not long ago many of us had to jump off the "treadmill" only to find we'd been getting nowhere fast.
September 15, 2021
Jason Moss - The Next Frontier
It's our first guest!! Tune in to this awesome conversation with the extremely gracious and well spoken Jason Moss.  Here's a bit about Jason: Jason Moss is a serial entrepreneur, spiritual junkie, and conscious business coach. He helps impact-driven coaches and entrepreneurs grow wildly profitable, values-aligned businesses rooted in deep service, fulfillment and connection. He lives in Denver, Colorado with his dog Boomer, partner Kimberly, and robot vacuum cleaner Roomba. This conversation was a blast. Enjoy! 
August 30, 2021
Perfect is Boring
Join us for a conversation about the useless pursuit of perfection.
August 30, 2021
Speed Dating
Our first episode! Learn a little bit about us, why we're doing this, and what we're up to with this podcast. 
August 30, 2021