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Cyclical Podcast

Cyclical Podcast

By Cyclical INC

The Cyclical Podcast brings together voices of faithful innovators to gain wisdom, best practices, and post-colonial frameworks to guide you on your journey of leading transformation through the Church.

Cyclical INC is a multi-tiered relationship network of humans who are partnering with the Holy Spirit in the work of starting new churches. Listen and subscribe today.
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#1: Karen Rohrer: Intersecting Adaptive Leadership and Innovation

Cyclical PodcastMay 24, 2021

00:00
33:30
Jonathan Williams: Church Planting Brought on Daily Anxiety

Jonathan Williams: Church Planting Brought on Daily Anxiety

Today Candice and Nick interview Jonathan Williams to talk about the intersection of faithful innovation and anxiety. Jonathan was the founder and CEO of Forefront, a faith and justice-focused organization in Brooklyn, NY. Jonathan’s role included overseeing community growth, developing strategic giving partnerships, and operating as a project manager for various community development initiatives.
Jonathan’s fundraising work centered upon diversity, equity, inclusion, and community justice advocacy. His sharp vision and construction of strategic narratives led directly national recognition for his organization.
Jonathan is currently a Senior Director at CCS consulting and fundraising in New York City

May 09, 202337:31
Brandon Wrencher: Organizers are Suffering from Isolation

Brandon Wrencher: Organizers are Suffering from Isolation

In today's episode, Nick and Candice have a dialogue with Brandon Wrencher. Brandon Wrencher (MDiv, North Park Theological Seminary) is an ordained elder in the United Methodist Church, the founding minister of Good Neighbor Movement - an alternative faith community based in Greensboro, North Carolina - and Senior Community Organizer with Carolina Federation, a statewide, multiracial, multiclass, power-building political organization. 

He is the author of Liberating Church: A 21st Century Hush Harbor Manifesto (Cascade Books) and Buried Seeds: Learning from the Vibrant Resilience of Marginalized Christian Communities (Baker Academic). 

Please review this episode, subscribe to this podcast and share it with a friend! 

Make sure to visit our website, cyclicalinc.com.

May 02, 202343:51
Elle Grover Fricks: Healing From Spiritual Abuse

Elle Grover Fricks: Healing From Spiritual Abuse

In today's episode, Nick Warnes & Candice Czubernat have a dialogue with Elle Grover Fricks. 

Elle Grover Fricks received her Master’s of Arts in the Bible and its Ancient, Near Eastern Context from the Hebrew University of Jerusalem in 2020. Elle is the Pastor of Refuge Church Pullman, a member of the Teaching Team of the BEMA Podcast, and co-host of the Text in Us Podcast. Previously, she worked for five years as a licensed Applied Behavior Analysis therapist and a Special Education Teacher with neurodivergent and disadvantaged youth. She also holds a B.S. in Psychology and a B.A. in Music from Washington State University. She has been happily married to her wonderful husband George since 2013. Elle and George welcomed their son Lewis in 2020, and spend their free time discussing the Enneagram. 

To find out more about Elle Grover Fricks you can visit ellegroverfricks.com. 

Please review this episode, subscribe to this podcast and share it with a friend! Make sure to visit our website, cyclicalinc.com.

Apr 25, 202338:20
Al Han: The Grief of Ending a Marriage While Faithfully Innovating

Al Han: The Grief of Ending a Marriage While Faithfully Innovating

In today's episode, Nick and Candice have a dialogue with Al Han about ending a marriage in the midst of faithful innovation. 

Al is the founding pastor of Perch.Church, a chaplain at Good Samaritan Hospital in Downtown Los Angeles, and a father of two: an 11-year-old daughter and a 7-year-old son. He served as a pastor full-time for 14 years before he became a church planter four years ago where he dabbled in a couple side jobs before landing in chaplaincy. He first worked as a hospice chaplain then became a hospital chaplain, all the while still leading Perch.Church during Covid, raising his two kids, and recently going through a separation/divorce. He is currently pursuing the completion of his four CPE units in hopes of becoming a Board Certified Chaplain someday and continue serving as a pastor part-time. As one might imagine, the past few years have been very difficult for him. Yet, by God's grace, he is still doing what he loves and is called to do.

To find out more about Al Han you can visit www.perch.church. Please review this episode, subscribe to this podcast and share it with a friend! Make sure to visit our website, cyclicalinc.com.

Apr 18, 202336:48
Jennifer Knapp: Coming Out Can Transform Your Community

Jennifer Knapp: Coming Out Can Transform Your Community

In today's episode, Candice and Nick have a dialogue with folk-rocker Jennifer Knapp, a singer-songwriter, author, speaker & LGBTQ+ advocate. She has sold over 1 million albums, won 4 Dove Awards, earned 2 Grammy nominations, and released 10 albums. 

Knapp’s storied career began in the Contemporary Christian Music Industry. After a meteoric rise to #1, critical and commercial success, and with a considerable fan base, she walked away in 2003. Seven years later she found a renewed passion for music showcased in her 2010 release Letting Go. Set Me Free followed in 2014 in conjunction with a memoir, Facing the Music: My Story, published by Simon & Schuster. The 2017 release Love Comes Back Around, produced by Viktor Krauss, pairs her fearless songwriting and strong, expressive voice with Americana style rootsy arrangements.

Knapp recently completed a master’s degree in Theological Studies at Vanderbilt and continues to advocate for LGBTQ+ people of faith through her non-profit organization Inside Out Faith. 

To find out more about Jennifer Knapp you can visit 

WEBSITE: www.jenniferknapp.com  
FACEBOOK: www.facebook.com/JenniferKnappMusic  
TWITTER: www.twitter.com/jennifer_knapp  
INSTAGRAM: www.instagram.com/jenniferknappmusic  
YOUTUBE: www.youtube.com/user/JenniferKnappMusic  
PATREON: www.patreon.com/jenniferknapp. 

Please review this episode, subscribe to this podcast and share it with a friend! 

Make sure to visit our website, cyclicalinc.com.

Apr 11, 202350:34
Season 3 Mixdown

Season 3 Mixdown

In the final episode of Season 3, Nick Warnes, Karen Rohrer, and Brendan McClenahan reflect on the season, highlighting key themes and takeaways. 

  • Are churches in the business of meaning-making?
  • Do faithful innovators need to hustle like entrepreneurs?
  • How do stories create empathy?
  • How do we listen to our internal voices of resistance?
  • How do innovators see and understand themselves as whole people?
  • How do you take a complex situation and make it clear for others?
Aug 04, 202127:58
#9: Liz Lin: How do you become someone who starts things?

#9: Liz Lin: How do you become someone who starts things?

In today's episode, Nick Warnes & Karen Rohrer have a dialogue with Liz Lin. Liz Lin (she/her) is the director and co-founder of Progressive Asian American Christians and a senior fellow at Newbigin House of Studies in San Francisco.  She's also a writer and educator on the topics of race and culture.  She has a PhD in clinical psychology, as well as master's degrees in theology and psychology, from Fuller Theological Seminary.  She lives in Ann Arbor, Michigan, with her spouse and children. 

To find out more about Liz Lin you can visit her at mynameiselizabeth.com, @curiousliz on Twitter, and @lizlinsta on Instagram.

Jul 19, 202139:32
#8: R. Eric Thomas: How can we use story to innovate?

#8: R. Eric Thomas: How can we use story to innovate?

In today's episode, Nick Warnes & Karen Rohrer have a dialogue with R. Eric Thomas, a national bestselling author, playwright, and screenwriter. His books include Here for It, or How to Save Your Soul in America, which was featured as a "Read with Jenna" pick on NBC's Today, and Reclaiming Her Time: The Power of Maxine Waters, co-authored with Helena Andrews-Dyer. For four years, he wrote "Eric Reads the News” a wildly popular daily humor column covering pop culture and politics on ELLE.com. Eric has written on the Peabody Award-winning series Dickinson on AppleTV+ and Better Things on FX. Off the page, Eric is also the long-running host of The Moth StorySlams in Philadelphia and Washington, D.C., and has been heard multiple times on The Moth Radio Hour, NPR's All Things Considered and It's Been A Minute with Sam Sanders.

To find out more about R. Eric Thomas you can visit https://rericthomas.com/. 

Here are some quotes from today's interview: 

  • "I mean, no one is going to arrest me for saying I'm a writer"
  • "I can start walking in a certain direction without fully know why I'm doing it."
  • "It starts off listening to myself, but then it immediately moves to listening to the way I sound in the world... the minute you start involving other people it becomes an interrogation of yourself."
  • "I think of story as an empathy engine."
  • "There is a silence that is so active and electric... listening to that silence is really useful to me."

Please review this episode, subscribe to this podcast and share it with a friend! Make sure to visit our website, cyclicalinc.com.

Jul 12, 202138:21
#7: Candice Czubernat: How do you manage risk during innovation?

#7: Candice Czubernat: How do you manage risk during innovation?

In today's episode, Nick Warnes & Karen Rohrer has a dialogue with Candice Czubernat. Candice Czubernat has been a therapist for 15 years and is the founder of the LGBTQ affirming counseling and coaching practice, The Christian Closet.  She and her team meet with people from all over the world for online telehealth sessions as they navigate the intersections of having an LGBTQ+ identity with a Christian faith.  Candice is a graduate of The Moody Bible Institute and The Seattle School of Theology and Psychology.   She identifies as a lesbian and a Christian.  She lives in a small mountain town in southern California with her wife, the love of her life, Crystal, and their 7-year-old boy/girl twins Deacon and Dylan. 

To find out more about Candice Czubernat, you can visit www.thechristiancloset.com.

Jul 05, 202134:48
#6: Michaela O'Donnell: How do you get started in innovation?

#6: Michaela O'Donnell: How do you get started in innovation?

In today's episode, Nick Warnes & Karen Rohrer have a dialogue with Michaela O'Donnell. Michaela O'Donnell, PhD is the Executive Director of the Max De Pree Center for Leadership at Fuller Seminary. She is the author of Make Work Matter: Your Guide to Meaningful Work in a Changing World. Additionally, Michaela is the owner of Long Winter Media, a creative agency she founded with her husband Dan.

To find out more about Michaela O'Donnell you can visit @michaela.odonnell, michaelaodonnell.com, and degree.org/make-work-matter. Here are some quotes from today's interview: 

  • ""Sometimes it means snorkeling and scuba-diving at the same time... and that's not recommended!""
  • ""The very first thing is to be clear.""
  • ""Practicing empathy along the way ... practicing imagination ... practicing the next doable risk ... practicing reflection on your action

Please review this episode, subscribe to this podcast and share it with a friend!

Jun 28, 202139:25
#5: Erin Angeli: How do different people innovate differently?

#5: Erin Angeli: How do different people innovate differently?

In today's episode, Nick Warnes and Karen Rohrer have a dialogue with Erin Angeli. Erin Angeli is part of the pastoral staff at Commonwealth of Oakland, a new, Jesus-centered community of faith in Pittsburgh. She and her wife Sarah keep a steadily growing urban homestead with raised vegetable garden beds, chickens, and a menagerie of pets.

Erin’s work at Commonwealth is wide-ranging, but her favorite focuses are ministry to the Oakland neighborhood and pastoral care to queer folks. Erin’s goal in her queer ministry is twofold: to provide pastoral care to those discerning their relationship with the Church, and to organize local religious leaders to design systems of support for queer Christians.

To find out more about Erin Angeli you can visit www.oaklandcommonwealth.com. 

Here are some quotes from today's interview: 

  • "Collaborative leadership in a neighborhood context looks like, What do you want to do? And here's what I see happening. I recognize that as a gift."
  • "Just because you're the most knowledgable, most privileged white person in the room doesn't mean you know what's best."
  • "Sometimes another leader has a vision that you don't get... you're not sure this is gonna fly and you just have to sit back. It's a whole other level of the kingdom when you see something you didn't think would work, work."
  • "All you do is just hand people hammers."
  • "If we're feeling stuck, we take the problem and plop it right in the middle of the congregation. Every single time they discern the Holy Spirit perfectly."
Jun 21, 202136:43
#4: Derrick Weston: What inspires innovation?

#4: Derrick Weston: What inspires innovation?

In today's episode, Nick Warnes and Karen Rohrer have a dialogue with Derrick Weston. Derrick Weston has spent the last two decades working in churches and community-based nonprofits in Pennsylvania, Ohio, California, Oregon, and now Maryland. He manages the Rockrose community farm on the Baltimore's east end. Derrick received his Masters of Divinity from San Francisco Theological Seminary, a certification in health ministry from Wesley Theological seminary and was a part of the Re:Generate Fellowship on food, faith, and ecology through Wake Forest University. Derrick is the co-host of the Food and Faith Podcast and the producer of the short documentary "A Wilderness Like Eden: Stories of Food and Faith" releasing in the summer of 2021. He and his wife Shannon have four children and live outside of Baltimore. 

To find out more about Derrick you can follow him at @derricklweston (twitter), @dlweston (instagram), and @foodandfaithpod. Here are some quotes from today's interview: 

  • "I'm realizing I don't know anything about God"
  • "The kingdom of God is like a weed. It's persistent. You can't win against weeds."
  • "We are creating a system where part of creating a soil of innovation is creating a soil where failure is allowed. I plant twice as many seeds as you currently see in the garden."
  • "The more we create environments for innovation and creativity, the more people come alive to the fullest versions of themselves."
Jun 16, 202141:20
#3: Katie Nakamura Rengers: How do you create cultures of innovation?

#3: Katie Nakamura Rengers: How do you create cultures of innovation?

In today's episode, Nick Warnes and Karen Rohrer have a dialogue with Katie Nakamura Rengers. Katie Nakamura Rengers serves as the Staff Officer for Church Planting with the Episcopal Church.  She and her family live in Birmingham, Alabama where she founded The Abbey, a non traditional worshiping community that originally ran a community coffee shop as part of its neighborhood ministry. Katie is especially energized to support communities that are engaging people who have been historically underrepresented in The Episcopal Church, and those that are seeking fresh ways of representing God's Kingdom on the world. To find out more about Katie Nakamura Rengers you can visit https://www.episcopalchurch.org/ministries/new-episcopal-communities/. 

Please review this episode, subscribe to this podcast and share it with a friend! Make sure to visit our website, cyclicalinc.com.

Jun 10, 202137:12
#2: Scott Cormode: How do you innovate?

#2: Scott Cormode: How do you innovate?

In today's episode, Nick Warnes & Karen Rohrer have a dialogue with Scott Cormode. Scott Cormode is a leadership professor at Fuller Seminary.  He has recently written a book called The Innovative Church that describes how congregations can bring the unchanging Christian gospel to an ever-changing world. To get the book, visit https://www.amazon.com/dp/1540962261. 

Here are some quotes from today's interview: 

  • "People don't resist change. They resist loss."
  • "We have to create a productive level of discomfort."
  • "The best way to innovate forward is to use Christian practices."

Please review this episode, subscribe to this podcast and share it with a friend! Make sure to visit our website, cyclicalinc.com.

May 31, 202134:19
#1: Karen Rohrer: Intersecting Adaptive Leadership and Innovation

#1: Karen Rohrer: Intersecting Adaptive Leadership and Innovation

In today's episode, Nick Warnes & Karen Rohrer introduce Season 3 by laying some foundational groundwork and stories. In this episode, they cover...

  • Why did Pittsburg Seminary's Church Planting Initiative change their name to not include "Church Planting"?
  • What is adaptive leadership? 
  • What is faithful innovation?
  • How does imagination and plausibility influence our innovation?
  • Who will be guests on the podcast this season?
  • Why are we talking to authors and business leaders and not just pastors in Season 3?

Please review this episode, subscribe to this podcast and share it with a friend! Make sure to visit our website, cyclicalinc.com.

May 24, 202133:30
#11: Brendan McClenahan & Nick Warnes: Season Finale

#11: Brendan McClenahan & Nick Warnes: Season Finale

In today's episode, Nick Warnes has a dialogue with Brendan McClenahan. Brendan is the Director of Content for Cyclical INC and also on staff at Fuller Church Planting Initiative. He lives in Michigan with his wife and three daughters. Brendan wrote the concluding chapter of Faithful Innovation, and in today's episode shares his perspective on how all of these chapters come together to give us a way forward post-covid. 

Please review this episode, subscribe to this podcast and share it with a friend! Make sure to visit our website, cyclicalinc.com.

Mar 01, 202130:42
#10: Daniel So: Shrewdness

#10: Daniel So: Shrewdness

In today's episode, Nick Warnes has a dialogue with Daniel So about shrewdness. Daniel So is a co-founding pastor of Anchor City Church in San Diego, where he is also Director of Cyclical San Diego, a network of people helping support and encourage new churches in San Diego County. Daniel also is a Cohort Director of Cyclical PCC, through which he gathers and trains church starters in Canada. Daniel serves on the Advisory Board of Justice Ventures International, a non-profit organization fighting human trafficking and modern-day slavery. Please review this episode, subscribe to this podcast and share it with a friend! Make sure to visit our website, cyclicalinc.com.

Feb 22, 202136:35
#9: Rob Douglas: Lament

#9: Rob Douglas: Lament

In today's episode, Nick Warnes has a dialogue with Rob Douglas. Rob Douglas started Lightshine Church in Thousand Oaks, California, and he serves as a church planting coach for Cyclical LA, Cyclical Inc. and 1001 New Worshipping Communities of the PC(usa). Rob also works as a Developer with Cyclical Inc. for both Seattle and Spokane, Washington. Here are some quotes from today's interview: 

  • ""Sorrow can have as much grieving room as it needs because joy knows it will have its place.""
  • ""We are given permission to grieve.""
  • ""We knew [the capitol riots] were going to be on our minds. We needed to create space for lament.""
  • ""Lament is one of those things that needs to be able to breathe. Give it space."

Please review this episode, subscribe to this podcast and share it with a friend! Make sure to visit our website, cyclicalinc.com.

Jan 25, 202134:11
#8: Sarah Dunne Pickrell: Equity

#8: Sarah Dunne Pickrell: Equity

In today's episode, Nick Warnes has a dialogue with Sarah Dunne Pickrell, a painter and fibers artist, Raja yoga practitioner, spiritual director and organizer. She is a founding leader and antiracism trainer with The Open Table KC, a PC(USA) 1001 New Worshiping Community in Kansas City, MO. She is an advocate for racial, economic and environmental justice and passionate about the intersections of spirituality, earth care and social equity. As an animal lover and nature enthusiast, Sarah spends much of her free time outdoors or creating art inspired by the natural world. To find out more about Sarah Dunne Pickrell you can visit sarahdunnepickrell.com and theopentablekc.com. Here are some quotes from today's interview: 

"The [white] Church has been a champion of inequity for a long time."

"There's no one-size fits all. Every church looks a little different."

"Yes, let's organize together, but also let's collectively rest together. Make sure we're cycling people in and out to share the load of this work so it's not just put on a few to transform the whole world."

"Keep it equitable." - Nick

Please review this episode, subscribe to this podcast and share it with a friend! Make sure to visit our website, cyclicalinc.com.

Jan 18, 202137:24
#7: Jennifer de Combe: Discipleship

#7: Jennifer de Combe: Discipleship

In today's episode, Nick Warnes has a dialogue with Jennifer de Combe. Jen de Combe serves as the Associate Secretary of Canadian Ministries for The Presbyterian Church in Canada. During her time in this role the PCC has launched two congregational renewal programs and a church planting support initiative in partnership with Cyclical Inc.  She is passionate about discipleship, evangelism and starting new churches.  Jen holds a Master of Sacred Theology from McGill University in Montreal.

To find out more about Jennifer de Combe you can visit  https://presbyterian.ca/canadian-ministries

Please review this episode, subscribe to this podcast and share it with a friend!

Jan 08, 202130:17
#6: Matthew Brough: Missiology

#6: Matthew Brough: Missiology

In today's episode, Nick Warnes has a dialogue with Matthew  Brough. Matt Brough is the director of CyclcialPCC, a denomination-wide Church planting initiative of the Presbyterian Church in Canada. He also serves part time as the minister of Prairie Presbyterian Church in Winnipeg, Manitoba, hosts a podcast called Spirituality for Ordinary People, and is an independent author and publisher. His books include Let God Be God, Let God Be Present, and a fantasy-adventure series of novels for young readers.

To find out more about Matthew  Brough you can visit mattbrough.com. 

Please review this episode, subscribe to this podcast and share it with a friend!

Dec 21, 202034:00
#5: Ross Lockhart: Ecclesiology

#5: Ross Lockhart: Ecclesiology

In today's episode, Nick Warnes has a dialogue with Ross Lockhart. 

Rev. Dr. Ross Lockhart is the Dean of St. Andrew’s Hall at The University of British Columbia.  He is the Professor of Mission Studies at The Vancouver School of Theology where he teaches courses in missiology and practical theology. Ross is the founding Director of The Centre for Missional Leadership and author of Lessons from Laodicea:  Missional Leadership in a Culture of Affluence and Beyond Snakes and Shamrocks:  St. Patrick’s Missional Leadership Lessons for Today.  He lives in North Vancouver with his wife Laura and their three children. 

Here are some quotes from today's interview: 

  • ""I had an emotion twenty years ago""
  • ""Acts 2 reads like a Teletubby episode""
  • ""Share the leadership""
  • ""Be mindful of who has done an excedingly terrific job of adaptation in this moment""
  • ""The switch to online has often meant it's the younger leaders who have more power""
  • ""Congregations have life cycles. Provide space and resources for the birthing of new churches. Post-Covid, everyone's a church planter.""

Please review this episode, subscribe to this podcast and share it with a friend! Make sure to visit our website, cyclicalchurches.com. There's a lot more going on at Cyclical, including "

Dec 14, 202026:34
#4: Andrea Perrett: Empathy

#4: Andrea Perrett: Empathy

In today's episode, Nick Warnes has a dialogue with Andrea Perrett. 

Working out of Vancouver, Canada, Andrea Perrett is an Associate in New Worshipping Communities at the Centre for Missional Leadership and is the director of two different Cyclical church planting networks. Previously, Andrea has created and led a dinner church, St. Andy’s Community Table and has served at West Point Grey Presbyterian Church in Vancouver. Andrea has an MDiv from Vancouver School of Theology, is a Registered Dietitian, and is currently leading a missional community, the Just As We Are Baking Circle. 

To find out more about Andrea Perrett you can visit https://cyclicalvancouver.ca https://cyclicalcalgary.ca Instagram @andreaperrett @cyclical.vancouver @cyclical.calgary.macleod. 

Here are some quotes from today's interview: 

  • "Our relationships have been snatched away from us." 
  • "We're moving from programs to presence." 
  • "If we've listened well to people, then practicing empathy is showing up and following the lead of people and joining their action. That is our chance to witness to God's love in our communities."

Please review this episode, subscribe to this podcast and share it with a friend!

Dec 07, 202029:21
#3: Terrell McTyer: Inclusion
Nov 30, 202038:34
#2: Bethany Fox: Healing

#2: Bethany Fox: Healing

In today's episode, Nick Warnes has a dialogue with Rev. Dr. Bethany McKinney Fox, the Director of Spiritual Formation for Cyclical LA. She is the organizing pastor of Beloved Everybody Church in Los Angeles, an ability-inclusive community where people with and without intellectual and other disabilities lead and participate together. Her recent book Disability and the Way of Jesus (2019, IVP Academic) explores how to follow the healing way of Jesus to create communities of mutual thriving. 

She also wrote a chapter in Cyclical INC's recent book, Faithful Innovation, which we discuss in our dialogue. You can get the book at cyclicalchurches.com/faithful-innovation-book

Here are some quotes from today's interview: 

  • "God is wildly free and can do anything that God wants to do to heal a person's body."
  • "Even if a person is dying, that doesn't mean that there isn't healing happening there."
  • "What's happening in your body matters."
  • "When we're in worship, it's often a wall of words. The reality is we're embodied."

Please review this episode, subscribe to this podcast and share it with a friend! Make sure to visit our website, cyclicalchurches.com. 

Nov 23, 202023:23
#1: Shelton Oakley Hersey: Introduction to Faithful Innovation
Nov 16, 202036:29
#12: Season 1 Mixdown
Aug 03, 202033:52
#11: Jeya So: Loving the Church You're Starting

#11: Jeya So: Loving the Church You're Starting

In today's episode, Nick Warnes has a dialogue with Rev. Jeya So, one of the founding co-pastors of Anchor City Church - a Third-Culture community - in San Diego, California and is also a coach and cohort leader of new church planters for PCUSA's 1001 NWC and an online cohort director for Cyclical PCC. She loves learning about and being in spaces of new church dreamers and innovators and seeing new ways in which the ancient message is being expressed in current contexts. Her newest dream is starting a food pantry for Asian-American seniors. To find out more about Jeya So you can visit anchorcity.org. Her IG and FB is anchorcitysd. 

Here are some quotes from today's interview: 

  • "I said, 'I can't talk bout things I hate anymore...I want to talk about things I love and dream about.' And that made us realize [church starting] was something we were being called to."  
  • "We felt like we didn't fit the profile [of church planters] at first."  
  • "God has placed dreams in your life for the corporate life of the church." 
  •  "You get to have a voice in what happens...you get to determine what the life of the church will be."  
  • "We didn't see the exponential growth people expected... but that was never the dream. There were a lot of things that were becoming possible with just 50 to 100 of us." 
  • "As an Asian-American church, we always wanted to be a place for people outside of the church." 
  • "They kept saying, "Why can't we just hire someone?" Finally, we said this is just the way that it is." 
  • "As much as I thought this work was for other people, it was so formative for myself.

Please review this episode, subscribe to this podcast and share it with a friend! Make sure to visit our website, cyclicalchurches.com. 

There's a lot more going on at Cyclical, including our upcoming conference. Virtually every church around the world has been impacted by COVID-19 and we are all now in various stages of it. It can be hard to trace the threads of how to understand the church and your role in it and what kind of priorities we should be paying attention to right now. We are gathering a group of ecclesial innovators from across our international network for a conference called Faithful Innovation: Beginning a Conversation for a Post-Covid Church. When you register, you'll get the book too: 11 chapters to help you reflect on this unique moment, and make sense of what it means to be church after COVID-19. Register today at cyclicalchurches.com/events.

Jul 27, 202049:28
#10: Nick Pickrell: Sharing Power

#10: Nick Pickrell: Sharing Power

"In today's episode, Nick Warnes has a dialogue with Nick Pickrell. Nick Pickrell is an activist, pastor and performer in Kansas City. He is the founder and organizer of The Open Table in Kansas City, MO that seeks to be a place of peace and reconciliation in a city divided. He is an administrator and trainer for The Open Table Antiracism Trainings, and board member of Cherith Brook Catholic Worker. He has over 10 years experience doing anti-poverty, anti-racism, and nonviolent communication work, and is active in a number of local peace and justice groups. 

To find out more about Nick Pickrell you can visit theopentablekc.com, FB: @nickpick00,  and on IG: @nickpickdoesnthaveasmartphone. Here are some quotes from today's interview: 

  • ""I decided to do the thing that made me uncomfortable--and because I didn't want to be bored!""
  • ""We want to make sure we're upholding values that aren't going along with something we don't want to become."" 
  • ""We can't be a church that is about reconciliation if we don't address America's original sin of racism."" 
  • ""The whole process of planting a church...is an exercise in waking up to all my own insecurities."" 
  • ""I've learned how to gather people around in order to share power."" 
  • ""Understand how power works within your organization. Then figure out ways to share that power. Otherwise I fear we will be creating oppressive churches.""   

Please review this episode, subscribe to this podcast and share it with a friend! Make sure to visit our website, cyclicalchurches.com. There's a lot more going on at Cyclical, including our upcoming conference! Virtually every church around the world has been impacted by COVID-19 and we are all now in various stages of it. It can be hard to trace the threads of how to understand the church and your role in it and what kind of priorities we should be paying attention to right now. We are gathering a group of ecclesial innovators from across our international network for a conference called Faithful Innovation: Beginning a Conversation for a Post-Covid Church. When you register, you'll get the book too: 12 chapters to help you reflect on this unique moment, and make sense of what it means to be church after COVID-19. Register today at cyclicalchurches.com/events. "

Jul 20, 202050:45
#9: Michael Binder: Creating a Discipleship Culture

#9: Michael Binder: Creating a Discipleship Culture

In today's episode, Nick Warnes has a dialogue with Michael Binder, a professor, pastor, and church leadership consultant. He is currently on the faculty of Luther Seminary teaching ministry leadership; Michael also serves on the Innovation Team at Luther. He helped start Mill City Church in Northeast Minneapolis in 2008 and continues to serve there. He also consults with congregations and denominations in the U.S. and Canada. He lives in Saint Paul with his wife and three children. To find out more about Michael Binder you can visit @michaelbinder on Twitter. Here are some quotes from today's interview: 

""The first time you try something it might fail, and that's ok."" 

""What God has taught us over twelve years is how to adapt. So if this is what adaptation looks like post-COVID, we're ready. We've shifted before, we can shift again."" 

Three Pro Tips for Church Starters: 

  • Pay attention to whatever you think God is saying to you.
  • Be around people who can help you process it well. 
  • You may think you sound crazy -- but that's often a sign God is calling you toward something. 

Please review this episode, subscribe to this podcast and share it with a friend! Make sure to visit our website, cyclicalchurches.com. 

There's a lot more going on at Cyclical, including our upcoming international online conference on August 12. Virtually every church around the world has been impacted by COVID-19 and we are all now in various stages of it. It can be hard to trace the threads of how to understand the church and your role in it and what kind of priorities we should be paying attention to right now. We are gathering a group of ecclesial innovators from across our international network for a conference called Faithful Innovation: Beginning a Conversation for a Post-Covid Church. When you register, you'll get the book too: 12 chapters to help you reflect on this unique moment, and make sense of what it means to be church after COVID-19. Register today at cyclicalchurches.com/events.

Jul 13, 202042:02
#8: Jennifer de Combe: Staying Rooted in Community and Practices

#8: Jennifer de Combe: Staying Rooted in Community and Practices

In today's episode, Nick Warnes has a dialogue with Jennifer de Combe. Jen de Combe serves as the Associate Secretary of Canadian Ministries for The Presbyterian Church in Canada. During her time in this role the department has launched two congregational renewal programs and a church planting support initiative in partnership with Cyclical Inc.  She is passionate about discipleship, evangelism and starting new churches.  Jen holds a Master of Sacred Theology from McGill University in Montreal.

 To find out more about Jennifer de Combe you can visit  https://presbyterian.ca/canadian-ministries. 

Here are some quotes from today's interview:

  • ""You have to establish trust with the people you're reaching. And that doesn't happen overnight."" 
  • ""We really emphasize building care and trust over time."" 
  • ""You have to be building your relationships with your overhead church as well."" 
  • ""I really encourage [new church starters] to partner with a denomination. With a denomination you have history and resources...and a community that stands behind you."" 
  • ""We should innovate and try new forms, but there is something beautiful about having a tradition [behind you] that you can relate to in new ways."" 
  • ""God loves beauty, and we're gifted to worship in that way.""
  • ""From the beginning, identify multiple sources of finance. Don't rely just on presbytery grants."" 
  • ""When you're looking for fundraising streams, look for other foundations and organizations with similar missions to yours, and find out who funds them."" 
  • ""Carve out time every day for spiritual practices.""

Please review this episode, subscribe to this podcast and share it with a friend! Make sure to visit our website, cyclicalchurches.com. 

There's a lot more going on at Cyclical, including our upcoming conference. Virtually every church around the world has been impacted by COVID-19 and we are all now in various stages of it. It can be hard to trace the threads of how to understand the church and your role in it and what kind of priorities we should be paying attention to right now. We are gathering a group of ecclesial innovators from across our international network for a conference called Faithful Innovation: Beginning a Conversation for a Post-Covid Church. When you register, you'll get the book too: 12 chapters to help you reflect on this unique moment, and make sense of what it means to be church after COVID-19. Register today at cyclicalchurches.com/events.

Jul 06, 202043:05
#7: Josh James: Struggling with the Sending Church

#7: Josh James: Struggling with the Sending Church

In today's episode, Nick Warnes has a dialogue with Josh James. Josh James (PhD, Fuller Theological Seminary) is a commissioned church starter in the Cooperative Baptist Fellowship and pastor of The Restoration Project in Salisbury, Maryland. He and his wife, Kate, have been married for 12 years. They have two sons, Abram (6) and Jude (4). Josh also has a highly curated Netflix queue and has recently become an enthusiast of buying sports cards on eBay. (Yes, that is real.) . To find out more about Josh James you can visit www.restoresby.org, Facebook (www.facebook.com/restoresby). Here are some quotes from today's interview: 

  • “I never thought that I had what it takes to be a pastor.” 
  • “Bad news — there are really no jobs for you. You might want to think about becoming something else…” 
  • “One of my biggest fears is starting a church that feels like a split — and despite our best efforts, it’s always felt one-sided. It was never reciprocated from our sending church.”
  • “It’s hard to tell this story in a way that is honoring to the existing community…”
  • “I started to get burned out being bi-vocational and…living this pastoral call…” 
  • “I think through our weird relationships, we’ve been able to carve out a niche for ourself that doesn’t look like other local ministries.” 
  • “We’ve been leaning into the weirdness of who we are in our context, because there are very few places that have allowed folks to be who they are and pursue Jesus in that way.” 
  • “We don’t feel the pressure to cater to our community in stereo typical ways…” 
  • “I have not idea what it is like to walk in a lot of people’s shoes. Yet here I am ministering in a context where oppression is front-page news all the time. We have the opportunity to minister in light of it.” 

Please review this episode, subscribe to this podcast and share it with a friend! Make sure to visit our website, cyclicalchurches.com. There's a lot more going on at Cyclical, including our new book! Virtually every church around the world has been impacted by COVID-19 and we are all now in various stages of it. It can be hard to trace the threads of how to understand the church and your role in it and what kind of theological priorities we should be paying attention to right now. We gathered a group of ecclesial innovators from across our international network to write a book for you called Faithful Innovation (or something like that). It's 12 chapters to help you reflect on this unique moment, make sense of what it means to be church after COVID-19. Available on July 28.

Jun 29, 202046:34
#6: Nikki Collins: Bridging Innovation and Denomination

#6: Nikki Collins: Bridging Innovation and Denomination

In today's episode, Nick Warnes has a dialogue with Nikki Collins. The Rev. Nikki Collins is the coordinator for the 1001 New Worshiping Communities (NWC) initiative in the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.). She previously served as stated clerk and mission coordinator in the Cherokee Presbytery, and prior to that, founded Bare Bulb Coffee, a 1001 NWC in Georgia.

Nikki’s experience as a leader at the presbytery and NWC level has prepared her to be a bridge and interpreter for new worshiping community projects being developed around the country. She hopes to give additional shape, color and character to the 1001 movement in ways that will help the PC(USA) more fully embrace and learn from new worshiping communities being created.

Nikki Collins began serving as the Coordinator for 1001 New Worshiping Communities in June 2018.  Previously she served Cherokee Presbytery as Stated Clerk and Mission Coordinator and, before that, as the founder of Bare Bulb Coffee, a rich brew of full-service coffee shop, music and arts venue, and home to a diverse group of disciples committed to shedding light in the world.

She graduated with a degree in psychology and religion from Wesleyan College in Macon, Georgia and earned her M.Div at Union Presbyterian Seminary in Richmond, Virginia.

Nikki makes her home in Chattanooga, TN and is the mother of two young adult sons and the shepherd of a herd of spirited dogs and a lazy cat.  She loves to plan a great college football tailgate, paddle a kayak, swing a tennis racket, and dig in the dirt.

You can learn more about Nikki at newchurchnewway.org  and onethousandone.org

Here are some quotes from the interview: 

  • ""Where are we really feeling energized as a community? What do we love? And what does that look like for some people...who would love to do this with us, who would be comforted or challenged, or might grow in the ways that the Spirit is...growing us?"" 
  • ""Keep the rent cheap and travel... be in the community. Don't lock yourself into obligations that keep you from being involved with the community."" 
  • ""How does this message translate here? What am I seeing and learning from this person?"" 
  • ""This is a thing we're going to live, and we always have to be checking ourselves on that."" 
  • ""We have to remember to communicate the story [of our community's growth] back to our partners."" 
  • ""...Look for opportunities to give away power and allow my core leaders and team to grow."" 

Please review this episode, subscribe to this podcast and share it with a friend! Make sure to visit our website, cyclicalchurches.com. 

In the podcast intro, we mentioned other podcasts that can help us learn and grow in antiracism:

Jun 22, 202050:54
#5: Martin Garcia: Are You Building a Frankenstein Church?

#5: Martin Garcia: Are You Building a Frankenstein Church?

In today's episode, Nick Warnes has a dialogue with Martin Garcia, who has planted two churches since 1993 when he started his ministry. Martin has also been a consultant for churches of different denominations. Martin has more than 23 years of experience working for the nonprofit sector. He has also taught for several educational institutions.

Martin is currently is doing a Doctor in Ministry degree in Missional Leadership at Pittsburgh Theological Seminary, and is the Temporary Pastor of the Spanish Language Ministry of Pasadena Presbyterian Church. 

Here are some quotes from the interview: 

"Today you have people who don't even know what Church is.""

""Figure out what it is you want to do. That is going to be the outline for everything else.""

""Sometimes they don't even do discernment, they just start without thinking. They just start the worship service, and they are thinking, 'Okay what people want is Hillsong worship.' What they are doing is building a Frankenstein monster that talks but does not have a soul because it does not have a vision or a direction.""

""The most critical stage is discernment. If you don't have good discernment, you will be very frustrated."

Please review this episode, subscribe to this podcast and share it with a friend! Make sure to visit our website, cyclicalchurches.com. There's a lot more going on at Cyclical, including the upcoming webinar: Practices of Renewal and Justice on Thursday June 18th at 4pm PST. Register for free at cyclicalchurches.com/events.

Jun 08, 202055:21
#4: Najuma Smith-Pollard: Starting With No Budget

#4: Najuma Smith-Pollard: Starting With No Budget

In today's episode, Nick Warnes has a dialogue with Najuma Smith-Pollard. 

As program manager for the USC Cecil Murray Center for Community Engagement, the Rev. Najuma Smith-Pollard combines her experience as a pastor and expertise as a community leader to run programs that train pastors to take on civic engagement work. Rev Najuma is the founding Pastor of Word of Encouragement Community Church, in Los Angeles.

Smith-Pollard also is a motivational speaker and trainer, author, radio personality and community activist. Her areas of expertise Preaching, Women Clergy, Sexual Violence, Faith Leadership, Black Church and Civic Engagement.. Here are some quotes from the interview: 

""I'm hearing y'all say you want church. If that's what you want, we need to see that you're consistently attending, growing and giving for a year.""

""Tithing is about showing God that we want this.""

""I had no budget, no pastor's salary, no praise and worship team, no choir. It was just a vision, the handful of people that were committed to Bible study, and that's it.""

""God showed me a dream about a big building, and I was like, 'yeah, right.' I pulled up to the building and it was the same building as the dream.""

""I know I'm not gonna see 80% of y'all next Sunday.""

""Here's the things we are about: Service to the community, growing spiritually, reaching out to the unchurched and those who have been hurt by church, and civically engaged.""

""You don't have all the answers. Listen to the wisdom of others who have done this before.""

""Make space for a lot of mistakes.""

Please review this episode, subscribe to this podcast and share it with a friend! Make sure to visit our website, cyclicalchurches.com. There's a lot more going on at Cyclical, including Developing a COVID-19 Ecclesiology, Building a Family Ministry, a newly published book by Lisa Patriquin, PhD, available for free download or for purchase at cyclicalchurches.com/resources.

Jun 01, 202047:22
#3: Andrea Perrett: When Will You Be a "Real Church"?
May 25, 202050:12
#2: Matthew Brough: Forming a Church Identity Without Building

#2: Matthew Brough: Forming a Church Identity Without Building

In today's episode, Nick Warnes has a dialogue with Matt Brough. Matt Brough is the director of CyclcialPCC, a denomination-wide Church planting initiative of the Presbyterian Church in Canada. He also serves part time as the minister of Prairie Presbyterian Church in Winnipeg, Manitoba, hosts a podcast called Spirituality for Ordinary People, and is an independent author and publisher. His books include Let God Be God: Give Control to the Only One Who Can Set You Free, Let God Be Present: Uncovering the Will, Courage, and Persistence to Truly Connect, and a fantasy-adventure series of novels for young readers (Book 1: Del Ryder and the Crystal Seed)
. Here are some quotes from the interview: "We think of these institutional bodies as impersonal, but they are actually the church discerning God's presence"

"What I was doing was forming a core team but I didn't know it."

"I would spend a lot longer in planning, discernment, and prayer..."

"I look back and I think, What was God up to? Because our identity as a congregation got a lot stronger than if we had built."

"In church planting, it always feels like the next thing is really important. I would encourage people to take their time, to have a long view. Take your time in discernment and starting steps."

Please review this episode, subscribe to this podcast and share it with a friend! Make sure to visit our website,
cyclicalchurches.com. There's a lot more going on at Cyclical, including Developing a COVID-19 eBook, which you can download for free along with other resources at cyclicalchurches.com/resources.
May 18, 202049:41
#1: Terrell McTyer: Knowing Yourself Before Starting

#1: Terrell McTyer: Knowing Yourself Before Starting

In today's episode, Nick Warnes has a dialogue with Terrell McTyer. Pastor Terrell L McTyer serves as the Minister of New Church Strategies for the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) in the United States and Canada. He is the founding pastor of Manifestation Christian Center (Kansas City, MO) which was an innovative, cause-driven gathering of young people steeped in unique tactics for discipleship, social enterprise and leadership development. Today, Terrell works to teach, equip, assist and multiply leaders through the New Church Ministry with an aim to increase missional efficacy and efficiency towards starting sustainable, world-changing churches.
Here are some quotes from the interview:

"I never had aspirations of being a mega church. For me the goal was never standing in front of 1,000 people preaching. When we opened the church, we had a no-sermon policy.""

""What we do is we have vision, and we go out and find people to support that vision. That's the wrong approach. Whoever you have with you right now is who God has with you for a purpose. So we have to figure out what are the gifts and the strengths of the team that you have right now and what can come out of that?""

""I 100% believed and 100% didn't believe at the same time. All the time I was doing it with faith, I still had self doubt and self deceit.""

""Whatever you choose is the right answer. It's gonna be okay. The only thing that's not okay is to do nothing on earth. Do something that contributes to the economy of the kingdom.""

""You're going to make mistakes. But if you don't know yourself, there will be human casualties to those mistakes.""

""You cannot do this by yourself."
Please review this episode, subscribe to this podcast and share it with a friend! Make sure to visit our website,
cyclicalchurches.com. There's a lot more going on at Cyclical, including the Developing a COVID-19 eBook. You can download this and other resources for free at cyclicalchurches.com/resources.
May 11, 202047:53
Season Pilot

Season Pilot

Brendan McClenahan and Nick Warnes introduce the podcast. They discuss the one common challenge church starters and discerners face, why Cyclical is creating a podcast, and what you can expect from the upcoming interviews.
Apr 04, 202011:53