How NOT To Start A Damn Brewery: the podcast

Rachel Rappa didn’t make beer. She imagined into life what grew into a large-scale kombucha brewery on Long Island in New York. 

But the similarities between what she experienced growing her fermented sweet tea business to the craft beer industry are startling. She dealt with distributors, retailers, employees, seasonality, limited access to growth capital and packaging issues, just like we do. 

She started as an artistic homebrewer and ended up owning 20BBL tanks and brewing primarily core styles. That could be the origin story for 80% of the craft breweries in America. 

As you’ll hear, I really wanted to ask her about the advantages of Direct To Consumer sales, which turned out not to be the savior so many craft brewers think it is. 

What really struck me about Rachel’s story was her journey to personal redemption. In the 3rd segment we really dive into why she finally closed her dream and why she’s now experiencing a depth of happiness deeper than she’s ever known. Her advice earned from her experience should inspire everyone everywhere to linger a little longer in front of the mirror today.

So sit back, listen in and let Rachel Rappa and the story of New York’s Coastal Craft Kombucha teach you how NOT to start a Damn brewery. 

When Dennis Espinosa partnered with his mom to open Main and 6 in Jacksonville Florida he had the highest of hopes. 

In 2017, like pretty much everyone in craft beer, he only saw victory ahead. 

Most people would agree that he was set up for success. He started with award-winning beers, bought the building and hired an designer to make it special. He won more awards for his beer, actually a ton of them from 2019/2020. 

In the brewery’s 5th year, he won the coveted GABF Brewery of the Year. And was closed down less than 10 months later. 

There are a lot of reasons for why his brewery died. Some we’ve heard before but some will surprise you. So listen in as we share the story of Dennis Espinosa and Jacksonville’s Main and 6 Brewing Company so we can learn How NOT To Start a Damn Brewery.

In 2023, the Australian Beer market was shocked by the announcement that a beloved brewery that had been awarded close to 40 medals for their beer was shutting down. 

After 9 years blazing the path of Australia’s craft beer scene, Exit Brewing was planning to exit the brewing industry. 

Around 2010, Grum & Frase had been inspired to start a brewery after spending time in Europe immersed in their beer culture. 4 years later they released their first beer, a saison. As their company grew, they expanded to an off-site taproom, followed by national and then international distribution. 

But, like most of us, they couldn’t seem to find whatever rock profitability was hiding under. They tried rebrands, new beers, new partnerships. Frase left to get a real job. 

I sat down with Grum to find out what happened, what went wrong and what the future of the Australian Craft Beer scene looks like. Hint: Grum exited it. 

So open your minds and ears and listen to the story of Craig "Grum" Knight and Melbourne Australia’s Exit Brewing.

When Jason and Heather decided to open their brewery in Indiana they, like most of us, decided to do it their way. They looked at what existed and targeted providing their community with something new. 

Jason made beer styles that he respected in traditional ways. That meant lower abv beers with flavor and consistency. The couple decided to specialize in their food offerings and target an underserved demographic in their market. That meant building one of the only vegan breweries I’ve ever heard of. 

While their niche within a niche might be smaller than the one you set out to fill, in a way, every craft brewery does exactly this. They look at what they perceive as the boring and stale market that currently exists and dream up something new and exciting that will attract customers and their credit cards. 

Jason hit all the road blocks head-on and did so very publicly. After fighting against Covid, toxic masculinity and a suboptimal location, he and Heather finally lowered the curtain on Escape Velocity Brewing in the summer of 2023. 

There’s a lot to learn here so open up and listen in. This is the story of Jason Behanna and Lafayette, Indiana’s late Escape Velocity Brewing. 

When Doug Appeldoorn got the inspiration to open his brewery, he wasn’t just any old home brewer. 

He and co-founder Pietro first started a brewing collective that hosted events to champion creativity, inclusivity and the homebrew community of Toronto, Canada. 

They followed virtually every home brewer’s dream and found a permanent space to create a brewery with the dream of taking their homebrew community with them on their journey to go pro. They hosted events for them, maintained taps for their beer and sponsored their everts. All while trying to grow their own fledging craft beer brand. 

After opening in 2018 it didn’t take long for the financial part of running a brewery to take it’s toll on Doug. While his story and the story or People’s Pint hits some of the same notes we’ve heard already, I can assure you that his is a unique perspective that I’m proud to have the opportunity to share with y’all. 

So please, settle in and enjoy the story of Doug Appeldoorn and Toronto’s People’s Pint Brewing Company.

That may have been the moment that solidified the future of Oregon’s Flat Tail Brewery. 

But the story of success, failure, embezzlement, money laundering and rebirth on the timeline of Dave Marliave’s craft beer career has so much more to teach us. 

So I sat down with Dave to discuss what he’s felt, what he’s learned and how you can protect yourself from thieving partners and monopolistic distributors. 

While the public demise of Flat Tail still swings in the breeze as one of craft beer’s bloodiest white collar true crime cases, the rise of New Spring and Dave’s impressive technical achievements are an inspiring look at how we can all make this industry better. 

And here is the story of Dave Marliave, the late Flat Tail Brewing and the new New Spring Brewing. 

I think most of you would think that if I gave you 2300 shareholders that would invest 2.2 million dollars in your brewery that you could make it work. 

If I said you could secure another 400 grand from a state loan and 600K the SBA that your 3.2 million dollars would give your brewery a runway to space travel. 

And if I said you could go back in time to when there were only a few hundred US microbreweries you’d think I was crazy. Remember that with inflation, that’s like having 10 million dollars cash and you could still be the 3rd or 4th brewery in your state. 

Well, back in the 90’s, Guy Hagner raised that money and Guy Wagner built that brewery. He opened with a world-class facility, a licensing deal for one of the best pilsners in the world and he closed 7 months later. 

He’s never spoken publicly about the story of Franconia Brewing until now. The is a special interview that draws similarities to the current market and, if you’re paying attention, the business model of craft beer overall. And with that, I’ll get out of the way and let Guy share his story. 

It’s important to me to dig deep and wide into the US craft beer scene. And while I plan to maintain at least 80% of my content domestically, we can’t solve the problems of the business of craft beer with a US based myopia. 

So I’ve been searching the globe for stories of craft beer closures in other countries. 

That’s how I found myself in Steve Dunkley’s orbit listening to his story and the story of Manchester’s Brewery Nouveaux. 

Steve started small as Hell because in the UK you can open a brewery in your garage. You can bottle by hand and you can deliver your beer on a bike. And, apparently, on public transportation. 

He created a brewery that researched and resurrected historic styles, incubated other breweries and opened an oasis for the weird. 

And if he had it to do all over again, he’d stay in his garage. 

Now, what does it say about the industry when the artistic, creative brewers that bring brains heart and soul to their craft and even they can’t make the business of beer work? Listen to the story of Steve Dunkley and Brewery Nouveaux and you tell me. 

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Hedgehog Brewing was founded by Jonathan Harris and his brother Chris in April 2019 just outside of Austin, TX. 

After home brewing voraciously for years they’d honed their recipes, harvested their own yeast and set about making their unique mark on craft beer. They focused on fermenting beers with wild Hill Country yeast with a core of the business in farmhouse beers. They also did well with their IPA

Jonathan echos the sentiment we hear a lot on this show: “Imagining recipes and brewing beer is rewarding, running a brewery fucking sucks.”

Hedgehog pivoted repeatedly over the years. They started as distro-only and then opened a public taproom in 2021. They realized that their nano system couldn’t generate enough revenue so they started contract brewing select parts of their lineup off-site. 

Please enjoy this story of Jonathan’s fight to find profitability at his brewery for 4 years before finally hitting the lights and shutting it down. 

Fractal Brewing Project opened in 2019 and closed in 2023 in Huntsville, Alabama.

Maybe it isn't a song as old as time but the story is one we hear alot. There's this money guy who loves beer, befriends a brewer and gives that brewer a percentage of his new brewery.

The money guy overbuilds his vanity project and creates a truly beautiful space with all the toys, the bells and even some whistles. But without the proper guards in place, the business itself flies off the rails and hurtles towards disaster after only a few years.

Our interview with Bradley "Robo" Robison covers a lot of ground. From the struggles of craft beer in Huntsville specifically and Alabama overall to how to parry a punch from one of your bartenders.

So sit back, listen in and take wat you can from the story of Robo and the Fractal Brewing Project.

Steven Henderson is a craft beer rockstar. He goes by the moniker Hendo and he’s one of the best-known personalities in the Australian craft beer industry. Well-loved and well-respected. And, from what I can tell, well-deserved.

He started a contract, or gypsy, brewing brewery called Brewcult. He pushed the boundaries of what people in Australia considered craft beer. He won awards for great beer, expanded distribution and travelled the country living the life of a National beer celebrity. 

And then the whole thing came crashing down, leaving a spectacular hole in the Australian craft beer scene. And, of course, a rough patch in Hendo’s personal life. 

Hey guys, today I have a story for you that’s very special to me. Lost Abbey is a brewery out of San Diego that needs no introduction. Tomme and the team over there have inspired breweries all over the world to push beyond the ordinary and intentionally create new and exciting beers of circumstance. They were a fundamental part of what created my perception of the expectations I wanted my brewery to live up to and I know I’m not alone in that. 

We’ve talked repeatedly on this show about how specialization is dead. Niches get stitches as I’ve started saying. 14% abv beers aged in multiple barrels for multiple years, obscure, even historical styles and yes, even mixed culture sour beers have been shrinking in popularity and, subsequently, profitability. 

The Lost Abbey was one of the pioneers in the American speciality brewery category. So when I heard that they reduced their square footage, equipment and staff I knew that it was a story I needed to dig into and share with y’all. 

Tomme was nice enough to sit with me for two hours, answer my probing questions and share what he’d found out the hard way. There is backstory, pain, business lessons, hope for the future and of course, insights into How NOT To Start A Damn Brewery. 

Reach out to Tomme at Tomme@lostabbey.com

If you stab Michael Amann, he’ll bleed craft beer. He started in this industry as a fan, landed an entry level distribution job, worked his way to sales and then decided to open a brewery. 

Maybe lucky for him that didn’t work out but instead, he went where most brewery owners think all the money in the craft beer industry is hiding. The middle tier. He opened Adena Distributing and set about being the grease that lubed the route from a brewery’s fermenter to the customer’s face. 

Adena distributing was the rare distributor that loved the beer, the brewers and the events that promote it. Of course, Michael is telling his story on this show because profitability seems to pass the middle tier by as much as the supplier tier. 

And that is the story he’s here to tell. 

Reach out to Michael at AmannMichaelc@gmail.com

James Moriarty and the tale of his brewery should be a cautionary one. So many breweries start up with operators that know far less than James did. 

He brewed in multiple facilities for over a decade, went to the Siebel Institute, worked as an engineer assembling and starting up breweries and only then did he leverage that experience to open Urban Brew Labs in Chicago. 

But even that resume wasn’t enough to take his brewery into profitability. 

But James wouldn’t go down without a fight. He pivoted, struggled, brewed, raised money and restructured. Like all of us, he wanted his dream to succeed. 

But even closing his dream in August of 2022 didn’t deter James from a career helping others open their breweries. In some ways it strengthened his understanding of how the business of craft beer works. And doesn’t. Now he, like all of my guests, knows how NOT to start a Damn Brewery. 

And now here’s the story of James Moriarty and Chicago’s late Urban Brew Labs. 

Judd Belstock and his co-founder, Sam Alcaine, started the first chicha and pulque brewery in the US.

They built a beautiful brewery in the heart of one of the beer-y-est cities in America - Denver. The market was large, the customers curious and everywhere you looked, the future for craft beer in 2018 looked as bright as a Rocky Mountain sunrise.

And for a few years, Dos Luces did grow. They expanded their product lines, their distribution and their fanbase. But like the story of many of the breweries I interview and, really, even the ones that pretend otherwise, it wasn't enough to consistently hit profitability.

As you'll hear, specializing in unique and esoteric products brings unique and esoteric challenges with it. After years of standing tall, fighting for market share and struggling to fight off the slings and arrows of the outrageous craft beer business, Judd finally realized it all just wasn't worth it.

Here is the story of the rise and unfortunate fall of Denver's Dos Luces Brewery.

Today I’m bringing you something different. This is the story Ted Mack and his brewery, Peoples Beer in Wisconsin. 

Jason Santamaria  and his partner Chris Doyle started a brewery in Atlanta back in 2014. 

They called it Second Self and they ran it that way. The brewery was a creative expression of the flavors and experiences that shaped their lives. 

What you’ll hear is how as the market grew and evolved, so did Second Self. Pivoting to find new puddles of profitability, struggling against changing consumer preferences and finally ending up as a primarily contract facility. 

I sat down with Jason a week or so before he and Chris closed their doors to hear the whole story. Jason shares how they were inspired to start their brewery, what it was like to build it into a thriving business and the emotions he has presiding over it’s dismantlement. 

This is the story of the late Second Self Beer Company in Atlanta, Georgia. Much love to the co-founder, Jason Santamaria for sharing it and teaching us How NOT To Start A Damn Brewery. 

Eric Addison opened a craft beer oasis West of Fort Worth in Hudson Oaks, TX. Or where he likes to think of as "Michelob Ultra" country.

Pathfinder Brewery opened at the height of the brewery building frenzy in TX. After losing not only his original name but lease space to another brewery he ended up building his own building from scratch. Which may wind up being the best case scenario.

After opening, he expanded outside the brewery with self-distribution, won a U.S. Beer Open gold and struggled to find relevance among of sea of breweries deserted of craft beer fans. Yes, I said struggled to find relevance AFTER winning a gold medal for his beer. 

Not surprisingly, he's got some opinions, thoughts and feelings about his brewery, the Fort Worth marketplace and craft beer overall. I love how introspective and thoughtful Eric is - he’s the kind of guy I think should have been more successful but somehow it just didn’t play out that way. 

Well, I’ll let him tell the story….

Philip Davis isn't some mamby pamby little wanker that just opened up the Brewery-builder's playbook and picked one of the 3 standard brewery models.

He didn't open up in an industrial park, didn't pimp himself out to a group of stuffed shirt investors and he didn't read the report to find out the moisture content of the endosperm of the grains he brewed with. He sure as fuck didn't use Ai to design his recipes or automation to brew his beers. He was a dynamic artist and he had something to say. Maybe something to scream, whisper and insinuate since he considered himself progressive rock.

It took Philip years to dream-up, design and build his farmhouse brewery on 33 acres. But like you'll hear over the next hour and a half, it only took 6 months to learn what the rest of us all know. Specialization is dead. Most of the population doesn't get what we do. Profit isn't in the cards.

Philip did things his way on his terms. He was driven, artistic and creative. He also has a likeable personality and an infectious blend of hubris and self-reflection. I think you'll like Philip, but I know you'll love the story of his brewery and what he learned about how NOT to start a damn brewery.

And now, on with the show.

Few people have been or will ever be as connected in the craft beer industry as Chris Black.

If you haven't met him or heard of him, then you surely caught wind that Downtown Denver had a little beer bar called Falling Rock Taphouse for 24 years.

In 1997 what we think of as the craft beer industry hadn't really begun yet. With only around 800 breweries in the US, opening a beer bar with 69 taps of what we call craft beer was an anomaly. And while it's hard to believe in 2023, opening a craft beer bar in Downtown Denver sounded like a risky and unproven idea.

But it's no exaggeration to say that Falling Rock and Chris Black were an integral part of crafting the shape of our industry. While he had a vibrant and loyal business year-round, Falling Rock was a mandatory stop for everyone visiting the Great American Beer Festival down the street from him every year. Unlike the average beer bar in your town, Falling Rock didn't ride the wave of craft beer, it was the moon that created the tides.

From humble beginnings in Houston to ascending to the top of the craft beer heap, he has seen and heard more about beer than J. Edgar Hoover did about our personal lives. His understanding of the business of craft beer is as wide as it is deep. And yet, in June of 2021, after steady declines and a grim forecast of the future, Chris, his brothers and their loyal fans and suppliers closed the taps on his iconic taphouse for the last time.

This is the story of Chris Black and the rise and fall of what we can only hope was his first craft beer bar - the Falling Rock Taphouse. I hope you enjoy listening as much as I enjoyed spending a couple hours talking with one of the few people I'd call my craft beer hero.

And when you get a guy like Chris to share his time and his insights, you give him a microphone, sit back and interrupt as little as possible. And that's the treat you'll get to experience in the fourth segment. It runs a little longer than I normally do but I couldn't bear to cut any of his opinions and insights.

And now, Chris Black.

Mike Detar is a creative motherfucker. 

Whatever he did in whichever career in which he did it, he was going to throw passion, fire and grit everywhere he went. Like many of us who are slaves to our creativity, he worked with a mix of attention to detail and a ‘grip it and rip it’ philosophy that took him right to the edge of innovation. 

When he opened his brewery in Washington State, he quickly found out that he was going to need every one of his unique talents to fight for profitability. Against rising expenses, city permitting, distribution, the beer drinkers in his local market, liquor laws, his partners. And, of course, a worldwide pandemic. 

For part of his story he lost his money, his brewery, his friend and even his wife.

But now he’s on to the next chapter and while not sure where the path leads, he knows he’s got the experience and tenacity to walk it with confidence. 

Sit back and listen to the story of the rise and fall of Spokane Washington’s Hidden Mother Brewery. 

Adam Cole got the call that so very many people in this industry dream of. 

Some rich asshole picked up the phone and tagged Adam to help him open an overbuilt, beautiful facility with a high-end restaurant. He got to design the brewery, pick out the equipment, set his brew schedule and design his own recipes. 

Best of all, he was given sweat equity for his investment of effort, intelligence and management. He was part of the ownership structure with everything that comes with it. 

The brewery opened, the beer started flowing and customers started drinking. A lot. They were off to a solid start but I have podcast because of what came next. You know, the part where the nightmare started. 

Costs skyrocketed. Labor was a mess. Sales plateaued and then declined. Partners left. The restaurant closed. Then the rich asshole bolted to Florida…….

I’ll let Adam tell it from his perspective but it’s a unique story from the other 40-something I have shared with y’all. 

Here is the story of Adam Cole and NewFangled Brew Works from Harrisburg, PA. 

In 1993 Alan Sprints opened a brewery in Portland, OR. He did his brewery his way making unique and interesting beers unlike what he found on his local shelves. With a culinary background he was, and is, a true artist, contrarian and inspired creator.

New Orleans is a drinking city.

And the brothers Boudreaux -David, Matt and Pat - decided this was the perfect place to open their dream. Well, the dream before the dream at least.

Those of us who pay attention to this podcast know that the future is uncertain for the craft beer industry overall. But the beer people in Abilene, TX are feeling the bubble burst maybe a little bit more than most cities.

In the first two months of 2023 Abilene lost half of it's breweries. One in January and the other one in February. The had both fought to stay afloat for years and even knowing the other was leaving, neither felt the market in Abilene could support them.

I caught up with Jeff from Pappy Slokum and James from Sockdolager Brewing and they agreed to do a collaboration interview.

They both experienced struggle, strain and the eventual collapse of their breweries. They both cited a market that is unsustainable and distributors that didn’t put their needs first. And they both wished the next generation of brewery owners the best - even if they weren’t sure how they’d get it.

Maybe most importantly, both Jeff and James seemed surprisingly at peace with their decisions to permanently lock the brewery doors and saunter away from the businesses they built from the ground up. Even after describing them as their babies.

I believe the story of Abilene’s Craft Collapse of 2023 is a harbinger of what’s to come in the next few years in the US craft beer industry. Listen in and let me know if you agree.

Christina and Jesse don’t make beer.

At least not commercially. They have a palate for bone-dry, flavor-driven ciders and their late project Redwood Coast Cidery was their gift to the hard apple cider drinking world. Or at least to the Bay Area of San Francisco.

These guys opened a Cidery in 2015 because they couldn’t find the styles of cider they liked to drink - which sounds a lot like every home brewer I knew in the early 2000s.

They opened on a responsible budget, grew quickly and expanded when it made sense. They had a plan to be the neighborhood hangout and to serve drinks to their friends, which sounds a lot like most breweries out there.

They made a variety of products inspired by flavor, not profit. Brewed to be enjoyed, not ticked off on Untappd. They were passionate about creating a brand that meant something by crafting products that were true to who they were and how they saw the world.

And, like entirely too many breweries with a similar ethos and whatever that French phrase is for Reason for Being, they were forced to close their doors. In late 2022 they closed both their production facility and their satellite tasting room. Putting a period, or maybe a comma in the story of Redwood Coast Cidery.

I caught up with them about a month after they locked the doors for the last time and they were gracious enough to share their story, the lessons they learned and their advice with each and every one of us.

So listen in, Because you’re about to learn something.

Connect with Redwood:

Jim and Betsy Pence have been around the ‘ol block a few times.

After a love of wine led to a love of craft beer which opened the door to a love of mead, they decided to do what many of you are deciding to do.

They wrote a business plan and set about opening their very own craft meadery in Charlotte, NC. They chased after their dream, bought equipment, started brewing and then closed down almost immediately.

Then they did it two more times.

Jim has joined us to day to share what’s he’s learned by traversing the rocky road of building a business. Lease problems, real estate negotiations, supply chain issues, budget constraints and everything in-between.

Not surprisingly, craft mead faces much of the same bullshit craft beer faces. And after three failed attempts, Jim and Betsy’s story and their certainty that they’ll never do it again are an important lesson for the rest of us.

So listen in and listen up as we share the story of Shepherd’s Meadery.

Most people only have one spouse.

Having more than 2 careers at a time is rare.

The world would be far better off if we’d never had a second Crow movie. Or absolutely anything Keanu Reeves ever did other than John Wick.

There was only one ring in that book.

One goal can win a soccer match.

But somehow when it comes to the production of beer today, we think every brewery should make 7 million mediocre beers. One-offs, seasonals, brand extensions, variety packs and special releases. All this to catch the attention of a mass of asses that don’t care about beer or the traditional values it once held.

Well, Greg Taylor at Canada’s Steam Whistle brewing says only hosers would do that. He says it's all wrong. See, Greg and his co-founders started Canada’s largest craft brewery in the early 2000’s with a single goal: to make one beer and make it really, really well.

And they did for nearly 20 years before switching tracts at the roundabout and going Full US Craft Beer Gonzo. They were making various line extensions and new products until one day Greg runs back in the building, rips out the excess and goes back to their motto of “do one thing really, really well.”

Before I get too far into it, I’m going to shut up and let him explain his story.

https://steamwhistle.ca/

https://beaus.ca/

https://www.newbelgium.com/

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I’d like to introduce you to Bob Sylvester, founder, brewer and all-around badass from South Florida’s Brasserie St. Somewhere.

Bob started brewing back in the early days of this last craft beer explosion. You know, back in 2008 when owning a brewery was still counterculture, hip and a bit radical. He managed to create a unique and interesting lineup of beers that garnered him international acclaim and a loyal fanbase of like-minded craft beer drinkers. He grew from meager beginnings into a beautifully imagined brewery with a separate tasting room and every reason to expect growth and success.

And then, just a few years ago, he watched it all crash down around him. First his tasting room and then his worldwide distribution footprint. After trying to hold on, refocus and refinance the business he finally realized it was beyond saving.

Today we’re going to autopsy Bob’s brewery, Brasserie St. Somewhere, to find out what happened and what you can do differently in your own career.

Check Out:

People like to say that I don't want people to follow their dreams if they're dreaming about mash paddles and mass distribution. While that's not entirely true, I do think the odds are you'll be living on ramen noodles and stolen Netflix. 

But if you ARE gonna start a brewery, the point would be to do it right and make some money. And before you get to that point, you have to figure out just how in the world you are gonna pay for it.

You’ll need hundreds of thousands of dollars, preferably someone else’s dollars.

My guest today is Jason Sleeman from the Craft Beverage Lending division of United Community Bank.

He’s sharp, he's experienced and he's on the front lines of the industry. He knows what’s worked, what hasn’t, what’s coming and what’s dead.

I asked him on the show partly because some you have said that I’m mostly negative. First of all, get over it - this is serious business and my entire goal is to show you the real and honest side of the industry that no one else seems willing to share. But Jason has a perspective centered around how to make a brewery happen, make it profitable and make it valuable. What you're about to hear him share with us over the next couple hours is invaluable. It also happens to be positive so there, are you happy now?

Craft Beverage Lending

Eddie Chimi, or Anderson, or whatever he's calling himself these days, is a craft beer industry veteran.

He’s damn near an expert on getting beer from the manufacturer to the asshole waiting in line to buy a can of it.

You know that I’m always on the lookout for people who’ve been around the craft beer block and lived to tell about it. And I’m fascinated to have conversations with people who are willing to disagree with me. Eddie fits both of those perfectly.

He worked at Goose Island before and after the sale that changed the world. He’s been a brewery rep for both large and small players. He narrowly escaped the noose of opening his own money sinkhole-I mean brewery. He’s worked at multiple distributors, including one that went out of business. He saw the inside of Shelton Brothers during the collapse. And he managed to get the fuck out of the industry with minimal mental health issues.

And through it all, he’s managed to stay just a swell fucking guy. His insights and experience shed light, maybe throw a little shade and educate and inform anyone considering a path down craft beer lane.

Earthlings, please prepare yourself for my interview with Eddie Anderson.

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You may not have heard of Kevin Abbott. But you’re not likely to forget him.

He’s a guy who’s brewed at three different breweries.

Today’s guest got bitten by the brewery bug in 2012. Back when there were less than 2500 breweries nationwide and you could still convince yourself that there was room for one more.

Like many of us he thought, start small, build it up slowly and grow incrementally over time. Invest in growth, recapitalize and add market share along the way to success.

But his multiple award-winning brewery got swallowed first by the massive growth of his massive brewery neighbors and then by an oversaturated industry overall.

He made great beers, great friends and left a lasting impact on the San Diego craft beer scene.

Join us as we discuss what it’s like to build a dream and watch it metamorphosize into a nightmare before your eyes.

If you’ve been paying attention over my last 20-whatever episodes you know that craft beer is an ugly place to try to make any money.

You do not go into beer to get rich. Or even to pay your light bill.

Well, here’s a news flash I bet you didn’t see coming:

HOMEBREW SHOPS AREN’T MAKING ANY, EITHER.

For today’s episode I sat down with Scott Birdwell to discuss what it’s like to own a homebrew shop for over 40 years and then watch it slowly die. This cat was selling homebrew equipment back when it was illegal.

He understood the business, his customers and the industry. But even he wasn’t ready for the disaster the industry experienced over the last 5 years.

We talk about leases, about beer and about business. I learned that the homebrew industry also struggled because of the overwhelming proliferation of breweries in America. Who knew that going from 1500 breweries in 2011 to 9000 in 2022 would create a problem?

I did, and I’m on a mission to share that story with everyone who’ll listen and 5 guys who won’t.

So sit back, crack a beer and listen to Scott’s story and the story of DeFalco’s Homebrew shop. You might just learn something.

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Dan Garrison is the founder and proprietor of TX’s first legal bourbon distillery, Garrison Brothers in Hye, TX. I wanted to interview Dan because I knew that there were lessons we could learn from how spirits goes to market. I was positive that there were overlaps in the cash flow model for aging bourbon vs fermenting beer. I knew that he had overcome massive obstacles on the path to building his nationwide brand. And I was certain that understanding his business would make us better in ours. What I didn’t know was that he was still chasing profitability after 17 years. That some of those struggles he overcame almost killed his small but high-end bourbon distillery. And I was surprised to hear him predict a saturation point similar to what the beer industry is experiencing now. Dan and I recorded this episode in the sunshine on the grounds of Garrison Brothers. I wasn’t the only one enjoying the TX bourbon that day so you’ll hear people talking, dogs barking and even a small plane circling overhead. I hope that helps you imagine you’re sitting at the table with us, enjoying the company and the bourbon. Dan was a gracious host. He was open with his story, freely discussing his successes and failures in ways few can manage. I was struck by his passion and inspired by his poetic description of the role of bourbon in a fulfilled life. I truly hope you enjoy listening as much as I enjoyed recording this episode of the podcast. 

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What happens when a successful craft beer blogger, author and educator decides to dip her toe in the business side of craft beer?

Does the SBA switch horses mid-stream?

Does she get dizzy navigating the logistics of Atlanta’s city, county and local government permitting processes?

Does a worldwide pandemic and a heartless landlord throw rocks at her like a sweaty bully on the playground?

Jen Price is one of those people that makes this industry fun. She cares. She inspires. She reminds us not to take the beer more seriously than the fellowship around it. She’s brought countless people into the industry and then formed bonds of community between them. She embodies what craft beer originally claimed to be.

But when Jen decided to follow her dreams and open a brick and mortar taproom/bottleshop craft beer forgot to show her the same love she’s spent years showing it. He struggled, she failed and she learned. Learned what she wanted to do next and is throwing all her considerable energy into that.

Throw on your headphones and take a listen to the story of Jen Price and the Atlanta Beer Boutique.

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Today’s craft beer badass is Joe at Hanging Hills brewing in Connecticut. He’s a guy that’s been run through the ringer. He’s lost a best friend to craft beer. He lost money. He was marked for pain and suffering by an internet douchebag. He’s fought and bled to build his business, only to watch it cough and die in his arms.

But through all that, Joe Ploof is still a believer. He still wants to make beer and sell it to people. He scraped his shit together and 8 months after his closure he reopened as a contract brewery. He shares how he restructured his distribution footprint, reworked his recipes and even hired one of those fancy social media people.

In this episode he shares why he did it and why he believes he’s on the pathway to purpose in his life. It’s too early to tell if he’ll be more or less profitable than the tired old brick and mortar brewery model.

But by the end of my time with Joe I found myself wanting to believe. He’s a great guy who makes great beer and I appreciate the Hell out of everything he shared with us. Our yourself a beer and let’s get to it.

Today my friends and foes, we sit down with Adam Metcalf, General Manager and all-around cool dude at Aces and Ales in Las Vegas, Nevada.

Aces represents the trail-blazing craft beer bar. You know what I’m talking about because we all have an example of one near us. In virtually every market over the last decade, someone has come on the scene with a unique take on selling beer to people. They develop relationships with distributors, offer the most interesting and dynamically rotating craft beer selection in town and add personality to the process of boozing it up.

Selling craft beer at a craft beer bar isn’t unique.

But what is unique is to grow from one location to two, and then two locations to a third, complete with a brand-new brewery. Aces and Ales has crafted a solid business in a shaky industry.

And I wanted to sit with Adam in hopes that you and I might find out why. He was terrifically open and honest and by the end, I realized there was something special going on at Aces. Somehow years in this industry hadn’t beaten them down. I was struck by the fact that he was still passionate, still looking to the future and somehow still fucking happy about it.

There’s a lot to take away from this interview and for your sake, I hope to take it all. Cheers and listen in.

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Our guest today is Lauren Kendzierski of the late Black Rabbit Farm Brewery in Southwick, MA.

She did beer the way I did. Only more authentic and actually on a farm. Sadly, we can’t taste her beer now that her brewery has closed but we can hear the story and feel the passion that went into every bottle.

And I hope that both of those come through in this interview. She tells her story from inspiration to construction all the way to distribution and final dissolution. There’s a lot in there and I’m eternally grateful that she took the time to share it.

She knows her shit. She’s an artist. She even understands business. But as we’ll hear over the next couple of hours, it wasn’t enough to keep her farmhouse brewery alive.

You’ll notice I’m a little annoyed and maybe a little sad during parts of this interview. Lauren and her team got to do what I wanted to do. My long-term plan was to get back to the land and make beer the way they did. I’m well-aware now that it wouldn’t have changed the outcome of story, except maybe to add a few hundred thousand more to the amount of money I lost. But imagining how those days were spent still makes me nostalgic about it.

I hope you enjoy this episode and Lauren’s brewery’s story as much as I enjoyed recording it for you. Cheers and listen in.

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Our guest today is Dean Brundage of New Republic Brewing Company. 

Like any good drama, this is a story of love, hope, betrayal and complete annihilation. He and his business partner started their brewery together with stars in their eyes back in 2010. Only a few years later their disagreements turned into Dean being forced out of the company he helped found, create and build. New Republic has always had a cult following here in TX and to this day they have a legion of loyal fans. These guys produced a selection of straightforward beer styles with recognizable packaging that should have had a brighter future. I’m fond of saying that I don’t interview assholes that make shitty beer in ugly packaging and New Republic is a perfect fit for this podcast. Well, at least the partner I interviewed anyways…… 

We recorded this episode at The 101 in Bryan/College Station and owner Jeremy joined us in drinking, commenting and even a little bit in lamenting the direction this industry we all love is headed. I do want to apologize for some of the audio. There were some fans blowing and some cars passing by. I’ve cleaned it up substantially but there are some noises inherent with on-site interviews. I think loosening Dean’s lips with a steady flow of beer and the addition of Jeremy’s insights was worth the little bumps in the audio. I hope you agree. Dean also references how to take a deeper dive into the emotions and truth of exactly how he got ousted from the brewery he helped imagine into existence. His wife Adrienne had some things to say and I love it.