Making Creativity Pay

“It feels like people do have to almost have a second career to support themselves. And it's not clear where the kind of goals or the safe spot is anymore where you can just fully concentrate on that thing”

Rachael Healy is an award winning journalist and the current British Journalism Awards Journalist of the year for Arts and Entertainment.

Rachael is a freelance journalist working predominantly with The Guardian and the i newspapers and we talk about getting articles commissioned, from show reviews through to in-depth investigative reporting.

We also discuss the star rating systems of reviews, building a personal brand as well as her repeated focus in her writing on the financial impact of being an artist including the experience of performers at the fringe

Rachael Links

“...people who go into medicine, often it's not so much just pure science people, it's people who've got maybe a bit more of a broader interest range than your standard person who just wants to be a scientist or a mathematician or something like that. So I think often you find people going into it who've got a bit of a second interest, even at the point of sort of choosing what career they're going into.”

This episode is with Comedian Matt Hutchinson we talk about his experiences of the 2023 Edinburgh Fringe with his show ‘Hostile’ from promoting the show on Social Media and Flyering through to working with PR and Production companies.

We also discuss how being a comedian interacts with his day job as a Doctor and how he somehow manages to combine all this with studying for a research PhD as well as currently being in the middle of writing a book based on his experiences as a Doctor.

Matt Links

Ahead of the Glasgow comedy festival which runs from the 13th to the 31st March I spoke to comedians Jay Lafferty and Kathleen Hughes two Scottish comedians who are performing at the festival. 

We talk about Kathleen’s experiences as a relatively newer comedian who after a two week run last year is currently preparing for her first full Edinburgh Fringe run in 2024.

We also discuss Jay’s experiences as a full time comedian, going on a nationwide tour with her show ‘Bahookie’ and how the Scottish comedy has changed and the supportive nature within the scene.

See Jay and Kathleen Live

Jay Lafferty - Bahookie at Glasgow Comedy Festival (29th March):

“Finding out information about comedy, if you don't already know what you're looking for can be ridiculously overwhelming”

This episode I spoke to Zoë Paskett founder of LMAOnaise a website, newsletter and soon to be newspaper that covers some of the less mainstream areas of comedy.

The ethos of this podcast has always been that even if your art may not be driven by money, without the money it’s difficult to keep creating the art and so marketing matters and my chat with Zoë was a great example of this, creating a print version of something when even web journalism is collapsing is an ambitious aim. 

We discuss Zoë’s plans for the newspaper and her work setting up and promoting the crowdfunder along with her experiences as a journalist for publications such as the London Evening Standard and from running her weekly newsletter for the last three years as well as the value of curation when it comes to comedy.

LINKS

Crowdfunder for Newspaper

"With the advent of social media and Myspace as was, we sort of got a bit of a following and we've been growing our audience ever since"

This episode is with Sheldon Southworth AKA Dickie Ticker from the band The Lancashire Hotpots.

The band's motto is “21st Century Folk for 21st Century folk” and have released albums including Never Mind the Hotpots and Achtung Gravy and have performed at festivals such as Glastonbury and Kendall Calling as well as touring the country and are currently on their Bisto Inferno tour.  

We talk about the challenges facing a live band in the current economic climate, promoting band both online and the various tools and techniques involved in selling tickets to live shows.

LINKS

“It’s a romantic comedy with added sexy cowboys”

Eleanor Birdsall-Smith is producer of the sell-out Edinburgh Fringe show ‘Cowboys and Lesbians’ which is about to embark on a 3 week run at the Park Theatre in London and The Wardrobe Theatre in Bristol.

We talk about her background in TV, her Fringe experiences including the importance of reviews and the tactics of flyering as well as the impact of a name change to the show.

LINKS

Park Theatre London (Feb 21st - Mar 9th)

"Even though they took my songs, I still felt like a failure, and I did for the largest part of the last 10, 15 years. I felt like I failed at music"

Alexis talks about her experiences as a singer/songwriter, comedian and actress, about going viral on TikTok and her resurgence as a pop star 20 years on.

We talk about having songs she’s written being recorded by Kylie Minogue and Rachel Stevens, the impact being dropped by her record label had on her and her determination to make the most of the opportunity the second time around.

We also discuss Social Media, online promotion and the psychological impact chasing clicks has on your state of mind.

LINKS

Kat Molesworth who as well well as having a huge amount of experience in digital marketing is event producer at Content is Queen who are running the International Women’s Podcast Festival which is taking place in London in October.

We talk about traditional offline promotion for podcasts, what makes engaging social content to drive activity to your podcast as well as discussing the festival and Kat’s aims for it in more detail.

There’s a load of other practical bits of advice from Kat throughout the episode including examples of podcasts that do things particularly well in a certain aspect of podcasting.

Kat

"I think life is bigger than AI. I don't think AI is bigger than life. That may be the most naïve thing anyone has ever said on the subject. We'll see."

Andy Stanton is an author best known for his ‘Mr Gum’ Children’s books and has written a book called Benny the Blue Whale: A Descent into Story, Language and the Madness of ChatGPT which is available in print and also as an audiobook with ChatGPT voiced by Nish Kumar. 

As you’ll hear from our talk this doesn’t mean he’s typed a simple prompt and then printed the results, rather it’s a fascinating look at language and a great lesson on what makes good writing by considering what ChatGPT can’t do as well as looking at what it can manage.

As well as the book, we discuss Andy’s long running podcast Ask The Nincompoops as well as not reading your reviews and the difficulties of promotion in a social media age.

LINKS

“If you're really Into making it, into doing it, the worst thing in life is getting to 85 and not having tried to do the things that you want to do or not having been your best self”

Dec Munro is a comedy director and producer and co-founder of the Bill Murray comedy club.

Dec has directed loads of Edinburgh Fringe shows for performers such as Stuart Goldsmith, Mawaan Rizwan, Angela Barnes, Sofie Hagen and many more.

We discuss the role of a director in a show, about drawing out ideas and getting the best from an artist and whether taking a show to Edinburgh is right for everyone as well as moving from the Fringe to TV and if the TV industry does enough to nurture scripted comedy.

We talk about The Bill Murray and Angel Comedy Club, how that came about, the London comedy scene, the embarrassment of riches London comedy goers have and how the ‘So what do you do for a living’ clips on social media may impact what people expect from a comedy show.

Dec also runs beginner stand-up comedy courses both to individuals and in a corporate setting and we discuss how this attracts both those who want to make a go of being a comedian and those that realise that the skills of a comedian are transferable to their day job.

"I was in hospital listening to this country album, going, ah, life's too short for me to be listening to country music every other week"

On this episode is comedian and podcaster Liam Withnail.

Off the back of a sell-out run of his show 'Chronic Boom' at the Edinburgh Fringe. I talk to Liam about his experiences at the Festival in August, what he did to promote the show, the challenges he faced putting the show together and how he’s now taking it nationwide with a tour starting March 2024.

We also discuss his podcast ‘Enjoy an Album’ which he co-hosts with fellow comedian Christopher Macarthur-Boyd which itself has been a live show at Edinburgh.  We talk about how they’ve introduced video and developed the podcast with the financial help of Patreon supporters.

Links

“It used to be you'd focus on one thing and you'd focus to do it to the best of your degree, but I think now everyone has to be really multidisciplinary” - This episode's guest Elf Lyons who has a broad range of talents that we discuss in the podcast.  

We talk about her Edinburgh show this year ‘Heist’ with Duffy and how audience response turned a two week run into a whole month and how it impacted her approach to being in Edinburgh compared to previous years and her experience this year directing a number of shows by fellow artists at the Fringe.

Elf’s previous Fringe show ‘Raven’ is playing for 2 nights on 27th/28th October at Soho Theatre in London and we talk about the balance of putting shows on yourself versus working with promoters/theatre companies to remove some of the stress of promoting and financial risk and balancing that with a lower return.

Elf also has a YouTube special - “Elf Lyons Talks Dirty” and we discuss the Work In Progress process and development aspects of Stand Up comedy and finding the right platform for you whether that’s Live, TikTok, Twitch or any other medium.

Elf also has a podcast called ‘Elfonomics’ that she runs with her father -  Economist Gerard Lyons taking a look at a range of Economic questions such as the benefits of an artist having an OnlyFans account or what lessons artists can take from footballers.

Links

This episode is the second of a two-parter with Theatre Correspondent Fergus Morgan, the previous episode discusses Fergus' experience as a freelance Theatre Correspondent for titles such as The Scotsman and The Stage, as well as appearing on Radio 4 and in publications across Europe.

In this episode we discuss the Edinburgh Fringe, the role a reviewer plays in a show getting noticed and the balance for performers between getting their work seen and balancing the financial and mental pressures of a month at the Fringe.

You can find Fergus at:

This episode is the first of a two-parter with Theatre Correspondent Fergus Morgan.

In this episode we discuss Fergus' experience as a freelance Theatre Correspondent for titles such as The Scotsman and The Stage, as well as appearing on Radio 4 and in publications across Europe.

We also discuss Fergus' own Newsletter The Crush Bar, the differences of being your own boss as a Newsletter producer compared for writing for others as well the current state and future direction of journalism.

The second part of my chat with Fergus will be out on 30th September and will discuss the Edinburgh Fringe, the role a reviewer plays in a show getting noticed and the balance for performers between getting their work seen and balancing the financial and mental pressures of a month at the Fringe.

You can find Fergus at:

"Flyering is like a one-on-one direct intense experience of rejection, constant little micro bits of rejection and that can really suck"

This episode is with Laura Thurlow whose show "A Preoccupation with Romantic Love" is on between 19-27th August as part of the Free Fringe.

She discusses flyering, the importance of the Free Fringe, the impact of Social Media and lots more.

Details:

"Always have your flyers on you...you gotta be flyering all the time here" - Latest Fringe episode is with Lisa Verlo talking about her show Hollywoodn't which details her experiences of Hollywood in the 80s.

We talk about flyering, Social Media and impact of time of day of her show drives the whole flow of a day when you're at Edinburgh.

Any Digital Marketing or promotion can be incredibly cost-effective or a time sink depending on how well you do it.  In this episode I talk to Charlotte and Ellie of Award-Winning Digital Marketing Agency Wagada Digital about how individuals and businesses can make the most of digital Marketing.

Areas we cover include:

Paid vs. Organic Social Media

Picking the right Social Media to match both your personality and where you potential fans/customers are

Digital PR

SEO

AI and developments in Marketing and Design

Wagada’s own ‘ChinWag’ Podcast which discusses in more detail a lot of the areas we cover.

Finally the Fringe can start - The Champ is in Town!

This episode was with Damien St John half of the Sports Podcast Awards 2023 Nominated Podcast - Wrestling with The Champ

We talk about moving from an audio podcast to real life performances, comedy writing and developing characters as well as how to do a good bucket speech at the Free Fringe and the advantage of being able to flyer in character.

The show is at 17:00 on 5th-11th August at Burrito ‘n’ Shake

Eleanor Birdsall-Smith is our latest guest on the podcast. She is the Producer of ‘Cowboys and Lesbians’ which is on at the Pleasance 10 Dome from 2-27th August.

We talk about venue selection, coming to the Fringe for the first time, having a more considered flyering approach and the importance of social media in trying to promote the play to a young audience.

Tickets:

“At no point in the last six months have I been relaxed. At no point has there been a lull where I haven't thought, oh, I should be doing something”.

This episode we hear from Mikey Fleming co-writer of ‘Best Man’, the focus on getting things right, an aversion to flyering and lots more and we also hear from the cast of Attendants on their thoughts about the Fringe.

Lisa's show 'Too Big for Her Britches' is on now at the Edinburgh Fringe: "A hilarious and heart-breaking dark comedy driven by 20 characters and 11 original songs, in which the heroine, Luna, endeavours to disentangle herself from bad decisions and an overbearing, narcissistic mother." We spoke about what she's looking forward to about performing at the Fringe and thoughts around promoting and marketing the show from flyering to social media.

“It’s easy to drop your guard in the ethical soup that is the Fringe” - 

In this episode we talk to Miriam Attwood of Storytelling PR.

Storytelling PR team provide publicity, consultancy and advocacy for culture and activism related artists.

We talk about what having an activism and representation focused PR company means, Miriam’s extensive experience of the Edinburgh Fringe including running PR for Summerhall one of the venues at Edinburgh, and some thoughts on what those without PR representation can do to get themselves noticed. 

Links:

Twitter

3 Years in the making: Bibi Lucille and Anastasia Bunce about the show Meat Cute that’s playing at the Edinburgh Fringe this August.

We talk about the development to get to this stage, some dubious methods of marketing the show and plans for promotion over the month.

We talk flyers, Instagram, Daily promotion and lots more.

Links:

"Not everyone leaves London in August" - Although there's lots of noise made about the Edinburgh Fringe, London also has a major festival of its own with over 300 different acts performing from 31st July to the 27th August in Camden and beyond.

In this episode we’ll be speaking to Zena and Michelle founders of the Camden Fringe. We talk about how the Camden Fringe came about, how it differs to the Edinburgh Fringe and have loads of advice for anyone looking to put on a show at a festival.

We’ll also be talking about their Camden Fringe podcast which is a great resource where they speak to performers and others in the industry about all areas from Marketing, PR and tips on writing a show.

Links

Ahead of Podcast Show London on 24th/25th May, we’re running a series of short daily podcasts with a variety of people in the podcast industry.

This episode is with Becky Lamb-Pritchard - Head of Marketing at Distorted

We talk about what Becky’s looking forward to most at the Podcast Show, the rise of video podcasting, its importance in podcast discovery and discuss how Distorted’s AI created podcast ‘Synthetic Stories’ was put together and what it could mean for content creation.

Ahead of Podcast Show London on 24th/25th May, we’re running a series of short daily podcasts with a variety of people in the podcast industry.

This episode is with Mark Asquith - Co-Founder of Podcast Hosting service Captivate

We talk about what he’s looking forward to most at the Podcast Show, why he sees Anchor (now Spotify for Podcasters) as not necessarily a bad thing for the podcast industry and about his talk at the Podcast Show on how branding can help with the growth of your podcast.

Ahead of Podcast Show London on 24th/25th May, we’re running a series of short daily podcasts with a variety of people in the podcast industry.

Today’s episode is with Megan Hayward - Podcast Producer at editaudio

We talk about what encouraged Megan to pursue a career in podcasting, her work as a podcast producer and how she finds working as part of a team that’s based on both sides of the Atlantic.

We also discuss the impact of AI in podcast production and what talks she’s looking forward to seeing at the Podcast Show.

This episode is with Comedy producer Gina Lyons - this was a great chat encompassing the varied aspects of Gina’s career to date, from getting in to the industry via a reality TV show (Get Me A Producer), working with a huge range of comedians on live shows including Kate Barron and Adam Rowe and scripted series across all areas from Network TV to Online (In My Skin/Breeders/Dreaming Whilst Black).

We talk about working with writers developing ideas at various stages of the process from creation to getting the final version on screen, advice for anyone who wants to work in scripted comedy.

This episode is with Sean Adams, Founder of Music Website and Label Drowned in Sound. We talk about the relaunch of Drowned in Sound as a music label, what a label can offer an artist that they wouldn’t get with a DIY approach, the importance of Social Media in promoting artists and matching the right channels for the artist and their audience.

We also talk about the newly launched Drowned In Sound podcast where Sean talks to artists and experts in a range of fields from TikTok to AI and lots more from his extensive experience in the Music Industry.

Our guest is Dr Hayleigh Bosher - Senior Lecturer in Intellectual Property Law at Brunel University.

We discuss how musicians can educate themselves around copyright and getting paid when their music is used, the #BrokenRecord campaign for better pay for performers and composers, along with some examples of copyright such as Louis Theroux and Jiggle Jiggle and David Guetta creating an AI Eminem.

We also talk about her podcast 'Whose Song is it Anyway' the first two seasons which were co-hosted with Jules O’Riordan (Entertainment Lawyer and artist known as Judge Jules) which has included guests such as Imogen Heap, Crispin Hunt and Kevin Brennan MP talk about a wide range of music related areas such as performers rights, sampling, working with other artists, blockchain in music and lots more. 

In this episode I speak to 3 performers about their experiences at the 2022 Edinburgh Fringe.

We discuss a wide range of areas around performing at the Fringe such as:

• Length of run - is doing the whole month some heroic effort that is in itself part of the attraction of doing a run in Edinburgh
• Pricing - Pay what you want vs. ticketed, does having a minimum price set by the venue
• Promotion - Where do Twitter/TikTok fit in compared to traditional flyering and building an audience through word of mouth
• The mental impact of doing the same show in the same place for a month and constantly monitoring ticket sales
• The change in the Fringe over time and if the rising costs of putting on a show will discourage them from a 2023 appearance

My Guests are:

In this episode Cerys Bradley talks about their show 'Sportsperson' which is on daily at the Edinburgh Fringe during August.  Cerys talks about selecting a venue, pricing and large amounts of flyering as well as recommend shows to see at the Fringe. 

The Edinburgh Fringe is the perfect example of where Art and Commerce mix, it's a reflection of real life from the idealists who just want to make things better to those who see it as a great opportunity to make a few quid (usually everyone apart from the performers themselves).

Our guest on this episode is Stu Goldsmith, host of the Comedian's Comedian podcast.  Stu has been going to the Fringe for the last 28 years, even when it was cancelled during the pandemic!

I talk to Stu about his experiences at the Fringe, putting a work in progress together and the challenges of putting bums on seats when there are thousands of other acts in the same city.

Making creativity pay is a podcast discussing how those in creative industries look to monetise their work, not to sell out their craft but to be able to afford to keep going.

In this episode I spoke to Comedian and Podcaster Stuart Goldsmith.  We discuss how he got started in podcasting almost a decade ago, his thoughts on different business models such as donations, subscriptions and advertisements as well as being a 'solopreneur' and how his comedy and podcast selves interact.