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The Dauntless Grace Exchange

The Dauntless Grace Exchange

By Dauntless Grace

Each week on the Dauntless Grace Exchange podcast, Deedra Mager and Megan Hall continue their journey towards becoming wholly integrated. As they grow and learn, they bring tools like the Enneagram and Internal Family Systems therapy model to encourage you in your mental and emotional health. Ultimately, it’s all about connection: connecting to others, connecting to God, and connecting back to yourself.
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115: Constellation of an Enneagram One with Randi McSpadden

The Dauntless Grace ExchangeMar 01, 2023

00:00
38:03
163: Healing After the Cult with Anna LeBaron

163: Healing After the Cult with Anna LeBaron

Author and Hulu documentary subject Anna LeBaron joins Deedra and Megan to share about her life post-cult. Anna's escape at 13 led her on a lifelong healing journey from the trauma she endured, and she opens up about the hardships and blessings of walking it.

Also, don't miss the bonus interview in the DG Community where she answers the question, "What's been left unsaid?" and her tearful response.

Survivor of a violent, polygamist cult; Author of The Polygamist's Daughter: A Memoir (Tyndale, 2017); subject of the recently released 5-episode Hulu documentary called, "Daughters of the Cult." Empty nester + Mother of five grown children and Yaya to one grandchild. Currently pursuing a Masters Degree in Christian Spiritual Formation and Leadership through Friends University (graduation is soon! May 2024); then immediately jumping into a Doctor of Ministry in Formation and Soul Care, also at Friends. She is 55 years old, and only 29 years into her healing journey. Studying the Enneagram helped her immensely (I'm a 2w3--embracing the 1 wing as needed) and she loves Internal Family Systems therapy most of all. She loves helping those who have experienced any kind of childhood developmental trauma or abuse, but especially any kind of religious trauma or spiritual abuse.

You can find Anna on all social platforms @annaklebaron

Mar 28, 202436:13
162: Strong Like Water with Aundi Kolber

162: Strong Like Water with Aundi Kolber

Author and therapist Aundi Kolber joins Deedra and Megan today for a beautiful and compassionate conversation about healing from trauma. Aundi's new book, Strong Like Water Guided Journey, is available for pre-order and releases March 26!

You can connect further with Aundi on Instagram, and don't forget that our DG Community members can see a bonus interview where Aundi answers the question, "What's been left unsaid?"

Aundi Kolber is a licensed professional counselor (MA, LPC) and the best selling author of the critically acclaimed "Try Softer” and her newest book "Strong like Water." She has received additional training in her specialization of trauma- and body-centered therapies and is passionate about the integration of faith and psychology. Aundi has appeared on Good Morning America, regularly speaks at national events, and is a frequent guest on podcasts such as The Lazy Genius, Typology, and The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill. As a survivor of trauma, Aundi brings hard-won knowledge about the work of change, the power of redemption, and the beauty of experiencing God with us in our pain.

Mar 21, 202438:07
161: Vulnerability in Leadership with Jo Saxton

161: Vulnerability in Leadership with Jo Saxton

Enneagram Eight Jo Saxton joins the conversation to discuss the importance of vulnerability in leadership. Listen as she drops some amazing wisdom about what it looks like to lead from wholeness and integrity.

Plus, for our Patreon subscribers, don't miss the bonus interview where Jo answers the question, "What's been left unsaid?"

Jo Saxton is a speaker, podcaster, and author. She is the founder of the Ezer Collective, an initiative dedicated to investing in women leaders around the world, equipping them to own their voice, and boldly step into their calling. She currently serves as the Executive Director of The 25 (a leadership development initiative) at Bethel University.

Born to Nigerian parents and raised in London,England,Jo now lives in Minneapolis with her husband and two daughters. She loves everyday stuff like good music, good food, and good friends.

You can find her on Facebook and on Instagram/Threads @josaxton.

Mar 14, 202438:24
160: Launching the Dauntless Grace Community!
Mar 07, 202416:51
159: Focus of Attention pt. 2

159: Focus of Attention pt. 2

Deedra and Megan finish up the conversation from last week on the focus of attention for types Five through Nine, along with some extra stories about Fours (per usual) and how the focuses relate to the passions of the enneagram types.

Feb 29, 202438:47
158: Focus of Attention, pt. 1

158: Focus of Attention, pt. 1

Megan and Deedra decide to take it back to some enneagram basics: the focus of attention for each type.

If you're new to the enneagram or still trying to determine which number you are, understanding the focus of attention will go a long way in identifying or confirming yours!

Feb 22, 202431:51
157: Our Annual Galentine's Day Episode

157: Our Annual Galentine's Day Episode

Yes, we are two days late to drop a Galentine's Day episode. BUT, I think you'll find the episode is worth it.

We spend a lot of time laughing, answering enneagram questions for each other, and we even dive into some enneagram and relationship dynamics you don't want to miss!

Feb 15, 202428:57
156: The Defense Mechanisms of Each Enneagram Type
Feb 07, 202445:37
155: Trifold Connection
Feb 01, 202424:49
154: Recognizing our parts (& how Megan's post went viral)

154: Recognizing our parts (& how Megan's post went viral)

This week, Megan's Facebook post about Taylor Swift went viral, and it brought out a lot of parts in others and in herself.

Deedra and Megan use that to discuss:

  • Noticing what parts of ourselves are present
  • Getting distance to let our Self drive the bus
  • Using our words with integrity and kindness
  • How social media can be a connector or a divider
Jan 24, 202428:28
153: For the Hope of It All

153: For the Hope of It All

Megan and Deedra combine their two heroes, Taylor Swift and Dr. Brené Brown, into one epic conversation about hope, overwhelm, vulnerability, and connection.

Jan 17, 202427:01
152: More Words of the Year for 2024

152: More Words of the Year for 2024

Besties of the podcast, Meg and Kami, join today's episode to talk about their own words of the year: what they chose for 2023 and how it manifested, and what they're focusing on moving into 2024. Plus, it's always lots of laughs when these four are together!

Jan 10, 202435:47
151: Words of the Year for 2024

151: Words of the Year for 2024

The annual words of the year episode is back! Deedra and Megan discuss how their 2023 words finished, and they share their new words for 2024.

What is your word for 2024? Share it with us!

Jan 01, 202430:53
150 | Hope & Expectation

150 | Hope & Expectation

The both/and we experienced in 2021 stays true today: the world is full of joy and sorrow.

The Christmas season especially magnifies it all: it's a season of awe, wonder, hope, and expectations, but it also holds the tension of exposing sadness, grief, longing, and loneliness. Whatever your circumstances are this season, there is an Emmanuel, God with us, who brings us a hope to carry us through the unmet expectations.

Dec 20, 202318:27
149: Divine Appointments (and a special travel recap!)

149: Divine Appointments (and a special travel recap!)

After a whirlwind tour of Washington DC, New York City, and Boston, Megan and Deedra are back to share how God brings the right people along our paths. Whether it's meeting new friends in person for the first time or ministering to strangers in restaurants, we are wired for connection with others.


Plus, they share exciting news about a former special guest of the podcast!

Dec 13, 202325:45
148: Encountering Jesus
Nov 29, 202334:51
147: Finding Beauty in the Mundane

147: Finding Beauty in the Mundane

Tomorrow is Thanksgiving, so Deedra and Megan share how they've been giving thanks in 2023. Gratitude isn't about ignoring the painful parts of life; it's about finding beauty even in the midst of the mundane or sorrowful parts. Each of them shares about their personal eucharisteo list and how it's helped them find joy in new places.

Nov 22, 202330:14
146: Cultivating a Space for Gathering
Nov 16, 202332:07
145: Our Third Podcastiversary!
Nov 08, 202331:31
144: Teens and Emotional Intelligence with Jorie Hall

144: Teens and Emotional Intelligence with Jorie Hall

Megan's daughter Jorie joins Deedra and Megan to discuss the pandemic's impact on this generation's teens. Jorie, a young teen herself, tells her own journey through the pandemic during middle school, discovering she is an enneagram Nine, and what navigating relationships with emotional intelligence is like in high school.

Jorie Hall is a 15-year-old sophomore from the greater St. Louis area. She is involved in drama, speech, literature, and her new school newspaper. She was recently accepted into the National Honor Society.

Oct 25, 202335:37
143: Social Emotional Learning by Enneagram Type

143: Social Emotional Learning by Enneagram Type

What is social emotional learning, and why is it so important? Deedra and Megan break down why they're so invested in this topic. Then they go through each enneagram number and point out natural strengths and weaknesses of each type in regards to social emotional learning.

Oct 18, 202336:20
142: The Ballot and the Bible with Kaitlyn Schiess

142: The Ballot and the Bible with Kaitlyn Schiess

Another conversation with one of our favorite guests! Kaitlyn Schiess joined us to discuss her new book, The Ballot and the Bible. We also continue the conversation about moving towards marginalized communities and what we can do as we seek to follow Christ in the tricky culture where we live.

Kaitlyn Schiess is an author, speaker, and perpetual theology student. She is the author of The Ballot and the Bible: How Scripture has been Used and Abused in American Politics and Where We Go from Here (Brazos, 2023) and The Liturgy of Politics: Spiritual Formation for the Sake of Our Neighbor (IVP, 2020). Her writing has appeared at Christianity Today, The New York Times, Christ and Pop Culture, RELEVANT, and Sojourner. She has a ThM in systematic theology from Dallas Theological Seminary and is currently a doctoral student in political theology at Duke Divinity School. She lives in Durham, North Carolina.

Oct 11, 202339:40
141: Altogether Us with Jenna Riemersma
Oct 04, 202342:07
140: Trauma and Polyvagal Theory with Tracy Busse
Sep 27, 202335:28
139: Post-Traumatic Growth with Nicki Schoonover

139: Post-Traumatic Growth with Nicki Schoonover

Join the conversation today with our guest, Nicki Schoonover, Licensed Master Social Worker and current Director of Field Education for Herzing University Master of Social Work Program. She reminds us that every behavior is trying to communicate something. She offers some tips on how to practice self care to avoid secondary traumatic stress when we work with others who are presenting with trauma responses. Nicki also offers great hope as she explains that, while understanding trauma and its impact is very important, it's also equally important to remember that there is hope! She offers some great definitions of resiliency and post-traumatic growth.

Nicki is a Licensed Master Social Worker, current Director of Field Education for Herzing University Master of Social Work Program. She has a strong passion for adolescent mental health and self care for helping professionals. She loves to be outside, read, and drink coffee. She lives in Greenville, IL with her husband and two-year-old son.

Sep 20, 202334:50
138: Healing after Trauma with Ashley Chesney

138: Healing after Trauma with Ashley Chesney

(Content warning: trafficking, abuse, and the commercial sex industry)

Trafficking survivor Ashley Chesney joins us on the podcast to discuss healing after trauma. She breaks down a little of her own story and then tells us some truths and misconceptions about trafficking, how we can move towrads those with complex trauma, and how there is always hope for a new story.

Ashley Chesney is a Survivor Leader, author, and advocate in the Anti-Trafficking Movement. She is an inspiring speaker and an expert trainer, and SFMB’s new Executive Director. Additionally, Ashley serves as a member of the CSEC (Commercially Sexually Exploited Children) Advisory Board through the National Center of Youth Law. It is through her own journey, she has found healing that she wants to share with others. Ashley is the author of the memoir From the Ashes and she believes that advocacy, connection, and hope are key in guiding other survivors on a path to reclaim their lives after exploitation. She graduated summa cum laude from Cal State University Monterey Bay with her B.A. in Collaborative Health and Human Services from an inter-disciplinary program that held emphasis on nonprofit management and social work. Ashley is a sex trafficking survivor turned thriver.

You can support Ashley's work at her website and by following Set Free Monterey Bay.

Survivor books:

In Pursuit of Love by Rebecca Bender

Runaway Girl by Carissa Phelps

Scars and Stilettos by Harmony Dust

Girls Like Us by Rachel Lloyd

Purchased: Leaving the Sex Trade by Deanna Lynn

If you or someone you know is being trafficked, please call the National Trafficking Hotline: 888-373-7888 or contact National Rescue America.

Sep 13, 202340:23
137: Trauma and Play with Kelsie Olds, The Occuplaytional Therapist
Sep 06, 202340:23
136: Theory and Application of Trauma-Informed Care with Amber Runyan

136: Theory and Application of Trauma-Informed Care with Amber Runyan

Graduate student Amber Runyan joins the podcast to discuss what it's like to journey from theory to application of trauma-informed care. In her own words, Amber says:

"My name is Amber Runyan. I am 22 years old. I just recently graduated with a bachelors degree in social work from Greenville University this past spring. I am currently an RA and program Care Coordinator at Eden’s Glory where I have been working almost a year and half now. I will be starting my MSW program this fall at SIUE. I think that social work and ministry has been a passion of mine long before college but in college is when I really developed a calling to the anti-trafficking field. I come from a large family and am one of 12 kids, eight of which were adopted. Being a big sister and more recently an aunt has been one of my favorite roles. I am an enneagram Nine. I believe being an enneagram Nine in a large family with lots of outside factors has give me a unique skill set and lens into crisis intervention, trauma, and peacemaking."

Aug 30, 202333:41
135: Trauma Defined with Meghan Reedy

135: Trauma Defined with Meghan Reedy

Clinical therapist Meghan Reedy joins the podcast today to kick off a new series on trauma. In this episode, Meghan defines trauma, including what the terms "big T Trauma" and "little t trauma" mean for everyone. She also leaves us with some practical ways we can all be a little more trauma-informed in our lives, in relationships, and in working with others.

Meghan is the Clinical Director of Eden's Glory, a restoration program for adult survivors of human trafficking. She is also the founder of their minor's program, Foster Kairos, that provides outpatient therapy and caregiver support for kids who have been trafficked or are at risk. Meghan is a licensed clinical social worker and practices several therapy modalities including Internal Family Systems as well as Brainspotting, a new therapy designed to help people process trauma using their visual field. Meghan is a wife of Phillip, mom of Emilia, coffee lover, beach enthusiast, and an enneagram 3. She believes that God provides real and deep healing and is overjoyed at the opportunity to play a part in His plan in the lives of the women and children she serves!

Aug 23, 202337:38
134: Why We Retreat
Aug 16, 202323:12
133: Directors' Cut of Episode 2 (Our Backstory)

133: Directors' Cut of Episode 2 (Our Backstory)

Join Megan and Deedra as they revisit the first full-length episode of The Dauntless Grace Exchange ever! They give you a behind-the-scenes commentary of episode 2 and add in information you didn't get the first time around. Plus, an update three years later!

Jul 27, 202342:42
132: Enneagram Types Moving Toward Wholeness
Jul 19, 202342:43
131: Enneagram Triads and the Promises of God

131: Enneagram Triads and the Promises of God

Applying Scripture verses like a topical bandage isn't really what we are meant to do with the Bible. However, there is a benefit in knowing what Jesus, the embodiment of the Author of Life, says about who we were created to be.

When we understand how our enneagram triads group us around primary emotions (anger, shame, and fear), we can use those emotions as signals to speak to the exiled parts of ourselves and bring them into new wholeness and re-integration. Jesus intimately understands our core longings, desires, and fears, and he has spoken in compassionate and healing ways to each of those unique pain points.

Jul 12, 202331:36
130: Freedom and Wholeness

130: Freedom and Wholeness

It may be a time of celebration of national freedoms, but we don't want to overlook the real freedom we have: the freedom from dis-integration and the freedom to pursue wholeness.

Listen as Deedra and Megan talk about the Pharasaical construct of holiness and how we all can get trapped in a transactional view of God. Also, what did the New Testament mean when it says that everything is "permissible" for believers? The answer lies somewhere in what is holiness versus what is wholeness.

Jul 05, 202325:60
129: Sabbath Practices for Each Enneagram Type
Jun 28, 202347:21
128: Enneagram and Stress Signals (part 2)
May 31, 202327:33
127: Enneagram and Stress Signals (part 1)
May 24, 202331:32
126: Fear and Disconnection

126: Fear and Disconnection

Deedra and Megan have a conversation about the relationship between fear and disconnection and how connection is the remedy for... everything. In Aundi Kolber's new book Strong Like Water, she explains how co-regulation keeps us steady, and how we can find that in the with-ness of God, our self, and others.

May 17, 202326:39
125: Alive or Failure to Thrive?
May 10, 202330:02
124: In Defense of the Enneagram
May 03, 202330:34
123: Constellation of an Enneagram Nine with Joan Ryan

123: Constellation of an Enneagram Nine with Joan Ryan

Enneagram teacher Joan Ryan joins the podcast again to discuss the parts of being a Nine, along with so much more! Listen as she explores:

  • the trailheads to look for when finding your parts
  • the healing messages exiles need to hear
  • main differences between Fours and Nines
  • how the gut/anger center is similar and different for Eights, Nines, and Ones
  • difference in the focus of attention for Twos and Nines
  • self-energy versus self-like parts

Joan is a wealth of information, and you don't want to miss her expertise!

Joan Ryan has been teaching the Enneagram to individuals, groups, businesses and organizations for more than 20 years. Using the experience gained in her previous practice as an attorney, she built a Leadership coaching career which expanded into many sectors and internationally. When she found IFS she saw the possibilities of interweaving the two models as a very positive enhancement to both systems. She had the unusual honor of being directly mentored by two of the premier Enneagram teachers, Helen Palmer and the late Dr. David Daniels. Her most recent work with Tammy Sollenberger focuses on the intersections between the Enneagram and Internal Family Systems therapy. She lives in Boston. Notes:

Episode 70: Enneagram and IFS in the Narrative Tradition

IEA Global Conference 2023

Apr 26, 202346:04
122: Constellation of an Enneagram Eight with Kennedy Shuffett

122: Constellation of an Enneagram Eight with Kennedy Shuffett

Enneagram Eight Kennedy Shuffett joins the podcast to talk with Megan and Deedra about all the parts she's discovered as an Eight and through some Internal Family Systems (IFS) experiences. She reveals that she first thought she was Two, how she's found some helpful Five parts in seasons of deep stress, and why it's difficult to be a female Eight in our society.

Kennedy is wife to Josiah and dog mom to Ellie and Moses. She holds a Master of Social Work from LSU and currently serves as the Office on Violence Against Women Project Director for Greenville University.

Apr 19, 202345:03
121: Constellation of an Enneagram Seven with Corrine Kreamalmeyer

121: Constellation of an Enneagram Seven with Corrine Kreamalmeyer

Corrine Kreamalmeyer jumps on the podcast to talk all things enneagram Seven with Deedra and Megan. Corrine shares her journey in discovering she was a Seven and what she heard that really made it click for her. She also talks a little IFS and about what her Five and One parts look like when they're activated, and how she has some Eight parts that show up as firefighters sometimes.

Corrine is a wife and mom to four girls. She has a degree in Elementary Education, but has been a stay-at-home mom for the last 13 years. She recently added admissions counselor for Greenville University to her resume. She currently spends most days trying to balance soccer, dance, laundry and working. If she could, she would spend more time writing, being with friends and family, and sitting by the ocean.

Apr 12, 202334:17
120: Constellation of an Enneagram Six with Marissa Swift

120: Constellation of an Enneagram Six with Marissa Swift

Enneagram Six Marissa Swift joins the podcast today and shares a beautiful Internal Family Systems (IFS) moment she had at a recent Dauntless Grace retreat. She also shares what some of her Three and Nine parts feel like for her, and what it means to navigate the world through the lens of planning for what's wrong.

Marissa and her husband Chris have been married for 16 years and have one son. Marissa has worked in higher ed for eight years. In her free time, she loves rooting for St. Louis City FC and coaching her son's soccer team.

Apr 05, 202330:54
119: Constellation of an Enneagram Five with Skye Harmon
Mar 29, 202341:07
118: Constellation of an Enneagram Four with Carolyn Candela
Mar 22, 202332:57
117 | Constellation of an Enneagram Three with Lauren Vardaman

117 | Constellation of an Enneagram Three with Lauren Vardaman

Enneagram Three Lauren Vardaman joins Deedra and Megan on the podcast to talk about her journey being a Three and discovering some principles of Internal Family Systems (IFS) for her own healing. Lauren's story encompasses infant loss and miscarriage, and she reveals why learning about being a Three made so much sense as she looks at her grieving process and how she uses her tasking managers to make her way forward.

Lauren is a 36-year-old wife to Lars and mama to one spunky five-and-three-quarters year old boy named Beau and two children in heaven named Ellis and Aster. She currently works in compensation consulting but has a diverse job history, from running beer festivals to working the expo floor at a national cable providers conference. She lives in Fort Myers, Florida, home of the recent largest hurricane in Florida history. Her happy place is the beach, and her angry place is on any road in Southwest Florida. 

Mar 15, 202335:06
116: Constellation of an Enneagram Two with Lela Mager
Mar 08, 202340:15
115: Constellation of an Enneagram One with Randi McSpadden

115: Constellation of an Enneagram One with Randi McSpadden

Enneagram One Randi McSpadden joins Megan and Deedra to discuss the constellation of parts for her type and how she sees her wings and stress and security lines in action. 

Randi and her husband Mike have been married for 25 years and have three amazing children. Randi has been in HR with Ascension Health for over 12 years and currently is the Manager of Associate Success. Her team focuses on eliminating onboarding barriers and creating growth pathways for new associates while improving retention within their first 90 days. In her free time, she loves to tuck away in her sewing room with a good podcast and work on her latest quilt project.

Mar 01, 202338:03
114: Constellation of Parts Introduction with Tammy Sollenberger
Feb 22, 202341:35