The Mormon Renegade Podcast

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One of the things that often rocks the testimony of Mormons is when the historicity of the Book of Mormon is questioned, and it appears that there are some conflicts between science and the Book of Mormon. The truth is however that usually what is thrown into question isn’t the historicity of the Book of Mormon itself but rather narratives that we as individuals read into the text. This is never more on display than when the issue of DNA raised as a critique to the Book of Mormon. I mean if the Book of Mormon is true and details the account of a Middle Eastern family’s settlement of a portion of the New World, we should expect that DNA from Middle Eastern people and some native American populations should match right? Well maybe not as much as you would think. Ken Peterson joins me again on the podcast to break all of this down. By the end I think you might find out like I did that many of the so-called conflicts between the Book of Mormon and DNA research are more conflicts between the narratives we read into the Book of Mormon and the DNA research then with the text itself. 

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Well, there’s a lot happening in the world in the coming weeks and months. We have the eclipse happening the day this episode will drop, an upcoming presidential election that promises to be the most if not one of the most contentious in our nation’s history, two proxy wars we are involved in and economic and social instability at home. As I have the opportunity to talk to a number of different people from all sorts of faith traditions the one thing that always comes through to those people even a little bit tuned into to God and that is that there isa feeling that we are hurtling towards an event. Now while it is true that no man know man knows the day or hour of the Saviors return the Lord in his mercy has given us some signs to look for that will give us an indication on where we are at along the road. One of those signs are talked about in Doctrine & Covenants section 13 where the Lord talks about the Sons of Levi offering up sacrifices again in righteousness. What if I told you that one of the big barriers to that happening has been removed? Today on the podcast Joshua Erickson joins me to have a conversation about the re-emergence of the Red Heifer. We talk about the animal’s significance in the Old Testament, The animals re-emergence and the miraculous events surrounding its reappearance, why the red heifer is necessary, and even how this animal was a catalyst for the Hamas attack in Israel back in October, and finally what all this could mean in regards to the Saviors return. 

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So about ten years ago I remember sitting around the dinner table with my kids and I remember they said something about the Founding Fathers that was just patently false. I asked where they heard such a

thing and they said school. This caused me to look at their curriculum and what I discovered was that certain power brokers on the left had infiltrated public schools and one of their agendas was to discredit the founders so they could “progress” past the constitution. Unfortunately, we are now seeing the same thing happening to Mormonism. There is a movement right now within Mormonism (The Doctrine of Christ Group) that is doing at best revisionist history and at worst just telling flat out lies about Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, John Taylor and others that were so influential and vital to the Restoration in those early days. They are doing this to discredit that early leadership, by discrediting them they then can turn the Restored Gospel into something that appeals more to their own hearts desires. This type of tactic is not only wrong but insidious. Now a while back Justin Griffin and Taylor Smith had a debate about Griffin’s movie “Who Killed Joseph Smith” where Griffin accuses John Taylor & Willard Richards of killing Hyrum & Joseph. But darn it wouldn’t you know it Griffin marked that debate as private. Well, no need to worry because Taylor still has his copy and is still available on his YouTube Chanel.  Today Taylor joins me on the podcast to have a discussion about the debate. During the course of our conversation, as we breakdown the high points of that debate I think it will become apparent why Griffin might not want this out and circulating. Oh, and just for good measure I have included the link to the full debate in the show notes. 

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As Mormons, whatever branch you might be part of we all have a special commission. We have our personal callings that the Lord gives us, but we also have one that is universal to us all and that is to be the people to help others come to know Christ. As time gets shorter and Gods work continues to hasten, we must be the people that can effectively minister to others. To do this however means that we must be as spiritually heathy as we can be. This means we must clean out the crap in our lives. With that in mind I wanted to go over a few principles that I believe can helps us do that. To help me with this series I am bringing Liz Bradley back on the podcast for this series. Liz is life coach who approaches emotional health from Gospel centered point of view. Today Liz and I have a conversation about forgiveness. As we have our conversation it becomes apparent that this principle might be ground zero to help us have healthier relationships and free us up to become the people we need in these last days.

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So here we are at the conclusion of the series on the Life & Times Of John W. Taylor. As Michael Ness finish up our conversation there is some amazing historical information dropped that should forever change the conversation around how much Joseph F. Smith new about Post-Manifesto Plural Marriage during his administration. We then dive into the fall out of John W. Taylors excommunication, Francis Lyman’s inquisition of those living and solemnizing plural marriages and along the way there is some pretty pointed questions asked about Mormon hierarchy during this time, and we wrap it all up by talking about what John W. Taylors impact was on not only Mormon Fundamentalists but also the LDS Church as well. That’s next on this episode of the MRP.  

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Ok I got an amazing conversation for you today. If you remember back to the first episode, I ever did Drew Briney it was about an amazing project that he was working on making an annotated version of the Doctrine & Covenants. Well today Drew comes back on to the podcast to have a conversation about the latest installment of that project, D&C 42. D&C 42 is all about Consecration and United Order. As we breakdown how Drew went about annotating this particular section, we dive head long into what the early leaders of the LDS Church thought about these principles, how it was lived in both the Missouri & Utah periods and what our responsibilities we have as Mormons today have in regards to Consecration & United Order. 

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So we are now on episode number 4 of the series we are doing on the Life and Times Of John W. Taylor. On this episode Michael Ness and I cover a part of Mormon history where the tides really begin to change on the Churches unofficial stance on plural marriage. Now there are two things that really come through on this episode. One is the “band of brothers” mentality that some of the more ardent defenders of the principle had in the quorum of the twelve and even more inspiring than that is perhaps outside of Joseph Smith a personal Christ-like sacrifice made by John W. Taylor and ultimately a betrayal of that sacrifice by some members in the quorum of the twelve that gets my blood boiling and causes me to get a little spicy. 

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So in the last two episodes of this series on the life and times of John W. Taylor you have gotten a master class in Mormon history around the times just preceding and post manifesto. We continue that series today. Last time we left off with pretty much the whole upper leadership of the LDS Church being involved in post manifesto plural marriage. Today Michael Ness and I pick back up in that history. In this episode we cover how small cracks begin to form in the upper leadership, next we dive into a practice that John W Taylor started that would plant the seeds of modern Mormon Fundamentalism, we finish up this part of our conversation by illuminating some history that shows how Heber J Grant went from ardent supporter of post manifesto plural marriage to its most active persecutor. 

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So next week we will pick back up on the John W. Taylor story with Michael Ness.

No matter who I talk to, folks from the LDS Church, Mormon Fundamentalists, Baptists, Lutherans, or Catholics one thing seems to be very evident and that is if we are tuned in even a little bit to God we all have the sense that society and the world are hurtling towards an event that feels like it is picking up speed and intensity. Now if we are a religion that focuses on Jesus Christ our minds naturally and rightfully so turn to His Second Coming. Today on the podcast I have on Morgan Philpot. Morgan is a former attorney and Utah Legislator. Because he has been in these circles and is also a devout follower of the Savior, he has some pretty interesting insights. Morgan has put together a really compelling timeline for last days events that I think is worth some conversation. In this episode we have a discussion about that timeline as we explore these themes we also touch on Ezra’s Eagle, and also some striking parallels between the southern kingdom of Judah and also some events from third Nephi to modern day Utah. As Morgan draws these parallels, they point to some things happening to Utah that is not ideal. Towards the end of this episode, I make a major announcement concerning me and my family so you will want to stick around for that for sure. 

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Today we continue with our series on John W. Taylor and the history that surrounds his life. On today’s episode we cover a truly fascinating time in Mormon History. We left off last time right as the LDS Church was about to sign the Manifesto. Well today we are going to go over that and also how the LDS Church continued to perform Plural Marriages. We cover how the LDS Church tried to keep this practice hidden, the colonies in Mexico and Canada, and how the LDS Church compartmentalized information so that the practice could continue. If you have ever wondered just how much the LDS Church was involved in Post-Manifesto Plural Marriage stick around and prepare to have your perceptions shattered. 

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So last year Michael Ness and I sat down and had a conversation about Joseph W Musser. I got a lot of great feedback from that episode. With that in mind I decided that I wanted to put out more content like that which dealt with Mormon Fundamentalist history and its prominent players. This time Michael joins me again as we discuss John W Taylor. Now we anticipate that this will be a two- or three-part series, on this first instalment about John W Taylor we cover all the events that led up to John W Taylors ministry. Buckle up because you are about to get a master class in the time period around the persecution of those early saints by the United States government which would ultimately give rise to the Manifesto. By the end of this episode, you will have a greater understanding of those persecutions and in turn our own history as Mormon Fundamentalists.

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I firmly believe that what our nation is facing right is all do to a plan that was enacted almost one hundred years ago. The progressives sought to “help society progress past the constitution”. Now these people were patient. However, every so often during that one hundred there would be moments that the plan would be accelerated. I believe the decade of the 1960’s were one of those times. Now while certainly most people in America during the sixties were still conservative it would be a time when we could start to see the fabric of society begin to fray. Now we find ourselves in a place where the Haight-Ashbury type hippies of that decade are now in control of the government. To understand the problem fully and come up with a solution we must look back at the problem. On this episode I am joined by author Jonathan Leaf. Jonathan has written a book titled “The Politically Incorrect Guide To The Sixties. During our conversation we break down some of the ideas and political policies that have changed our society forever. 

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Utah is perhaps the most unique state in the union. It is a state where not only freedom is embraced but carrys a belief that freedom and rights come from God. Now this has served Utah well for a long time. Unfortunately, this also attracts unwanted attention for those who want to subvert these founding ideals. They feel like if they can turn Utah left they can get it done anywhere. On this episode I have Utah’s political watch-dog Chelcie Hope back on the podcast to talk about all the crazy, socialist policies trying to be implemented on the down low. Some of these updates are absolutely explosive. No matter if you live in Utah or not pay close attention because the tactics used here are used everywhere. 

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If you remember about this time last year I had the opportunity to sit down and have a conversation with Julie Behling. At that time Julie had just wrote the book Beneath Sheep’s Clothing which uncovered the various tactics the far-left uses to indoctrinate children in public education. Well she is comes back on the podcast to talk about the documentary that was made from the book. We talk about new things she had learned about the far-lefts plot, the heavy hitters she worked with from the Freedom Movement, and where and how to support the film.

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This week Hulu dropped a new documentary about Ervil LeBaron. I think over all the documentary was pretty well done. However, it was produced in a way that would appeal to a very large audience and had to be told in a way that would make sense to a largely non-mormon audience. I had other questions about this story. Mainly what was happening inside the Joel LeBaron’s Church of The First Born that set the table for Ervils insanity. Fortunately for me DeWayne Hafen has just published a book on the subject. DeWayne was a member of that church and got to see firsthand how things went off the rails. In this episode DeWayne and I talk about the LeBaron family, How Joel established the Church of the First Born in Mexico, what Ervils role in that church was, and the surrounding tensions that ultimately led to Ervil ordering the deaths of many people. My hope is that by examining all of these topics we as Mormons can take away some lessons and be on guard so nothing like this ever again happens in Mormonism. 

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There are so many cool things about Mormonism. Plurality of Gods, Priesthood, Ascension to Godhood, Temple ordinances and on and on it goes. Perhaps one the most misunderstood of theses are seer stones. Many a Mormon has become a little freaked out about the topic and understandably so. I mean it’s not something that seems to be in the Christian vernacular a whole bunch. None the less we know that Joseph Smith used one as did Brigham Young so there’s certainly something to it and it deserves our attention. On this episode I have Kevin Kraut back on the podcast to talk about this very subject and I can’t think of a better for it. I mean his dad literally wrote the book on the subject. We cover the biblical history of seer stones, the use of them by Joseph Smith and other early Mormon leaders. From there we then have a conversation about how they were used and how they fit into the Restored Gospel of Jesus Christ. 

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Well its December 23, You didn’t really think that I would let Joseph’s birthday come and go without having an episode about him did ya? Joseph Smith weather you love him or hate him has had influence on the entire world for the last 218 years and that has no sign of changing. Today Ken Peterson joins me on the podcast to talk about perhaps Joseph’s most profound revelations and that is Temple theology. We look at Joseph’s theology then go back in time all the way to ancient Egypt where we see striking parallels between the two, we then have a conversation about Temple work in the restoration, we finally wrap the episode by talking about Joseph Smith’s impact on the world and what his teachings on temples really mean for us as Mormons as a group and individually.  

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Today on the podcast we are going to talk about some pretty heady stuff so if you haven’t already you might want to sign up for the Six-dollar Patreon option so you can get the transcript and hit all the scriptural references here. On this episode I have Sean Anderson on the podcast to talk about the One-Man Doctrine. We cover what it is, the history of it in Mormonism, where the idea sprouts from and its implications. We then take a deep dive into scripture and history and what we find is that scripture might be saying something completely different than what many of us had supposed. Because this conversation touches so heavily on the ideas of keys and authority, we are forced to take a pretty significant dive into the second anointing, and the principles of priesthood keys and presiding. Get ready for a thought-provoking episode of the MRP   

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For many years if you were a Mormon who wanted to practice Mormonism outside the mainstream LDS Church you could bet that you would encounter push back. Well today we live in a different world where that push back for the most part is gone. Now this is all well and good but we who enjoy being able to live Mormonism outside the LDS Church owe a debt of gratitude to those older generations that have preserved the truth for us. The best way I can think of repaying that debt is to now come out of the shadows and let our voices be heard. Today I sit down and have a conversation with a woman trying to do just that. Sara Decker comes on to talk about her new podcast “From The Dust”. We talk about here experience in the Restored Gospel of Jesus Christ, How & why she made the decision to separate from the LDS Church, Where she got the idea to make a podcast, & what the podcast will cover. Along the way we stop to discuss a wide range of Gospel Principles.

https://anchor.fm/saradecker 

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So, the second or third episode I ever did of this podcast was about me. After a few months I just didn’t like it, so I took it down. I also never wanted the podcast to be about me, I wanted it to be about Mormon history and Mormon doctrine. Well fast forward a year and a half and I have had several requests for that episode. About the same time, I was approached by Greg Knight about him interviewing me for his magazine The Fundamentalist. So, I thought “well crap let’s kill two birds with one stone and combine the two.”  So today I am publishing that interview. So, if you ever wanted to know how I got behind this mic here ya go. That’s next on this episode of the MRP.

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Today we are going to pick back up on the Word of Wisdom series. Later in this series I plan on having a fitness expert on to talk about exercise and over all physical health. Now if you recall a few weeks ago we talked about what the Word of Wisdom says about the consumption of meat with Joshua Erickson. Well today Joshua comes back on the podcast as we talk about wine. We talk about its prescription in the Word of Wisdom, from there we take an even deeper dive into what constitutes a sacrament, then our conversation turns to the Old and New Testaments as well as the Book of Mormon to see what scripture has to say about wine and its symbology in the Restored Gospel. That and more on this episode of the MRP.  

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One of the biggest things we as fundamentalists watch for is changing ordinances. As Joseph Smith said, “If there is no change of ordinances, there is no change of priesthood.” Now this seems simple on the surface but when does something become a change, verses cleaning up the language of an ordinance? Well today I have Drew Briney back on the podcast to talk about his new book “Changing Ordinances, Changing Priesthood?” that tries to explain just that. Drew breaks down historical incidences of change both in and out of the LDS Church and evaluates what those changes mean to us as Mormons and disciples of Christ.

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https://www.amazon.com/Changing-Ordinances-Losing-Priesthood-Briney-ebook/dp/B0CN2LLBDL

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Today we are going to continue the series of exploring the branches of Mormon Fundamentalism series as we take a look at the True & Living Church of Jesus Christ Of The Last Days also called The TLC or the Harmston Group. Christopher Layton who is an Apostle of the TLC & I have a conversation about the group’s founder Jim Harmston, Christophers conversion to the TLC, the history of the group from its inception to the present, some of the challenges they have faced and finish up by talking about some of the unique doctrines of the TLC. Now we may not agree with some of the doctrines but if we truly desire understanding we need to be able to explore beliefs even if we don’t agree with them. 

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Well it’s a big day on the podcast its episode #100. Yep I know I didn’t think I would get this far either. I have a few special announcements on this podcast that I really need you to hear. These announcements will be made right after the into commercials on this episode. Ok moving on to this episode.  Joseph Smith is obviously the man when we talk about the Restoration. He wore a lot of hats in his ministry. The one we are most familiar with is that of prophet. So, if Joseph Smith is a prophet we should expect to see some of his prophecies fulfilled. Well today I have Brian Stutzman to talk about a book he has written that explores the fulfilled prophecies of the Prophet Joseph Smith. We cover Brian’s backstory just a bit then dive right into some of Joseph’s prophecies that we have seen come to pass. Towards the end we discuss what this all means for believers in the Restored Gospel of Jesus Christ and Joseph Smith’s legacy. That and more on this episode of the MRP

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So today we are going to pick backup with the Exploring the Branches of Fundamentalism Series. Today on the podcast have Seth Laub. Seth is the grandson of the man who first received a call from the Lord to go back to Missouri and begin to establish a settlement of Mormon Fundamentalists. In this episode we cover the genesis of the move to Missouri, the hardships, struggles, and miracles that accompanied the move out there. From there we cover significant events that happened as what started off from a handful of family became to be a thriving community of Mormon Fundamentalists, we then finish up talking about how this group of fundamentalists ended up building a fundamentalist temple in rural Missouri. As you listen to this episode, I think you will be amazed at how similar of their experiences have been to the early days of the restoration. 

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Before you start this episode, I am going to ask you to do a couple Of things, first if you’re not yet a subscriber to the Mormon Renegade Patreon Channel go there now and signup for either the six or twelve dollar tier because there are some photos you will defiantly want to see for this episode. Second go and take the batteries out of your smoke detectors because we are going to cover some Gospel topics that will blow your mind. I have Ken Peterson back on the podcast and we discuss the Origins and Destiny of the Earth and its people. This discussion was amazing. We start look at some hidden gems from the scriptures and early Mormon leaders. We discuss everything from age of the earth, The Earths Place in the Universe Pre and Post Fall, The Earths Ultimate Re-Location after the Millennium, Pre-Adamites, Mormon Cosmology. We then finish our conversation by talking about what all this really means to us as Mormons. 

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I am a man of simple tastes. I love hanging out with my family, I love learning about the Gospel, I like watching football while eating Doritos and washing it down with an ice-cold diet Pepsi and really like smoking brisket and grilling steak. But if you like me maybe you have stopped and asked the question…. Am I eating meat “sparingly”? Well fellow carnivores rejoice!! Today on the podcast I have Joshua Erickson back on the podcast and we take a deep dive into the Word of Wisdom and really look at that portion where it talks about the consumption of meat. 

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As a Mormon Fundamentalist who believes that we need to let our light shine as a people I always love to see when others get out front and start projects that look to make life richer for other fundamentalists. Today I have on a couple of men that are seeking to do just that. Greg Knight and Chad Hyde come on the podcast to talk about an ambitious plan to have a periodical both digitally and in print. During our conversation we cover each of their journeys into Mormon Fundamentalism, What was the motivation behind their plan for a Mormon Fundamentalist Magazine, What kind of content the magazine will have, and finally what their ultimate hope and goal is for themagazine.

https://thefundamentalistonline.blogspot.com/

 fundamentalistmag@gmail.com

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 Ok this is this will be the last episode I will do on this subject for the for seeable future. I have Taylor Smith on the podcast to discuss two new websites that contains two essays he wrote about race and the priesthood. Those websites are https://blacksandthepriesthood.com  and https://priesthoodban.com. We cover the essays themselves focusing on The Historical, Scriptural, Rational, and Revelatory Examinations. Now since last week’s episode I have received countless messages and emails asking what my thoughts on the issue you are. Well first I want to say that it shouldn’t matter what I think, I am not your priest, rabbi, bishop, or prophet. These are issues that folks need to study for themselves, pray about and then get their own answers, however at the end I will tell the audience where I land on this. 

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I have been beating the drum periodically through out this podcast that I don’t think the economy is real great. Because I am not an economist, I have Kelsey Williams back on the podcast to talk about the three most likely scenarios that could happen to the economy in the coming year. We look at the what could trigger these events and what the outcomes would be. We then finish up by talking about a unique and what I believe is a worthwhile service Kelsey is offering to help you make the best financial decisions for you and your family. 

Visit https://www.kelseywilliamsgold.com/home/ Or Email Direct at kwilliams@kelseywilliamsgold.com

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When I was first exploring Mormon Fundamentalism, I found that the search was hard to find people and groups to talk to. It seemed to be just the nature of most fundamentalists to be kind of on the down low and that was for good reason based on all the persecution that the community had endured. I just remember being frustrated that there wasn’t a place to go where I could and just read about the groups and their different ideas and history. Well today on the podcast I have on Michael & Nichole Sundals. They are spearheading a project that seeks to do just that through a new website they are building. We talk about their journey into Mormon Fundamentalism, how they felt inspired to do what they are engaged in, What the vision is for their project. We also then take a deep dive into what Michael & Nichole believe as far as doctrine and priesthood authority.   

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Today we resume the exploring the branches of Mormon Fundamentalism series. On this episode I have Josh Thompson on the podcast as we have a conversation about the Apostolic United Brethren also called the AUB. Josh is the grandson on Rulon C. Allred and has been a member of the AUB his entire life. In our conversation we talk about the history of the group by discussing the Presidents of the AUB starting with Rulon C. Allred down to the present and exploring notable events that happened during their respective administrations. We then move on to talk about the culture of the AUB, where we discuss their various communities, activities, along with practices around courtship and marriage. We then finish up by having a conversation about doctrine’s that are held by the AUB all the while taking time to discuss gospel principles.  

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I know it’s only Wednesday, but because of the timeliness of the issue I felt like I needed to get this one out ASAP. Now don’t worry I will still be releasing another episode on Saturday as well, it’s just one of those weeks where you will be getting two episodes. Now if you’re a Mormon and unless you have been living under a rock, I am sure you have heard the noise about Tim Ballard and the dust up he has been having with the LDS Church. What this seems to be doing is dividing people into camps and factions in all of Mormonism. Well today I have on Justin Francom to help not just breakdown the story but also to get down to the root of the problem here and it all comes down to one thing and that is idolatry.

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Next week we will be picking back up with our exploring the Branches of Fundamentalism series and trust me you will not want to miss next week’s episode so stay tuned for that. But on this episode, I wanted to explore another Gospel topic.

 As Mormons we all seem to have baked into our spiritual DNA a longing for Zion. Over time however the definition of what Zion actually is has changed. Zion went from an actual place in time and space to some sort of weird ethereal idea of building Zion in our hearts and homes or wherever the Saints gather. That however isn’t really accurate when you look at statements from the leaders of the founding generation of Mormonism. Today on the podcast I have on Jesse Fisher. Jesse is a devout member of the LDS Church who has written a book called Champions for Zion which takes quotes from early leaders of the LDS Church and puts the idea of Zion back in its proper context. Not only do we talk about Jesse’s book and some of those early teachings about Zion but we also have a very interesting conversation about a project that he is a part of to build communities (not affiliated with the LDS Church) that are stepping stones to Zion type communities.