Embracing Erosion

On this episode of Embracing Erosion, Devon chats with Jason Smith, the visionary CEO and Co-Founder of Klue. They discuss building bootstrapped businesses vs VC-backed, the risks associated with starting a company, why hiring is a make-it-or-break-it, the downside of corporate decision-making processes, the pros and cons of building in Canada vs the U.S., how often the company vision should evolve, and implementing a community-led growth model, and much more. Enjoy!

On this episode of Embracing Erosion, Devon sits down with Julia Szatar, the Head of Marketing at Tavus, a fast-growing generative AI company redefining what’s possible with personalized video at scale.

They discuss Julia’s experience with Loom during their hyper-growth period post-COVID, what lessons she has taken away from that experience, how she balances priorities and planning in her role at Tavus (whose core products are large language models), advice for product marketing leaders looking to make the jump to CMO, and much more. Enjoy the conversation!

On this episode of Embracing Erosion, Devon was joined once again by Ryan Sorley. Ryan is the VP of Win-Loss and Co-founder at Klue, having sold his research firm, DoubleCheck Research to Klue a few years back. With a career rooted in research and strategy, Ryan has worked with hundreds of B2B tech companies to help them understand why they win and lose deals. He’s held roles at leading firms like Forrester and Gartner and recently authored Blindspots: The Ultimate Guide to Building a Better Win-Loss Program, a practical playbook for companies looking to turn buyer feedback into competitive advantage.

They go deep on all things win-loss, and we get Ryan’s tactical advice on how to set up a win-loss program and how to make it more impactful with the right soft skills. Enjoy!

On this episode of Embracing Erosion, Devon sits down with Max Shaw, Co-Founder of Windmill, an AI company focused on helping people managers be more effective. Prior to founding Windmill, Max worked at Yext for over a decade, departing as the SVP of Product Management, where he oversaw Product Management, Product Marketing, and UX teams.

They disscuss Max's journey from early software projects to his long tenure at Yext and co-founding Windmill, exploring his perspectives on product management, the evolving role of product marketing, the transition from enterprise to startup, and insights into how AI, especially through Windmill, is reshaping workplace management and the skills needed for future professionals. Enjoy the conversation!

On this episode of Embracing Erosion, Devon sits down with Gary Arnold, a seasoned go-to-market leader with a unique blend of experience across sales, product, and product marketing. Gary built and led the global product marketing function at PayPal and GoDaddy, and has served in sales leadership roles at Amazon and CardTapp, where he was the Chief Revenue Officer. They dive into marketecture building, how to measure platform success (vs revenue-based, siloed product KPIs), how he scaled a nascent product marketing function at PayPal to a team of 25, how AI is impacting every company's GTM motion including the decline of SEO and the rise of Generative Engine Optimization (or GEO), and much more. Enjoy the conversation!

On this episode of Embracing Erosion, Devon chats with Lori Goode, the Chief Marketing Officer of Index Exchange. They discuss what working in hospitality can teach you about being a marketer, why the pace of innovation is what makes ad tech so attractive, the difference between mentors and sponsors, how to advocate for your career, why streaming TV remains so nascent and exciting, why consumer values must be reflected in brands, how ChatGPT is disrupting SEO, how to build your annual plans and budget, and much more. Enjoy!

On this episode of Embracing Erosion, Devon chats with Julie Towns, the VP of Product Marketing at Pinterest. They discuss the messy middle of the shopping journey and how Pinterest is in a position to help consumers and brands alike, the power of having a singular focus, the importance of retrospectives, how to lead remote teams, the nuances of having Product Marketing report into Product vs Marketing, and much more. Enjoy!

On this episode of Embracing Erosion, Devon chats with Janine Gianfredi, the Chief Marketing Officer at Transcarent and the former Chief Marketing Officer at the United States Digital Service under the Obama Administration. They discuss the healthcare industry and why and how it needs to be simplified, the differences between making decisions at a startup vs an enterprise, lessons from working within Google's innovation unit, X, what it’s like getting recruited by the White House and serving as the Digital Service’s CMO, tons of leadership advice, and much more. Enjoy!

On this episode of Embracing Erosion, Devon chats with Emma Stratton, the Founder of Punchy, a consulting and training firm that helps B2B tech companies with messaging. They discuss why you should create and invest in a brand, how to break through your mental ceiling, how to write more clearly and with impact using SMIT (you’ll learn what this means), why it is better to operate off of faith not fear, and much more. Enjoy!

On this episode of Embracing Erosion, Devon chats with Marcus Andrews, the Sr. Director of Product Marketing at Pendo. They discuss how to build a strategic narrative and why it's critical for any business, why GTM models are cyclical and not linear, how to measure product marketing teams' performance, why making quick, iterative decisions is the way to go, and much more. Enjoy!

On this episode of Embracing Erosion, Devon sits down with Cody Bender, Chief Product Officer at Boardable, to explore how his diverse experience across multiple industries has equipped him to innovate in the nonprofit tech space. They dive into the unique challenges and opportunities of building products for nonprofit boards, the evolving landscape of nonprofit operations, and how unbundling a core product can drive growth. Cody also shares insights on harnessing voice of customer data effectively, the future of innovation in nonprofits, and much more. Enjoy the conversation!

On this episode of Embracing Erosion, Devon chats with Layne Cox, the CMO of Union and multi-time unicorn company marketing leader (Slice, Ibotta, Grubhub). They discuss why point-of-sale (POS) is dead, how Union can help restaurants and bars provide exceptional experiences for their guests, break down the business model and analyze how to create a marketplace flywheel, define how to become a stronger leader, and much more. Enjoy!

On this episode of Embracing Erosion, Devon chats with Fluvio Principals, Shari Diamond and Tom Crist. Given their roles overseeing strategy with a handful of clients each quarter (companies like Amplitude, Worldpay, eBay, OpenX, and many others) these two are perfectly situated to give us the low down on what c-suite execs are looking for out of their product marketing teams and to break down trends they see in market.

On this episode of Embracing Erosion, Devon chats with Alex Pattis, the General Partner of Riverside Ventures and founding team member of Hampton. They discuss how to scale a company from concept to 9-figure exit, how to break away from the traditional consulting model and apply product approaches, why it’s important to iterate quickly and often with messaging, the pros and cons of Special Purpose Vehicle (SPV) investing vs the traditional VC fund model, what signals are important to pay attention to when investing in startups, and much more. Enjoy!

On this episode of Embracing Erosion, Devon chats with friend of the pod and Ignition CEO, Derek Osgood. They discuss the launch of Ignition 2.0, updates to their GTM strategy, and the state of B2B software. Enjoy!

On this episode of Embracing Erosion, Devon chats with Amanda Groves, the VP of Product Marketing at Enable and one of Sharebird’s Top 100 Product Marketing Leaders in 2022 and 2023. They break down the recent McKinsey report on product marketing and the latest data from the Product Marketing Alliance and discuss the tools the best product marketing teams need, how PMMs can and should use AI, how to become inspired and manage stress, and much more. Enjoy!

On this episode of Embracing Erosion, Devon chats with seasoned tech CPO and GM, Scott Gaines. They discuss the importance of empathy when implementing big changes, why it’s often better to simplify and reduce product offerings in order to realize larger opportunities, the magic of combining industry veterans with fresh, ambitious outsiders during GTM processes, how to develop resiliency as an individual and as a leader, and so much more. Enjoy!

On this episode of Embracing Erosion, Devon chats with Ben Slater, the Senior Vice President of Marketing at Beamery, a leading talent lifecycle management platform. They discuss how to grow a 50+ person marketing team from scratch, how leadership skills and requirements evolve throughout a company's lifecycle, how to use technology and AI to hire based on potential vs past experience, why it’s becoming increasingly critical to understand and map existing internal talent for redeployment on business-critical needs vs sourcing externally, why in difficult times it’s important to be perceived as a painkiller vs a vitamin, and so much more. Enjoy!

On this episode of Embracing Erosion, Devon chats with product marketing leader and career coach, Yi Lin Pei. They discuss how to build a cult following on LinkedIn, how to nail (and fail) an interview, how to accelerate into a leadership role, what the perfect 90-day onboarding plan looks like, and much more. Enjoy!

This episode is going to be a bit unique. As a part of our new partnership with the Product Marketing Alliance, we get access to PMA’s robust dataset. With an expanded reach, and combined efforts in researching, synthesizing, publishing, and promoting insights, the partnership is committed to advancing the product marketing industry's collective knowledge - a great example is the Leadership Briefing Program coming to Austin, NYC, San Francisco, and London in 2024. 

After presenting in both Austin and NYC in Q1, Devon gives Embracing Erosion listeners a peek into some of what was discussed, trends that data suggests will persist, and areas we should begin to re-evaluate as product marketing leaders in the years ahead. 

On this episode of Embracing Erosion, Devon chats with Jay Roxe, a veteran marketing leader and the former CMO at several influential tech companies including HYPR and BitSight. They discuss his engineering past and what that taught him now as a marketing leader, why CMOs - much like product marketers, must master storytelling, why simplifying is multiplying, the ins and outs of cybersecurity and AI’s impact, how to be a people-first manager, and much more. Enjoy!

On this episode of Embracing Erosion, Devon chats with Jason Smith, the visionary CEO and Co-Founder of Klue. They discuss building bootstrapped businesses vs VC-backed, the risks associated with starting a company, why hiring is a make-it-or-break-it, the downside of corporate decision-making processes, the pros and cons of building in Canada vs the U.S., how often the company vision should evolve, and implementing a community-led growth model, and much more. Enjoy!

On this episode of Embracing Erosion, Devon chats with Janine Gianfredi, the Chief Marketing Officer at Transcarent and the former Chief Marketing Officer at the United States Digital Service under the Obama Administration. They discuss the healthcare industry and why and how it needs to be simplified, the differences between making decisions at a startup vs an enterprise, lessons from working within Google's innovation unit, X, what it’s like getting recruited by the White House and serving as the Digital Service’s CMO, tons of leadership advice, and much more. Enjoy!

On this episode of Embracing Erosion, Devon chats with Tony Yang, the Growth Advisor to portfolio companies at Mucker Capital and MuckerLab, and the CEO & Co-founder of RevOptica. They discuss how early-stage companies need to think about growth, the most common mistakes startups make, product-centric messaging vs outcome-based messaging, the difference between demand creation and demand capture, and much more. Enjoy!

On this episode of Embracing Erosion, Devon sits down to make 2024 predictions alongside Jason Oakley (Founder of Productive PMM) and Derek Osgood (Co-founder and CEO of Ignition). Looking into 2024, they make predictions such as the continued convergence of product management and product marketing roles, B2B influencers now securing media budgets, AI creating a wider gap between average and great product marketers, a pivoted emphasis on retention and upsells, and a whole lot more. Enjoy!

On this episode of Embracing Erosion, Devon chats with Ian Cairns, the co-founder and CEO of Freeplay and former product leader at Firstbase and Twitter. They discuss the power of conducting interviews before building a product, how LLMs will change how products are built and tested, the evolution of the AI ecosystem, practical fundraising tips and why there is such as stark difference raising for an AI company vs everything else, why remote work doesn’t necessarily mean an asynchronous culture, and much more. Enjoy!

On this episode of Embracing Erosion, Devon chats with Andrew Blancato, the Founder of Purpose Talent and former people and recruiting leader for companies like Kickstarter, Etsy, and Casper. They discuss how to architect early-stage company infrastructure, how to define culture, what it means to truly be mission-driven, how to effectively recruit executives, why building a network pays dividends, and much more. Enjoy!

On this episode of Embracing Erosion, Devon chats with Andy McCotter-Bicknell, the Head of Competitive Intelligence at Apollo. They discuss how to accelerate your career, the branding implications of being acquired, the future of go-to-market tech, how to initially build out a CI program, defining competitors vs alternatives, his vision for his community, Healthy Competition, and much more. Enjoy!

On this episode of Embracing Erosion, Devon chats with Lori Goode, the Chief Marketing Officer of Index Exchange. They discuss what working in hospitality can teach you about being a marketer, why the pace of innovation is what makes ad tech so attractive, the difference between mentors and sponsors, how to advocate for your career, why streaming TV remains so nascent and exciting, why consumer values must be reflected in brands, how ChatGPT is disrupting SEO, how to build your annual plans and budget, and much more. Enjoy!

On this episode of Embracing Erosion, Devon chats with Chris Mills, the VP of Product Marketing at Wrike. They discuss why product marketers make for great consultants and vice versa, where product marketing should sit within the organization, roles and responsibilities and the best ways to build stakeholder relationships, early-stage vs late-stage product marketing, the key considerations when defining a GTM strategy, the current (rocky) state of company valuations, and how SaaS pricing models will evolve. Enjoy!

On this episode of Embracing Erosion, Devon chats with Bryan Clayton, the CEO and Co-Founder of GreenPal. They discuss what business school can’t teach you about growing a business, how building a business can feel like playing a video game, the benefits of bootstrapping a business and tactically how to exit, why firsthand experience with the core problem is critical as a founder, and he leaves us with a simple equation for success: Success = Results - Expectations. Enjoy!

On this episode of Embracing Erosion, Devon provides his analysis of the top four product marketing trends to keep an eye on and speaks with thought leaders at the Product Marketing Summit in San Francisco. Devon and the group dissect trends such as career fragmentation and ownership, customer-centric roadmapping, product marketing KPIs and how to support business growth, and creator marketing. Guests include:

1. Viv Luu, the Product Marketing Lead for Uber Freight
2. Dana Wolfe, the Sr Director of Product Marketing at Omada Health
3. Suyog Deshpande, the former Product Marketing leader at the likes of Samsara, Amplitude, and Salesforce
4. Meenal Relekar, product marketing leader at StyleSeat, and formerly of Doordash, and Dropbox

On this episode of Embracing Erosion, Devon chats with Amanda Malko, the former CMO at G2 and marketing leader at Mailchimp. They discuss why having an insanely loved product with customer evangelists is the key to a great company outcome, why leaders must set a clear vision and goals, how to weigh ROI and risk in decision-making, what the digitalization of photography can teach us about embracing AI, why a successful life shouldn’t mean “work at all costs", and much more. Enjoy!

On this episode of Embracing Erosion, Devon chats with Kalyn New, the VP of Marketing at ROLLER. They discuss what wine tasting can teach you about marketing, what to do as a marketer if your audience doesn’t use or value digital channels, how to foster team collaboration and creativity, how leaders should balance transparency with authenticity, why saying no to new customers can be powerful, and much more. Enjoy!

On this episode of Embracing Erosion, Devon chats with Adrian Koehler, the Founder and Senior Partner of executive coaching firm, Take New Ground. They discuss how to escape a victim mentality and the power of accepting responsibility, leading with authenticity, how to ask the most difficult questions, the importance of creating a culture of leadership (and how), and much more. Enjoy!

On this episode of Embracing Erosion, Devon chats with Tamara Grominsky, the Founder of PMM Camp and formally the VP of Product Marketing at Kajabi and Chief Strategy Officer at Unbounce. They discuss how to go from product marketing leader to a c-suite executive, break down how to launch a solopreneur business, how to diversify a product portfolio and revenue streams, how to use urgency and scarcity in your go-to-market strategy, and much more. Enjoy!

On this episode of Embracing Erosion, Devon chats with Nicole Silver, the SVP of Marketing at Volta. They discuss the intersection of technology, media, and climate awareness, why company and product positioning is never static, how carbon emissions and transportation are evolving, how a career in politics can teach you marketing tactics, how to make decisions with a macro-to-micro approach, and much more. Enjoy!

On this episode of Embracing Erosion, Devon chats with Chris Wells, the Founder and Managing Director of Adience, a B2B market research consultancy. They discuss B2B research best practices, how to source qualitative interviews, the common mistakes B2B companies make with their research efforts, how the practice of market research is evolving, why every leader should try to make themselves redundant, and much more. Enjoy!

On this episode of Embracing Erosion, Devon chats with Jason Grunberg, the Chief Marketing Officer at Bluecore. They discuss using time horizons to view roles and responsibilities and to become a more effective leader, what it’s like being a CMO at a PE-backed portfolio business vs a venture-backed company, why community marketing is the next frontier, how generative AI will impact marketing orchestration, and much more. Enjoy!

On this episode of Embracing Erosion, Devon chats with Steven Cohn, a 4x founder and the current Founder & CEO of Winware, an AI company dedicated to helping product-led teams trial conversion rates. They discuss what it’s like building and exiting 3 businesses (and working on his 4th), what Monday.com and other leading PLG companies are doing to drive conversions and retention, why it’s important to just get started and not mull ideas over too long, and much more. Enjoy!

On this episode of Embracing Erosion, Devon chats with Patrick Wall, the Head of Competitive Intelligence at cybersecurity company, Imperva. They discuss the current state of cybersecurity, how to build an exceptional competitive intelligence (CI) program, why tiering competitors leads to more focus, how AI will impact cybersecurity and CI, why qualitative data can sometimes be more insightful than quantitative, and much more. Enjoy!

On this episode of Embracing Erosion, Devon chats with Ryan Sorley, the Vice President of Win/Loss at Klue and the founder of DoubleCheck Research a win/loss analysis firm acquired by Klue in early 2023. They discuss the challenges of growing a services business, what it's like to sell your business, how win/loss programs help entire organizations grow, how generative AI will impact win/loss, and much more. Enjoy!

In the season premiere of the Competitive Enablement Show, Fluvio's founder and managing partner Devon O'Rourke joined Adam to talk about what it takes to create a winning go-to-market motion. Devon shares why it's a mistake to put the cart (your product) before the horse (your GTM motion), why the best leaders understand that decisions are always a two-way door, and why your leadership team needs to understand the market landscape — especially your position relative to the competition. Enjoy!

On this episode of Embracing Erosion, Devon chats with Marcus Andrews, the Sr. Director of Product Marketing at Pendo. They discuss how to build a strategic narrative and why it's critical for any business, why GTM models are cyclical and not linear, how to measure product marketing teams' performance, why making quick, iterative decisions is the way to go, and much more. Enjoy!

On this episode of Embracing Erosion, Devon chats with Evan Huck, Co-Founder and CEO of UserEvidence. They discuss how being a sales leader can translate into being a founder and CEO, the current challenges and opportunities in enterprise sales, the evolution of venture capital during challenging economic environments, and much more. Enjoy!

On this episode of Embracing Erosion, Devon chats with Renat Gersch, a product marketing evangelist who has built and led PMM teams at companies such as Treasure Data and Wrike. They discuss why the CEO must lead the strategic company narrative, why product marketers are stewards of narrative design and messaging, the intricacies of the enterprise sales cycle and how PMMs can help close deals, why we're seeing new titles forming within product marketing, the three C's that represent characteristics all leaders must have or build, and much more. Enjoy!

On this episode of Embracing Erosion, Devon chats with Rowan Noronha, the founder of the Product Marketing Community and an advisor to both high-growth and enterprise companies such as Gong and Clari to name a few. They discuss where product marketers should sit within a SaaS org, they define the definition of product marketing and how PMMs help CMOs and C-suite executives W.I.N. (hint, that's an acronym, you’ll find out what it stands for), the 4 most important characteristics leaders must have, and much more. Enjoy!

On this episode of Embracing Erosion, Devon chats with Adam Oliver, the founder of the product consultancy, Crafted. They discuss how to build great products with lean teams, the top challenges product teams are facing today and in the future, how to grow businesses and products responsibly, the ideal ratio between product, design, engineering, and much more. Enjoy!

On this episode of Embracing Erosion, Devon chats with Julie Towns, the VP of Product Marketing at Pinterest. They discuss the messy middle of the shopping journey and how Pinterest is in a position to help consumers and brands alike, the power of having a singular focus, the importance of retrospectives, how to lead remote teams, the nuances of having Product Marketing report into Product vs Marketing, and much more. Enjoy!