Fireside chats without the fires
By Fireside Chats Without The Fire
Join your host, and customer experience advocate, Neal Topf, for a discussion around customer experience. Neal, and his guests, will guide you through the latest happenings within the customer experience space, what is hot, what is not, and what is coming down the pipeline.
Learn how a great customer experience not only leaves customers and employees happy but also has a positive impact on the companies revenue.
Fireside chats without the firesJan 15, 2021
Season 3: Episode 2, Built To Win, with Annette Franz
Neal Topf is proud, and a little bit fanboying, to welcome back to the podcast the esteemed author Annette Franz.
Following on from the success of Annette's first book, "Customer Understanding", Annette's second book, "Built To Win", promises to reshape how companies and individuals look at employee experience and the difference between customer-centric vs customer focus.
Annette takes Neal on a whirlwind tour of the book, she touches on the 10 principles that help change the culture, why changing culture is hard and how can you measure culture.
We also get to hear a bit about what drives Annette, why did she want to write this book, what was her why.
All of the above, and more, are discussed in the podcast. Download to find out more!
Season 3 : Episode 1 - ”Punk XL” with Adrian Swinscoe
Happy New Year to all our listeners at Fireside Chats Without The Fires, and thank you all for the support for the podcast. As we enter our second year (yes, second!!), we are amazed to be starting the year with a simply outstanding guest.
Adrian Swinscoe, the author of Punk CX, joins Neal to talk about his latest book, Punk XL.
Punk XL does the entire CX community a solid by creating this creative masterpiece (yes, masterpiece) of tracks that make us think/re-think how we set our customer-facing organizations up to succeed. Ever heard of rEcIpe? HIPPO? Proto-WTF-col? Each of these explained on video and sound by author extraordinaire, Adrian Swinscoe
Spotlight on the Business of CX with Amanda Malach
Amanda Malach joins Neal Topf on today’s episode of #spotlightonthebusinessofcx. In the limited podcast series, Fireside side chats without the fires brings together thought leaders and experts from the world of investment and finance to share their knowledge on how important it is to align any CX projects to the company’s bottom-line.
Amanda Malach is one such expert. She shares her thoughts on how you can make the CFO your BFF. Through some simple to use strategies that anyone can put in place today, Amanda demonstrates what are CFO’s looking for when it comes to CX. Amanda shares what annoys CFO’s and how to get into their minds, so that you know what they are thinking. This technique is extremely helpful when you are thinking about pitching your latest and greatest CX idea! Amanda discusses with Neal which metrics the CFO cares about (we won’t spoil this), what time to cash means and why that is important to the CFOs. As the podcast draws to a close, Amanda takes a look into her crystal ball for 2022, and gives some thoughts as to what may be happening in the very near futuSpotlight on the Business of CX with David Koning and Robert Bamberger from Baird
David Koning and Robert Bamberger from Baird are back from a third episode focusing on the business side of CX.
Hosted by Neal Topf, the limited podcast series aims to bring a clearer understanding of the impacts that positive CX has on business, from an investment and financial standpoint.
On this episode, David and Robert talk about the insights from Bairds Q3 survey results about 2022 in the BPO space, and the potential impact that wage inflation may have on pricing. They also discuss the performance of TaskUs, TELUS and Accenture, and how these three companies are bucking the trend and showing growth in Q3 and what that means for 2022.
The panel also discuss digital channels, pre and post COVID, the difference between value and value companies and Robby shares his experience of Curb Mobility.
Spotlight on the Business of CX - Featuring Jessica Noble
Jessica Noble, MBA, CCXP, a long-time friend and supporter of Fireside Chats Without The Fires, joins Neal Topf today’s episode of “Spotlight on The Business Of CX”.
In this limited series of podcasts, Neal is joined by CX experts who look at how CX impacts the bottom line. Today, Jess and Neal talk candidly about a myriad of different topics related to this area.
Some of the questions that they answer include Is CX at a crisis point right now?, should businesses be focusing on niceness right now? and is does the person who is leading your CX have a strong business acumen? If not, is that really the right person to lead CX?
Jess shares her thoughts on how the return of CX must be seen in the bottom line, otherwise, what is the point of doing CX? What problem is CX solving and does that solve have a financial impact on the company? Jess also confronts the frequently asked question about adding new channels to the business. Her standard reply is, quite simply “Is it seamless and will they talk to each other?”.
Insightful, maybe a touch controversial but, ultimately, educational, this is a podcast that you do not want to miss!
Season 2 : Episode 35 - ”Customer Experience of the Rich and Famous” with Dr. Phil Klaus
Prof. Dr. Phil Klaus from the International University of Monaco is today's guest on the podcast.
Prof. Dr. Phil Klaus joins Neal to talk about his recently published article "What matters most to ultra-high-net-worth individuals?" The article, which is included on this link, explores what really does matter to those individuals who have everything? Do they have the same wants and needs as us mere mortals?
Dr. Klaus, with a passion that is very seldom seen, answers the above question, and more, in today's podcast. He explains what really matters to the uber-rich, why it matters and that a company's focus should be on post-purchase, rather than purchase itself, whether that's a yacht, airplane, assistance with financial wealth or a super-car.
One of the major take-aways from the podcast is Dr. Klaus's 4 Step framework for improving #CX, including such items as the importance of personal relationships and achieving consistency and saving time. As Dr. Klaus puts it, time is the currency of the future of CX and , while you can't delight a customer, you most certainly can delight your company to bankruptcy (you heard those two golden nuggets here first!.)
Dr. Klaus also has a special call out for Christopher Brooks, and his world with the #CXWG2021.
Prof. Dr. Phil Klaus's studies: https://bit.ly/3pGQipM
Season 2 : Episode 34 - ”It Depends Trap” with Jessica Noble
Fireside Chats Without the Fires is thrilled to welcome back to the podcast, the talented Jessica Noble to talk about her chapter from the CX 3 book, “It Depends Trap”.
Jessica chats to Neal about how a cooperate event several years ago highlighted an issue of inconsistency, or, as Jessica likes to call it, “It Depends Trap”. The Trap, as Jessica tells it, is when a customer receives poor experience because they “called in on a Monday”, therefore, IT DEPENDS when a customer calls in to receive good experience.
Hear from Jessica about tackling “It Depends Trap” can have a positive impact on customer retention, employee experience, reduce costs and have a positive impact on the bottom line. One of the tools that Jessica uses to do this very thing is something called “The 5 Why’s”, how by asking WHY 5 times can help identify issues that are causing pain for the customer. As always, Jessica’s enthusiasm for this topic knows no bounds, and, if you or your business find yourselves in the “It Depends Trap”, then give this a listen.
Season 2 : Episode 33 - ”Seeing through the CX Smoke” with David Wales
David Wales, author the chapter “Seeing Through the Smoke” from the CX3 book, is the guest on the podcast.
David’s fire service background may not be one that people usually associate with customer experience, however, as he explains to Neal, his experience in this field has given David and unique view into CX.
David shares how the Fire Service is learning to include cx in their roles, and that there is a place for voice of the customer, honestly, who would have thought that? Through his stories, David shines a light on how, on occasion, what we think people will do vs what they will actual do is poles apart (not that it’s a bad thing at all), and, in one story, how listening to a fire victim opened a whole different avenue in dealing with the public. To end the podcast, David poses the question as to whether the fact that streaming services, such as Netflix (please tag) is a good thing? Does it allow companies to see us as individuals or as pigeonholed into certain boxes?
Spotlight on the Business of CX Episode 2 : Featuring David Koning and Robert Bamberger
Episode 2 of the spotlight on the business of CX see David Koning and Robby Bamberger from Baird share their knowledge and expertise regarding how CX impacts investment opportunities for customers and revenue for brands and companies.
Today, they talk about three large events that have happened since the first episode. These events are the acquisition of Sykes by Sitel, Task Us performance since their IPO, and the second offering of Telus.
David and Robby discuss with Neal the acceleration of growth within CX, especially on A.I, where such things as content moderation are playing a more significant role. The projection is that AI will grow by 20% over the upcoming years, and stats, such as 70% of consumers under 25 prefer A.I. back up that protection. To learn more, please click on the link and download the PDF. Do not forget to sign up for the Baird monthly newsletter, where you will find out more about what is happening in this space.
Pdf link: https://baird.bluematrix.com/docs/pdf/f0928985-1695-4927-8822-4da1384ccb04.pdf
Season 2 : Episode 32 - ”Customer Experience 3: The Author of Authors” with Naeem Arif
Naeem shares how the customer experience books series (now up to 3, with number 4 in the works), started. He explains how he was able to pull together an amazing list of CX thought leaders and visionaries together and have them all share their stories and insights on how CX can be improved, regardless of the industry.
This is an insightful listen, regardless if you have read the Customer Experience 3 book or not, for anyone who is looking to make a change in CX, for the better. Naeem, we salute you!
Season 2 : Episode 31 - ”CX Poetry” with Adrian Swinscoe
Adrian Swinscoe, the author of PUNK CX, is today’s guest on the podcast.
Adrian shines a light on the backstory of the PUNK CX book, and how, over a few drinks in a bar, the idea came to him. He passionately explains what being a CX Punk in today’s CX World means and why it’s important to “shake the tree”.
Adrian is very clear that the book is not the answer is all the challenges that exist within CX today, more so that the whole premise of the book is to encourage people to do better work. As Adrian puts it, “Following the crowd won’t get you to number 1. Are you an artist, or are you colouring in”
Lastly, Adrian points out how being brilliant at the basics will have a profound impact on your customers, that they will feel safe and sound with you and your company.
There is so much insight and intelligence that Adrian shares on this episode, it will get you and your company thinking about how CX is being run in your company.
”Emerging Horizons” with Lt. Col. Waldo Waldman
Season 2 : Episode 30 - ”We‘re Doing CX Wrong, and How to Get it Right” with Nicholas Zeisler
Nicholas starts by sharing why it's important to question everything, even starting by asking "what do you mean, we are doing CX wrong?" "what does it mean to be a customer-centric company?"
We also hear why aligning data to numbers is fraught with peril and that certain CX KPIs do not have a direct impact on the business and its bottom line. To help address this disconnect, Nicholas gives his insights and thoughts a new metric that should help close these gaps.
The metric is called "Brand Alignment Score and aims to improve the customer experience vs the companies brand values. in essence, this will help measure how well the business is doing vs what the business said it would be doing! Powerful stuff from Nicholas, and, to be honest, would you expect anything less?
Spotlight on the Business of CX Episode 1 : Featuring David Koning and Robert Bamberger
Joining Neal in these sessions will be David Koning and Robby Bamberger, two investment managers who specialize in the impact that CX has on businesses and then, using their knowledge, make suggestions on where companies and private investors should put their money.
On today's show, Dave and Robby share some current market trends that they are seeing, the story of TaskUs and some hints and tips on what to look at when considering investing.
www.surveymonkey.com/r/YSH9Q3C - Enter the link to become a part of the Baird BPO Distribution and get involved in our quarterly survey!
Season 2 : Episode 29 - ”CX Turds on the Table” with Rishad Tobaccowala
Season 2 : Episode 28 - ”CX Fandom” with James Dodkins
James takes us on his ongoing journey into this world. He shares what is meant by a proximity zone, and how the internet has changed this. James also talks about what is CX, really. Is a bundling of moments that then become memories for customers, and those memories create the relationship that companies have with their customers.
Insightful, knowledgeable, and entertaining, what more would you expect from #CXrockstar? There is so much to unpack in this episode that we have invited James back to spend more time with us!!
Season 2 : Episode 27 - "Why Diversify your CX Strategy" with Mandisa Makubalo
Season 2 : Episode 26 - "CX Stakeholder Buy-in" with Katie Stabler
Katie starts with how to improve CX Stakeholder buy-in and that one of the very first steps to take is to get everyone aligned on what CX means to the business. The whole business needs to focus and agree on what CX looks like across the board and, by having that as a starting point, it reduces the chances of traction and enthusiasm for CX waning over time. Katie also discusses how important it is to have the right people and the right team in place to drive this through. Lastly, in Katie's words, you have to "make your own bed" first before you start this journey.
To find out more about CX Stakeholder buy-in and how you and your business can improve on it, download this podcast from your usual podcast platforms and let us know what you think of Katie's comments.
Season 2 : Episode 25 - "The Past, Present, Future of CX Part 2" with Megan Burns
In today's episode, Megan discusses how companies "can suck less", and, with a degree of clarity rarely heard, explains the stages of CX that she has witnessed since 2006. Megan explains why in today's CX world, it's important for companies to "major in experience, minor in products" (sounds counterintuitive, right?), aim to be consistently good and strategically excellent and, how, when done correctly, customers cannot tell the difference between real-life agents and AI.
Strap yourself in for a thrilling, insightful and, emotive listen.
Season 2 : Episode 24 - "Why Do Bonuses for NPS Scores Seem Wise?" with Jim Tincher
Neal and Paul are thrilled to welcome back Jim Tincher onto the Fireside Chats Without The Fires podcast. Jim recently published an article here (https://bit.ly/3rsQKHa) focusing on whether incentives to drive NPS are good or bad. Jim shares stories on how some companies have used incentives to drive performance and behaviors so that they do “suck less”. Jim explains when is a good time to ask for a survey, does an NPS score actually predicts anything, and do “golden questions” to measure NPS exist and, please, do not miss the story about the “5 ballons…” Engaging, thoughtful, and passionate, Jim’s a true expert in his field. If you want to learn more about NPS and when is a good time to use QA scores and when is not, then tune in and learn more.
Season 2 : Episode 21 - CX Quality Management with Marc Karschies
Marc shares his in-depth knowledge and passion for quality and explains how quality has a different meaning for different people and departments. Marc discusses what is the definition of quality (is it defined by the user?) and what really is "good" quality?
Neal and Marc also discuss how quality service management is equal to customer experience management because customer experience is what the customer feels...
Insightful, passionate, and knowledgeable, Marc Karschies enthusiasm of quality is second to none.
CX World Games with Professor Dr. Phil Klaus
Christopher Brooks gives his weekly update on The Games, along with the fact that there are still some last-minute places available for players and the unique news regarding two teams. You need to tune in to hear more!!
CX Games with Adrian Swinscoe
On today's podcast hear from Adrian Swinscoe. Adrian will share how and why he got involved in the CXWG, what they mean to him, and what he expects to see from the teams involved.
Tune in to find out more!
Season 2 : Episode 20 - Agile CX Implementation with Olga Potaptseva
One of the most commonly used (yet maybe little understood) phrases in today's business world is "Let's use Agile project management", however, how many of us out there really know what it means?
Olga, in her very humble and down-to-earth manner, walks and talks Neal and Paul through exactly what Agile is, how it works, what it isn't (it's not 9 women giving birth to one baby in 1 month) and the 4 skills needed. Without going into too much detail here (you have to tune in to find out more), Olga' explains how using Agile focuses on the ability to move quickly and easily, the ability to transform by doing small things in short phases, ensuring that projects are linked to companies goals and employee experience, and, possibly more importantly, turning CX protects into reality.
Season 2 : Episode 22 - "So Long for Now" with Steve Sedlak
Steve also discusses how, since the 1980s, the CX world has been on a journey of self-discovery, with key metrics being labeled differently and how now, as businesses start to come out of the pandemic, is the best time to be involved in CX.
In a highly personal interview, Steve explains the important role that SOCAP played in his professional and personal journey. With deal feeling, Steve shares how the relationships he built in SOCAP and the ability to give back to the community really shaped him as a person.
Season 2 Episode 19 - "Are you LISTENING to the whole picture?" with Nick Lygo-Baker
Nick, or the CX Mechanic as he is also known by, shares his experience with CX and how he came to understand the need for business to use and adhere to something that he calls "Listening Posts". There are five different types of "Listening Posts", each performing a different function within the business.
They are:-
Voice of the employee
Voice of the customer
Voice of the service
Voice of the process
Voice of the market
And Nick shares the functions that each of these performs, and why it's important for companies to have all 5.
CX Games with Mandisa Makubalo
Mandisa Makubalo is nothing short of an inspiration. From her tireless efforts to help women in South Africa getting back into work, to being a Founder Member of Women in CX, anything that Mandisa touches turns to gold!
Mandisa shares her story of a CXWG2021 captain, why she got involved, and what the games mean to her. As well as Mandisa, Christopher Brooks joins Neal to share provide the most up-to-date information regarding the Games. You know you should tune in to find out more...
Season 2 : Episode 18 - "Experiences don't matter, Memories do" with Gustavo Imhof
Discussing his chapter for the book, Gustavo talks about what the 15 memorable variables are, the 6 quick wins, and actually, what matters the most is the outcome for customers rather than the experience.
As you can tell, Gustavo is not scared to go against popular opinion, which makes today's podcast a must-listen.
CX Games with Annika Björck
Annika also shares why she thinks her team will win.....(Justin Robbins, James Dodkins, Sharon Boyd, are you listening?.
Annika and Neal were both surprised when a special guest joined them with a special announcement. Tune in to find out more...
Season 2 : Episode 16.9 - CX Goalkeeper - Enablers, Irritants, and Value with Gregorio Uglioni
As he is also known, Gregorio, or "CX Goalkeeper" talks about his chapter in the book that focuses on a matrix called "Value/Irritant Matrix". Gregorio explains how the matrix (made famous in the Bill Price book, "The best service is no service"), should be used by companies to create a frictionless experience for their customers.
We also hear about the 3 enablers, Data, Technology, and Human Beings, and the roles that each of these plays in creating customer experience.
CX Games with Justin Robbins
As captain of the CX Distributors, Justin shares his Captain's story. What the games mean to him, why he is involved in the games, and what he expects to see (and is getting), from his team.
Season 2 : Episode 14 - Leading the Customer Experience with Brad Cleveland (PART 2)
(PART 2)
Best-selling author, Brad Cleveland joins the podcast today to discuss his new book, "Leading The Customer Experience".
During today's podcast with Neal Topf and Paul Catherall, listen to Brad as he explains who (in his opinion) owns customer experience (will this came as a surprise that it's everyone?), how important having a vision is and why making the mundane interesting is the latest "buzz phrase" but carries weight and importance.
Brad provides some refreshing insights regarding how a longer AHT may actually improve customer experience (yes, how many contact center people are turning away right now?), the need to culture a business culture around customer experience, and why more and more business are understanding that employee engagement is the foundation of customer experience.
In summary, as Brad says "Get the principles in place, and the rest will go away.
Season 2 Episode 15 - "Experience the experience!" with Bob Azman
Bob's chapter in the book is all about the experience and, during the podcast, Bob shares some real-life ideas and suggestions on how to improve the experience as well as common pitfalls to avoid. Using the mantra "stable yourself to the ticket", Bob explains how powerful it is to put yourself in the customers' shoes and explains why trying to understand what it's like to do business with yourself forms the cornerstone for a successful customer experience. With his usual insights and skill, Bob delivers a series of stories (from someone asking if they should build a bulldozer to understanding that there is no difference between B2C and B2C customer experience) that takes what could be a complex topic into an easy to follow guide.
CX Games with Sharon Boyd and James Dodkins
Today, Neal and Paul are thrilled to welcoming returning captain James Dodkins and returning, not as a player this time, but as a captain, Sharon Boyd.
Both Sharon and James share what the game means to them, why they are returning this year, and what to expect from the games themselves
CX Games with Jessica Noble
Fireside Chats WIthout The Fires is thrilled to be part of the amazing #CXWG2021. Over the course of the games, Neal and Paul will be joined by judges, captains, and players of the teams.
Today's guest is Judge (drum roll please....) Jessica Noble. Jessica explains what the CX games mean to her, why one of the challenges is very close to her heart and, also, shares some top tips for the players taking part...(I think I have said too much already, tune in to find out more...)
LinkedIn Live Event to Support AMA Ignite Conference with Megan Burns
Fireside Chats without the fires is extremely proud to be able to support AMA Ignite conference. In a limited series of podcasts, the team and keynote speakers from the conference share their CX expertise and give a little taste of what they will be talking about. On our last episode for this feature, please welcome Megan Burns!
Season 2 : Episode 14 - Leading the Customer Experience with Brad Cleveland
Best-selling author, Brad Cleveland joins the podcast today to discuss his new book, "Leading The Customer Experience". During today's podcast, listen to Brad as he explains who (in his opinion) owns customer experience (will this came as a surprise that it's everyone?), how important having a vision is and why making the mundane interesting is the latest "buzz phrase" but carries weight and importance. Brad provides some refreshing insights regarding how a longer AHT may actually improve customer experience (yes, how many contact center people are turning away right now?), the need to culture a business culture around customer experience, and why more and more business are understanding that employee engagement is the foundation of customer experience. In summary, as Brad says "Get the principles in place, and the rest will go away.
Season 2 : Episode 13 -4 Tools for Successful Employee Engagement with Francesca Tempestini
Fireside Chats Without The Fires continues its focus on CX 3 with Francesca Tempestini joining Neal and Paul for today's recording. Francesca's chapter in the book focused on tools that should be used for employee engagement. These tools are:- Set Rules Provide Tools Lead by examples Reward. - NOT CASH!! Francesca, who really is the living embodiment of employee engagement, explains, in detail, what each of the tools means and provides helpful, real-life tips on how to implement them in your business today.
CX World Games with Christopher Brooks
Season 2 : Episode 12 - Platforms, Communities and Customer Experience with Anna Noakes Schulze
In today's podcast, Anne explains how the likes of Amazon, Uber, Airbnb, and BlaBlaCar, platform companies, continue to grow in the current environment, resulting in nearly 60% of all unicorn companies being platform companies.
Anna talks about these type of companies are building different "pillars" of trust, such as drivers and passengers ratings, how the only three choices left for companies today when it comes to platforms, is to build/buy or join, you cannot ignore and that the factors that make a platform successful are value/usability and trust.
LinkedIn Live Event to Support AMA Ignite Conference with Jim Tincher
In a limited series of podcasts, the team and keynote speakers from the conference share their CX expertise and give a little taste of what they will be talking about. Next up is Jim Tincher!
Season 2 : Episode 11 - Psychological Safety in CX with Sheri Kendall
Sheri shares the work of Dr. Timothy Clark and his book "The 4 stages of Psychological safety", and how each stage is needed so that employees feel safe and cared for. As Sheri says "We won't get an agent to care for our customers if they don't feel cared for". In this poignant podcast, Neal, Paul, and Sheri discuss how customer service agents are actually "agents of peace", how being "banished from a tribe can feel worse than a death penalty and why, above all else, kindness really matters.
LinkedIn Live Event to Support AMA Ignite Conference with Rishad Tobaccowala
In a limited series of podcasts, the team and keynote speakers from the conference share their CX expertise and give a little taste of what they will be talking about. First up is Rishad Tobaccowala.
Season 2 : Episode 10 - "Customer Experience Guarantees - Jeff Toister, Author of The Guaranteed Customer Experience"
Season 2 : Episode 9 - "Unlocking Creativity Through CX Play" with Sirte Pihlaja
Sirte explains the huge benefits of LSP, how using LSP correctly is like putting money in the bank, achieving more with less, and the benefit of giving your brain a hand (all of these real quotes from the podcast). The best way to sum up today's podcast is "Play is not the opposite of work, boredom is".
Don't forget to go purchase your copy of the Customer Experience 3 book that was launched today, to gather more insights and knowledge from Sirte and her co-authors.
Season 2 : Episode 8 - "It's Like This...Stop NPS, Stop KPIs" with Nicholas Zeisler
Nicholas, with great enthusiasm and passion, shares why companies shouldn't be using score data, rather, should be using something called "amplification data", and why asking the customers "What do we suck at?" is far more powerful than an NPS score.
If you are ready to enter the new world of CX, then this podcast is most definitely for you!
Season 2 : Episode 7 - "Customer Rage" with John Goodman
Insightful, packed with relevant information, and easy to understand, John (and the report) shares with Neal and Paul how factors impacting customer rage have changed over the years and what opportunities currently exist to minimize these pain-points.
To read and download the report, please click on this link: www.customercaremc.com/insights/national-customer-rage-study/
Season 2 : Episode 6 - "Mapping Experiences for CX" with Jim Kilbach
With real passion and enthusiasm, Jim explains the importance that mapping plays in today's world, how important it is that all departments are involved in creating maps and how it is possible to map employment engagement to customer engagement, driving up both key metrics.
Season 2 : Episode 5 - "“CX Disruption; The Disruption Mindset” with Charlene Li
Charlene will share how the famous Wayne Gretzky saying "Don't stake to where the puck is, stake to where the puck is going to be" is fast becoming the "motto" of the companies who want to love their current and, as well as their future customers as well as the importance of creating, implementing and using a customer empathy map.
Season 2 : Episode 4 - "Jenny has another Question" with Jenny Dempsey
The second part of the podcast focus on the recent explosion of CX-related jobs, Jenny, in her own unique way, lifts the lid on why this is happening and possible future impacts.
Energetic, caring and just a great person, tune in to Jenny Dempsey on Fireside Chats without the fires and you will not be disappointed