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The Geek In Review

The Geek In Review

By Greg Lambert & Marlene Gebauer

Welcome to The Geek in Review, where podcast hosts, Marlene Gebauer and Greg Lambert discuss innovation and creativity in legal profession.
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Ian McDougall on LexisNexis' Rule of Law Foundation

The Geek In ReviewAug 06, 2019

00:00
45:27
Love and Legal Tech: Karen Dunn Skinner and David Skinner of Gimbal Consulting

Love and Legal Tech: Karen Dunn Skinner and David Skinner of Gimbal Consulting

In the latest episode of "The Geek in Review," hosts Greg Lambert and Marlene Gebauer sat down with Karen Dunn Skinner and David Skinner, the dynamic duo behind Gimbal Consulting. This episode, part of the "Love & Legal Tech" mini-series, explores the professional and personal journey of Karen and David, who have carved a niche in the legal tech industry by helping lawyers build practices they love, ensuring they also have time to enjoy life outside work.

Karen and David shared their fascinating backstory, from meeting in law school to their adventures in Budapest, Hungary, and beyond. These experiences not only enriched their personal lives but also shaped their professional paths, leading to the inception of Gimbal Consulting. Their work focuses on adapting Lean and Lean Six Sigma methodologies to the legal profession, aiming to streamline lawyers' practices for increased productivity and profitability.

Working together has its unique set of challenges and rewards, as the Skinners highlighted. Their collaboration is built on a deep understanding and mutual respect for each other's strengths and viewpoints, even when they differ. This synergy has allowed them to navigate their professional endeavors successfully while maintaining a strong personal relationship.

The episode also delves into the practicalities and philosophies that guide Karen and David's work-life integration. They emphasized the importance of establishing routines that cater to both their professional and personal needs, such as their morning meetings in the hot tub, which blend work planning with relaxation.

For couples considering a similar path, Karen and David offered sage advice: embrace the journey with open hearts and minds, acknowledging that while working with your spouse can be challenging, it can also be incredibly rewarding. Their story is a testament to the power of partnership in both love and legal tech.

Listeners of "The Geek in Review" will find this episode not only inspiring but also filled with practical insights into making a significant impact in the legal tech space while nurturing a fulfilling personal life.

Listen on mobile platforms:  

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Contact Us

Twitter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@gebauerm⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, or ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@glambert
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Email: geekinreviewpodcast@gmail.com
Music: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jerry David DeCicca⁠⁠⁠⁠ and Eve Searls


⁠⁠⁠⁠Transcript

Mar 26, 202446:32
Love and Legal Tech - Kate Boyd and Ryan McClead of Sente Advisors

Love and Legal Tech - Kate Boyd and Ryan McClead of Sente Advisors

In this episode of "The Geek in Review" podcast, co-hosts Greg Lambert and Marlene Gebauer interview Ryan McClead and Kate Boyd, the CEO and COO of Sente Advisors, respectively, as part of their "Love and Legal Tech" series. The interview delves into the couple's history in the legal technology space, their experience working together, and the challenges and benefits of being in a relationship while also being colleagues.

Ryan and Kate share their extensive backgrounds in legal technology, with Ryan starting in the industry in 2003 and eventually becoming the head of innovation at a law firm, while Kate began her career as an intern at a law firm and later transitioned to the vendor side, working for companies such as HighQ, Compliance HR, and Kira Systems. The couple met while working together at HighQ and became good friends before starting their own companies in 2018 and eventually dating.

When discussing the best aspects of working together, Kate mentions the empathy and understanding they have for each other's work habits and the ability to help one another when stuck on a problem. Ryan adds that working together eliminates the need to "download" their workdays to each other every night, as they are already aware of what the other is dealing with. However, they also acknowledge the challenge of not letting work consume their entire lives and the importance of setting aside time for non-work activities.

The couple shares their experiences with reactions from others when they reveal that they work together, ranging from surprise to curiosity. They also discuss how they handle disagreements within their company, emphasizing the value of their different perspectives and the trust they have built in each other's problem-solving abilities.

When asked about the interesting projects they are currently working on, Ryan and Kate highlight their involvement in AI-related projects, product launches, and technology evaluations for clients. They also offer advice for couples considering working together, stressing the importance of maintaining separate work and personal personas, knowing each other's strengths, and nurturing professional friendships outside of their shared work life.

 

Listen on mobile platforms:  

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Twitter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@gebauerm⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, or ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@glambert
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Email: geekinreviewpodcast@gmail.com
Music: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jerry David DeCicca⁠⁠⁠⁠ and Eve Searls

⁠⁠⁠⁠Transcript

Mar 19, 202425:59
Kelly Griswold of Onna on the Fundamental Investments Needed in Data Management

Kelly Griswold of Onna on the Fundamental Investments Needed in Data Management

In this episode of The Geek in Review podcast, hosts Marlene Gebauer and Greg Lambert wrap up their series of interviews from the LegalWeek 2024 conference in New York with a conversation with Kelly Griswold, CEO of Onna. Kelly shares her objectives for attending the conference, which include interacting with customers and partners, staying on top of industry trends and innovations, and bringing her remote team together to build community.


Kelly provides an overview of Onna, explaining that the company primarily serves enterprise and corporate clients by managing their unstructured data with a focus on internal collaboration apps. Onna collects and integrates with various data sources to establish live connectivity and data transformation, making the data ready for searching and discovery to power downstream workflows such as litigation requests, early case assessment, and investigations. Kelly emphasizes the importance of data management as a necessary enabler for future innovations in the legal tech space.


The conversation touches on the challenges of managing data in the enterprise and how Onna helps clients improve their processes. Kelly explains that Onna's approach involves helping enterprises build a data foundation that is accessible when needed, allowing them to skip several steps in the traditional linear workflow. This value proposition is particularly appealing to enterprises looking to avoid downstream costs by having better visibility and control over their data.


Kelly also discusses the impact of generative AI on the legal industry, noting that while there is a lot of buzz around the technology, companies are realizing the importance of getting their data in order before diving into experimentation and implementation. She believes that the awareness brought by the hype around generative AI is driving companies to make fundamental investments in data management.


Looking to the future, Kelly shares her crystal ball prediction for the next 5-10 years, envisioning a world where natural language communication and automation will transform the way legal workflows are handled. She imagines a scenario where drafting a contract could be done through verbal communication and a system that asks questions and generates the agreement, reducing the need for manual, hands-on work.

Listen on mobile platforms:  ⁠⁠⁠⁠Apple Podcasts⁠⁠⁠⁠ |  ⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify⁠⁠⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠ 

Contact Us: 

Twitter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@gebauerm⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, or ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@glambert
⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Threads: @glambertpod or @gebauerm66
Email: geekinreviewpodcast@gmail.com
Music: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jerry David DeCicca

Mar 14, 202418:27
Love and Legal Tech - Jillian Bommarito and Michael Bommarito of 273 Ventures

Love and Legal Tech - Jillian Bommarito and Michael Bommarito of 273 Ventures

In this week's episode of "The Geek in Review" podcast, co-hosts Greg Lambert and Marlene Gebauer interview Michael Bommarito and Jill Bommarito, the CEO and Chief Risk Officer of 273 Ventures, respectively. The couple, who have been together since high school, share their experiences working together in the legal technology space.

Michael and Jill discuss the advantages and challenges of working closely together in the same organization. They highlight the benefits of being able to bounce ideas off each other in real-time and the ability to seamlessly cover for one another when family responsibilities arise. However, they also acknowledge the lack of boundaries between work and home life, which can be both a blessing and a curse.

The Bommaritos also delve into their work at 273 Ventures, particularly their focus on developing Large Language Models (LLMs) with a clean data approach. Jill, one of the world's first certified AI auditors, brings her expertise in compliance and risk management to ensure that the models are built ethically and in accordance with legal standards. Michael shares his excitement about the potential applications of their LLMs, such as automating due diligence processes and drafting contract revisions based on identified risks.

When asked about the reactions they receive from others regarding working together, the couple admits that most people express sympathy and curiosity about how they manage to do it successfully. They attribute their success to their long history together and the shared experiences they have had, both personally and professionally.

Finally, the Bommaritos offer advice to other couples considering working in the same field or business. They emphasize the importance of being certain that both partners are fully committed to the idea, as it can be an all-consuming experience. They also stress the significance of knowing each other well before embarking on such a venture, as a strong foundation is crucial for navigating the challenges that come with working closely together.

 

Twitter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@gebauerm⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, or ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@glambert
⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Threads: @glambertpod or @gebauerm66
Email: geekinreviewpodcast@gmail.com
Music: 
⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jerry David DeCicca⁠⁠⁠⁠ and Eve Searls

Transcript

Mar 12, 202435:06
LegalWeek 2024 Special Part Five - Dan Lear from LegalTrack

LegalWeek 2024 Special Part Five - Dan Lear from LegalTrack

In this episode of "The Geek in Review," co-hosts Greg Lambert and Marlene Gebauer engage with Dan Lear, VP of Partnerships at InfoTrack, capturing insights from the latest LegalWeek 2024 conference. Lear shares his observations on the evolving landscape of legal technology, noting the increased diversity of technologies present at the conference compared to previous years. He highlights a shift from a narrow focus on eDiscovery to a broader array of legal tech solutions, indicating a significant expansion in the sector's innovation and investment interest.

Dan Lear delves into the transformative impact of artificial intelligence (AI) in the legal industry. While AI dominated previous discussions with a mix of fear and fascination, Lear suggests the narrative is shifting towards practical integration and utility. The conversation reflects on the cyclical hype surrounding AI, with speculation on whether the legal sector has reached or surpassed its peak AI moment. Lear posits that the real value of AI will unfold as it becomes more embedded in legal workflows, transforming efficiency rather than replacing legal professionals outright.

InfoTrack's role and offerings in the legal tech space receive a detailed exploration. Lear explains how InfoTrack serves primarily small to medium-sized law firms, facilitating more efficient litigation support through integrated cloud-based solutions. He underscores the challenge and opportunity in educating and transitioning firms to embrace digital practices for docketing and court filings, emphasizing InfoTrack's mission to expand electronic access to court services for the betterment of legal accessibility and efficiency.

Lear further discusses the demands and dynamics of InfoTrack's clientele, identifying a trend towards specialization and business acumen within law firms. He predicts that technology will play a pivotal role in enabling firms to succeed by enhancing client acquisition, service delivery, and operational efficiency. The conversation underscores a broader industry evolution towards recognizing and leveraging technology not just for the sake of innovation, but as a strategic asset to differentiate and thrive in a competitive landscape.

Concluding the episode, Lear reflects on the future trajectory of the legal industry and InfoTrack's place within it. He envisions a legal sector increasingly shaped by technological advancements, where AI and digital platforms streamline processes and redefine the nature of legal work. Through Lear's insights, the episode offers a compelling snapshot of the current state and exciting prospects of legal technology, highlighting the continuous journey towards more accessible, efficient, and innovative legal services.

 

Twitter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@gebauerm⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, or ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@glambert
⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Threads: @glambertpod or @gebauerm66
Email: geekinreviewpodcast@gmail.com
Music: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jerry David DeCicca⁠⁠⁠⁠ and Eve Searls

Listen on mobile platforms:  

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Contact Us: Transcript:

Mar 07, 202426:17
Love and Legal Tech - Chris Ford and Nikki Shaver of Legal Technology Hub

Love and Legal Tech - Chris Ford and Nikki Shaver of Legal Technology Hub

In the fourth round of interview of "The Geek in Review" podcast's mini-series "Love & Legal Tech," hosts Greg Lambert and Marlene Gebauer chat with Chris Ford and Nikki Shaver, the dynamic couple behind the Legal Technology Hub. Their project, conceived out of necessity and frustration with the lack of a single source of truth for legal technology solutions, has grown into a thriving business that categorizes and reviews over 2000 legal tech products, aiding law firms and corporate legal departments in navigating the vast landscape of available technologies. Their story begins in Australia, where Chris and Nikki first connected through a dating site, a testament to their adventurous spirits and willingness to embrace new technologies, even in their personal lives. This spirit of innovation and exploration carried over into their professional lives when they decided to tackle the challenge of creating a centralized platform for legal technology solutions during the pandemic. Their complementary skills in marketing, legal tech, and innovation have been crucial to their success, demonstrating the power of collaboration and mutual respect in both business and personal relationships. Working together presents its challenges, notably in balancing professional demands with family life, as they navigate attending the same industry events while ensuring the wellbeing of their two children. Yet, it's clear that their partnership strengthens both their business and their relationship, as they share a common goal and a deep understanding of each other's strengths. Chris and Nikki's journey is a shining example for other couples in the legal tech industry, emphasizing the importance of shared vision, respect for each other's expertise, and the willingness to support one another's ideas, no matter how ambitious. Their advice for other couples looking to work together in the industry is to focus on their common goals and leverage their unique strengths, ensuring that their partnership is both professionally rewarding and personally fulfilling. Their dedication to innovation, coupled with their strong relationship, showcases the potential for couples to make significant contributions to the legal tech industry while building a life together.

Listen on mobile platforms:  ⁠⁠⁠⁠Apple Podcasts⁠⁠⁠⁠ |  ⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify⁠⁠⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠

Contact Us: 

Twitter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@gebauerm⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, or ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@glambert
⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Threads: @glambertpod or @gebauerm66
Email: geekinreviewpodcast@gmail.com
Music: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jerry David DeCicca⁠⁠⁠⁠ and Eve Searls⁠

⁠Transcript

Mar 05, 202431:36
Pablo Arredondo on the One-Year Anniversary of CoCounsel

Pablo Arredondo on the One-Year Anniversary of CoCounsel

In this episode of "The Geek in Review," hosts Greg Lambert and Marlene Gebauer celebrate the one-year anniversary of CoCounsel, the pioneering Generative AI Legal Research Tool launched by CaseText. They are joined by Pablo Arredondo, Vice President of CoCounsel at Thomson Reuters and co-founder of CaseText, to discuss the significant strides and challenges faced in developing and implementing generative AI in legal research. Pablo shares insights into the early days of exploring generative AI and the transformative potential it held for overcoming the limitations of traditional keyword-based search methods in legal research.

The conversation delves into the technical and strategic journey of bringing CoCounsel to market, highlighting the team's rapid pivot to leverage GPT-4 technology and the collaborative effort that ensured its successful launch. Pablo emphasizes the importance of quality control, trust, and addressing the nuanced requirements of legal research to ensure that CoCounsel met the high expectations of its users, including law librarians and legal professionals.

Pablo also reflects on the broader implications of generative AI for the legal industry, including the rapid adoption by law firms and legal departments seeking to leverage this technology to enhance their research capabilities and workflow efficiencies. The discussion touches on the ongoing challenges and opportunities presented by generative AI, such as regulatory considerations, ethical concerns, and the need for continuous education and adaptation within the legal profession.

The acquisition of CaseText by Thomson Reuters is discussed, with Pablo sharing his perspective on the strategic move and its potential to further expand and enhance CoCounsel's capabilities and reach. He highlights the synergy between CaseText's innovative approach and Thomson Reuters' extensive resources and market presence, which together aim to drive the next wave of advancements in legal technology and research tools.

Finally, the episode explores future directions for generative AI in legal research, including the expansion of CoCounsel's capabilities to encompass a wider range of legal tasks and its potential to transform the practice of law. Pablo's enthusiasm for the possibilities ahead underscores the significant impact that generative AI is set to have on the legal industry, promising to revolutionize how legal professionals interact with information and conduct research.

 

Listen on mobile platforms:  ⁠⁠⁠⁠Apple Podcasts⁠⁠⁠⁠ |  ⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify⁠⁠⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠

Contact Us: 

Twitter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@gebauerm⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, or ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@glambert
⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Threads: @glambertpod or @gebauerm66
Email: geekinreviewpodcast@gmail.com
Music: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jerry David DeCicca⁠⁠⁠⁠ and Eve Searls⁠

⁠Transcript

Feb 29, 202441:28
Love and Legal Tech: Ab and Priti Saraswat

Love and Legal Tech: Ab and Priti Saraswat

In our third installment of Love and Legal Tech, we talk with Ab Saraswat and Priti Saraswat. Ab and Priti met while training to be barristers in the UK. They were on opposing debate teams, and Ab proposed within a year of meeting Priti. They have been married for almost a decade. Though they didn't originally intend to work together, they both ended up at legal tech company Litera for several years but in different roles. People were surprised to later learn they were married.

Currently, Ab is the Chief Revenue Officer at legal project management startup Lupl. Ab is also the podcast host at Fringe Legal. Priti is the Legal Tech Consulting Manager at Baker Hostetler's alternative legal services provider IncuBaker. Though their roles differ, being in the same industry allows them to bounce ideas off each other. However, the blurred lines between personal and professional lives can be challenging. They try not to talk about work on vacation.

Professionally, they handle disagreements through discussion and debate thanks to their backgrounds. They present their opinions but don't fight about them, often agreeing to disagree. Socially, they set expectations ahead of time for how long they’ll stay at events. They “divide and conquer” at conferences by networking separately but checking in.

The common reaction now is that it's cool they work in the same industry because they understand each other’s challenges. They want to stand on their own professionally, not just be known in relation to each other. Their advice to other couples considering working together is to focus on communication and keep an open mind when sharing opinions.

Listen on mobile platforms:  ⁠⁠⁠⁠Apple Podcasts⁠⁠⁠⁠ |  ⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify⁠⁠⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠

Contact Us: 

Twitter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@gebauerm⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, or ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@glambert
⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Threads: @glambertpod or @gebauerm66
Email: geekinreviewpodcast@gmail.com
Music: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jerry David DeCicca⁠⁠⁠⁠ and Eve Searls⁠

Transcript

 

Feb 27, 202435:51
LegalWeek 2024 Special Part Four: Joshua Lenon from Clio

LegalWeek 2024 Special Part Four: Joshua Lenon from Clio

In the latest episode of "The Geek in Review" podcast, co-hosts Greg Lambert and Marlene Gebauer continue their series of interviews from this year's LegalWeek conference by engaging with Joshua Lenon from Clio. As Clio's Lawyer in Residence, Lenon delves into the insights derived from the company's Legal Trends Report, emphasizing the data-driven analysis of law firm practices and trends. The report, which leverages aggregated anonymous usage data from tens of thousands of law firms using Clio, offers a unique perspective on the productivity, billing, and technological adoption within the legal industry, particularly among mid-sized law firms.

Lenon shares intriguing findings from the report, highlighting a significant increase in productivity, billable hours, and revenue across the industry over the past eight years. However, a closer examination of mid-sized law firms (defined as those with 20 to 200 lawyers) reveals disparities in matter handling and productivity gains compared to smaller firms. Lenon explains how mid-sized firms maintain a consistent workload per lawyer by adjusting the ratio of lawyers to non-lawyer timekeepers based on demand. This adaptability showcases the strategic management of resources within mid-sized firms to optimize efficiency and service delivery.

The discussion further explores the impact of financial technology (FinTech) on law firms' operational efficiency. Lenon illustrates how adopting new payment methods and technologies significantly improves firms' collection rates and client payment experiences. Specifically, mid-sized firms that embrace FinTech and client-centered approaches see notable improvements in their financial health, underscoring the importance of innovation in enhancing legal services delivery.

Lenon also introduces Clio Duo, an in-house AI tool designed to enhance law firms' access to and interaction with their own data. By providing a chat-based interface for exploring firm data, Clio Duo aims to streamline tasks and improve efficiency, allowing lawyers to focus on high-value work rather than administrative tasks. This development represents Clio's commitment to leveraging technology to address the evolving needs of the legal profession.

Lenon predicts some of the challenges and opportunities facing the legal profession, particularly in relation to artificial intelligence (AI) and document creation tools. He speculates on the limitations imposed by traditional word processing applications like Microsoft Word and suggests that the future will likely see a paradigm shift towards more interactive and multi-dimensional tools for legal work. This shift, Lenon argues, could dramatically enhance productivity by integrating AI more seamlessly into the legal drafting process, moving beyond the static, page-focused approach of current software.

Throughout the conversation, Lenon's insights underscore the dynamic interplay between technology and legal practice. As legal technology evolves, so too does the potential for law firms of all sizes to improve efficiency, client satisfaction, and ultimately, profitability. The episode illuminates the importance of data-driven decision-making and technological adaptation in the legal industry's future. By embracing these tools and insights, law firms can better navigate the challenges of the modern legal landscape, ensuring they remain competitive and responsive to their clients' needs.

Listen on mobile platforms:  ⁠⁠⁠⁠Apple Podcasts⁠⁠⁠⁠ |  ⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify⁠⁠⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠

 

Contact Us: 

Twitter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@gebauerm⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, or ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@glambert
⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Threads: @glambertpod or @gebauerm66
Email: geekinreviewpodcast@gmail.com
Music: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jerry David DeCicca⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Feb 22, 202422:35
Love and Legal Tech: Sonja Ebron and Debra Slone of Courtroom5

Love and Legal Tech: Sonja Ebron and Debra Slone of Courtroom5


In the latest episode of "The Geek in Review," Marlene Gebauer hosts a fascinating conversation with Sonja Ebron and Debra Slone, the dynamic couple behind Courtroom5, a pioneering startup in the Justice Tech space aimed at empowering pro se litigants. As part of the "Love & Legal Tech" series we discuss the personal and professional relationship that propels Courtroom5 forward, providing valuable insights into the intersection of love, partnership, and innovation in the legal tech industry.

Courtroom5 stands out in the Justice Tech sector by offering a unique platform designed to educate, encourage, and empower individuals representing themselves in court. Sonja, as CEO, orchestrates a broad range of responsibilities, from technical leadership to marketing efforts, while Debra, wielding her expertise as a PhD Librarian and CTO, focuses on managing the extensive content that forms the backbone of Courtroom5's service. Their combined efforts have earned Courtroom5 recognition and awards, underscoring the impact of their work on providing accessible legal support to those without formal legal representation.

The story of how Sonja and Debra met over a game of spades in Durham, North Carolina, adds a personal touch to their professional narrative, highlighting the serendipitous beginnings of their relationship and eventual collaboration. This personal bond, fortified by shared experiences and a mutual understanding of being "screwed over in court," has been instrumental in shaping the vision and mission of Courtroom5. Their complementary skills – Sonja's technical acumen and Debra's information management prowess – enable them to tackle the challenges of running a startup while fostering a shared passion for justice and empowerment.

Working together, however, is not without its challenges. Sonja and Debra candidly discuss the continuous effort required to balance their professional and personal lives, emphasizing the necessity of intentional scheduling and the discipline to separate business discussions from personal time. This ongoing negotiation between their roles as business partners and life partners is a testament to their commitment to both their relationship and their venture.

Their advice to other couples considering a similar path is poignant: prioritize the personal relationship, ensure a solid foundation before embarking on a business venture together, and select a partner who can significantly contribute to the business's success. Sonja and Debra's story is not just about love and legal tech; it's a narrative of resilience, mutual respect, and the unyielding belief in their mission to democratize legal support. Their story is an inspiring reminder of the power of partnership in navigating the challenges and triumphs of entrepreneurship.

Listen on mobile platforms:  ⁠⁠⁠⁠Apple Podcasts⁠⁠⁠⁠ |  ⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify⁠⁠⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠

Contact Us: 

Twitter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@gebauerm⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, or ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@glambert
⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Threads: @glambertpod or @gebauerm66
Email: geekinreviewpodcast@gmail.com
Music: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jerry David DeCicca⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

⁠Transcript


Feb 19, 202422:23
LegalWeek 2024 Special Part Three: Bill Piwonka of Exterro

LegalWeek 2024 Special Part Three: Bill Piwonka of Exterro

In the latest episode of "The Geek in Review" podcast, hosts Greg Lambert and Marlene Gebauer continue their series of interviews at the 2024 LegalWeek conference with guest Bill Piwonka, the Chief Marketing Officer at Exterro. The conversation dives into Exterro's participation at LegalWeek, highlighting the return to pre-COVID attendance levels and the company's successful engagement with customers, prospects, and partners. Piwonka shares insights into Exterro's focus on managing digital risk through the convergence of privacy, compliance, legal operations, litigation support, and cybersecurity response, emphasizing the importance of understanding and mitigating data risk. The discussion also covers Exterro's recent announcement of an existing AI assistant, which differentiates itself by being immediately available for use, contrasting with other future-promised AI technologies.

Piwonka elaborates on the broader industry trends, including the pressures on Chief Legal Officers (CLOs) to reduce budgets while expanding responsibilities, as highlighted in a survey conducted with the ACC. He emphasizes the significance of operationalizing and optimizing legal processes to meet these challenges efficiently. The conversation also touches on the differences in ESG strategy between CLOs in the US and those internationally, suggesting cultural and political influences on these approaches.

Looking to the future, Piwonka anticipates continued expansion of the CLO's role and responsibilities, especially in managing digital risk and ensuring responsible AI use. He predicts a shift in job roles and the creation of new employment opportunities as AI technologies evolve, rather than a reduction in employment. Piwonka concludes with suggestions on how to connect with Exterro for more information, highlighting the importance of platforms like LinkedIn and the company's website. The podcast emphasizes the evolving landscape of legal technology and digital risk management, with AI playing a crucial role in shaping future practices and strategies within the legal profession.

 

Listen on mobile platforms:  ⁠⁠⁠⁠Apple Podcasts⁠⁠⁠⁠ |  ⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify⁠⁠⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠

Contact Us: 

Twitter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@gebauerm⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, or ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@glambert
⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Threads: @glambertpod or @gebauerm66
Email: geekinreviewpodcast@gmail.com
Music: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jerry David DeCicca⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

⁠Transcript

Feb 16, 202421:08
Love & Legal Tech: Cassie Vertovec and Alex Macdonald

Love & Legal Tech: Cassie Vertovec and Alex Macdonald

We kick off our new "Love & Legal Tech" series this week where we embark on a journey to explore the personal and professional lives of couples in the legal tech industry. We are excited to interview couples who share in the excitement of weaving their professional endeavors into their personal relationships. We think this is going to be a great series where couples get a chance to tell their stories of how they balance what one of our guests describes as "Work-Life-Integration."

Our inaugural guests, Alex Macdonald and Cassie Vertovec share their unique story of how a solid professional collaboration slowly turned into a deep, personal connection.  Alex, the Chief Strategy Officer at McCarter and English, LLP, and Cassie, the Practice Director of Corporate and Director of Practice Strategies at Barnes & Thornburg, began their journey in the legal tech world at Seyfarth Shaw.  Over the years they have found themselves leading teams together, moving across the country, isolating together during the pandemic, and most recently working in similar firms. They navigated their careers with mutual respect and understanding, highlighting the importance of communication and shared values in both their professional and personal lives.

They provide insights into the dynamics of working as a couple while maintaining a balance between work and persona life. Which is no easy feat as they are both intertwined with the legal profession. Their story is a testament to the idea that professional collaboration can lead to personal growth and deeper connections.

Our hopes with the "Love & Legal Tech" series are that we not only offer a glimpse into the lives of a couple navigating love and legal tech but also shed light on broader themes within the legal industry, including the shift towards greater tech integration and the challenges and opportunities it presents. Our sincere thanks to Cassie and Alex for sharing their story with us on this series premiere.

Listen on mobile platforms:  ⁠⁠⁠⁠Apple Podcasts⁠⁠⁠⁠ |  ⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify⁠⁠⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠

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⁠Transcript

Feb 13, 202440:35
LegalWeek 2024 Special Part Two: Mollie Nichols and Mark Noel from Redgrave Data

LegalWeek 2024 Special Part Two: Mollie Nichols and Mark Noel from Redgrave Data

In the second of a special series of interviews from Legal Week 2024 , co-hosts Greg Lambert and Marlene Gebauer welcomed Mollie Nichols, CEO, and Mark Noel, Chief Information and Technology Officer of Redgrave Data. Nichols and Noel discuss Redgrave Data's mission to cut through the hype of legal tech innovations, particularly generative AI. Nichols emphasized the company's focus on delivering custom solutions that meet clients' actual needs and highlighted the importance of educating the legal community on effectively integrating new technologies into their practices.

Mark Noel emphasized the strategic addition of data scientists to their team, enabling Redgrave Data to develop and advise on cutting-edge technologies. He stressed the importance of applying generative AI judiciously, pointing out its limitations and the potential for misuse if not properly vetted. Noel and Nichols shared insights on navigating the legal tech landscape, emphasizing efficiency, data management, and the careful evaluation of tech solutions.

Looking forward, Noel predicted a recalibration of expectations for generative AI in the legal industry, suggesting a period of disillusionment might follow the initial hype. Conversely, Nichols expressed optimism about the industry's ability to thoughtfully incorporate new technologies, enhancing legal practices through careful testing and integration. Their discussion underscored the evolving nature of legal tech and the critical role of strategic implementation in leveraging its benefits.

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⁠Transcript

 

Feb 09, 202430:38
Legal Week 2024 Special Part One: Joey Seeber of Level Legal

Legal Week 2024 Special Part One: Joey Seeber of Level Legal

Welcome to the first of a few special Legal Week 2024 edition episodes of "The Geek in Review," where we looked for innovative and creative ideas on the road and recorded live from the bustling environment of the 2024 Legal Week conference in New York.

Marlene Gebauer notes the transformation of Legal Week into a thought leadership conference, with a special mention of keynote speaker Bryan Cranston's impactful talk on storytelling, branding, and the thoughtful application of AI in both the acting world and the legal tech space.

Joey Seeber, the guest for this episode, brings his experience and insights as the representative of Level Legal, a company that recently celebrated its 15th anniversary. Seeber shares the origin story of Level Legal, starting from its humble beginnings in 2009 in East Texas, evolving from a document review team within a law firm to a full-service eDiscovery and forensics company based in Dallas. Underlining the transition from paper to digital and the challenges of data hygiene, Seeber emphasizes the company's growth and its focus on human-centric service in the legal tech industry.

Discussing the influence of generative AI and other technological advancements on legal services, Seeber provides a grounded perspective on the hype versus the reality of AI's impact on the industry. He stresses the importance of human-to-human connections and hospitality in legal services, suggesting that while technical skills are essential, the ability to serve and delight clients sets Level Legal apart. Seeber notes the challenges of adapting to various eDiscovery platforms, the importance of a diverse skill set among staff, and the evolving roles within the legal tech ecosystem. Seeber's vision for Level Legal includes a focus on what he terms the "excellence reflex" – a combination of curiosity, service instinct, and the anticipation of client needs.

In the "crystal ball" segment, Seeber cautiously predicts the trajectory of generative AI in legal tech, suggesting that significant changes may be more gradual than some expect. He reflects on the legal industry's slow pace of adoption and the importance of integrating new technologies thoughtfully and effectively.

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⁠Transcript

Feb 07, 202422:43
Navigating the Future of Legal Tech with Caroline Hill

Navigating the Future of Legal Tech with Caroline Hill

This week, Greg Lambert sat down with Caroline Hill, Editor-in-Chief for Legal IT Insider to discuss the new partnership with NetLaw Media. Hill described the new partnership between Legal IT Insider and NetLaw Media as a mutually beneficial collaboration with significant synergy between the two organizations. She emphasized the complementarity of their focuses, with Legal IT Insider's emphasis on impartial coverage and promotion of various conferences in the legal tech sector, and NetLaw Media's focus on technology and IT security. Hill noted that both organizations share common sponsors and audiences, which enhances the partnership's potential​​.

She also mentioned the importance of working with Frances Anderson, the chief executive of NetLaw Media. Hill pointed out that NetLaw Media has been running the British Legal Technology Forum for years, indicating a deep involvement in the legal tech community.

Greg and Caroline also discussed the dramatic change in Legal Tech in 2023, and the continued shift in the industry as demands increase on law firms and others to truly implement AI solutions in 2024.

Hill pointed out that many law firms lack the expertise to build AI solutions themselves and therefore rely heavily on their business partners (vendors) for these capabilities. She suggested that the solution might lie in leaning on these business partners, but noted the challenge of justifying the costs to law firm leadership. She further mentioned the challenge of capacity and waitlists for AI projects, indicating that this has become a source of competition among law firms. The ability to quickly understand and adapt to the requirements of working with AI and establish effective vendor relationships is crucial for law firms to stay competitive and relevant in the rapidly evolving legal tech landscape​​.

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⁠Transcript


Jan 31, 202441:52
Projections for Legal Tech and Innovations in 2024 (TGIR Ep. 232)

Projections for Legal Tech and Innovations in 2024 (TGIR Ep. 232)

In this episode, Marlene Gebauer interviews attendees at two recent legal tech conferences - the TLTF Summit and the Legal AI Pathfinder's Assembly. She asks them about the biggest impacts they foresee AI and other innovations having on the legal industry in 2024. Their responses range from predictions that AI will help automate legal workflows and build tools faster, to allowing for better data analytics and metrics to improve client relationships and retention.

Marlene and Greg comment on the various perspectives shared. Key themes that emerge include leveraging AI to improve efficiency and processes, being cautious not to move too quickly, opportunities to reduce legal costs and enhance Access to Justice and hopes that 2024 will see AI tools become more practical and move beyond "party tricks". While recognizing the excitement around AI, they emphasize focusing on real business problems to solve rather than just implementing solutions for their own sake.

List of Speakers:

 

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Transcript

Jan 15, 202401:17:28
Breaking Barriers and Building Bridges: Tackling Racial Bias in Law with LexisNexis Fellows 2023 (TGIR Ep. 231)

Breaking Barriers and Building Bridges: Tackling Racial Bias in Law with LexisNexis Fellows 2023 (TGIR Ep. 231)

In this episode, Greg Lambert speaks with Whitney Triplet, Paul Campbell, and Adonica Black about the LexisNexis African Ancestry Network and LexisNexis Rule of Law Foundation Fellowship 2023 cohort. They discuss the goal of the fellowship program and the projects undertaken by the fellows, including technology solutions to alleviate racial bias in jury selection and law clinic support tools to combat systemic racism in the legal system. The conversation also covers the role of analytics in identifying and addressing disparities in the legal system, as well as the future of the fellowship program and initiatives. Takeaways 

  • The LexisNexis African Ancestry Network and LexisNexis Rule of Law Foundation Fellowship aims to tackle systemic racism and inequities in the legal system through technology solutions and project-based approaches.
  • Projects undertaken by the fellows include developing a mobile app to increase literacy and comprehension of critical rule of law concepts, creating an accessible repository of inclusive curriculum resources for law school instruction, and building bridges for HBCU students to legal fields that lack diversity.
  • The fellows' research focuses on addressing racial bias in jury selection and improving legal clinics to provide better access to justice for underrepresented individuals.
  • The use of analytics and technology can help identify and address disparities in the legal system, but it requires diverse data sets and a recognition of biases to ensure equitable outcomes.

 

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Music: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jerry David DeCicca⁠⁠⁠⁠

Transcript

Dec 26, 202340:14
Pfeifer and Wellen Give an Inside Look at LexisNexis' AI Sprint (TGIR Ep. 230)

Pfeifer and Wellen Give an Inside Look at LexisNexis' AI Sprint (TGIR Ep. 230)

This week we catch up with Jeff Pfeifer and Serena Wellen from LexisNexis to discuss the rapid development of AI tools for the legal industry over the past year. Pfeifer and Wellen give us an insider’s view of what it took to bring their Lexis+ AI tool to the market and the balance between speed to market and getting solid customer guidance on what they need in a legal-focused Generative AI tool. Between the initial version released to a select group of customers and the current version, the product grew from an open-ended chat interface into more of a guided resource that helps users on creating and following up on prompts. As with most AI tools created in the past year, there is still more potential as more and more customers use it and give critical feedback along the way.

In addition to Lexis+ AI, LexisNexis has now launched two additional AI products - Lexis Snapshot and Lexis Create. Lexis Snapshot summarizes legal complaints to help firms monitor litigation. Lexis Create brings AI capabilities directly into Microsoft Word to assist with drafting and research while lawyers are working on documents. The goal is to embed insights where lawyers are actually doing their work rather than separate AI tools.

While the focus of the initial Generative AI tools from LexisNexis were focused on the US market, Serena Wellen and her team are busy expanding that to more of an international reach. This requires adapting the models, content, and interface to different languages and legal systems. This is complex undertaking, but Wellen discusses how LexisNexis has content and editors around the world to help customize the tools. Surprisingly, desired use cases are fairly consistent globally - both simple legal tasks as well as more advanced legal research and drafting.

Greg Lambert brings up a recent LinkedIn discussion that he had with Microsoft’s Jason Barnwell, where Barnwell told him that today’s version of Generative AI tools are “the worst these things will ever be.” In response, Pfeifer says that LexisNexis is focused on continuously improving answer quality to build trust and prove the value of AI to skeptical lawyers. LexisNexis is leveraging relationships with companies like Microsoft to reinforce the stability and progress being made.

Wellen and Pfeifer look into the future and predicted that AI assistants will become highly personalized to individual lawyers. AI agents will also proliferate across platforms to help automate tasks and workflows. Law firms will likely accelerate their adoption of AI tools based on rising expectations and demands from corporate legal departments to work more efficiently.


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Transcript

Dec 04, 202342:21
The Future of KM is Bright: DiDomenico, Miro, and Little Review the KM&I for Legal Conference (TGIR Ep. 229)

The Future of KM is Bright: DiDomenico, Miro, and Little Review the KM&I for Legal Conference (TGIR Ep. 229)

This week, we cover the highlights of the recent Knowledge Management and Innovation for Legal Conference with our guests, Patrick DiDomenico, founder of Inspire KM Consulting and the organizer of the conference; Tanisha Little, Director of Knowledge Management at Simpson Thatcher; and Sara Miro, Director of Knowledge at Sullivan Cromwell. In a time of Generative AI Hype, the basic ideas behind Knowledge Management have never been more relevant. As much as we believe in the future of a technology that can build upon our current knowledge, how we structure and manage that knowledge will determine just how far we can go. Knowledge management has never been more important than it is today.

The episode begins with an exploration of the organizational complexities behind the inaugural conference. Patrick DiDomenico shares his experiences in orchestrating the event, noting the extensive, months-long commitment it entailed, yet expressing satisfaction with the innovative elements introduced, such as breakout sessions.

We then shift focus to the specific sessions led by our guests. Tanisha Little and Jennifer Mendez conducted a "KM 101" session, effectively orienting newcomers to the field. Additionally, an engaging KM Attorney Roundtable, facilitated by Sara Miro and Patrick Dundas, explored issues such as change management and the implications of generative AI.

Our discussion also covers the most impactful sessions from the conference. Key highlights include Andrea Alliston's keynote on leadership amidst disruption, Jeff Rovner's presentation on succession planning, and Mark Smolik's perspective on aligning law firms with client needs. The consensus underscores the conference's comprehensive value for professionals across all levels of KM expertise.

A significant aspect of the conference was the notable influx of newcomers to the KM field. Emphasizing the importance of foundational knowledge, Patrick DiDomenico notes that such conferences often attract a substantial proportion of first-time attendees. The provision of introductory content is pivotal for equipping these professionals for more advanced discussions in future gatherings.

For our Crystal Ball Question, there is a unanimous agreement on the transformative potential of generative AI, foreseeing an increase in KM specialization, refined use cases, and enhanced emphasis on data curation. Nevertheless, mastering foundational KM practices, such as change management, is deemed essential for fully capitalizing on these technological advancements. The episode concludes with an optimistic outlook on the continuous growth and evolution in the field of KM.


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Nov 27, 202334:33
TGIR Ep. 228 - Cat Moon and Mark Williams Launch the New Vanderbilt AI Law Lab (VAILL)

TGIR Ep. 228 - Cat Moon and Mark Williams Launch the New Vanderbilt AI Law Lab (VAILL)

Vanderbilt Law School recently launched an exciting new initiative called the Vanderbilt AI Legal Lab (VAILL) to explore how artificial intelligence can transform legal services and access to justice. In this episode, we spoke with VAILL's leadership – Cat Moon,(👑) Director of Innovation at Vanderbilt's Program on Law and Innovation (PoLI), and Mark Williams, Associate Director for Collections and Innovation at the Massey Law Library – about their vision for this pioneering lab. 

VAILL's mission is to harness AI to expand access to legal knowledge and services, with a particular focus on leveraging generative AI to improve legal service delivery. As Moon described, VAILL aims to experiment, collaborate widely, and build solutions to realize AI's potential in the legal domain. The lab will leverage Vanderbilt's cross-disciplinary strengths, drawing on experts in computer science, engineering, philosophy, and other fields to inform their ethically-grounded, human-centered approach.

VAILL is prioritizing partnerships across sectors – courts, law firms, legal aid organizations, alternative providers, and others – to test ideas and develop prototype AI applications that solve real legal needs. For instance, they plan to co-create solutions with Legal Aid of North Carolina's Innovation Lab to expand access to justice. Moon explained that generative AI presents solutions for some legal challenges, so VAILL hopes to match developing technological capabilities with organizations' needs.

Ethics are foundational to VAILL's work. Students will learn both practical uses of AI in law practice as well as broader policy and social implications. As Williams emphasized, beyond core professional responsibility issues, VAILL aims to empower students to lead in shaping AI's societal impacts through deeper engagement with questions around data, access, and algorithms. Teaching ethical, creative mindsets is VAILL's ultimate opportunity.

VAILL will leverage the resources and expertise of Vanderbilt's law librarians to critically assess new AI tools from their unique perspective. Williams noted that the lab sees law students as a "risk free" testing ground for innovations, while also equipping them with adaptable learning capabilities to keep pace with AI's rapid evolution. Rather than viewing AI as a differentiator, VAILL's goal is producing legally-skilled innovators ready to thrive amidst ongoing change.

Vanderbilt's AI Legal Lab represents an exciting development in exploring AI's legal impacts. By emphasizing human-centered, ethical approaches and collaborations, VAILL aims to pioneer solutions that expand access to legal knowledge and services for all. We look forward to seeing the innovative applications VAILL develops at the intersection of law and AI.

 

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Transcripts

Nov 14, 202343:07
vLex's Damien Riehl on Examining vLex's New Vincent AI

vLex's Damien Riehl on Examining vLex's New Vincent AI

On a special “on location” episode of The Geek in Review, Greg Lambert sits down with vLex’s Damien Riehl for a hands-on demonstration of the new generative AI tool called Vincent AI. While at the Ark KM Conference, Riehl explains that vLex has amassed a huge legal dataset over its 35 year history which allows them to now run their own large language models (LLM). The recent merger between vLex and Fastcase has combined their datasets to create an even more robust training corpus.


Riehl demonstrates how Vincent AI works by having it research a question on trade secret law and employee theft of customer lists. It retrieves relevant cases, statutes, regulations, and secondary sources, highlighting the most relevant passages. It summarizes each source and provides a confidence rating on how well each excerpt answers the initial question. Vincent AI then generates a legal memorandum summarizing the relevant law. Riehl explains how this is more trustworthy than a general chatbot like ChatGPT because it is grounded in real legal sources.


Riehl shows how Vincent AI can compare legal jurisdictions by generating memorandums on the same question for California, New York, the UK, and Spain. It can even handle foreign language sources, translating them into English. This allows for efficient multi-jurisdictional analysis. Riehl emphasizes Vincent AI's focus on asking straightforward questions in natural language rather than requiring complex prompts.


Looking ahead, Riehl sees potential for Vincent AI to leverage external LLMs like Anthropic's Claude model as well as their massive dataset of briefs and motions to generate tailored legal arguments statistically likely to persuade specific judges on particular issues. He explains this requires highly accurate tagging of documents which they can achieve through symbolic AI. Riehl aims to continue expanding features without requiring lawyers to become AI prompt engineers.


On access to justice, Riehl believes AI can help legal aid and pro bono attorneys handle more matters more efficiently. He also sees potential for AI assistance to pro se litigants to promote fairer outcomes. For judges, AI could help manage pro se cases and expedite decision-making. Overall, Riehl is optimistic about AI augmenting legal work over the next two years through ongoing improvements.


Riehl discusses vLex's new Vincent AI system and its ability to efficiently research legal issues across jurisdictions and across languages. He provides insight into the technology's development and potential while emphasizing understandable user interaction. The conversation highlights AI's emerging role in legal services to increase productivity, insight, and access to justice.

Links:

vLex Vincent AI


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Oct 30, 202334:01
Colin Levy, Dorna Moini, and Ashley Carlisle on Herding Cats and Heralding Change: The Inside Scoop on the "Handbook of Legal Tech"

Colin Levy, Dorna Moini, and Ashley Carlisle on Herding Cats and Heralding Change: The Inside Scoop on the "Handbook of Legal Tech"

This week on The Geek in Review podcast Marlene Gebauer and Greg Lambert featured guests Colin Levy, Ashley Carlisle, and Dorna Moini discussing Levy's recently published book "Handbook of Legal Tech." Levy edited the book and contributors included Moini, Carlisle's CEO, Tony Thai, and many more legal technology experts. The book provides an overview of key technologies transforming the legal industry like automation, AI, blockchain, document automation, CLM, and more.

Levy shared how he ended up editing the book, describing it as "herding cats" to get busy experts to contribute chapters. He wanted the book to serve as a comprehensive introduction to legal tech, with each chapter written by leaders in the various subject matter areas. Carlisle and Moini explained their motivations for taking time out of their demanding schedules to write chapters - spreading knowledge to help move the industry forward and impart insights from their work.

The guests reflected on their favorite parts of the experience. Levy enjoyed bringing together the community and seeing different perspectives. Carlisle appreciated being able to consolidate information on contract lifecycle management. Moini was proud to contribute right before having a baby. Lambert highlighted Levy juggling this book and writing his own solo book on legal tech stories from the front lines.

The guests offered advice to law students and lawyers looking to learn about and leverage legal tech. Carlisle emphasized starting with an open mind, intentional research, and reading widely from legal tech thought leaders. Moini recommended thinking big but starting small with iterative implementation. Levy stressed knowing your purpose and motivations to stay focused amidst the vast array of options.

Lambert prompted the guests to identify low-hanging fruit legal technologies those new to practice should focus on. Levy pointed to document automation and AI. Moini noted that intake and forms digitization can be a first step for laggards. Carlisle advised starting small with discrete tasks before tackling advanced tools.

For their forward-looking predictions, Carlisle saw AI hype fading but increasing tech literacy, Levy predicted growing focus on use and analysis of data as AI advances, and Moini forecasted a rise in online legal service delivery. The guests are excited about spreading awareness through the book to help transform the legal industry.

 

Oct 24, 202334:38
Jacqueline Schafer on Writing Briefs at the Speed of AI: How ClearBrief is Transforming Legal Drafting

Jacqueline Schafer on Writing Briefs at the Speed of AI: How ClearBrief is Transforming Legal Drafting

On this episode of The Geek in Review, hosts Marlene Gebauer and Greg Lambert delve into how AI can transform legal writing with ClearBrief founder and CEO Jacqueline Schafer. As a former litigator, Schafer experienced firsthand the frustrating scramble to finalize briefs and prepare filings. She founded ClearBrief in 2020 to leverage AI to analyze documents and suggest relevant evidence and citations to streamline drafting.

ClearBrief integrates into Microsoft Word to align with lawyers’ existing workflows. By uploading case documents and discovery materials, the AI can pull facts and quotes directly from the record to support legal arguments in the brief. New features even generate chronologies and timelines from case files automatically. Schafer explains the AI doesn’t hallucinate text from scratch, avoiding ethical pitfalls. Rigorous security and confidentiality controls provide the trust needed to gain adoption at top law firms.

According to Schafer, attorneys now exhibit much greater openness to tailored AI tools that enhance productivity versus disrupting their workflows entirely. Younger associates and paralegals tend to be most enthusiastic about the technology while firm leadership lags. She believes empowering the next generation of legal professionals with AI will modernize law practice to better serve unmet needs.

Looking ahead, Schafer expects to expand ClearBrief’s features to assist paralegals along with corporate attorneys beyond litigation. By leveraging AI to handle tedious tasks like cite-checking, lawyers can focus their time on high-value analysis and strategy. With the aid of trusted AI writing assistants, attorneys can craft compelling briefs and filings more efficiently while still verifying the underlying sources.


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Transcript




Oct 17, 202336:02
Paulina Grnarova and Yannic Kilcher from DeepJudge.AI: Unlocking Institutional Knowledge: How AI is Transforming Legal Search (TGIR Ep. 224)

Paulina Grnarova and Yannic Kilcher from DeepJudge.AI: Unlocking Institutional Knowledge: How AI is Transforming Legal Search (TGIR Ep. 224)

On this episode of The Geek in Review, hosts Marlene Gebauer and Greg Lambert explore innovations in legal search with Paulina Grnarova and Yannic Kilcher, co-founders of DeepJudge. This semantic search engine for legal documents leverages proprietary AI developed by experts with backgrounds from Google and academic AI research.

As PhDs from ETH Zurich, Grnarova and Kilcher recognized lawyers needed better access to institutional knowledge rather than constantly reinventing the wheel. DeepJudge moves beyond traditional keyword searches to a deeper integration of search and generative AI models like GPT-3. Partnerships provide financial support and key insights – advisors include execs from Recommind and Kira Systems while collaborations with law firms shape real-world product capabilities.

Discussing product development, Kilcher explains connecting search to language models allows generating summaries grounded in internal data without ethical or security risks of training individual models. Grnarova finds the core problem of connecting users to full knowledge translates universally across firms, though notes larger US firms devote more resources to knowledge management and data science teams.

When asked about the future of AI, Grnarova expresses excitement for AI and humans enhancing each other rather than replacing human roles. Kilcher predicts continued growth in model scale and capability, requiring innovations to sustain rapid progress. They aim to leverage academic research and industry experience to build AI that augments, not displaces, professionals.

DeepJudge stands out for its co-founder expertise and proprietary AI enabling semantic search to tap into institutional knowledge. Instead of reinventing the wheel, lawyers can find relevant precedents and background facts at their fingertips. As Kilcher states, competitive advantage lies in accumulated know-how – their technology surfaces this asset. The future of DeepJudge lies in combining search and generative models for greater insights.

Links:

Contact DeepJudge: info@deepjudge.ai⁠ Contact Us: 

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Transcript




Oct 10, 202335:36
Breaking the Stigma: Fostering Wellbeing in the Legal Profession (TGIR Ep. 223)

Breaking the Stigma: Fostering Wellbeing in the Legal Profession (TGIR Ep. 223)

[Ed. Note: This episodes discusses sensitive issues including depression and suicide. -GL]

Mental health and wellbeing issues have long posed challenges in the legal profession. 

However, in this thoughtful episode of The Geek in Review podcast, hosts Marlene Gebauer and Greg Lambert have an enlightening discussion with three experts on concrete ways to foster greater wellness.

Defining wellbeing holistically, Bree Buchanan, co-founder of the Well-Being in Law Movement, explains it encompasses mental, emotional, occupational, spiritual, and physical dimensions. She argues the profession needs “systemic, structural change” through total leadership buy-in, not just HR-led programs. As Buchanan emphasizes, “What I see frequently, then you'll have a practice group or a team, and the leader of that is not bought into this at all.”

Reviewing startling statistics from a new Thomson Reuters survey, Nita Cumello reveals over 50% of legal professionals have taken a mental health day this past quarter. She worries this implies “even more days spent, where they're operating in a negative or stressed or in best case, state of neutral headspace.” Cumello asserts, “if more than half of the people are struggling with mental health difficulties enough that it forces them to take time away from work, it means that there are even more days spent, where they're operating in a negative or stressed or in best case, state of neutral headspace.”

Saskia Mehlhorn courageously shares her family’s painful experience losing her youngest son to suicide and the importance of removing stigma through authenticity. As she recounts her eldest son telling her, “You can’t make the last thing that people will know about [him] something that isn’t him.” Mehlhorn stresses, "if someone lives authentically, we have to pick them up at the point where we, as a family, as a community, as a society fail and don't allow them to live authentically any longer."

Offering insights on providing genuine support, the guests emphasize taking helpful actions, active listening without platitudes, and cueing off what colleagues need. Buchanan advises firms should intervene to assist struggling employees rather than ignore issues or terminate them. She observes, “there’s much more willingness to sit down and give the person a chance and work with them.”

Cumello concludes wellbeing can’t be crowded out by urgent business demands, stating “we have to keep the well being movement as and think about it in that reframe sense of how foundational it is to performing optimally." She advocates assessing workforce wellbeing, training at all levels, and equipping leaders to role model healthy behaviors to drive lasting cultural change.

Links:

The Unmind report on The State of WellBeing in Law

Thomson Reuters Future of Professionals Report 

DIal 988 - Suicide and Crisis Lifeline


Contact Us: 

Twitter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@gebauerm⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, or ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@glambert⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Threads: @glambertpod or @gebauerm66

Voicemail: 713-487-7821

Email: geekinreviewpodcast@gmail.com

Music: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jerry David DeCicca⁠⁠⁠⁠

Transcript


Oct 03, 202341:37
Thomas Suh and Ken Block on How LegalMation is Revolutionizing Litigation Efficiency

Thomas Suh and Ken Block on How LegalMation is Revolutionizing Litigation Efficiency

On this episode of The Geek in Review, hosts Marlene Gebauer and Greg Lambert interview Thomas Suh, Founder and CEO, and Ken Block, Senior Account Executive of LegalMation. The company provides AI-powered tools to help litigators automate repetitive tasks and work more efficiently. The conversation focuses on LegalMation's products, overcoming resistance to adopting new legal tech, and predictions for the future evolution of legal service delivery.

Suh provides background on founding LegalMation about seven years ago to help streamline the "scut work" litigation associates spend time on. The flagship product automates drafting responses to lawsuits, discovery requests, demand letters, and more by leveraging a firm's historical data. LegalMation initially built an automation tool internally at a law firm before deciding to spin it off into a standalone legal tech company. The product found an early champion in the form of a corporate legal department interested in licensing it. Today, LegalMation serves large corporate legal departments, law firms, and insurance companies.

Suh and Block discuss common roadblocks to adopting new legal technology like lack of trust and skepticism. Suh notes the importance of identifying the right use cases where efficiency gains matter most. For high-stakes litigation, efficiency may be less of a concern than for high-volume routine matters. Corporate legal departments are often early adopters because they are focused on efficiency and supplementing personnel. Law firms still incentivized by billable hours may be warier of efficiency gains.

For the YouTube Viewers, Block demonstrates LegalMation's Response Creator tool for automating drafting of responses to complaints and discovery requests. The AI leverages a firm's historical data to maintain proper tone and style while speeding up document preparation significantly. Lawyers can still review and edit the AI-generated drafts before finalizing. Suh explains that because the AI relies solely on a firm's data, it maintains consistency rather than attempting to generate random creative language.

Looking ahead, Suh predicts that the litigation process will become more modular, with different firms or providers specializing in discrete phases rather than handling a case end-to-end. Block emphasizes that younger lawyers expect to leverage more technology and are unwilling to slog through repetitive manual tasks, which will force law firms to adapt. Technology stacks and automation will become selling points for recruiting top young talent.


Contact Us: 

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Email: geekinreviewpodcast@gmail.com

Music: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jerry David DeCicca⁠⁠⁠⁠

Transcript



Sep 26, 202357:58
Unleashing the Legal Monster Behind the Door - LexFusion's Christina Wojcik (TGIR Ep. 221)

Unleashing the Legal Monster Behind the Door - LexFusion's Christina Wojcik (TGIR Ep. 221)

In this episode of The Geek in Review, hosts Marlene Gebauer and Greg Lambert have an illuminating discussion with Christina Wojcik, the new Managing Director of Corporate for LexFusion. Christina has over 20 years of experience pioneering innovation in the legal services and technology space. The conversation covers Christina's diverse background and journey into legal tech, including formative experiences at companies like Pangea3, IBM, Seal Software, and Citi. She shares key lessons learned about the importance of visionary leadership, solving real client problems, and embracing a fearless, entrepreneurial spirit. Christina provides insights into top pain points for legal departments today, especially at highly regulated organizations like major banks. She discusses the cautious approach many are taking with emergent technologies like generative AI—treating it like a "monster behind the door" to be carefully studied before fully unleashing. Christina advocates for "failing fast" when testing innovations, allowing for rapid iteration in a safe sandbox environment. She explains her rationale for joining LexFusion and how she hopes to leverage her well-rounded expertise to drive value for legal tech providers and clients alike. The conversation concludes with Christina's predictions for the legal industry's evolution in areas like AI adoption, CLM consolidation, and new service delivery models. She provides a fascinating insider perspective on the future of legal innovation. Contact Us: 

Twitter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@gebauerm⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, or ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@glambert⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Threads: @glambertpod or @gebauerm66

Voicemail: 713-487-7821

Email: geekinreviewpodcast@gmail.com

Music: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jerry David DeCicca⁠⁠⁠⁠

Transcript


Sep 17, 202337:16
Paxton.AI's Chau & Ulin: How AI Allows Legal Work to Soar to New Heights (TGIR Ep. 220)

Paxton.AI's Chau & Ulin: How AI Allows Legal Work to Soar to New Heights (TGIR Ep. 220)

This episode of The Geek in Review podcast provides an in-depth look at how the AI assistant Paxton, created by Tanguy Chau and Mike Ulin, is transforming legal work. The hosts speak with the founders of Paxton to explore the pain points their technology aims to solve and how generative AI can enhance lawyers' capabilities. Tanguy and Mike discuss their backgrounds in AI, regulatory compliance, venture capital, and management consulting. This diverse experience informed their vision for Paxton as an AI assistant specifically built for legal and compliance professionals. They explain that Paxton is trained on millions of legal documents and regulations, allowing it to search this vast knowledge and retrieve highly relevant information rapidly. A key feature they highlight is Paxton's accuracy in citing sources, with every sentence linked back to the original text. One of the key features of Paxton is that it can automate repetitive, low-value legal work to make lawyers more efficient. Tanguy notes that tasks like reviewing thousands of sales contracts clause-by-clause or compiling 50-state surveys that once took weeks can now be done by Paxton in minutes. Mike discusses Paxton's advanced document comparison capabilities that go beyond keyword matching to understand meaning and intent. This allows quick, substantive analysis of contracts, marketing materials, and more. Exploring the future, Mike predicts that like software developers, lawyers who embrace AI will become much more productive. But higher-level strategic thinking will remain uniquely human. Tanguy shares an analogy of a human on a bicycle outpacing a condor, the most efficient animal. He believes combining human creativity with AI tools like Paxton will enable radically new levels of efficiency and capability. Paxton.AI's Tanguy and Mike make a compelling case that AI-powered tools such as Paxton will fundamentally transform legal work. By automating repetitive tasks, AI will free lawyers to focus on high-value, client-facing work. Overall, this episode provides great insights into how generative AI may soon become indispensable for legal professionals seeking to improve their productivity and capabilities. As a special treat, we wrap up the interview with a demonstration of Paxton.AI's capabilities. (YouTube Only)

Links:

Paxton AI (try the Beta for free)

Forbes Article: Unlocking The 10x Lawyer: How Generative AI Can Transform The Legal Landscape

Using Generative AI to analyze the 45 page Trump Indictment using Paxton AI

Unveiling Paxton AI's Newest Features: Boolean Composer and Document Compare

Instantly Analyzing the Congressional UFO Hearing with Generative AI powered by Paxton AI

Contact Us: 

Twitter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@gebauerm⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, or ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@glambert⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

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Voicemail: 713-487-7821

Email: geekinreviewpodcast@gmail.com

Music: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jerry David DeCicca⁠⁠⁠⁠Transcript

Sep 12, 202343:33
LINKS, Citizen Coders & Auditing Shelfware: Insights from Harbor’s Kris Martin

LINKS, Citizen Coders & Auditing Shelfware: Insights from Harbor’s Kris Martin

On this episode of The Geek in Review podcast, hosts Marlene Gebauer and Greg Lambert interview Kris Martin, Executive Vice President at Harbor, to discuss innovation, AI, and the future of technology in the legal industry.

They open the show by talking about Harbor's upcoming LINKS conference and its keynote focused on exploring human potential in the age of AI. Kris provides background on how the conference originated from an annual survey Harbor conducts to take the pulse of the legal community. He explains Harbor's goal is to support legal organizations through insights, research, and events like the LINKS conference.

The discussion moves to AI trends and Jean O’Grady and Harbor's strategic start/stop survey results. The survey reveals 93% of firms are actively exploring AI tools, with top vendors being Casetext and Thomson Reuters. Kris emphasizes law librarians play a crucial role in evaluating new AI technologies and guiding procurement decisions as firms adopt these tools.

However, with tight budgets at most firms, Kris Martin points out it's also important to audit usage data of existing resources. This helps inform negotiations with vendors to find cost savings on research contracts. He notes legal research tools will inevitably integrate more tightly into lawyers' daily workflows in the future. To facilitate this, Kris introduces the concept of "citizen coders" - enabling lawyers to articulate their needs and processes in technology and code terms rather than just legal terms.

Shifting gears, Kris elaborates on Harbor's recent rebranding from HBR Consulting, which brought six previously merged companies together under one unified brand and mission. He explains that true integration requires deep alignment across the merged organizations on culture, vision, and values. This allows Harbor to provide end-to-end solutions for legal organizations.

Looking to the future, Kris predicts legal research will become even more embedded into lawyer workflows over the next 2-5 years, rather than a separate step. He sees law libraries' roles evolving as AI capabilities increasingly integrate into legal processes and tools. Rather than going to a separate platform for research, lawyers will access these AI-enhanced tools in their daily workflows.

Overall, the wide-ranging discussion provides insights into Harbor's efforts to support the legal community through conferences, research, and integrating emerging technologies. Kris highlights the importance of law librarians evaluating and implementing new AI tools while also managing costs through audits. He leaves listeners with an optimistic vision for the future where legal research and lawyers' needs are more tightly connected through technology.

Links:


Sep 09, 202334:50
Observing the Black Box: Transcend's Brandon Wiebe's Insights into Governing Emerging AI Systems

Observing the Black Box: Transcend's Brandon Wiebe's Insights into Governing Emerging AI Systems

This week we are joined by Brandon Wiebe, General Counsel and Head of Privacy at Transcend. Brandon discusses the company's mission to develop privacy and AI solutions. He outlines the evolution from manual governance to technical solutions integrated into data systems. Transcend saw a need for more technical privacy and AI governance as data processing advanced across organizations. Wiebe provides examples of AI governance challenges, such as engineering teams using GitHub Copilot and sales/marketing teams using tools like Jasper. He created a lightweight AI Code of Conduct at Transcend to give guidance on responsible AI adoption. He believes technical enforcement like cataloging AI systems will also be key. On ESG governance changes, Wiebe sees parallels to privacy regulation evolving from voluntary principles to specific technical requirements. He expects AI governance will follow a similar path but much faster, requiring legal teams to become technical experts. Engaging early and lightweight in development is key. Transcend's new Pathfinder tool provides observability into AI systems to enable governance. It acts as an intermediary layer between internal tools and foundation models like OpenAI. Pathfinder aims to provide oversight and auditability into these AI systems. Looking ahead, Wiebe believes GCs must develop deep expertise in AI technology, either themselves or by building internal teams. Understanding the technology will allow counsels to provide practical and discrete advice as adoption accelerates. Technical literacy will be critical. Contact Us: Twitter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@gebauerm⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, or ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@glambert⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Threads: @glambertpod or @gebauerm66 Voicemail: 713-487-7821 Email: geekinreviewpodcast@gmail.com Music: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jerry David DeCicca⁠⁠⁠⁠

Sep 05, 202343:60
Fast, Smart, and Empathetic: How DISCO's Culture Drives Legal Tech Innovation (TGIR Ep. 217)

Fast, Smart, and Empathetic: How DISCO's Culture Drives Legal Tech Innovation (TGIR Ep. 217)

This week on The Geek in Review, hosts Greg Lambert and Marlene Gebauer spoke with Katie DeBord and Kristin Zmrhal, two vice presidents from legal tech company DISCO. Greg kicked off the episode by discussing his recent work with a Houston nonprofit called Project Remix Ventures that helps at-risk youth. He took their leader on a visit to innovation hub The Ion to showcase reinventing old spaces for new purposes, like DISCO has done with legal tech. The hosts then welcomed Katie DeBord, who moved from being Chief Innovation Officer at law firm Bryan Cave Leighton Paisner to DISCO. In her current role, Katie focuses on leveraging technology like AI to improve the litigation process for lawyers. She drew experience from her past analyst role at the CIA, where she honed her skills in synthesizing complex data sources.

The hosts also introduced Kristin Zmrhal, who has over 20 years of experience in the legal tech space. At DISCO, she helped build their eDiscovery products and services. Kristin explained that DISCO's vision is to create great legal technology that helps lawyers find evidence faster. Their product suite now covers the entire litigation lifecycle, from intake to discovery to case management. DISCO uses AI tools like their new Celia application to automatically surface insights from case documents, allowing lawyers to review documents more efficiently. They are also careful to cite sources to ensure transparency.

In terms of company culture, Katie and Kristin discussed how DISCO values rapid experimentation, quick decision-making, and collaborating as a team. They also emphasize empathy in how they treat each other and design products for users. Being a public company also gives employees a sense of ownership. On the innovation side, Katie sees billable hours changing due to advancing legal technology, which will impact law firm profitability models. Kristin predicts AI adoption will reach a tipping point in legal tech within 2-5 years, drastically improving processes like eDiscovery. However, regulating AI poses challenges for the legal industry.

For giving back, DISCO has community service and pro bono programs. DISCO Cares allows employees to volunteer locally. Through DISCO Pro Bono, they donate their technology to support pro bono legal matters. This aligns with their mission of making legal services more accessible. When asked for parting thoughts, Katie emphasized lawyers needing to leverage professionals from adjacent disciplines as part of their teams. Kristin reiterated that this is the most exciting time in her 20 year legal tech career, with AI poised to transform legal workflows.

This engaging discussion provided insights into DISCO's innovative products and empathetic culture. With seasoned experts like Katie and Kristin leading the way, DISCO seems well-positioned to help shape the future of legal technology. Listeners can connect with Katie and Kristin on LinkedIn and find out more about DISCO's offerings at csdisco.com. Be sure to stay tuned to The Geek in Review for more insights from leaders in legal tech.


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Voicemail: 713-487-7821 Email: geekinreviewpodcast@gmail.com
Music: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jerry David DeCicca⁠⁠⁠⁠

⁠⁠Transcript


Aug 29, 202341:10
Deploying Cutting-Edge Legal AI: Travers Smith's Cautious, But Open-source Approach. (TGIR Ep. 216)

Deploying Cutting-Edge Legal AI: Travers Smith's Cautious, But Open-source Approach. (TGIR Ep. 216)

In this episode of The Geek in Review, hosts Greg Lambert and Marlene Gebauer interview three guests from UK law firm Travers Smith about their work on AI: Chief Technology Officer Oliver Bethel, Director of Legal Technology Sean Curran, and AI Manager Sam Lansley. They discuss Travers Smith's approach to testing and applying AI tools like generative models.

A key focus is finding ways to safely leverage AI while mitigating risks like copyright issues and hallucination. Travers Smith built an internal chatbot called YCNbot to experiment with generative AI through secure enterprise APIs. They are being cautious on the generative side but see more revolutionary impact from reasoning applications like analyzing documents.

Travers Smith has open sourced tools like YCNbot to spur responsible AI adoption. Collaboration with 273 Ventures helped build in multi-model support. The team is working on reducing dependence on manual prompting and increasing document analysis capabilities. They aim to be model-agnostic to hedge against reliance on a single vendor.

On model safety, Travers Smith emphasizes training data legitimacy, multi-model flexibility, and probing hallucination risks. They co-authored a paper on subtle errors in legal AI. Dedicated roles like prompt engineers are emerging to interface between law and technology. Travers Smith is exploring AI for tasks like contract review but not yet for work product.

When asked about the crystal ball for legal AI, the guests predicted the need for equitable distribution of benefits, growth in reasoning applications vs. generative ones, and movement toward more autonomous agents over manual prompting. Info providers may gain power over intermediaries applying their data.

This wide-ranging discussion provides an inside look at how one forward-thinking firm is advancing legal AI in a prudent and ethical manner. With an open source mindset, Travers Smith is exploring boundaries and sharing solutions to propel the responsible use of emerging technologies in law.

Links:


Listen on mobile platforms:  ⁠Apple Podcasts⁠ |  ⁠Spotify⁠ | YouTube (NEW!)

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Twitter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@gebauerm⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, or ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@glambert⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
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Voicemail: 713-487-7821 Email: geekinreviewpodcast@gmail.com
Music: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jerry David DeCicca⁠⁠⁠⁠

⁠⁠Transcript



Aug 22, 202301:05:58
Laura Leopard on Law Firms' Current Succession Planning: Step One - Do Nothing

Laura Leopard on Law Firms' Current Succession Planning: Step One - Do Nothing

In this episode of The Geek in Review, hosts Marlene Gebauer and Greg Lambert interview Laura Leopard, founder and CEO of Leopard Solutions, about succession planning challenges facing law firms. Leopard explains that many firms have partners nearing retirement age but no concrete plans for transitioning clients and leadership. This lack of succession planning threatens law firms' futures.

Laura mentions that to make matters worse, the path to equity partnership is getting longer, making it harder to retain promising senior associates and counsel. Firms have added non-equity partner roles, keeping equity partner numbers small to inflate profits per partner. Leadership lacks incentives to retire, with no retirement plans or continued compensation. All this will hamper recruiting efforts, as younger generations prioritize work-life balance.

She recommends that in order to retain mid-career attorneys, firms must rethink policies on remote work, billable hours, and flexibility. Virtual firms with better lifestyle offerings are growing competitors. But firms seem unwilling to change. Leopard argues everything should be on the table for analysis by outside consultants. Phased retirements and succession mentoring could also help transition clients and power.

Though Laura Leopard (and even Bruce MacEwan) cannot point to examples of firms that have executed succession planning well, it is possible with courageous leadership. She advises setting retirement age limits, crafting written plans, and easing older partners' exits. A too-big-to-fail mentality persists despite serious business vulnerabilities if talent is not retained and recruited.

Looking ahead, Leopard predicts the rise of virtual firms will shake up the legal industry as they encroach on Big Law territory with alternative fee arrangements. The pandemic accelerated dissatisfaction with law firm partnership and policies. As generational divides grow, flexible virtual firms will keep gaining ground over more rigid large firms.

This engaging discussion unpacks the complex dynamics around law firm succession planning and existential threats posed by lack of preparation. As partners cling to power, can bold leaders emerge to implement creative solutions and secure these institutions' longevity? Tune in for an insightful examination of forces reshaping the legal landscape.

Links:

  • Leopard Solutions’ LinkedIn
  • Leopard Solutions’ YouTube
  • Laura’s LinkedIn
  • Listen on mobile platforms:  ⁠Apple Podcasts⁠ |  ⁠Spotify⁠

    Contact Us:

    Twitter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@gebauerm⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, or ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@glambert⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
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    Voicemail: 713-487-7821 Email: geekinreviewpodcast@gmail.com
    Music: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jerry David DeCicca⁠⁠⁠⁠

    ⁠⁠Transcript

    Aug 15, 202349:13
    Trellis' Nicole Clark on Leveraging State Court Data for Competitive Advantage (TGIR Ep. 214)

    Trellis' Nicole Clark on Leveraging State Court Data for Competitive Advantage (TGIR Ep. 214)

    The Geek in Review podcast hosts Marlene Gebauer and Greg Lambert interviewed Nicole Clark, CEO of Trellis, about their new Law Firm Intelligence tool (LFI). This tool allows law firms to analyze aggregated and normalized state trial court data to gain competitive intelligence across cases, practice areas, and performance. Collecting this unstructured data from county courts is very challenging, but provides valuable business insights.

    The Law Firm Intelligence tool enables firms to identify growth opportunities, benchmark themselves, and drill down into the data to find strategic insights. Firms can slice and dice the data by region, practice area, time period, and other parameters to get to the most relevant information. LFI also gives litigators specific insights into judges, opposing counsel tactics, and case outcomes.

    Trellis uses both technology and human QA processes to ensure the accuracy of the raw trial court data. The data comes directly from the courts, without any alterations by Trellis. This allows Trellis to spot trends like hotspots for certain case types, which can inform law firm strategy and policy implications.

    As a newer legal tech company, Trellis initially had to overcome skepticism and get large firms to try their product. But steady growth has now built their credibility. Nicole Clark discussed the challenges of selling into the legal industry as a startup.

    Trellis has exciting new AI capabilities in development that will leverage the trove of state court data they have aggregated. While widespread adoption of AI in legal is coming, though the timeline is uncertain. Clark predicts more law firm consolidation and AI startups, but cautions against overestimating what legal tasks AI can solve.

    Links Mention:

    Listen on mobile platforms:  Apple Podcasts |  Spotify

    Contact Us:

    Twitter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠@gebauerm⁠⁠⁠⁠, or ⁠⁠⁠⁠@glambert⁠⁠⁠⁠


    Voicemail: 713-487-7821
    Email: geekinreviewpodcast@gmail.com
    Music: ⁠⁠⁠⁠Jerry David DeCicca⁠⁠⁠

    ⁠⁠Transcript

    Aug 07, 202339:23
    You Still Need to Put in the Work: Hyperdraft's Ashley Carlisle and Tony Thai on the AI Hype Cycle

    You Still Need to Put in the Work: Hyperdraft's Ashley Carlisle and Tony Thai on the AI Hype Cycle

    Tony Thai and Ashley Carlisle of HyperDraft, return to The Geek in Review podcast to provide an update on the state of generative AI in the legal industry. It has been 6 months since their last appearance, when the AI Hype Cycle was on the rise. We wanted to get them back on the show to see where we are on that hype cycle at the moment.

    While hype around tools like ChatGPT has started to level off, Tony and Ashley note there is still a lot of misinformation and unrealistic expectations about what this technology can currently achieve. Over the past few months, HyperDraft has received an influx of requests from law firms and legal departments for education and consulting on how to practically apply AI like large language models. Many organizations feel pressure from management to "do something" with AI, but lack a clear understanding of the concrete problems they aim to solve. This results in a solution in search of a problem situation.

    Tony and Ashley provide several key lessons learned regarding limitations of generative AI. It is not a magic bullet or panacea – you still have to put in the work to standardize processes before automating them. The technology excels at research, data extraction and summarization, but struggles to create final, high-quality legal work product. If the issue being addressed is about standardizing processes or topics, then having the ability to create 50 different ways to answer the issue doesn't create standards, it creates chaos.

    Current useful applications center on legal research, brainstorming, administrative tasks – not mission-critical legal analysis. The hype around generative AI could dampen innovation in process automation using robotic process automation and expert systems. Casetext's acquisition by Thomson Reuters illustrates the present-day limitations of large language models trained primarily on case law.

    Looking to the near future, Tony and Ashley predict the AI hype cycle will continue to fizzle out as focus shifts to education and literacy around all forms of AI. More legal tech products will likely combine specialized AI tools with large language models. And law firms may finally move towards flat rate billing models in order to meet client expectations around efficiency gains from AI.


    Contact Us:

    Twitter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠@gebauerm⁠⁠⁠⁠, or ⁠⁠⁠⁠@glambert⁠⁠⁠⁠
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    Email: geekinreviewpodcast@gmail.com
    Music: ⁠⁠⁠⁠Jerry David DeCicca⁠⁠⁠


    ⁠⁠Transcript


    Jul 25, 202355:16
    Thomson Reuters' Kriti Sharma on Responsible AI and the Path to Trusted Tech in Law

    Thomson Reuters' Kriti Sharma on Responsible AI and the Path to Trusted Tech in Law

    The Geek in Review podcast welcomed Kriti Sharma, Chief Product Officer of Legal Tech at Thomson Reuters, to discuss AI and ethics in the legal industry. Kriti talks to us about the importance of diversity at Thomson Reuters and how it impacts product development. She explained TR's approach to developing AI focused on augmenting human skills rather than full automation. Kriti also discusses the need for more regulation around AI and the shift towards human skills as AI takes on more technical work.

    A major theme was the responsible development and adoption of AI tools like ChatGPT. She discusses the risks of bias but shared TR's commitment to building trusted and ethical AI grounded in proven legal content. Through this "grounding" of the information, the AI produces reliable answers lawyers can confidently use and reduce the hallucinations that are prevalent in publicly commercial Gen AI tools.

    Kriti shares her passion for ensuring people from diverse backgrounds help advance AI in law. She argues representation is critical in who develops the tech and what data trains it to reduce bias. Kriti explains that diversity of experiences and knowledge amongst AI creators is key to building inclusive products that serve everyone's needs. She emphasizes Thomsons Reuters' diversity across leadership, which informs development of thoughtful AI. Kriti states that as AI learns from its creators and data like humans do, we must be intentional about diverse participation. Having broad involvement in shaping AI will lead to technology that is ethical and avoids propagating systemic biases. Kriti makes a compelling case that inclusive AI creation is imperative for both building trust and realizing the full potential of the technology to help underserved communities.

    Kriti Sharma highlights the potential for AI to help solve major societal challenges through her non-profit AI for Good. For example, democratizing access to helpful legal and mental health information. She spoke about how big companies like TR can turn this potential into actual services benefiting underserved groups. Kriti advocated for collaboration between industry, government and civil society to develop beneficial applications of AI.

    Kriti founded the non-profit AI for Good to harness the power of artificial intelligence to help solve pressing societal challenges. Through AI for Good, Kriti has led the development of AI applications focused on expanding access to justice, mental healthcare, and support services for vulnerable groups. For example, the organization created the chatbot tool rAInbow to provide information and resources to those experiencing domestic violence. By partnering frontline organizations with technologists, AI for Good aims to democratize access to helpful services and trusted information. Kriti sees huge potential for carefully constructed AI to have real positive impact in areas like legal services for underserved communities.

    Looking ahead, Kriti says coordinated AI regulations are needed globally. She calls for policymakers, companies and society to work together to establish frameworks that enable adoption while addressing risks. With the right balance, AI can transform legal services for the better.

    Links:

    Listen on mobile platforms:  Apple Podcasts |  Spotify

    Contact Us:

    Twitter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠@gebauerm⁠⁠⁠⁠, or ⁠⁠⁠⁠@glambert⁠⁠⁠⁠
    Voicemail: 713-487-7821
    Email: geekinreviewpodcast@gmail.com
    Music: ⁠⁠⁠⁠Jerry David DeCicca⁠⁠⁠


    ⁠⁠Transcript

    Jul 18, 202337:07
    Cybersecurity in the Remote Work Era: AI, Employees and an Integrated Defense - With SessionGuardian's Jordan Ellington and Oren Leib, and Katten's Trisha Sircar

    Cybersecurity in the Remote Work Era: AI, Employees and an Integrated Defense - With SessionGuardian's Jordan Ellington and Oren Leib, and Katten's Trisha Sircar

    In this episode of The Geek in Review podcast, host Marlene Gebauer and co-host Greg Lambert discuss cybersecurity challenges with guests Jordan Ellington, founder of SessionGuardian, Oren Leib, Vice President of Growth and Partnership at SessionGuardian, and Trisha Sircar, partner and chief privacy officer at Katten Muchin Rosenman LLP.

    Ellington explains that the impetus for creating SessionGuardian came from working with a law firm to secure their work with eDiscovery vendors and contract attorney staffing agencies. The goal was to standardize security practices across vendors. Ellington realized the technology could provide secure access to sensitive information from anywhere. SessionGuardian uses facial recognition to verify a user's identity remotely.

    Leib discusses some alarming cybersecurity statistics, including a 7% weekly increase in global cyber attacks and the fact that law firms and insurance companies face over 1,200 attacks per week on average. Leib notes SessionGuardian's solution addresses risks beyond eDiscovery and source code review, including data breach response, M&A due diligence, and outsourced call centers. Recently, a major North American bank told Leib that 10 of their last breach incidents were caused by unauthorized photography of sensitive data.

    Sircar says law firms' top challenges are employee issues, data retention problems, physical security risks, and insider threats. Regulations address real-world issues but can be difficult for global firms to navigate. Certifications show a firm's commitment to security but continuous monitoring and updating of practices is key. When negotiating with vendors, Sircar recommends considering cyber liability insurance, audit rights, data breach responsibility, and limitations of liability.

    Looking ahead, Sircar sees employee education as an ongoing priority, along with the ethical use of AI. Ellington expects AI will be used for increasingly sophisticated phishing and impersonation attacks, requiring better verification of individuals' identities. Leib says attorneys must take responsibility for cyber defenses, not just rely on engineers. He announces SessionGuardian will offer free CLE courses on cybersecurity awareness and compliance.

    The episode highlights how employee errors and AI threats are intensifying even as remote and hybrid work become standard. Firms should look beyond check-the-box compliance to make privacy and security central in their culture. Technology like facial recognition and continuous monitoring helps address risks, but people of all roles must develop competence and vigilance. Overall, keeping client data secure requires an integrated and ever-evolving approach across departments and service providers. Strong terms in vendor agreements and verifying partners' practices are also key.


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    Contact Us:

    Twitter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠@gebauerm⁠⁠⁠⁠, or ⁠⁠⁠⁠@glambert⁠⁠⁠⁠
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    Email: geekinreviewpodcast@gmail.com
    Music: ⁠⁠⁠⁠Jerry David DeCicca⁠⁠⁠


    ⁠⁠Transcript


    Jul 11, 202346:27
    A Literal Generative AI Discussion: How AI Could Reshape Law

    A Literal Generative AI Discussion: How AI Could Reshape Law

    For the Fourth of July week, we thought we'd do something fun and probably a little weird. Greg spoke with an AI guest named Justis for this episode. Justis, powered by OpenAI's GPT-4, was able to have a natural conversation with Greg and provide insightful perspectives on the use of generative AI in the legal industry, specifically in law firms.

    In the first part of their discussion, Justis gave an overview of the legal industry's interest in and uncertainty around adopting generative AI. While many law firm leaders recognize its potential, some are unsure of how it fits into legal work or worry about risks. Justis pointed to examples of firms exploring AI and said letting lawyers experiment with the tools could help identify use cases.

    Greg and Justis then discussed the challenges for the legal industry in using AI, like knowledge gaps, data issues, technology maturity, and managing change. They also talked about the upsides of using AI for tasks such as research, drafting, and review, including efficiency and cost benefits, as well as downsides like over-reliance on AI and ethical concerns.

    The conversation turned to how AI could streamline law firm operations, with opportunities around scheduling, paperwork, billing, client insights, and more. However, Justis noted that human oversight is still critical. Justis and Greg also discussed how AI may impact legal jobs, creating demand for new skills and roles but aiming to augment human work rather than replace it.

    Finally, Justis suggested innovations law firms could build with AI like research and drafting tools, analytics, dispute resolution systems, and project management. Justis emphasized that focusing on user needs, ethics, and change management will be key for successfully implementing AI. Looking ahead, Justis anticipated continuing progress in legal AI, regulatory changes, a focus on ethics, growing demand for AI skills, and AI becoming a competitive advantage for some firms.

    While this was a "unique" episode for The Geek in Review, we hope it provided an insightful "conversation" about the current and future state of generative AI in the legal industry. There is significant promise but there are also challenges around managing change, addressing risks, and ensuring the responsible development of new AI tools. With the right focus and approach, law firms can start exploring ways to make the most of AI and gain a competitive edge. But they must make AI work for human professionals, not the other way around.

    Listen on mobile platforms:  Apple Podcasts |  Spotify

    Contact Us:

    Twitter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠@gebauerm⁠⁠⁠⁠, or ⁠⁠⁠⁠@glambert⁠⁠⁠⁠
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    Email: geekinreviewpodcast@gmail.com
    Music: ⁠⁠⁠⁠Jerry David DeCicca⁠⁠⁠


    ⁠⁠Transcript



    Jul 03, 202329:12
    The Rise of "Post-Truth" Litigation: ALM's Isha Marathe on How Deep Fakes Threaten the Legal System

    The Rise of "Post-Truth" Litigation: ALM's Isha Marathe on How Deep Fakes Threaten the Legal System

    Isha Marathe, a tech reporter for American Lawyer Media, joined the podcast to discuss her recent article on how deep fake technology is coming to litigation and whether the legal system is prepared. Deep fakes are hyper-realistic images, videos or audio created using artificial intelligence to manipulate or generate fake content. They are easy and inexpensive to create but difficult to detect. Marathe believes deep fakes have the potential to severely impact the integrity of evidence and the trial process if the legal system is unprepared.


    E-discovery professionals are on the front lines of detecting deep fakes used as evidence, according to Marathe. However, they currently only have limited tools and methods to authenticate digital evidence and determine if it is real or AI-generated. Marathe argues judges and lawyers also need to be heavily educated on the latest developments in deep fake technology in order to counter their use in court. Regulations, laws and advanced detection technology are still lacking but urgently needed.


    Marathe predicts that in the next two to five years, deep fakes will significantly start to affect litigation and pose risks to the judicial process if key players are unprepared. States will likely pass a patchwork of laws to regulate AI-generated images. Sophisticated detection software will emerge but will not be equally available in all courts, raising issues of equity and access to justice.


    The two recent cases where parties claimed evidence as deep fakes highlight the issues at stake but did not dramatically alter the trial outcomes. However, as deep fake technology continues to rapidly advance, it may soon be weaponized to generate highly compelling and persuasive fake evidence that could dupe both legal professionals and jurors. Once seen, such imagery can be hard to ignore, even if proven to be false or AI-generated.


    Marathe argues that addressing and adapting to the rise of deep fakes will require a multi-pronged solution: education, technology tools, regulations and policy changes. But progress on all fronts is slow while threats escalate quickly. Deep fakes pose an alarm for legal professionals and the public, dragging the legal system as a whole into an era of “post-truth.” Trust in the integrity of evidence and trial outcomes could be at stake. Overall, it was an informative if sobering discussion on the state of the legal system’s preparedness for inevitable collisions with deep fake technology.


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    Email: geekinreviewpodcast@gmail.com
    Music: ⁠⁠⁠⁠Jerry David DeCicca⁠⁠⁠


    ⁠⁠Transcript


    Jun 28, 202335:20
    The Rising Cost of Legal Services: Insights from 10 Years of Data from CounselLink's Kristina Satkunas

    The Rising Cost of Legal Services: Insights from 10 Years of Data from CounselLink's Kristina Satkunas

    Our guest this week is Kristina Satkunas, Director of Analytic Consulting at LexisNexis. Kristina discusses the recently released LexisNexis CounselLink Enterprise Legal Management Trends Report for 2023. This annual report provides insights and benchmarks on key metrics related to corporate legal spending and outside counsel relationships.

    The 2023 report found that law firm hourly rates increased 4.5% over the past year, the highest year-over-year increase in the 10 years LexisNexis has published the report. While rate increases are not surprising, the magnitude is noteworthy. Kris attributes the largest drivers of the increase to economic factors like inflation as well as lower demand for certain types of legal work. However, average blended rates (the rates charged for entire matters rather than individual timekeepers) remained relatively flat. This suggests in-house counsel are mitigating rate hikes by changing the mix of firms, timekeepers, and types of timekeepers working their matters.

    The report also found the ongoing trend of consolidation to fewer outside firms continues, with 61% of companies using 10 or fewer firms for 80% of their legal spending. Kristina expects this trend to remain relatively stable but notes there are benefits to using both a smaller number of firms (e.g. better rates, stronger relationships) and a larger number of firms (e.g. subject matter expertise, competitive rates). She recommends companies determine when to use large firms versus smaller or midsize firms based on factors like matter complexity, risk profile, and cost.

    Alternative fee arrangements (AFAs) have not gained significant traction according to the report, remaining at about 12% of matters. Kristina is an advocate for wider AFA adoption and believes companies need to ask for and consider AFA proposals, especially for appropriate matters. AFAs can help buffer rising hourly rates. She acknowledges AFAs require effort to evaluate and implement but thinks legal operations teams and outside counsel should work together using data and analytics to develop reasonable AFA proposals.

    The report provides new data on international lawyer rates in 22 countries. Rates differ significantly between countries based on factors like a country's economy, political stability, and role in global trade and commerce. Many companies are leveraging international firms for regulatory, litigation, IP, and other legal needs outside the U.S. Benchmark data on rates in different countries provides helpful context, especially when engaging firms in new countries.

    Kristina sees two significant changes on the horizon:

    1. Determining how to properly and effectively employ AI and technology to increase efficiency and reduce costs; and
    2. Continued access to data enabling both in-house and outside counsel to make smarter, data-driven decisions.

    When asked what metric in-house and outside counsel should focus on, Kristina recommends using available data, whether from the survey or a company's own systems. Data is a "two-way street" that should be shared collaboratively to improve decision making.

    Links

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    Email: geekinreviewpodcast@gmail.com
    Music: ⁠⁠⁠⁠Jerry David DeCicca⁠⁠⁠


    ⁠⁠Transcript

    Jun 20, 202335:57
    Curt Meltzer on Why Legal Tech Companies Should Give Back: The Business Case for Pro Bono, A2J, and Community Outreach

    Curt Meltzer on Why Legal Tech Companies Should Give Back: The Business Case for Pro Bono, A2J, and Community Outreach

    This week on The Geek in Review, Marlene Gebauer and Greg Lambert talk with Curt Meltzer, principal of Meltzer Consulting, LLC. Meltzer has over 40 years of experience in the legal and legal tech industry. He discusses his interest in pro bono and community outreach programs in law firms and legal tech companies. He notes that while 95% of AmLaw 200 law firms highlight pro bono work on their websites, many legal tech companies do not prioritize these efforts.

    Meltzer emphasizes that pro bono and community work is good for business. It enhances company culture, helps with recruiting and retaining top talent, and strengthens customer relationships. He argues that legal tech companies should consider emulating their law firm clients' community programs. This could include donating software or services, allowing employees paid time off for volunteer work, or collaborating directly with organizations that law firm clients support.

    Meltzer highlights LexisNexis and Thomson Reuters as leaders in the legal tech industry for their work promoting access to justice and the rule of law around the world. However, he notes that companies of any size can contribute, whether through recognizing employees who volunteer or donating resources. He published a list of 41 legal tech companies that do highlight community outreach on their websites to raise awareness, though he found 39 companies with no mention of such efforts.

    Meltzer sees both opportunities and challenges ahead. Private equity investment in legal tech companies may prioritize short-term profits over community programs. However, companies that do not respond to customer interest in their pro bono and corporate social responsibility initiatives risk losing business to competitors. Overall, Meltzer aims to foster conversations about strengthening the relationship between the legal tech community and the broader community. Corporations that embrace ESG programs and give back to the communities they serve will thrive.


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    Email: geekinreviewpodcast@gmail.com
    Music: ⁠⁠⁠⁠Jerry David DeCicca⁠⁠⁠


    ⁠Transcript⁠

    Jun 13, 202337:33
    Christian Lang on Governing the Rise of LLMs: How LEGA Provides a Safe Space for Law Firms to Use AI (TGIR Ep. 206)

    Christian Lang on Governing the Rise of LLMs: How LEGA Provides a Safe Space for Law Firms to Use AI (TGIR Ep. 206)

    This week we bring in Christian Lang, the CEO and founder of LEGA, a company that provides a secure platform for law firms and legal departments to safely implement and govern the use of large language models (LLMs) like GPT-3, Bard, and Claude. Christian talks with us about why he started LEGA, the value LEGA provides to law firms and legal departments, the challenges around security, confidentiality, and other issues as LLMs become more widely used, and how LEGA helps solve those problems.

    Christian started LEGA after gaining experience working with law firms through his previous company, Reynen Court. He saw an opportunity to give law firms a way to quickly implement and test LLMs while maintaining control and governance over data and compliance. LEGA provides a sandbox environment for law firms to explore different LLMs and AI tools to find use cases. The platform handles user management, policy enforcement, and auditing to give firms visibility into how the technologies are being used.

    Christian believes law firms want to use technologies like LLMs but struggle with how to do so securely and in a compliant way. LEGA allows them to get started right away without a huge investment in time or money. The platform is also flexible enough to work with any model a firm wants to use. As law firms get comfortable, LEGA will allow them to scale successful use cases across the organization.

    On the challenges law firms face, Christian points to Shadow IT as people will find ways to use the technologies with or without the firm's permission. Firms need to provide good options to users or risk losing control and oversight. He also discusses the difficulty in training new lawyers as LLMs make some tasks too easy, the coming market efficiencies in legal services, and the strategic curation of knowledge that will still require human judgment.

    Some potential use cases for law firms include live chatbots, document summarization, contract review, legal research, and market intelligence gathering. As models allow for more tailored data inputs, the use cases will expand further. Overall, Christian is excited for how LLMs and AI can transform the legal industry but emphasizes that strong governance and oversight are key to implementing them successfully.


    Contact Us: 

    Twitter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠@gebauerm⁠⁠⁠⁠, or ⁠⁠⁠⁠@glambert⁠⁠⁠⁠
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    Music: ⁠⁠⁠⁠Jerry David DeCicca⁠⁠⁠

    Listen on mobile platforms:  Apple Podcasts |  Spotify

    ⁠Transcript⁠



    Jun 06, 202352:39
    Michael Bommarito on Preparing Law Students for the Future, and His Quest on Bringing Order to the Chaos of Legal Data (TGIR Ep. 205)

    Michael Bommarito on Preparing Law Students for the Future, and His Quest on Bringing Order to the Chaos of Legal Data (TGIR Ep. 205)

    We talk with Michael Bommarito, CEO of 273 Ventures and well-known innovator and thinker in legal technology and education. Bommarito and his colleague, Daniel Katz were behind GPT-3 and GPT-4 taking the Bar Exam. While he and Katz understand the hype in the media reaction, he states that most of the legal and technology experts who were following the advancements in generative AI, expected the results and had already moved on to the next phase in the use of AI in legal.

    While we talked to Michael a couple of days before the news broke about a lawyer in New York who submitted a brief to the court relying upon ChatGPT to write the brief and not understanding that AI tools can completely make up cases, fact pattern, and citations, he does talk about the fact that we are falling behind in educating law students and other in understanding how to use Large Language Models (LLMs) properly. In fact, if we don't start teaching 1Ls and 2Ls in law school immediately, law schools will be doing a disservice for their students for many years to come.

    Currently, Bommarito is following up his work at LexPredict, which was sold to Elevate Services in 2018, with 273 Ventures and Kelvin.Legal. With these companies, he aims to bring more efficiency and reduce marginal costs in the legal industry through the application of AI. He sees the industry as one that primarily deals with information and knowledge, yet continues to struggle with high costs and inefficiency. With 273 Ventures and Kelvin.Legal, he is building solutions to help firms bring order to the chaos that is their legal data.

    AI and data offer promising solutions for the legal industry but foundational issues around education and adaptation must be addressed. Bommarito explains that decades of inefficiency and mismatched data need to be adjusted before the true value of the AI tools can be achieved. He also believes that while there might have been many false starts on adjustments to the billable hour through things like Alternative Fee Arrangements (AFAs) in the past, the next 12-36 months are going to be pivotal in shifting the business model of the legal industry.


    Contact Us: 

    Twitter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠@gebauerm⁠⁠⁠⁠, or ⁠⁠⁠⁠@glambert⁠⁠⁠⁠
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    Music: ⁠⁠⁠⁠Jerry David DeCicca⁠⁠⁠

    Listen on mobile platforms:  Apple Podcasts |  Spotify

    ⁠Transcript⁠



    May 30, 202340:30
    Unleashing Potential: Laura Terrell on Transforming Legal Careers through Executive Coaching (TGIR Ep. 204)

    Unleashing Potential: Laura Terrell on Transforming Legal Careers through Executive Coaching (TGIR Ep. 204)

    In this episode, we welcome Laura Terrell, an executive coach at ⁠Laura Terrell, LLC⁠, with a rich and varied career history. Laura has served as a Special Assistant to President George W. Bush at the White House, a senior level appointee at the US Department of Justice, an Equity partner at two large global law firms, and in-house counsel at a major global consulting and business advisory firm.

    Laura shares her journey from being a high-profile lawyer to becoming an executive coach. She explains how her fascination with understanding the motivations and challenges of professionals led her to coaching. Laura emphasizes the importance of listening, not just to clients' legal problems, but to their broader professional and personal concerns.

    Laura provides insight into what executive coaching is, describing it as a collaborative process that supports clients in identifying their goals and working towards them. She explains that coaching can feel therapeutic, but it is not therapy. It's about facilitating someone else's goals and supporting their exploration of what's important to them.

    She discusses the various challenges faced by lawyers and C-level executives, including transitioning into leadership roles, building business, managing a team, and adapting to in-house roles. Laura also talks about coaching for lawyers at the start of their careers, helping them navigate the transition from theory to practice and understand the expectations of their roles.

    Laura highlights the common mistake of making assumptions in the legal industry. She encourages lawyers to challenge their assumptions and be open to change, given the evolving nature of the industry.

    In addition to her coaching work, Laura is the General Counsel to a nonprofit and invests in women-owned businesses. She shares her passion for supporting women and learning about different business areas.

    This episode provides valuable insights into the role of executive coaching in the legal industry and how it can support professionals at all stages of their careers. Whether you're a seasoned lawyer, a C-level executive, or a lawyer just starting out, there's something to learn from Laura's experiences and expertise.

    Links:

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    Email: geekinreviewpodcast@gmail.com
    Music: ⁠⁠⁠⁠Jerry David DeCicca⁠⁠⁠

    Listen on mobile platforms:  Apple Podcasts |  Spotify

    ⁠Transcript⁠

    May 22, 202335:28
    LexisNexis Bets Big on AI Transforming the Legal Industry: Jeff Pfeifer on the Launch of Lexis+ AI (TGIR Ep. 203)

    LexisNexis Bets Big on AI Transforming the Legal Industry: Jeff Pfeifer on the Launch of Lexis+ AI (TGIR Ep. 203)

    Many of us have wondered when the big two legal information providers would jump into the Generative AI game, and it looks like LexisNexis is going public first with the launch of Lexis+ AI. We sat down with Jeff Pfeifer, Chief Product Officer for UK, Ireland, Canada, and US, and discuss the launch and what it means for LexisNexis going forward.

    Pfeifer discusses how LexisNexis+ AI offers conversational search, summarization, and drafting tools to help lawyers work more efficiently. The tools provide contextual, iterative search so users can refine and improve results. The drafting tools can help with tasks like writing client emails or advisory statements. The summarization features can summarize datasets like regulations, opinions, and complaints.

    LexisNexis is working with leading AmLaw 50 firms in a commercial preview program to get feedback and input on the AI tools. LexisNexis also launched an AI Insider Program for any interested firms to learn about AI and how it may impact their business. There is definitely demand for the AI Insider Program with over 3,000 law firms already signed up.

    Pfeifer emphasizes LexisNexis' focus on responsible AI. They developed and follow a set of AI principles to guide their product development, including understanding the real-world impact, preventing bias, explaining how solutions work, ensuring human oversight and accountability, and protecting privacy.

    Pfeifer predicts AI tools like LexisNexis Plus AI will increase access to legal services by allowing lawyers and firms to work more efficiently and take on more work. He also sees opportunities to use the tools to help pro se litigants and courts. However, he cautions that the responsible and ethical development and use of AI is crucial.

    Overall, Pfeifer believes AI will greatly improve efficiency and capacity in the legal profession over the next 2-5 years but that responsible adoption of the technology is key.

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    Music: ⁠⁠Jerry David DeCicca⁠

    Transcript



    May 16, 202345:34
    Lawyer vs. AI or Lawyers + AI: Embracing the Future of Legal Practice with BriefPoint.ai's Nathan Walter and Bridget Albiero

    Lawyer vs. AI or Lawyers + AI: Embracing the Future of Legal Practice with BriefPoint.ai's Nathan Walter and Bridget Albiero

    In this riveting episode of our podcast, we delve into the fascinating world of AI in the legal industry with our esteemed guests, Nathan Walter and Bridget Albiero. Walter, a former attorney and founder of BriefPoint.ai, has leveraged his legal expertise and passion for technology to automate the manual processes that often bog down law firms. Bridget Albiero, a User Experience (UX) and User Design (UD) expert, underscores the significance of intuitive design in making these AI tools not just effective, but user-friendly.

    Nathan Walter has been instrumental in creating BriefPoint.ai, a tool designed specifically for lawyers to eliminate the mundane and time-consuming aspects of law practice. With the goals of automating the litigation process from response to appeal, Walter and Albeiro are focused on removing the mundane tasks, such as typing, from the process and allowing the attorneys to focus more on their legal experience and expertise over the grunt work that takes up too much of their time already. 

    However, the success of such tools is not solely dependent on their technical capabilities. Bridget Albiero's role in UX and UD ensures that these AI systems are designed with the end user in mind. With the mission to make legal professionals' lives much easier. Bridget's work is critical in crafting an interface that enables lawyers to accomplish more work in less time, truly maximizing the benefits of AI integration.

    Nathan and Bridget's collaboration epitomizes the intersection of law and technology. They argue that the advent of AI tools, such as BriefPoint.ai, will invariably put pressure on law firms to rethink their traditional billing models. Nathan anticipates a shift towards contingency fee-based and flat fee billings, spurred on by the increased efficiency AI brings to the table. In addition, the ability for the plaintiff's lawyers to reduce the overall amount of work that they need to put into each case, there will be more incentives to take on work that they might otherwise not consider. This has a multitude of effects ranging from flooding courts with more and more cases, to overwhelming defense firms and corporations with a much higher litigation matters, to making working at plaintiff's firms more attractive to associates who don't want to work the number of hours they would need to do in BigLaw firms. 

    Bridget also emphasizes the importance of approaching AI with a balanced perspective. While there are a number of positives when it comes to AI in the legal process, there are also downsides that need to be considered as well. Bridget and Nathan run through some of those issues as well. This thoughtful conversation with Nathan and Bridget offers a unique insight into the future of the legal industry, where AI and human ingenuity work hand in hand. Listen in to learn more about how these changes might soon be reshaping the legal landscape.


    Contact Us:

    Twitter: ⁠⁠@gebauerm⁠⁠, or ⁠⁠@glambert⁠⁠
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    Music: ⁠⁠Jerry David DeCicca⁠

    Transcript


    May 12, 202347:43
    Richard Tromans on the Future of Legal Innovation and The Legal Innovators California Conference (TGIR Ep. 201)

    Richard Tromans on the Future of Legal Innovation and The Legal Innovators California Conference (TGIR Ep. 201)

    In this episode of The Geek in Review Podcast, hosts Greg Lambert and Marlene Gebauer interview Richard Tromans, founder of Tromans Consulting and artificiallawyer.com. Tromans shares his insights on the future of legal innovation and the upcoming Legal Innovators California conference, scheduled to take place on June 7-8 in San Francisco.

    Tromans begins the conversation by highlighting the role of artificial intelligence (AI) in the legal industry. He emphasizes the importance of not only adopting AI but also using it to its full potential to deliver better legal services. He also discusses the potential impact of AI on law firm business models.

    Moving on to the topic of alternative legal service providers (ALSPs), Tromans examines their role in the legal industry and how it has evolved over time. He believes that the future of ALSPs depends on their ability to embrace technology and shift their focus from being mere “bodyshops” to incorporating more sophisticated technology and consulting services.

    The discussion then moves on to the Legal Innovators California conference. Tromans shares his views on what attendees can expect, including insights into the latest legal innovation trends, opportunities for cross-fertilization between private practice and in-house legal teams, and exposure to a variety of ALSPs.

    Tromans also shares information on his own platform, artificiallawyer.com, which provides news, features, and educational videos related to legal innovation, and the upcoming conference. He invites listeners to check out the conference website, legalinnovatorscalifornia.com, for more information.

    Tromans emphasized the need for the legal industry to shift its focus from traditional metrics like profits and risk reduction to a more holistic approach that considers broader outcomes. He believes that this shift will take time, but he is hopeful that the Legal Innovators California conference and similar events will pave the way for the industry to move forward in this direction.



    May 09, 202346:19
    Rethinking Law Firm Strategy: The Road to Growth and Success with Toby Brown and Nita Sanger (TGIR Ep. 200)

    Rethinking Law Firm Strategy: The Road to Growth and Success with Toby Brown and Nita Sanger (TGIR Ep. 200)

    In this 200th episode of The Geek in Review, talk with Toby Brown, CEO and founder of DV8 Legal Strategies, and Nita Sanger, Director of Digital Advisory Services at Cherry Bekaert. There are three rules for growth and success when it comes to large law firms. Strategy, strategy, and strategy.

    Brown emphasizes the need for law firms to develop strategies that prioritize clients and build meaningful relationships. He argues that "firms should start thinking of clients as customers and using customer experience as a way to differentiate themselves." Sanger shares this view, adding that law firms should "focus on value creation, continuous improvement, and customer experience" as they grow and evolve.

    Both guests discuss how law firms can reframe their view of growth, moving away from a talent management perspective and toward a mergers and acquisitions approach. Brown highlights his experience at a prior law firm, where he transformed the lateral partner program into a strategic acquisition initiative. He explains, "this is straight up M&A. So I renamed the program the lateral partner acquisition and integration program. And we treated it much like Apple or Google or any of them would treat their acquisitions."

    Sanger and Brown also touch on the importance of integrating newly acquired practices or firms into the existing business. Sanger emphasizes the need for planning and a program management office to ensure a smooth transition, while Brown shares his success with where hist firm had one of the highest lateral retention rates in the market due to the strategic approach and focus on integration.

    Looking into the future, Sanger envisions law firms as technology-enabled platforms, providing a wider range of services, while Brown expresses concerns about the reluctance of law departments and law firms to prioritize standardized business processes over the individual preferences of frontline lawyers. Despite their differing perspectives on the future, both agree that a focus on strategy, client experience, and growth through mergers and acquisitions will be crucial for the success of law firms moving forward.



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    Music: ⁠⁠Jerry David DeCicca⁠

    Transcript


    May 04, 202348:25
    Revolutionizing Legal Practice: The Impact of CaseText's CoCounsel on Law and Technology with Pablo Arredondo, Evan Shenkman, and Darth Vaughn (TGIR Ep. 199)

    Revolutionizing Legal Practice: The Impact of CaseText's CoCounsel on Law and Technology with Pablo Arredondo, Evan Shenkman, and Darth Vaughn (TGIR Ep. 199)

    In this episode of "The Geek in Review," hosts Greg Lambert and Marlene Gebauer engage in a fascinating conversation with legal technology experts Pablo Arredondo, Evan Shenkman, and Darth Vaughn. They discuss their proactive approach to incorporating AI technology, specifically CaseText's CoCounsel, into their legal practice and business operations.

    Pablo shares, "I think the law is such a fascinating space for this kind of AI because it really brings together two things that are really deep in the human experience, which is language and rules." The guests discuss their experiences in using CoCounsel and its features, such as the ChatGPT feature, which enables them to draft and review documents more efficiently. Evan emphasizes, "The tools are there, and the more that we can sort of get folks up to speed on this stuff, and really help them understand how to use the tools, the better we're all going to be."

    They explain how the integration of AI in their work has led to improved legal outcomes, happier clients, and better work-life balance for attorneys. Darth notes, "The legal industry tends to be a bit of a slow adopter of technology. It's not because we're not smart or we're not hardworking. I think it's because we're risk-averse."

    Pablo, Evan, and Darth emphasize the importance of being passionate about leading the way in legal technology advancements. Pablo encourages listeners to embrace this technology with joy, rather than fear, to truly make a difference in their practice and industry. This positive approach helps them excel and bring others along on this transformative journey.

    The discussion also touches on access to justice issues and how tools like CoCounsel can potentially help bridge the justice gap. By being intentional in utilizing AI technology to assist in pro bono cases, they believe it is possible to make a significant impact on improving access to legal services for those in need. Overall, this episode of "The Geek in Review" offers valuable insights into how AI and CaseText's CoCounsel can revolutionize the legal industry. The guests' passion and joy for embracing cutting-edge technology serve as an inspiration for others to follow suit and lead the way in transforming the legal landscape.


    Contact Us:

    Twitter: ⁠⁠@gebauerm⁠⁠, or ⁠⁠@glambert⁠⁠
    Voicemail: 713-487-7821
    Email: geekinreviewpodcast@gmail.com
    Music: ⁠⁠Jerry David DeCicca⁠

    Transcript

    Apr 26, 202346:39
    Josh Kubicki and the Brainyacts Newsletter - Helping You Keep Up with the Advancements of Generative AI in the Legal Industry (TGIR Ep. 198)

    Josh Kubicki and the Brainyacts Newsletter - Helping You Keep Up with the Advancements of Generative AI in the Legal Industry (TGIR Ep. 198)

    In this episode of The Geek in Review, we interview Josh Kubicki, Director and Professor of Legal Business Design Hub and Entrepreneurship Program at Richmond Law School, and the creator of the daily newsletter Brainyacts. Kubicki discusses the speed of change in legal technology and how it is now measured in days and weeks, rather than years and decades. He also talks about the need to embrace technological changes and how he created Brainyacts to force himself to learn about generative AI in the legal profession. Kubicki shares his experience of writing 100 consecutive days on generative AI and how it has helped him stay accountable and take a deep dive into the terrain. He also discusses the reaction from the industry side of things and where he digs in to find good content.

    The advancements in generative AI tools like GPT, Bard, Bing Chat, and a slew of new products that seem to be launching daily has overwhelmed many of us. Resources like Brainacts helps put a little bit of stability in this time of rapid change. So take advantage of Josh's hours of work on a daily basis and subscribe and read the very practical newsletter.

    Links:


    Contact Us:

    Twitter: ⁠⁠@gebauerm⁠⁠, or ⁠⁠@glambert⁠⁠
    Voicemail: 713-487-7821
    Email: geekinreviewpodcast@gmail.com
    Music: ⁠⁠Jerry David DeCicca⁠

    Transcript

    Apr 20, 202332:02