HEARTY (formerly Writing Threads)

If you or someone you know has been divorced, is going through a divorce or even thinking about one, please give a listen to Heather and Steph's conversation with Jessica Ashley and her signature powerful insights. Steph, Heather, and Jessica keep it very real and go deep in this episode about finding our way through divorce, including personal stories of what happened, and what it's like now and fears we can reframe. With class and grace, Jessica reminds us that we have been working a muscle that we will need, and all we have to do when the next heavy thing comes is remember to use it. She also gives us some powerful tools for communicating how it's going with our kids, and stands firm in the truth that "ultimately, for some us, it (divorce) is about saving our own lives." You don't want to miss this one!

Sidenote: this episode is only marked "explicit" due to our ability to cuss.

Jessica Ashley is rewriting the narrative of divorce. She is the Divorce Coach for Moms, a CDC Certified Divorce Coach®, and helps women thrive through transitions with grace, creativity, and maybe some cussing. On TikTok and Instagram (@divorcecoachformoms), Jessica is a mom's best girlfriend in divorce, posting two videos daily to a rapidly growing audience of women seeking community and clarity. She's the author of The Blended Family Q&A: 400 Questions to Spark Fun and Thought-Provoking Conversations (Rockridge Press, 2021) and three self-published books for divorcing women. Jessica is an award-winning content creator and writer, and teaches a graduate communication class at Northwestern. Tune in to her as a speaker and guest expert on TV, radio and podcasts, including Oprah's Super Soul Sunday Life Class, Martha Stewart Radio, Listen to Your Mother, and Northern Trust. Jessica wears inappropriately high heels to cheer from the sidelines at her children's track meets, soccer matches and gymnastics competitions. She (reluctantly and instinctively) responds to both Jessica and Ashley.

Show notes:

Jessica Ashley

Join Steph and Heather for a candid conversation celebrating ONE YEAR of podcasting, including 47 shows and 10 fantastic talented lovely guests! What have we learned? What do we love about this? Is it proof of growth as humans, the way we can document it here? Yes, that's a big part of it. We've been doing this bare bones project and we're happy with our process (or lack of a process) . P.S. This episode includes Heather's favorite Steph quotes, too!

This week on the Hearty Podcast, Steph records her thoughts from a walk with her dog in the bitter cold and Heather responds from outside a recovery meeting.  What parts of your story do you want to share? What are chapters that don't need writing? How do you get inspired when there's so little clarity? This and more, including what Steph is watching that you need to watch, too. 

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Stephanie shares her heart and thoughts after a long couple of weeks, and then shares about a return to a way of joy, through minestrone. How does this happen? This is what resilience means, maybe. That we struggle so hard and joy and peace still enters. Grace, even in small ways or in seconds. Heather responds to Steph about how it feels for her to struggle so hard and still receive these moments of calm and peace. And of course, both Steph and Heather share what they're reading, watching, or listening to this week. Thank you for being here! 

#mindfulness #struggle #joy 

Heather sends Steph another voice letter in this episode because Steph is down for the count with the stomach flu of all ungodly things. Listen as Heather updates Steph about the memory care situation (or non-memory care situation) with her mom, talks about escaping from home for a one night stay in a hotel alone and how that feels, and fills you (and Steph) in on what good stuff she's been watching, reading, and listening to lately. Thank you for being here. 

#Alzheimers #motherhood #Cults #MemoryCare #DaveGrohl #PokerFace 

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*Trigger Warning* (This episode includes conversation about the depths of depression & suicide/suicidal ideation. Please skip it if you feel vulnerable to the topics, or listen with a trusted loved one. Take care of yourself. We love you.) In this episode we dive deep into a hearty conversation about depression, living through the darkness, and even accepting it. If you or someone you know struggles with their mental health, we sincerely hope this episode is cathartic & helps you more clearly understand yourselves and others. We are not experts, other than in our lived experiences. We are simply telling our stories and reflection on our experiences. Thank you for bearing witness. You are not alone. We love you. 

In Episode 39, Heather and Steph discuss handling the holidays, letting go and what it's like for an ADHD mom (Heather) and kids. And since both Steph and Heather are forever fascinated by cult stories (especially breaking free) they discuss the The Vow on HBO Max. Oh and let's not forget White Lotus which leads to a conversation about what Heather and Steph need in order to have a good night sleep. (Spoiler: It is not like movies and TV, where everyone seems to sleep with lights on and too many pillows.)

#ADHD #TheVow #WCDHT #Anxiety #Holidays 

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Heather and Stephanie share some funny (& sometimes embarrassing) stories and Steph also shares some BIG NEWS! Then stay tuned for suggestions of good ol' blogger friends that have stayed on the Internet (& elsewhere) being funny. It's a "WHO TO FOLLOW" segment of Writing Threads! 

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Heather and Steph process what happens over time with both sexual assault and spiritual trauma, and how both kinds of trauma are triggered by similar things. This is a heavy conversation, but the hope is that it brings some knowledge to people who may not understand, and the comfort of recognition for those that do understand. Thank you for bearing witness. 

#triggerwarning #spiritualtrauma #storytelling #writing #sexualassault #transphobia #keeptranskidsalive #beinganally

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Steph and Heather take turns recording to each other in this episode about setting the bar too high and then feeling defeated by not living up to your own idea of how things should be. Of course, Steph and Heather also discuss what they're reading, watching, and listening to. Thank you for being here! 

Quotes from the show: 

"We need to be mindful of the bars we've set of someone else set, or we've allowed them to be set for us."  - Stephanie Wilson

"We do our best even when it doesn't look like our best from the outside." - Stephanie Wilson

"Keep track of YOUR OWN growth." - from a post-it on Steph's desk

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In this episode Heather shares about a local controversy in her small community, how it feels, what doubts arise, and how it can make her spin with anxiety. Listen as Steph reflects her thoughts and feelings about the ways Heather is feeling and thinking through it all. When do we speak up? When do we take a pause? How do we gauge our reactions and recognize that they are often privileged reactions. What do we really want to be in the world? Big Questions, but maybe sometimes the answers are more simple than our spinning minds would like to make them. 

Am I standing up for marginalized people? Am I responding in healthy ways? Am I going to make mistakes? These (&many more) are the questions we often ask that leave us stepping away quietly to do nothing, and we're not doing that anymore. 

There is a healthy pause, and then a framework for doing better. 

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You never know what we might talk about. In this episode we talk about control, or the lack of it, how we manage to cope when we can, and much more. A topic that arose is sex work, so listen to our thoughts about that cultural debate, huh? This and more, we're glad you're here for it. 

***TRIGGER WARNING** (suicide, suicidal ideation, death, grief, Alzheimer's, chronic mental illness, addiction) 

This episode is holds a lot of sensitive information. Please skip this episode if you are struggling in any way, especially with your mental health or are grieving. If you choose to listen be sure you are supported and have a plan for who to call if you feel vulnerable or alone. Thank you. 

Adrienne Jones joins Steph and Heather for one of their deepest dives yet. Striving to hold Adrienne's heart and words in a safe place, Heather and Steph dive into the tragedies Adrienne has experienced, including the loss of her mother to Alzheimer's disease and her husband to debilitation life-stealing deep depression, after years of being his primary caregiver. Adrienne writes profoundly and exquisitely about her life as she is experiencing it, and links to where to find her can be seen below. Thank you for holding space for Adrienne, and for showing up to learn and grow. Peace to each of you. We love you. 

Come along as Heather and Steph record separately to each other. Steph asks Heather questions about alcoholism and both Heather and Steph talk about a new perspective, "rest as resistance", inspired by the We Can Do Hard Things episode with Tricia Hersey. Steph shares more about burnout as a single mother and how to stay positive when you are too exhausted to imagine things getting easier, smoother, or better. Then stick around for an AMAZING list of shows, podcasts and good books! Thank you for being here! 

Heather records alone and asks Steph some questions, one light and silly, and one more serious and deep (of course). Steph responds and shares more of her story and Heather tells a little more about hers as well. This episode was inspired by our friend and listener, Riley. Come along! 

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Jen Kanable lives in Chicago and Steph’s on the west coast, but they’ve remained BFFs since 1982! After high school Jen went to college and started her career when Steph took the marriage/motherhood route. Listen in to their conversation about what happened then, how life is now, and everything in between.

When’s the last time you had a one on one with your childhood bestie?

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Due to not being able to line up a time to be together to record, Steph brilliantly comes up with the idea to record separately, like sending off little letters to each other. Both Heather and Steph share pieces of writing, thoughts about the week, and of course, what they're listening to, watching, and/or reading. 

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Heather and Steph talk about having older kids now, and launching them; what they may regret and how to let go and be less hard on themselves. They aren't experts, but love to talk openly and honestly about how all of this feels. Also, for real...how is Steph's house so peaceful? (She answers this and Heather continues to be in awe.) And of course, stay tuned for an update on what Steph and Heather are reading, watching, and listening to. 

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Heather and Steph discuss the classic "Five Love Languages" and last week's podcast episode of We Can Do Hard Things titled, "WHY ARE THERE NO PICTURES OF US?" Heather and Steph love We Can Do Hard Things, but didn't really love that episode, and in today's episode they discuss why. This brings up communication being key to so many of the questions we ponder about relationships, and then communication comes up during several other topics, including parenting kids with ADD/ADHD and how to get them on board with contributing around the house. Steph is brilliant. 

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Pamela Dayton is back to talk spirituality, religion, faith and more with Steph! Pamela has a Master's of Divinity. She's a Christian. She's also an unashamed liberal, if we have to use such labels. Listen and Pamela and Steph share how they really feel, what they struggle with, and what they believe love really is. 

Pamela earned a Master of Arts in Social Justice and Theology in 2015, and a Master of Divinity in 2019. Pamela and three friends founded Free Hugs ROC, based on the Free Mom Hugs groups popping up around the country. In 2020 she served as a member of the Emotional Support Team that accompanied the racial justice protests in Rochester, New York, that began after Daniel Prude was murdered by the Rochester Police Department. Pamela lives in Rochester, New York, with her family. 

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Should it be said? Should it be said by me? Should it be said now? When trying to decide if we should respond to some Internet drama this week, we decided the answers to those questions is yes. Most of the time the answers are no, no, and no. Not much needs to be said about any kind of drama. But this particular situation hits close to home and puts people in harm's way. With Stephanie's personal experience as a mother of a transgender teen, it was time for us to speak up against harmful misinformation and to talk about how devastating it can be when people with large followings make statements against entire marginalized groups while also throwing several other fragile and vulnerable groups under the bus. It was an easy answer for us. We need to speak up, no matter how small our audience. Using our voices and platforms to teach and listen and grow is our goal. So this episode is our response to a blog post by a writing mother we once viewed as a supportive of all people. Please bear witness to this conversation with an open heart, and join us in keeping transgender kids alive. 

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Our guest Pamela Dayton and co-host Stephanie both have transgender kids, and in this episode they speak openly about their experience, knowledge, and love for their kids exactly as they are. Come along and learn how to love better, more fully, and with more grace. If you haven't had the opportunity to know a transgender person and feel you know very little about what "transgender" even means, this is an amazing opportunity to come to a place of better understanding. When we know more, we do better. (This episode also includes conversation about doing divorce as well as possible and why we don't have to call our marriages "failed" if we're divorced.) Thank you for being here. 

Pamela Dayton has had a decade of transformational experiences. And that is not to say that the first 30-something years of her life were lacking, but the past 10 really showed out. In 2013, Pamela traveled to Beirut, Lebanon, to work alongside Lebanese NGO “Heart for Lebanon.” She was part of a medical clinic team that visited Syrian refugee camps, and her role was to make portraits of refugees and document life in refugee camps. This trip ignited an awareness and passion for social justice.

Since that time, Pamela earned a Master of Arts in Social Justice and Theology in 2015, and a Master of Divinity in 2019. Pamela and three friends founded Free Hugs ROC, based on the Free Mom Hugs groups popping up around the country. In 2020 she served as a member of the Emotional Support Team that accompanied the racial justice protests in Rochester, New York, that began after Daniel Prude was murdered by the Rochester Police Department.

Currently Pamela is completing a one-year chaplain residency at the University of Rochester Medical center, and is looking for some sort of gainful employment. She is also working on a series of personal essays; when she is not typing, her fingers are crossed that they will evolve into book form and be published.

Pamela gave birth to four babies: Oliver, Jack, Henry, and Elliott, who are now the most amazing teenagers on the planet. She and their dad also picked up a bonus kid during the pandemic, and he fits their family perfectly. Pamela lives in Rochester with her partner, Scott, and their four cats. For fun, she knits, converses with her houseplants, and paints pictures of photos her friends post on social media. Pamela loves coffee, cheese, and naps.

You can find Pamela at: www.pamelabdayton.com

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Come along as Heather acts like a giddy child (and then ends up crying) simply because she's in the presence of someone who knew her when she was a literal giddy, giggling child. Riley Worth is one of Heather's oldest friends. He's also the most curious and engaging conversationalist Heather knows. Riley is a former journalist, a current teacher, a writer, and a very good friend. He's funny and kind and sometimes ridiculous, which makes him even better. Topics include but are not limited to: Riley admitting he used to read Young Miss Magazine, his thoughts on the Big Burly Dude and soul mates, why he lives in Saudi Arabia, aging, listening to women, and so much more. Don't miss it! See the show notes below for all the podcasts and people mentioned in this episode. P.S. Please forgive Heather for saying Anatomy of the Heart rather than Atlas of the Heart (Brene Brown) (Link below) 

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Do you feel like the term "self care" is just another way of saying, "you need to do more"? Well then, this episode is for you. Come along as Steph and Heather discuss what it feels like to hear you need to take better care of yourself when you're already drowning, when you can't think straight, let alone decide to do something to take care of yourself. Heather asked friends on Facebook to answer the question, "What are some obstacles to self care for you?" and many of the raw and honest responses are shared in this episode. And stay tuned for what Steph and Heather are reading and watching that they love. Thank you for being here! 

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This beautiful conversation with death scholar and advocate for death education, Taya Dunn Johnson, can't be missed. We are all affected by the depths of grief in our lifetimes. Come along as Taya walks us through why we feel the way we do, what can help, and much more. 

Taya Dunn Johnson is an author, autism advocate, producer and director.  In 2012, Taya was widowed with a small child at age 35 when her husband died, then 2 years later she lost her father. Taya has become a death scholar and advocate for death education. Her new podcast I Can’t Imagine: Conversations on Death, Grief, and Trauma just launched and she will be having conversations about generational trauma, mental illness, and non-death losses are important, too, and Taya will be talking openly about all of those things.

Quotes from this episode:
On death due to addiction: "You are heartbroken and hurt so much more because you couldn't save him. No one can save someone else." - Taya Dunn Johnson

"The depth of pain relates back to the efforts to save, and that's part of the problem." - Taya Dunn Johnson

"Guilt serves no one. You have to unravel it." - Taya Dunn Johnson 

"The pain associated (with grief) is directly proportionate to the amount of love for that person." - Taya Dunn Johnson

"Grief comes in many different forms, and it looks different on every person." - Taya Dunn Johnson

In this 16th episode of Writing Threads, Heather and Steph process grief. After the recent loss of a loved one, Heather shares some of what happened and how it feels. Taya Dunn Johnson was scheduled to be the Writing Threads special guest, but because of technical difficulties, Taya will be on the next episode, talking more about grief and trauma. Her guest spot was scheduled long before Heather and her family's recent loss. What a gift it will be to have Taya respond to today's episode about grief, alcoholism, and letting go. Stay tuned for that one next time. 

#grief #addiction #alcoholism #trauma

Laugh with us as Steph tells her stories about keeping people in line at the movie theater. Super random and hilarious.
Then listen as we discuss getting depleted, finding our reserves and what helps, Father's Day, and what we've been reading and watching that's GOOD. Also: finger-waving, Bottle Caps, Peeps, grief, Brandi Carlile's superpowers and more. 

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In this episode, Steph shares what she's learning about herself and her background after watching a cult documentary. This brings up some pain, more questions, and a great conversation. Join us as we continue to explore what it means to follow the threads through our lives and tell our stories. 

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Heather and Steph spend a little time catching up on all things reading and streaming, Heather's trip to South Carolina to celebrate her daughter, and an update on her daughter's battle with Lyme disease. Once again, come along for the real talk and honesty. 

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Heather and Steph talk to the Listen To Your Mother founder and Listen Life Coaching life coach, Ann Imig. Her wise words are a balm while the conversation turns to being ourselves, accepting ourselves and still growing while the world spins with awful things like Uvalde. Ann talks about "acting as if" (you are doing the thing you know you need to do but can't seem to do) until it creates action, and if it doesn't...great news: it will still be good for your well-being and for your work in the world. Topics include but are not limited to: beating ourselves up, the Velveeten Rabbit (complete with a theater fire story in which Steph IS the Velveteen Rabbit), common sense gun regulations--Moms Demand Action, forgiving ourselves, using our voices, and more! (Stay tuned for a bonus clip that was cut from the episode but we couldn't resist sharing. It's filled with laughter. We all need that now.) 

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Trigger Warning: #suicide #mentalillness #rape #sexualassault #suicidalideation #suicidalthinking 

In this episode, Heather and Steph talk with their friend Casey Coombs about her decision to abandon shame and stigma in exchange for treatment and telling the whole truth. Casey leaves on Tuesday, and she recorded with us on Saturday afternoon. This is her second treatment, or "sad camp" as she calls it, and her courage and candor is a balm for those who struggle with their own mental health and and/or addiction, or know someone who does. 

#majordepression #generalizedanxietydisorder #addiction #BPD #CognitiveBehavioralTherapy #DialecticalBehaviorTherapy #alcoholism #shame #resilience #higherpower #recovery #stigma 

Quotes from this episode: 

“If this is part of my story, I’m going to be all in on it.” - Casey Coombs

"I did what felt good, or made me not feel what I didn't want to feel." - Casey Coombs

"I ended up exactly where I needed to be." - Casey Coombs

"Take any kind of mental health diagnosis and any kind of addictive personality and it's fuel on a fire." - Casey Coombs

"It's very important for me to say that addiction is not just pills, needles, alcohol..." - Casey Coombs

"I felt like I had been filled up on enough skills and coping to survive, and I just ran out of it. I ran out of it. I'm out of it. It was being depleted faster than I could restore it." - Casey Coombs 

"There are so many sown out there that feel like this, and think this is just how you're meant to feel, and it isn't." - Casey Coombs

"I think we all know the feeling when we are absolutely running on fumes. If you stand still it just absolutely washes over you how tired you are." -Casey Coombs 

"There's a reason they use the word surrender in recovery programs. It's because you do. Because I can't do this anymore. And I need help." - Casey Coombs 

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In this episode, Heather tells Steph (and you) about the day's beautiful and hard truth-telling with her daughter. But before that, Steph and Heather discuss what it feels like to be a grown-up that doesn't feel "successful" in many ways. This is an episode about our hearts and minds, our pure and true struggle, and the ways we come through to the other side. Thank you for being here with us, friends. 

#divorce #childrenofdivorce #truth #coparenting #parenting #motherhood #wcdht #lizgilbert #debrogers #floridawoman #betterthings #dateline #thestaircase #underthebannerofheaven #fundamentalism #maliburising #chanelmiller 

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This week Heather and Steph talk about self-care, but not self-care. What do we do when the world is constantly crashing in on us with all of its demands? Well, first of all, we can't stand the term "self-care" because HOW? Maybe self-care is really just self-love, without so much over-thinking. Maybe self-love is harder for some of us because of what we were taught when we were small. Maybe we don't have the answers, but we always have honesty. Join us as we discover what "spiritual fitness" is and what it means when we think of self-love.

Heather and Steph share the ways trauma, hardship, struggle and illness have played a part in their motherhood journeys. Heather opens up about coming to terms with her daughter's latest diagnosis and what it means for the future. Both Heather and Steph share what they've been listening to (books and podcasts) and learning from, and of course, share what they've been watching, just for fun. Join them for a ride through real life, with honest conversation about hard things sprinkled with grace dust. 

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Heather and Steph about the ways every divorce is as different than every marriage, and every single mother's story is unique. Heather shares more about the end of her marriage, what she would do differently, and how it's going now with co-parenting. It's whole lot of facing the truth and keeping it real (and sometimes silly).

SHOW NOTES:

Heather and Steph talk about motherhood, things that work and don't work with teens, with their usual candid and honest flair. On everything from Mario Kart and Monster drinks, to big failures and coming back from them. Steph shares more about being a mother to a transgender child/teen and what happened on the night she was told her daughter's truth. 

"I think it's time to lower my pain tolerance." - Stephanie Wilson

"Maybe this week feeling hard is a result of my being more mindful of that...of lowering my pain tolerance." - Stephanie 

"As a mom, I'm an over-seer of your life." - Stephanie to Luna

"The most important thing you can do when you're being human and making mistakes is to talk to someone about it. It's not really even about whether or not you did the thing, it's about whether or not you have held it inside, because that doesn't turn out so great." - Heather Westberg King 

"If you want them to keep coming to you and you want them to keep the communication open and you want to be aware of what they're actually doing, you can't freak out." - Stephanie 

"I want them to know my door is open and they can enter it and leave freely...without fear." - Steph

"I need to give them me, and not a version of me that I think I should be." - Steph

"The more I'm open and the more honest and vulnerable, the more open and honest they are with me." - Steph

"I am becoming all the time, I often change my mind about big and small things, about things I think and things I want to do. That used to really bother me, that I'm showing my kids I'm not even really sure of who I am or what I want to do and I'm just showing my kids how to flounder, or something. But now I'm like, no, I'm showing them how to live. This is how life is and we don't ever stop evolving and changing and growing." - Heather 

Heather and Steph share what resonated with each of them this past week and why. They cover the world of podcasts, movies, books, and more. Listen as Heather and Steph discuss their favorites, and then uncover that most everything they're sharing has some common threads, like deep human connection and how it happens, even with someone who has Alzheimer's (Heather's mom). Thank you for listening! 

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This week we're making it a little lighter around here. It's Heather's turn to talk as Steph asks some fun questions like "What did you want to be when you grew up?" and "Who were you in high school?" Both Heather & Steph share a church mini skirt story. And so much more! 

Shout outs to Jenny and Kelly this week. You know who you are. 

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