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About Art

About Art

By Heidi Zuckerman

Heidi Zuckerman is a globally recognized leader in contemporary art and the first woman to build two art museums. About Art has Heidi in courageous authentic conversations with people she finds interesting to talk about their lives, values, and always about why art matters! Join Heidi, an inspiring story teller, on the journey to connect to art and make lives better!
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62. Allison M. Glenn

About ArtApr 06, 2021

00:00
01:03:43
137. Amanda McCreight

137. Amanda McCreight

Digital content creator Amanda McCreight specializes in digital storytelling, utilizing photography and filmmaking as her medium to challenge conventional norms, guide discourse, and foster meaningful connections. McCreight started the brand Aytuhzee noting that she “wanted to create a persona around feeling free to try everything from A to Z. Aytuhzee is many things…the Full Expression of whatever medium I’m feeling called to!” Additionally, she is the Co-Founder and Creative Director of All Day Running Co. where she collaborates with entrepreneur Jesse Itzler to curate immersive wellness and running experiences. Together they craft unforgettable events that leave participants not only with memories, but also with a newfound sense of empowerment. McCreight is a self-described lover, dreamer, and existential thinker dedicated to living the full spectrum of life’s color and emotions in art and in business.
She and Zuckerman discuss course correcting your life, saying yes, living a life full of color, finding middle ground, creating brands, giving things your all, flow state, balancing consumption and creation, what we deserve, a vision board coming to life, the first yes, speaking things into existence, public pitching ideas, practicing looking, and why art matters!

Mar 19, 202456:20
136. Charles Long

136. Charles Long

Since the early 1990’s, Charles Long has explored the possibilities of sculpture through a rich vocabulary of materials, colors, images and shapes. Incorporating references to art history, popular culture, nature and his own experiences, Long’s work embraces modernist convention as a means of connecting inner and outer realities, forming pathways between one’s mental and bodily experiences and the surrounding environment. Through his many bodies of work over the years, the artist has consistently confronted formal parameters associated with sculpture as obstacles to push beyond, seeing modernism’s trajectory as unfinished and full of possibility.
He and Zuckerman spoke about metaphysical research, why things are happening, the secret of teaching, refinding art on his own terms, psychedelics, Donald D. Hoffman of UC Irvine, “wisdoms of the masters” and access to pure being, what it’s like to die, what he has to offer, wanting everything he makes to be sacred, not finishing anything, and making art that you don’t have to talk about!

Mar 05, 202454:11
135. LJ Rader

135. LJ Rader

New York-based writer LJ Rader is the person behind the social media account ArtButMakeItSports, which features images of sports compared to fine art. He works full-time in the sports world as a Director of Product at a sports data and technology company.
He and Zuckerman discuss his curatorial choices, unique moments, a sports related lens, sports equality, feedback he gets, his favorite artists, his image filing system, feelings on AI, meme fuel, the legacy of art, and of course why art matters!

Feb 20, 202456:09
134. Rodney McMillian

134. Rodney McMillian

American artist Rodney McMillian’s paintings, sculptures, videos, and performances address the African-American experience while examining race, gender, and class in a broader political context. Aspects of his work negotiates between the body of a political nature and the politic of a bodily nature. McMillian modifies familiar and found objects into new – he offers an alternative reality that reveals how past ideas relate to the present. He is now a professor of sculpture at the School of Arts and Architecture at UCLA. McMillian’s work can be found in the permanent collections of the Los Angeles County Museum of Art, UCLA Hammer Museum, and the Museum of Contemporary Art Los Angeles, The Orange County Museum of Art, among others.
He and Zuckerman discuss the role of chance in his paintings, intimacy and residue, what landscape can mean, issues of class and taste, retitling, existing within uncomfortable contexts, “hitting it on the one,” napping, the physicality of making art, the present moment, working with a voice coach, and the thrill of accomplishing hard things!

Feb 06, 202449:47
133. Stephanie Stebich

133. Stephanie Stebich

Art historian and curator Stephanie Stebich is the Margaret and Terry Stent Director of the Smithsonian American Art Museum. She was named director of the Smithsonian American Art Museum in January 2017. Stebich serves on the Smithsonian’s Capital Board as well as the Smithsonian-London Strategic Advisory Board. In May 2018, she was named co-chair of the Smithsonian American Women’s History Initiative. Before coming to Washington, D.C., Stebich was executive director of the Tacoma Art Museum for 12 years. Under her leadership, the museum underwent a major renovation that doubled its exhibition space, and secured major collection gifts, including the Haub Family Collection of Western American Art, 300 masterworks from the 1790s to the present by Charles Bird King, Thomas Moran, Frederick Remington, Georgia O’Keeffe and others. She was assistant director of the Minneapolis Institute of Arts from 2001 to 2004 and assistant director at the Cleveland Museum of Art from 1995 to 2001.
She and Zuckerman discuss feeling at home in museums, taking risks, making a museum free, house favorites, why museums buy certain things, finding the optimal location for an artwork, having a broad definition of art to include craft, mentorship, how to get a job, speaking up while active listening, America as a hopeful experiment, artists as makers of hope!

Jan 30, 202434:16
132. Cliff Einstein

132. Cliff Einstein

Cliff Einstein is the founding partner of Dailey Advertising with a noted history of creating positions for some of the world’s major brands. Throughout a career spanning a half century he has received a long list of industry honors, among them, the American Advertising Federation naming him their Leader of the West.  Cliff is Chair Emeritus of the Board of the Los Angeles Museum of Contemporary Art (MOCA)  and a Trustee of Otis College of Art and Design. He is a recipient of the California Governor’s Victims’ Service Award for his work with the Rape Foundation, and he is the Marketing Chair of the Jewish Community Foundation. Cliff and his late wife, Mandy, have been listed in Art and Antiques “100 Collectors of America,” and they have been featured in a wide range of international publications as noted collectors and patrons of contemporary art.
He and Zuckerman discuss his collection of 100 knives, the difference between commercial and fine art, his rules for collecting including meeting the art before you meet the artist, what roles he and Mandy each play in forming their collection, asking people what they like, not to be missed sites to shop for art, what work he bought back after selling it, being philanthropic and what people want back for what they give, his relationship with MoCA and an analysis of the current Los Angeles museum environment, and buying things you don’t instantly like!

Jan 09, 202401:00:02
131. Mindy Shapero

131. Mindy Shapero

Mindy Shapero creates lively, meticulous sculptural and canvas works comprised of materials as various as studio scraps, spray paint, gold, copper, and silver leaf. Her works on canvas are formed by stencils sourced from discarded sculptural bits, and portions of those stencils eventually find their way back into the artist‘s sculptural work. In this process, Shapero transmutes negatives from past sculptural pieces into positive shapes that form the bedrock of her cosmic abstractions. Shapero’s repeating motifs—irregular rectangles and ovals that resemble “scars” or ruptures in the surface— are highlighted through the artist’s application of delicate gold leaf, an adornment dating back more than 8,000 years in the canon of art history. She is interested  in the combination of old and new techniques. Shapero’s techniques harken back to the artist’s personal history rooted in the DIY aesthetics of punk counterculture.
She and Zuckerman discuss her approach to narrative, spirituality, alchemy and transformation, surprising herself, the responsibility of being climate aware, repurposing, being a hoarder, titling as poetry, duality, color as everything, how hard it is to talk about art, the process of making, rules, and making what you want to see!

Dec 26, 202352:55
130. Oliver Barker

130. Oliver Barker

Sotheby's Principal Auctioneer Oliver Barker joined Sotheby’s in 1994 moving to the Contemporary Art department in 2001, rising to Chairman, Sotheby’s Europe, Senior International Specialist in 2016. He is a key figure on the rostrum at the major auctions in both London and New York. Barker oversaw the iconic sale of Banksy's "Love is in the Bin," famously shredded by the artist moments after hammering for $1.04 million in 2018. Additionally, Barker participated in the livestream hybrid auctions – The Webby Awards introduced during the pandemic. Notable achievements include the sales of Francis Bacon's "Triptych Inspired by the Oresteia of Aeschylus'' for $84.6 million, Botticelli's "Portrait of a Young Man Holding a Roundel" for $92.2 million, and this year, the sales of Impressionist, Modern, and Contemporary art that brought  $597 million in a single night.
He and Zuckerman discuss three decades in a career, representing the company and the vendors, relationships with objects, the aesthetic experience, how should one start a collection, art as a place of solace, long term relationships, the YBA and the London art world of the early 1990s, the work that happens outside of the sales, the profound influence of art, and little know aspects of how he spends his personal life!

Dec 12, 202356:31
129. Charlotte Burns

129. Charlotte Burns

Journalist Charlotte Burns is the founder of Studio Burns, which creates and commissions original editorials and provides strategic advice. She is also the co-founder of the Burns Halperin Report, which analyses equity in museums and the art market. She also produces the weekly podcast "The Art World: What If...?!" for Art& at the New York advisory, Schwartzman&. The second season of the show launches 18 January 2024. Previously the executive editor of In Other Words, a weekly newsletter and podcast (2016-20), she was the US news and Market editor for The Art Newspaper (2009-16) and has written for publications including The Guardian, Cultured and Monocle magazineBefore that she worked for galleries including Anthony d’Offay and Hauser & Wirth.


She and Zuckerman discuss podcasting, grace in space, the imagined idea of America, not feeling at home, maternity, having ego leave, living life, how dreams need to evolve, hope and dread, an appetite for conversations, and talking about feelings!

Nov 28, 202301:02:12
128. Fred Tomaselli

128. Fred Tomaselli

Fred Tomaselli has shown his work in museums, biennials and galleries around the world, including MoMA, MoCA, the MET and SFMoMa. Biennials include the Whitney Biennial, Berlin Biennial, and the Lyon Biennial. Solo museum shows include the Whitney Museum at Philip Morris, The Aspen Art Museum, The Brooklyn Art Museum, and the Orange County Art Museum. Tomaselli is known for his intricate, engulfing images of earthly and cosmic realms made by suspending collage and painted imagery as well as an unorthodox array of real-world materials in thick layers of clear, epoxy resin. These works on wood panels mix snippets of botanical, ornithological and anatomical illustrations cut from books and magazines, prescription pills, medicinal herbs and psychoactive plants with the artist’s own designs. Tomaselli sees his mixture of psychedelic imagery and substances as windows into hallucinatory universes: “It is my ultimate aim to seduce and transport the viewer into the space of these pictures while simultaneously revealing the mechanics of that seduction.”
He and Zuckerman discuss a shared love of nature, what art can do, what drugs and birding have in common, the shelf life of art, altering perception and dislocated, settling for oblivion, nocturnal experiences, community, a sample choir, and AI!

Nov 14, 202355:60
127. Tim Griffin

127. Tim Griffin

Tim Griffin is the Executive Director of the Industry. He joined the organization in June 2023 and continues the organization’s commitment to reimagining art’s relationship with its publics. Previously, Griffin was executive director and chief curator at The Kitchen (2011–2021) where he developed projects across disciplines with artists such as Chantal Akerman, ANOHNI, Charles Atlas, Abraham Cruzvillegas, Joan Jonas, Ralph Lemon, Aki Sasamoto, Wadada Leo Smith, Tyshawn Sorey, and Danh Vo, among others.  On the occasion of The Kitchen’s 50th anniversary, Griffin initiated a capital campaign to renovate its building as a platform for the next generation of artists, raising roughly $22 million. From 2003 to 2010, Griffin was editor of Artforum, organizing special issues on performance; the museum in a contemporary context; art and poetry; and art and commerce. His own writing has appeared in publications from Bomb to Vogue, including catalogue essays on choreographer Maria Hassabi (MoMA, 2016), artist Ralph Lemon (Guggenheim Museum, 2016), and John Baldessari (Tate Modern, 2009). Griffin also edited a volume of selected writings on Wade Guyton (JRP), and has a forthcoming book on artists’ changing engagement with site-specificity (Sternberg Press). In 2015, he was awarded the insignia of chevalier of the Order of Arts and Letters.
He and Zuckerman discuss contemporary opera, popular audiences, how we know what we see, the luxury of clarity, art criticism, proximity, anxiety around popular culture, being in partnership in the art world and rethinking your own habits!

Oct 31, 202353:29
126. Ebony L. Haynes

126. Ebony L. Haynes

Writer and curator Ebony L. Haynes, originally from Canada, is a Director at David Zwirner gallery in New York and runs 52 Walker. Haynes was a recent visiting curator and critic for Yale School of Fine art in the Painting and Printmaking class of 2021. She also runs an online “school” where free professional practice classes are offered to Black students, world wide.  Prior to joining David Zwirner, Haynes served as director at Martos Gallery and Shoot The Lobster NY & LA, and was responsible for many critically acclaimed exhibitions including Invisible Man, epigenetic, EBSPLOITATION, and The Worst Witch. Haynes sits on the boards of the New Art Dealers Association, and Cassandra Press.
She and Zuckerman discuss sliding door moments, the pitching of 52 Walker, good versus great curating, the importance of a true team, approaching studio visits, research based practices, writing by hand, and what she hopes for!

Oct 17, 202350:24
125. Tony Lewis

125. Tony Lewis

Chicago-based artist Tony Lewis’s practice focuses on the relationship between semiotics and language to confront social and political topics such as race, power, communication, and labor. Lewis creates drawings using graphite, pencil and paper, mediums the artist uses to trace and develop abstract narratives and reflections on the notion of the gestural. By pushing the boundaries of drawing and the possibilities of abstraction, he expands the use of the “material” of language. He currently has a solo exhibition at the Orange County Museum of Art/OCMA.
He and Zuckerman discuss labor and work, changing the way you think about making art, saying yes, listening to music on repeat, “keep going,” things that exist outside of art, motivational language, caring enough, nicknames, and the precision of human nature!

Oct 03, 202353:24
124. Lauren Haynes

124. Lauren Haynes

American curator Lauren Haynes is Director of Curatorial Affairs and Programs at the Queens Museum. Prior to joining the Queens Museum, Haynes worked at museums across the United States including Crystal Bridges Museum of American Art and the Studio Museum in Harlem. Haynes is a specialist in contemporary art by artists of African descent – her curatorial vision aims to challenge traditional narratives and push boundaries within the art world, embracing both established artists and emerging talents, bridging the gap between tradition and innovation. Haynes was a 2018 Center for Curatorial Leadership fellow and a recipient of a 2020 ArtTable New Leadership Award. Since 2022, Haynes has been a member of the board of the Association of Art Museum Curators (AAMC) and AAMC Foundation.
She and Zuckerman discuss having work study jobs at college museums, navigating artist interactions and needs, deliberate care, growing and developing a contemporary program, tv as a hobby, dreaming of rest and moments of pause, looking for patterns, and how kids confidently talk about art!

Sep 19, 202352:12
123. Shigeru Ban

123. Shigeru Ban

Shigeru Ban is a Pritzker Prize winning architect and humanitarian. Ban has developed a unique style known for its blend of traditional Japanese architecture with elements of American Modernism. One of Ban's notable achievements is his pioneering work in using recycled materials, particularly paper tubes, as building components. He believes that architecture should serve the needs of society, especially in times of crisis. Notable projects include the Paper Dome in Japan, which provided temporary housing after an earthquake, the Cardboard Cathedral in New Zealand, Centre Pompidou-Metz in France, the Japan Pavilion Expo 2000 in Germany, and the Aspen Art Museum. Ban’s architectural practice showcases a harmonious blend of functionality, aesthetics, and environmental consciousness.
Ban and Zuckerman discuss humanitarian architecture, using wood, escaping from the influences of our teachers, inside and outside, experience sequencing, looking for problems to solve by design, form finding, not being about style, and humbleness!

Sep 05, 202350:20
122. Sumayya Vally

122. Sumayya Vally

Sumayya Vally is the founder and principal of Counterspace, a Johannesburg-based architecture and research studio. Counterspace is committed to developing a design language that acknowledges and resonates with the African continent. In 2019, Counterspace was invited to design the 20th Serpentine Pavilion in London, making Vally the youngest architect ever to win this internationally renowned commission. She recently curated the first Islamic Arts Biennale in Jeddah. Vally is currently collaborating on the design of the Ellen Johnson Sirleaf Presidential Center for Women and Development in Monrovia, Liberia, the first presidential library dedicated to a female head of state, where she will oversee the scenography, pavilions, and exhibition spaces.
She and Zuckerman spoke about imagination, fear of design, metaphors of healing, dialogue with place, the first Islamic Arts Biennale, having a life in a city, ingredients of gathering, architecture of ritual, dynamic restoration, everyone is welcome, beauty, gathering and belonging, and having a practice of hope and optimism!

Aug 22, 202356:22
121. Thom Mayne

121. Thom Mayne

Pritzker Prize-winning American architect and educator Thom Mayne is the founder of Morphosis, an innovative architecture, urbanism, and design collective. Named after the Greek term for ‘to form or be in formation’ – Morphosis has gained recognition for its sustainable designs. Notable projects include the Perot Museum of Nature and Science in Dallas, Emerson College in Los Angeles, New York’s Cooper Union building, and the Orange County Museum of Art. Alongside his architectural practice, Mayne has been actively involved in education and academia, as he played a pivotal role in establishing the Southern California Institute of Architecture.
He and Zuckerman spoke about how LA is a midwestern city, the museum as a cultured event, community making, formed architecture, American architects, having a voice, being what you are instead of what you do, license to dream, authentically seeing yourself, being a humanist, and the profound and enduring power of artistic activity!

Aug 08, 202356:14
120. Sarah Cain

120. Sarah Cain

Artist Sarah Cain creates playful, abstract paintings and installations that feature a bold use of color, improvisation, and a variety of perspectives. Cain redefines abstraction in feminist terms as an architecture for transformative, embodied, emotive experience – intentionally subverting male-dominated art historical traditions. Known for expansive, site-specific murals, often she makes decisions about the palette, gestures, and composition onsite.
She and Zuckerman spoke about personal relationships with the past, site-specific projects, how color operates as a tool, physical space, engaging with art, the lineage of abstract painters, the relationship between titles and images, and how we can find awe in our daily lives!

Jul 25, 202355:39
119. Narsiso Martinez

119. Narsiso Martinez

Artist Narsiso Martinez details the vital, but often unseen, labor carried out by farmworkers in the United States in his mixed media installations, predominantly using discarded cardboard produce boxes. His work resonates with the spirit of social realism from the 1930s – drawing from his personal experiences as a former farmworker.  In 2023, Martinez was honored with the prestigious Frieze Impact prize for his exploration of the immigrant experience within the agriculture industry.

He and Zuckerman spoke about how art saved his life, giving voice to unrepresented communities, freedom and responsibility, reducing fear, giving back, being a hero, and having tomorrow!

Jul 11, 202349:08
118. Allison Berg

118. Allison Berg

Allison Berg, Founder and Executive Director of the A&L Berg Foundation, is a lawyer turned arts and culture writer, philanthropist, museum trustee, art collector,  producer  and more. Her work is informed by the desire to ensure everyone has access to equity in career pathways along with inclusive platforms for their narratives. Allison is LALA Magazine’s former executive editor and has contributed to Design LA, Hamptons, Gotham, Cultured and C magazines. She was a Producer of “The Art of Making It” documentary and is a Trustee with the Boards of the Los Angeles County Museum of Art (LACMA,) American Friends of the Israel Museum (AFIM), The Mistake Room (TMR) and The Los Angeles Football Club Foundation.
She and Zuckerman discuss getting to know art over time, being present, securing equity for under represented populations, why she serves as a museum trustee, making art accessible, connecting art and athletes, and how art creates understanding!

Jun 27, 202357:49
117. Simphiwe Ndzube

117. Simphiwe Ndzube

Simphiwe Ndzube stitches together a subjective account of the Black experience in past and present-day South Africa from a mythological perspective creating universes with his sculptures, paintings, and assemblages. Living and working between Los Angeles and Cape Town, South Africa, Ndzube’s work was recently on view in the California Biennial 2022: Pacific Gold exhibition at the Orange County Museum of Art/OCMA. 


He and Zuckerman discuss the hero’s journey, magical realism,  mothers, play, love, community, opportunity, and apartheid.


This conversation was recorded in front of a live audience at OCMA and includes some of their questions at the end of the episode.

Jun 13, 202353:59
116. Catherine Opie

116. Catherine Opie

Catherine Opie is an American photographer known for her portraits and landscapes that explore the complexities of contemporary life. Opie documents how individuals interact with the spaces they inhabit, expanding the dialogue on community, identity, and the marginalized subcultures of America. She was a recipient of The Guggenheim Fellowship in 2019, and The Smithsonian’s Archives of American Art Medal in 2016. Opie holds the Lynda and Stewart Resnick Endowed Chair in Art at UCLA where she is a professor of photography.
She and Zuckerman discuss mapping humanity, writing in your head, the pain of losing a family, the healing that comes with motherhood, vastness, our intelligence as a species, the crisis of humanity, what makes a successful board experience, what it takes to be a good citizen, meditation within art practice, and how art is a the language of our culture!

May 30, 202355:13
115. Robert King “Bob” Wittman

115. Robert King “Bob” Wittman

Robert King “Bob” Wittman is a highly decorated former Federal Bureau of Investigation special agent who was assigned to the Philadelphia Field Division from 1988 to 2008. Having trained in art, antiques, jewelry and gem identification, Wittman served as the FBI's "top investigator and coordinator in cases involving art theft and art fraud". During his 20 years with the FBI, Wittman helped recover more than $300 million worth of stolen art and cultural property, resulting in the prosecution and conviction of numerous individuals. In 2005, he was instrumental in the creation of the FBI's rapid deployment Art Crime Team (ACT). He also was instrumental in the recovery of colonial North Carolina's copy of the original Bill of Rights in 2005, that had been stolen by a Union soldier in 1865. Wittman represented the United States around the world, conducting investigations and instructing international police and museums in recovery and security techniques. After 20 years with the FBI working against art theft, he worked as an art security consultant for the private sector. In 2010, Wittman published his memoir Priceless which recounts his career and activities while working for the FBI as an undercover agent.

He and Zuckerman spoke about what he thought would be fun about joining the FBI, fake Basquiats, being scared, provenance and good title, the Dr. No theory, 89% of museum theft being an inside job, protecting cultural property, doing deals in the art market, and why museums and monuments get destroyed!

May 16, 202350:49
Episode 114: José Kuri and Mónica Manzutto

Episode 114: José Kuri and Mónica Manzutto

Mónica Manzutto and José Kuri founded the gallery that united their surnames in Mexico City in 1999, and soon became an international reference for Latin America and to the world: kurimanzutto. The gallery helped plant the seeds of Mexico City’s thriving art scene. Recently the husband-and-wife couple expanded their North American presence to a 622 sqm New York gallery that their artists helped design.
We spoke about how they met, the Fridays workshop, Gabriel Orozco’s role in their founding the gallery, the original “rules” they set for the gallery, blurring the line between local and international, building artists’ careers, opening in a different era, staying close to artists, and the perspective that kids bring!

May 02, 202347:42
113. Neville Wakefield

113. Neville Wakefield

Neville Wakefield is a curator and writer interested in exploring the ways in which art behaves outside of institutional contexts. He offers that art is most successful, enlightening, and provocative when it goes beyond stereotypical labels and white spaces and is revealed in new spaces that suggest new paradigms. Previously MoMA PS1’s Senior Curatorial Advisor and Frieze Projects’ Curator, Wakefield is the co-founder of Elevation1049, a site-specific biennial in Gstaad, Switzerland, Artistic Director of Desert X, and the force behind Desert X AlUla in Saudi Arabia.
He and Zuckerman spoke about starting as a writer, sailing, getting lost, no right or singular approach, embracing uncertainty, constructing your own narrative, the aesthetics of disappointment, lowering barriers of entry, and finding beauty in unexpected places!

Apr 18, 202342:12
112. Hilary Pecis

112. Hilary Pecis

Hilary Pecis makes paintings and drawings in which tableaus rich with interlocking fields of saturated color, geometric patterning, and bold linework provide views of sun-drenched domestic still lifes and landscape environments. Books crowding a coffee table, the remains of a dinner party, and terrains lush with Southern California succulents make frequent appearances in her work; these meticulously arranged interiors and vibrantly rendered exteriors amount to an overarching portrait of the self that identifies objects and locations as signifiers for human characteristics.
She and Zuckerman spoke about the importance of questions, her use of photographs, how we know and show ourselves, running, active versus passive practice, in between spaces, choice, what she thinks about, and how things come together!

Apr 04, 202346:46
111. Mark Manders

111. Mark Manders

This episode is a rare, live conversation between Zuckerman and artist Mark Manders recorded as part of an exhibition opening walk through in Los Angeles!

For more than three decades, Mark Manders has developed an endless self-portrait in the form of sculpture, still life, and architectural plans. Described by the artist as his ongoing “self-portrait as a building,” Manders’ works present mysterious and evocative tableaux that allow viewers to construct their own narrative conclusions and meanings. Initially inspired by an interest in writing and literature, Manders’ first conception of the self-portrait was more literal.

He and Zuckerman spoke about magic, choosing a single word to describe your life, simultaneity, ways of understanding self and space, truth, freezing time, thinking machines, waiting, and how we understand God!

Mar 21, 202339:16
110. Derrick Adams

110. Derrick Adams

Derrick Adams is a multi-disciplinary artist living and working in Brooklyn, NY. Adams probes how the experiences and narratives of Black communities are reflected in and refracted by American history, entertainment, consumerism, iconography, and the dynamic relationship between personal identity and cultural environment. Expanding the dialogue around contemporary Black life and culture, through scenes of normalcy and perseverance, he developed and presents an iconography of joy, leisure, and the pursuit of happiness.

He and Zuckerman spoke about confidence, formed language, times of invisibility, fun, artist friendships, celebrating yourself without explaining, and taking chances! is a multi-disciplinary artist living and working in Brooklyn, NY. Adams probes how the experiences and narratives of Black communities are reflected in and refracted by American history, entertainment, consumerism, iconography, and the dynamic relationship between personal identity and cultural environment. Expanding the dialogue around contemporary Black life and culture, through scenes of normalcy and perseverance, he developed and presents an iconography of joy, leisure, and the pursuit of happiness.

He and Zuckerman spoke about confidence, formed language, times of invisibility, fun, artist friendships, celebrating yourself without explaining, and taking chances!

Mar 07, 202345:45
109. Kelly Crow

109. Kelly Crow

Kelly Crow is a staff reporter for the Wall Street Journal, covering the ever-changing contemporary art market since 2006. Her work includes reports on sales at auction houses such as Sotheby's and Christie's and analyses of the funding and buying practices of the world's leading arts institutions, artists, and collectors. Extending her expertise beyond the newsroom, Crow has assisted in teaching journalism courses at Columbia University’s Graduate School, where she earned her master’s degree in 2000. Crow has been the recipient of a Front Page Award from the Newswomen's Club of New York in 2009 for her profile on an FBI officer who reclaims stolen art and a Deadline Club Award for Arts Reporting in 2021 from the New York chapter of the Society of Professional Journalists for her coverage of the digital-art boom. Now residing in Texas, Crow's decades-long insight and expertise into the art world have solidified her place among our time's most influential arts journalists.

She and I spoke about story telling,  the power of suggestion, the burden of telling a story, how to listen, story hunting, how she chooses what to focus on, people who have stuck with her, market maneuvering, the art world and the art market, the black market and the FBI, and how art is the story!

Feb 21, 202301:00:11
108. Jeffrey Deitch

108. Jeffrey Deitch

Jeffrey Deitch has been a prominent player in contemporary art for over fifty years. Born in 1952 and raised in Hartford, Connecticut, Deitch went on to study at Wesleyan University, turning his primary attention from economics to art history. As a college student, he opened his first gallery in 1972 in Lenox, Massachusetts. In 1978 Deitch received his MBA from Harvard Business School, where he authored his thesis on Andy Warhol as a business artist and sought to find synergy between aesthetics and economics. Such interest led him to Citibank, where he developed the art consultation division, the first professionally organized art advisory service attached to an international financial institution. Deitch has also contributed significantly to art criticism, becoming a regular columnist of Flash Art in 1980 and having his work published in Artforum, Garage, Interview magazine, and Paper magazine. In 1996, Deitch opened the Deitch Projects gallery in Soho, with shows including works from Vanessa Beecroft, Nari Ward, and Mariko Mori.

Deitch has made a resounding impact on the art scene of Southern California. In 2010 he received the honor of being named the director of MOCA, relocating from New York to Los Angeles. As an early advocate of graffiti art in the 1980s, his first curated show, "Art in the Street," sold over 200,000 tickets- more than any previous show in MOCA history. In 2018 he opened a 15,000-square-foot space in Hollywood designed by Frank Gehry, where he presents museum-level exhibitions in a gallery setting. Further, in 2020, Deitch created the Gallery Association Los Angeles (GALA for short) to generate excitement about the LA gallery scene. He has also launched
galleryplatform.la, an online program that serves the dynamic Los Angeles arts community with editorial content and rotating online viewing rooms. Deitch continues to operate galleries in New York and Los Angeles while advising private art collectors and institutions. As his number of shows, exhibition spaces, and artists exhibited surpass any art dealer in history, he has crafted a unique role that merges his curatorial profile with the business side of art.

He and Zuckerman spoke about a daily practice of looking at art, the physicality of looking, feeling objects,  time with artists, seeking communities, running an art museum and why “All Surface. No Structure.” matters!

Feb 07, 202354:42
107. Angel Otero

107. Angel Otero

Angel Otero is an artist known for employing highly innovative techniques that challenge the parameters of his materials, revealing the intrinsic qualities of paint. His works are rooted in abstract image making and engage with ideas of memory through addressing art history, as well as his own lived experience. Otero is best known for the Oil Skin works he began in 2010, an ongoing series that demonstrates the inherently transformative nature of the artist’s practice as well as his dedication to expanding the visual field of abstract expressionism. The artist’s early childhood memories are brought to the forefront in his most recent series of paintings which see a return to figuration combined with his hallmark style of abstraction. Otero paints and collages dreamlike scenes upon his vibrant structured canvases, depicting objects and spaces that are loosely based on personal memories associated with the domestic sphere. Probing the boundaries of figuration and abstraction, Otero’s most recent works continue to expand the possibilities of painting and materiality.

He and Zuckerman spoke about the ocean and inspiration, asking questions, personal and intimate subject matter, magical realism, giving space to space, humor as a tool, the energy surrounding his work, trust, the authentic conversation!

Jan 24, 202351:36
106. Heidi Zuckerman Ask Me Anything

106. Heidi Zuckerman Ask Me Anything

With Episode 106 we have changed a few things up! First, our name, we have dropped the word conversations from the podcast title.  The podcast is “About Art” so that’s what we’re now calling it! Simple and elegant.

Second, we added a new photo! The previous one was when OCMA/Orange County Museum of Art was under construction, the new one is from the opening press conference.

And, third, this is our first “Ask Me Anything” episode. Thank you so much to everyone who sent in your questions, we were overwhelmed by the number! We have enough to do many more episodes of this type if you’re interested! Please let us know in the comments below or via DM on Instagram.

Some of the audience questions Heidi answers in this AMA episode include sacrifices she has made, critique she has received, the art where she sleeps, art that makes me laugh, and that causes a lump in her throat, her creative practice, what keeps her going, and if she ever forgets why art matters?

Jan 10, 202342:39
105. Dara Birnbaum

105. Dara Birnbaum

Dara Birnbaum is a groundbreaking figure in the emergence of media art. Among the earliest practitioners working in video, among the first women to adapt the medium, and the first to focus on TV specifically.

Over the course of her nearly 50-year career, she has created a prescient body of work that in many ways prefigures our current digital realities, where anyone on social media can now “talk back” to media in ways similar to what Birnbaum has done throughout her artistic practice.  Her early works from the late 1970s took on American popular culture—Technology/Transformation: Wonder Woman being among her most famous—finding homes in exhibitions at nontraditional venues such as hair salons and nightclubs in the East Village.

She and Zuckerman discuss joy, awakening to nature, Monet, how art saves lives, being a “video maker,” winning, and spiritual practice.

Dec 27, 202256:10
104. Hoor Al Qasimi

104. Hoor Al Qasimi

This week on my podcast “Conversations About Art” I spoke with Hoor Al Qasimi, President and Director of Sharjah Art Foundation, a curator who established the Foundation in 2009 as a catalyst and advocate for the arts, not only in Sharjah, UAE, but also in the region and across the world. With a passion for supporting experimentation and innovation in the arts, Al Qasimi has continuously expanded the scope of the Foundation to include major international touring exhibitions; artist and curator residencies in visual art, film and music; commissions and production grants for emerging artists; publications and publication grants; performance and film festivals; architectural research and restoration; and a wide range of educational programming in Sharjah for both children and adults.

In 2003, Al Qasimi co-curated Sharjah Biennial 6 and has remained Biennial Director ever since. She is currently curating the upcoming Sharjah Biennial 15: Thinking Historically in the Present (2023). Under her leadership, Sharjah Biennial has become an internationally recognised platform for contemporary artists, curators and cultural producers. Her leadership in the field led to her election as President of the International Biennial Association (IBA) in 2017, an appointment that transferred IBA’s headquarters to Sharjah. In addition to her role at the Foundation, Al Qasimi also serves as the President of The Africa Institute and President and Director of the Sharjah Architectural Triennial, which inaugurated its first edition in November 2019.

She and I spoke about chance moments, the history of the place, the Africa Institute, “thinking historically in the present”, not rushing, decentralizing, doing less, telling you own history, not pursuing things that don’t work, and counting experiences!

Dec 13, 202255:37
103. Dan Wood and Amale Andraos, WORKac

103. Dan Wood and Amale Andraos, WORKac

Dan Wood and Amale Andraos, co-founders of WORKac and principals of the firm. Wood has extensive experience leading large scale and complex US and international projects. Andraos is also the dean emeritus and professor at Columbia University’s Graduate School of Architecture Planning and Preservation. WORKac creates architecture and strategic planning concepts at the intersection of the urban, the rural and the natural. Embracing reinvention and collaboration with other fields, they strive to develop intelligent and shared infrastructures and to achieve a more careful integration between architecture, landscape and ecological systems. They hold unshakable lightness and polemical optimism as a means to move beyond the projected and towards the possible. WORKac was the #1 design firm in Architect magazine’s 2017 Architect 50 and the 2015 AIA NYS Firm of the Year. The firm has achieved international acclaim for projects such as the Edible Schoolyard at P.S. 216 in Brooklyn, the Kew Gardens Hills Library in Queens, and the Stealth Building in New York. Current projects include a masterplan for 60 villas on a waterfront site in Lebanon, a new library in Dumbo, Brooklyn, and a library in Boulder, CO.

Wood, Andraos and Zuckerman discuss creativity and criticism, how nature is never just nature, off modern, favorite buildings, and taste!

Nov 29, 202253:07
102. Ella Fontanals-Cisneros

102. Ella Fontanals-Cisneros

Ella Fontanals-Cisneros is a philanthropist, entrepreneur and collector of contemporary art. She began collecting art in the 1970s and her collection, which today has more than 2500 works, has an international profile with emblematic figures of modern and contemporary art with a focus on Latin American art. She is also cofounder of CIFO, a non-profit organization that fosters cultural exchange and enrichment of the arts. In this position, she recently worked to launch the CIFO-Ars Electronica Awards (in partnership with Ars Electronica) to advance the work of Latin American artists working with new media and technology, an underfunded area of production.

She and Zuckerman discuss spirituality, humanity, crying in front of works of art, the importance of silence, her legacy, museum decision making, how personal decision making is!!

Nov 15, 202250:26
101. Salah M. Hassan

101. Salah M. Hassan

Dr. Salah M. Hassan is founding Director of The Africa Institute. Hassan concurrently holds positions at Cornell University as the Distinguished Professor of Arts & Sciences in African and African Diaspora Art History and Visual Culture in the Department of Africana Studies and Research Center; in the Department of History of Art and Visual Studies; and as Director of the Institute for Comparative Modernities (ICM). Hassan also served as Professor of History of Art in African and African American Studies and Fine Art at Brandeis University, where he was previously awarded the Madeleine Haas Russell Professorship in the Departments of African and Afro-American Studies and Fine Art.


Hassan is an editor and co-founder of Nka: Journal of Contemporary African Art and author, editor, and contributor to numerous other books, journals, anthologies, and exhibition catalogues. Hassan has also curated international exhibitions and Biennials including Authentic/Ex- Centric (49th Venice Biennale, 2001); and 3x3: Three Artists/Three: David Hammons, Maria Magdalena Campos-Pons, Pamela Z (Dak'Art, 2004); among others.

He and Zuckerman discussed African Modernism, family preferences, not seeing yourself, resistance, walking, revenge, and loving beauty and humor in art!

Nov 01, 202201:02:50
100. Cristina Iglesias

100. Cristina Iglesias

Cristina Iglesias is a Spanish born artist who studied Chemical Sciences at the University of the Basque Country and Ceramics and Sculpture at the Chelsea College of Art in London. Her museum exhibitions include Centro Botín, Santander, Spain; Museo Reina Sofía, Madrid; Ludwig Museum, Cologne; Whitechapel Art Gallery, London; and Solomon R. Guggenheim Museum, New York. She additionally has been commissioned to create major projects and installations at Bloomberg headquarters, London; Mexican Foundation of Environmental Education, Baja, California; Museo del Prado, Madrid; and Royal Museum of Fine Art, Antwerp, among many others.

She and Zuckerman discuss studio spaces, collaboration, being with ourselves, dreaming, constructing landscape, memory and imagination, transiting, and remembering!

Oct 18, 202240:18
99. Kate MccGwire

99. Kate MccGwire

This week on my podcast “Conversations About Art” I spoke with Kate MccGwire, a British sculptor who spent her childhood growing up on the Norfolk Broads. Taking feathers as her primary medium, MccGwire goes through labour-intensive processes of collecting, sorting and cleaning her materials to create muscular, writhing forms reminiscent of Classical sculpture and creatures from mythology. Through her practice, MccGwire celebrates feathers, which are commonly shed or discarded, as the medium through which she articulates enigmatic anatomies that explore physical and introspective space.

She and I discuss swimming in the river, unexpected and long term collaborations, the notion of place, tracing the practice of time, being lost, looking again at what you think you know, meditative processes, what she listens to in the studio, flow, flux, patterning and energy, the power of art, and having a weird life!

Royal Salute, the master of exceptionally aged Scotch whisky, has unveiled a new platform, The Art of Wonder in partnership with celebrated British sculptor, Kate MccGwire. The Art of Wonder will invite some of the most provocative artists of today to take inspiration from the craft of whisky blending to create a lasting tribute to the transformative power of creativity. For its inaugural release, Royal Salute has partnered with British sculptor, Kate MccGwire, who has created three beautifully sculpted and sensuous pieces; Paragon, Plethora, and Protean, under a body of work named Forces of Nature. Paragon is one of 21 bespoke sculptures, that sits with a remarkable 53 Year Old blended Scotch whisky, one of the highest ages ever released by Royal Salute. Plethora, which features sustainably sourced pheasant feathers flowing through the curves of copper repurposed from silent whisky stills, will be unveiled for the first time in Shanghai, China, in November 2022. Protean, the largest installation of the three, continues the theme of Plethora and will be revealed at Frieze, London on the 12th of October 2022.

For more information, visit royalsalute.com or follow @royalsalute on social media.

@kate_mccgwire

Oct 13, 202251:22
98. Sandra Jackson-Dumont

98. Sandra Jackson-Dumont

Sandra Jackson-Dumont is the Director and CEO of the Lucas Museum of Narrative Art. Tasked with leading the institution through its opening and beyond, she comes to the museum from the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York City, where she has served as the Frederick P. and Sandra P. Rose Chairman of Education and Public Programs since 2014. Throughout her career, Jackson-Dumont has developed programming around museum collections and special exhibitions to engage a broad range of audiences. She also served for eight years as the deputy director for education and public programs and adjunct curator in modern and contemporary art at the Seattle Art Museum. Prior to that, Jackson-Dumont held positions at the Studio Museum and the Whitney Museum of American Art in New York City.

She and Zuckerman discuss misbehaving, seeing God, being in and of the world, museums as social spaces, going where you want to be, ambiguity, what’s missing from the syllabus of work, an integrated life, and for us by us!

Oct 04, 202257:06
97. Moshe Safdie

97. Moshe Safdie

Moshe Safdie is an architect, urban planner, educator, theorist, and author. In 1964 he established his own firm to realize Habitat ’67, an adaptation of his undergraduate thesis and a turning point in modern architecture. Embracing a comprehensive and humane design philosophy, Safdie is committed to architecture that is informed by the geographic, social, and cultural elements that define a place; and that responds to human needs and aspirations. Over a celebrated 50-year career, Safdie has explored the essential principles of socially responsible design with a distinct visual language. His wide range of completed projects include cultural, educational, and civic institutions; neighborhoods and public parks; housing; mixed-use urban centers and airports; and master plans for existing communities and entirely new cities. Safdie’s projects can be found in North and South America, and throughout Asia. Recent projects of note include the Jewel Changi Airport in Singapore, the Albert Einstein Education and Research Center in Brazil, as well as residences in Colombo, Quito, and China that build on and expand his original vision for Habitat ’67, presenting a new vision for urban living rooted in the rediscover of the interdependence between nature and society. Safdie’s new memoir, “If Walls Could Speak,” will be released this fall.

He and Zuckerman discuss starting a firm, abstract memorials, how sites generate design, the role of light in art museums, iconic buildings, the drama of the end, and having conviction!

Sep 20, 202249:25
96. KAWS

96. KAWS

KAWS engages audiences beyond the museums and galleries in which he regularly exhibits. His prolific body of work straddles the worlds of art and design to include paintings, murals, graphic and product design, street art, and large-scale sculptures. Over the last two decades KAWS’ work shows formal agility, underlying wit, irreverence, and affection for our times. His refined graphic language revitalizes figuration with both big, bold gestures and playful intricacies. KAWS often appropriates and draws inspiration from pop culture animations, forming a unique artistic vocabulary across mediums. Admired for his larger-than-life sculptures and hardedge paintings that emphasize line and color, KAWS’ cast of hybrid cartoon characters are the strongest examples of his exploration of humanity. As seen in his collaborations with global brands, KAWS’ imagery possesses a sophisticated humor and reveals a thoughtful interplay with consumer products.

He and I discuss how works of art can exist in the public realm, his start, who his characters are and what they mean to him, what it feels like to see your work in the local grocery store, how he spends his time in the studio and who visits him there, and what he cares about and why!

Sep 06, 202245:28
95. Jérôme Sans

95. Jérôme Sans

Jérôme Sans began his career in the early 1980s as one of the first independent curators in Europe. His mission has been to rethink contemporary art exhibition making through an engagement with emerging artists. He is the former director of the Ullens Center for Contemporary Art in Beijing, co-founder of the Palais de Tokyo in Paris, and creator, and former creative director and editor-in-chief of the French cultural magazine L’Officiel Art, former artistic director of Rives de Saône-River Movie, former co-artistic director to the Grand Paris Express project, France's largest urban redefinition through culture initiative since Haussmann, among many other accomplishments and appointments. He recently joined LAGO/ALGO, a cultural hub that blends Contemporary Art and modernist architecture in Mexico City, as artistic director.

He and Zuckerman discuss why art matters, institution building and how to make people feel welcome, what we’ve forgotten how to do in the last few years, and what he tells doubters!

Aug 23, 202243:37
94. Marianne Boesky

94. Marianne Boesky

Marianne Boesky established her eponymous gallery in New York in 1996. Since its inception, the gallery has represented and supported the work of emerging and established contemporary artists of all media and genres. In its first decade, the gallery was instrumental in launching the careers of major artists including Barnaby Furnas, Takashi Murakami, Yoshitomo Nara, Sarah Sze, and Lisa Yuskavage. The gallery currently represents many significant international artists, including Ghada Amer, Jennifer Bartlett, Sanford Biggers, Pier Paolo Calzolari, Donald Moffett, and Frank Stella. Boesky relocated her flagship gallery from SoHo to Chelsea in 2001, and in 2016, the gallery expanded its flagship location to include its adjacent space on West 24th Street. In 2017, Boesky opened a location in Aspen, Colorado; she has organized temporary exhibition spaces in Europe and in cities across the United States.

She and Zuckerman discuss family legacy, audacity, learning from artists, bank loans, consiglieres, vision,  looking at everything, being a mom in the artworld, mentoring, and not rushing!

Aug 09, 202250:23
93. Hebru Brantley

93. Hebru Brantley

Hebru Brantley was born and raised in Chicago. A product of the 80's, Brantley's early inspiration to create visual art derived from the cinematic Blaxploitation and science fiction depicted in the previous decade. His affinity for mythological comic book heroes, Japanimation, and graffiti has strongly influenced his work, and eventually, he began fusing elements of urban society with pop culture. From that, he developed his own unique approach to visual art, layering youthful expression with human emotion, history, and the complexities and challenges of urban life. Brantley creates his work spontaneously and uses an array of mediums such as wood, found objects, spray paint, coffee and tea. He has designed and illustrated for media production and clothing companies and transitioned from graffiti to canvas.

He and Zuckerman discuss heroes, why it’s harder to access art than music or film, hope, Chance The Rapper, incantation, Adidas and acceptance!

Jul 26, 202245:00
92. Fred Eversley

92. Fred Eversley

Fred Eversley’s lenses and mirrored forms reflect and refract the world, and our place within it. Eversley hit his stride with his primary mode of working at the same time the Light and Space movement gained momentum in Southern California. Yet unlike his Light and Space and Finish Fetish peers who often collaborated with scientists and outsourced fabrication of their work, Eversley’s firsthand technical understanding as a scientist himself (Eversley came to Southern California in the 1960s to work as a consulting engineer for NASA and his early career was spent with United States’ largest aerospace company during that period–Wyle Labs in Los Angeles) enabled him to utilize materials in ways that uniquely position his practice.
Eversley is the subject of a major show at The Orange County Museum of Art / OCMA when the museum
opens on October 8.

He and Zuckerman discuss science, how his work is about energy, failure, infinite possibility, climate change, working in New York, the importance of his groundbreaking 1978 exhibition at OCMA (then known as the Newport Harbor Art Museum), black holes, and proximity to other artists and thinkers!

Jul 12, 202234:11
91. Teresita Fernandez

91. Teresita Fernandez

Teresita Fernández’s work is characterized by an interest in self-reflection and conceptual wayfinding. Her immersive, monumental works are inspired by a rethinking of landscape and place, as well as by diverse historical and cultural references. Often drawing inspiration from the natural world, Fernández’s practice unravels the intimacies between matter, places, and human beings. Her work questions power, visibility, and erasure in ways that prompt reflective engagement for individual viewers.

Fernández is a 2005 MacArthur Foundation Fellow, the recipient of numerous awards, and was appointed by President Obama as the first Latina to serve on the U.S. Commission of Fine Arts, a 100-year-old federal panel that advises the president and Congress on national matters of design and aesthetics.

She and I discuss not being a specialist, emptiness, sustainability, what lives inside of us, landscapes, vulnerability, indigenous thought, silence, not needing to hide the story, trusting your instincts, mothering, and seeing yourself in something that is not you.

Jun 28, 202245:36
90. Sanford Biggers

90. Sanford Biggers

Sanford Biggers creates hybridized forms that transpose, combine and juxtapose classical and historical subjects to create alternative meanings and produce what he calls “future ethnographies.”   His work is an interplay of narrative, perspective, and history that speaks to current social, political, and economic happenings while also examining the contexts that bore them. His diverse practice positions him as a collaborator with the past through explorations of often-overlooked cultural and political narratives from American history.

Zuckerman curated his first one-person museum exhibition 20 years ago this year and will open the new Orange County Museum of Art with a new site specific commission. He and she discuss where ideas come from, making space, trees, transcendent moments, Buddhists and break dancers, the symphony of silence, new iconographies, where we are from, and power objects!

Jun 14, 202250:01
89. Leo Villareal

89. Leo Villareal

Leo Villareal works with pixels and binary code to create complex, rhythmic compositions in light. His goal is to create a rich environment in which emergent behavior can occur without a preconceived outcome. His work is focused on stripping systems down to their essence to better understand the underlying structures and rules that govern how they work. He is interested in lowest common denominators such as pixels or the zeros and ones in binary code. The resulting forms move, change, interact and ultimately grow into complex organisms that are inspired by mathematician John Conway's work with cellular automata and the Game of Life. On March 5, 2013 Villareal inaugurated The Bay Lights, a 1.8-mile-long installation of 25,000 white LED lights on San Francisco’s Bay Bridge which has since become a permanent installation.

In April 2021, Villareal completed Illuminated River, which unites 9 bridges in central London into a single, monumental work of public art.

He and Zuckerman discuss different types of public art, connecting the flow state and creativity, circularity, being a beacon, personal and family history, NFTs, and yoga!

May 31, 202241:07
88. Fred Tomaselli

88. Fred Tomaselli

Fred Tomaselli’s work reveals a uniquely American vision. Growing up in Southern California, he was influenced by both the manufactured unreality of theme parks and the music and drug countercultures of Los Angeles during the 1970s and 80s. His distinctive melding of these traditions coalesces in an updated, personalized, folk-driven vision of the American West. Tomaselli amasses pills, herbs and other drugs, along with images of plants, flowers, birds, and anatomical illustrations carefully cut from books. Pulling from this visual archive, Tomaselli creates baroque paintings that draw upon a range of art historical sources and decorative traditions—like quilts and mosaics. Combining these unusual materials and paint under layers of clear epoxy resin, Tomaselli’s paintings explode in mesmerizing patterns that appear to grow organically across his compositions in a multilayered coexistence of the real, the photographic, and the painterly.

Friends for nearly three decades, in 2009 Zuckerman organized a major exhibition of Tomaselli’s work that traveled to two venues including the Brooklyn Museum. In this episode he and she talk about being shaped by cars, surfing, Disneyland and Orange County in general, their shared love of nature, losing yourself in music, mind altering substances and experiences, The New York Times and current events!

May 17, 202240:20