Skip to main content
A Cup of Teal with Helen Sanderson

A Cup of Teal with Helen Sanderson

By Helen Sanderson
Teal is short-hand for the future of work. It means bringing your whole self to work, a focus on purpose and self-management.

This podcast is a chat, over a cup of tea with the people who are making this change in health, care and the public sector, sharing stories of self-management in action.
Where to listen
Apple Podcasts Logo

Apple Podcasts

Google Podcasts Logo

Google Podcasts

Overcast Logo

Overcast

Pocket Casts Logo

Pocket Casts

RadioPublic Logo

RadioPublic

Spotify Logo

Spotify

25. Andy Brogan on the why, what and how of Confirmation Practices
Confirmation Practices have made a significant difference to how I work, and replaced supervision in Wellbeing Teams. In this podcast, Andy Brogan explains the problem that Confirmation Practices are designed to solve, what they are, and how to use them. This podcast was recorded in 2020 and reflects our early learning within Wellbeing Teams.
31:23
April 19, 2022
24. Sarah McGuire: Can an organisation become kinder?
Sarah McGuire is the CEO of Choice Support. In this podcast we talk about why they are not using the term 'self-management' and their focus on purpose. Sarah talks about how they have been using sprints to make change, and their move towards more courageous leadership.
23:21
March 25, 2022
23. Edel Harris - Chief Executive of Mencap
This is my third podcast with Edel, this time in her role of Chief Executive of Mencap. Edel introduces The Big Plan, talks about self-empowered teams and how these fit within the broad strategy. She references the 'Three F's" and what these mean in Mencap. It is exciting to hear how she has taken learning from her experience at Cornerstone in Scotland to Mencap, and to hear how changes are starting to take place at pace.
32:23
March 01, 2022
22. Rosie Lawn: The difference self-management makes to Executives at Avivo
In my second podcast with Rosie Lawn we talk about the difference self-management makes to the role of the CEO and Executives. She explains how this has led to a change in thinking, and the impact this has had on their approach to risk. 
32:35
October 04, 2021
21. Avril Delaney: self-management and nursing
Sir John Timpson is not a name often associated with self-management. He was mentor to Avril Delaney who worked as Director of Nursing at Cheshire and Wirral Partnership Trust for over 17 years. She wanted to explore self-management (or self-driving as she calls it) as a way to improve outcomes for people, reducing red tape and encourage innovation. This builds on their earlier investment in person-centred practices. In partnership with the CCG and Local Authority, Avril saw an opportunity to bring together person centred practices, inspiration from Buurtzorg and Sir John Timpson and his Upside Down management model. In this podcast she talks about the difference it could make in the NHS as she talks about the  first Neighbourhood Team in rural village of Malpas.
26:29
October 04, 2021
20. Mairi Martin - influencing cultural change at Cornerstone and Mencap
Mairi played an important role in the changes made at Cornerstone in Scotland. She describes the three main ways she supported cultural change. She has a new role, in Mencap, and talks about the early changes there.
14:01
August 04, 2020
19. Supported Living and COVID 19 - how are self-managing teams in the UK and New Zealand responding?
This is my second podcast looking at how self-managed teams responding to the COVID pandemic, this time in Supported Living. I talk to Mandy, a new coach supporting the first self-directed teams in Choice Support. Mandy talks about the response at the local team level.  Then Jan Perkins from Tautoko Options in New Zealand, talks about how the leadership team is responding quickly to information and rules, and working remotely.
30:53
August 04, 2020
18. Angela Clarke: Black Lives Matter and Wellbeing Teams
Angela Clarke is our National Advisor for Diversity. In our first podcast together Angela helps me think about, and challenges me, around ways that Wellbeing Teams can respond to Black Lives Matter, embrace diversity and challenge racism.
32:02
July 27, 2020
17. Phil Orton: HR Director with Making Space on sprints and surprises
What gets in the way of you doing your best work? This is the question we used with Making Space, as they move towards greater autonomy in their HQ and operational teams. We used the cards from The Ready, and started a series of 3 sprints. Phil talks about the process, the outcomes and the surprises as we start the second sprint. 
44:40
July 16, 2020
16. Dan from Chorus, Australia on the CEO's role and self-management
Chorus is based in Perth, Australia, and has formed from merging three organisations. Dan, the CEO explains how they are exploring better ways of working that express their values and philosophy, starting with what inspires them. Dan talks frankly about the difference this is making to his role, and to him personally. He has some valuable reflections that I think are important for CEOs interested in self-management.
38:36
July 09, 2020
15. Wellbeing Teams and the impact of COVID-19
The COVID-19 pandemic has revealed the strengths and spirit of those who work in health and care, and brought into sharp focus the life-threatening cracks in the system. Three years ago, I set up Wellbeing Teams, the first self-managing teams in homecare in the UK. I wanted to create a provider organisation that brought together compassionate care and community connections, delivered by small self-managing teams. Would the self-management in Wellbeing Teams erode under the pressure of the crisis, and hierarchy gain a foothold, or would something else happen? In May, I talked to Wellbeing Team members, a Wellbeing Leader and the national lead supporting all Wellbeing Leaders, to find out.
39:39
June 03, 2020
14. Emily McArdle: Non-Violent Communication in Wellbeing Teams
Jackal or giraffe? Emily, from Wellbeing Teams, explains how we are using NVC (or Compassionate Communication) to help us live our values of Compassion, Responsibility and Curiosity. Compassionate Communication is key to self-management in Wellbeing Teams, and Emily explains how we learn and practice together. 
24:14
May 01, 2020
13. Mary Curran: Wellbeing Teams
Mary participated in our 'Self-Management in Action' programmes and from this we recruited her to be a Wellbeing Leader with Wellbeing Teams in 2018. She supports our teams in Oxfordshire, and was part of the CQC inspection in 2019 when we received our Outstanding rating.  In this podcast she talks about what it is like to be a Registered Manager supporting self-managed teams, and how, in partnership with Bellevie, Wellbeing Teams are expanding to support families and young people with autism.
25:45
April 23, 2020
12. Mary Beth Lepkowsky: HSA USA
Mary Beth is one of international leaders of HSA, delivering consultancy and training in the US. My journey to self-management started when I was leading HSA in the UK, and in this podcast Mary Beth explains the path she is taking supporting her team to move towards greater autonomy and self-management. We talk about the power of values, decision-making and the importance of clear roles. 
32:53
April 16, 2020
11. Peter Brook: Coaching a self-managed team
What is it like to be a coach in a self-managed team?  Peter is the coach and programme lead for a two-team pilot working directly with Buurtzorg in a European-funded project. This is taking place in the NHS Community Trust in Kent, with the purpose of redesigning community care. They want to build a community that supports itself and promotes good health, bringing together medical care, social care, community and housing. Peter talks about the development of team agreements, and covering the detail of what happens if somebody can't get to work, annual leave and rota arrangements. He talks about how, in his role as a coach, he helps resolve issues and supports the team to come to decisions.  If you're curious about what team meetings look like in a Buurtzorg-type team, and what their alternative is to supervision, please listen to this podcast with Peter.
33:12
April 06, 2020
10. Edel Harris: Reflections on the end of year 2 in the transformation of Cornerstone
As you will know by now, Edel is now the CEO of Mencap. This is my third and final podcast with Edel talking about Cornerstone at the end of the second year, with the publication of the 2nd year University evaluation. One of the highlights of the evaluation is that every team member interviewed categorically said they would never go back to the old way of working. Self-management has also resulted in improved recruitment and less turnover. Edel says that the overall message is stick with it and cope with the challenges, it is worth doing. They have extended the period of change from 3 years to 4 years. In 6 months it will be mandatory to work this way.
14:38
March 12, 2020
9. Sophie: The future of social work?
When I spoke to Sophie I thought I was hearing the future of social work. Sophie is a social worker who was part of Neighbourhood Cares St Ives, a social care pilot developed by Cambridgeshire County Council. The pilot finishes in 2019. Inspired by Buurtzorg, she explains the differences in working within a different context, within social care legislation and public funding. The team is made up of social workers and social care practitioners and they deliver relationship centred care. A radical concept - no case is every closed. The team was available to anyone over 18, replacing the long term social care functions, and with a  strong focus on prevention, not just at the point of crisis. Sophie describes in detail how their self-managed team works in practice. She talks about autonomy and social support for team members. Could this be the future of wellbeing for social workers as well as people supported?.  Sophie says; "It allowed me to be the social worker that I wanted to be.".
36:30
March 03, 2020
8. Rosie Lawn: Learning from Avivo
Avivo is the leading organisation in Australia moving towards self-management. Avivo has 1100 team members working in Western Australia, supporting people to live at home, with a turnover of around 65 million dollars. Self-management may be seen by some as the latest thing in health and care, but CEO Rosie Lawn explains how they started with the question, ‘What organisational design could support us to achieve our purpose and strategic goals?’.
31:05
February 24, 2020
7. Annie Francis: Neighbourhood Midwives
Neighbourhood Midwives was the first health care start-up to embrace self-management. Annie describes why and how Neighbourhood Midwives started and how they worked to create a culture of psychological safety. She describes the challenges of new ways of working within the NHS and how the midwives agreed their own rotas and self-managed. Although Neighbourhood Midwives closed in 2019, it is inspirational to hear what is possible in health. 
32:56
January 20, 2020
6. Michelle Livesley: Wellbeing Teams
At the end of their first phase, two years after they started, Michelle talks about what she is proud of and what we need to develop. She introduces the specific practices used in Wellbeing Teams, for example, the tactical meeting process. Michelle was the first Team Coach in Wellbeing Teams and later became the Wellbeing Leader, taking the teams through our first CQC inspection where we were rated 'Outstanding'. 
25:39
January 20, 2020
5. Edel Harris: Cornerstone one year on
Edel talks frankly about the highs and lows at the end of the first year of their move to self-management.  She describes what they learned from the first three teams and how the number of teams has grown. Hear Edel talk about challenges around communication, the role of managers, technology and productivity. 
34:16
January 20, 2020
4. Yumi Stamet: Lessons from Australia
How did self-management get started in health and care in Australia? Yumi, from Purpose at Work, has the inside story. She shares her 3 reason why this is happening and her reflections on the role of the CEO. A must listen to for any CEO's thinking about self-management in their organisation. 
32:46
January 20, 2020
3. Emma Back: Equal Care Co-op
A radical new approach to care, Equal Care Co-op are developing a platform-based moel, rooted in co-production and organised through sociocracy (an approach to self-management). Emma Back, one of the founders, explains their vision, what has happened so far and introduces 'care coins'. Equal Care Co-op could be a major disrupter in health and care.
15:31
January 20, 2020
2. Dave Jackson: Choice Support
Choice Support is the first large social care organisation in England to commit to moving towards self-management. The Director of Operations, Dave Jackson explains how they are getting started with two teams, their vision and early challenges. Hear his radical view of the future of HR, IT and Finance in a self-managed structure. 
23:57
January 20, 2020
1. Edel Harris: Cornerstone
Cornerstone in Scotland is the pioneering large social care charity to move towards self-management. This is my first of three conversations with the then CEO Edel Harris, right at the start of their journey. She explains why they wanted to do this, where their ideas came from, their early successes and challenges.  
28:00
January 20, 2020
Introducing A Cup of Teal
It was two books and an online programme, the AltMBA, that led Wellbeing Teams. Wellbeing Teams are small, self-mananaged teams, inspired by Buurtzorg and operating in two areas of England. This first podcast explains why I started Wellbeing Teams, why the podcast is called 'a cup of teal'  and how I want to learn with and from other pioneers of self-management in health, care and public services. 
07:25
January 20, 2020