I'd Rather Be Reading

One of the buzziest films of the month is Netflix’s new movie Scoop starring Gillian Anderson and Rufus Sewell—it came out April 5 and is about the BBC’s process of securing Prince Andrew to appear on its program Newsnight, which he ultimately did in November 2019. This interview, which largely touched on his association with convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein, ended Andrew’s career as a working royal; his interview with Emily Maitlis aired on a Saturday, and by that next Wednesday, he resigned from his position as a senior royal. Today on the show we have the person responsible for securing that landmark interview, Sam McAlister, who was a producer and booker at the BBC at the time. Now, it’s important to note—and Sam and I do this in our conversation today—how absolutely impossible the prospect of getting a senior working royal to sit down and talk about his association with a convicted sex offender is. After all, the unofficial motto of the British royal family is “Never complain, never explain.” Members of the royal family rarely give interviews, and they never give interviews where they are already set up to fail. But Andrew’s ego led the way, and not only was the interview allowed to happen at Buckingham Palace, but it was allowed to air, as Andrew thought he did a great job. Oh, the joys of self-delusion. In the film, Scoop, Sam is played by actress Billie Piper, who called Sam an “unsung hero.” If you’ve seen Scoop, while Andrew will no doubt draw viewers in, it’s actually Sam who is the star of the movie, and as I say today on the show, a central theme is the story of women at the top of their game banding together to change history. That’s exactly what happened here. I interviewed Sam both for the show and for a piece I wrote about her for Marie Claire, and in doing so I watched the Newsnight interview for the first time since November 2019, and it is ridiculously painful to watch. Sam, in her book, calls the interview on Andrew’s part “a masterclass in how to destroy your life.” By that Wednesday, as I said, Andrew had left royal duty, and in January 2022, his mother, Queen Elizabeth, stripped Andrew of all of his royal patronages and military titles, in a final coup de grace for her reported favorite son. It’s also important to note that, in addition to just being associated with Jeffrey Epstein, Andrew was accused of sexual assault by Virginia Guiffre, who alleged that she was 17 when he had sex with her. In February 2022, Andrew settled out of court with Guiffre, and he has repeatedly, fastidiously, and continuously up to present day denied any of these allegations. Sam’s book, Scoops: Behind the Scenes of the BBC’s Most Shocking Interviews, came out in September 2022 and became the basis of Scoop, which is out now on Netflix. In the book, Sam—who is a single mother and a former lawyer—details booking many hard-to-book guests, Prince Andrew of course, but also Julian Assange, Amy Schumer, Stormy Daniels, and so many others. I am so excited for you to meet the dynamo that is Sam McAlister and learn about what she calls “45 minutes of TV history.”

Last week, on April 18 and 19, the woman formerly known as Grace Kelly and, after marriage, Princess Grace of Monaco, would have marked 68 years of marriage to Prince Rainier III, had either lived to see it. Grace died at just 52 years old from injuries sustained in a car accident in 1982; Rainier died in 2005, 23 years later. Born in Philadelphia, Grace had just won the Academy Award for Best Actress for The Country Girl when she met Rainier in April 1955. It all started as a publicity gimmick while she was in Europe attending the Cannes Film Festival that, somehow, turned into what would become a 26-year marriage, but before their three children Princess Caroline, Prince Albert, and Princess Stephanie, and before her work as Princess of Monaco, and before her tragic death, there was the dress—one of the most elegant, memorable, and famous wedding gowns of all time. On her wedding day, Grace was 26 years old and was retiring from acting to marry a literal prince. Grace was arguably at the height of her Hollywood career when she met Rainier, and by the end of 1955, they were engaged; Rainier was already the monarch of the small principality of Monaco in the French Riviera and had been on the throne since 1949. He was 32 years old when they married, and reportedly being pressured—as all who are on the throne or who will be on the throne are—to produce an heir to ensure the continuation of the monarchy. As per Monegasque tradition, on April 18, 1956, Grace and Rainier were married in a civil ceremony in the throne room of the Royal Palace in front of just 80 guests. The ceremony was performed by Monaco’s Minister of Justice and was the precursor to the next day’s religious ceremony—that one watched by over 30 million viewers. Grace’s $60,000 religious ceremony wedding dress was a gift from MGM to its star and was a worthwhile investment: is has become one of the most iconic wedding dresses of all time. The timeless look has gone on to inspire brides like Kate Middleton, whose 2011 Alexander McQueen gown bore a close resemblance to the gown worn by Grace, another royal bride that walked down the aisle 55 years before her. Grace and Rainier’s religious ceremony on April 19 was held at the St. Nicholas Cathedral, and the high mass was conducted by the bishop of Monaco. A mixture of high society and Hollywood stars gathered for the occasion, including Ava Gardner, Cary Grant, Gloria Swanson, Aristotle Onassis, Conrad Hilton, and Egypt’s former King Farouk. Tatler reports that “During the wedding breakfast, guests were treated to lobster, caviar, and a six-tier wedding cake by the Hotel de Paris’ pastry chefs, from which two live turtle doves were released after Rainier sliced through it with his sword.” The couple left in a Rolls-Royce—a gift from their subjects—and sailed away on a seven-week honeymoon onboard Deo Juvante II, a gift from Onassis; by the time the newlyweds returned to Monaco, Grace was pregnant with her first child, Princess Caroline, who was born nine months and four days after her royal wedding in January 1957.

Today on the show we welcome back author J. Randy Taraborrelli and induct him into the elite I’d Rather Be Reading second timers club. He was on the show way back in February 2022 discussing his book Jackie, Ethel, Joan, about life as a Kennedy wife. In addition to writing extensively about the Kennedys—Jackie in particular—he has also written biographies on Frank Sinatra, Marilyn Monroe, Diana Ross, Michael Jackson, Madonna, Beyonce, the Hiltons, the Bushes, and more. He’s endlessly interesting to talk to, and today we’re digging into his book Once Upon a Time: Behind the Fairytale of Princess Grace and Prince Rainier, which I think is the definitive book on not just Grace, but her marriage, too. It turns out the story of Grace and Rainier is a fairytale, but maybe not in the way you might think.

There are no two ways around this fact: today’s conversation is tough. It’s really, really tough. Today, April 20, 2024, marks 25 years since the Columbine High School massacre in Littleton, Colorado. I woke up this morning and read an article in People magazine about Frank DeAngelis, who was the principal at Columbine at the time of the shooting. In the article, DeAngelis said that every single morning, he wakes up and says the names of those killed in that day’s horrible events. He said he almost died twice that day, and, in his words, “For whatever reason God spared me that day. So I need to try to help others.” I will take a page from Principal DeAngelis and begin this episode by saying the names of the 12 students and one teacher killed that day: Cassie Bernall, Steven Curnow, Corey DePooter, Kelly Fleming, Matt Kechter, Daniel Mauser, Danny Rohrbough, Dave Sanders, Rachel Scott, Isaiah Shoels, John Tomlin, Lauren Townsend, and Kyle Velasquez. Thirteen people who woke up on this morning 25 years ago and headed into school for what they probably imagined would be a typical Tuesday—and they never came home.

Today on the show I have Dave Cullen, who wrote the definitive book on the Columbine massacre, simply titled Columbine, in 2009, 10 years after the attack happened. It took Dave a full decade to write this masterpiece, and he followed it up with a book about the Parkland school shooting, simply titled Parkland, in 2019. Dave’s Columbine book has a new edition and we talk about that in today’s episode. You can feel Dave’s passion for a topic he spent a full decade writing about oozing throughout this conversation.

I was 12 years old and in the sixth grade on April 20, 1999, when perpetrators Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold shot and killed 12 fellow classmates and a teacher at the school. The massacre was also an attempted bombing that failed, and 10 of the 12 students killed were in the school library, the epicenter of the attack, where Harris and Klebold also killed themselves at the massacre’s end. When it happened, Columbine was the deadliest mass school shooting at a K-12 school in U.S. history; Harris and Klebold had been planning their attack for at least a year and planned for it to be primarily a bombing attack, and secondarily a shooting attack. When the bombs they’d built failed to detonate, they began shooting. Their motive remains inconclusive, but Dave and I get into the “why” of it all in our conversation today. Its aftermath has unfortunately spawned dozens of copycat killings, called “the Columbine effect,” and the word “Columbine” itself has become a word symbolizing school shootings. The attack took place from 11:19 a.m. to 12:08 p.m., culminating in the suicides of Harris and Klebold. In 2007, the Columbine Memorial opened to the public, and two years later, in 2009, Dave’s book came out. Dave is considered the nation’s foremost authority on Columbine, and his book covers two major storylines: the killers’ evolution leading up to the attack, and the survivors’ struggles with its aftermath after it happened. Chapters alternate between those two stories, and the book spent eight weeks on The New York Times bestseller list and won numerous awards, drawing comparisons to Truman Capote’s classic In Cold Blood and Ann Rule’s The Stranger Beside Me. This conversation is a difficult one, but necessary.

On April 19, 1995—29 years ago tomorrow—at 9:02 a.m., a fertilizer truck bomb exploded outside of the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, an act of domestic terrorism perpetrated by Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols. Fueled by anti-government sentiment—and specifically angered by the Federal Assault Weapons Ban, Ruby Ridge in 1992, and the Waco siege exactly two years to the day earlier in 1993—the blast killed 168 and injured 680. Prior to September 11, 2001, the bombing was the deadliest act of terrorism in U.S. history and remains to this day the deadliest act of domestic terrorism our country has ever seen. The bomb destroyed more than one-third of the building—which ultimately had to be demolished—and damaged 324 other buildings, causing an estimated $652 million in damages. Forensic evidence quickly linked McVeigh and Nichols to the bombing, and within days, both were charged. On that April 19, McVeigh detonated a Ryder truck in front of the building; Nichols had assisted with the bomb’s preparation. McVeigh and Nichols had met in 1988 during basic training for the Army and were both tried and convicted in 1997; McVeigh was executed by lethal injection on June 11, 2001, and Nichols is currently serving life in prison. The victims of the bombing ranged in age from three months old to 73 years old and included three pregnant women; 19 of the victims were babies and children, many of whom were in the building’s day care center. Today on the show we honor the victims of this senseless attack by talking to Jeffrey Toobin, author of the definitive book on the bombing, 2023’s Homegrown: Timothy McVeigh and the Rise of Right-Wing Extremism, and the host of the excellent and brand-new podcast Homegrown: OKC. In both works, Toobin draws parallels between the Oklahoma City bombing and January 6, 2021, writing that this study of the Oklahoma City bombing is “Not just a glimpse of the past, but a warning about the future.” It’s a conversation you won’t want to miss.

On April 15, 1912, the RMS Titanic—a British ocean liner operated by the White Star Line—sank in the North Atlantic Ocean after striking an iceberg during her maiden voyage from Southampton, England, to New York City. The loss of life was devastating—of the 2,224 passengers and crew aboard, about 1,500 died, making the Titanic the deadliest sinking of a single ship up to that time, 112 years ago. Titanic had aboard her some of the wealthiest people in the world, as well as hundreds of immigrants seeking a new life in the United States and Canada. The Titanic was deemed “unsinkable,” which perhaps accounted for its disturbing lack of lifeboats. The ship was capable of having 48 lifeboats aboard; it only had 20 in actuality. Of those 20 lifeboats, 1,178 lives could have been saved in them, roughly half of the number of passengers on board. When the Titanic sank, the lifeboats lowered were only filled up to an average of 60 percent, which has always troubled me. She set off on her maiden voyage on Wednesday, April 10, 1912, and was due to arrive at New York Pier 59 one week later, on April 17. As played out in the blockbuster 1997 film Titanic directed by James Cameron and starring Kate Winslet and Leonardo DiCaprio, you can see that the ship was the lap of luxury. At 11:40 p.m. on April 14, lookout Frederick Fleet spotted an iceberg immediately ahead, and alerted the bridge. First Officer William Murdoch ordered the Titanic to steer around the iceberg and the engines to be reversed, but it was too late. The starboard side of the ship struck the iceberg, creating a series of holes below the waterline, allowing water to rush in. It soon became clear that the ship was doomed. Between 2:10 and 2:15 a.m., a little over two-and-a-half hours after the Titanic struck the iceberg, her rate of sinking increased suddenly as the boat deck went underwater; as her stern rose out of the water, exposing the propellers, the ship broke into two. The bow was now underwater and the stern remained afloat and buoyant for a few minutes longer, rising to a nearly, and terrifyingly, vertical angle with hundreds of people still clinging to it, before foundering at 2:20 a.m. All of the remaining passengers and crew were flung into water at a temperature of 28 degrees Fahrenheit, or -2 degrees Celsius. Only five thrown into the frigid waters were helped into the lifeboats, though the lifeboats had room for almost 500 more souls. Women and children survived the disaster at rates of about 75 percent and 50 percent, respectively; because of the “women and children first” policy, only 20 percent of the men aboard made it out alive. Today on the show I have one of my favorite interview subjects ever: Gareth Russell, the author of 2019’s The Ship of Dreams: The Sinking of the Titanic and the End of the Edwardian Era. As you’ll hear, he is an expert on the Titanic, and there’s no one better to honor those lives lost and to remember her than him; to me, anyway, this is the absolute definitive book on the Titanic—no questions asked.

Welcome to this special fiction episode of I’d Rather Be Reading—specifically part two in my latest fiction subgenre obsession: royal family fiction. We’ve already had Katharine McGee on the show of the four-part American Royals series, and we will later have the writing duo behind The Royal We and The Heir Affair; today we have the writing duo behind The Royal Game, my latest royal family fiction favorite. (I’d also throw Red, White, and Royal Blue onto this list, as well.) It is a subgenre that is growing and growing in popularity, and not surprisingly, considering how ubiquitous the royal family has become in culture, especially lately. Today you get the chance to meet Linda Keir, a writing duo who has now written four books together and has been writing together since 2016. Linda Keir is a portmanteau of Linda Joffe Hull and Keir Graff, both of whom have successful writing careers on their own and as a team. The Royal Game—which came out on January 30 of this year—is their first foray into royal family fiction, but hopefully not their last. I won’t give too much away, but the loose plot of The Royal Game involves the love story between American pop singer Jennie Jenson and Prince Hugh of England, the heir to the throne. Someone is determined to keep Jennie from becoming a princess, and to have the happy ending to her fairytale, Jennie will have to play “the royal game.” Not everyone is excited about the prospect of an American princess, apparently. Jennie finds parallels between what’s happening to her and Hugh’s mother, Princess Penelope, who died in a mysterious plane crash. (Don’t worry, I ask Linda and Keir if my theories that Jennie and Hugh and Penelope are based on Meghan Markle and Prince Harry and Princess Diana are true.) Jennie wants to know if Penelope is murdered—and worries she might be next. It’s a thrilling mystery, a romantic love story, and really, really good. Today on the show we talk about their process of being a writing team, what they think about the royal family and if they follow it outside of their work on this latest book, why they chose to get into the royal family fiction subgenre, and what, exactly, “the royal game” is, anyway.

When it comes to fashion journalists, the crème de la crème is my guest today, Teri Agins. Today’s episode is celebrating the 10-year anniversary of Teri’s book Hijacking the Runway: How Celebrities Are Stealing the Spotlight from Fashion Designers, which speaks to how celebrity interfaces with fashion and how fashion interfaces with celebrity. There used to be a delineation between fashion designers and fashion and supermodels on the one hand, and then celebrities, like actors and actresses and musicians, on the other. On the show today, Teri talks about when those lines started to blur, and when celebrities could no longer be one note—in addition to being, say, an actor, or a musician, or what have you, seemingly every celebrity now has a perfume, or a beauty line, or a fashion collection, or some kind of alcoholic beverage, or some (if not many) entrepreneurial ventures. It’s almost like being an actor is just the launchpad to becoming a multihyphenate and a mogul. It wasn’t always this way, believe it or not. In today’s episode we talk about how so-called “traditional” fashion designers feel about celebrities like Jessica Simpson, Victoria Beckham, and Mary-Kate and Ashley Olsen (of the brand The Row) infiltrating the fashion industry; when celebrities decided to not just endorse products but own them; the magic formula as to why some celebrity fashion brands take off and some flop; how the emergence of reality stars changed the game even further; and how the pendulum swings both ways, as some designers are coming to prominence or deepening their fame on reality television as well (think, in particular, Project Runway). Let me tell you about the powerhouse that is Teri: she worked as a writer for Fairchild Publications in the 1970s, and after she and her former husband moved to Brazil for five years, she worked as a freelance writer for The New York Times and Time. In 1984, she became a reporter at The Wall Street Journal, where she wrote a business column; in 1989, Teri was assigned to develop the fashion beat for The Wall Street Journal, covering fashion from a business perspective. She was named senior special writer in 1995 and retired from The Wall Street Journal in 2009 but continues to freelance for them, including writing the popular fashion column “Ask Teri.” She has also written for Vogue, Town & Country, Essence, Harper’s Bazaar, and more. In addition to Hijacking the Runway, Teri also wrote the book The End of Fashion: How Marketing Changed the Clothing Game Forever. Quick aside—in the middle of our conversation, New York City experienced a 4.8 magnitude earthquake—remember that last Friday?—and, true to the force of nature Teri is, she didn’t even bat an eye. I can’t wait for you to meet this dynamic woman and learn from her expertise.

Welcome to season 11 of I’d Rather Be Reading! This season we will, of course, continue to cover the latest and greatest nonfiction books, but we’re also going to focus on many events that gripped the nation past and present—like the O.J. Simpson murders (which happened 30 years ago this June), the Oklahoma City bombing, Columbine (which happened 25 years ago this month), and JFK Jr.’s plane crash, which is marking its twenty-fifth anniversary this year. Today on the show we’re digging into a true crime case that’s much more recent: the quadruple homicide of four University of Idaho students on November 13, 2022. Today on the show we are speaking with J. Reuben Appelman about his book While Idaho Slept: The Hunt for Answers in the Murder of Four College Students, released last October. He is from Idaho and has lived there for 25 years; you’ll hear him talk about how his daughter attended U of I and how unlikely even one murder, let alone four, is in the idyllic town of Moscow. He is a private investigator and his true crime memoir, The Kill Jar, inspired the popular Hulu docuseries Children of the Snow. Stick around after the show for a book pick about the Murdaugh murders, one connected to Nirvana (Kurt Cobain committed suicide 30 years ago on April 8), and two nonfiction picks based off of television shows premiering on Hulu and Apple TV+ in the coming week.

Welcome to the season 10 finale, friends! What a great season it has been, with so much more in store in the forthcoming season 11. Today on the show we’re talking about a topic close to my heart as I look to undertake this project this year: getting signed to a literary agent and getting signed to a book deal. I realize this is a podcast for readers, but I also realize that many of you are writers, and maybe you’ve been feeling the nudge too to write that book, whether fiction or nonfiction, that you just can’t get out of your head. The process of getting a book deal is totally overwhelming, but thankfully now we have Lucinda Halpern’s Get Signed: Find an Agent, Land a Book Deal, and Become a Published Author, which walks you step-by-step through the cumbersome process in a way that is easy to understand, digestible, and, most importantly, doable! If you have that idea tugging and gnawing at you, listeners, and it just won’t go away, it’s time to write that book, whatever that book is, and here’s your sign. Lucinda’s book walks us all the way through how to do it; this mystifying process isn’t shrouded in complexity anymore, and through her six-step method you’ll close the book able to write a query letter that gets an agent’s attention, build an effective marketing platform, and go on to write the book you’re meant to write. In today’s conversation we talk about whether the process of finding a literary agent is different for fiction and nonfiction writers, red flags to look out for when choosing an agent, whether an agent is absolutely necessary to land a book deal and impart a boost of confidence for all of you, like me, who think maybe you aren’t good enough or ready to do this. Guess what? You are!

There is no better person to close out March and Women’s History Month on I’d Rather Be Reading than Sarah Ditum, author of the new book Toxic: Women, Fame, and the Tabloid 2000s, which came out on January 23. Through the lens of nine of the biggest female celebrities of the 2000s—Britney Spears, Paris Hilton, Lindsay Lohan, Aaliyah, Janet Jackson, Amy Winehouse, Kim Kardashian, Chyna (the professional wrestler), and Jennifer Aniston, Sarah’s book and this conversation takes a look back at how, well, toxic it was to be a female celebrity in the aughts. As we talk about on the show, with different celebrity magazines picking apart women’s bodies and using women as punching bags, that gave permission for regular people like all of us permission to do the same, and—as Sarah acutely points out—do that not the least of which to ourselves. If you were young and female and coming into your own during this time period as I was, it was not easy, and I’m sure it was the same if you were young and male, too. Celebrity culture in the early aughts was an amalgamation of celebrity sex tapes, tabloids fed by paparazzi willing to do anything to get the shot, Perez Hilton and the internet on its worst behavior, rampant fat-shaming and slut-shaming, and revenge porn. This was the time before all of this was completely unacceptable—sure, it was frowned upon (sometimes), but not unacceptable like it is today, or at least like it is inching towards today. And perhaps no one was treated worse in all of the aforementioned regards than the female celebrity, in a decade where a female celebrity in crisis was the absolute center of attention. Three of the nine women profiled in Sarah’s book—Aaliyah, Amy Winehouse, and Chyna—didn’t survive until present day. This era really was toxic and proof that we can and should always do better in the way we treat women. I’m thankful to Sarah for writing this book and for being here today.

Well, we started our Women in Power series for Women’s History Month with a legendary editor-in-chief and we’re going to end the series with one, too. Today on the show I have Kate Betts, former editor-in-chief at Harper’s Bazaar, a longtime colleague of Anna Wintour’s at Vogue, and the author of one of my all-time favorite memoirs, My Paris Dream: An Education in Style, Slang, and Seduction in the Great City on the Seine. In addition to My Paris Dream, Kate also wrote the book Everyday Icon: Michelle Obama and the Power of Style and reveals in our chat today that she’s working on a third book, which I will devour when it comes out. I first interacted with Kate when I interviewed her for an oral history piece I did in Vanity Fair on Carolyn Bessette-Kennedy’s wedding dress back in 2021—I love that piece, and I’ll link it below. Of course, I’d known of Kate and her work for 25 years prior to us speaking three years ago. After graduating from Princeton, one of Kate’s first big roles was at Fairchild Publications’ European office in Paris, a period of her career that she calls essential to her development as a fashion journalist. Kate was a features writer for the Paris bureau of Fairchild, overseeing fashion coverage for Women’s Wear Daily, W, and M magazines. In this role, she also helped launch W Europe. After two years, she became the bureau chief, and in 1991, she left Paris and Fairchild for New York City and Conde Nast, where she took over as fashion news director at Vogue. She created Vogue’s Index section, and in 1999 took over as editor-in-chief at Harper’s Bazaar. In a testament to Kate’s ferocity, three days after starting at Bazaar, she gave birth to her first child. Kate was a new mom, and the youngest editor ever at America’s oldest fashion magazine. She hired two writers I adore, Bret Easton Ellis and Lynn Hirschberg, and after leaving Bazaar in 2001, Kate freelanced for The New York Times, specifically its Styles section. In 2004, she became the editor of Time’s Style and Design section, and she remains a contributing editor there still today. In addition to freelancing and writing books (as if that’s not enough!), she reports on fashion for CNN, and today we talk about her formative career experiences, her books, what she’d tell her younger self, and she leaves us with incredible book recommendations to add to our “To Be Read” pile.

By Kate Betts:

I have with me the remarkable Kaitlin Menza, another contemporary of mine who has just done so much, it’s baffling. Kaitlin is another journalist whose byline has literally been everywhere you can think of: The Cut. InStyle. Conde Nast Traveler. Elle. Town & Country. Vogue. Marie Claire. Esquire. Business of Home. Rolling Stone. The Hollywood Reporter. Architectural Digest. Cosmopolitan. The New York Times. The Guardian. Time. Vanity Fair. Popular Mechanics. Have to say, I wasn’t expecting that last one, but it’s true! Kaitlin prides herself on sharing the stories of women, whether it’s celebrities you’ve heard of like Paris Hilton, or women sharing personal stories about life events they’ve been through, like the plaintiff in the largest-ever revenge porn case or a mom who was addicted to opiates. She’s spoken to politicians, like the youngest Black woman to serve in Congress, Lauren Underwood. Her stories are famously heavy hitting, like how the number of women in prison is up 1,260 percent in a generation. Now a freelance writer, Kaitlin has also edited for T: The New York Times Style Magazine, House Beautiful, Refinery29, Marie Claire, Cosmopolitan, Business of Home, and Publisher’s Weekly, and she has been on staff at Teen Vogue, Glamour, and Seventeen, and while at the latter, wrote the first American cover stories featuring Zendaya, Kylie Jenner, and Harry Styles. Again—just an absolute dynamo. She has multiple columns now that she writes—“How I Travel” and “How We Pulled It Off” for Conde Nast Traveler, a column at Business of Home, as well as writing extensively about weddings for New York Magazine’s The Cut, which you know I am wildly obsessed with. Speaking of obsessed, Kaitlin was one of the first royal family podcasters—of which I am now one—and was one of the two original hosts of the hit show Royally Obsessed, which led to television appearances on Good Morning America, 20/20, and MSNBC, as well as in Argentina, the Philippines, Canada, and the U.K. After 13 years in New York City, Kaitlin relocated to Taipei, Taiwan in 2022, and we talk about that experience on the show, including how she manages doing business in New York City from all the way across the globe, while also being a new mom. This is actually a level of Superwoman that I didn’t know existed. How Kaitlin is able to get it all done, and done so well, is really, truly incredible. I can’t wait for you to get to know her.

How often is it that you write an essay so oft-quoted and ubiquitous that you define an entire generation by a single color? Today’s guest, Veronique Hyland, did just that, but what could perhaps be called her signature piece isn’t all that she has to offer—and not even close. She is fashion features director at Elle and is also the author of the fantastic 2022 book Dress Code: Unlocking Fashion from the New Look to Millennial Pink. Dress Code is an essay collection centered around the fashion industry, from its history to its importance, why we wear what we wear, and why it matters. The book covers whether gender differentiated fashion will go out of style forever, the appeal of the “French girl” aesthetic, how social media has warped our sense of self-presentation, and so many more thoughtful and interesting takes and perspectives. In addition to her work with Elle and her book, Veronique has also written for The New York Times, The New Yorker, Conde Nast Traveler, W, New York Magazine, and Harper’s Bazaar, and she was an absolute delight to speak to.

By Véronique Hyland:

My two main niches in both my life and my work are books (but you already knew that) and the royal family. You may not know this about me—or maybe you do—but my main specialty coverage area in my work is the royals, and boy, has it been one hell of a ride in the British royal family this year, especially with one Kate Middleton as of late. One of the best royal correspondents in the game is our guest today, Vanity Fair’s Erin Vanderhoof, who is deeply talented and someone I consider to be the gold standard in royal reporting. In addition to covering the royal family, she also covers culture, books, and music for Vanity Fair, and she and fellow royal expert Katie Nicholl co-host the podcast “Dynasty” about the royal family, which I love. Yet another podcast I need more episodes from! Erin’s reporting on the royals has been featured on Today, NBC News, BBC’s Newsnight, CBS Sunday Mornings, and CNN, where, randomly, Erin and I appeared together on a 5 a.m. segment the day after the Queen died talking about her passing. I enjoyed hearing about Erin’s entry point into covering the royals, hearing about her favorite royal family books, and, interestingly, about her past jobs as a teacher and a butcher. Royal reporting is a very interesting beat, and Erin is the leader of the pack.

I know we are still in the thick of March and Women’s History Month and that our Women in Power series has introduced (or reintroduced) you to some phenomenal female writers, but I wanted to take a moment and pay homage to some of my favorite male writers too, because I have many. You can’t go wrong with any of these picks, and I’ll link them all below. Women are worthy of being celebrated, but so are men—and good books are always worthy of being celebrated. I hope you are enjoying the Women in Power series!

When InStyle’s cover for “The Confidence Issue” came out, I tore through Mattie Kahn’s cover profile on Sharon Stone. Listeners, this is a fantastic article, but when it comes to Mattie Kahn’s writing, that’s just what one comes to expect when it comes to her. Mattie is one of the most published writers today, and after working full-time at outlets like Elle and Glamour, she’s now a full-time freelance writer and has written for literally every publication you can dream of: Vogue, The New York Times, The Washington Post, Harper’s Bazaar, Vanity Fair, Conde Nast Traveler, Time, The Atlantic, Town & Country, New York Magazine, Cosmopolitan, Esquire, Seventeen, I could go on and on. Today Mattie and I talk about the secrets to a good celebrity interview, what she wishes she knew before going freelance, how telling stories of powerful women and girls is a running theme throughout her work, and about her first book, Young and Restless: The Girls Who Sparked America’s Revolutions, which came out in June 2023. The book is about teenage girls involved in activist work and, as the book description reads, is “the untold story of the people who have helped spark America’s most transformative social movements throughout history: teenage girls.” Mattie is a Harvard graduate and, in addition to all of the publications she writes for and her book, she also has a Substack called “Things I Ask My Mother.” Mattie Kahn is very deservedly one of my Women in Power.

By Mattie Kahn:

Our Women in Power series for Women’s History Month rolls on—today’s guest is Lesley Jane Seymour, who has been editor-in-chief of four different magazines, something that is just not done. That is legends only stuff right there. I feel extra connected to her because she was editor-in-chief of Marie Claire, the magazine where I now work, from 2001 to 2006. She was also editor-in-chief of Redbook, YM, and More, and before taking on her role as an editor-in-chief worked at Women’s Wear Daily, Vogue, and Glamour, so she has certainly cut a wide swath in this industry. Lesley was another icon of magazines who was very much present for what I call the golden age of magazines, and as we’ll talk about in the show, I think a cornerstone of her story is resilience. In 2016, Meredith Corporation, which owned More, her last editor-in-chief role, announced it was closing the magazine. Lesley went back to school, receiving a master’s degree in sustainability from Columbia. In 2018, she founded Covey Club, an online community for professional women, specifically over 40, that resembled More’s demographic. Lesley calls Covey Club “a meeting place for lifelong learners,” and it continues to thrive today. Lesley maintains it’s never too late to be all that you want to be, and, in addition to all of her work with Covey Club, she hosts the podcast “Reinvent Yourself”; she has really taken what others might wallow in and has turned this into purpose-driven work. She is also the author of two books, On the Edge: 100 Years of Vogue and I Wish My Parents Understood, and she has appeared on every major television news show you can think of from Today to Good Morning America to Hardball to MSNBC and CNN. I can’t wait for you to get to know her.

By Lesley Jane Seymour:

We are going to close this week with such a fun conversation with one of my favorite writers and editors, the spectacular Andrea Lavinthal! Andrea is People magazine’s style and beauty director, which is just as wide of a swath as you think it would be. Andrea has 20 years’ experience as a writer, editor, and content creator, and she has been with People specifically since 2012. In her role, she regularly appears on shows like Today, Good Morning America, and Access, as well as podcasts and radio programs; for one beautiful slice of time, she co-hosted one of my personal favorite podcasts, “People in the ‘90s,” which I beg on today’s episode for her to bring back. Prior to her time at People, Andrea worked for Cosmopolitan, Us Weekly, and SiriusXM, and she has also written three books. Consider this your permission to sit back, take a breather, and enjoy this incredibly entertaining conversation with Andrea.

By Andrea Lavinthal:

Continuing our Women in Power series for Women’s History Month, today I’m bringing you the absolutely fabulous Danielle Pergament, whose work as a contributing editor at Allure, as well as with The New York Times, Goop, Conde Nast Traveler, Women’s Wear Daily, and my new obsession, Air Mail, have been some of the best celebrity profiles and travel writing you’ll read. Here is but a sampling of the A-list women Danielle has interviewed and profiled: every Jennifer possible, first of all—Jennifer Lopez! Jennifer Garner! Jennifer Aniston!—Victoria Beckham, Charlize Theron, Kim Kardashian, Alicia Keys, Sharon Stone, Hillary Duff. I could go on and on. Halsey said, when being interviewed by Danielle, “This wasn’t an interview. This was a therapy session.” There is something very disarming and comfortable about Danielle, particularly her unbelievable ability to self-deprecate, which is a quality I absolutely love in people. As someone who has interviewed celebrities myself, though nowhere near as many or as well as Danielle has done it, I have to tell you that it is a art form, especially when you get to the A-listers among A-listers like Jennifer Aniston or Kim Kardashian, people who have been interviewed a bazillion times. It is difficult to get nuggets out of them that haven’t been told before—but Danielle can do it. Wait until she tells you how she was able to help Jennifer Aniston feel comfortable enough to open up about not having children, or with Charlize Theron, where she talked about aging in Hollywood. Danielle is a master at the celebrity profile; she is also a gifted travel writer and beauty writer. In the past, Danielle has served as Allure’s executive editor and editor at large, as well as editor-in-chief at Goop, and she has also been published at Marie Claire, which you know I have to shout out every time a guest has worked for my wonderful employer. I knew I appreciated Danielle as a writer; after this time with her, I couldn’t get enough of her as a person.

Admittedly, I don’t read a ton of fiction, but one fictional character I deeply enjoy is that of Jordan Manning, born from the mind of Tamron Hall, one of my favorite journalists. Tamron dipped her toe into writing novels with the publication of her debut work of fiction, As the Wicked Watch, back in October 2021. Now, today, March 12, book two in the Jordan Manning series is out, and it’s a great sophomore effort: Watch Where They Hide, another delicious hit of crime fiction. By the way, Tamron addresses in our conversation whether there will be a third Jordan Manning book and…I’m just going to let her tell you. As our Women in Power series continues, Tamron is certainly among the most powerful women in journalism. Since September 2019, she has hosted her eponymous talk show, The Tamron Hall Show, to much success including two Daytime Emmy Awards. Prior to hosting her own talk show, Tamron was a national news correspondent for NBC News, a daytime anchor for MSNBC, host of the show MSNBC Live with Tamron Hall, and a co-host of the third hour of the Today Show. Tamron’s new book, Watch Where They Hide, touches on domestic violence—a subject that, through her sister, Tamron knows all too well, unfortunately. In 2004, Tamron’s sister Renate was murdered after experiencing domestic violence. Though police officers originally informed Tamron’s family of their belief that they knew who murdered Renate, that person was never charged, and the case remains unsolved today. Tamron has made domestic violence awareness and ending domestic violence a cornerstone of her life since, and domestic violence is a part of the story of Marla Hancock in Watch Where They Hide. In the book Marla, a stay-at-home mother, disappears not long after leaving her abusive husband and moving to Indiana with her sister, Shelly, who knows Marla would never leave without bringing her kids with her. Shelly fears that Marla’s disappearance won’t get the attention it deserves, or worse, will go unsolved—see the parallels here?—so, a few weeks after filing a missing person’s report, she enlists the help of TV journalist Jordan Manning, and the twist and turns from there will keep you on the edge of your seat. Plus, stick around after our conversation for two more upcoming television shows based on books to look out for, as well as 11 fiction writers I can’t get enough of.

By Tamron Hall:

In addition to Friday being International Women’s Day, March is Women’s History Month, and that seemed the perfect time to have this series I’ve been concocting in my brain for a while called Women in Power. I am so proud and happy to share my conversations with you! Also, at the end of each episode in this series, I’ll be sharing three books by three female writers whose collections I love, so stick around after the interview for that. Our first guest in the Women in Power series is a legend in the magazine space: Alexandra Shulman, who was editor-in-chief of British Vogue for 25 years. A full quarter century! She is the longest-serving editor in the position and took the helm in 1992; she has become one of the U.K.’s most respected voices in fashion since. Her 25 years at the top of the masthead included many iconic issues of the magazine, like the December 1999 “Millennium Issue,” which became the highest-selling issue of Vogue. You’ll hear me speak about this with her, but I always respected Alexandra’s stance that the magazine never publish pieces on diets or cosmetic surgery, as she didn’t want to tell women a specific way they should look. While still editor in-chief, she published a novel, Can We Still Be Friends?, in 2012, and in 2016, highlighting British Vogue’s centenary year, she published the book Inside Vogue: My Diary of Vogue’s 100th Year. In January 2017, nearing the quarter-century mark in her role, it was announced that she would leave her role that June, and she was succeeded as editor-in-chief by Edward Enninful. Since then, she has published a memoir I loved called Clothes And Other Things That Matter, which came out in 2021. Today we talk about what she’s up to these days (and it’s a lot!), what she’s reading, and, of course, about her time at Vogue.

By Alexandra Shulman:

Have you ever met someone, and you just instantly knew they were someone you wanted to get to know? That’s how I felt when I met today’s guest, Lisa Mayer, the cofounder and CEO of Boss Beauties and the author of Boss Beauty: Inspiration to Be Everything You Want, which is out this upcoming Tuesday, March 12. Boss Beauties is a media and entertainment brand that inspires and elevates the next generation of women and girls, and the book, Boss Beauty, is, first of all, incredibly enjoyable to look at—colorful, and truly a work of art—but also filled with meaningful content, like inspirational quotes, love notes from your future self, advice from your big sis when you feel like giving up, how to reframe our Mondays, and how to make confidence our all-purpose wardrobe. Today, March 8, is International Women’s Day, and inside the pages of this book live the words “Every day is International Women’s Day to me,” so what better day for me to let you get to know Lisa and this book than today? Page after page of the book features wisdom and advice from entertainers, chefs, Olympic athletes, CEOs, an astrophysicist, a Disney legend, a champion NASCAR driver—all of whom teach us how to harness our inner grit, make an impact in the world, learn when to say yes, when to not give up, how to be everything you want, and, of course, be your own Boss Beauty. Lisa was inspired to write this book to bring to the world the business wisdom and mentorship she didn’t have. Ladies, you can be everything you want, and this book will make you believe that and go out and live that truth, once and for all. Core Boss Beauties characteristics include self-love, courage, clarity, grace, and passion, and this book will give you the inspiration and that extra push you may need to take charge and become the CEO of your own life. If you’re looking to be a force in the world and be everything you want to be, this book and this conversation are for you. Plus, stay tuned at the end for by top television (and movie!) picks based off of books for spring 2024.

I’m so pleased to share with you a special bonus episode discussing the Oscars, which are quickly approaching this Sunday, March 10. The Academy Awards are the culmination of awards season, and there’s so much to discuss when it comes to this year’s ceremony. Will Oppenheimer sweep the awards, as is predicted? Why wasn’t Barbie’s star Margot Robbie nominated for Best Actress, or its director, Greta Gerwig, nominated for Best Director? Will Lily Gladstone of Killers of the Flower Moon make history by winning Best Actress, or will the coveted prize go to Emma Stone, star of Poor Things? There’s so much to look forward to, and, in honor of Hollywood’s biggest night, I have with me a gentleman who could easily be called an Oscars guru: Dave Karger, author of the new book 50 Oscar Nights: Iconic Stars and Filmmakers on Their Career Defining Wins, which came out on January 23. The anecdotes in this book are absolutely second to none, and Dave talks to everyone for the book, from Meryl Streep and Steven Spielberg to Julia Roberts and Martin Scorsese to Jane Fonda and Clint Eastwood; the book features never-before-told stories of the crème de la crème of awards shows and is told through a collection of interviews with actors, filmmakers, craftspeople, and those that helped bring the film to life and then won an Oscar for it. All told the winners included in the book span 60 years of Oscar winners and include quite a few that have achieved the elusive EGOT status, signifying that they’ve won an Emmy, Grammy, Oscar, and a Tony. Heretofore, only 19 people have done this, by the way, including Elton John, Whoopi Goldberg, and John Legend, all of whom are profiled in Dave’s book. Dave is a film expert, an award-winning journalist, and a host on Turner Classic Movies. He’s been the Oscars expert on the Today Show for nearly a quarter century and has spent over 15 years writing about the Oscars for Entertainment Weekly. He has cohosted ABC’s Live from the Red Carpet pre-show and has served as the Academy’s official red carpet greeter on Oscar night. So, to put it mildly, Dave knows the Oscars! The stories he was able to get out of some of the most famous people in the world through this book are truly remarkable. In our conversation, Dave reveals if any of the celebrities he interviewed left him starstruck, where most people keep their Oscar statuette, how heavy the statuette is (I was shocked by his answer!), which Oscar moments make his so called Mount Rushmore of iconic moments from the awards show, the relevancy of winning an Oscar today, and, yes, I had to get his Oscar predictions. It’s a can’t miss conversation that I can’t wait for you to tune into.

Today’s conversation, if nothing else, was made just for me—and I hope many of you, as well. Two of my favorite subjects to read about are the British royal family and U.S. presidents, and those two subject matters meet today thanks to David Charter, author of Royal Audience: 70 Years, 13 Presidents, One Queen’s Special Relationship with America, out March 5. In the book David zooms in on one facet of the Special Relationship between the U.K. and the U.S.—the relationship of the late Queen Elizabeth with the 13 U.S. presidents she knew in her record-breaking 70 year reign on the British throne, from 1952 to her death in 2022. This book traces the Queen’s relationship with each president from Eisenhower to Biden—and she was especially close to four presidents during that time period. Do you think you can guess who? You’ll have to listen to the episode to find out. Her late Majesty loved the U.S.; on a visit in 1957, for example, she requested to go to a football game and a supermarket in Maryland—and she did just that. Any viewer of The Crown knows the less-than-great exchange between First Lady Jacqueline Kennedy and the Queen, who were roughly the same age; today on the show we unpack that interesting encounter between two of the most famous women in the world. Around the Reagan presidency, the Queen developed such a love affair with the U.S. that, in addition to state visits, she took five private visits to the U.S., mostly centered around horseracing. I was so touched by this anecdote: after the September 11, 2001, attacks on the U.S., the Queen sang “The Star-Spangled Banner,” the first time she had ever sung a national anthem for a foreign country, and the first time she had sung a national anthem, period, as she didn’t sing “God Save the Queen” to herself. This moment is but one example of her class and dignity, in my opinion. Her last state visit to the U.S. was during the George W. Bush administration, in May 2007. From then on out, U.S. presidents came to her. Today on the show David and I talk about subjects like royal protocol and U.S. presidents and how, all told, the Queen visited 15 U.S. states and Washington, D.C.; I love this quote David has in here from The Washington Post from 1991: “Two centuries after George III lost the colonies, Queen Elizabeth is in danger of winning them back.” She was very difficult not to love. I gobbled up this book and wanted more, and I can’t wait for you to hear from David. He became the U.S. editor of The Times in 2018 and is based, perhaps appropriately for this book, in Washington, D.C. Before that, he was the chief political correspondent, Brussels correspondent, and Berlin correspondent at The Times, and is now the assistant U.S. editor of the publication. Get ready for a fascinating conversation!

Today on the show, we’re talking about loneliness. Now, before you switch off this episode and head off to what you might consider greener pastures, let me reframe loneliness for you: it can actually have an upside. Today’s guest Charlotte Donlon writes, in her book The Great Belonging: How Loneliness Leads Us to Each Other, “Everyone knows loneliness. Some may experience it more often. Some may find relief from it more quickly. Some may deny or avoid it. But I don’t think any of us escapes its company entirely, and I’m no longer sure we should.” She adds in the book that “Being human requires a touch of loneliness.” Loneliness has reached epidemic proportions since the pandemic, and, as many of you will relate to, you can be lonely even if you are surrounded by people. On the other side of loneliness is belonging, and that’s what Charlotte’s book centers around. She writes “We can deny our loneliness, or we can embrace it and step into the great belonging.” What is the great belonging? Well, take a listen to our conversation and read Charlotte’s book to find out. Charlotte is fantastic, and was actually introduced to me by Carla Jean Whitley, a dear friend of the podcast and of mine. In her book, Charlotte asks “What if loneliness is a necessary part of the human condition? What if it is a current that leads us deeper into belonging—to ourselves, to each other, and to God?” Now, I have self-disclosed many times that I am a Christian on the show; we talk about faith, specifically our shared Christian faith, in this episode, but this book and this conversation is for all faiths, including those of you who may not have one. In this book, Charlotte encourages us to, instead of turning away from the waters of loneliness for fear they will engulf us, wade in and see what we find there. In the book, Charlotte offers tools, resources, and practices for transforming loneliness into true belonging, and I can’t wait for you to hear from her.

One of my personal favorite subjects to study is First Ladies—I am completely compelled by these women, regardless of party affiliation, and I’ve read just about every book on them as a group, as well as many individual biographies of these dynamic women. Today on the show I have with me Katie Rogers, White House correspondent for The New York Times, to discuss her first book, the fantastic American Woman: The Transformation of the Modern First Lady, from Hillary Clinton to Jill Biden, which is out February 27. In the book, Katie delves into the transformation of the modern First Lady. The role of First Lady has definitely changed from Martha Washington to Dr. Jill Biden, but even more granularly, it has changed so much from the 1990s and Barbara Bush and Hillary Clinton to the present day, in particular Dr. Biden’s refusal to give up her role as an educator in favor of being First Lady full-time, as all of her predecessors have done. In the book and in our conversation today, Katie gets into how we ask so much of our First Ladies yet give them no proper blueprint on how to do their job. (We also don’t pay them, and there’s no barometer of what a successful First Lady is or does.) We talk about what will happen when the U.S. finally elects a female president, and what the role of First Gentleman, if that is what he is called, will look like. There is so much depth to this conversation—I can all but promise you that you won’t look at the role of the First Lady the same ever again. Katie has worked at The Times since 2014 and has been a White House correspondent since 2018, covering two presidential administrations and writing extensively about domestic policy, foreign policy, and, perhaps most interestingly to me, the complicated dynamics of First Families. Before writing for The Times, Katie was a reporter at The Guardian and The Washington Post. I am excited for you to meet her and learn from her in this episode.

We’ve got yet another first on the show today—our very first cookbook author! Yes, this is a cookbook, filled with delicious recipes and mouthwatering food photos, but this is a cookbook with a twist. It is part cookbook and part memoir of its author, renowned chef Missy Robbins. It really is as much about self discovery as it is about food, and that’s what makes it extra compelling. Missy actually has two books, Breakfast, Lunch, Dinner…Life: Recipes and Adventures from My Home Kitchen, and Pasta: The Spirit and Craft of Italy’s Greatest Food, both of which are out now (and are linked below). In this episode, we specifically talk about Breakfast, Lunch, Dinner…Life, and in our conversation Missy and I talk about The Bear, which is a show I totally binged—and you should too if you haven’t yet. Missy introduced me to the term “kitchen culture” and said that, probably very much for the best, the type of kitchen culture on display in The Bear would not be acceptable at her restaurants. Speaking of, Missy has two restaurants, Lilia, which opened in 2016, and Misi, which opened in 2018. She takes us into the busy and nonstop life of a chef, gives us her best cooking tips, and gives us a peek behind the curtain of the restaurant industry, including winning a Michelin star, which Missy has done at two different restaurants, actually. She is actually only one of 10 women to have a Michelin star, which of course is incredibly imbalanced. Missy’s specialty is Italian food, and both Lilia and Misi are of that food genre. Missy also introduced me through this book to the concept of being a food tourist, which is something I’m adopting immediately. In addition to being a Michelin star chef, Missy appeared on season four of Top Chef Masters, and has worked at many restaurants you’ve heard of, including Spiaggia in Chicago, where she frequently cooked for Barack and Michelle Obama. No pressure, right? She then became executive chef at A Voce, changing the menu completely with the exception of two dishes, and oversaw the opening of its second location. In addition to all of this, she is in such a balanced, healthy place in her life, and I know you’ll enjoy getting to know her through our conversation.

Yet another pinch me moment this week—today on the show we have Audrey Hepburn’s son, Luca Dotti, and Meghan Friedlander, who together wrote the beautiful and compelling book Audrey Hepburn in Paris. Meghan is the curator of the popular Audrey fan site Rare Audrey Hepburn, and Luca? Well, he knew Audrey better than almost any human being can say. I am a huge Audrey Hepburn fan, so the thought of spending time with one of her two sons is unbelievable to me. The book also includes a foreward by Giambattista Valli, and the book explores and celebrates Audrey’s lifelong connection to Paris, featuring all of the places in the City of Light she loved the most and telling her story there. The book has never-before-published anecdotes and photographs and digs into her family, friendships, films, photoshoots, and fashions, especially her soul mate relationship with friend and fashion designer Hubert de Givenchy. You will be left breathless and speechless, both by the book itself and the stories and photos within it, and by this conversation. In this book we get a glimpse of the iconic actress’ beautiful life there, and each chapter of the book focuses on a different aspect of Paris that made it so precious to Audrey. Audrey never actually lived in Paris, but she was an honorary Parisienne. Towards the end of the book, it reads that “She would form some of her happiest memories in the life-altering city.” It was endlessly enjoyable reading about them. Plus, stick around to hear about what writers I’d love to invite to my dinner party or interview, but won’t be able to, at least not on this side of heaven. Imagine: Nora Ephron. Maya Angelou. Dominick Dunne. Julia Reed. And little old me. I may not ever be able to have them on the show (they’ve all left us for a better place), but I can at least have the honor of talking to you about them.

Surprise! Today is a special fiction pick day, and I have one of the most popular writers of fiction on the market today: New York Times bestselling author Katharine McGee, author of the wildly beloved American Royals series. The four-part series debuted in 2019 and wrapped in 2023, and asks the compelling question “What if America had a royal family? What if, instead of becoming president, George Washington became king instead?” As a royals editor, royal podcast co-host, and general royal obsessive, I couldn’t get enough of this series. (Katharine is also the author of the popular Thousandth Floor trilogy, but today we’re talking about American Royals.) In addition to talking about the royals (come on, we had to!), we also talk about Katharine’s process in writing fiction and what we can expect from her in 2024.

All by Katharine McGee:

Life is full of pinch me moments, and this certainly is one: talking to the Savannah Guthrie about our shared faith in God. All glory to God for this conversation! The public facing Savannah is the co-anchor of Today on NBC, a position she’s held for nearly 12 years, since July 2012. She’s a former attorney turned NBC News professional who, in addition to her Today responsibilities, is an NBC News anchor, a substitute anchor on NBC Nightly News, and, since 2012, she’s hosted the Macy’s Thanksgiving Day parade and the annual Rockefeller Center Christmas tree lighting. In her personal life, she’s married to Michael Feldman, and they have two children. But here’s the more private side of Savannah that you might not be as familiar with: a woman of deep, deep faith whose faith is imperfect (just like the rest of us) but whose faith is firmly rooted in the belief that mostly what God does is love us. In her new book, Mostly What God Does: Reflections on Seeking and Finding His Love Everywhere, Savannah is extraordinarily candid about her faith, sharing how it has impacted her and how it can impact us all, if we’d be open to receiving it. It is a beautiful book written by a beautiful soul, one who I can’t wait for you to get to know a little more through this conversation.

Today’s episode is a tough one—but it is also such a beautiful one. I want to insert a trigger warning here: my guest and I will be discussing the loss of a child to stillbirth today, so if you are grieving any type of pregnancy loss (or any type of loss, period) this conversation may be upsetting to you. Please take care of yourself and return to the conversation when you can. This is an absolutely beautiful, powerful conversation with a dear friend of mine, Vera Chapman, who is also the first children’s book author we’ve ever had on the show. Vera’s book, Our Baby In Our Hearts, focuses on the real life experience that her two living children, Grayson and Ivey, faced when confronted with the loss of their baby brother, Hayes, on February 15, 2021. (Yes, this episode is being released on Hayes’ third birthday.) Our Baby In Our Hearts offers practical mindfulness exercises to help young hearts cope with big feelings. It is also stunningly illustrated and will truly be so moving to anyone, but especially anyone who has experienced pregnancy loss. After losing Hayes in 2021, Vera has turned her pain into purpose, not only writing this book but also creating the “Light in Loss” daily healing affirmation cards series for women. She is the founder of the wellness coaching practice Resonating Soul Wellness and has over a decade of experience supporting women through coaching and counseling. I am so proud to call her my friend, and today’s esteemed guest.

I first became familiar with the dynamic Jennie Allen in the thick of the COVID-19 pandemic in 2020, when my Bible study group did a study on Jennie’s book Get Out of Your Head: Stopping the Spiral of Toxic Thoughts, which is a book worth reading anytime, but especially in the summer of 2020. Now she’s back with a new book called Untangle Your Emotions: Naming What You Feel and Knowing What to Do About It, which is out February 13. As you’ll hear Jennie and I discuss, Untangle Your Emotions is a perfect companion piece to Get Out of Your Head which, by the way, was a New York Times bestseller. Untangle Your Emotions dives deep into understanding where our emotions come from, what to do with them, and how to honor God in processing all that we feel. Jennie admits that this is the most difficult book she’s ever written, and the subject matter is tough—but through this book and this conversation, if we take it all to heart, we can walk away so much the better for it. Jennie—thank you for writing a difficult book. It will touch so many lives, and it has already touched mine.

Today on the show we have the remarkable Patti Davis, daughter of U.S. President Ronald Reagan and First Lady Nancy Reagan. Patti’s new book, Dear Mom and Dad: A Letter About Family, Memory, and the America We Once Knew is a book, in Patti’s own words, about acceptance, forgiveness, and moving on from the past, a book that—though Patti’s parents were much more famous than most, even before her father entered politics—anyone can relate to. There’s not a person among us who hasn’t at one point or another struggled with their parents, as the parent-child relationship is so complicated; this is Patti’s story, and it’s a powerful one. When her father became president, Patti became Ribbon, her Secret Service code name. The complexities that go along with being the child of a president are daunting, and we talk about that in today’s episode, as well as family secrets, living life as the world watched, and what she’d like to say to her father and mother after their deaths in 2004 and 2016, respectively.

I am so pleased to have Dr. Caroline Leaf on the show today to impart knowledge from her 30-year career as an applied neuroscientist. I originally intended to do a career retrospective on Dr. Leaf’s many books, but quickly realized that if I did that, this would become an hours and hours long episode. So I decided to choose one of her books, Cleaning Up Your Mental Mess: 5 Simple, Scientifically Proven Steps to Reduce Anxiety, Stress, and Toxic Thinking, to zoom in on for our conversation today—but I highly recommend all of her books. In this book (and in this conversation), she teaches us what mental mess is, how to practice mind management, what neuroplasticity is, and about the neurocycle, which she formulated. The neurocycle has, amazingly, statistically reduced depression and anxiety by a staggering 81 percent! I guarantee you’ll learn something in this episode, and for this episode in particular, I’d recommend listening when you can really absorb what Dr. Leaf is saying. Some episodes on the show are light and frothy and can be listened to while multitasking; I’d say this episode is not one of those. To get maximum impact from what Dr. Leaf is teaching us, set aside some time for yourself to truly take all of this in, because you know what? You deserve it. Dr. Leaf is also a podcaster, and in addition to her own show, “Cleaning Up Your Mental Mess,” she is an extremely frequent guest on other podcasts. That’s actually how I found Dr. Leaf—from hearing her on other podcasts and then discovering her work. She has spent three decades researching the mind-brain connection, the nature of mental health, and the formation of memory, and her work centers around helping people learn how to use their mind to detox and grow their brain to succeed in every area of their lives—talk about work that truly matters!

For our season nine finale I have a legendary journalist, Laurence Leamer, here to talk about his book Capote’s Women: A True Story of Love, Betrayal, and a Swan Song for an Era, which is the basis for the new Ryan Murphy show on FX, Feud: Capote vs. the Swans. (I loved the first iteration of Feud—about Bette Davis and Joan Crawford—and I love everything Ryan Murphy does.) The show has a cast as deep as any ocean: Naomi Watts. Diane Lane. Demi Moore. Calista Flockhart. Chloe Sevigny. Molly Ringwald. And Tom Hollander as Truman Capote. It premieres on FX on January 31 (and the next day on Hulu) and it will be appointment television for me. Through this book, this series, and this conversation, we dip our toe into New York City high society, into the world of Truman Capote and his “Swans”—glamorous women who were Capote’s closest confidantes. Babe Paley, Slim Keith, CZ Guest, Gloria Guinness, Pamela Harriman, Lee Radziwell, and Marella Agnelli were not just beautiful and wealthy, but intelligent and interesting. Then, enter the “feud” portion of the program: Capote wrote a piece for Esquire called “La Cote Basque 1965,” in which he puts the Swans’ dirty secrets in black and white, and in print for the entire world to read. The women cut Capote off totally; it was social suicide, and it led to Capote’s downfall that ultimately resulted in his death. Why did he do this? He thought they’d be too dumb to know the piece was about them. It was one of the worst decisions he could have ever made. Here to tell us all about it is the legendary Laurence Leamer, who is regarded as an expert on the Kennedy family and who has written biographies of not just the Kennedys but also the Reagans, Johnny Carson, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Ingrid Bergman, and Donald Trump’s resort, Mar-a-Lago. By the way, I have to throw this detail in here—his book about Mar-a-Lago was controversial and banned him from the resort for life. Not unlike that detail, this book and this conversation are as compelling as it comes.

No matter if you are a parent or not, this conversation is for you—after all, we all have parents, right? Today’s guest is Dr. Aliza Pressman, a Dartmouth and Columbia-educated developmental psychologist whose new book The 5 Principles of Parenting: Your Essential Guide to Raising Good Humans is out January 23. In today’s conversation we discuss her five principles, all of which begin with R: relationships, reflection, regulation, rules, and repair, all leading to the sixth R, which is resilience. We talk today about the science and art of parenting—how there is no right way to parent, reparenting ourselves, how it feels harder than ever to be a parent. Parenting is, simply put, the hardest work anyone will ever do—I can’t wait for all of you parents to hear what Dr. Pressman has to say in this episode, and I hope that it absolves you of your mom guilt or dad guilt. I hope her words will give you the permission you need to let that guilt go, once and for all. It is such an enriching conversation. Dr. Pressman has an extremely popular podcast of her own, “Raising Good Humans," and she herself is the mother of two teenagers and has a lot of wisdom to impart to us.

Hi friends! If you didn’t know, I am the Senior Celebrity and Royals Editor at Marie Claire magazine, and as of this month I am in charge of our monthly virtual book club, #ReadwithMC. Seeing as though we already read together here on I’d Rather Be Reading, why not read on #ReadwithMC, too? It is my hope to grow this book club on par with some of my favorite book clubs, like those from Jenna Bush Hager, Reese Witherspoon, Queen Camilla, and Oprah Winfrey. (Now, look. I’m never going to be Oprah. But a girl can try.) If you’re listening to this show I hope you like my taste in books, and you know that just how I only bring you the best of the best on I’d Rather Be Reading, I plan to do the same with #ReadwithMC. 

I am so excited to tell you about my very first #ReadwithMC book pick, and that is One in a Millennial: On Friendships, Feelings, Fangirls, and Fitting In by Kate Kennedy, which is out January 23, this Tuesday. Kate is a podcaster so many know and love; she hosts “Be There in Five” and is a dynamic pop culture commentator. When I read One in a Millennial, I felt so seen. Kate is a year younger than me. I was born in 1986 and I believe Kate was born in 1987. In this book, Kate wrote everything I wish I could have written about being a millennial but I probably wouldn’t be able to articulate as concisely and perfectly as she did. I laughed, I cried, I found in Kate the voice of a generation. This book essentially nails down the millennial experience into a 336-page book. I could wax on and on, but this book encapsulates the experience of being a millennial largely through the lens of pop culture—an exploration of the millennial zeitgeist and the life lessons learned (for better and for worse) from being a member of this generation.

Below you’ll find some useful links:

To say that having Kate Bowler here today is an honor is something I don’t say lightly. Kate is so gentle, soothing, and easy to open up to that I cry at the end of this episode; her new book of daily devotions, Have a Beautiful, Terrible Day!: Daily Meditations for the Ups, Downs, and In Betweens, will bring out emotions in you, as well. I appreciate everything about this conversation, but especially Kate confirming that faith and fear can and do coexist, and that it is okay. Kate is a three-time New York Times bestselling author, a graduate of Yale and Duke, a wildly popular podcaster, a professor at Duke, and, perhaps most blessedly, a cancer survivor. She’s also a truly wonderful person who is just as lovely off mic as she is on. Prepare to fall in love with her!

For episode two of two of our bonus Mean Girls content, we’ve got Rosalind Wiseman on the show today, whose 2002 book Queen Bees and Wannabes: Helping Your Daughter Survive Cliques, Gossip, Boyfriends, and the New Realities of Girl World was the basis for Tina Fey’s screenplay for the original 2004 Mean Girls film. This book—which is currently undergoing its third revision—is the go-to manual for being a teenage girl and raising a teenage girl. This isn’t Rosalind’s only book—she has written nine and has multiple New York Times bestsellers—but it’s likely her most well-known book, and Rosalind is a subject matter expert when it comes to girls and the complex social issues they face, like cliques, gossip, bullying, self-image, social hierarchy, and (of course) boys.

The godfather of emotional intelligence is on the show today! Dr. Daniel Goleman’s groundbreaking bestseller Emotional Intelligence was released nearly 30 years ago; I studied Dr. Goleman’s work in college (and I have been out of college for, unfortunately, many, many years). Emotional intelligence is the key to success in leadership and life, and in his latest book Optimal: How to Sustain Personal and Organizational Excellence Every Day, Dr. Goleman teaches us how to reach peak performance through emotional intelligence while avoiding burnout and maintaining balance. Sound too good to be true? It’s not! It’s totally attainable. If you’re looking to achieve results in your life and your work—plus fulfillment and satisfaction—let Dr. Goleman teach you how to get to your optimal level.

Surprise! I’m here with a bonus episode today celebrating the pop culture juggernaut that is Mean Girls, in honor of the release of the musical film yesterday. To talk about Mean Girls—yes, the 2024 film, but also the 2004 original film and the Broadway musical, which debuted in 2018—I have Jennifer Keishin Armstrong, who has actually been on the show before. She joined me in late 2021 to chat about Sex and the City and she’s back today to talk about another pop culture phenomenon we both love. Jennifer is a New York Times bestselling author and a pop culture historian, and her latest book, So Fetch: The Making of Mean Girls (and Why We’re Still So Obsessed with It) comes out January 16. Interestingly enough, Jennifer and her publisher did not time the book’s release four days after the new Mean Girls movie on purpose—it just worked out that way. Talk about happenstance! As we approach the 20-year anniversary of the 2004 original in April, I’m wondering: will we ever see a proper Mean Girls 2 featuring Lindsay Lohan, Rachel McAdams, Amanda Seyfried, and Lacey Chabert? After all, three of the four original Plastics did do a commercial together late last year. What is the Broadway musical like, and is the new movie worth seeing? Do younger generations relate to the original film like my generation did? (After all, we were in high school at the time and the movie’s target audience.) What are some behind-the-scenes details about the filming of the movie we might not know? I have questions, and Jennifer has all the answers.

If I told you that today’s episode—the eighth and final in our January Wellness Series—could help you stop anxiety, burnout, and fatigue before they even start, I know your ears would perk up. Dr. Linnea Passaler is working to do just that—shift from reactive treatment to proactive healing—for nervous system dysregulation, which is so often not spoken about but can contribute to a number of problems both mentally and physically. She has written a five-stage plan in her new book Heal Your Nervous System: The 5-Stage Plan to Reverse Nervous System Dysregulation, and we discuss the five stages of awareness, regulation, restoration, connection, and expansion on the show today. We talk about so much today, including how stress and fear affects everyone differently; as ever, I learned so much, and I am confident that you will, too.

For the only throwback pick of the January Wellness Series, I present to you the fabulous Dr. Samantha Boardman, who is talking to us today about vitality. Let’s be honest: do you ever think about vitality, let alone in your day-to-day life? If I put you on the spot and quizzed you, could you even totally define what vitality means? Today we not only define it but help you understand that vitality is a verb and have practical steps for how to implement it in your daily life. We also talk about building resilience, countering stress, and how it’s time to eliminate the phrase “When things calm down…” from our lexicon. I guarantee you’ll look at life just a bit differently after listening to this episode.

This might shock you (or maybe it won’t) but 75 percent of Americans don’t get the federally recommended weekly minimum of 150 minutes of moderate intensity exercise (or 75 minutes of vigorous exercise), let alone the recommended two days of full body strength training. When we think about getting healthier, we often think about nutrition, as we should—but exercise is a critical part of the equation, too. Our guest today, Dr. Gabrielle Lyon, puts forth in her new book Forever Strong: A New Science Based Strategy for Aging Well that, instead of focusing so closely on decreasing fat on and in our bodies, we should focus instead on increasing muscle. Muscles, Dr. Lyon says, are the key to aging well; she even calls muscles the fountain of youth, says healthy muscle is imperative to a body’s function, and writes that muscle is the organ of longevity. She is a practitioner of muscle-centric medicine, and after listening to this episode, you might be, too.

As our January Wellness Series continues, today we are speaking to the dynamic Neal Allen about taming our inner critic. We all have one, and it’s called the superego; the superego was developed in our respective childhoods as a survival mechanism, but as adults, we no longer need it for protection—but for so many of us, its presence in our lives is cumbersome at best and extremely damaging at its worst. The good news? Our inner critic can be quieted, allowing us to live our best lives. Neal teaches us how through his book and this conversation, finally examining a critical aspect of the human psyche—the superego—that often gets ignored. Listeners, you also might be interested to know that Neal is married to the writer Anne Lamott, and often refers to himself as Mr. Anne Lamott (which I love him for).

What if I told you that it was possible to control anxiety, ADHD, OCD, depression, and more by what you eat (or don’t eat)? That it was completely possible to calm your mind with food? That’s what today’s episode is all about, and we’re talking to Harvard nutritional psychiatrist Dr. Uma Naidoo about the “powerful medicine of food,” looking at a groundbreaking, full-body approach to mental health, how we can enhance our overall mental wellbeing through what we eat, and how our daily food choices can help treat and prevent a wide range of cognitive and psychological health issues. So fascinating—and proof that we have more control over our health than maybe we even realized heretofore.

For today’s January Wellness Series conversation, we’re back to mental and emotional wellness, specifically this relatable topic: caring too much about what others think of you. Our guest today, Dr. Michael Gervais, calls caring too much about other people’s opinions “the single greatest constrictor of human potential,” and introduces the concept of “FOPO” (fear of other people’s opinions), assessing that it is a human epidemic in our society. (I know it has impacted my life personally in spades over the years.) We all have a basic human need to belong, but it’s when we let others’ opinions of us control our lives that we know we need to make a change—and I hope for all of us that 2024 is the year we begin to or continue to live our authentic lives, not chained to what others think of us. Michael has taught companies like Microsoft, Amazon, and AT&T to perform to the highest level, as well as Olympians, Fortune 100 leaders and teams, and world renowned artists and musicians—and now it’s our turn for a one on-one coaching session. There is a huge connection between the mind and human performance, and we’re delving into it today.

As our January Wellness Series rolls on, today we switch from mental and emotional wellness to physical wellness. Aging is a good thing—hey, it certainly beats the alternative, right?—but I’d venture to guess that all of us want to continue to grow older without looking or feeling older. Today’s guest, Dr. Anthony Youn, teaches us how to do just that, looking at environmental and lifestyle factors to turn back and freeze the clock. What we eat, how much we sleep, and our skincare routines allow us to have an ample amount of control on aging, and we cover the gamut in today’s episode—this might be one of the most jam-packed informational episodes we’ve ever done on the show and I know you’ll walk away having learned so much about how to look and feel younger as we enter 2024 and, interestingly, though Dr. Youn is one of the most well-known plastic surgeons in the country (his social media following tops 14 million!), we don’t mention plastic surgery at all in this episode—it’s all natural methods to staying, as he puts it, “younger for life.”