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The Image Salon Podcast

The Image Salon Podcast

By The Image Salon

A podcast from Your High Touch Creative Partner: Image Salon. Conversations with photographers exploring creativity, life and building a career in photography.

www.imagesalon.com
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#27 Mandee Johnson: Super Serious

The Image Salon PodcastJan 20, 2021

00:00
01:02:00
#37 Davina Plus Daniel: Stepping Into The Unknown
May 31, 202201:04:07
#36 Lucy McLachlan: Rockenroll Photography
Nov 30, 202153:58
#35 Lauren Merrell: Strength In Pride
Oct 05, 202145:07
#34 Chris Garbacz: Building Studio Ninja
Sep 27, 202157:22
#33 Sabrina Gebhardt: Develop Systems. Gain Creative Freedom.
Sep 20, 202150:04
#32 Two Mann: Create A Market For Your Work
Jul 29, 202146:57
Replay: George Varanakis
Jun 30, 202147:59
#31 Wesley Verhoeve: Step by Step
Jun 11, 202148:23
#30 Colie James: Good Processes Grow Business

#30 Colie James: Good Processes Grow Business

Colie is a visual storyteller based in Boulder Colorado who documents the fleeting moments of family life through photography and video.

www.coliejamesphotography.com

 

Image Salon is a Montreal-based photography & retouching studio.

Your high-touch creative partner. Outsource without compromise.

www.imagesalon.com

Music and Sound Production by Philip Creamer

Apr 26, 202150:20
#29 Tiara Brouse and João Guedes: Inwards Exploration
Apr 07, 202158:54
#28 Joshua Dwain: Progress and Growth
Jan 27, 202152:54
#27 Mandee Johnson: Super Serious

#27 Mandee Johnson: Super Serious

Mandee is a Photographer and a Producer of comedy, who recently released her first photo book - Super Serious: An Oral History of Los Angeles Independent Stand-up comedy www.mandeejohnson.com

Image Salon is a Montreal-based photography & retouching studio. Your high touch creative partner. Outsource without compromise. www.imagesalon.com

Music and Sound Production by Philip Creamer

This conversation was recorded on Nov 18, 2020.

Jan 20, 202101:02:00
#26 Oli Sansom: Who are you going to be? What are you going to create?
Dec 10, 202056:18
#25 Kirsten Lewis: Be patient

#25 Kirsten Lewis: Be patient

Kirsten Lewis is one of the world's best documentary family photographers. A non-conformist who seeks to find her own way. This conversation was recorded in February 2020 at WPPI. Moments to listen for:

You're not getting to the picture fast enough because you're not willing to slow down.  - 15:53

“Shoot a lot. Keep practicing let your guard down. Don't be afraid that you're too close, or you're not good enough, or you're influencing the scene. Just be yourself within that moment and learn how to be a really good observer. I recently came up with this phrase that came out as I was working with a student, I think it not only applies to photography but to life. I said 'You're not getting to the picture fast enough because you're not willing to slow down', and I think in life, that's the case too, you're not getting to the answer fast enough because you're not willing to slow down.”

 

Picture making isn't always about pressing the shutter - 17:24

“Picture making isn't always about pressing the shutter. In fact, I think that's only 10% of being a good photographer. I think being a good photographer is being a good human being. It's being empathetic. It is being sensitive to situations. The best photographers are the ones that are able to take in every element of a scene and ask themselves what do I want to say about what's happening in front of me?” 

 

Be patient. Good wine takes a long time to age - 29:58

“Good wine takes a really long time to age. I feel the same way about life in general. You have to give yourself time to continue to mature and grow as a human being and your work as an artist. You have to give yourself grace and patience, that it's not going to happen overnight. Sure, you can learn all the technicals, but that doesn't make you a great storyteller. In my opinion, there are many out there that are beyond proficient in terms of execution and the crafting of a picture. But I'm not inspired by their work because they haven't exhibited patience in terms of actually becoming a photographer and thinking about what that means. In terms of injecting themselves in their work” ---

Image Salon is a Montreal-based photography & retouching studio. Your hight touch creative partner. Outsource without compromise.

Imagesalon.com Music and Sound Production by Philip Creamer

Nov 05, 202042:16
#24 Kim Hildebrand : Slow down. Shoot Film.

#24 Kim Hildebrand : Slow down. Shoot Film.

Kim Hildebran is a Seattle family and Newborn photographer who shoots primarily with film. This conversation was recorded in March 2020 during the Click | Away photography conference.

 

 

Moments to listen for:

 

What is most true to you will make your business stronger - 13:26 

If you hone in on what you really, really love, and what you would really like to do and what is most true to you, that it makes your business stronger. I think a lot of photographers get really scared that they're going to lose a bunch of business if they get into a really specific niche, but it's actually the opposite, ironically. And it's scary, it is going to be scary.

 

Step away from the comparison game - 15:30

Definitely still working on it. And I have stepped away a bit from the comparison game, I think has helped me. Because I was it is about community over competition, but I think it is triggering for everybody to constantly be comparing their work with other people's. 

 

Shoot Film. Slow Down - 21:08 

I think just as people are looking for more face to face connection because we've been all about the technology, people are also looking towards slowing down. Getting out of this manic craziness of overshooting and everything else. And you know, maybe there's more burnout involved. But on the flip side, like there's this new film shop close to my house, and they've only been open a year and they already had to expand their they doubled their space. And every single time I go in there, there's a ton of this a whole younger generation Gen X is in there buying up all kinds of films. So it's not just my generation in the business right now. It's, it's like happening all over. And I attribute it to people wanting to you know, it's just like when vinyl started coming back, right? They're looking for something that is creative in a different sense. And something that helps them slow down and think about things a little bit differently.

 

---

Image Salon is a Montreal-based photography & retouching studio. Your high touch creative partner. Outsource without compromise. imagesalon.com

Music and Sound Production by Philip Creamer

Oct 29, 202031:18
#23 Chanel G. : Where do you want to go?

#23 Chanel G. : Where do you want to go?

Chanel is an Atlanta based photograph and UX Designer who encourages other artists to pursue their own creative path. This conversation was recorded in March 2020 during the Click | Away photography conference. Moments to listen for:

 

You need to recharge just like everything in life - 7:27 "Some people think you have to go go go,  but even the battery in your camera has to recharge. If your battery and your camera have to recharge, why do you think that you don't? You need to recharge just like everything in life. Everything goes through seasons. And I feel like we have to get more okay with saying this is the season of rest. This is the season where I need to sit back. This is a season for me to go. (...)  There are seasons and you just need to be okay with what season you're at and embrace it as much as possible."

 

Establish a morning routine - 9:57 "During that time, something that really helped me was establishing a morning routine (...)  I would wake up, I would make a cup of tea. I would stretch with this one song that really put me in a good space. I would read a Bible verse, I would journal I would write a positive affirmation, and then I would start my morning. It brought me so much peace during that time when things were so crazy."

 

You can do it bare bones - 21:40 "I don't want to shame anybody that has a lot of gear, because there's nothing wrong with that. It's just you don't need that to get started. Are there situations where you need more than a 50 mm? Of course.  I'm not gonna be at a concert with my 50, or a sports event (...) obviously but to get started and to learn the basics, I really feel like you can do that with the bare bones. And then as you get more specialized you might need more stuff." ---

Image Salon is a Montreal-based photography & retouching studio. Your hight touch creative partner. Outsource without compromise.

imagesalon.com

 Music and Sound Production by Philip Creamer

Oct 15, 202035:20
#22 James Broadbent : Making better things

#22 James Broadbent : Making better things

James Broadbent is the CEO and co-founder of Narrative, as well as one half of the photography duo Chasewild. This conversation was recorded in June 2020 as Narrative was prepping to launch Narrative Select. Moments to listen for:

You only book what you show - 8:59 “I mean, you've probably heard this before, but photographers will often say you only book what you show. So if you put yourself inside the head of a client who's reaching out to book photographer, the client isn't really objectively looking at your work and thinking how good of a photographer are you. They're really just looking at the photos and asking themselves,  Do I want my wedding, do I want my photoshoot to look like this? 

Which makes the content inside your images just as important as the photographic quality of what you've captured. 

So booking the kind of client that you want early on can be challenging because if you want couples who, like for us, were super adventurous, then you have to work out how to get that into portfolio without having any of that in there.”

 When you're always trying something you're always failing at something - 26:35 " I'm the kind of person who's always trying something. And when you're always trying something you're always failing at something. I think, a lot of people might try once or twice, with a new idea and then they fail and they feel quite rejected or demotivated."

If I can spend less time at the computer doing my post-process work, then I can spend more time making sure that I get more bookings - 36:50 "I think I sort of realized that, if I can spend less time at the computer doing my post-process work, that'd be blogging or selecting my images or whatever, then I can spend more time making sure that I get more bookings, or shooting more, or just doing other stuff that I want to be doing." --- Image Salon is a Montreal-based photography & retouching studio. Your hight touch creative partner. Outsource without compromise. imagesalon.com Music and Sound Production by Philip Creamer

Oct 07, 202001:01:11
#21 Dave Moss: True potential

#21 Dave Moss: True potential

Dave Moss is a business coach for creatives. This conversation was recorded on February 2020 at WPPI. Moments to listen for:

It's a practice to live in an emotionally available sort of way.  - 18:27 So easy to be like, it's, it's a practice to live in an emotionally available sort of way. Yeah, but also not just like, take on everybody shit all the time. Like, it's a very, very fine line, because a lot of people who are very emotional, you know, become very empathetic, and then they take on everybody else's crap. And it can become overwhelming.

 

 

The struggles are similar. The causes are what are different - 22:50 There are definitely similar struggles. And I mean, I think it's pretty obvious to say things like, you know, low self-worth, or lack of confidence, or imposter syndrome, like, those are things a lot of creative people struggle with. And so I see those come up. But often the causes are, what are different. 

 

 

Are you getting on the wrong bus - 34:34 Take a random Tuesday from five years from now, if everything were to go right in your life, and you were to have everything that you absolutely want. What does that Tuesday look like? From the moment you wake up until the moment you go to bed. Write as much detail as possible what art is on the walls. What do you eat for breakfast? Who do you see that day? How much do you work everything else like that, because it gives you a place to aim. You can then ask yourself, is it moving me closer or further away from that? Am I getting on the wrong bus, essentially. ---

Image Salon is a Montreal-based photography & retouching studio. Your hight touch creative partner. Outsource without compromise.

imagesalon.com

 Music and Sound Production by Philip Creamer

Oct 07, 202043:09
#20 Bre Thurston: Achieving lofty goals

#20 Bre Thurston: Achieving lofty goals

Bre Thurston is an award-winning photographer focused on capturing love stories.

http://www.brethurston.com

Moments to listen for:

Imposter Syndrome Doesn't Go Away - 14:45 I got to the point where I was making more money than I'd ever made working for someone else. And that was kind of like, wow, I don't know if I could ever go back. But still, I have imposter syndrome. [...] Just feeling like even with all these years and you know hitting financial goals and speaking engagements, having stuff published on People Magazine it still never feels quite good enough [...] I think a lot of people struggle with that. 

Scare Away The Nonright Clients - 31:25 I do little subtle things on the front page of my website. I have a grid of some of my favourite photos. It's my little gallery. I have dogs everywhere like dogs for days, dogs jumping on brides dogs licking people's faces. I try to have people of all colours, sexual orientations, different religious aspects. Really making sure that it's untraditional. [...] I do that because those are the people I want to attract. Those are my people, the people that are kind of like me kind of like my friends. Someone who would be offended by that is not my ideal client. So I'm gonna just put it in their face. So they would never even think to hire me. Right out of the gate [...] it scares away the nonright clients and it makes the right clients more attracted to me.

You don't need to go into business. - 40:14 People will go and create this epic work, and then they'll burn out two years later, because they love photography, but they don't love the business. [...] You don't have to make this a career. You can be an awesome photographer and still do meaningful stuff without making money for it.

---

Image Salon is a Montreal-based photography & retouching studio. Your hight touch creative partner. Outsource without compromise.

imagesalon.com

 

Music and Sound Production by Philip Creamer

Sep 09, 202045:22
#19 Amina Mohamed: Love and passion to make things better

#19 Amina Mohamed: Love and passion to make things better

Amina Mohamed is a photographer as well as the founder of Triple F Photo Tours and Cameras For Girls.

 

Triple F Photo Tours is a photo-tour company that showcases the beauty of Uganda while supporting Cameras For Girls - an organization that supplies woman studying journalism in Uganda with cameras and the knowledge on how to use them so that they can use photography as a tool to tell the stories that matter to them.

 

www.triplefphototours.ca

 

Moments to listen for:

 

Connect as a human - 19:42

Before I pick up my camera, I will always make eye contact and always ask for permission. I might not know the language because there are 54 different languages and 54 different tribes. I rely on my people in Uganda to ask for me 'can she take your picture.' and if it's a no, it's a no. Then I graciously thank them and walk away, right? More often than not they'll say 'yes, absolutely.' Because it's how you approach it, and how you have respect for them. Because life in our eyes is very different than in theirs. So I think that goes not just for Uganda, but anywhere you travel. It's that having respect for what you do as a photographer, versus how you portray them in the light they want to be portrayed.

 

Create a goal sheet - 41:46 

I just keep on looking at my goal sheet and the things that I outline and saying, Okay, this is where I want to be. I kind of visualize [...] what do I want it to look like? What are the steps that I'm going to have to do to get that visualization to come true? 

 

When you hit the wall, back off - 55:40

When you hit that back off, just leave it for a little while. Don't keep pushing down the door, because the more you push, the more resistance you're going to have. I think that's with anything. When I give it the space that it needs, it helps me to reset inside, reset my brain, reset my thoughts reset my momentum, and then when I go back at it, it's almost like the door was opened because I can see a different way through.

 

This podcast is brought to you by The Image Salon, a Montreal-based photography & retouching studio. Your hight touch creative partner. Outsource without compromise.

imagesalon.com

Music and Sound Production by Philip Creamer

 

 

 

Sep 03, 202056:28
#18 Sandra Coan: Craft  your own light

#18 Sandra Coan: Craft your own light

Sandra Coan is Seattle's premier maternity, newborn and family photographer. This conversation was recorded in February 2020 at WPPI just before the release of Sandra's new book - Crafting The Natural Light Look

 

www.sandracoaneducation.com

 

Moments to listen for:

 

Learn the tools. Become consistent - 4:00 It's very controlled. And because of that, it's super consistent. What that does for you when you can get that kind of consistency in your work is that those tools, those things that one would think of as technical, They just become a non-issue. They're just there. 

 

Does that make sense? So you get it working, you know how it works, it's all set. I don't have to change it or think about it. And so then I just go back to that place [...] where it's just about me connecting with my client and just having that moment. So it's not something I think about all the time. I've learned the tools and I've learned them well enough that they become second nature.

 

Know how to handle less than ideal conditions  - 13:34 I won an award for one of my film photos. And one of my first film photos got me my first magazine cover, you know, I was having a lot of success in perfect situations with that medium. But then when it wasn't perfect situations, it all just went to hell in a handbasket. I had this one client come in with a newborn baby in November, and it was just rainy and dark in those like Northwest days where the streetlights never turned off, and I'm trying to shoot portrait 400 which is an ISO 400 film and I was like, 'Oh, I'll just push it' which was dumb because that didn't work.  

 

So the film came back like super underexposed. The baby is orange, it was all grainy, it was awful. I then had to call that parent and be like, 'I just totally ruined your newborn session. And I'm sorry.' I'll never forget that shoot because that was the moment I was like, 'This is stupid. If you're going to continue doing this, if you're going to call yourself a professional photographer, if you're going to take money from people, you need to get serious and you need to just get over yourself and learn how to do it'. 

 

What's amazing about that is, 2011 I spent a lot of time teaching myself how to create the kind of light I wanted to shoot with strobes, and then 2012 was my first six-figure year and that's not an accident."

 

If you're feeling burnt-out shoot a roll of film - 23:48 It really such a fun medium. I feel like it's the cure for burnout. Whenever I talk to photographers, that are like, 'I'm so burnt out. I never want to pick up my camera again.' I'm like, dude, shoot a roll of film because it's fun, like, have fun.  I get that all the time. I like [film], I like not seeing my photos. Because, I don't know if you do this, but when I was shooting digitally, I would do the shoot, and then [when the client left], I would immediately put them on the computer and then immediately pick it apart.[...] There was no break. And now I' shoot the film. And then I don't look at it for two weeks because it's at the lab and then it comes in and then it's like, oh my god I love these pictures."

 

---

This podcast is brought to you by The Image Salon, a Montreal-based photography & retouching studio. Your hight touch creative partner. Outsource without compromise. imagesalon.com

 

Music and Sound Production by Philip Creamer

Aug 20, 202038:02
#17 Chloe Ramirez: Be true to yourself

#17 Chloe Ramirez: Be true to yourself

Chloe Ramirez is a lifestyle photographer who photographs real human connection. I had the chance to chat with Chloe at WPPI 2020 the day before she spoke on the Nikon stage. http://www.chloeramirezphoto.com

Moments to listen for:

Be unapologetically yourself - 6:11 It can be really scary when you start losing clients because you will once you find like your niche, you're going to lose clients. But just know that the more [...] you're just unapologetically yourself, [the more] you're going to attract people who are like-minded and want you to shoot exactly what you're shooting.

Get out of your head and create - 19:21  I think a lot of just people can get really in their head, about everything being perfect and not wanting to ask these models or people to come if they're not fully prepared, and then you just sit at home and you never create work. I mean, maybe you don't create your favourite work ever. But it's better than sitting on the couch and not doing it, you know? Feel out the vibe of your couples - 35:49 You have to feel out the vibe of each couple. I send a questionnaire out, and all the questions are designed to put them in a loving, nostalgic mode so that they're in a really good mindset for the shoot when they come in, Once you write down all the details for that, you can kind of get clues on who they are and how they love. ---

This podcast is brought to you by The Image Salon, a Montreal-based photography & retouching studio. Your high touch creative partner. Outsource without compromise. imagesalon.com

 

Music and Sound Production by Philip Creamer

 

Aug 20, 202041:02
#15 Stacey Krolow: Pause, reflect and learn

#15 Stacey Krolow: Pause, reflect and learn

Stacey Krolow is Kamloops based photographer and the CEO and Founder of Pepper - Your Badass Business BFF Inc. Pepper will be hosting Conference + Chill, a worldwide virtual photo gathering, from July 29th - 31st 

Moments to listen for:

Perception is reality - 4:58 

"I think I would probably say, believing in yourself and believing in the work that you're doing and asking for what you deserve. And owning, owning that, and being confident in that. And perception is reality. so if people perceive you as confident, successful, you know what you're doing, you do good work. They're going to believe that is the truth and it is, but you can be a great photographer, amazing work, but you come across as maybe You're not confident, are you professional seems kind of wishy-washy on this, I'm going to perceive him as not as good. For so then that is the truth."

 

Go home and cry like a winner - 9:01

"My team is like go home and cry like a winner but they mean it in a good way. Cry like a winner because you're going to feel these things you're going to make mistakes you're going to have those doubts and it's okay you're allowed to feel those things and you are human like I'm not a robot, but that's also a part of the growth right? [...] There's going to be times where you feel like you're not showing up maybe as you want, but I think in just the very act of trying to show up as the person fully that you want to be you are doing it. You're getting there."

 

Know why you shoot - 16:23 

"I think knowing why you shoot in the first place. Why do you love photography in the first place? Do you and really understanding why you shoot the way you shoot?"

 

 

 Pretty good is not okay - 41:41

"Pretty good is not okay. Really fully understanding what white privilege is and how I have it and how I was just like a happy go lucky person I'd love everyone head in the sand, I was that 100% I'm learning so much and I was rocked, I was rocked. But I am feeling very excited. And I'm feeling very grateful to be even living through this in 2020. Because I totally believe in all the positive changes that are going to come from this. I'm so excited to be a part of that. And like what can I do to be a part of that? And to feel like, 'Hey, you actually can do something about it.' You can be a part of the solution, not just the problem because realizing you're part of the problem is the first step." https://meetpepper.ca/

 

 

Jul 22, 202001:01:11
#14 Megan Allen: At some point you have to jump

#14 Megan Allen: At some point you have to jump

Megan is not your typical wedding photographer. Her work captures the raw, unscripted emotions of a wedding day. This conversation was recorded in January 2020 at Imaging USA.

Moments to listen for:

Going Viral Isn't the end-all to be all - 14:17 "You think you're gonna get all this notoriety because you're viral. At first, it's super cool. It's fun for a minute, but by the end of it, all I wanted was to go and take really cool photos for my couples. It doesn't matter. If you go viral or not, [what matters] is your content consistently good? Because you can take one really cool photo that pops off, but what are you doing the rest of the time?"

 

Set the client up for your vibe - 20:01  "I'm always wanting to meet [the clients] somewhere, we can just hang out because I'm very much a low key person, and I want them to know that. So if you're a type-A person, and you need a lot of hand-holding, I'm probably not the photographer for you. But I know a lot of amazing photographers who are, So I'm going to refer them to that. So right off the bat, I'm definitely setting them up in a low key situation where they're going to be able to know my vibe, and I'm going to bring a handful of albums, I'm going to bring some print products and we're just sitting there and chill and have a beer and just talk." 

 

At some point, you have to jump - 32:21 "At some point, you have to jump out of the plane and you have to go for it. You have to trust that chute gonna pull, and it's amazing when it does. [...] I knew I had a parachute. I knew it was gonna come out. I knew everything was gonna be fine. But he pops open that door and I looked down and he's like, time to jump. I'm like, No, nevermind. No, I'm fine. That's what I see people doing so often in the industry is like they have these opportunities if they'll just go after them. But they're like, Nah, I'll just wait. "

https://www.choosestudio22.com 

 

Jul 15, 202034:20
#13 Elena S Blair: Create before you consume

#13 Elena S Blair: Create before you consume

Elena is an award-winning Lifestyle Family & Newborn photographer based in Seattle, who has also built up a robust education community. This conversation was recorded February 2020 at WPPI.

Moments to listen for:

BALANCE IS A UNICORN - 7:39

"I think balance is a unicorn. I don't think it exists. I used to desperately seek it. I felt like I wanted to be 100% a good mom. 100% a good business person. 100% a good creative, 100% a good friend; and that's not possible. A really good friend of mine told me once, and he's a very talented entrepreneur, he said, Elena, it's not about balance, it's about harmony. you need to just be all in with what you're doing. When you're working, feel good about it and do it well, and love what you're doing. And then when you go to your kids, your cup is full, and you can give it to them and you're gonna then be all in with them and be a great mom and feel good about it. (...) Don't look for balance, just know that if you're happy in all areas, you're going to feel harmony."

 

GET OUT OF THAT STARVING ARTIST'S MENTALITY - 15:14

"Get out of that starving artist's mentality. We can all be successful. You've gotta let that go."

 

CREATE BEFORE YOU CONSUME - 28:56

"A rule I have when I'm feeling really disconnected from my work or from life, which you know, happens to us all. When I'm feeling out of alignment, my mantra is create before you consume."

 

 

Jul 15, 202041:10
#12 Olivia Vale: Reigniting Creativity

#12 Olivia Vale: Reigniting Creativity

Jul 14, 202046:01
#10 Kesha Lambert: Be A Litte More Daring

#10 Kesha Lambert: Be A Litte More Daring

This conversation was recorded in February 2020 at WPPI

Kesha Lambert is a wedding and portrait photographer based in New York. On May 5th at 6 pm EST Kesha will be speaking at The Photo Cookout Virtual Summit. Exploring what goes behind the making of a magical portrait.

The Photo Cookout Virtual Summit runs from May 4th - 8th https://tomayiacolvinedu.kartra.com/page/virtualsummit

May 04, 202029:28
#8 Ashley Jones: Love Not Lost
Apr 29, 202033:17
#6 Hannah Farajpanahi: Burnout and Recovery
Apr 15, 202040:20
#5 Daniel Esteban: The passion and fun of photography
Apr 08, 202040:50
#4 Tenille K Campbell: The influence of community and culture
Apr 02, 202042:26
#3 Ryan Christopher Jones: The long-haul process of building a career in photography

#3 Ryan Christopher Jones: The long-haul process of building a career in photography

This conversation was recorded in January 2020 at the Friends Of Fearless Conference in Austin Texas. Ryan Christopher Jones is a photojournalist and contributor to The New York Times. Let us know your thoughts and takeaways from this episode email bryce@imagesalon.com

Mar 18, 202041:35
#2 Interview with Sara Monika
Mar 16, 202041:55
#1 Sara Monika with her former editor Maeve

#1 Sara Monika with her former editor Maeve

On March 18th Image Salon will be launching a podcast. Here's a little taste of things to come.

Back in January Sara Monika came to the Image Salon studio in Montréal to meet her former editor Maeve. Sara and Maeve sat down to discuss the in and outs of outsourcing. Sharing their insights, tips, and experience from both the perspective of photographer and editor.

Mar 10, 202045:03