Skip to main content


By Stacey Gordon & Lisa Gates
Welcome to the Inclusionomics® Podcast, a place for fresh, real talk about our lived experiences with the challenges of being seen, heard, and included.

Hosted by diversity and inclusion strategist Stacey Gordon, and leadership and storytelling coach Lisa Gates, Inclusionomics® dives into hot button issues with an eye for powering up people on the edge: of action, of complicity, of giving up. We offer you validation, resources and fuel to fiercely advocate for inclusion at work, school, and in your community.
Where to listen
Apple Podcasts Logo

Apple Podcasts

Google Podcasts Logo

Google Podcasts

Overcast Logo


Pocket Casts Logo

Pocket Casts

RadioPublic Logo


Spotify Logo


Unapologetically Naive
Becky and Karen are in the news a lot these days, but you might be wondering, who are they? Am I a Becky or am I a Karen? And why does it matter? Can’t I just be me with my opinions, stands, commitments, and beliefs? Good questions. Here’s the deal. We’ve all had moments of frustration when we wished someone could just see or do things OUR WAY and life would be oh so much better if everyone would just fall in line. But Beckys and Karens occupy only the white spectrum on the color wheel of life. Is there a third way? In this episode, you’ll learn how to open yourself to new points of view and why you need awareness and feedback for your personal growth. You’ll also learn the difference between a Becky and a Karen (it matters).
June 16, 2020
Unapologetically Good Stuff
Daily news intake can make you feel like you’re drowning in a sea of negativity. Although it can be hard to look at what’s going on in the world with a “glass half full” mindset, there's always GOOD happening. All over the globe, people are rising to the occasion and stepping up to uplift one another. Listen to this episode to get an infusion of selfless, good news that will leave your heart feeling full.
June 02, 2020
Unapologetically Idle
Social pressure keeps so many of us busy, but now it’s more important than ever to take time to do NOTHING. Whether you’re quarantined alone or with others, carving out time to do nothing will make you more healthy, connected, creative, and well-rested. In this episode, you will discover why being idle is so important, how to intentionally do nothing, and fun, unapologetically idle activities.
May 12, 2020
Unapologetic Career Change
As we continue to navigate the coronavirus and its havoc on employment, changing careers isn't a priority for most. But now might not be as bad a time as it seems! Often, adversity can present new opportunities to gain clarity on our lives and careers. Is right now the time to examine if you truly feel fulfilled in your career? In this episode, you'll discover how to figure out exactly what it is you want to do, and how to set yourself up for a successful career transition during COVID-19 and beyond.
April 28, 2020
Unapologetic Self Care
With daily news updates on COVID-19 and more people staying indoors to practice social distancing, self-care is more important than ever. Whether you’re enjoying the time at home or feeling anxious, incorporating self-care will set you up for a healthy and less stressed time indoors. In this episode, you’ll learn how to define self-care for yourself, get some pandemic coping techniques, and discover fun, out-of-the-box self-care tips for this challenging time.
April 14, 2020
Unapologetically Opinionated
We’re getting into the brain science behind our beliefs and opinions, and why they’re so hard to change. Most of us are unapologetically opinionated, yet beliefs and opinions are fallible! In this episode, you’ll discover what happens when our beliefs and opinions are threatened, why it feels uncomfortable, and how we can be better communicators and leaders who actively include diverse viewpoints.
March 31, 2020
Unapologetically Ambitious
Are you ambitious? Or does that word make you squirm? And if you want to own your ambition to advance your career, how can you do that while bringing your boss, boss’s boss, and coworkers along? In this episode, Stacey and Lisa offer strategic tips and resources so you can update your self-talk, and build your skills and confidence you need to control your career and destiny.
March 10, 2020
Unapologetically Speaking
How important is “good” speech to your advancement and promotion at work? Or just navigating everyday life? And what are the hidden rules about what’s good? In this episode, Unapologetically Speaking, we’re taking a look at how the way we speak influences how we are perceived by others. And who defined Standard American English in the first place? We'll answer these questions and more.
March 02, 2020
Unapologetically Privileged
What is privilege? Do you have privilege? Various definitions tell us that privilege is unearned access to resources but it’s the word “unearned” that puts people on edge and makes them defensive. So in this episode, we’re going to talk about privilege, what it is, what it means to different people and why it’s ok to be unapologetic about the privilege you have.
February 11, 2020
Unapologetically Me
In this episode we explore what unapologetic means on a personal level. Because change starts on the inside. Internally. Right where you are. How do you be you, unapologetically, in all the places and spaces you show up?  How and where do you bring your whole self to the party, and where do you hold back? What does it mean to be unapologetically you?
January 28, 2020
You Shoulda Asked
Everything is negotiable. Even if you’ve been told it isn’t or think it isn’t, or is it? In this episode we bust a few myths about who asks, why women don’t ask and how to ask, or maybe demand, what we want.
September 17, 2019
You Shoulda Been a Better Parent
Maya Angelou said, “Do the best you can until you know better. Then when you know better, do better.” But what is better and how do you define better? We have unreal expectations about what parenting should be and what a working parent should look like and as we try to build more inclusive workplaces sometimes we look at a person and wonder, “Who raised you?” This podcast topic isn’t about shaming or blaming, we're simply voicing some of the things we think about as we try to parent in this crazy world.
September 04, 2019
You Coulda Been Woke
What prompted us to start this dialogue? As usual, an off-hand comment, a casual remark, or an event that causes one of us to say, "are you kidding me??" What does it mean to be woke? What’s the definition? How woke do you have to be? You can't be woke because you have a black friend and you aren't woke just because you're protesting. If you had an opportunity to be woke and missed it, listen it and you might get a new opportunity. 
August 13, 2019
You Shoulda Taken a Sick Day
How many days do you find yourself at work - tired, overworked and feeling burned out?  There is nothing we as the co-hosts love more than a good mental health day, but in a culture where some people are applauded for working long days with no vacation in sight, how do you change this culture so that it benefits you and your well being?  Stop working yourself to death, stop working your employees to death and cut yourself some slack. Your career will thank you!
July 30, 2019
You Shoulda Broke the Rules
 There are so many rules to live by… be strong, but don’t be bossy; speak up, but not too loudly . . .  We know you’re tired of living by rules made by someone else and so are we. Join us as we discuss how to break the rules and stay employed! 
July 16, 2019
You Shoulda Said No
Do you have a hard time saying no? Do you find yourself saying, "I shoulda said no"? Or asking yourself why you said yes to THAT? You're not alone. We've all been there - some of us are there - stuck in an unending cycle of yes. But we're going to help you break the cycle while fulfilling our need to be heard, seen and included, which won’t happen unless we strategically say no.
July 03, 2019
You Shoulda Fixed Your Hair
It's hard enough dealing with all the inequities in the workplace, but when it comes to the written and unwritten rules around hair, things get a little twisted. In this episode hosts Stacey,  Thelá  and Lisa talk about all the ways "You Shoulda Fixed Your Hair"  to avoid racial and economic bias, as well as California's new C.R.O.W.N. Act banning dress codes that forbid braids, twists  and other natural hair styles. 
June 18, 2019
You Shoulda Hired a Woman
in this episode we're tackling gender bias in hiring and things we can do to make our own changes. But we know that if we have the tools and the awareness, we can do better. We can come together to do our part to make incremental changes. Let's move the needle! Why should you hire a woman? What are the legal reasons? By the end of this podcast, you'll have a fabulous tool to make sure you get paid what you're worth and you'll be better equipped to be an ally to other women just like you.
June 04, 2019
You Shoulda Stayed Calm
Tired of being cast as angry? Tired of being told to calm down when you have every right to be angry?  In this episode, we talk about anger as a symptom of something underlying that needs to be addressed.  When women are more likely than men to suppress anger at work and they are more likely than men to be penalized for showing anger we have to do something to change this biased way of thinking.
May 21, 2019
Co-Host Introduction - Lisa Gates
As we go through this season with a theme of Shoulda, Woulda, Coulda, we thought it would be good to introduce the hosts to you and we hope you'll get to know us more as we travel along this journey together. 
May 07, 2019
Co-Host Introduction - Stacey Gordon
As we go through this season with a theme of Shoulda, Woulda, Coulda, we thought it would be good to introduce the hosts to you and we hope you'll get to know us more as we travel along this journey together.
May 07, 2019
Co-Host Introduction - Thelá Thatch
As we go through this season with a theme of Shoulda, Woulda, Coulda, we thought it would be good to introduce the hosts to you and we hope you'll get to know us more as we travel along this journey together.
May 07, 2019
Shoulda, Woulda, Coulda . . . and other noise
How many times a day do you find yourself saying “I shoulda…” You can fill in the blank with just about anything but have you ever stopped to ask yourself if that shoulda is something you want to do? And who says you shoulda? Your mom, your boss, your partner? Let’s stop all that noise. Join three experts in diversity, inclusion, HR and negotiation - Stacey Gordon, Thelá Thatch and Lisa Gates. Meet Stacey: Stacey A. Gordon is an innovative human capital strategist whose mission is to reduce bias in global talent acquisition and management. To that end, Stacey offers diversity, inclusion and career related online courses which have been viewed more than 1 million times. She was recognized by Pepperdine University as a Top 40 Over 40 Leader, was a finalist for Los Angeles Business Journal’s Women Helping Women Award and was recognized by Forbes as a Top 3 Business Leader Who Spoke Out About Diversity & Inclusion. In her capacity as a highly-rated coach, she is a member of Forbes Coaching Council and has coached D&I practitioners at The Forum on Workplace Inclusion.  Meet Lisa: In my practice, I operate on the radical idea that women do not need to twist themselves into pretzels to conform to the "shoulds."  As a certified coach (CTI) focusing on career development, I help you grab hold of your strengths and accomplishments, write and tell your story, amplify your voice, and grow your influence so so you can take your place at the table and get the respect, recognition, role, and salary you deserve.   Meet Thelá: Founder & CEO of a full-service HR consulting service providing HR services to small businesses and non-profit organizations that include but are not limited to; organizational development, talent management, diversity & inclusion strategies, employee relations, document & policy reviews, HR audits, progressive discipline strategies, and outplacement services. 
April 23, 2019