Infectious Historians

Neeraja Sankaran (National Centre for Biological Sciences-TIFR) and Stephen Weldon (University of Oklahoma) join the Infectious Historians to discuss a recent special journal issue they edited. The issue includes many studies about histories of disease, pandemics and their impact around the world and across time, and reflections on how people have studies these events in the past. Neeraja and Stephen begin by telling the story of how they decided to put out the special issue, and reflect on some of their early choices and how those determined the shape of the final outcome. They discuss the question of how to measure the impact of this issue, and share how the editing work has influenced their own thinking on these issues. The conversation then moves on to discuss teaching courses on pandemics, before wrapping up with another reflection, this time on the impacts of Covid on how people write about disease. 

Arafaat Valiani (University of Oregon) has a conversation with the Infectious Historians about genomic and genetic research with indigenous communities. Arafaat goes over what is genomic research, then describes how tests work and the bioethical debate surrounding them. He describes some of the different approaches among biomedical researchers that approach marginalized communities. The conversation moves on to discuss some of the practicalities of working with and within these communities, followed by a reflection about whether other communities should adopt similar practices as well. The interview finishes with a discussion of the role of AI within genomic research.

Keith Pluymers (Illinois State University) comes on the show to talk about his work on late 18th century Philadelphia in the context of yellow fever and climate. After the introductory remarks and the personal updates, Keith begins with a discussion of the Anthropocene and its broader relevance as well as its connection to his field of studies. He continues to discuss climate and disease in the New World, as well as in the context of how science and empirical measurements were done in the past. Keith provides several examples that demonstrate how 18th century people believed they could exert some influence over the weather, atmosphere or even climate. This then ties into the yellow fever discussion, which he contextualizes within the broader discourse in Philadelphia but also broader trans-Atlantic discourse.

Michelle Smirnova (University of Missouri-Kansas City) returns to the podcast to discuss her new book on drugs and prison in the United States, The Prescription to Prison Pipeline.The interview begins with a discussion of medicalization, and then generally follows the title of her book. The first part focuses on prescription drugs, touching also on subjects such as biomedicalization. The opioid epidemic and the so-called War on Drugs are linked to imprisonment in the United States. Finally, the pipline section reflects upon structural issues that link drugs to imprisonment. Michelle also discusses some of the ethical concerns in working with incarcerated individuals.

Ana Duggan (McMaster) and Tim Newfield (Georgetown) join the Infectious Historians to discuss smallpox. The conversation begins as always with a survey of what smallpox actually is as well as its broad history. After Ana and Tim share the reasons they chose to research smallpox, they move on to speak about recent research about historical smallpox, particularly through the study of the virus’ ancient DNA samples. Ana and Tim also discuss the differences which make the study of smallpox more difficult compared to other pathogens, and reflect upon where the field might be heading, particularly in the context of the Antonine Plague.

Karen Cook (University of Hartford) joins the Infectious Historians to discuss some of her work on medieval music. Karen begins with an overview of medieval music - its purposes, context, instruments and the people who made it. She then moves on to speak about music related to epidemics - which is generally identified through its lyrics - with some analogies to Covid. The conversation then expands to include reception and medievalism, singling out a few video games that have used medieval or medieval-like music, as well as establishing new genres where contemporary pop music receives a “medieval” cover. 

Visit our website for links to the many music pieces Karen mentioned!

John Eicher (Penn State Altoona) joins the Infectious Historians to discuss his project on the 1918-1919 Influenza Pandemic that examines the pandemic from a translocal and comparative perspective. John begins by describing the broad contours of the pandemic and reflects upon the different approaches scholars have adopted in telling the story of the pandemic so far. John’s own project builds upon a digitized collection of over a thousand letters describing memories and stories from the influenza pandemic, offering him a unique understanding of what the pandemic did in a variety of locales. Throughout the interview John shares some of the stories that appear in the letters, and jumps between trying to think about the pandemic as a whole and focusing on the individual experience that the sources provide. Among the topics that are discussed in the interview are the features that appear (e.g. war) or do not appear (e.g. blame) in the letters, and attempts to compare different understandings of the pandemic - for example in the United States and in Europe. Near the end the conversation moves to a discussion of Rosenberg’s understanding of an epidemic as well as a comparison to Covid. 

Tylor Brand (Trinity College Dublin) comes on the podcast to talk about his recent book, Famine Worlds: Life at the Edge of Suffering in Lebanon’s Great War. After the standard opening and welcome, the discussion begins with a survey of the Ottoman Middle East in the early 20th century, which quickly moves to examine the case of Lebanon during World War I. Tylor explains the reasons for the famine, then moves on to distinguish between different war and famine experiences within Lebanon, covering its effects on different groups during the war. Tylor also discusses the sources he used for the project, as well as the contemporaneous diseases that affected the country.

Maurits Meerwijk (Leiden University) joins the Infectious Historians to discuss his book on the effects of the third plague pandemic in Java in the first half of the 20th century. The conversation begins with a survey of Java, its location and politics as under Dutch colonialism. Plague reached Java relatively late during the pandemic (1910/1), but resulted in a large number of deaths. The interview focuses in particular on a large-scale program of home improvement that the Dutch initiated as a response to the plague - a project that lasted 30 years and resulted in the improvement of some 1.6 million local houses. The end of the conversation reflects upon Java as a third pandemic case study and considers the (lack of) historical memory of this episode.  

Alexandre White (Johns Hopkins University) joins Merle and Lee to discuss his recent book on Epidemic Orientalism. Alexandre begins by defining epidemic orientalism, focusing on why particular diseases - cholera, plague and yellow fever - (but not others) have been regulated. The conversation continues to examine the role of the West in placing these diseases and the East within the same frame, and Alexandre provides historical background to the beginnings of what we understand today as global public health - international sanitary conferences in the mid-19th century which served health purposes but were also inherently political and colonial in nature. In addition, Alexandre surveys the roles and activities of the WHO as the contemporary manifestation, also through the role it played in the recent Covid pandemic.

Kristina Sessa (Ohio State University) comes on the podcast to discuss her work on late antique historical disasters. After a brief overview of late antiquity and its importance in global history, Tina discusses her categorization of disasters and how it relates to broader disaster studies. The conversation zooms out to consider broader environmental history and environmental determinism before zooming back in to reflect upon the meaning of disaster for modern observers-historians compared to contemporaries who experienced the disaster at the time. Tina also discusses the sources she uses in her research, the role of numbers in disaster reports, as well as how contemporaries conceived of disasters. 

Tom Ewing (Virginia Tech) joins the Infectious Historians to discuss his work on the Russian Flu, a late 19th century influenza pandemic that resonates with the early 20th century Spanish Flu. After setting the stage and touching upon the name of the pandemic as well as its reasoning and implications, the conversation moves to reflect upon the interest (or lack thereof) in the Russian Flu, followed by moving into the topic of mortality counts - covering both their attraction to observers and the difficulties in actually reaching reliable numbers. The next part of the conversation examines the comparison between the Russian and Spanish Flus as well as how the memory of the Russian Flu influenced expectations and behaviors during the Spanish Flu. This soon leads towards Covid within the broader context of earlier pandemics.

Joshua Teplitsky (University of Pennsylvania) comes on the podcast to discuss his work on plague and its effects on Jewish communities in early modern Europe and particularly during the 18th century. Joshua offers an overview of some of the rich sources he uses for his research, including both the sources for mortality at the time and sources that describe how local Jewish communities perceived and reacted to plague - ranging from rabbinic responsa to epic Yiddish poems. He then focuses on a single case study - the plague outbreak in Prague in 1713 to offer a more concrete interpretation. The conversation subsequently moves to a deeper discussion of the myth that Jews were somehow more immune or resistant to plague, based on Joshua’s research who explored both the evidence and the origins of the idea. Joshua further connects this myth to broader myths surrounding diseases.

Pablo Gomez (University of Wisconsin, Madison) comes on the podcast to talk about knowledge, science and health in the early modern Caribbean. The conversation begins with the basics and how the region does not fall into the tropes of modernity, then focuses on Pablo’s interest in how people of African descent navigated the area and period. Pablo speaks specifically about a group of Black ritual practitioners and covers some of the ways in which he learns about them in sources (mostly inquisitional records). The conversation continues to discuss topics such as the transmission of specialized knowledge, memory of earlier societies in the area and the partial presence of the Caribbean in standard narratives of epidemics and pandemics. A brief reflection on Covid wraps up the interview. 

Troels Arboll (University of Copenhagen) joins the show to discuss his work on disease and healing in ancient Mesopotamia. Troels first defines ancient Mesopotamia both temporally and spatially and points out some of the sources we have for the period and their issues. The conversation soon reaches infectious diseases and how they were perceived and recorded by the inhabitants of Ancient Mesopotamia. This sets the stage for an overview of the difficulties of terminology in the surviving primary sources as well as the uncertainties of retrospective diagnosis that forces ambiguous ancient terms into modern-day categories. Troels subsequently surveys how the inhabitants of ancient Mesopotamia responded to infectious diseases, and touches upon the questions of healing. Finally, the conversation moves to Covid and its effects on discussions in the field.

Mary Dunn (St. Louis University) discusses her recent book on disease, illness and religion in French Canada over the 17th and 18th centuries. Mary begins with some background on Canada in the period, then moves to discuss some of the main sources from the period and their authors - the Jesuits. The main part of the interview examines some of the illness narratives Mary found in the sources and some of the stories they told about healing. Mary also shares some of her thoughts of how disability studies can contribute to our thinking about the past, and about her personal connection with her sources based on her own life experiences.

Jeffrey Reznick (The National Library of Medicine) comes on the podcast to discuss his work as Chief of the History of Medicine Division at the National Library of Medicine and his research, particularly on the 1918 influenza pandemic. The conversation begins with a survey of the National Library of Medicine, and Jeffrey briefly outlines his normal work there before moving on to the Library’s multifaceted responses to Covid - including the preservation of information and ephemera. Jeffrey reflects on the connections between Covid and the 1918 influenza pandemic on multiple levels. The conversation includes multiple references to resources and tools that the Library of Medicine has been working on and making available to online users. Before wrapping up, the conversation touches upon some of the future directions for the Library of Medicine.

Elena Conis joins the Infectious Historians to discuss her recent book on the history of DDT and its use. The conversation begins with a brief overview of the early history of DDT up to and around its entry into mass production in the 1940s and 1950s. In parallel to the discussion of the commercial and industrial aspects of its use, Elena points out some of the cultural reasons why DDT was so popular. The next part of the conversation examines the changing attitude to DDT and its eventual decline, centered around Rachel Carson’s Silent Spring (1962) although earlier voices had similarly critiqued DDT and its massive use. The discussion covers the period until the 21st century, as DDT remains in use, albeit limited, today.

Alex Otieno (Arcadia University) joins Merle and Lee to discuss HIV-AIDS in Kenya. After a broad overview of the AIDS pandemic from the 1980s until today, including the issues of mortality and treatment, the conversation moves to Africa and Kenya. Alex discusses the early failure of Kenya to deal with the pandemic, and the rapid evolution of its response since the late 1990s, which has resulted in considerable success. Among the topics covered is the international aid that Kenya receives, the rise of circumcision among males in Kenya, and how the country lives with HIV-AIDS at the present, and both top-down and bottom-up responses to HIV. The conversation concludes with a discussion of the future.

Helen Rhee (Westmont College) joins the Infectious Historians to discuss her work on illness, pain and healthcare in early Christianity. The conversation begins with an overview of medicine in Greco-Roman antiquity, and transitions from there to survey health and illness in the Hebrew Bible before moving on to early Christian times. The topics covered include changes over time in the association between the divine and health (or disease), asceticism, pain, and the new idea of Christian health through hospitals in cities.

Paula Larsson (University of Oxford) comes on the new Infectious Historians episode to talk about her work on anti-vaccination movements. The conversation begins with an overview of vaccines before moving into vaccine hesitancy and anti-vaccination. Paula explores the similarities in anti-vaccination movements and their arguments over the past two centuries, while drawing parallels to famous recent cases such as the MMR vaccine and its false links to autism and the Covid vaccine. Near the end, Paula discusses her public engagement work, which she has pursued through multiple pathways.

Jim Downs (Gettysburg College) joins the Infectious Historians to talk about his recent book. The conversation begins with epidemiology and its origins, focusing on the 18th century military bureaucracy and the production of scientific knowledge in venues associated with slavery, prisons, the colonies and war. Jim follows the people who produced this knowledge - but emphasizes the voices of the marginalized groups who are an inherent part of this story. The last part of the interview is a discussion of Jim’s public-facing work and some of the issues that such work might encounter.

Sara Carr (Northeastern University) joins the Infectious Historians for a conversation about her work on redesigning urban space in response to a pandemic. The discussion begins with a survey of the major changes in urban landscapes in the US over the past two centuries. Sara presents the epidemics she covers - ranging from cholera to urban blight - and talks about the speed in which changes might be expected to occur. The differential impact of diseases among class and residency status comes up in several contexts, and Sara discusses what changes might happen in urban space as a result of the Covid pandemic.

Maria Spyrou (University of Tübingen) and Phil Slavin (University of Stirling) join Merle and Lee to discuss their recent Nature publication on the source of the Black Death. After quickly covering the basics of paleogenetics and the history of the Black Death(!), the conversation moves on to the article itself and highlights its importance while also offering a “behind-the-scenes” look at how the research was planned and conducted. In the later part of the episode, Maria and Phil reflect on their collaboration over the past several years as well as on interdisciplinarity, its challenges and its potential.

Anjuli Raza Kolb (University of Toronto) joins Merle and Lee to discuss “Epidemic Empire”, her recent book on the history behind the metaphor of the “terrorism epidemic”. The conversation covers the development of the idea of insurgent violence as an epidemic in the nineteenth century, touching on imperialism and colonialism, particularly from a British perspective. Anjuli traces the development of the metaphor chronologically, with several stops along the way, until Covid. Among others, Anjuli examines discourse about Muslims and infectious disease, and several transition points - such as the Haiti Revolution and the Algerian Independence Movement, as well as AIDS and 9/11.

Adam Izdebski (Max Planck Institute for the Science of Human History) joins the Infectious Historians to discuss his work at the frontier between pollen and disease, and in particular in light of his recent work analyzing pollen from the time of the Black Death. The conversation begins with an introduction to palynology (pollen analysis) and its limitations. Adam discusses fieldwork as well as a few examples for what pollen can offer us before turning to his research and what his large meta-analysis of pollen sites across Europe found about the Black Death. Adam also touches upon the potential of interdisciplinary work as well as his outreach initiatives, including his project of getting involved with policymaking.

Suman Seth [https://sts.cornell.edu/suman-seth]  joins Merle and Lee to talk about his work on medicine in the British colonies during the 18th century and how it changed as people learned about tropical diseases. Suman begins by providing background on how medicine was practiced in Britain and in the colonies, alongside how new generations learned about tropical diseases over time. He then discusses how people new to colonies were “seasoned” to acclimate them to tropical diseases along with differences in this impact on colonizers, soldiers, and the enslaved among others. At the end, Suman describes how these changes shaped the development of ideas of race and racial thinking.

Jennifer Hughes joins Merle and Lee to discuss her work on empire, society and church in 16th century Mexico. After Jennifer sets up the conversation with some background, the discussion focuses on the growth of the Catholic church in Mexico through the Spanish Empire against a backdrop of periodic epidemic disease, examining changes through both imperial and indigenous perspectives. The discussion covers themes such as the economic impact of disease, conversion to Christianity, and the indigenous response to cataclysmic epidemics. Jennifer also presents the range of attitudes and responses on the Spanish side.

Claas Kirchhelle (University College Dublin) and Samantha Vanderslott (Oxford University) talk to Merle and Lee about the development and history of public health laboratories and how they worked (or didn’t) during Covid. After first discussing what a public health lab is and how they work, they speak about when they were created in a few countries around the world and how they have developed historically. Claas and Sam note the role of public and private labs together and the key role of Swine Flu in 2009 in how this shaped public health then and during Covid. They also point out the tensions between centralized big data goals and the need for local public health facilities and aims. At the end, Claas and Sam suggest how Covid might be used to shape better outcomes in the future with a greater place for social scientists in future planning.

Rhona Seidelman (Oklahoma University) talks to Merle and Lee about how the newly founded state of Israel quarantined immigrants at Shaar Ha’aliya. After discussing background information on how large the center was and how many people passed through it, she speaks about the diseases people were treated for while there and the reactions of the people quarantined at the center. Rhona then talks about why the site was no longer used over time, parallels to more familiar sites such as Ellis Island in New York, and why the Israeli public has largely forgotten the site in the decades that followed. At the end, she discusses the importance of such histories during Covid.

Aro Velmet (USC Dornsife) joins Merle and Lee to discuss his work on the Institut Pasteur in the context of colonial France in the late 19th century. The conversation begins with some background on colonial France and the French civilizing mission, then moves on to examine the foundation and operation of the Institut Pasteur, especially in the French colonies. Aro explains how the Pasteurians became involved in public health in the French colonies and reflects on their relationship to the French colonial state.

Colin Elliot (Indiana University) talks to Merle and Lee about the late second century CE Antonine Plague and the complicated ways to assess its impact in antiquity. He begins by offering the textbook background to the pandemic before turning to discussing the sources we have for the pandemic along with the problems each type of source has. Colin then turns to discuss how this pandemic exacerbated other existing changes to Roman society at the time and how to try to differentiate its effects. At the end, Colin talks to the hosts about the place of Covid in studying ancient pandemics and how his work might be useful for those who work on other pandemics in the premodern world.

Keith Wailoo (Princeton University) talks to Merle and Lee about his work on racial scripts and the racialization of pandemics with a focus on Covid. He begins by discussing the idea of pandemics unfolding in dramatic acts and then explains the role of race in this story. Keith examines the deeper history of these racial scripts, along with the impact various disparities play in other pandemics. Finally, he reflects upon the highly differentiated Covid story in the US based on geography and offers a future for the academic study of the history of medicine.

Ben Dodds (Florida State University) speaks with Merle and Lee about his new book on memories, myths, and the modern uses of the Black Death over the past 200 years. He begins by discussing the emotional appeal of why people continue to study the Black Death, along with the increased focus on the pandemic since the outbreak of the Cholera Pandemics in the 19th century. Ben then speaks more specifically about the Black Death’s role as a key part of English exceptionalism, in which the pandemic is key to ideas about freedom and industrialization. At the end, Ben explains the importance of public facing histories and literature in the memory and myths of the Black Death along with outlining how he does research on these genres.

The image is from Green's A Short History of the English People, illustrated ed., 1902 (vol. 2, p. 478). 

Kaspar Staub (University of Zurich) talks to Merle and Lee about his work in historical epidemiology and the ways in which it helps contextualize the ongoing Covid pandemic. After first offering background on the field and his education, Kaspar discusses one of his goals, which is to help public health officials and policy makers today understand the historical context of pandemics in the past. He then talks about his work on the 1918 Influenza in Switzerland and its implications for Covid policy, along with how it - and earlier pandemics such as the 1890 “Russian Flu” - fall into the disaster memory gap. At the end, Kaspar, Merle, and Lee have a wide ranging conversation about the role human values play in responding to pandemics and how to help shape those in the future.

Rebecca Kaplan (Oklahoma State University) joins Merle and Lee to discuss some of her recent work on animals and disease. Rebecca first explains the different reasons why we should care about disease in animals - ranging from moral reasons to economic reasons such as the impact on humans and their livelihoods. Rebecca also touches upon some of the diseases that move between different species of animals. The second half of the interview focuses on brucellosis, a group of diseases that drew attention particularly in the early 20th century in the context of livestock. Rebecca surveys some of the issues with brucellosis in the US - such as its presence in milk particularly at a time where the dairy industry was trying to get more people to drink milk, attempts to mitigate its impact through regulation, and the involvement of industry and marketing in these processes.

Susanne Hakenbeck (University of Cambridge) joins Merle and Lee to discuss the key role of archaeology in histories of disease, pandemics, and climate change in the ancient and medieval worlds. After discussing the place of archaeology in understanding health and disease, Susanne talks about the pivotal role archaeologists have in contextualizing disease at specific sites, including dating and what human remains can and cannot show. She then speaks about archaeology and climate change, especially the place of resilience in premodern archaeology and how settlement patterns change over time. Finally, she discusses the inherent tensions within archaeology about micro and macro scales along with how right-wing and other groups have, at times, co-opted archeology for their own goals.

Graham Mooney (Johns Hopkins University) talks to Merle and Lee about the key roles of place and space in how we understand disease in the modern world. After defining these terms and offering a few examples of how to research them, Graham discusses the key role of disease surveillance and tof state coercion in imperial centers and their colonies. He then turns to talk about changes in public health in the last half century, with a focus on the city of Baltimore. At the end, Graham reflects on all of these ideas in light of the Covid pandemic.

Beatrix Hoffman (Northern Illinois University) joins the Infectious Historians to discuss the healthcare system in the United States. The conversation begins with an overview of the American healthcare system and its origins, then proceeds to cover governmental health programs, highlighting those who receive treatment (and in what form), and those who do not receive treatment and remain uninsured. Beatrix focuses in particular on Cesar Chavez and the United Farm Workers in the 1960s and 1970s, and their attempt to provide heavily subsidized healthcare to union members. The conversation concludes with a reflection on some of Beatrix’s public facing work, in particular her curation of exhibitions at the National Library of Medicine.

Emily Mendenhall (Georgetown University) joins Merle and Lee to discuss Covid in her hometown in northwest Iowa. The conversation begins with a definition and reflection on the idea of syndemic, then gravitates towards Emily’s own experiences returning to her hometown of Okoboji during Covid. Emily uses the Okoboji case study to disentangle issues within the broader American response to Covid - ranging from the politicization of the question, to the personal and communal interactions and interests, as well as the common values in the community that influenced the overall response of Okoboji to Covid. The interview ends with a few reflections on potential ways forward.

Jules Skotnes-Brown (University of St. Andrews) joins Merle and Lee to discuss his work on humans, animals and the environment in the context of South Africa at the turn of the 20th century. The interview begins with some background about South Africa and its disease landscape at the time. Jules covers some of the ideas the different contemporary groups had about these diseases and how to prevent or deal with them. The conversation goes over some of these ideas and practices - such as extermination of big game animals or the creation of rat proof belts (cleared strips of land). Jules situates the experience of South Africa within a broader global context, while also centering the importance of race and colonialism in the discussion.

Lisa Sarasohn (Oregon State University) joins the Infectious Historians to discuss her forthcoming book on vermin since the 17th century. The interview begins with an overview of what vermin are - and how different animal species have been included or excluded throughout the years. The conversation then moves to touch upon early modern conceptions of vermin which eventually led to the stereotyping of human groups as verminous or vermin in the context of colonialism and imperialism. Lisa also expands on two specific species of vermin - lice and rats - before tying the discussion to Covid.

Kirsten Ostherr (Rice University) joins Merle and Lee to discuss the role of the humanities in the context of Covid, in particular in an applied sense. The interview begins with an overview of Kirsten’s project and a few examples of current work in the applied humanities that attempts to address Covid. Kirsten notes how her background has helped her reconsider and reframe the traditional roles of the humanities in this context, and continues to highlight some of the limits and challenges the humanities must face in the 21st century mediascape. She also comments on some ideas to increase the humanities outreach among specific and more receptive audiences.

Andrew Wehrman (Central Michigan University) talks to Merle and Lee about the importance of public health, especially smallpox and inoculations, during the American Revolution. After first orienting listeners to the political situation in North America, Andrew discusses differences between public health in Britain and the colonies, along with how the colonists used quarantine and isolation to stop the spread of smallpox. He then discusses the importance of inoculation in preventing smallpox on a broader scale, along with how the movement of armies during the Revolution led to more demand for more readily available inoculation even for the poor (although not Native Americans). At the end, he offers similarities between 18th century epidemics and Covid including why vaccines changed the calculus and why some outbreaks of smallpox were worse than others.

Tim Newfield (Georgetown University) talks to Merle and Lee about the connected histories of climate change and diseases that become pandemics, focusing on the early medieval and late antique periods. Tim opens by discussing the global cooling events starting in 536 and how researchers know they happened through various proxy datasets, such as tree rings, along with how historians should approach using these types of natural sources. He then talks about the long-term climate cooling event, the Late Antique Little Ice Age, along with its supposed connections to the outbreak of the Justinianic Plague in 541. Tim also talks about why researchers have remained so focused on the influence of climate on plague. At the end, he discusses where he believes the field of pre-modern historical diseases is going and the influence of Covid in this trajectory.