Extra Words with Mark Hackett

What did the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus actually do? Many Christians today genuinely believe the answer is simple: Jesus died for our sins. But sincere followers of Jesus have wrestled with this question for nearly 2,000 years and arrived at very different conclusions along the way. In this episode, we dive down the rabbit hole into the world of Christian atonement theory, asking questions that lead us to more questions. Have we missed major components of The Gospel? Do we really understand Jesus? And why does it feel like some people who are so certain of The Gospel fail to live as Jesus did?

Dr. Jennifer Garcia Bashaw is Assistant Professor of New Testament and Christian Ministry at Campbell University. She is also an ordained pastor. In her book Scapegoats: The Gospel through the Eyes of Victims, she shows how many Christians today read the New Testament as victors, not as victims. The teachings and actions of Jesus thus lose much of their subversive significance. The Gospels become one harmonized story about individual salvation rather than distinct representations of Jesus's radical work on behalf of victims.

In the first half of this conversation, Jennifer teaches us what atonement theory is and walks us through a few of the more significant theories found across Church history. Then, Mark and Jennifer discuss the embodiment of these beliefs in the real world and explore a new theory — Scapegoat Theory— which illuminates an essential truth of the Gospels: that Jesus modeled a reality in which victims become survivors, and the marginalized become central to the Kingdom of God.

Show Notes

“Right now, Black voices are in.” That’s the opening line from Reading Black Books: How African American Literature Can Make Our Faith More Whole and Just by Pastor Claude Atcho from Church of the Resurrection in Charlottesville, VA.

Learning from Black voices means listening to more than snippets. It means attending to Black stories. In Reading Black Books, Claude offers a theological approach to 10 seminal texts of 20th-century African American literature. Each chapter takes up a theological category for inquiry through a close literary reading and theological reflection on a primary literary text, from Ralph Ellison's Invisible Man and Richard Wright's Native Son to Zora Neale Hurston's Moses, Man of the Mountain and James Baldwin's Go Tell It on the Mountain.

This book helps readers of all backgrounds learn from the contours of Christian faith formed and forged by Black stories, helping us move toward deeper conversations about racial justice in the church. Claude demonstrates that reading about Black experience as shown in the literature of great African American writers can guide us toward sharper theological thinking and more faithful living.

In the first half of this conversation, Claude shares some of his keen theological insights on a few formative works from Black writers. Then, Mark and Claude discuss the true universality of these stories and how they can inform our faith in ways that extend well beyond conversations about race, helping to bring renewal to our faith, churches, and communities.

Show Notes

“Biblical womanhood” is the belief that God designed women to be submissive wives, virtuous mothers, and joyful homemakers. From career choices to local church roles to important relationships, the everyday lives of millions of women —and men— in North American Christianity are shaped by this belief.

But in her paradigm-shifting book The Making of Biblical Womanhood: How the Subjugation of Women Became Gospel Truth, Baylor University historian Dr. Beth Allison Barr explains why biblical womanhood isn’t as biblical as we’ve been told. She shows how this belief is a product of human civilization, not a divine ordination. Her timely book provides needed context for contemporary teachings about women’s roles in the church, providing us all a path forward out of a debate that has devolved into a quagmire.

In the first half of this conversation, Beth shares some of the history of women’s roles in the church and home that many American Christians are unaware of. Then, Mark and Beth discuss the real-world implications of gender hierarchy —including widespread abuse and the crisis of masculinity plaguing complementarian church culture— and the hope of what a better future could look like.

Show Notes

Why is white evangelical culture often so controlling and resistant to change? Why is there so much abuse in white evangelical churches? And how did the people of “family values” fall in line behind Donald Trump in such large numbers?

These are questions answered in Jesus and John Wayne: How White Evangelicals Corrupted a Faith and Fractured a Nation by Dr. Kristin Kobes Du Mez, Professor of History and Gender Studies at Calvin University.

Her deeply researched history book pushes beyond facile headlines to discover why white evangelicalism isn’t as pure as many of its adherents believe. Historical analysis spanning decades culminates in a stunning conclusion: Donald Trump represents the fulfillment, rather than the betrayal, of white evangelicals’ most deeply held values.

In the first half of this episode, Kristin shares some of the history of how white evangelicalism became what it is today. In the second half, Mark and Kristin discuss the real-world implications of white evangelical teachings and culture, and the enduring consequences for us all.

Show Notes