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Naturalistic Decision Making

Naturalistic Decision Making

By Brian Moon and Laura Militello
Brian Moon and Laura Militello interview leading NDM researchers who study and support people who make decisions under stress.
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Episode #31: Interview with Missy Cummings
Date: 04/08/2021 Show Description: Mary "Missy" Cummings received her B.S. in Mathematics from the US Naval Academy in 1988, her M.S. in Space Systems Engineering from the Naval Postgraduate School in 1994, and her Ph.D. in Systems Engineering from the University of Virginia in 2004. A naval officer and military pilot from 1988-1999, she was one of the Navy's first female fighter pilots. Cummings is currently a Professor at the Duke University Pratt School of  Engineering, the Duke Institute of Brain Sciences, and is the director of the Humans and Autonomy Laboratory and Duke Robotics. Her research interests include human-unmanned vehicle interaction, human-autonomous system collaboration, human-systems engineering, public policy implications of unmanned vehicles, and the ethical and social impact of technology. Where to find Missy: Duke Pratt School of Engineering Twitter: @missy_cummings LinkedIn Learn more about NDM: NaturalisticDecisionMaking.org Journal of Cognitive Engineering and Decision Making Where to find hosts Brian Moon and Laura Militello: Brian’s website Brian’s LinkedIn Brian’s Twitter Laura’s website Laura’s LinkedIn Laura’s Twitter
57:52
April 15, 2021
Episode #30: Interview with Cindy Dominguez
Date: 3/18/2021 Show Description: Cindy is a Principal Cognitive Engineer and Capability Lead for Human Machine Teaming (HMT) at MITRE in Bedford, MA where she works to normalize the use of systems engineering processes that create effective partnerships between people and technology. She strives to build a strong community of MITRE Human Machine Teaming practitioners.  Before coming to MITREin 2014, she led numerous studies of applied cognitive work in the Air Force and for industry. She has conducted applied research in settings that include command and control from tactical to strategic, submarine operations, intelligence analysis, and healthcare. Recent work in collaboration with design professionals has emphasized combining cognitive engineering and design thinking methods. She earned a Ph.D. from Wright State University in 1997; her dissertation topic was decision making in laparoscopic surgery. With an undergraduate degree in Behavioral Science from the U.S. Air Force Academy, she served as an Air Force officer in behavioral science and acquisition roles for 20 years, retiring in 2004 as a Lieutenant Colonel.  She served on the Air Force’s Scientific Advisory Board from 2011-2015. Learn more about Cindy’s work: Human-Machine Teaming Systems Engineering Guide Cognitive Engineering Toolkit Learn more about NDM: NaturalisticDecisionMaking.org Journal of Cognitive Engineering and Decision Making Where to find hosts Brian Moon and Laura Militello: Brian’s website Brian’s LinkedIn Brian’s Twitter Laura’s website Laura’s LinkedIn Laura’s Twitter
47:26
April 12, 2021
Episode #29: Interview with Kathleen Mosier
Date: 3/9/2021 Show Description: Dr. Mosier is an Emeritus Professor of Psychology from San Francisco  State University and the Founder and Principal Scientist of TeamScape  LLC, a company founded to conduct research on teams in  work environments. She is the President of the International  Ergonomics Association (IEA), the federation of ergonomics and human  factors societies around the world.   The mission of the IEA is to  elaborate and advance ergonomics science and practice, and to expand  its scope of application and contribution to society to improve the  quality of life, working closely with its constituent societies and  related international organizations. Learn more about Kathleen’s work: Berkeley Interdisciplinary Center for Healthy Workplaces Kathleen's LinkedIn Learn more about NDM: NaturalisticDecisionMaking.org Journal of Cognitive Engineering and Decision Making Where to find hosts Brian Moon and Laura Militello: Brian’s website Brian’s LinkedIn Brian’s Twitter Laura’s website Laura’s LinkedIn Laura’s Twitter Timestamps: How Kathleen transitioned from being a high school humanities teacher to an NDM researcher [2:02] Kathleen’s experience in pursuing research at San Francisco State University [05:21] Founding TeamScape, LLC [6:23] Challenges acquiring government clients as an NDM researcher [7:34] Kathleen’s current project with NASA researching teams in space [14:47] Cultural nuances of interactions on NASA crews operating in different countries [20:40] “Which research project has been most rewarding for you?” [22:10] What kind of automation systems planes were using in the 1990’s [24:01] Kathleen’s early NDM influences [28:04] Changes witnessed in the NDM community over time [29:50]
38:32
March 19, 2021
Episode #28: Interview with Lia DiBello
Date: 12/10/2020 Show Description: Lia DiBello is president and director of research at WTRI, Inc. She received her Ph.D. in cognitive psychology at CUNY Graduate School in New York, where she studied under the late Distinguished Professor Sylvia Scribner, a well known pioneer in the area of workplace cognitive and the author of many now classic works. Since she started directing the research at WTRI, Dr. DiBello has been the recipient of 17 basic research funding awards from the National Science Foundation, NASA, and The Russell Sage Foundation. DiBello is best known for the development of a particular kind of activity-based “strategic rehearsal” approach that has been shown to greatly accelerate learning through cognitive reorganization. Where to find Leah: LinkedIn WTRI Learn more about NDM: NaturalisticDecisionMaking.org Journal of Cognitive Engineering and Decision Making Where to find hosts Brian Moon and Laura Militello: Brian’s website Brian’s LinkedIn Brian’s Twitter Laura’s website Laura’s LinkedIn Laura’s Twitter Timestamps: How Leah first became involved in NDM [1:50] Leah’s methods for developing new methods [9:45] Strategies for measuring the impact of a training to know if it’s working [18:45] Leading a financial services firm to new a new profitable approach [32:15] Capturing mental models prior to training [32:57] Advantages of using virtual worlds to achieve NDM goals [36:08] Career influences in and outside the NDM community [44:00] One single question that could determine whether someone truly practices NDM [45:49] Where Leah plans to take her research next [46:29] Two truths and a lie [52:19]
54:04
February 19, 2021
Episode #27: Interview with Shawn A. Weil
Date: 02/11/2021 Show Description: Shawn received a PhD and MA in Cognitive/Experimental Psychology from Ohio State University, with specializations in cognitive engineering, quantitative psychology, and psycholinguistics. He previously received a BA in Psychology/Music from Binghamton University (SUNY). He is a member of the Human Factors and Ergonomics Society, the American Psychological Association, the National Defense Industrial Association, and the Cognitive Science Society. Where to find Shawn: Aptima Human Centered Engineering Learn more about NDM: NaturalisticDecisionMaking.org Journal of Cognitive Engineering and Decision Making Where to find hosts Brian Moon and Laura Militello: Brian’s website Brian’s LinkedIn Brian’s Twitter Laura’s website Laura’s LinkedIn Laura’s Twitter Timestamps: Describing Aptima and how it connects to the NDM community [1:28] How human centeredness is expressed in Aptima’s core domains [6:17] Shawn’s experience transitioning from research to a more executive role [11:00] Staying true to core principles when working with a multidisciplinary team [19:04] Pushback when making the case for NDM methods [26:17] Biggest influences on Shawn’s career [31:30] Future research priorities for Aptima [38:11] How to decide whether to file a patent and what that process is like [42:18] One question to determine if someone is a human centered practitioner [46:52] Some things that not many people know about Shawn [49:58]
53:01
February 19, 2021
Episode #26: Interview with Mike McCloskey
Date: 02/05/2021 Show Description: Mike is grateful for the privilege of studying and supporting decision makers in over 100 military and commercial domains over the past 25 years, ranging from intelligence analysts and Special Operations Forces to computer hackers and cyber-security personnel, to intelligence analysts and firefighters.  He speaks both psychology and engineering and enjoys helping to bridge the gap between these often-disconnected worlds. In his free time, Mike enjoys spending time with his family, backpacking, playing several sports poorly, and eating the hottest foods on the planet. He has an M.S. in Psychology and a B.S. in Mechanical Engineering from the University of Dayton. Where to find Mike: 361 Interactive LinkedIn Learn more about NDM: NaturalisticDecisionMaking.org Journal of Cognitive Engineering and Decision Making Where to find hosts Brian Moon and Laura Militello: Brian’s website Brian’s LinkedIn Brian’s Twitter Laura’s website Laura’s LinkedIn Laura’s Twitter Timestamps: Mike’s experience starting 361 Interactive and growing his small business [1:21] Current crowdsourcing tool project for the U.S. Navy [4:17] Contrasting work on a large-scale metadata project versus research on individual perspectives [11:16] Mike’s most rewarding project working with Navy SEALs [15:14] The value of making mistakes in training exercises [26:08] Nearly running over a colonel during a research trip [31:21] Encountering resistance to research findings and recommendations [39:04] Three most influential people on Mike’s career and approach [42:23] “If you were given one question to determine if someone practices NDM, what would you ask?” [47:55] Two truths and a lie [49:08]
54:16
February 15, 2021
Episode #25: Interview with Simon Henderson
Date: 1/29/2021 Show Description: Simon Henderson is an independent deception consultant working in the UK and the US.  His career has involved researching, teaching, and consulting on deception, counter-deception, information operations and cyber operations within a variety of government, military, and law enforcement organisations.  He is passionate about novel and pro-social applications of these fields. Learn more about Simon’s work: Deception by Design Evaluationof the counter fake-news game, Harmony Square Immersive theatre company, Punchdrunk Learn more about NDM: NaturalisticDecisionMaking.org Journal of Cognitive Engineering and Decision Making Where to find hosts Brian Moon and Laura Militello: Brian’s website Brian’s LinkedIn Brian’s Twitter Laura’s website Laura’s LinkedIn Laura’s Twitter Timestamps: Simon’s early path to a career in deception [1:15] First exposure to NDM [5:54] Proposing to apply magic and deception skills to military [20:59] The technique of misdirection in deception [24:42] Nuances of using deception on experts [32:31] One question that could determine if someone is a magician [41:51] Differences between observing and performing magic [47:58] Outlook for the next 15 years and details about Simon’s blog and book [51:48] Two truths and a lie [1:02:55]
01:09:36
January 29, 2021
Episode #24: Interview with John Flach
Date: 12/17/2020 Show Description: John Flach received his PhD in human experimental psychology from The Ohio State University in 1984. After more than 30 years of teaching and supervising graduate research in universities, he joined Mile Two--a custom software development company--as a senior cognitive systems engineer. John has written extensively about cognitive systems engineering (CSE) and ecological interface design (EID) approaches to human performance and design, including three co-authored books, three co-edited books, and more than 180 archival publications. After many years of talking and writing about CSE and EID, he is enjoying the opportunity to test what he has learned against the challenges of designing practical solutions to contemporary problems in sociotechnical systems. Learn more about John’s work: John’s blog  Mile Two A Meaning Processing Approach to Cognition Amazon author page Learn more about NDM: NaturalisticDecisionMaking.org Journal of Cognitive Engineering and Decision Making Where to find hosts Brian Moon and Laura Militello: Brian’s website Brian’s LinkedIn Brian’s Twitter Laura’s website Laura’s LinkedIn Laura’s Twitter Timestamps: John’s early experiences as a mental health counselor [1:40] Making the shift to Human Factors [7:16] Becoming introduced to the Naturalistic Decision Making community [9:06] Connection to Delft University of Technology in the Netherlands [10:30] Parallels between human factors, NDM, and cognitive system engineering [13:23] Explaining complex ideas in creative ways [19:26] BLANK [22:35 – 22:58] Surprises in shifting to an applied setting [24:23] Things, events, and experiences that have had an impact on John’s perspective as a researcher [29:32] “There may not be individual cognition’ [31:47] Something about John that most people don’t know [39:24] The kind of work that has been the most rewarding [41:10] What’s next on John’s research agenda [47:04] “If you could instantly become an expert in something, what would you choose?” [51:06]
53:45
December 17, 2020
Episode #23: Interview with Mica Endsley
Date: 12/03/2020 Show Description: Dr. Mica Endsley is widely recognized as a pioneer and world leader in the study and application of situation awareness in advanced systems. She is a former President of the Human Factors and Ergonomics Society and former Chief Scientist for the U.S. Air Force. Dr. Endsley is the author of over 200 scientific articles and reports on situation awareness, decision-making, and human-system integration and is widely cited in professional journals. She is the co-author of “Designing for Situation Awareness” and speaks extensively at conferences. Dr. Endsley has a Ph.D. in Industrial and Systems Engineering from the University of Southern California. She is a Certified Professional Ergonomist (CPE). Learn more about Mica’s work: SA Technologies ResearchGate Designing for Situation Awareness: An Approach to User-Centered Design, Second Edition Handbook of Distributed Team Cognition Learn more about NDM: NaturalisticDecisionMaking.org Journal of Cognitive Engineering and Decision Making Where to find hosts Brian Moon and Laura Militello: Brian’s website Brian’s LinkedIn Brian’s Twitter Laura’s website Laura’s LinkedIn Laura’s Twitter Timestamps: The first paper Dr. Endsley ever published [1:00} The importance of situation awareness [3:10] The challenges of dealing with cognitive dissonance and confirmation bias [8:35] How to encourage open-mindedness [12:20] UFO’s and how individuals respond when their mental models fail [14:50] Past research projects that have been particularly rewarding [19:50] Reflections on serving as chief scientist for the Airforce [21:13] Insights on experiences of trying to convince others to think differently [23:30] Interesting projects surrounding situation awareness [29:57] Advice for people just entering the field of NDM [32:32] Major influences in Dr. Endsley’s career [34:25] Ideas on ways to better manage the COVID-19 response [35:32] One question that can determine if someone is an NDM researcher [40:15] Some things that not many people know about Dr. Endsley [42:18] “If you could become an expert in anything instantly, what would it be?” [43:30]
46:20
December 3, 2020
Episode #22: Interview with Neelam Naikar
Date: 12/02/2020 Show Description: Neelam is the lead scientist at the Center for Cognitive Work and Safety Analysis (CWSA). She joined what is now the Defence Science and Technology Group (DST Group) as a Research Scientist in 1996 and was promoted to Senior Research Scientist in 1999. Some of Neelam's major projects at DST have involved the extension of Cognitive Work Analysis to support the acquisition of complex, military systems and the application of AcciMap Analysis and the Critical Decision Method to enhance safety in these systems. Her current research interests include the development of theories and methods for analysing cognitive work in complex sociotechnical systems. Neelam obtained a Bachelor of Science (Honours) in Psychology from the University of New South Wales, Australia, in 1993 and a PhD in Psychology from the University of Auckland, New Zealand, in 1996. She is a member of the editorial boards for Applied Ergonomics, the Journal of Cognitive Engineering and Decision Making and the Journal of Human Performance in Extreme Environments. She is also the author of Work Domain Analysis: Concepts, Guidelines and Cases (Taylor & Francis, 2013). Where to find Neelam: Designing for Adaptation in Workers’ Individual Behaviors and Collective Structures With Cognitive Work Analysis: Case Study of the Diagram of Work Organization Possibilities Designing for self-organisation in sociotechnical systems: resilience engineering, cognitive work analysis, and the diagram of work organisation possibilities Distributed Cognition in Self-Organizing Teams Cognitive Systems Engineering: Expertise in Sociotechnical Systems Learn more about NDM: NaturalisticDecisionMaking.org Where to find hosts Brian Moon and Laura Militello: Brian’s website Brian’s LinkedIn Brian’s Twitter Laura’s website Laura’s LinkedIn Laura’s Twitter
52:21
December 2, 2020
Episode #20: Interview with William Wong
Date: 11/06/2020 Show Description: Today we welcome William Wong. Dr. Wong is Professor of Human-Computer Interaction, and Head of the Interaction Design Centre at Middlesex University London. His research is in cognitive engineering and the representation and interaction design of user interfaces that enhance situation awareness, sense-making, reasoning, and decision making in dynamic environments such as air traffic control, emergency ambulance control, critical incident management. His current research focuses on designing for transparency in human-machine teams.In September 2020, Dr Wong returned from a 2-year industrial sabbatical as Principal Scientist at Genetec Inc., where he and his team commercialized selected IP from the EU-funded VALCRI project. VALCRI was a 17-organisation R&D consortium which Wong led from 2014-2018, tasked to develop a next generation visual analytics and sense making system for criminal intelligence analysis and investigation. He has received over US$25.3 million in research grants and published over 120 scientific peer reviewed articles with his students and colleagues. Where to find William: Middlesex University, London The Interaction Design Center at Middlesex University VALCRI  Learn more about NDM: NaturalisticDecisionMaking.org Where to find hosts Brian Moon and Laura Militello: Brian’s website Brian’s LinkedIn Brian’s Twitter Laura’s website Laura’s LinkedIn Laura’s Twitter
58:45
November 17, 2020
Episode #19: Interview with Jason Saleem
Date: 10/23/2020 Show Description: Today we welcome Jason Saleem. Jason J. Saleem is an Assistant Professor with the Department of Industrial Engineering at the J.B. Speed School of Engineering at the University of Louisville. He is also the Director of the Center for Ergonomics. Dr. Saleem received his Ph.D. from the Department of Industrial and Systems Engineering at Virginia Tech in 2003, specializing in human factors engineering and ergonomics. Prior to joining the University of Louisville, Dr. Saleem spent several years with the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) as a research investigator. He is a former VA Research Career Development Awardee. Dr. Saleem’s research interests focus on the integration of human factors engineering and ergonomics with development of clinical information systems (CIS). His research involves innovation for next-generation electronic health records (EHRs) and health information technology (HIT) to support higher quality care and safety. His research also focuses on provider-patient interaction with respect to exam room computing, as well as the coordination of multiple computing devices in a healthcare setting. Where to find Jason: University of Louisville Google Scholar UofL researchers testing virtual COVID-19 care tool for veterans  UofL research uses tech to improve doctor’s visits Learn more about NDM: NaturalisticDecisionMaking.org Where to find hosts Brian Moon and Laura Militello: Brian’s website Brian’s LinkedIn Brian’s Twitter Laura’s website Laura’s LinkedIn Laura’s Twitter
48:57
November 16, 2020
Episode #18: Interview with Eduardo Salas
Date: 10/02/2020 Show Description: Eduardo is the Allyn R. & Gladys M. Cline Professor and Chair of the Department of Psychological Sciences at Rice University. A prolific author and active consultant, he has published over 600 articles and chapters and his work has been cited over 100,000 times. He has consulted in a wide range of domains including healthcare, manufacturing, oil and gas, aviation and aerospace. He is a Past President of the Society for Industrial/Organizational Psychology and the Human Factors & Ergonomics Society, and is a Fellow in numerous scientific societies. He was awarded the Lifetime Achievement Award from the American Psychological Association and from the Society for Human Resources Management. He is co-author of a recently published book on the science and practice of teamwork. Where to find Eduardo: Teams That Work Rice University Learn more about NDM: NaturalisticDecisionMaking.org Where to find hosts Brian Moon and Laura Militello: Brian’s website Brian’s LinkedIn Brian’s Twitter Laura’s website Laura’s LinkedIn Laura’s Twitter
49:46
November 16, 2020
Episode #17: Interview with Pam Richards
Date: 9/24/2020 Show Description: Dr. Pamela Richards leads the University of Central Lancaster’s vision for the research theme “Developing Expertise in individuals and teams”. Richards supervises over 18 doctoral students in the UK and worldwide in decision-making (including military / fire & technical, complex rescues & elite sport). Her research focuses on the development and operationalization of shared mental models in high pressurized naturalistic settings. Pam works externally as a consult to the English Institute of Sport working with five podium sports and has experience of working in related domains of emergency services and military research. Where to find Pam: Twitter Commentary: Team Cognition in Sport: How Current Insights Into How Teamwork Is Achieved in Naturalistic Settings Can Lead to Simulation Studies Learn more about NDM: NaturalisticDecisionMaking.org Where to find hosts Brian Moon and Laura Militello: Brian’s website Brian’s LinkedIn Brian’s Twitter Laura’s website Laura’s LinkedIn Laura’s Twitter Timestamps: How Pam got involved in NDM after working as a coach [1:30] Autonomous decision making in team sports [3:40] Applying cognitive task analysis to coaching players [4:30] Balancing self-reflection and knowledge elicitation when facilitating CTA as a coach [8:20] Using concept mapping to contextualize play patterns [11:05] Getting players to take responsibility for their own self-reflection [15:00] Creating a shared performance vision to inform player decision-making [18:05] Teaching and applying decision-making skills at both an elite and developmental level [21:20] What Pam misses about coaching [25:15] Exploring the high-pressurized decision-making framework [26:12] Applying coaching skills to academic work [30:15] Thoughts on motivation  [31:30] Major influences within and outside the NDM community [34:30] Working with law enforcement and first responders [36:00] Using body camera footage for police training [40:47] The role of goals in sport and non-sport domains [43:20] What is one question you could ask to determine if someone is a real NDM practitioner? [47:30] Favorite part of coaching team hockey [50:30] How to incorporate NDM and CTA tools into coaching without drastically increasing workload [52:55]
57:32
September 24, 2020
Episode #16: Interview with Steve Fiore
Date: 9/11/2020 Show Description: Dr. Stephen M. Fiore is Director, Cognitive Sciences Laboratory, and Professor with the University of Central Florida's Cognitive Sciences Program in the Department of Philosophy and Institute for Simulation & Training. He maintains a multidisciplinary research interest that incorporates aspects of the cognitive, social, organizational, and computational sciences in the investigation of learning and performance in individuals and teams. His primary area of research is the interdisciplinary study of complex collaborative cognition and the understanding of how humans interact socially and with technology. Where to find Steve: ResearchGate Learn more about NDM: NaturalisticDecisionMaking.org Journal of Cognitive Engineering and Decision Making Where to find hosts Brian Moon and Laura Militello: Brian’s website Brian’s LinkedIn Brian’s Twitter Laura’s website Laura’s LinkedIn Laura’s Twitter Timestamps: Highlights of work at Cognitive Sciences Laboratory [2:00} Where NDM fits into interdisciplinary research and how it relates to anthropology [3:50] How Steve became familiar with NDM [5:25] “Aha” moments that led to interest in understanding the psychology of groups and teams {9:10] Current CSL projects, including new applications for Artificial Intelligence {12:10} Potential breakthroughs in Theory of Mind project [17:10] How leadership in NDM spaces has shaped Steve’s approach to the work [22:37] The idea os “stewardship” to help direct where the field of NDM should go [25:35] Trends in NDM that warrant debate [27:30] Developing “problem spaces” for better identify and understand complex issues [33:55] Building relationships to raise funding and support around complex problems [35:45] Early career in marketing for the Computer Learning Center and the transition to cognition [39:00] Major influences that shaped Steve’s thinking [42:30] Others’ reaction to NDM when being introduced to it for the first time [50:42] If you could choose three philosophers to be your student, mentor, and collaborator, who would they be? [54:12]
01:00:42
September 11, 2020
Episode #15: Interview with Emily Patterson
Date: 8/27/2020 Show Description: Today we welcome Emily Patterson. Emily is an associate professor in the School of Health and Rehabilitation Sciences at the Ohio State University. She is known for her application of naturalistic decision making and cognitive engineering in health care. She did groundbreaking work in bar code medication administration when that technology was new, highlighting unintended consequences and making recommendations to improve the integration of new technologies into workflow. She co-authored the national standard for the summative usability testing methodology for ensuring the safety of electronic health records published by the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST). She has conducted applied research on clinical reminders, alarms, and transitions of care with a focus on improving the efficiency, usability, and accuracy of clinical documentation in electronic health records. Where to find Emily: The Ohio State University  Usability and User Experience in Health Care certificate program  NISTIR 7804: Technical Evaluation, Testing, and Validation of the Usability of Electronic Health Records Macrocognition Metrics and Scenario: Design and Evaluation for Real-World Teams  Learn more about NDM: NaturalisticDecisionMaking.org Where to find hosts Brian Moon and Laura Militello: Brian’s website Brian’s LinkedIn Brian’s Twitter Laura’s website Laura’s LinkedIn Laura’s Twitter
01:02:36
September 3, 2020
Episode #14: Interview with Lee Roy Beach
Date: 8/07/2020 Show Description: Today we welcome Lee Beach. Lee is the McClelland Centennial Emeritus Professor of Management at the Eller College of Business, at the University of Arizona. He was a Professor of Public Administration and of Psychology, teaching graduate and executive courses on managerial decision making and organizational change. He served on the editorial boards of several well-known journals including: Organizational Behavior and Human Decision Making, The Journal of Behavior Decision Making, and The Journal of Forecasting. He attended the first conference on Naturalistic Decision Making in 1989 and is known for his work on the theory of the mind, the theory of narrative thought, and image theory. He has authored many influential books and articles, and he is also a professional artist. Where to find Lee: NarrativeThoughtForum.com The psychology of narrative thought: How the stories we tell ourselves shape our lives A new theory of mind: The theory of narrative thought The structure of conscious experience Learn more about NDM: NaturalisticDecisionMaking.org Where to find hosts Brian Moon and Laura Militello: Brian’s website Brian’s LinkedIn Brian’s Twitter Laura’s website Laura’s LinkedIn Laura’s Twitter
45:51
August 21, 2020
Episode #13: Interview with David Woods
Date: 7/16/2020 Show Description: David Woods has worked to improve systems safety in high risk, complex settings for over 38 years. These include studies of human coordination with automated and intelligent systems and accident investigations in aviation, nuclear power, critical care medicine, crisis response, military operations, outages of critical digital services, and space operations (he was an advisor to the Columbia Accident Investigation Board). He began developing Resilience Engineering in 2000-2003 as part of the response to several NASA accidents and is Past-President of the Resilience Engineering Association. His research publications on people, safety, and complexity have been cited > 25,000 times (H-index>80). Where to find David: The Ohio State University LinkedIn Learn more about NDM: NaturalisticDecisionMaking.org Where to find hosts Brian Moon and Laura Militello: Brian’s website Brian’s LinkedIn Brian’s Twitter Laura’s website Laura’s LinkedIn Laura’s Twitter Resources mentioned during the show: · Resilience in a pandemic working paper series · The Ohio State University, Department of Integrated Systems Engineering · Resilience Engineering in Practice
57:11
July 23, 2020
Episode #12: Interview with Gary L. Klein of MITRE
Date: 7/6/2020 Show Description: Gary L Klein received his BA in Psychology and his PhD in Cognitive Social Psychology. He is a Senior Principal Scientist in cognitive science and artificial intelligence at The MITRE Corporation, where he has worked for nearly 30 years, focusing primarily on how people acquire and use information in domains including emergency response, air traffic management, and intelligence analysis. He has led projects about using forecasting models that generate graphical depictions of decision spaces to improve decision makers’ “option awareness” under deep uncertainty, designing a Collaborative Option Awareness for Joint Actions, or COAction, process, to provide emergency responders with something beyond situation awareness, and generating a framework for evaluating collaboration. In 2015, Gary and MITRE served as hosts for the 12th International NDM Conference. Where to find Gary MITRE Learn more about NDM: NaturalisticDecisionMaking.org Where to find hosts Brian Moon and Laura Militello: Brian’s website Brian’s LinkedIn Brian’s Twitter Laura’s website Laura’s LinkedIn Laura’s Twitter Resources mentioned during the show: Drury, J.      L., Pfaff, M. S., and Klein, G. L. (in press). A Method for Rigorously      Assessing Causal Mental Models to Support Distributed Team Cognition. Pfaff,      M. S., Drury, J. L., and Klein, G. L. (2015). Crowdsourcing Mental Models      using DESIM (Descriptive to Executable Simulation Modeling).   Pfaff,      M. S., Klein, G. L., Drury, J. L, Moon, S. P., Liu, Y., and Entezari, S.      O. (2012). Supporting complex decision making through option awareness.      Journal of Cognitive Engineering and Decision Making Klein,      G. L., Drury, J. L., and Pfaff, M. S. (2011). Providing an option awareness      basis for naturalistic decision making. Journal of Cognitive      Technology, Vol 16(2), pp. 10 – 19.
53:49
July 10, 2020
Episode #11: Interview with Joel Suss
Date: 6/29/2020 Show Description: We’re pleased to be talking today with Joel Suss. Joel is Assistant Professor of Human Factors in the Department of Psychology at Wichita State University. His research work focus on understanding and improving perceptual-cognitive performance – in particular, anticipation, decision making -- in complex and challenging operational settings, such as law enforcement, security, military command and control, aviation, and emergency medicine. He has examined perceptual and cognitive aspects of CCTV monitoring and how automated, intelligent videos surveillance systems are changing the human operator’s role in security surveillance. Joel is perhaps best known known for his work investigating ways to train police officers to make better decision in stressful situations. Originally from Australia, Joel completed his PhD in Applied Cognitive Science and Human Factors at the Michigan Technological University. Where to find Joel: Wichita State's Human Factor's Ph.D. Program Online cognitive-skills training for improving police decision making: Can it work? Professor investigates what makes a good law enforcement officer through lab research Learn more about NDM: NaturalisticDecisionMaking.org Journal of Cognitive Engineering and Decision Making Where to find hosts Brian Moon and Laura Militello: Brian’s website Brian’s LinkedIn Brian’s Twitter Laura’s website Laura’s LinkedIn Laura’s Twitter Timestamps: How Joel got involved in NDM and cognitive expertise in law enforcement [1:40] The role of anticipation in police decision-making [12:30] How do you help police be better calibrated in their responses? [15:37] National Institute of Justice project to create tactical decision making exercises for police [17:35] Law enforcement’s response to NDM approaches [21:55] Cultural skepticism toward academics within law enforcement [26:30] People within and outside the NDM community who influenced Joel’s career [30:25] How have you benefited from helping others break into the NDM world? [34:25] The role of mentorship as a supplement to NDM graduate programs [38:10] Ways the NDM community can do a better job of developing young NDM researchers [44:05] Joel’s current and future research focus [49:40] Joel’s connection to Peter Fadde [55:07] If you could instantly achieve expertise in anything what would it be? [56:15]
01:01:56
July 1, 2020
Episode #10: Interview with Shawna Perry
Date: 6/18/2020 Show Description: Today we welcome Shawna Perry. Shawna is an emergency medicine physician and runs a consulting firm called SJP Consulting. In both her roles as a physician and a consultant, she actively advocates for systems level views of patient safety. She is an active member of the naturalistic decision making community, the human factors and ergonomics society, and the resilience engineering association. She uses her vast and varied clinical experiences to mentor countless resident physicians and also to inform applied research. Shawna very generously serves on panels, gives invited talks, and collaborates on writing projects to share her front-line perspective on the organizational constraints, competing goals, and other challenges emergency department physicians face every day as they care for patients. Dr. Perry spent 6 years as the Director for Patient Safety System Engineering at Virginia Commonwealth University Health Systems and is currently an Associate Professor of Emergency Medicine at the University of Florida Health Science Center in Jacksonville, FL. Where to find Shawna: 1.  Klein, G., Pliske, R., Crandall, B., & Woods, D. D. (2005). Problem detection.  Cognition, Technology & Work ,  7 (1), 14-28. DOI:  10.1007/s10111-004-0166-y 2.  Cook, R., & Rasmussen, J. (2005). “Going solid”: a model of system dynamics and consequences for patient safety.  BMJ Quality & Safety ,  14 (2), 130-134.  doi:  10.1136/qshc.2003.009530 3.  Perry, S., Wears, R. L., Anderson, B., & Booth, A. (2007). Peace and war: Contrasting cases of resilient teamwork in healthcare. In  Eighth International Naturalistic Decision Making Conference, Pacific Grove, CA . Learn more about NDM: NaturalisticDecisionMaking.org Journal of Cognitive Engineering and Decision Making Where to find hosts Brian Moon and Laura Militello: Brian’s website Brian’s LinkedIn Brian’s Twitter Laura’s website Laura’s LinkedIn Laura’s Twitter Timestamps: How did you become interested in NDM? [1:50] What are different attitudes that you've observed in regard to patient safety in clinical settings? [12:30] What are some times you've gotten pushback on your ideas? [23:35] What's a favorite story where you had to rely on your intuition? [42:40]
01:06:17
June 28, 2020
Episode #9; Interview with Peter Fadde and Olivia Brown
Show Description: Peter Fadde is professor and director of the Learning Systems Design and Technology (LSDT) graduate program at Southern Illinois University. Olivia Brown is a Research Associate at the University of Bath, School of Management. Where to find Peter: Accelerating the Acquisition of Intuitive Decision-Making through Expertise-Based Training (XBT) Instructional Design for Accelerated Macrocognitive Expertise in the Baseball Workplace TEDx talk "Frugal Engineering in Baseball and Beyond" Association for Applied Sport Psychology: Virtual Conference on Technology in Applied Sport Psychology Practice Where to find Olivia: University of Bath Teamwork in extreme environments: identifying challenges and generating solutions CREST Research Learn more about NDM: NaturalisticDecisionMaking.org Journal of Cognitive Engineering and Decision Making Where to find hosts Brian Moon and Laura Militello: Brian’s website Brian’s LinkedIn Brian’s Twitter Laura’s website Laura’s LinkedIn Laura’s Twitter Timestamps: “Extreme team” research premise [2:30] Forming expedition teams for team research [4:45] Team research data and observations [6:15] Prepping research participants on how to share their data [9:05] Peter describes the background of his award-winning research in expertise-based training [10:10] Explaining the video occlusion method [21:30] How good are experts at articulating their expertise? [27:00] Debate between immersive experience training vs. targeted skill training [31:00] How Olivia got into Naturalistic Decision Making [33:00] Justifying NDM’s unconventional research methods [35:10] Advice for those looking to conduct similar NDM studies [36:00] Olivia's background in extreme environments and what drew her to “extreme team” research [38:15] What "extreme team" research can teach us about how people work together generally [40:45] Applying sports-based NDM research to real life [42:15] Peter compares STEM training to sports training [46:45] None of us are immune, and maybe de-stigmatizing racism will lead more people to confront it in ourselves [53:15] "If both of you could instantly become an expert in something, what would it be?" [56:30]
59:57
June 21, 2020
Episode #8: Interview with Jan Maarten Schraagen
Date: 5/22/2020 Show Description: “Jan Maarten is Principal Scientist at TNO and Professor of Applied Cognitive Psychology at the University of Twente, The Netherlands. His research interests include resilience engineering, team communication processes, and human-machine teaming. He is the lead editor on two influential volumes: Cognitive Task Analysis (2000) and Naturalistic Decision Making and Macrocognition(2008). He is co-editor of the recently released Oxford Handbook of Expertise (2020). He is editor in chief of the Journal of Cognitive Engineering and Decision Making. Dr. Schraagen holds a PhD in Cognitive Psychology from the University of Amsterdam, The Netherlands.” Where to find Jan Maarten: University of Twente TNO LinkedIn JCEDM The Oxford Handbook of Expertise Learn more about NDM: NaturalisticDecisionMaking.org Journal of Cognitive Engineering and Decision Making Where to find hosts Brian Moon and Laura Militello: Brian’s website Brian’s LinkedIn Brian’s Twitter Laura’s website Laura’s LinkedIn Laura’s Twitter Timestamps: What is the first paper you ever published? [2:00] Experience conducting research with children [4:11] Nature of Jan Maarten's 1993 research study on expertise [6:15] Working with Herb Simon at Carnegie Mellon [10:57] What led Jan Maarten to attend the 1994 NDM conference in Dayton [13:00] Discussing the birth and significance of the book "Cognitive Task Analysis" [17:25] Experience and advice for navigating difficult research interviews [20:35] Interviewing technique advice for students [23:52] The most exciting project Jan Maarten is working on right now [27:47] Goals and directions for future work [36:50] What is a "cyber-physical system"? [40:20] Industries that could benefit from an NDM perspective [42:30] Which project has been the most rewarding for you? [47:50] Evaluating the success of Dutch navy training simulations [54:50] One questions that can reveal if someone is an NDM practitioner [57:06] Two truths and a lie [58:30]
01:02:03
June 5, 2020
Episode #7: Interview with Larry Shattuck
Date: 5/15/2020 Show Description: “Colonel Shattuck is Senior Lecturer and Director of the Human Systems Integration Program at the Naval Postgraduate School in Monterey, California. Dr. Shattuck holds a faculty appointment in the Operations Research Department where he teaches human systems integration and human factors engineering. Colonel Shattuck graduated from the United States Military Academy in 1976, and following distinguished service as a signal officer and receiving his PhD from the Ohio State University in Cognitive Engineering, he returned to his alma mater to teach Engineering Psychology until his retirement from the Army in 2005. He has been at NPS since, he co-directs the Human Systems Integration Program. Larry has been an active researcher in the domain of military command and control for nearly two decades. He is unique among his peers in the NDM community for his ability to draw on deep operational experience when studying processes such as how commanders communicate their intent, the manner in which decision makers fuse data in tactical environments, and the ways in which data and information flow through technological system elements to the human agents in that system.” Where to find Larry: Naval Postgraduate School HSI DL Certificate Program HSI DL Master’s Degree Program Learn more about NDM: NaturalisticDecisionMaking.org Journal of Cognitive Engineering and Decision Making Where to find hosts Brian Moon and Laura Militello: Brian’s website Brian’s LinkedIn Brian’s Twitter Laura’s website Laura’s LinkedIn Laura’s Twitter Timestamps: How Larry's military operational experience has informed his research findings [2:20] Making the shift to engineering psychology [7:47] Takeaways from the Army research laboratory's advanced decision architecture program [10:12] Examples of the program's contributions to the Army [13:58] Making progress with NDM solutions within a government context [19:10] Explaining the relationship between NDM and Human Systems Integration [29:07] Making the NDM research process more efficient [34:40] How NDM perspectives have influenced Larry's approach to teaching [38:26] The aspect of Larry's work that has been most rewarding [40:10] Lessons learned from students [43:45] Larry's top three mentors [45:46] Influences outside of NDM [49:25] One question that can determine if someone is an NDM practitioner [51:07] Two truths and a lie [52:08]
55:09
June 2, 2020
Episode #6: Interview with Julie Gore
Date: 5/15/2020 Show Description: “Today we welcome Julie Gore. Julie Gore is a Reader in Organizational Psychology, at the School of Management, University of Bath in the UK. She is a Chartered Psychologist and Fellow of the British Psychological Society. Her research focus is on the psychology of expertise and Naturalistic Decision Making (NDM) across a range of professions working under uncertainty. She is Associate Editor for Journal of Occupational and Organizational Psychology and serves on the boards of the British Journal of Management and Frontiers in Organizational Psychology. Julie is also an academic advisor for Nasdaq’s Behavioural Science Lab. Dr Gore received one of the world’s first NDM PhD degrees in Applied Cognitive Psychology from Oxford Brookes University, UK.” Where to find Julie’s work: The Oxford Handbook of Expertise  The University of Bath  Naturalistic Decision Making and Uncertainty Naturalistic decision making: navigating uncertainty in complex sociotechnical work SPRITE+  Learn more about NDM: NaturalisticDecisionMaking.org Journal of Cognitive Engineering and Decision Making Where to find hosts Brian Moon and Laura Militello: Brian’s website Brian’s LinkedIn Brian’s Twitter Laura’s website Laura’s LinkedIn Laura’s Twitter Timestamps: Experience as one of the first NDM PhD program participants [1:46] How Julie initially heard about NDM [3:03] Julie's PhD research question [3:55] Discoveries made during PhD research [5:18] Advice for young NDM PhD students [6:15] Common barriers students need help managing [8:02] Surprises and concerns about today's generation of NDM researchers [10:10] Examples of PhD students whose perspectives have been transformed by NDM models [12:05] Making space for NDM research papers in journals and publications [14:52] Nature of Julie's work with NASDAQ [16:32] Exciting research on decision-making ethics and accountability in the digital space [19:23] Organizations' and outsiders’ attitudes toward NDM [23:17] Showcasing the utility of NDM methods [25:18] A particularly rewarding project [27:10] An explanation of "adaptive expertise" [29:12] Opportunities to advance NDM in the context of today's novel circumstances [32:37] Three people who influenced Julie's career [33:47] Influences from outside NDM [34:43] Changes in the NDM community [36:35] One question that can determine if someone is an NDM researcher [37:30] Directions for future research [39:37] Two truths and a lie [41:02]
44:09
May 24, 2020
Episode #5: Interview with Robert Hutton
Date: 5/7/2020 Show Description: “Today we welcome our friend, Rob Hutton. Rob is co-founder and director of Trimetis Ltd, a four-person cognitive systems engineering consultancy in Bristol, England. Rob and I started our careers together as young research assistants at Klein Associates in the early 1990s. His thinking contributed to early cognitive task analysis methods and he helped articulate models of macrocognition. Rob is a Fellow of the Chartered Institute of Ergonomics and Human Factors. He is also a part-time lecturer in Nottingham Trent University’s psychology department.” Where to find Robert: Trimetis Nottingham Trent University Learn more about NDM: NaturalisticDecisionMaking.org Journal of Cognitive Engineering and Decision Making Where to find hosts Brian Moon and Laura Militello: Brian’s website Brian’s LinkedIn Brian’s Twitter Laura’s website Laura’s LinkedIn Laura’s Twitter Timestamps: Starting an NDM business in England [1:30] Types of client organizations [3:30] A project that Rob is excited to be working on [6:05] Challenges conveying the value of NDM theory to students [8:45] What’s the craziest situation you’ve found yourself in, in the name of science? [16:40] Challenges of cognitive task analysis field research [23:55] A rewarding impactful project [25:10] Success of Co-authored Applied Cognitive Task Analysis paper [29:10] What is the most valuable proposition that you offer your customers? [29:50] Cultural differences of NDM research in the US vs. the UK [33:05] Who are three people who have influenced your approach? [41:40] What question would you ask someone to determine whether they practice NDM? [46:30] Two truths and a lie [50:00]
56:18
May 19, 2020
Episode #4: Interview with Jennifer Phillips
Date: 5/1/2020 Show Description: “Today we welcome our pal, Jennifer Phillips. Jenni is the CEO of the Cognitive Performance Group, which she cofounded in 2006. Her work focuses expert decision-making, primarily in the military training community. She and her colleagues at CPG have pioneered research into the development of skilled performance, and designed innovation in the areas of decision-centered training and assessment, including the development and application of mastery models. Among her many publications is a chapter in the Oxford Handbook of Expertise exploring mastery models and their value in supporting the acquisition and assessment of expertise.” Learn More About Jenni: Cognitive Performance Group Developing Mastery Models to Support the Acquisition and Assessment of Expertise Learn more about NDM: NaturalisticDecisionMaking.org Journal of Cognitive Engineering and Decision Making Where to find hosts Brian Moon and Laura Militello: Brian’s website Brian’s LinkedIn Brian’s Twitter Laura’s website Laura’s LinkedIn Laura’s Twitter Timestamps: Jenny describes her focus of expertise, including tactical thinking in the marine corps and mastery models [1:30] Jenni breaks down the term “mastery model” and its stages [3:45] Jenni gives a mastery model example from her work with marine corps instructors [6:05] Work on assessment of decision skills, performance rubrics, and the process of adaptability [9:50] Major influences in Jenni’s career in NDM [14:05] Other people and organizations outside the NDM community who have impacted Jenni’s work [16:30] What makes Jenni’s approach and expertise unique in her field [19:15] Challenges and nuances of working in a military environment [21:30] Difficulty getting buy-in to conduct research in law enforcement [23:45] A favorite anecdote from research in IED defeat work [24:45] Some distinct and difficult nuances of IED defeat work in Afghanistan and Iraq  [29:45] Meaning and application of “cognitive fidelity” [32:50] A surprising characteristic of young researchers [35:20] One single question that can determine if someone is an NDM practitioner [39:05] Two truths and a lie [39:45] Excitement about research on making mastery models work at a large scale [42:10]
47:00
May 8, 2020
Episode #3: Interview with Emilie Roth
Date: 4/24/2020 Show Description: “Today we are talking with our friend and colleague, Emilie Roth. I first met Emilie at the second Naturalistic Decision Making meeting in Dayton, OH in 1994, but she had been studying how people manage complexity long before that meeting. In fact, I remember at that meeting thinking: ‘I want to be like her.’ Emilie is one of the people that inspired me to think I really could be a scientist. And I know Emilie has inspired many others over the course of her career. She is one of the architects of the cognitive systems engineering movement. She had an important role in redesigning nuclear power plant control rooms in the wake of Three Mile Island. And that was just the beginning; her contributions have been felt far and wide. She now lives in Palo Alto, CA where she runs Roth Cognitive Engineering.” Where to find Emily: Roth Cognitive Engineering Resources: Oxford Handbook of Expertise Designing collaborative planning systems: Putting Joint Cognitive Systems Principles to Practice Cognitive work analysis Facets of complexity in situated work Learn more about NDM: NaturalisticDecisionMaking.org Journal of Cognitive Engineering and Decision Making Where to find hosts Brian Moon and Laura Militello: Brian’s website Brian’s LinkedIn Brian’s Twitter Laura’s website Laura’s LinkedIn Laura’s Twitter Timestamps: Emily's first published paper [1:30] Events that shifted Emilie’s focus from experimental psychology to NDM [7:30] Developing the observation tools and methods for developing systems of expertise [12:25] Challenges in creating expert decision-making models for nuclear operations at Westinghouse [17:15] Experience navigating a world of engineers as a female psychologist [20:00] The benefits of work culture at Westinghouse [21:45] Observations of railroad industry culture, practices, and informal procedures [23:00] Optimistic outlook on specific research and applications of NDM [28:45] Two things about Emilie’s personal life that others might not know [34:20] Three books that influenced Emilie’s work [38:00] Associative thinking exercise [44:15] Elaborating on automation pros and cons [45:25]
48:03
May 6, 2020
Episode #2: Interview with Robert Hoffman
Show Description: “Robert is a luminary in the NDM community, a widely recognized world leader in cognitive systems engineering and Human-Centered Computing, and a senior member and fellow of numerous international science and engineering societies. Since 1999, he has called the Institute for Human and Machine Cognition his organizational home, and he organized the NDM 6 conference in 2003 in his hometown of Pensacola, FL. He has co-authored and co-edited 18 scholarly books – including two with your hosts! – and is co-author on over 100 publications in peer-reviewed journals. For twenty years, he served as Co-Editor for the Department on Human-Centered Computing in IEEE: Intelligent Systems. He was a co-founder of The Journal of Cognitive Engineering and Decision Making, a major publication outlet for NDM research.” Where to find Robert: Institute for Human and Machine Cognition Books by Robert: Minding the weather: How expert forecasters think.  Cognitive Systems Engineering: The Future for a Changing World.  Perspectives on Cognitive Task Analysis: Historical Origins and Modern Communities of Practice. Applied concept mapping: Capturing, analyzing, and organizing knowledge. Learn more about NDM: NaturalisticDecisionMaking.org Journal of Cognitive Engineering and Decision Making Where to find hosts Brian Moon and Laura Militello: Brian’s website Brian’s LinkedIn Brian’s Twitter Laura’s website Laura’s LinkedIn Laura’s Twitter Timestamps: Robert's first published paper [1:45] Event’s that led to Robert’s interest in NDM [5:15] Robert’s shift from psychometrics [14:00] NDM research project that Robert is most excited about [17:00] The falsifiability of NDM and research limitations surrounding the coronavirus [22:40] Shortcomings of graduate psychology and computer programs [25:30] Advice for people interested in exploring the NDM field [27:45] Two experiences and the lessons they imparted about eliciting expert knowledge [29:45] Some things about Robert that others might not know [35:30] Reasons why Robert loves football so much [37:45] Athletes and cognitive task analysis [40:17] Word association exercise [42:00]
44:54
April 28, 2020
Episode #1: Interview with NDM Pioneer Gary Klein
Show Description: “Today we are talking with my friend and business partner, Gary Klein. Gary is one of the pioneers of the Naturalistic Decision Making movement. He is known for moving the study of decision making out of the laboratory and into the wild. In 1989, he invited a small group of international researchers to meet in Dayton, OH to talk about decision making in natural environments and how to study this phenomenon. It was that group of 32 researchers who came up with the term Naturalistic Decision Making. Gary's many contributions include the recognition-primed decision model that has greatly influenced how we all think about decision making and expertise. He and his colleagues developed early cognitive task analysis methods that have been a core set of tools for studying decision making in real world environments. He has mentored countless researchers, including both of us. Gary now lives in Boston, MA. He runs a company called ShadowBox LLC, and is also part-owner and advisor to Applied Decision Science, LLC.” Where to find Gary ShadowBox LLC Website LinkedIn Psychology Today Column Learn more about NDM: Website: https://naturalisticdecisionmaking.org/ Where to find hosts Brian Moon and Laura Militello: Brian’s website Brian’s LinkedIn Brian’s Twitter Laura’s website Laura’s LinkedIn Laura’s Twitter Resources mentioned during the show: Sources of Power by Gary Klein Seeing What Others Don't: The Remarkable Ways We Gain Insights by Gary Klein Timestamps: Gary's first published paper [1:36] How Gary got started in Naturalistic Decision Making [4:48] Gary's research on Israeli aircraft maintainers' coping methods during Yom Kippur War [7:55] Current NDM-related research that Gary is most excited about [12:10] Two of the biggest mistakes of Gary’s career and how he recovered from them [14:53] Gary shares his favorite research stores: -A firefighter whose quick thinking saved several of his colleague’s lives [22:53] -A British naval officer whose quick, life-saving decision was at first mistaken for ESP [28:00] -A neonatal nurse's expert instincts helped save a baby's life [33:33] Suggestions for how the NDM community can help during today's coronavirus crisis 37:15] Where Gary would prioritize funding and research investment right now [44:05] Associative thinking exercise [46:18] How the scientific method is “often a trap” that can limit researchers' learning opportunities [48:55]
53:47
April 20, 2020