Skip to main content
Of Course I'm Not OK: The Podcast

Of Course I'm Not OK: The Podcast

By Katie Morell & Karen Hawkins
Hosted by Karen Hawkins and Katie Morell, writers & longtime friends, this podcast explores mental health, creativity, & coping with quarantine. The goal: to help people feel less alone, share stores, & create connection.
Listen on
Where to listen
Breaker Logo


Google Podcasts Logo

Google Podcasts

Overcast Logo


Pocket Casts Logo

Pocket Casts

RadioPublic Logo


Spotify Logo


Currently playing episode

56. Pop Culture Palate Cleanser (with Brianna Wellen)

Of Course I'm Not OK: The Podcast

56. Pop Culture Palate Cleanser (with Brianna Wellen)

Of Course I'm Not OK: The Podcast

60. Community
What does it mean to cultivate community? How are we all thinking about community as we enter our second COVID winter? In this week's episode, Karen & Katie chat about how being in community positively impacts their lives, and how there are a myriad of ways to think about the topic. The show also starts off with Katie's story about babysitting a cat named Guillermo.  Thanks for listening, Enjoy!
October 25, 2021
59. Quelling Negative Self-Talk with G.L.A.D
Hello, Listeners! Karen & Katie have a great episode for you this week, one about the acronym G.L.A.D. Developed by mindfulness expert Donald Altman, the acronym is designed to help reduce ruminating thoughts that can lead to negative self-talk.  G = Gratitude  L = Learning  A = Achievement D = Delight The pair talk about how to use this tool and how it can help each one of us live happier lives. They also talk about Karen's fabulous new glasses, and Katie's fun time visiting San Francisco.  Resources from today:  - Check out this article all about G.L.A.D. -
October 18, 2021
58. Stopping The World
Welcome back, Listeners! After a few weeks off, this week Karen and Katie discuss the concept of 'stopping the world' for major events in our lives. While most of the time those events tend to be negative, the pair makes the case for taking a stopping-the-world level of downtime whenever we need it. Karen makes the astute declaration that it is often a choice to keep going when we know we need to stop (HELLO MIC DROP). We hope you enjoy - thank you for listening!
October 11, 2021
57. Time Abundance & Time Scarcity
Inspired by a recent tweet by Adam Grant, this week's episode centers around time abundance and time scarcity. What are these things, you ask?? Karen & Katie dive into the research-backed amount of time that is required to feel a general sense of well-being and the amount of time that adds stress to our lives.  Enjoy and thanks for listening! Resources for this episode:  - Check out Adam Grant's work: - Check out What Fresh Hell Is this? By Heather Corinna:
September 20, 2021
56. Pop Culture Palate Cleanser (with Brianna Wellen)
Oh, Listeners, you are in for such a FUN episode! Today, Karen & Katie welcome back the fabulous Brianna Wellen (also known as one of the most fun people on the planet) for an in-depth convo about what to watch and listen to right now. The trio end up talking about all-things pop culture past and present (heeelllooo 'Battle of the Network Stars'). They also discuss how to pair alcoholic beverages with shows and what to watch when you want to be sad, happy, and angry.  So many resources for this one - hope you enjoy! **Connect with Brianna on Twitter:  **And on IG: - Tuca & Bertie: - Impeachment: American Crime Story: - Bachelor In Paradise: - What We Do In The Shadows: - Battle Of The Network Stars: - Bo Burnham INSIDE: - Crazy Ex Girlfriend: - (PODCAST) Urgent Care with Joel Kim Booster and Mitra Jouhari: - Schitt's Creek: - Little Shop of Horrors: - Bob's Burgers: - Sharp Objects: - Happiest Season: - He's All That:
September 13, 2021
55. Not Dreaming of Labor (Day)
Happy Labor Day, Listeners! Today, Karen and Katie discuss their thoughts around Labor Day, what Labor Day means in 2021, and how people can find their passions in life. Thanks for listening!
September 6, 2021
54. MINI POD: Delta Real Talk
Hellloooo Listeners - we hope you are all doing well this week. In today's episode, Karen and Katie get real in how they are feeling about recent news/world events, including the current Delta spike. What ensues is a mini pod (less than 30 mins) episode that covers how they are coping with everything and their thoughts around watching/listening to shows/music that remind them of the early days of the pandemic. The pair also injects levity into the show as they brainstorm co-founding an escort service(!!) and reminiscing about fabulous SNL skits.  Thanks for listening - enjoy! Resources from today's episode:  - Check out the 'Delta, Delta, Delta' SNL skit from the early 90s! - The Spy, a Netflix limited series starring Sacha Baron Cohen, is INCREDIBLE: - Make sure to stop by The Chicago Reader's new site! - And our pod's new website, too! 
August 30, 2021
53. The Case Against Multitasking
Get ready, Listeners, because Karen & Katie get INTO it in this episode on multitasking. The duo chat about a wide variety of topics, triggers, and tips to help others who also struggle with the issue. They talk about everything from how to set boundaries with others to help in the quest for mono-tasking to strategies they use when they realize they've been multitasking. We hope you enjoy this one! Resources from today's episode:  - Grab a copy of Rachel Rogers' book "We Should All Be Millionaires" - - Check out Mac & Cheese Productions' (Saya Hillman's company) Cross It Off Club: - Try Caveday! - Looking for an amazing comedian to follow? Try Hannah Gatsby: - And take a look at our new site!
August 23, 2021
52. Cultivating Spaciousness, Teaching Dharma, & Pursing Creative Endeavors (with Prajna Sparks' co-hosts Dr. Tania Israel & Karma Yeshe Chödrön)
Listeners - great news! The great Dr. Tania Israel is BAAACCCCKKKK and chatting with Karen and Katie for this week's pod. What's more: she's brought along her dear friend Karma Yeshe Chödrön to talk all about their podcast Prajna Sparks. The pair started their podcast around the same time as Karen and Katie did, so in today's podcast they discuss the creative process, the mental health benefits of being creative, and how wonderful it is to pursue projects with friends. Yet there is SO MUCH MORE to this conversation. Yeshe explains her path from litigator to Buddhist translator and teacher, and how she and Tania are putting something gorgeous into the world in every episode of Prajna Sparks with Dharma talks, original songs (lyrics written by Tania), and guided meditations.  The group also discusses meditation, how to talk about the issue of vaccinations without getting triggered(!!), and more. We really hope you enjoy this one.  Resources for today's episode:  - Check out the Prajna Sparks podcast on any podcast platform: - Make sure to listen to Episode 11 of Prajna Sparks for Meditation Myths: - Check out the new Chicago Reader website - huge congrats to Karen and her team!
August 16, 2021
51. Getting To The ROOT Of Our Feelings (+ A Chat About ANGER)
Oooh, Listeners, you are in for a TREAT today! In this week's episode, Karen and Katie chat about how it can be challenging to excavate the WHY behind our feelings in any given moment. And then the pair go into an in-depth discussion on anger (it is JUICY!). The convo is also peppered with fun stories about Karen as a wine competition judge and Katie's recent success at manifesting a housing swap. You won't want to miss this one.  Enjoy and thanks for listening - we appreciate all of you!
August 9, 2021
50. Our LIVE One-Year Anniversary Show!
Woot Woot! Today's episode is the recording of our LIVE one-year anniversary show, which took place on Tuesday, July 27, 2021.  Huge thanks to everyone who joined and to everyone listening now! Karen & Katie started off the show with a general catch up and love letter to the great Simone Biles, then went into a Q&A portion of the event with the live audience, and the show ended with a lively trivia game.  Enjoy!
August 2, 2021
49. The Case For Taking A Vacation Right Now
Hello, Listeners! Karen & Katie are so excited today because TOMORROW (Tuesday, July 27th) is their LIVE (on Zoom) One-Year Anniversary Show! Wanna join them? Please do - just click on the link the Instagram bio for this pod (@not_ok_pod) and purchase one ticket for your household for $25. They can't wait to see you tomorrow.  On today's show, the pair chat about their feelings about the new COVID variant news and make a strong case for taking vacation right now (even if it is just to take a prolonged lunch break and look out at some nature). The mental health benefits cannot be underestimated and both Karen and Katie discuss how recently taking time off has helped them in a myriad of ways.  Looking for some cool hiking trails in your area, or on vacay? Check out the AllTrails app - it's free to download: Have a fabulous week, and thank you for listening! xoxo
July 26, 2021
48. Coffee Talk & Intuition
On today's episode, Karen and Katie get into a deep conversation about how quitting caffeine has helped them in many aspects of their lives. They then dovetail that topic into the topic of intuition - something that is louder for both of them since quitting coffee - and discuss the importance of listening to one's deep wise voice inside.  Resources from today's episode:  - Check out the Shattered Glass podcast episode with Oprah - it is EXCELLENT:
July 19, 2021
47. Turning A Crowd Corner
Happy Monday, Listeners, and a HUGE HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO THE ONE AND ONLY KAREN HAWKINS! Our brilliant co-host, Karen, is celebrating another amazing year around the sun, and we couldn't be happier that she was born.  This week, Karen & Katie discuss their feelings on turning, what they call, "a crowd corner." As the world opens up, they are finding themselves more and more OK with socializing. Katie discusses her recent journey to a family wedding and then a vacation in Washington (quite a bit was involved with each trip and she goes into great detail on the ups and downs), and Karen talks about how she is regulating her entrance back into society and introduces the concept of pacing herself when newly seeing people.  Resources from this episode:  - Check out Getaway, a company that offers beautiful, digital-free cabins near many major metro areas: - Take a peek at the tattoo artist that did Katie's most recent tattoos:
July 12, 2021
46. Big Emotions
Happy Monday, Listeners! This week, Karen and Katie are talking about how BIG EMOTIONS can creep into our minds when we least expect them and how to accept them and allow them to move through our bodies. Katie talks about a rental car meltdown she recently experienced (looking at you,!), and Karen shares how framing situations as temporary often helps her calm down when feelings get heated.  Hope you all are having a good July - thanks for listening! P.S. We are having a Live One Year Anniversary Show (on ZOOM) on Tuesday, July 27th! Tickets are $25/household and you all are invited! Snag your tickets with the link in our IG bio (@not_ok_pod) or on Katie's IG bio (@katie.i.morell). 
July 5, 2021
Happy PRIDE, Everyone!  In today's episode, Karen and Katie chat about Pride weekend and the importance of the worldwide festivities every June. They also talk about the concept of pride in ourselves, and being proud for who we are at at whatever stage of life we find ourselves in.  BONUS: Karen & Katie will be hosting a LIVE SHOW to mark this podcast's one year anniversary on Tuesday, July 27th! The pair is SO excited about this and encourage everyone to purchase a ticket ($25/household) with the link on @not_ok_pod's IG and Katie's IG @katie.i.morell.  Thanks for listening!
June 28, 2021
44. Aging
Hello Listeners and thanks for tuning into this week's installment of Of Course I'm Not OK! Today, Karen & Katie chat about aging. They discuss Katie's recent 40th birthday - with all of it's ups and, well, not so great moments - and talk about how aging is actually a wonderful thing that they both feel grateful for (well, most of the time).  Have a good week!
June 21, 2021
43. Reunions & Caffeine Withdrawal
Welcome back, Listeners! We are so glad you're here. In today's episode, Karen & Katie chat about their recent reunions with family and how they feel about easing back into socializing. They then go deep into the emotional, social, physical, and societal implications of drinking caffeine and also quitting it.  This episode is a ton of fun - hope you enjoy! Resources:  - Check out Ellen Forney's graphic novel MARBLES here:
June 14, 2021
42. Living A Life Of Yes With Saya Hillman
Get ready for an epic episode! This week, Karen and Katie welcome Saya (pronounced Sigh-A) Hillman, a.k.a. 'The Accessible Oprah,' for a far-reaching and very real conversation about living what Saya calls 'A Life Of Yes.' As founder and CEO of Mac & Cheese Productions, a Chicago-based lifestyle business that creates events (and many other things) for its clients, Saya explains how getting fired in 2004 was one of the best things that could have happened to her. Since then, she's built a thriving business and is dedicated to living life on her terms. In today's conversation, Saya suggests writing bulleted lists of what you want, what you don't want, who you are, and what you want to become. And to keep writing and not to self-censor! There are SO MANY nuggets of wisdom that you may want to listen a second time. Enjoy and thanks for listening. We will be taking a break and will be back with regularly scheduled programming on Monday, June 14th. Happy Summer! Resources from today's episode: - Mac & Cheese Productions: - Saya's blog post about her Selfish Sabbatical: - Saya's blog post about the end of her sabbatical: - Saya's TedX talk: How To Design A Life Of Yes! - Saya's blog post 'How Do You Think I Make Money?'
May 24, 2021
41. MINI POD: Daydreaming As A Manifestation Tool
Welcome to our first MINI POD, Listeners! In today's 15-minute episode, Karen & Katie chat about how daydreaming is a form of manifestation. They encourage everyone to be open to the energy of dreaming as a self-care practice, and to welcome any ideas and feelings that come up.  Enjoy & thank you for listening! Resources:  - Check out Anna Peterson's art at Amejko Artistry: - You can find Anna on IG, too:
May 17, 2021
40. Emotional Pie Charts, Vacation Anxiety, & Reopening Feels
Happy Mid-May, Listeners! in today's episode, Karen & Katie chat about a variety of topics, starting with their new practice of texting pie charts of their emotions to each other. The pair highly recommends others do the same (listeners, send us your pie charts!), and talk about the mental health benefits of the exercise. They then talk a bit about the anxiety they feel about going on vacation right now, and some worried feelings around cities reopening.  Thanks for listening - enjoy!
May 10, 2021
39. Languishing
Welcome to today's episode on languishing, inspired by the viral piece by psychologist Adam Grant in The New York Times!  Karen & Katie GET INTO IT when talking about the concept of languishing, which Grant refers to as the "neglected middle child of mental health" - basically the feeling that isn't exactly depression but isn't, as he says, "flourishing," either. The pair discuss how common this feeling (often referred to just as "blah" or "I don't want to do anything today" or "I'd rather stay in my PJs and watch Outlander on a loop while eating Cheetos" or "I'd rather get a root canal than look at my Slack messages for a single minute").  If you can relate, this episode is for you.  Karen & Katie also talk about how they are "flow partners" (a concept that really helps them battle feelings associated with languishing). They lament the number of tabs they have open on their browsers at once, and talk, in-depth, about the concept of choice and how many long-term relationships are seen like Supreme Court appointments (MIC DROP RIGHT THERE).  Thank you for listening - we appreciate each and every one of you.  Resources from today's episode:  - Adam Grant's piece on languishing: - Our Body Love episode with Dr. Renee Englen: - Dr. Tania Israel's podcast Prajna Sparks: - Ann Friedman's weekly newsletter: - The podcast Call Your Girlfriend:
May 3, 2021
38. Erotica & Creativity with Rachel Kramer Bussel
What a treat! In today's episode, Karen & Katie welcome the amazing Rachel Kramer Bussel, a wildly creative and kind person who is also the editor of the long-running Best Women's Erotica Of The Year anthologies. The trio cover a TON of topics, including erotica, if Rachel ever gets sick of writing/editing sex topics(!!), talking dogs, jigsaw puzzles, mental health, YouTube stars, and upcoming books we don't want to miss.  Thanks for listening - enjoy! Resources from today's episode:  - Rachel Kramer Bussel's website: - Rachel's Twitter: - Rachel's IG: - Best Women's Erotica IG: - Feminist Erotica Podcast: - Feminist Erotica Podcast IG: - Rachel on the Feminist Erotica Podcast: - "Quickie" on Feminist Erotica of Rachel's writing: - Call Your Mother sitcom: - Kopp Sisters Book Series (WWI women): - The Personal Librarian (coming out June 29, 2021): - How Stella Learned to Talk: - Mark Rober (YouTuber - glitter bombs): - Mark Rober's IG: - Karen Puzzles (YouTube account of a woman that does tons of jigsaw puzzles):
April 26, 2021
37. Coming in HOT for Season 4
Welcome to this week's therapy session with Karen & Kate! It is also the first episode of Season 4 - woot woot! On today's show, the duo talk about how they are feeling about the newest vaccine news, what the ethics are around talking to your employer about the vaccine, and then go deep into a therapy session. Topics covered in the session include how to stay in your lane and not involve yourself (or get triggered by) someone else's drama and asking the universe what THE DEAL IS this week.  Enjoy & thanks for listening! Resources from today's episode:  - Check out Deep Concentration meditations on the Calm App: - Take a second to watch Calm's Tamara Levitt (one of our dream guests) on The Ellen Show:
April 19, 2021
36. Radical Imagination For The Aftertimes
Happy Vaccination Week! In today's episode, Karen & Katie chat about how they both got their vaccines this week, their feelings around going back into social situations (from two-person coffee dates to 500-person weddings), and both agree that the so-called 'aftertimes' are going to be filled with awkwardness.  How can any convo go beyond the 60-min Zoom limit?  How do we end dinner parties without 'leave meeting' buttons?  The pair then seamlessly segues into a conversation around RADICAL IMAGINATION. What is the most true and beautiful (to borrow a phrase from the great Glennon Doyle) version we can see for our lives in a post-COVID world? Karen & Katie let their imaginations run wild. What ensues is a real-time strategy & manifestation session for the ages, complete with a podcast empire, private jets, and champagne slides at the office.  Thanks for listening - enjoy! Resources from today's episode:  - Scalawag Magazine: - CheapOldHouses Instagram:
April 12, 2021
35. Pop Culture Brain Candy (with Brianna Wellen)
Today's episode is SO MUCH FUN! Karen & Katie decide to add a little alcohol to the mix as they welcome Brianna Wellen, Chicago Reader's culture editor (and all around fabulous human), to talk about the best escapism TV shows and movies right now. OMG the list is incredible (see below for links to everything talked about).  The trio covers topics far beyond pop culture, and get deep into a therapy chat and even rattle off some of their hall-pass celebs.  Resources from today's episode:  - Follow Brianna on Twitter: - Follow Brianna's cats on IG: - Check out Chicago Reader! - The Real Housewives of Atlanta: - That's Messed Up: An SVU Podcast: - Meshell Ndegeocello's Twitter (one of Karen's hall passes) - - TikTok (yes, it's an app!) - Little Shop of Horrors: - Palm Springs on Hulu: - Awkwafina is Nora From Queens: - Detroiters: - I Think You Should Leave: - Work In Progress: - Shrill (on Hulu) - Sex Education: - The Prom (on Netflix) - Never Have I Ever: - Moxie!
April 5, 2021
34. Restaurants Right Now (with Food People author & photographer Kristen Loken)
For today's episode, Karen & Katie chat with Kristen Loken, author and photographer of the new book Food People Are The Best People! The trio discuss how restaurants are handling COVID, feedback from chefs, things that are working in the industry, and things that are super hard at the moment. Kristen talks about her gorgeous book (OMG it is A-MAZING), and offers super helpful advice on how people can be creative (and find their purpose) even if they are feeling exhausted by the pandemic.  Resources from today's episode:  - Kristen's book Food People Are The Best People (enter code NOTOK for free shipping at checkout!) - Kristen's IG: - No Kid Hungry (amazing charity that helps fund school lunches; Kristen is giving a portion of the proceeds of the book to them) -
March 29, 2021
33. Easing Back Into Life As We Knew It
As news of increased vaccine availability hits the airwaves, Karen & Katie are feeling a lot of feelings.  Today, the pair talks about their considerations (and anxieties) around easing back into socializing. What does it mean? Where will they draw the line? How will they talk to people they haven't seen in more than a year?  From actionable tips on how to set boundaries to living by the mantra "What would Dr. Fauci Do?", this episode covers it all. Bonus: Karen & Katie start the pod with a very fun trip down memory lane, discussing everything from 80s fashion to their real feelings about Doc Martens.  Thanks for listening! 
March 22, 2021
32. Pandemic Grief & the COVID Anniversary (with writer Hope Edelman)
Has anyone else been feeling a bit low lately? If so, the reason may surprise you. According to writer and grief expert Hope Edelman, many people experience a "dip in functioning" around the one-year anniversary of a trauma or loss. This week marks one year since COVID descended on the U.S., and in today's episode, Karen & Katie chat with Hope about the concept of Pandemic Grief.  The conversation is fascinating; Hope covers how culture in the U.S. over the last 150 years has changed around grief and how the one-year anniversary may be impacting us in different ways than any other trauma in our lives. Huge bonus: She also offers advice on how listeners can deal with and process their grief.  Resources from today's episode:  - Hope's op-ed on pandemic grief in The Washington Post (A MUST READ) - - Connect with Hope on:  Her website: Instagram: Twitter: Facebook: - Check out her community for Motherless Daughters: (and the upcoming Mother's Day event - free for all and scheduled for the day before Mother's Day this year)
March 15, 2021
31. International Women's Day
Happy International Women's Day, Listeners! In today's episode, Karen & Katie chat about a wide range of topics relating to this special day. The pair touches on the many (MANY) real challenges that women face, and highlight why it's so important to appreciate the women in our lives.  Thanks for listening - Enjoy!
March 8, 2021
30. Body Love Masterclass with Dr. Renee Englen
Anyone feeling some sort of way about their bodies these days (or every day)??? If so, this episode is for you. Today, Karen & Katie chat with the incredible Dr. Renee Englen, Northwestern psychology professor & leading body acceptance researcher about ALL things related to body image. 🎙 The conversation covers everything from if you should ever talk about someone’s body (answer: no) to how people are coping with body image issues in quarantine to actionable strategies on how all of us can feel better about our bodies today. 🎙 Even with such a serious topic, Renee adds levity & the ensuing convo is sprinkled with humor and tons of lightness. 🎙 Enjoy & thanks for listening! 🎙 Resources from today's episode:  - Dr. Renee Englen’s book Beauty Sick:
March 1, 2021
29. Laughter
Thank goodness for laughter! In today’s episode, Karen & Katie muse about the benefits of cracking up and discuss their go-to strategies when they need a laugh. The pair also officially launches a movement towards a 3-day workweek (LEAN INTO THAT) & give a shout out to Caroline for coming up with the best phrase of the 21st century: “This is my pandemic.” Words to live by, folks. Thanks for listening! Resources from today’s episode:  Dr. Tania Israel's YouTube video of her singing the Intersectionality Song to Karen & Karen: COMEDY SPECIALS NOT TO MISS - Ronny Chieng special: - Ali Wong's special Baby Cobra: Ali's special Hard Knock Wife: - Wanda Sykes special Not Normal: - Hannah Gadsby: Nanette - and her special Douglas: - SNL's Zillow commercial:
February 22, 2021
28. Comparison: The Joy Thief
Today's episode is inspired by Teddy Roosevelt's famous quote: "Comparison is the thief of joy." (HELLO REALNESS!) Karen & Katie chat about how they both struggle with comparing themselves to others. Karen shares the inspiring story of her experience participating in the AIDS Ride, and realizing that (even though she was passed by some hot shot 80-year-olds) it was "her ride” and not a competition with impressive octogenarians. Katie shares a similar story about an experience at a triathlon, the pair talk about how much they love Cheetos, and discuss the importance of celebrating oneself. Resources from today's episode:  - Check out this fabulous Psychology Today article on comparison: - Make sure to watch Embrace, the documentary: documentary:
February 15, 2021
Surprise Bonus: Dr. Tania Israel Sings an Original Song about Intersectionality!
Today we have a special surprise for you! Our amazing guest Dr. Tania Israel (Ep. 7 & 27) wrote a song about intersectionality to the tune of the Schoolhouse Rock song “Interjections!” Take a listen & reach out to Dr. Israel if you know any illustrators! 🎙 - The original "Interjections!" from Schoolhouse Rock: - Dr. Tania Israel's podcast Prajna Sparks:
February 10, 2021
27. Unity (Dr. Tania Israel RETURNS!)
This week’s episode is a MUST LISTEN. One of Karen & Katie’s favorite guests, Dr. Tania Israel, returns to talk about unity. The discussion covers everything from how to talk with people across the aisle to how many of us could benefit from rethinking our news consumption to real talk about anger around politics. 🎙 This episode is like listening to a therapy session. Very difficult topics, no punches pulled, & tons of actionable takeaways by the brilliant Dr. Israel. 🎙 Thanks for listening!! 🎙 Resources from today’s episode: 🎙 - Connect with Dr. Tania Israel on IG: and Twitter: - Beyond Your Bubble - Dr. Tania Israel: - Beyond Your Bubble Workshops! - Braver Angels: - Living Room Conversations: - AOC's IG Live:
February 8, 2021
26. Embracing Boredom
Anyone else bored right about now? In today's episode, Karen & Katie discuss how they are dealing with their post-inauguration boredom, and how feelings of boredom can masquerade as feelings of depression(!!). The pair also talk about inflatable hot tubs, Rent the Runway experiences, and how boredom can seep into long-term relationships (HELLO).  Sending you all love for a good week! xoxo
February 1, 2021
25. Inauguration Hangover (Season 3 Kickoff!)
YAY & OOF! In today's episode, Karen & Katie are embracing the concept that "both things can be true" of many situations by explaining their mixed feelings about the beginning of the Biden Administration. They are THRILLED that 45 is out of office, yet both experienced the same complete exhaustion (and COVID scare) on the day of the inauguration. If you felt this way, please know that you are not alone! The pair talks about everything from eye stabbing to cat purring to shaking as a way to relive trauma responses.  Enjoy!
January 25, 2021
24. Escapism (Season 2 Finale!)
Happy Martin Luther King, Jr. Day, Listeners! This week, Karen & Katie start the pod by talking a bit about their anxiety around Wednesday's inauguration day (if you'd like to skip that and go right into our topic for the week, fast forward to roughly 11 minutes in). After airing their worries, they switch gears entirely and talk about some of the ways they like to indulge in escapism activities. Get ready to hear about steamy sex - on TV and in books, love for Pinterest, family room scavenger hunts, and more. Bottom line: We strongly endorse any brand of escapism that feels good to you & doesn't hurt yourself or anyone else. Do the thing! #notokpod Resources from this episode:  - Article in Rebellious Magazine about virtual events for MLK Day: - Airbnb Experiences: - Feminist Erotica Podcast: - Pink Slip, by Katrina Jackson:
January 18, 2021
23. Bringing Back The Mental Health Day
In today's episode, Karen & Katie discuss the importance of taking mental health days off from work - especially after last week's batshit news from Washington, D.C. The pair talk about the importance of paying attention to your body/mind & taking mental health days whenever you need them (your email will still be there when you get back!), & they get excited about the concept of creating permission slips to give to bosses.  If you'd like us to write YOU a permission slip, reach out on Instagram or Twitter - we are happy to offer this as a free service! Sending you all relaxing energy and peace - enjoy!
January 11, 2021
22. Lessons We're Bringing Into The New Year
Happy New Year, Listeners! In today's episode, Karen & Katie chat about lessons from 2020 that they are intentionally bringing into 2021. Saying yes to saying no (without explanation)! Boundaries on time & space! Not projecting! Being intentional with our energies! TRUSTING OUR BODIES! Katie talks about being hopeful for the New Year, while Karen expresses a little more trepidation, & the pair agree that both feelings can be true at the same time.  For today's sponsor, Katie is advertising her Joy & Vulnerability Virtual Writing Workshops (this is a real sponsor, not a spoof). Her upcoming workshop (for womxn only) is slated for Jan. 15, 2021 - click here for tickets:  And for information on her other workshops, check out her site: Enjoy!
January 4, 2021
21. 2020 Time Capsule
If you had to bottle up a few items/experiences/memories from 2020 to open in future, what would they be? In today's episode, Karen & Katie celebrate the last week of 2020 (YAY!!) by talking about what they would put in their 2020 time capsules. Thank you, Dear Listeners, for joining us on the crazy rollercoaster that was this year. We look forward to doing more episodes in 2021! Wishing you all peace & health! xoxo Karen & Katie
December 28, 2020
20. Embrace Your Unique Gifts For The Hell Of It
Happy Christmas week, Listeners! In today’s episode, Karen & Katie discuss how important for us all to embrace our unique gifts (double-entendre-week-of-holiday-alert!). Interested in drawing? What about painting or dancing or collecting sticks that are no longer than 3 inches? Or diving deep into the history of truffle pigs and their plight during WWII? Whatever your interest/passion, this episode is designed to inspire you to go after it, and to do it for the hell of it (just say no to traditional outcomes!). Enjoy! Resources referred to in this episode: - Calm Master Class with Elizabeth Gilbert: - Happiest Season on Hulu: - Gretchen Rubin of The Happiness Project: - Chanel Miller, illustrator & author of ‘Know My Name’ - Mario Lopez as Colonel Sanders (WHAT) in ‘A Recipe for Seduction’
December 21, 2020
19. Showing Up For Ourselves & Others Right Now
In this time of socially-distanced everything, today Karen & Katie discuss how to show up for family & friends when we can’t just bop over for a physical hug. The pair share strategies that are working for them in their communities, & also stress the importance of how to show up for ourselves (such a vital-yet-almost-always-overlooked topic!). How do you show up for your people & yourself right now? Shoot us an email at or message us on Twitter/IG (@notokpod). Thanks, Friends!
December 14, 2020
18. The Power of Rituals (Even in Quarantine)
Happy Monday, Listeners! In today’s episode, Karen & Katie discuss rituals – how they are being performed right now (funerals, birthdays, you name it), the brain science behind them, & how creating daily rituals can help us stay mentally sane during this time. Karen shares the story of her pricey visit to the vet, Katie rants about a recent debacle at the DMV, & the pair muse about the power of daily affirmations to help us all feel better. Thanks for listening – Enjoy!
December 7, 2020
17. Creating Space For Joy & Gratitude
Are you feeling joy right now but afraid to admit it with so many challenges facing the world? If so, you aren't alone! In this week's episode, Karen & Katie make a case for the importance of embracing joy (even in the face of suffering), the connections between optimism and gratitude, the ways in which gratitude changes our brains (WHOA), and are visited by future President Kamala Harris. Whoop! Whoop! Enjoy Friends, and thanks for listening! We will be back Dec. 7, 2020 with a new episode.  Happy Thanksgiving! Resources for today's episode:  - Call Your Girlfriend: - Shine Theory: - How Gratitude Changes You and Your Brain: - WTF with Marc Maron (interviewing Michael J. Fox) - - The Optimist's Manifesto: - Shawn Achor's Masterclass on Calm "Discovering Happiness" -
November 23, 2020
16. Sanity-Saving Tips For Winter (with Writer & Editor Kate Silver)
Wondering how you're going to stay sane during this quarantine-heavy winter? Join the club! Thankfully, in today's podcast, Karen & Katie chat with the incredible Kate Silver, a writer and editor in Chicago, about her plans for a mentally-healthy winter. The trio also chat about found joys in the pandemic and the concept of creativity right now. What's more: our sponsors DELIVER this week - make sure to take note of all of the fabulous folks who are supporting us - thank you, Folks! Resources for this episode:  - Kate Silver: - Matt Villano's story 'How to Decline Thanksgiving in the Name of COVID"
November 16, 2020
15. Self-Care
Phew, what a week! In today's episode, Karen & Katie discuss how they were doing during the anxiety-ridden election week, what self-care practices helped them most, & ruminate on the concept of owning, without apology, whatever makes them feel good. Karen sends gratitude to the original cast of Hamilton, & Katie admits to possibly creating a super spreader event over Halloween.  Resources from this episode - Stephen Colbert's monologue on Nov. 5, 2020: - Take a Break, song from Hamilton: - Calm app (check out the #Spark section for Dr. Tania Israel's talk!) - Check out Dr. Tania Israel's book 'Beyond Your Bubble'
November 9, 2020
14. Batlight Activism (w/Tamara Lefcowitz & Randie Pearson of United Steelworkers Union)
Politics & voting & run-ins with the Secret Service, OH MY! In today's pre-election episode, Karen & Katie talk with the incredible Tamara Lefcowitz & Randie Pearson, two members of the United Steelworkers Union, about the 'batlight tour' that has been sweeping the nation. Ever since September, Tamara, Randie, & two other female Union members have been partaking in a road show where they shine massive 'Biden Harris 2020' lights onto buildings. Their effort gained massive attention in mid-October when a light was seen projected onto Chicago's Trump Tower, above the TRUMP sign (Twitter blew up within minutes). In today’s episode, Tamara & Randie offer a behind-the-scenes look at the ‘batlight tour,’ explain their harrowing run-ins with the Secret Service, & offer advice on how to stay active in politics well after election day. Resources from today’s episode: - USW Bat Light on Twitter: @USWBat - Tamara Lefcowitz on Twitter: @TLefcowitz - Randie Pearson on Twitter: @RandiePearson - Want to talk with your government official? Call the United States Capitol switchboard: 202-224-3121 - Looking to be a poll worker? Check out Power The Polls - Check out the Doomscrolling Reminder Lady on Twitter: @karenkho
November 2, 2020
13. Season 2 Kickoff & Topic Smorgasbord
After three weeks away, Karen & Katie are BACK with Season 2 of Of Course I’m Not OK. In today’s episode, they unveil this project as a podcast (vs. an audio project), chat about topics they’ll be covering in this season, & introduce some very exciting sponsors. Enjoy & thanks for listening!
October 26, 2020
12. Fighting Perfection & Doing The Thing (Season 1 Finale!)
It’s our Season 1 Finale! In this week's episode, Karen & Kate reflect on the journey of starting this Audio Project, things they learned, & topics they were too afraid to discuss (sex, for one!). They talk about their process & comment on how wonderful it has been to just hit "play" & bust any perfectionism mindsets by trusting their creative processes. The pair also makes compelling cases for sponsorships from both and Subaru. Of Course I'm Not OK will be back with Season 2 on Oct. 19! Resources from this episode: - Check out Esther Perel’s work around intimacy/sex in quarantine (and her many amazing books) - For more sex talk, make sure to subscribe to the podcast Feminist Erotica:
October 5, 2020
11. Mental Health Master Class (with Naiylah Warren, LMFT)
Get ready to take notes! On this week's episode, Karen & Katie do a mental health deep dive with Brooklyn, N.Y.-based Naiylah Warren, LMFT. The trio chat about the cultural messaging in the Black community where women are taught to "shake off" mental health issues (& how things are now shifting generationally), how to squeeze in self-care even when you don't have a minute to spare (pay attention when you have to pee!), how to trust your body's wisdom (Katie shares how she didn't do this & ended up at the neurologist), how being emotionally vulnerable in friendships can help us feel more connected (+ how to identify which friendships are safe in which to be emotionally intimate), & tips on how to find a therapist (treat it like any other doctor - get additional opinions!). This 50-minute episode will leave you feeling less alone & inspired to take action to better your mental health. Enjoy! Resources from Episode 11:  - Connect with Naiylah Warren, LMFT, on Instagram:  - Check out the National Queer & Trans Therapists of Color Network:  - Get access to mental health house calls with Heal:  - Real, a mental health startup innovating in the therapy space (also, where the amazing Naiylah works!)  - Check out resources such as Black and POC therapists on Therapy For Black Girls:  - Check out therapist listings (you can filter the search to meet your needs) on Psychology Today:  - Watch 'Kissing Jessica Stein' (such a good movie)  - Read 'The Four Agreements' by Don Miguel Ruiz: - Find out more about Heal Haus, a therapy practice in New York:
September 28, 2020
10. Firing Inner Bullies, Manifesting Dreams, & Fighting Fears (with Lisa Pepper-Satkin, MFT)
If you're having a hard week, this episode is for YOU. Karen & Katie chat with Lisa Pepper-Satkin, MFT, founder of Integrated Therapeutic Coaching, about how to identify and "fire" our inner bullies (yes, please!), how we can manifest our dreams, and how to fight those pesky "what if" fears (of which there are many these days!).  Resources from this week's episode:  - Check out Lisa's free PDF on how to fire your inner bully: - Sign up for Lisa's free coaching calls at 12pmPT on Wednesdays: - Check out Lisa's many amazing offerings on her website: - Connect with Lisa on Facebook ( and Instagram (
September 21, 2020
9. Emotional Resetting Amid The Apocalypse
Anyone else finding themselves throwing their hands in the air & yelling into the void? On this week's episode, Karen & Katie discuss strategies on how to reset emotionally when it feels like the world is ending. Katie asks if there should be an expiration date on "shit sitting," Karen shares that with so much happening she's been feeling like a contestant on American Gladiators, and the pair trade tips & tricks (from staring at the ceiling to reading erotica) that are helping them stay sane right now. Listeners: we'd love to hear from you! What is helping you emotionally reset during this crazy time?! Connect with us on Twitter (@Not_OK_Pod) and Instagram (@not_ok_pod), and feel free to send us suggestions/comments at  Resources from this episode:  - Gender reveal party pioneer regrets starting trend, now has non-binary child: - Find out more about "This is Fine" dog meme creator: - Feminist Erotica: a fabulous podcast co-hosted by Jera Brown, Princess McDowell, and our very own Karen Hawkins. Check out the recent episode with erotica editor Rachel Kramer Bussel: - Wanna try unplugging for one day per week? Check out Tiffany Shlain's book: 24/6: The Power of Unplugging One Day A Week:
September 14, 2020
8. Kindness During Stressful Times
What does it mean to be kind (to ourselves & others) during these trying times? In today's episode, Katie admits to road rage, Karen discusses how she realized that someone difficult in her life was suffering, and the pair agree that boundaries are a form of self-kindness.  Karen & Katie also put into the universe how wonderful it would be to Tamara Levitt, the voice of the Calm app, on the podcast.  Resources from this episode:  - Calm app:
September 7, 2020
7. Navigating Difficult Political Conversations (with Dr. Tania Israel)
Anyone else struggling with tense political conversations?! Worried that those conversations may cause the end to some of cherished relationships? If so, you are not alone. In this week's episode, Karen & Katie welcome Dr. Tania Israel, psychology professor at the University of California Santa Barbara and author of the new book Beyond Your Bubble: How to Connect Across the Political Divide, Skills and Strategies for Conversations That Work. The trio have a lively discussion on strategies to employ when talking across political lines, best practices for allyship and how social media plays a part in today's divisive political climate.  Get ready to take notes - Dr. Israel is a ROCK STAR and shares loads of fabulous takeaways! Resources from today's episode:  - Dr. Israel's book: Beyond Your Bubble: How to Connect Across the Political Divide, Skills and Strategies for Conversations That Work - - Dr. Israel's Twitter: @Tania_Israel - Dr. Israel's website: - Calm app: - Follow us on Twitter & Instagram @not_ok_pod, and email us with questions/comments/suggestions:
August 31, 2020
6. Insomnia
Is anyone else losing sleep these days? In this week's episode, Karen & Katie discuss their struggles with insomnia. Katie explains her 'Hunger Games'-style dreams, Karen shares the horrors of waking up to a jarring email at 2 a.m., and the pair swap tricks that help them sleep. We'd love to hear your experiences with insomnia & the hacks that help you - email us: and connect with us on Twitter: @not_ok_pod.  Resources discussed in this episode:   - LeBron James meditations on Calm: - Arianna Huffington's book The Sleep Revolution:
August 24, 2020
5. Taking BIG Leaps (with Artist Erinn M. Cox)
Our first guest joins us today! Have you ever thought of leaving your job and/or moving to a new city/state/country? In today's episode, Karen & Katie chat with the incredible Erinn M. Cox, someone who has done those things on a grand scale. After living in Chicago and wishing she could live and work as an artist in Europe, Erinn took the leap a few years ago and moved to Estonia for grad school. Now, several years later, she is a well-known contemporary jewelry artist loving her life in Estonia, selling her art and working remotely as an art professor. Since taking her leap, she's been featured in multiple exhibitions and international fashion magazines. In today's episode, Erinn offers tons of advice for those looking to take leaps in their own lives - enjoy! And be sure to check out Erinn's gorgeous jewelry on her website (, and follow her on social media:
August 17, 2020
4. So. Many. Feelings.
Anyone else feeling all the feels right now? In today's episode, Karen and Katie discuss how they are handling their deluge of feelings at this point in the pandemic, and chat about the benefits of therapy. Katie also admits to picking a fight with her husband over melted butter. BONUS: The pair introduces their new email address: Email us with questions, comments, ideas for episodes and YOUR EXPERIENCES WITH THERAPY - thank you!
August 10, 2020
3. Coping With Uncertainty During Quarantine
Are you thinking of making a major life change right now? In today's episode, Karen & Katie discuss making massive life shifts during this time of uncertainty, Katie uses a chicken metaphor to describe her partner, Karen looses her phone in the Chicago River & the pair discuss grief in crude, yet plain, terms. 
August 3, 2020
2. Rage
Rage, anyone? In this episode, Karen and Katie discuss why it's so hard to express anger, what's making them filled with rage these days (gummy bears, library book return policies), how women aren't socialized to express anger & how a 90-second meditation can help us all cope with stabby feelings. 
July 27, 2020
1. Introduction - Of Course I'm Not OK: An Audio Project
Welcome to Of Course I'm Not OK: An Audio Project.  Today's episode is an introduction to this audio project (not yet a podcast). Hosts Karen Hawkins & Katie Morell discuss their mission to uncover real conversations about how people are faring during this pandemic and their big plans to bring Michelle Obama into the project. 
July 27, 2020
Trailer - Of Course I'm Not OK: An Audio Project
Welcome to Of Course I'm Not OK: An Audio Project. This project (not yet a podcast) is hosted by Katie Morell & Karen Hawkins, writers and long distance friends. 
July 27, 2020