Progression Podcast

#2: Andy Budd on Ownership and UX titles

An episode of Progression Podcast

By Jonny Burch
As makers, we're great at designing and building products and experiences that people love. But one thing that we still can't do effectively is design our own careers.

With the help of regular contributors and special guests, I dig into why that is, tackling questions around managing vs making, missing manager tools, soft and hard skills and training, compensation and navigating a new job that's right for you.

We want to help managers to build more satisfying careers for their teams, and designers and makers everywhere to do work they truly love.
Available on 11 platforms
#10: Jasmine Friedl (Intercom) on having a deliberate career and overcoming challenges
Jasmine Friedl is now Director of Design at Intercom in San Francisco, but has had an interesting, varied career, learning her trade at Facebook before some time at Udacity amongst others.  We talked about deliberately choosing a career that's right for you, learning from bad experiences, being lonely at the top, thoughtful leadership, privilege  and much much more. Links from the episode Bad decisions and wrong turns: one girls guide to career success: Women at Intercom microsite: Find Jasmine at: Sponsor: Onfido are great 🙌 This episode is sponsored by Onfido! They're ruddy great, and are looking for a design ops person (amongst other interesting design and product roles). Check out their open jobs here: Want to sponsor an episode, or suggest a guest? Email to get straight to me. Me and progression:
April 24, 2019
#9: Kevin Goldsmith on the Spotify model and rolling out progression at scale
Back in January I chatted to Kevin Goldsmith, a very experienced technical leader with background at companies including Microsoft, Adobe, Spotify and more. He was at Spotify when they evolved their org, witnessing and helping to shape the 'Spotify model' which has now found so much popularity in teams around the world. It's taken me ages to get this episode out, but it's a real corker for anyone thinking about scaling a team in tech. There's loads of lessons learned around parallel tracks, consensus-driven org decisions, managing a rollout of career progression in a company which had grown crazy fast with nothing and much, much more. Enjoy! Links from the episode Kevin on Conway's law (podcast): The Spotify careers documentation: Kevin's current gig, Astrum U: Find Kevin at: Sponsor: Onfido are great 🙌 This episode is sponsored by Onfido! They're ruddy great, and are looking for a design ops person (amongst other interesting design and product roles). Check out their open jobs here: Want to sponsor an episode, or suggest a guest? Email to get straight to me. Me and progression:
April 2, 2019
#8: Mills (ustwo) on having to change to stay the same
Mills is kind of a legend of the London product and agency scene and co-founder and cultural hub of ustwo, the company behind (amongst others) the multi-award-winning game Monument Valley.  Ustwo are now huge, with offices in several countries around the world and hundreds of employees, but 15 years ago Mills and Sinx, (the other one in us'two') didn't know what the hell they were doing. Mills is now on his own journey of self discovery. We talk about what it means to have a good career, to build a business you want to work for, to find happiness and to recognise the need for change in order to get there. Apologies for some wobbly sound, sirens and bumps - I wanted to get this pod out there in true JFDI (Just Fucking Do It, the name of Mills's pod) style. Sponsor the pod! I'm looking for sponsors for this podcast! I have a small but growing audience of designers and design leaders who may be looking for a new gig, or some new tools. So get in front of them for an absolute bargain basement price by emailing me at Mills: Jonny:
February 26, 2019
#7: Designing your design career, with Jonny and Austin
First podcast of the year! Took long enough... Jonny and Austin chat about their upcoming workshop – a collaboration with General Assembly – for designers of all stripes to introspect about their design careers and set better goals. Our first workshop is on the 14th of February, in London. Only 25 tickets total, grab yours (or gift to someone in your team) sharpish. ------ Us: Jonny: Austin:
January 29, 2019
#6: Jason Mesut on Online Mistakes and Designer Shapes
This week I'm on the pod with Jason Mesut, designer and mapper of design skills. We get into both his work over the last decade in mapping the shapes of designer across multiple companies, balancing family and being a designer, and being vulnerable online (and making mistakes in public). As we know each other a bit, we glossed over some of the details of what we were talking about, so there's a list of useful links below to help you out. The original design shapes article from a couple of years ago: *That* linkedin post: Jason on Medium: Shaping design (Jason's recent December series): Resonant Design (Jason's company): Jason on the socials: **Please do leave this podcast a review on iTunes - it helps other people find me!** Find me at:
December 5, 2018
#5: Lauren Currie and Bud Caddell on making work fair
This week I chatted to Lauren Currie OBE, a service designer, blogger, passionate advocate of social issues, and managing director of NOBL here in the UK, as well as Bud Caddell, the founder of the California based organisational design consultancy. We tackle a couple of meaty topics around diversity - how can we as an industry better empathise with and improve diversity in the workplace? Plus we get to hear about the inner machinations of NOBL and the other projects that Lauren is working on. **Please do leave this podcast a review on iTunes - it helps other people find me!** Find Lauren and Bud at: And NOBL at: Lauren's other projects that we discussed: Find me at:
November 14, 2018
#4: Jonny and Austin chitchat
Alongside talking to leaders in design and careers, I'll be spending some episodes coming back to fine people like Austin Keeble to talk through ongoing progress of our projects and challenges that we see in the broader design industry with regards to skills and personal growth. This episode we talk about the Progression Pack pilot, the importance of using data to power team growth, and the need for a more structured hiring process for diversity and the good of teams. Also, the audio is gradually improving! By the tenth episode we'll be in This American Life territory. I'm on a break now for a few weeks in India. Please do let me know what you thought of this episode and the pod in general, more in November. --- Useful links: Austin: Jonny: Join the conversation:
October 15, 2018
#3: Jen Dary on Becoming a Manager and Taking a Break
This episode, I'm chatting to Jen Dary, a leadership coach, workshop organiser, writer and card-maker from California. Jen runs Plucky, a company focused on helping companies and their people create happier workplaces. We like that! We talk about the strange need for managers and leaders to spend time creating physical things, the challenges of moving into management and how much it can help to chat things over with someone who can't fire you. Jen is wicked fun, and a great guest. I hope you enjoy the chat as much as I did! Any thoughts, feedback or questions - just email me: You can also record a message in anchor if you want to be featured on a future episode. (I'm still working on sound quality - next episode won't sound like I'm in a bathroom or a record player, promise) --- Plucky: Jen on twitter: So Now You're A Manager: --- Progression Pack: Join the community: Me on twitter:
October 10, 2018
#2: Andy Budd on Ownership and UX titles
I take this episode to chat to Andy Budd, founder of design agency Clearleft, outspoken social media presence and organiser of several design conferences here in the UK. We talk about issues with designer titles, building an ownership mindset for your own career, agencies vs in-house, and bringing a new generation of designers into more senior design positions. Got thoughts or feedback? Hit me up on twitter @jonnyburch or join the community at Handy links: - Andy on Twitter: - Ladder of Accountability: - Leading Design Conference: - Submarine Leadership: - The Peter principle: --- - Progression Pack: - Me on twitter:
October 1, 2018
Episode 1: Minimum Viable Podcast
In the first ever episode, I'm joined by fantastic designer and design educator Austin Keeble, for discussion on design progression, levelling and expectations at work. Among other things I ask Austin for feedback on the work in progress intro to my upcoming course, and he gets into the weeds on the state of design short courses and bootcamps. I'm looking for cracking guests and great topics to cover in future episodes. If you have an idea for either, or just some feedback about this episode, please get in touch on twitter (@mkgrw) or by joining the progression community at -------- Today's show with Austin Keeble and Jonny Burch Follow Make and Grow on twitter at
September 4, 2018
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