Breaking the Silence

A struggle with pornography is difficult enough, and facing it alone isn’t helpful. It takes extreme vulnerability to open up with the truth about your life, but it's so worth it when you find a community to support you. Spencer and Weston talk about the value of friendship, fighting the battle together, and how to find your people. Connect with someone that is going through the same thing so that you can push each other to new heights.

In this episode

• Weston and Spencer’s friendship is a two-way street.
• Find someone who loves you no matter what - and lets you make your own choices.
• To find a community, you need to seek for it.
• When you realize you’re not alone, pornography’s grip is cut in half.
• Sometimes recovery is a group effort.

Links

We flipped roles and put Creed and Crishelle in the guest seats! Hear what they think is the best part of doing the podcast - and what's the hardest part. What do they want every young adult to know?  Join us and learn more about our awesome podcasts hosts and why they are willing to talk about topics that no one wants to bring up.

Show Notes:

Hear the rest of the story! This is part 2 of Stephen and Bentlee Edgington’s interview in episode 54. Bentlee shares how she had the courage to ask the question about pornography and what she was afraid of. Stephen shares that both partners can feel like victims when this challenging issue comes up, but it works better to have compassion for how hard it is for both people to talk about it.

In this episode:

• The importance of honesty when talking about pornography.
• How will pornography affect our future relationship?
• Worrying about what other people might think.

Show notes:

After a couple has their first discussion about pornography - now what? In Part 1 of this conversation, Creed and Crishelle hear Stephen and Bentlee’s story about first talking this issue in their relationship, and how they learned to talk more openly about it in spite of their fears.

In this episode:

• It takes courage on both sides to talk honestly about this.
• What Stephen learned from other relationships.
• Keep in mind what your end goal for the relationship is.

Show Notes:

Slip-ups happen when someone views pornography even though they are trying to quit. That comes with a lot of different emotions, from shame to discouragement. Geoff Steurer, a marriage and family therapist, talks with Creed and Crishelle on how people can learn from relapse and use it to become stronger. Relapse is a part of recovery, and even part of everyone’s life.

In this episode:

• Talk about shame so that you can learn from relapses.
• Ease up on the judgement on yourself.
• Stand up to the bully in your head.
• Talk with someone you trust who can help you see the facts.
• Be compassionate about the pain your partner is going through.
• Have a support system outside of your partner.

Geoff’s Links:

As a certified sex coach, Amanda Louder teaches clients all day about how to have better sexual health, and as a mom she has experience teaching her children about topics surrounding sex. Creed and Crishelle talk with her about how to start important conversations about sex with your partner, children, or other loved ones. They also discuss steps both married and single adults can take to prepare for and improve sexual relationships.

In this episode:

• Intimacy is about knowing your partner and opening up completely.
• Our bodies are inherently good. There is nothing about our bodies that is shameful.
• The six principles of sexual health
• Sexual agreements to make ahead of marriage
• Take care of yourself first and make sure you are in integrity with yourself.
• Be open with your partner about what is working or not working for you.
• Sex is a lot more than intercourse.

Amanda’s Links:

Being in a relationship with someone who is struggling with pornography is not easy. That’s why when Bree Swaner found herself in that situation, she worked to create a support system for herself so that she could support her husband. This week, Creed and Crishelle talk with Bree about how working through your feelings is the first step to being able to be at peace with your partner’s struggles, and how you can start having the tough conversations in your home.

In this episode:

• Don’t be afraid to ask your partner the hard questions about their struggle so you can fully understand the situation.
• Take time for yourself so you can work through the emotions.
• Don’t take responsibility for your partner’s actions.
• Look for support groups with members who are going through similar struggles with betrayal trauma.

Links:

The stigma that comes with a struggle with pornography often prevents people from sharing their story. The problem is, this often leads to someone feeling alone in their situation. Creed and Crishelle chat with Stephen Edgington about how sharing his story taught him how important connection is, whether you struggle with pornography or know someone who is struggling.

In this episode:

• Practice opening up to people you trust to learn how to share your story.
• If someone doesn’t react well, you don’t have to continue to share with them.
• Set boundaries with the use of technology.
• Self-doubt prevents you from sharing your story.

Show Notes:

Seeking therapy can be kind of scary! Worry about the cost, concern about what others may think, or being afraid to talk about our personal problems could keep someone from reaching out for professional help. Cassandra Hulse joins Creed and Crishelle to discuss the ins and outs of therapy for beginners. Hear about how therapy can help someone find the healing they’re searching for.

In this episode:

• Keep trying until you find the right therapist for you.
• Online therapy can be a great resource to those with limited time or during the pandemic.
• You are worthy of taking care of yourself through therapy.
• Normalize therapy as a gym for the mind.

Show Notes:

Finding the right program is essential when recovering from pornography use. Knowing what is available can help you suggest resources to help friends and family. Josh Otani has been working with the Men of Moroni and seen a huge, positive difference in his progress. This week, Creed and Crishelle talk with Josh about how this program has helped him establish safeguards, routines, and connection to help him along in his recovery. Learn what this resource has to offer.

In this episode: 

• Honesty is an important principle for recovery. 
• Find a routine to substitute the desire to view pornography with something healthier. 
• Accountability with a trusted friend can help relinquish the relapses in recovery.
• Each routine should be personalized to accommodate one’s triggers.

Links:

Email Josh: joshuaotani@gmail.com 

When you’re in a relationship with someone struggling with pornography, you may feel disconnected and hurt. This week, Creed and Crishelle talk with Lauren Hunter about how important it is to seek help when experiencing betrayal trauma, and how shame can get in the way of honest, open communication. They also discuss how pornography creates effects that damage relationships and how we can talk about those effects without creating more shame and fear.

In this episode:

• The effects of pornography on relationships.
• Getting help when you feel something is wrong in a relationship.
• Find a 12 step program for betrayal trauma.

Links:

Online resources for those struggling with pornography have some benefits, such as anonymity and being available to help at any time. This week, Crishelle and Creed talk with Clay Olsen (co-founder of Fight the New Drug) about Fortify, an app that helps people stay on track in their recovery.

In this episode:

• Fortify is not meant to replace therapy or 12 step programs, but enhance the experience.
• The recently-released redesign makes it easy to find support online.
• The program meets someone where they are in recovery.
• Small, incremental changes can have a profound impact on your ability to overcome the next challenge.
• Working towards healing is so unbelievably worth it.

Links:

For each person struggling with pornography, the journey is individual and difficult in its own way. So how does someone know when to call themself an “addict”? Creed and Crishelle talk with Cassandra Hulse about how she came to realize that labeling yourself an addict is very personal and really depends on how it can help you in recovery. Hear her breakthrough story when she realized that the goal of recovery is to live a healthy life, not to attend a recovery program forever.

In this episode:

• Labels are important and very personal. Everyone gets to choose what works for them.
• Addiction is not a permanent condition.
• Principles of recovery are lifelong habits, but not everyone will need to continue all the programs or meetings for the rest of their life.
• Be compassionate about where people are on their journey right now.

Show Notes:

Media definitely has the potential to shape our understanding of sexuality - what we should think and how we should act. For people who have a long-term vision that involves a more holistic approach of the relational, emotional, and spiritual aspects of sexuality, then you start to see where the message portrayed in pornography doesn't line up with those goals. Listen as Creed and Crishelle talk with Nathan Leonhardt, a PhD student at the University of Toronto, about sexual scripts, research on pornography, and 3 fundamental systems for building relationships.

In this episode:

• We have many sources of info about sex that influence us in addition to media.
• Pornography teaches sexual scripts (expectations) that are more aligned with short-term sexuality than long-term sexuality.
• Research often reports on an incomplete view of romantic relationships.
• Our goals and ideals about relationships and sexuality organize the way we see the world.
• Religious people may report negative effects from viewing pornography because they see the gap between their ideal values and what pornography portrays.

Show notes:

Thoughts often seem to pop up all on their own, which can feel discouraging when one is trying to overcome pornography. Mindfulness can help change that. In this episode, Creed and Crishelle talk again with Ty Mansfield about how to begin practicing mindfulness and using those new skills to think and act more intentionally.

In this episode:

• Being fully present with less judgement and more compassion takes practice.
• Start practicing mindfulness through guided meditations and reading more about it.
• Mindfulness increases our power to act more intentionally.
• We can learn to bring our thoughts back to what we want to focus on.

Links:

With all the distractions there are in the world, learning to sit still and observe our own emotions and bodies can be quite difficult. In this episode, Creed and Crishelle talk with therapist Ty Mansfield about how practicing mindfulness can improve our lives, whether we are overcoming pornography, understanding healthy sexuality, or just learning how to handle our emotions.

In this episode:

• Mindfulness increases the power to act and be in the moment.
• Sitting with emotions provides the ability to work through shame.
• Understanding about ourselves as physical, sexual, and spiritual beings can come through mindfulness.

Links:

Dating while struggling with pornography sometimes feels like a complete no go. But Brandon Fielding is a young therapist who shares how to know if you should go for it! Creed and Crishelle talk with him about how to get prepared to date if you aren’t quite there yet and how to approach the topic when you’re in a relationship.

In this episode:

• Everyone has their baggage. You can’t wait to date until you are perfect.
• Choose to talk about what you struggle with when you feel comfortable with your emotional intimacy level.
• Shame tells us we are alone. By opening up, you can realize those lies aren’t true.

Links:

Becoming more aware of both the physical and emotional aspects of your body is an important part of healthy sexuality. Creed and Crishelle talk with Ellyse Winward to learn how she continues to build self confidence through mindfulness and understanding healthy sexuality.

In this episode:

• You can learn about healthy sexuality even if you’re single.
• Becoming more mindful of your feelings and body brings self love and prepares you to be in a committed relationship.
• Learning about this subject makes it easier for you to follow your values.
• You are a sexual being and have been since birth.

Links:

When searching for a solution to overcome pornography, try looking at the big picture and expect the process to take time. Creed and Crishelle explore this idea with Dr. Adam Moore as they discuss how to approach recovery from two perspectives: that using pornography causes problems in peoples’ lives and relationships, and is also a symptom of an underlying issue. Coming from both angles can offer the boost for lasting change.

Dr. Adam M. Moore is a licensed marriage and family therapist and co-owner of Sela Health, which operates mental health counseling offices in Utah and Nevada.

In this episode:

• Recovery is complicated and there is not a one-size-fits-all solution.
• Anything that matters is worth putting effort into.
• Oversimplifying addiction recovery is detrimental to those experiencing it.
• Getting feedback from a therapist or family member can give you better insight on your progress.
• The amazing space shuttle analogy for getting velocity in early recovery

Dr. Moore's Links:

Combating your inner critic while overcoming pornography can be tough. That’s why Creed and Crishelle talked with Anthony Ennis this week on learning to love yourself so you can feel empowered to make the changes that lead to recovery.

While studying neuroscience at BYU, Anthony worked with Dr. Scott Steffensen researching addiction and mental health problems. He is currently in the process of getting into medical school. The topic of pornography use hits close to home for him and he is looking forward to sharing a principle that has made all the difference for him.

In this episode:

• Self compassion is learning to treat yourself like your own best friend.
• Be emotionally there for yourself so you can see emotional holes you might be trying to fill with pornography.
• Learn to address the emotions you are feeling so you can make good decisions and move forward in recovery.
• Overcoming is not easy; it takes a lot of mental work and practice.

Links:

No one is perfect. Not even our parents. And that is a great thing to remember when you evaluate the sex education your parents passed onto you. This week, Creed and Crishelle talk with Vauna Davis about how you can take your experience learning (or not) about sex from your parents and move beyond any embarassment or shame you may have inherited.

In this episode:

• There is no “one size fits all” for sex education.
• Conversations about pornography and sex are awkward for your parents, too.
• Your parents did the best they could, and they care for you.
• Forgiving your parents frees you to let go of the past and create the open, loving relationships you want.
• Sex education empowers and arms children to deal with pornography in a digital age.

Show Notes:

Following through on commitments and holding yourself accountable to your partner is an important part of a trusting marriage. This week, Creed and Crishelle continue their conversation with Zachary and Rachel Andrews as they discuss how they make and follow boundaries involving pornography and other topics in their relationship.

In this episode:

• Practicing good habits in all areas of your life can make for a happier marriage and aid in overcoming pornography.
• Establish accountability by creating a plan with your significant other to help make good decisions.
• Trust is a two-way commitment in a relationship.

Show notes:

Trust is essential in a relationship, whether you are first getting to know each other or have committed to be together forever. Creed and Crishelle talk with Zachary and Rachel Andrews about how they continue to work to create an understanding and trusting marriage even through issues with pornography.

In this episode:

• The Andrews talk about their experience working through pornography issues at the beginning of their relationship.
• It’s ok to take time to think about your feelings before you try to resolve a problem.
• Trust in a relationship comes with the ability to be vulnerable about your mistakes and weaknesses.
• Struggling with pornography doesn’t make you a bad person.
• Prayer can bring peace when you are trying to discuss the challenges of pornography with someone you care about.

Show Notes:

Have you wondered how to approach the subject of pornography at the beginning of a romantic relationship? In part 2 of this conversation, Creed and Crischelle talk with Karen Broadhead about how to know when a person is ready to date when recovering from pornography, and how to relate and heal with them.

In this episode:

• Someone in recovery is able to be vulnerable in a relationship about their pornography use.
• Dating someone who is overcoming pornography requires willingness to understand and not judge.
• Focusing on things you have no control over makes happiness more difficult.
• Questions you can ask to help open up a conversation about where someone is in recovery.

Show notes:

Whether you’re the one supporting someone recovering from a pornography addiction, or you’re receiving support in your own healing, there’s a lot to learn about relationships. Karen Broadhead, the founder of Mothers Who Know, discovered some important lessons as she supported her son in his recovery. Creed and Crishelle talked with her about what she learned as she and her son were searching for answers. Listen in to some great ideas that can help anyone navigate the challenges of relationships and overcoming pornography.

In this episode:

• Karen’s story with her son
• Fear is never helpful when supporting someone caught in pornography.
• You are not your own worst enemy - understanding your identity puts addiction in perspective.
• Only you have the power to choose how to change. Maintaining accountability and responsibility for your actions causes you to be mindful of your situation and make good decisions.
• How to know if someone is making good progress in recovery.
• Three kinds of business in this world: my business, your business, and God's business.

Show notes:

Shame, fear, and pornography addiction all create patterns of thought and behavior to meet subconscious needs. But those patterns can get in the way of the life we want.  LaMonte Wilcox is a neuro mental health coach who has studied about our brains and how we can interrupt and change those patterns. Creed and Crishelle talk with him about understanding that process better.

In this episode:

• Our brains run on a reward system, and it seeks to meet our needs.
• 95% of our decisions are made subconsciously, and 70% of those decisions don’t lead to things we truly want.
• Thinking thoughts about shame over and over builds a pattern in our brains, similar to the way an addiction looks.

Show Notes:

What happens when you’re doing everything you know how to do to recover from using pornography, but you keep struggling and relapsing? For Maxwell Hill, feeling like he was drowning was the pathway to knowing that only Jesus Christ had the power to help him. Creed and Crishelle talked with him about how that lead to a deeper relationship with God the Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost.

In this episode

• Maxwell’s experience with pornography as a young teenager and how his bishop and family responded.
• The biggest impact pornography has had is making him feel unworthy and broken.
• When the focus is on punishing behavior, there’s no real repentance.
• The concept of cognitive behavioral therapy – changing beliefs and thoughts that drive behavior.
• Pornography was an awakening to his weaknesses that helped him realize he needs a Savior.
• His daily belief that God the Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost are united in power and purpose to bring to pass my immortality and eternal life.

Show Notes:

Sexuality is talked about too much without the respect it deserves and not enough with the respect it deserves. When Marissah Hannig learned for herself what this meant, her desire to consume pornography began to disperse. She decided that she didn’t want to be someone who consumed pornography. Even when she felt that pull to view it, she would I think to herself “That is not who I want to be.” That same thought has helped her make other hard decisions. Listen in as Creed and Crishelle talk about what respect means to her.

Show Notes:

For single members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and other religions, there can be some confusion about how to save sex for marriage and live your religious beliefs while also experiencing the sexual feelings that God gave you. Dr. Dean Busby, a professor at Brigham Young University, shares thoughts on navigating this challenge. You can hold boundaries without punishing yourself for being a sexual being. You can have a healthy sexual vision, accept that part of yourself, and still abstain before marriage. Seeing sexuality as a sacred part of yourself honors both spirituality and sexuality.

Living in recovery sounds nice, but what does it really mean? Our guest is a young husband and father who spent years entrenched in pornography and harmful sexual behavior until the day his wife discovered what was going on. That’s the day he calls the best day of his life. It was the first time he was ready to be fully honest. And even though it was traumatic for both he and his wife, it propelled them forward. He shares what his daily life is like now in order to live in freedom and honesty. Hear why marriage doesn’t solve a pornography problem, what single people need in order to be committed to recovery, and the importance of determining WHY you want to live free from pornography. “There’s so much potential to improve, change, stop, create a healthy life.”

Let's talk about relearning healthy sexuality after being exposed to harmful media,  and overcoming the taboo on talking about sex! We continue the conversation with Laura Brotherson, a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist (LMFT) and Certified Sex Therapist (CST). You’ll love part 2 of her conversation with Creed and Crishelle about her insightful list of 20 characteristics of healthy and unhealthy sexuality.

“Sex is God's wedding gift to a husband and wife.” That’s what Laura Brotherson believes!  She’s a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist (LMFT) and Certified Sex Therapist (CST). One of the best things any young adult can do to be ready to enjoy that divine gift is to see clearly the differences between sexual health and the unhealthy, distorted expectations and behavior that come from current media and culture. Don’t miss this first part of her conversation with Creed and Crishelle about her insightful list of 20 characteristics of healthy and unhealthy sexuality.

Our guest today is a young woman who has experienced two very different marriages - both times with young men who had some involvement with pornography. Hear how she realized she was in an abusive marriage and made the heart-breaking decision to leave. In time, she chose to marry again, even though her new husband had also struggled with pornography. Her new relationship and marriage has been wonderful. What made the difference? What are some signs of abusive or healthy relationships? Ultimately, healthy relationships have partners who believe in their own worth and the worth of their partner. 

We're all recovering from something on some level. Recovery is all about healing, growth, and change. It might be from a broken arm, a procrastination habit, or a pornography problem. Creed and Crishelle talk with Alex Theobald, a young therapist and PhD student at Texas Tech about using recovery principles to help us create the change we want. Alex encourages us to identify what we want in our life, what it looks like, and what actions will help us get there. Following recovery principles creates trust in ourselves and restores trust with others in our life. Learn from Alex as he shares examples from his own life. Building a plan based on principles rather than a checklist of things that might not connect with the right outcomes can help us create the life we want to live. 

Did you enjoy this? Listen to our first interview with Alex, 3 Steps for Better Shame Resilience with Alex Theobald [23]

Everyone can relate to that terrible feeling of wanting to shut down, disengage from people, and avoid situations because we messed up. Creed and Crishelle talk with Alex Theobald, a young therapist and PhD student at Texas Tech about being more resilient when we feel shame. He encourages us to be aware of when we feel shame. What are you learning about yourself? His top 3 steps to get past shame are to learn how to accept that you are experiencing shame. Then learn how to communicate that safely to someone you trust. Finally, take action towards living consistent with your values. Alex shares some of his own experiences with shame and encourages us to turn those really human and imperfect moments into something that can be productive.

Most of us grew up feeling awkward about saying the names of sexual body parts and how bodies respond sexually. Creed and Crishelle talk again with Harper Defreitas, a young woman who learned a lot while working for a leading sex therapist for LDS couples, Laura Brotherson. It's really important to be comfortable with these terms and know your body because you’re a sexual being - you’re in charge of your sexuality and your sexual experience. She says we need to get educated to know these different parts, say the words aloud, and practice by talking with trusted sources. It’s so important to know that men and women have different sexual response cycles. It can help single people understand themselves and their partner in order to make better decisions about physical affection. And it helps married couples have a better sexual experience. These are skills that will bless you in your relationships now and later.

Did you enjoy this? Listen to our first interview with Harper Should Young Adults Learn About Sexuality While They’re Waiting for Marriage? With Harper Defreitas [21]

Some people wonder if it’s appropriate to get educated or talk about sexuality with single young adults who plan to save sexual relationships for marriage. Creed and Crishelle talk with Harper Defreitas about the benefits of learning about sexuality now. Harper is a young woman who learned a lot while working for a leading sex therapist for LDS couples, Laura Brotherson. She says education can lead to better decisions in dating, stronger self-mastery, and a healthy sexual mindset. It helps us develop as complete beings with emotional, spiritual, and physical wholeness. If we don’t talk about it in positive way, we’re going to be taught distorted views through media and culture. Harper shares some open, positive, and safe sources to learn from for young people who share values of sexual integrity as taught in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

Once you get started, how do you keep talking? Creed and Crishelle share some important principles for successful experiences. These conversations work best when it’s a two-sided discussion instead of a one-sided interrogation. You don’t have to make judgments immediately - work to be curious and learn about the other person. You can have dual emotions going on – compassion and fear, for example. Share your real emotions in an honest way, and be prepared to listen and accept how your partner is feeling as well. It’s an opportunity to start a pattern of open conversations on this and other deep subjects. Please be aware that conversations about pornography within marriages can be very different because of the commitment – we’ll talk about that in future episodes.

No need to worry about when to start talking about the issue of pornography – Creed and Crishelle share thoughts about how to know when it’s a good time depending on the phase of the relationship. And whenever that time is, it helps to give someone time to prepare for the conversation instead of just jumping in without warning.

Creed and Crishelle share 3 reasons why it’s important to talk about pornography with your romantic partner. It starts a pattern of open and honest communication in your relationship, you find out if your values are compatible, and you come to understand your significant other’s experiences and emotional context. Why does someone have the emotions they have? Some people have a ton of shame surrounding their pornography use. And on the other side, those who have been affected by friends or family who have struggled with pornography might have trauma of their own. Recognizing and being respectful of people's emotions is so important. Every time you talk it gets easier!

Weston shares how powerful it has been to confide in people about his problem with pornography. Starting with  his mom, a good friend, a recovery group, and now with guests and listeners on his podcast. “What I've learned from having a community is that recovery is so much fun and it's so invigorating!” You’ll love this great conversation with Creed and Crishelle ranging from building community, to seeing true recovery as becoming excellent, to tips for staying strong during the COVID-19 quarantine. 

Alma and Karen Thurber return (together this time!) to share what they’ve learned about supporting each other's healing from the impact of pornography. Creed and Crishelle talk with them about how they carve out time for communication, how they make time for each other to do the things that help them keep progressing, and how inspiring it is to see your partner keep growing. They have a tradition of a weekly inventory, including praise and appreciation for the good things they’ve noticed about each other that week. Pornography is so isolating and makes people want to close in and not open up and be intimate, but at the same time, intimacy is the cure in a lot of ways and helps people break out of their shell. Don’t miss this great conversation with ideas that can help every relationship grow.

Creed and Crishelle talk with Jason McDonald, a 22-year-old student and former Reach 10 intern. Jason had a brief habit of using pornography when he was 13, and then decided it was making him feel terrible so he quit. However, pornography had distorted his beliefs about sexuality at that formative age.  It influenced his thoughts and behavior with girls in his teen years. In time he talked with a friend in high school who was experiencing the same struggle. He found that connection can help ease the tension and isolation that feed outbursts. Jason has learned to tell himself it's not a shameful thing that he struggled years ago with pornography. Nearly every young person has some kind of history it. Today he wants to see more open conversation about the issue, and stop the shame and silence that keep people from talking and helping each other.

Creed and Crishelle continue talking with Dr. Dean Busby, a professor at Brigham Young University in part 2 of this interview. He helps young adults understand some healthy approaches to sexuality, and what can get in their way. Research has shown there are 3 passion styles – either inhibited, harmonious, or obsessive. A harmonious style is balanced and in line with a person’s values. Also, some people adopt a sexual destiny mindset about their relationships – that if people are meant to be together, they will always have a strong passionate experience. Then if the energy changes, they think they are falling out of love. A growth mindset serves relationships better, when couples decide they will make sexuality something that they want to put effort into and keep growing. 

If the sex education you got consisted of 2 things: 1. Don’t do pornography, and 2. Don’t be sexual before marriage, then this episode is for you. Creed and Crishelle talk with Dr. Dean Busby, a professor in the School of Family Life at Brigham Young University, about getting past the DON’Ts of sexuality. He teaches that sexuality is the thing that uniquely defines marriage, and young couples shouldn’t have to figure it all out on their own. Education about what's normal, what bodies are like, and how men and women are different can help build healthy marriages. This is part 1 – watch for more of this conversation coming soon! 

Creed and Crishelle talk with Karen Thurber, a young wife, mom, and entrepreneur with her own  flower business. She is learning to support her husband, Alma (see episode 11) in his recovery from pornography use, and continually working on her own healing as well. Karen shares 3 important tools that have helped her. First is self-care, second is communication in their marriage, and third is reaching out for support. You’ll hear about the power of boundaries, honesty, 12-step groups, and daily scripture study.