Skeptics and Seekers

Episode 45: Craig Keener

An episode of Skeptics and Seekers

By David Johnson
A Skeptic and a Seeker in conversation about matters of god, religion, morality, and other things that matter.
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S2 Randal Rauser
Randal and I both agree that the universe is really old. However, that presents a real theological problem from which Christianity cannot recover. That is what we don't agree on. 
October 11, 2019
S2E2 Dr. Michael Brown: Man with a Plan
Doc Brown talks Jewish redemption, human sexuality, and spiritual workings of the miraculous. This couldn't possibly end well. 
October 6, 2019
S2E1 Apologetics Review
Dale and David have to scramble as their scheduled guest had a last-minute cancelation, leaving them to wing it. 
September 28, 2019
Christian Hate Speech or Tough Love?
Dale and David discuss whether sharing Christian doctrine and truth with non-believers is "Hate Speech" or simply "Tough Love".
September 22, 2019
Season 2 Premiere- Is There a "Real" Christianity?
Kicking things off for Season 2 of S&S, David (the skeptic) makes the claim that there is no such thing as a real "Orthodox Christianity".
September 14, 2019
S2 Supplemental- Jesus Mythicism Debated- Dale vs. Mythicist Kevin Francis on R2R
Robert Stanley of the Right to Reason Podcast hosts both Dale (Christian/Jesus Historicist)and Kevin Francis (atheist/Jesus Mythicist from the Left at the Valley Podcast) to discuss the subject of Jesus Mythicism- did Jesus really exist or not?  Listen and find out!
August 18, 2019
S2 Supplemental- Dale's University Professor Paul Bali Guest Stars on 4A
Dale and his philosophy professor Paul Bali guest star on the Ask an Atheist Anything Podcast (4A) with Andrew and Matt to discuss freedom of expression, philosophy, science and religion.  Its a must listen folks!
August 12, 2019
Summer 2019 Special on Faith
Here is a bonus episode during our summer hiatus- David and Dale discuss what it means to have "faith" in a Christian context.
August 11, 2019
S2 Supplemental: Jesus Mythicism Refuted (Part 1)- Evaluating Non-Christian Ancient Historian Sources
In Part 1 of this series on Jesus Mythicism, I evaluate the evidence from 4-5 ancient historians; Thallus & Phlegon, Cornelius Tacitus, Suetonius and Flavius Josephus to see if they can provide positive proof that an historical Jesus probably did exist.  Do any of them accomplish this aim?- Based on at least 2/5 of these ancient historians, the answer is a resounding "Yes"!
August 2, 2019
Episode 48: A discussion on Healing
This is just a little something to hold you over.
July 1, 2019
Post Season 1 Supplemental: Right to Reason Podcast- Robert Stanley and Dale Discuss the Morality of the Abraham Test & the Flood
Dale Glover (Christian) guest stars on Robert Stanley's atheist show, the Right to Reason Podcast.  We discuss the moral foundation and justification for God ordering Abraham being willing to sacrifice his son and God's Flooding the Earth.  There were some interesting twists and turns that came up with some of our thought-experiments and real life examples each of us used in making our case but at the end of the day, it was a great convo all around :)
June 8, 2019
Supplemental- Interview Assessing the Shroud's Bloodstains with Shroud Agnostic Dr. Kelly Kearse
Scientist, immunologist and fellow Christian Dr. Kelly Kearse, joins the show to discuss the nature of the Shroud's bloodstains in relation to its authenticity and possible image-formation mechanisms (supernatural vs. natural).  As a Shroud agnostic, I think Kelly offers something interesting and informative no matter what side of the debate you stand on.
June 7, 2019
Episode 47: Finale
David and Dale slip their leashes and go on and on and on and.... This is going to take a while. Enjoy.
May 19, 2019
Episode 46: Helen Paynter
We debate biblical violence. Enough said.
May 11, 2019
Episode 45: Craig Keener
Dr. Keener talks about the historicity of the book of Acts.
May 5, 2019
Supplemental- Shroud Wars Round 4- Joe Marino vs. Hugh Farey
Listen to the 4th installment of the Shroud Wars debates series with Hugh Farey (Shroud skeptic) vs. Joe Marino (Pro-Shroud)- topics include the invisible reweave theory against the 1988 C-14, the Shroud as an artistic object and discussion on the medical/forensics evidences from the Shroud.
April 28, 2019
Anthony Magnabosco: Taking it to the streets
We welcome Anthony Magnabosco who provides a demonstration of street epistemology. 
April 27, 2019
Episode 43: Risen Indeed?
Do Christians really care about resurrection as much as they do? 
April 20, 2019
Supplemental- Shroud Wars Round 3- Bob Rucker vs. Hugh Farey
In the third installment of our Shroud Wars debate series, two Shroud experts, Bob Rucker (Pro-Shroud) and Hugh Farey (Shroud Skeptic) go head to head to battle it out on the 1988 C-14 dating and how the images may or may not have been formed artistically.
April 20, 2019
Episode 42: Luis Dizon:
Special guest Luis Dizon went from being one of the leading Protestant preachers to a member of the Catholic church. Find out what else is interesting about him. 
April 13, 2019
Supplemental- Dale on Ask an Atheist Anything- When does the Atheist Bear the Burden of Proof
Dale is a guest on the "Ask an Atheist Anything" Podcast with hosts Andrew and Matt to probe when does the Atheist bear the burden of proof; topics range from discussing Bayes Theorem to the shifting of the burden of proof and the nature of defeaters (includes back and forth on Dale's critically acclaimed Molinistic Defeater).
April 9, 2019
Episode 41: Doctrine of God Series- The Coherence of Christian Theism- Part 2 (Christian View)
Dale does his best to make the traditional properties of god make sense.
April 7, 2019
Episode 40: Why I Stopped Caring About What the Bible Says, and Why You Should Too (Part 6)
Consider this a preview to our upcoming shows on biblical violence which upcoming guests. 
March 30, 2019
Episode 39: Lydia McGrew
Lydia McGrew stops by to school us on why she thinks the gospels were historical accounts. Class is in session.
March 23, 2019
Episode 38: Natalie Collins
Does god speak directly to you? He speaks to this week's guest.
March 16, 2019
Supplemental- Substance Dualism Series Part 4
This is the final part of my lecture series on Substance Dualism (i.e. the existence of the soul).  Here we look at 4 skeptical arguments against the existence of the soul and evaluate 4 main physicalist theories of what the conscious subject entails.  
March 15, 2019
Episode 37 Drew Sokol
Drew is on the fence. Can Dale and David tip him one way or the other? 
March 8, 2019
Episode 36: David Smalley: 5 Topics
What happens when Dale meets David Smalley in a surprise debate? Find out.
March 1, 2019
Episode 35: Sean McDowell
Latest episode of Skeptics and Seekers
February 22, 2019
Supplemental- Substance Dualism Series Part 3
This is Part 3 of series on Substance Dualism- here we address the second issue of contention of the Mind-Body Problem- proving the existence of a non-physical conscious subject.
February 21, 2019
Episode 34: Why I Stopped Caring About What the Bible Says, and Why You Should too (Part 5)
Latest episode of Skeptics and Seekers
February 16, 2019
Episode 33: Why I Stopped Caring About What the Bible Says, and Why You Should too (Part 4)
This is really a continuation of Part 3, the best of what Jesus had to say.
February 8, 2019
Episode 32: Why I Stopped Caring About What the Bible Says, and Why You Should too (Part 3)
David is all alone at S&S headquarters. And he goes completely off the chain for over an hour. Some people were never meant to go solo.
February 2, 2019
Episode 31: Why I Stopped Caring About What the Bible Says, and Why You Should too (Part 2)
David makes his second case for why he stopped caring about the bible, and why you should too. He tries to make the case that no one can really understand it. 
January 26, 2019
Episode 30: The Truth About Truth (Seeker's View) C. J. Morgan
Welcome special guest C. J. Morgan
January 25, 2019
Supplemental- Substance Dualism Series Part 2
This is the second part of the series on substance dualism- here we assess the nature of mental properties and states (the first issue of contention of the Mind-Body Problem).
January 22, 2019
Episode 29: Gary Habermas
David and Dale are in conversation with Gary Habermas: the dean of doubt.
January 20, 2019
Supplemental- Substance Dualism Series Part 1
This is the first of 4 supplemental episodes on the nature and existence of the human soul (i.e. substance dualism); this will be an general introduction to the series and provide an explanation as to what the Christian position of substance dualism is about.
January 17, 2019
Episode 28: Mike Licona
Latest episode of Skeptics and Seekers
January 12, 2019
Still Unbelievable: Gender
Sarah, Andrew, and David take Justin and his guests to task on the subject of gender roles.
January 6, 2019
Episode 27: Doctrine of God Series- The Coherence of Christian Theism (Part 1)
Dale tries to make a case for god based on his attributes being logically possible. 
January 5, 2019
Episode 26: Why I don't Care What the Bible Says, and Why You Shouldn't Either
David makes a case for why the bible is not worth considering. Let's see how he does. 
December 29, 2018
Episode 25: Christmas Roundtable
Not exactly the most wonderful time of the year.
December 23, 2018
Episode 24: Messianic Prophecies- The Case for Jesus (Part 4)
Dale makes his final case on the basis of Daniel 9. David obliterates it in 15 minutes as promised. Or does he? Enjoy.
December 15, 2018
Episode 23 Shroud Wars 2- Dale Vs. Alan Debate Round #2
Latest episode of Skeptics and Seekers
December 9, 2018
Episode 22: Messianic Prophecy Part 3
Isaiah 53
December 2, 2018
Episode 21 Messianic Prophecies- The Case for Jesus (Part 2)
Latest episode of Skeptics and Seekers
November 24, 2018
Episode 20: Shroud Wars with Dale and Alan Part 2 of Round 1
Conversation continues...
November 20, 2018
Well folks, its finally here!  Round 1 of the big showdown between Dale (Pro-Shroud) and his nemesis Alan (the Shroud skeptic).  Quite obviously, Alan and I are not actually nemeses, we both have strong views on the evidence from the Shroud of Turin and we both passionately believe each other is wrong about it...
November 18, 2018
Supplemental 13: Barrie Schwortz
Barrie Schwortz if the foremost expert on the shroud. And we have him for an interview. Dale and Andrew pepper him with audience questions. Barrie is gracious and informative. David even pops in for a question of his own. No matter what you think about the shroud, you will want to listen to this one. 
November 10, 2018
Episode 18: Messianic Prophecies- The Case for Jesus Christ
Dale attempts to make a non-standard case for the prophetic claims of the birth of Jesus. This is just Part 1. So it will take a couple of weeks to develop.
November 10, 2018
Supplemental 13- Part 10 Evidence for Christianity Based on the Shroud of Turin
Latest episode of Skeptics and Seekers
November 10, 2018
Supplemental 12- Part 9 Evidence for Christianity Based on the Shroud of Turin
In Parts 9 & 10 of our Shroud series, we shall be assessing the second major “Ordinary Artistic” mechanism- the Powder-Rubbing and/or Dusting technique.  
November 8, 2018
Roundtable #3: Grill a Christian
In this episode, we turn the tables and ask Dale the Questions, along with questions from the audience.
November 4, 2018
Episode 17: Spiritual Warfare
David makes the case that there are key things about the spiritual war the Christian can never prove in a way that convinces a rational non-believer.
November 3, 2018
Episode 30
Latest episode of Skeptics and Seekers
October 27, 2018
Episode 15: Drunk with Blood
David makes the case that Christianity is not just a cult, but occult.
October 21, 2018
Supplemental 11- Part 8 Evidence for Christianity Based on the Shroud of Turin
In Part 8, we finish our analysis of the traditional “Painting Hypothesis” as the image-forming mechanism of the Shroud of Turin (as advocated by Dr. Walter McCrone).  I want you up front, this episode was not my favorite to do as it can get very technical at times (as is necessitated by the specific subject matter), so be aware this is heavier episode content wise and hence why I chose to separate this issue from Part 7 to be in a show by itself.  
October 20, 2018
Episode 14: Effective Communication: A Christian Quagmire
Dale expresses real concern about how he and other Christians come across to nonbelievers. David explains how nonbelievers tend to hear Christians.
October 14, 2018
Episode 13: They'll Know We Are Christians
David argues that there is no way for an outsider to identify a Christian. Find out if Dale can prove him wrong.
October 6, 2018
Supplemental 10- Part 7 Evidence for Christianity Based on the Shroud of Turin
In Part 7 we will take a look at the very first Shroud skeptical image-forming mechanism; the “Painting Hypothesis” as advocated for by Dr. Walter McCrone.
October 5, 2018
Supplemental 9: Tara
Who is Tara and what does she believe? You're about to find out.
October 3, 2018
Episode 12: Double Warrant
Dale tries to argue that a prophecy of a miraculous event should be counted as double warrant for the G-belief event. Find out what that means, and if he is successful.
September 29, 2018
Episode 11: Implications of the Atrocious Passages
David calls Dale a moral monster. Dale calls David a moral monster. Listen to discover why.
September 22, 2018
Supplemental 8- Part 6 Evidence for Christianity Based on the Shroud of Turin
In Part 6 we will spend the first half of the show to lay out and describe what it means for an event (i.e. the formation of the Shroud’s images and their associated Minimal Relevant Features or MRF’s) to be “Extraordinary” (aka. fulfill Criterion B.) as part of my case for the Shroud evidence constituting a “G-Belief Authenticating Event”.  Instead of moving on to assess the first image-forming mechanism (The “Painting Hypothesis”) we shall turn to address some of the listener Feedback that I’ve gotten on my Shroud series thus far and my response to some of that.
September 21, 2018
Episode 10: The Historicity of the Jericho Conquest:
Did god cause the walls of Jericho to fall? Dale tries to make the case.
September 16, 2018
Supplemental 7- Part 5 Evidence for Christianity Based on the Shroud of Turin
In Part 5 of our Shroud study, we will finish off discussion of the final two “Minimal Relevant Features” (MRF’s) which will be used in evaluating the various image-forming mechanisms in Criterion B (upcoming Podcasts).  This episode, we look at some of the various anatomical accuracies and bloodstain features present on the Shroud Man’s images, while also surveying 7 Additional “MRF’s”.  In addition, we tackle various Skeptical Counter-features related to these features as well as overall Counter-facts.  
September 14, 2018
Supplemental 6: Part 4 Evidence for Christianity Based on the Shroud of Turin
Interestinger and interestinger...
September 10, 2018
Episode 9: Mythicism
David makes a case for Jesus Mythicism. But it is not necessarily the case you are expecting. Does he have a point? Let's find out.
September 8, 2018
Roundtable #2 with David, Dale, Matthew, and Andrew
Dale shifts his focus from the book to the show, asking questions that came up in the appearance un Unbelievable. We also take questions from the audience. This one is going to go long, really long.
September 4, 2018
Supplemental #5: Feedback on African-American Agnosticism
Lisa kicks us off with thoughts about African-American agnosticism. I wasn't really trying to spend 30 minutes talking about it. It just happened.  We got this amazing video from listener Even Davids: Even points out the incongruity of evolution and Christianity. Sure, I spent an hour debating this with Dale. But Evan made his point and dropped the mic in 4 minutes. I'm not feeling inadequate or anything. But, DANG! We had a couple more comments and a few new follows. Here is a link to some of the websites of those who follow this one: Travis R A Measure of Faith anansi2050 limey Confessions Of A YEC Haden Clark Help Me Believe David Johnson Beyond Religion
September 3, 2018
Episode 8: The Resurrection Revisited: The Issue of “Sufficient Attachment”
This one gets a little heated as Dale and David wrestle over... Well, you'll see.
September 1, 2018
Supplemental 4: Part 3 Evidence for Christianity Based on the Shroud of Turin
Find out if Dale can date the Shroud all the way back to the time of Jesus
September 1, 2018
Supplemental #3: Feedback on Original Sin
This week, David dives into the mail bag. He finds an interesting set of missives from Joyce and Dale as they converse about the remaking of the doctrine of original sin. There is a surprise or two in there. You are going to want to listen to this one. Here are a couple of links mentioned in the podcast:
August 30, 2018
Part 2 Evidence for Christianity Based on the Shroud of Turin
Dale continues the series with more dating evidence. Be sure to check out part 1 first.
August 28, 2018
Supplemental 1: Part 1 Evidence for Christianity Based on the Shroud of Turin
Dale explains the Shroud of Turin, and why it is an important part of his belief. This is part one. Part two has either already been posted, or is soon to follow. See the blog for extensive notes at
August 28, 2018
Episode 8: Round Table with Skeptics and Seekers and Ask an Atheist Anything
This kicks off a week of bonus material as a way of saying thank you to the listeners. Andrew, Matthew, David, and Dale get together to talk about David and Andrew’s appearance on Unbelievable. Matthew is one of the authors of the response book, “Still Unbelievable: why after listening to Christian arguments, we remain skeptics” Dale agreed to be the official cat herder. As the resident (though not quite tamed) Christian, he had a few questions for the grilling. We rambled, we joked, we gave him a hard time. Then, we hit record. And it went downhill from there. Enjoy.
August 27, 2018
Episode 7: Progressive Revelation with Special Guest, Randal Rauser
This week, Randal and I were a part of a panel discussing two books, one of which was coauthored by yours truly. We got together since then and had a round two on a different topic. This is that conversation.
August 25, 2018
Episode 6: Failure of the Fall
David makes a case that the Fall fails as a doctrine, bringing with it other sacred doctrines like original sin and redemption. Under any form of theistic evolution, there is no room for the Fall. Dale calls for Christian participation on this one.
August 19, 2018
Episode 5: The Issue of Subsumability
Dale thinks the resurrection can prove Christianity, and only Christianity. Dale also thinks Christianity can borrow from Judaism in ways that other religions can't borrow from Christianity. Does he make his case?
August 12, 2018
Episode 4: Evil God Dilemma
What should the Christian advise the skeptic to do if the skeptic comes to a conclusion that god is real, but evil? Let's find out.
August 4, 2018
Episode 3 (part 2)
Dale rehabilitates his argument from last time (but not really). David is gracious (but not really). Even so, they both shook hands and agreed to disagree (but not really).
July 28, 2018
Episode 2 (part 1)
No more Mr. nice guys. Dave and Dale argue for the best of their side and the worst of the other's. The discussion was so good, it couldn't be contained in one episode. So when you are done with this one, you can jump right into part 2. Enjoy.
July 28, 2018
Episode 1
Both the skeptic and the seeker reveal the weakness in their own position, and the strengths in the other's.
July 17, 2018
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