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The Liturgists Podcast

The Liturgists Podcast

By The Liturgists

An artful, mind-expanding, heart-opening, genre-bending exploration of how to live a life full of more love and less suffering.
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The Enneagram (Episode 37)

The Liturgists PodcastAug 23, 2016

00:00
01:59:11
Church Shopping

Church Shopping

Michael Gungor talks about how he's been church shopping and how the Internet has reacted to it as well as his thoughts and feelings around this unexpected burst of cultural conversation

Sep 30, 202328:31
Sally Kempton

Sally Kempton

Sally Kempton (January 15, 1943 – July 10, 2023) was an American swami, author, and spiritual teacher. This interview with Michael Gungor from the final year of Sally's time on this planet covers a range of topics from the divine feminine to kundalini to trans-rational perspective. You can check out more of Sally's work at sallykempton.com

Sep 11, 202301:00:37
The Sedona Method Part 2

The Sedona Method Part 2

The Sedona Method has helped transform the lives of hundreds of thousands of people around the globe. In this sequel to our original Sedona Method podcast that we released last year, Michael Gungor speaks with Hale Dwoskin, author of the book "The Sedona Method" about blocks to releasing, the nine emotional states, how children know how to do this instinctively, and more.  

Feb 09, 202358:19
Enough

Enough

In this episode, Michael talks about his discovery about how the most destructive patterns in his history have been rooted in a story of not being enough. This realization has made him refocus his mission to the point that he is restructuring all of his life, work, and business.

Jan 27, 202337:08
Audrey Assad interviews Gungor

Audrey Assad interviews Gungor

Audrey Assad interviews Michael and Lisa Gungor about Gungor’s new record “Love Song to Life.” They talk about music, theology, and some unexpected musical instrumentation.

Nov 21, 202201:11:32
Nonviolent Forgiveness (I Forgive You)

Nonviolent Forgiveness (I Forgive You)

Can the idea of forgiveness actually be violent? In this episode, Michael talks about Gungor's new single "I Forgive You" and explores the idea of forgiveness looking through the different lenses presented in Marshall Rosenberg's "Nonviolent Communication".

Sep 23, 202228:38
A Million I's

A Million I's

In this bonus episode from the Loving THIS podcast, Michael talks about the meaning and story behind Gungor's new single "A Million I's"

Sep 08, 202220:12
Church of the Wild

Church of the Wild

Victoria Loorz, MDiv, is a "wild church pastor," an "eco-spiritual director" and co-founder of several transformation-focused organizations focused on the integration of nature and spirituality.  She feels most alive when collaborating with Mystery and kindred spirits to create opportunities for people to re-member themselves back into intimate, sacred relationship with the rest of the living world.

After twenty years as a pastor of indoor churches, she launched the first Church of the Wild, in Ojai CA and began to meet others with the same sense of call to leave building and expand the Beloved Community beyond our own species. She then co-founded the ecumenical Wild Church Network.

Victoria is co-founder and director of Seminary of the Wild, which is focused on a deep-dive yearlong Eco-Ministry Certificate program for all those who feel called by Earth and Spirit to "restore the great conversation." (Thomas Berry)

Apr 21, 202201:18:43
Jennifer Dawn Watts

Jennifer Dawn Watts

In today's episode, Michael talks to Jennifer Dawn Watts, friend of the show and noted faith community leader and therapist, about the idea of The 12 Steps and how they relate to spirituality.

Mar 17, 202201:23:41
Praise

Praise

Join us in this special episode where Michael discusses the concept of Praise: what it means to him, what it means in the world, and how you can practice it in your own life

Mar 11, 202221:54
John Philip Newell

John Philip Newell

In today’s episode, Michael talks to John Philip Newell, a Celtic teacher and author of spirituality who calls the modern world to reawaken to the sacredness of the earth and every human being. Together, they discuss Celtic Christianity and the modern-day application of its wisdom.

3:00- Michael asks what the scope of Celtic Christianity is

7:50- Michael asks why this wisdom is difficult to practice together

12:50: Michael reads some quotes and John Philip discusses the divine feminine

20:30: Michael and John Philip discuss the intersection between sexuality and spirituality

29:30: Michael asks John Philip what God isn’t

41:00: They discuss distinctions between ego and soul

47:00- Michael asks what the Celtic Christian view of Jesus Christ is

Feb 17, 202258:40
The Sedona Method

The Sedona Method

In this episode, Michael speaks with Hale Dwoskin, author of "The Sedona Method: Your Key to Lasting Happiness, Success, Peace and Emotional Well-Being" to discuss his book and the Method as he sees it. The Sedona Method is described as  "a simple, powerful, and easy-to-learn technique that shows you how to uncover your natural ability to let go of any painful or unwanted feeling in the moment."

Some helpful timestamps for this episode:

5:30- Hale describes the Sedona Method

10:00- Hale gives you an interactive analogy for letting go

12:00- Hale begins describing the basic questions of the Method

13:20- Hale begins describing the experience of it

18:30- Michael and Hale discuss the conscious permission to constrict

23:15- Michael discusses how these practices have affected his daily practices

26:00- Hale discusses one of the more shocking revelations of the method

28:00- Hale leads a process for embracing opposites

34:20- Michael allows some time for personal meditation

Jan 27, 202239:28
Derek Webb

Derek Webb

In the first episode of Season 8, Michael speaks to Derek Webb. Derek Webb is a musician who has always bravely asked the big questions in his music and invited others to do the same. In this episode, Derek and Michael Gungor chat about music, spirituality and why the two have been so intertwined for both of them.

Some helpful timestamps for this episode:

2:30- Derek Webb introduces himself

5:00- Michael and Derek discuss their similar music careers

9:00- Derek talks about meaning

13:00- Michael talks about ambiguity in Christian art

21:30- Michael asks how spirituality and music are intertwined in Derek’s music

31:00- Derek talks about the difficulties of moving between and beyond spirituality

40:30- Derek talks about limitations in art

46:00- Derek tells a story about limits in creation

50:15- Michael asks where Derek’s art is now

57:00- Michael begin interrogating the idea of “belief”

1:06:15- Derek talks about the utility of language without reverence

1:10:00- Derek talks about his philosophical position with his new album “The Jesus Hypothesis”

Jan 13, 202201:22:28
EVENT ALERT: "Mass" An Existential Meditiation
Dec 31, 202103:33
Make Believe With Briana Lynn

Make Believe With Briana Lynn

In this final episode of Season 7, Symposium member Briana Lynn and Michael Gungor have a fun, lighthearted conversation about the belief, play, and why we tried to do what we did in this last season of the podcast.

Dec 10, 202101:07:09
Let's Disagree Again

Let's Disagree Again

Peter Rollins returns to the Liturgists podcast to disagree with Michael about reality being “One” and, of course, to have some good laughs while doing so.

Nov 04, 202102:00:15
Love More, Suffer Less

Love More, Suffer Less

As season 7 draws to a close, Michael talks about the mission of the Liturgists and where things are headed.

Oct 08, 202117:45
Let's Disagree

Let's Disagree

We've lot a lot of listeners and patrons this season. Perhaps not surprisingly, reframing Christianity to be seen as nondual spiritual technologies is not everyone's cup of tea. (Neither is Michael Gungor) But we also want you to know that we hear you and that there's space for you and your disagreement here too. In this episode, Michael talks with an old Christian music buddy (and Liturgists podcast listener), Jimmy Needham, about why they disagree about the content of this season.

Sep 30, 202101:58:35
Salvation

Salvation

Does the concept of salvation have any use if we don’t see it as a ticket to some other worldly existence after we die? Does the progressive notion of “freedom” that is so related to morality, justice, money, and power imply that we should all be more like Bezos or Trump? What is enlightenment and does anybody actually get to be enlightened? These are a few of the questions we tackle in this raw and powerful conversation between Michael Gungor, Emily Capshaw, and Mason Smith.

Sep 09, 202156:40
Trinity

Trinity

The Liturgists forms its first faux ecumenical theological council as Rev. Brianna Lynn, Mason Smith, Emily Capshaw, Latifah Alattas, Chris Davies and Michael Gungor have a fun, lively discussion about the Trinity and what, if any, value it has as a spiritual technology beyond the oppressive patriarchal usages that are so common historically.

Aug 26, 202101:01:51
Fear No Evil

Fear No Evil

Who or what is Satan? What is the nature of evil and what is the best way to interact with it in ourselves and in others? What is “existential kink”? These are just a few of the sorts of things we get into on this fun and wildly heretical episode featuring Caroline Elliot (author of the book “Existential Kink: Unmask Your Shadow and Embrace Your Power; a Method for Getting What You Want by Getting Off on What You Don’t”), Mason Smith, Emily Capshaw, and Michael Gungor.

Aug 12, 202101:15:14
Bonus: Singing Together

Bonus: Singing Together

Singing together is not only a potentially powerful spiritual technology and form of spiritual community, but it’s good for you! Studies have shown singing to be linked to lower stress, better moods, more of a sense of connection, and many more benefits.

In this bonus podcast, we are announcing a last minute event (next Thursday, July 1) where you can come meet some like-minded spiritual people as well as be led by Michael Gungor in some simple chants, songs and musical experiences that are designed to draw one into deep presence and embodiment. No religious belief is necessary to enjoy and reap the benefits of this powerful spiritual practice.

Jun 22, 202114:29
Hell

Hell

The story of a “hell” is present in many religious traditions, but how does that impact the way we experience the present moment? What really is hell? And what do we do about all of the fear and shame it causes, even if we don’t logically believe in it? 

In this episode, Emily Capshaw, Michael Gungor, Jamie Lee Finch, and Audrey Assad all share how the story of hell has shifted for them.

Jun 03, 202147:04
Heaven
May 20, 202151:04
Death and Resurrection

Death and Resurrection

Everything that takes form, dies. Religion can at times help us cope with Death, but are there any downsides to creating beliefs about death? What did Jesus really mean when he spoke of conquering death? In this Episode, Michael Gungor, Emily Capshaw, Rev. Briana Lynn, and Death Doulas Caroline Lee and Alua Arthur explore these questions to understand how we can relieve some of the fear, shame and suffering that exists around Death.

For more about Going With Grace and the work of Alua (@going_with_grace) and Caroline (@howcarolinecarolines), visit www.goingwithgrace.com

May 06, 202101:06:57
Josh, A Christ

Josh, A Christ

Yeshua, which is the original name of the appropriated “Jesus”, is without question the most influential character in human history, but who was he? Why was he so special? Should he actually matter as much as he does? And why is so much violence perpetuated in his name? In this episode of the Liturgists Podcast, Michael Gungor, Emily Capshaw, Mason Smith, Chris Davies, Rev. Kristina Marie Garnett, Richard Rohr (from the past) and others explore how when our view of Jesus shifts from a literal historical savior outside of us who we must believe in to be good, to a living example of the Christ consciousness within us, freedom becomes available NOW rather than after death.
Apr 01, 202144:50
A Wretch Like You

A Wretch Like You

Duality creates shame. As we try to rid ourselves of this shame, we find ourselves in a destructive shame/blame game that places us in the seat of the victim, the villain, or the victor. This episode explores the nature of this cycle as well as how we can be free from it. It was produced by Michael Gungor and Emily Capshaw, and it includes segments from Brianna Lynn, Latifah Allatas, Sonny Avatar, Magdalene, Raven, Elizabeth Capshaw, and Lizzie Goldsmith.
Mar 11, 202159:57
In The Beginning

In The Beginning

In beginning to think about reforming and reframing Christian technologies, we might as well begin with the creation narrative of Genesis that has given shape to so much western Christendom. How has this story shaped us, and is there any use to the story of creation/fall through a non-dual lens?
You can watch The Liturgists Podcast being recorded live (as well as The Alien Podcast) by joining The Liturgists. We love having everyone together where we can talk during the recordings. Check out
theliturgists.com and find where it says "Join The Liturgists." Also, this Sunday at 11am Pacific you are invited to join us for The Sunday Thing. Hundreds of liturgists from around the world get together via video. We break into smaller groups to talk and it is such a wonderful time. You are not alone in your doubts, questions, anger, sadness, atheism, theism, or any other thing you are going through.
To find out more and to join us on Sunday, go to theliturgists.com
Feb 11, 202101:04:28
Reformation

Reformation

In this episode of The Liturgists Podcast, we talk about the history of Christian reformation and make a case for what we think needs to continue to be reformed and reframed within Christendom. Also, as we discuss the future of The Liturgists, we introduce the idea of “The Symposium” and hear from a couple of its members (Emily Capshaw and Rev. Briana Lynn).
You can watch The Liturgists Podcast being recorded live each week (as well as The Alien Podcast) by joining The Liturgists. We love having everyone together where we can talk during the recordings. Check out
theliturgists.com and find where it says "Join The Liturgists." Also, this Sunday at 11am Pacific you are invited to join us for The Sunday Thing. Hundreds of liturgists from around the world get together via video. We break into smaller groups to talk and it is such a wonderful time. You are not alone in your doubts, questions, anger, sadness, atheism, theism, or any other thing you are going through.
To find out more and to join us on Sunday, go to theliturgists.com
Feb 04, 202147:29
Is Christianity Worth Saving?
Jan 28, 202146:43
Advent 2020

Advent 2020

2020 has been a year like no other. This holiday season we want to share something for advent. We also have more cooking for The Liturgists in 2021 which we are excited to share with you in January.
Other Links
Watch Immanuel by Morant
The Holiday Thing event hosted by The Liturgists
We have a holiday event coming up in December and we'd love to see you there! Find out more at
theliturgists.com
You can watch The Liturgists Podcast being recorded live each week (as well as The Alien Podcast) by joining The Liturgists. We love having everyone together where we can talk during the recordings. Check out theliturgists.com and find where it says "Join The Liturgists." Also, this Sunday at 11am Pacific you are invited to join us for The Sunday Thing. Hundreds of liturgists from around the world get together via video. We break into smaller groups to talk and it is such a wonderful time. You are not alone in your doubts, questions, anger, sadness, atheism, theism, or any other thing you are going through. To find out more and to join us on Sunday, go to theliturgists.com
Dec 17, 202030:00
Fatphobia

Fatphobia

Dr. Joy Cox joins William Matthews, Dr. Hillary McBride, and Michael Gungor to talk about fatness and fatphobia.
Dr. Cox is the author of Fat Girls in Black Bodies: Creating Communites of Our Own and received her Ph.D. in Communication from Rutgers University. Most of her work has focused on matters of intersectionality addressing race, body size, accessibility, and "health" within the context of body acceptance and fat liberation. You can follow Dr. Cox on Twitter and find out more about her work on her website.
We have a holiday event coming up in December and we'd love to see you there! Find out more at
theliturgists.com
You can watch The Liturgists Podcast being recorded live each week (as well as The Alien Podcast) by joining The Liturgists. We love having everyone together where we can talk during the recordings. Check out theliturgists.com and find where it says "Join The Liturgists." Also, this Sunday at 11am Pacific you are invited to join us for The Sunday Thing. Hundreds of liturgists from around the world get together via video. We break into smaller groups to talk and it is such a wonderful time. You are not alone in your doubts, questions, anger, sadness, atheism, theism, or any other thing you are going through. To find out more and to join us on Sunday, go to theliturgists.com
Dec 04, 202001:12:13
Womanism

Womanism

Nikki Blak joins William Matthews, Dr. Hillary McBride, and Michael Gungor to talk about womanism.
Follow Nikki Blak on Instagram and Twitter.
You can watch The Liturgists Podcast being recorded live each week (as well as The Alien Podcast) by joining The Liturgists. We love having everyone together where we can talk during the recordings. Check out
theliturgists.com and find where it says "Join The Liturgists." Also, this Sunday at 11am Pacific you are invited to join us for The Sunday Thing. Hundreds of liturgists from around the world get together via video. We break into smaller groups to talk and it is such a wonderful time. You are not alone in your doubts, questions, anger, sadness, atheism, theism, or any other thing you are going through. To find out more and to join us on Sunday, go to theliturgists.com
Nov 19, 202052:45
Post-Election Check-In

Post-Election Check-In

Jamie Lee Finch joins William Matthews and Michael Gungor to talk about the election in the United States, the limbo many people feel, and how we move forward together from here.
You can watch The Liturgists Podcast being recorded live each week (as well as The Alien Podcast) by joining The Liturgists. We love having everyone together where we can talk during the recordings. Check out
theliturgists.com and find where it says "Join The Liturgists." Also, this Sunday at 11am Pacific you are invited to join us for The Sunday Thing. Hundreds of liturgists from around the world get together via video. We break into smaller groups to talk and it is such a wonderful time. You are not alone in your doubts, questions, anger, sadness, atheism, theism, or any other thing you are going through. To find out more and to join us on Sunday, go to theliturgists.com
Nov 05, 202043:44
Should the Church Be Political?

Should the Church Be Political?

Jason Fileta and Michael Wear join William Matthews, Dr. Hillary McBride, and Michael Gungor to talk about politics, the church, and how we can wade through the ways these interconnected spaces in our lives affect ourselves and those around us.
Michael Wear is a leading strategist, speaker and practitioner at the intersection of faith, politics and public life. He advised President Obama, as well as some of the nation’s leading foundations, non-profits and public leaders, on some of the thorniest issues and exciting opportunities that define American life today. He has argued that the spiritual health and civic character of individuals is deeply tied to the state of our politics and public affairs.
Jason Fileta grew up in Wheaton, IL the son of Egyptian immigrants. The plight of the persecuted church in Egypt compelled him to commit his life to fighting for a more just world. He was chosen as a delegate to the G8 Summit in Scotland. The delegates advocated to leaders for debt cancellation for impoverished nations, fair trade policies, and increased assistance to impoverished nations. This helped launch his long-term work in advocacy focused on ending extreme poverty.
You can watch The Liturgists Podcast being recorded live each week (as well as The Alien Podcast) by joining The Liturgists. We love having everyone together where we can talk during the recordings. Check out
theliturgists.com and find where it says "Join The Liturgists." Also, this Sunday at 11am Pacific you are invited to join us for The Sunday Thing. Hundreds of liturgists from around the world get together via video. We break into smaller groups to talk and it is such a wonderful time. You are not alone in your doubts, questions, anger, sadness, atheism, theism, or any other thing you are going through. To find out more and to join us on Sunday, go to theliturgists.com
Oct 22, 202001:11:47
Fredness

Fredness

Fred Davis is a powerful non-dual spiritual teacher who has been helping people wake up to their true nature in surprising numbers for over a decade. In this episode, Michael laughs (and occasionally speaks) with Fred about non-duality, enlightenment, and the inherent beauty and joy of this very moment.
You can watch The Liturgists Podcast being recorded live each week (as well as The Alien Podcast) by joining The Liturgists. We love having everyone together where we can talk during the recordings. Check out
theliturgists.com and find where it says "Join The Liturgists." Also, this Sunday at 11am Pacific you are invited to join us for The Sunday Thing. Hundreds of liturgists from around the world get together via video. We break into smaller groups to talk and it is such a wonderful time. You are not alone in your doubts, questions, anger, sadness, atheism, theism, or any other thing you are going through. To find out more and to join us on Sunday, go to theliturgists.com
Oct 08, 202001:14:06
Cancel Culture
Sep 24, 202002:30:60
Arctic (Rewind)

Arctic (Rewind)

We have been working on a documentary for over a year about The Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. The full documentary will be released on September 22, 2020 and we will be hosting a live stream that same day with the people who produced it including William Matthews, Jamie Lee Finch, Christian Adkins, Anna Jane Joyner, Karlin Itchoak and others. To find out more visit theliturgists.com/arctic
As we prep to launch the film, we wanted to re-release this episode from October 2019. In the last 3 weeks the refuge has come under even more severe threat as the Trump Administration takes steps to open it up for drilling. In August of 2019, Michael Gungor, Science Mike, William Matthews, and Jamie Lee Finch embarked on a trip to the Arctic circle to experience some of the last untouched wilderness on the planet and hear from the Gwich'in people. The Gwich'in are Athabaskan-speaking Indigenous peoples who lives in the Arctic region of Alaska and Canada. Their sacred lands include areas within the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge.
In September 2019, the Trump Administration said it would "seek to open up the entire coastal plain of the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge to oil and gas exploration, picking the most aggressive development option for an area long closed to drilling" to cite The Washington Post. The violence and destruction caused by the removal of long standing protections by the United States is difficult to overstate. This episode is the story of our trip to that area, and what we learned from the people there.
We want to give a special shout out to The Wilderness Society for making this episode possible and to Dan Ritzman from Arctic Wild for his guidance in Alaska.
Sep 10, 202001:17:48
Can Art Help Us Heal?

Can Art Help Us Heal?

Aug 27, 202001:00:06
What Now?

What Now?

Dr. Hillary McBride, William Matthews, and Michael Gungor discuss what happens after deconstruction - often called "reconstruction." They are joined by Kevin Garcia and work together through the different ways we change, build, form, or adapt what we believe and how we live when we want to find what is next.
Kevin Garcia is a digital pastor, creative mystic, public theologian and intuitive soul coach based in Atlanta, GA. After coming out in the fall of 2015 as a queer Christian, Kevin has reached thousands of individuals across the globe with messages of God’s unending love for all people. regardless of who they are, what they profess, or what they actually believe. Kevin’s the author of Bad Theology Kills: undoing toxic beliefs and reclaiming your spiritual authority, published Janurary 2020. Kevin’s work also appears in several anthologies by queer people of faith.
You can watch The Liturgists Podcast being recorded live each week (as well as The Alien Podcast) by joining The Liturgists. We love having everyone together where we can talk during the recordings. Check out
theliturgists.com and find where it says "Join The Liturgists." Also, this Sunday at 11am Pacific you are invited to join us for The Sunday Thing. Hundreds of liturgists from around the world get together via video. We break into smaller groups to talk and it is such a wonderful time. You are not alone in your doubts, questions, anger, sadness, atheism, theism, or any other thing you are going through. To find out more and to join us on Sunday, go to theliturgists.com
Aug 13, 202001:17:19
Are You Perfect Yet?
Jun 18, 202054:23
Shēma

Shēma

A special preview of The Alien Podcast which is our private podcast for patrons. This week Michael (The Alien) and Jamie (The Sex Witch) talk about all manner of rabbit trails. Each week on The Alien Podcast Michael has open ended conversations with wonderful people like William Matthews, Dr. Hillary McBride, Jamie Lee Finch, Peter Rollins, and more. Join The Liturgists at the $10 and get more episodes like this every single week: theliturgists.com/join
This Sunday at 11am Pacific you are invited to join us for The Sunday Thing. Hundreds of liturgists from around the world get together via video. We break into smaller groups to talk and it is such a wonderful time. You are not alone in your doubts, questions, anger, sadness, atheism, theism, or any other thing you are going through. To find out more and to join us on Sunday, go to theliturgists.com
May 28, 202001:11:60
Should Dissonance Be Avoided?
May 21, 202001:02:34
Is Disability Inherently Negative?
May 14, 202055:29
Does Fat = Bad?
May 07, 202001:05:22
I'll Be Happy If...
Apr 30, 202046:14
Grief
Apr 23, 202001:23:16
Eating and Body Positivity with Evelyn Tribole
Apr 16, 202058:20
Holy Week & Easter
Apr 09, 202048:22
Journeying From Hopelessness to Healing with Ruthie Lindsey

Journeying From Hopelessness to Healing with Ruthie Lindsey

Ruthie Lindsey talks with Dr. Hillary McBride and Michael Gungor about her experience with pain and trauma. They also discuss some things we can do during the COVID-19 crisis.
Ruthie's new book, There I Am: The Journey from Hopelessness to Healing, will be released on April 21, 2020.
At seventeen years old, Ruthie Lindsey was hit by an ambulance near her home in rural Louisiana. She was given a five percent chance of survival and one percent chance of walking again. One month later after a spinal fusion surgery, Ruthie defied the odds, leaving the hospital on her own two feet.
Just a few years later, newly married and living in Nashville, Ruthie began to experience debilitating pain. Her case confounds doctors and after numerous rounds of testing, imaging, and treatment, they prescribe narcotic painkillers—lots of them. Ruthie became bedridden, dependent on painkillers, and hopeless, when an X-ray reveals that the wire used to fuse her spine is piercing her brain stem. Without another staggeringly expensive experimental surgery, she could well become paralyzed, but in many ways, she already is.
Ruthie goes into the hospital in chronic pain, dependent on prescription painkillers, and leaves that way. She can still walk, but has no idea where she’s going. As her life unravels, Ruthie returns home to Louisiana and sets out on a journey to learn joy again. She trades fentanyl for sunsets and morphine for wildflowers, weaning herself off of the drugs and beginning the process of healing—of coming home to her body.
You are not alone! We have virtual rooms you can join 24/7 to talk with other liturgists from around the world. To find out more, visit
theliturgists.com
Apr 02, 202001:03:35