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The Cost is Courage

The Cost is Courage

By Dr. Lisa K Baker/Melissa Dyer
The Cost is Courage is a conversational podcast about how hard it is to be human and the courage required. Each week Lisa and Melissa will pick apart everyday ordinary life experiences where you sometimes unexpectedly need to use courage. Whether you need a Champion or a Coach we're here for you.
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BONUS : An Update From the Show Hosts
Thank you so much for hanging with us as we've explored all the ways that being a human is hard and costs courage. We are so grateful to have you in our Courage Squad. Please keep in touch, join our email list and continue cultivating courage in your everyday ordinary lives. We have a "Top Books" List for cultivating courage AND a 14 Day Reflection Guide we'd like to share with you. Just visit and jump onto our email list for your copy. Until we meet again.  High Fives from both of us! 
March 11, 2021
EPISODE 45 : Conversation with Amy Debrucque
What's requiring courage in your everyday ordinary life right now Amy? I asked and she answered. Sharing the hard of having her military son deployed during the pandemic. Missing togetherness during the holidays and how pushing through with courage is a decision. She's walking out philosophy that courage gets the final say. Amy has a few wonderful offerings to share with women one of those is a new course. The coupon is for the course workbook for FREE, it's normally $27.99 for the physical copy because it is so detailed and consists of 87 pages for  journaling, self-assessments, questionnaires, self-care wheel, quizzes and a multitude of resources. The code is FREEWBOOK and will be available to them until March 31st. The course itself is only $147. Amy is an author, wife, mother, and daughter. She is a cancer-survivor and anxiety-overcomer. Her mission in this life is to give women the resources and tools to know that although fear is normal, courage gets the final say.
March 04, 2021
EPISODE 44 : Conversation with Julie Holmquist
Wow! A boy mom of 4, full time care of an adult special needs child, and homeschooling too - that takes so much courage. We know that women are using courage behind closed doors and I'm so glad to share one of them with you. The good news is that Julie hasn't let all those mom responsibilities prevent her from living her dream and waling into her calling. She wants to encourage other women to pursue their's as well. You won't want to miss Julie's answer to this question, "what's costing you courage right now?"  Julie Holmquist is a writer, podcaster, and ministry leader get to know her better here: PODCAST: Kairos Moments  WEBSITE:  Website —  SOCIAL MEDIA: Instagram — Facebook —
February 25, 2021
EPISODE 43 : Conversation with Lisa Appelo
Lisa is an amazing example of everyday courage in action. She's walked through the unexpected traumatic loss of her husband and showed up daily for her 7 children as a single mom. And she shares her struggle and pain with women facing these same losses now. But it doesn't stop there. I'm really excited for you to listen in as I ask her, "What's requiring courage in your everyday ordinary life right now?"  You won't want to miss this conversation!  Lisa Appelo is a speaker and writer who inspires women to cultivate faith in life’s storms.  Eight years ago, Lisa became a sudden widow and single mom to 7. She’s passionate about rich Bible study and has taught a weekly ladies Bible class for many years. She’s been published at Proverbs 31 Ministries, (in)courage, Risen Motherhood and more. As a former litigating attorney, her days are now filled with parenting, ministry, writing, speaking and running enough to justify lots of dark chocolate. Find Lisa’s encouragement for faith, grief and hope at and on Instagram @lisaappelo.
February 18, 2021
EPISODE 42 : Conversation with Ronne Rock
Using grit and showing up when you can't see progress and have drained the well of creativity. Filling the gap when conversations get divisive. Deciding that hope will eventually show her face and refresh our spirits. These are the things requiring courage right now. I just loved the authenticity of exploring how we learn, be humbled, and try again day after day. Yep, this is how she answered my question, "What does courage look like in your everyday life right now?" You won't want to miss this conversation.  Ronne Rock weaves themes of transformative hope and grace-filled leadership into everything she shares on page and stage.  She believes that you are God-designed to influence and impact the world right where you are, and she wants to you understand what it means to live out your purpose. She promises—it’s not complicated. As she says, “We’re in this together, and I am for you.” Ronne is a long-road walker, a hope-warrior, a voice of honest encouragement for women who long to lead well. Ronne tells stories that change stories, and her words offer real hope for your purpose-weary soul. Her book, One Woman Can Change the World, is available wherever books are sold. Find Ronne on Instagram at or on Facebook at Her website is
February 11, 2021
EPISODE 41 : Conversation with Camille McIntyre
Can I tell you...this lady right here! Bounds with courage, how do I know - just spend a few minutes with her and you'll walk away encouraged yourself. Always lifting others up, always hopeful, always giving God the glory. She's a rock star encourager. She had lots to share when I asked her, "What's requiring courage in your everyday ordinary life?" Pop in your ear buds and give a listen to my friend Camille. Camille McIntyre is a native Staten Islander, (NYC) along with her husband, Tim, and their three adult children, Ellie, Andrew, and Aaron. She and Tim are the founding pastors of Oasis Church NYC for 16 years and were youth pastors for 17 years prior. She loves to inspire, encourage and motivate women to make faith-filled choices that lead to change. Her mission is to help women to grow spiritually by teaching biblical principles on how to focus on getting priorities right so they can get their goals and dreams accomplished. Her Ebook ”Focus” is available on Amazon. Stay connected by checking out her goal-setting tips on IGTV Camille’s other passions are leading worship, writing, and health & wellness. Follow her at
February 04, 2021
EPISODE 40 : Conversation with Dorina Gilmore
What's requiring courage in your life right now Dorina? Being a runner takes perseverance. Applying that perseverance was necessary to keep it all together in 2020. Juggling three girls one in elementary, one in middle school, and one in high school was a real challenge through Covid. Marriage and parenting will always be some of the hardest work we take on in life, many of us can relate to the everyday ordinary struggles in life now that we've been through a collective challenge like the pandemic has brought us. Family life is requiring courage from Dorina these days. Can you relate? I'm sure you can. Thanks for joining me and Dorina on this week's episode. Dorina is passionate about helping people chase God’s glory on life’s unexpected trails and flourish in their God- given callings. Dorina has published children’s books, Bible studies, and just released her first devotional, Walk Run Soar. She is writer for (in)courage by Dayspring. She and her husband Shawn started the Glory Chasers Christian running group and together are raising three daughters in Central California. Connect with her at
January 28, 2021
EPISODE 39 : Conversation with Jodi Rosser
What's requiring courage in your life right now, Jodi? Taking a step of courage and leaning into the crazy idea that she, a mom, teacher, and everyday ordinary woman could host her own podcast. Don't miss Jodi's story of everyday ordinary courage in this week's episode. Who knows, you may just find yourself inspired to take your own step too! That's our hope of course. Thanks for listening in . Jodi Rosser is a writer and speaks to a steadily growing audience through her podcast, Depth, and her blog, Heartbreak to Strength. Having walked through multiple heartbreaks (divorce, miscarriage, and cancer), Jodi now inspires women to find hope, joy, and purpose through their unexpected storms. She lights up the most when she shares her testimony using her cracked clay pot, a visual reminder that God shines brightest through our broken places. She lives with her two teenage boys and giant black lab in Rancho Santa Margarita, CA. You can connect with Jodi on her website: as well as on Facebook and Instagram @jodi.rosser. To listen to her Depth Podcast, please click on the following link: Depth Podcast Link
January 21, 2021
EPISODE 38 : Conversation with J.J. Gutierrez
What's requiring courage in your life right now, JJ? Taking a step of courage into a new vocation and ministry can be scary. But worth it! Don't miss JJ's story of everyday ordinary courage in this week's episode. Who knows, you may just find yourself encouraged to take your own step too! That's our hope of course. Thanks for listening in . JJ Gutierrez is a corporate career woman turned homeschool mom, author and speaker. Married for 25 years with three girls, JJ has a passion for equipping women to grow in courage and faith. Often you can find her starting new small group ministries. JJ loves her German Shepherd- Bella and most days you’ll find her sipping a glass of fresh brewed ice tea. You can find her at: Chickening IN: From Fear to Courageous Faith, 8 Pillars of Transformation by Learn more:
January 14, 2021
EPISODE 37 : Courage to Face Forward
Well, COURAGE SQUAD, we made it! Go us! 2020 was a doozie of a year, but the hard work's not over. Every year we need to reach down deep and cultivate new courage for the next. So to kick us off, we've put together a little primer on how to face forward into the New Year with courage.  Why does it take courage to face forward?  Let's consider these factors. The transition from 2020 to 2021 seems circumstantially unchanged. This might be the case for other years as well. And even though this is true, we can still choose to be intentional with our attitude and actions. With the growth we've experienced by getting through the challenges of 2020 we can face our current challenges with the courage we've acquired. Here's how. A short list of different strategies to help you face forward. 1. Find time and space to be intentionally thoughtful to reflect. This can be an hour of alone time. Or a full day or even a retreat away from your everyday ordinary life. When you push back from the noise you can gain a broader perspective of what was, is, and could be in the future. No one is courageous when they are weary, busy, or frustrated.  It's critical to celebrate the highs, mourn the lows, and acknowledge that the vast majority of your days aren't as bad as you may be claiming them to be. 2. Set some goals. Setting goals and putting deadlines on the calendar in areas that are not necessarily work or productivity related. YOU ARE A HUMAN BEING. NOT A HUMAN DOING. When you are intentional about caring for yourself in every area of your life, you will fostering personal growth which aides in humaning well. Pay attention to areas that need rest, care, and enjoyment. Physical, creative, and learning goals are important to your overall personal growth. 3. Fly a banner. Choosing a WORD as a theme for your year can aid in focus and inspiration.  4. Create a growth plan for yourself. It doesn't have to be a hard driven goal. Small steps can lead to consistency and consistency leads to long term growth. Create a plan to read more or learn a new skill. Maybe you need a plan to get your finances in order or begin to journal. Start small and practice daily. You'll be surprised how much you can grow in just a year when you start small and keep to it. 5. Develop a personal motto. A sentence that affirms what you're committed to and helps you hold yourself accountable when you want to quit!  Any or all of these strategies will help you move forward into the New Year with intention. Whenever we align our intention, emotion, and effort we will see growth which feeds our courage. Remember, courage is anything that requires "strength of heart." As we face forward into a New Year and new season of The Cost Is Courage Podcast, we're excited to bring some new voices into the conversation. We hope you choice to stick with us as we all move into 2021 with courage! Some additional encouragement and resources to help you face forward with courage can be found by listening back to these episodes from our first Season. Visit : Episode 06 : Courage in Uncertainty Episode 08 : Courage in Imperfect Action Episode 09 : Courage to Try Again Episode 18 : Courage to Hope Episode 29 : Courage to Pivot If you're interested in life planning or goal setting tools from Michael Hyatt, you can find those resources at Don't forget to JOIN our Courage Squad and received our Favorite Books List for cultivating courage and our 14 Days of Courage daily devotional. And stay connected with us on Facebook and Instagram too! @CostIsCouragePodcast
January 07, 2021
EPISODE 36 : Courage to Reflect
Hoooooooo, goodness! Reflecting on 2020 is a BIG TASK. It takes courage to reflect. What if we don't like what we see? What if we have regrets? What if we find more work to be done? What if things didn't turn out the way we hoped? Ack! In this episode, to end the year and to end season one, we take the plunge and demonstrate our own courage in reflecting on the lessons of 2020. We each share our top five takeaways of the year, and we encourage you to take a moment to think about what this year has taught you. We'd love to hear what you've learned! And if there was an episode this year that taught you something, we'd love to hear that too. Send us a message at Follow us on IG @costiscouragepodcast
December 31, 2020
EPISODE 35: Courage and Faith
It's Christmas Eve and we're digging into Faith. Having faith in something requires a lot of courage. It calls on us for  Surrender Giving up control Trusting in another  Believing this is a safe thing to do, the right thing to do, the best thing to do Opening ourselves to vulnerability, risk Join us in the episode as we talk through the courage required to lean into faith. Faith in God, but also faith in each other. Find us on IG at @costiscouragepodcast.  Join our Courage Squad at
December 24, 2020
Episode 34: Courage for the Future
The future is always uncertain, but here in the time of #coronalife, the uncertainty is THROUGH THE ROOF. How do we even make plans? What will the future hold? This season of life has been a great opportunity for growing the courage to hold the future loosely. Listen in for some practical tips on how to face the future, plan for the unknown, have the courage and confidence to know you'll make it no matter what. Some other episodes related to this topic: #6: Courage in Uncertainty #18 Courage in Hope #26 Courage in Failure Follow us on IG @costiscouragepodcast, and join our Courage Squad at
December 17, 2020
Episode 33: Courage in Grief
Big feelings require courage. Facing pain. Allowing ourselves to feel it, facing the fear that it might overwhelm us, facing thoughts and feelings that are scary. And grief is a VERY. BIG. FEELING. You might ask yourself: How can I do this? How can I face a world without so-and-so in it? Or a world where x didn’t actually happen? How can the world just GO ON LIKE NORMAL? And grief isn't only about death, but is triggered by losses (and even changes) of all kinds. Our takeaway in today's episode is that grief is a process. And it takes what it takes...let go of your own expectations or the expectations of others. We share some practical ways to get through grief and to find the courage to face it. Some of Dr. Lisa's favorite grief resources that she shares with clients: Book: It's OK that You're Not OK by Megan Devine ( Book of short meditations: Healing after Loss by Martha Whitmore Hickman Website: Other episodes you might try: Courage to FEEL (#17)  Courage to CRY (#27) Follow us on IG @costiscouragepodcast and join our Courage Squad at
December 10, 2020
EPISODE 32 : Courage in Overwhelm
If overwhelm isn't something you've struggled with in the past, this may have been the year where you've developed some empathy for this scary monster. And that's exactly what it is. When we are overshadowed by tasks, emotions, or circumstances we experience overwhelm. Learning to admit that we're experiencing more than we can handle is step number one in our journey of cultivating courage in overwhelm. In this episode we get to chatting about ways to pause, act with intention, and face this scary monster. Whether you're the strong personality who needs to be vulnerable enough to ask for help. Or the tentative type who needs to believe that you can win this battle, this episode is for you. If 2020 was anything it was overwhelming. Take a break and listen. We've got tools to help you through it!  As always you can follow us on socials at @costiscouragepodcast and get some bonus resources at 
December 03, 2020
EPISODE 31: Courage and Family
As we approach the holidays, we're also approaching more time with our families (unless Covid has something to say about this...yikes!). Why does family require courage? Because relationships require courage. And our family relationships can be our trickiest ones. Tune in for some encouragement navigating YOUR family. Other episodes you might want to check out: Episode 5: Courage in Relationships Episode 24: Courage to Say Hard Things Join our Courage Squad! Follow us on IG: @costiscouragepodcast
November 26, 2020
EPISODE 30 : Favorite Books for Cultivating Courage
This may be my favorite harvest from our “quarantine project” that became a full on podcast. In this episode we talk about our favorite books that have helped us cultivate courage. From embracing the potential to edit our own stories to accepting that intimacy and vulnerability have an impact on how courageous we are with others, it’s all here. Equip yourself with voices and guidance to: Be More Assertive. Improve Your Self-Esteem. Set Boundaries. Celebrate the Gift of Ordinary. Be Inspired to Dream. Fight Fear. Pursue Your Passion. Find Your Voice. and so much more!  We didn't get a chance to cover all of our favorites so we created a resource for you. DOWNLOAD a comprehensive list of the books we recommend to cultivate your courage. We'll even be covering some on these in Season 2. Grab your DOWNLOAD here.
November 19, 2020
EPISODE 29 : Courage to Pivot
There's a good chance 2020 has required some pivoting in your life! How do we handle it when a change a direction is required? How do we muster the courage to make difficult shifts? Sometimes a shift can feel like failure, we might feel the loss of the goal we were working towards, maybe we worry about disappointing others (or ourselves). How can we move through these changes with courage, to find the opportunities in the pivot? Listen in! Are you a member of our Courage Squad? Join us! Follow us on IG: @costiscouragepodcast
November 12, 2020
EPISODE 28 : Courage to Adopt
In honor of November being National Adoption Month, Lisa shares more of her story in having the courage to consider and pursue adoption.  This topic touches on so many of our previous episodes! Take a deep dive into our archives... Courage in uncertainty (episode 6) Courage in waiting (episode 7) Courage in imperfect action (episode 8) Courage to try again (episode 9) Courage in yes/no (episodes 10/11) Courage to feel (episode 17) Courage in hope (episode 18) Courage to love (episode 19) Courage to pursue a dream (episode 20) Courage in making decisions (episode 22)
November 05, 2020
EPISODE 27 : Courage to Cry
We don't think it's any great mystery that it takes courage to cry. Most of us avoid crying in front of others, or maybe avoid crying altogether. It means confronting feelings, letting others see we have can feel tremendously vulnerable. In this episode we talk about how to grow our courage in letting our tears flow. And if you haven't cried in a long time, how to prime the pump and move towards allowing your emotions to surface. If you've been taught that crying is weakness, we want to change your mind! Related episode: #17 - Courage to Feel If you're not on our Courage Squad, join us! Follow us on Instagram @costiscouragepodcast F
October 29, 2020
EPISODE 26 : Courage in Failure
It's not hard to understand why failing requires courage!  But if we're going to accomplish anything at all in this life...whether a job, a relationship, a skill...we have to be willing to face the possibility that it might not exactly go as well as we hope or expect. Listen in to this episode for practical tips on preparing ourselves for failure, with the biggest being a mindset shift to remove the concept of "failure" from your life entirely. (Yes, really). For funsies, click here to see Jake the Dog's inspirational words on failure.  All this is even easier when you have a Courage Squad to help you through...join ours! Follow us on IG: @costiscouragepodcast
October 22, 2020
EPISODE 25 : Courage in Success
Even success requires courage! What if I'm not as good as I want to be?  What if I actually get what I want, can I withstand the pressure, can I keep it up? What if I find that what I thought I wanted isn't as great as I hoped? Being out in front, doing well can set you up for exposure, vulnerability, responsibility, increased risk, increased pressure. Admitting you want something can be scary!  And if your success is tied to your sense of self-worth, it gets even scarier. Listen in to this episode for some practical tips to face success with courage. All this is even easier when you have a Courage Squad to help you through...join ours! Follow us on IG: @costiscouragepodcast
October 15, 2020
EPISODE 24 : Courage to Say Hard Things
Hand up if you've ever dreaded having a difficult conversation. Yeah, me too. In this episode, we talk about all the reasons we might want to avoid having a difficult conversation...and all the reasons why we shouldn't. What happens if you don't have the conversation, and what do you make possible in your life and relationships if you do. We walk you through some practical steps for mastering this important life skill. We can do hard things! And it's even easier when you have a Courage Squad to help you through...join ours! Follow us on IG: @costiscouragepodcast
October 08, 2020
EPISODE 23 : Courage in Self-Awareness
You know what takes courage? Taking a real honest look in the mirror. What if you see something you don't like? What if you learn something about yourself that you'd rather not know? What if you find something that you really have to work on but don't know where to start?  Allowing yourself to be open WITH yourself ABOUT yourself is a vital human skill, and one that we need to consistently apply courage to. In this episode we talk about all the reasons WHY this takes courage. WHY we should do it. (Spoiler: for really good reasons!). And we even get practical about HOW you should do it. Listen in! If you're not on our Courage Squad, GET IN THERE ALREADY! Follow us on IG: @costiscouragepodcast
October 01, 2020
EPISODE 22 : Courage in Making Decisions
Making decisions can be overwhelming! We make SO MANY DECISIONS every day! Decision fatigue is a real thing, and in this episode, we talk about how to move through our life's decisions with courage and how to protect ourselves from getting worn out with decision fatigue. When you're faced with a really big decision, it can be tempting to put it off. What if you make the wrong choice? Or what if you wait just a little bit longer and the right choice will become clear? Let us walk you through some steps to make the decisions that are hanging you up. Listen in! Resources in this episode: - We both love the Next Right Thing podcast with host Emily P. Freeman, which is all about making decisions.  - Emily also has a book by the same name. Are you on our Courage Squad? Whyever not?? JOIN US! Follow us on IG: @costiscouragepodcast
September 24, 2020
EPISODE 21 : Everyday Courage
In today's episode we talk about the everyday stuff in our lives right now requiring courage. And what we're doing to protect ourselves from discouragement and ways we're finding encouragement. Sometimes we're not even aware of all the ways we're using our courage EACH AND EVERY DAY, and all the opportunities we have daily to cultivate our courage, to work it like a muscle. What's requiring courage in YOUR life right now? Join our Courage Squad and let us know! Follow us on IG: @costiscouragepodcast
September 17, 2020
EPISODE 20 : Courage to Pursue a Dream
We are celebrating Melissa's book launch today!  You can learn more about her book, Learning to Roar HERE. And take the Courage Persona Quiz HERE. Going after a dream definitely requires courage! In this episode, Melissa shares about a dream she pursued in the past and the process she used to get the courage to do it, and a BIG DREAM she is in the midst of making happen RIGHT NOW! We get super practical with how to cultivate the courage to: - even admit you have a dream in the first place - assess whether you should go for it - push through the hard moments and the setbacks - doing everything you can to make it happen If you've ever had a dream you wanted to go after, this is a don't miss episode! Resources from this episode: The John Maxwell book Melissa used when deciding whether a dream was worth pursuing: Put Your Dream to the Test   Be sure to join our Courage Squad if you haven't already! Follow us on IG: @costiscouragepodcast
September 10, 2020
EPISODE 19 : Courage to Love
To love is to be vulnerable, and as you've heard us say so many times, vulnerability always requires courage! When you allow yourself to love, you open yourself up to the pain of rejection, of loss, of disappointment. You open yourself to care and worry. Things MATTER once love is involved. And when we make a commitment to love, we're in it "for better or for worse"...we commit to weathering hard things with those we love. In this episode we talk about why this is a step of courage we should take and how to take it. Listen in! Here is the full text of the CS Lewis quote we shared during the episode: “To love at all is to be vulnerable. Love anything and your heart will be wrung and possibly broken. If you want to make sure of keeping it intact you must give it to no one, not even an animal. Wrap it carefully round with hobbies and little luxuries; avoid all entanglements. Lock it up safe in the casket or coffin of your selfishness. But in that casket, safe, dark, motionless, airless, it will change. It will not be broken; it will become unbreakable, impenetrable, irredeemable. To love is to be vulnerable.” We would so love to have you on our Courage Squad...Join us today! Follow us on IG: @costiscouragepodcast
September 03, 2020
EPISODE 18 : Courage to Hope
Oh boy, can hope be scary or what??  Hope is that feeling or belief that the thing we want can be had or that events will turn out for the best. Hope is vital to our lives...but it can also be so vulnerable! Why does hope require courage? Because what if it doesn't work out? What if it's not as good as we thought it would be? How will you manage disappointment? In this episode we talk about how to manage the risk you take when you put yourself out there to hope and how to move forward with courage. Listen in! If you want more people on your own Courage Squad, join us! Follow us on IG: @costiscouragepodcast
August 27, 2020
EPISODE 17 : Courage to Feel
Do you have feelings that you avoid? Feelings that you feel guilty about? Feelings that feel too overwhelming to even consider allowing yourself to feel?  Staying with our feelings and allowing ourselves to feel ALL of them is so very courageous! In this episode we talk all about why you SHOULD feel all the feelings, what you're missing out on if you don't, and most importantly HOW to do this. Listen in! As mentioned in the episode, a great tool to help you identify what you might be feeling is the Feelings Wheel.  Join our Courage Squad and get a 14-day boost of courage! Follow us on IG: @costiscouragepodcast
August 20, 2020
EPISODE 16 : Courage to Love Your Body
If you've been in this world for even a minute you know that loving our bodies is NOT the norm. Learning to love your body can be downright revolutionary, and courage is required to overcome the difficult feelings you might harbor towards it. In this episode we talk about how to separate our worth from our appearance, how to love our bodies even when they don't conform to (arbitrary and often dangerous) beauty standards, and finding balance between wanting to look good and placing our value in our looks. We share some practical tips and strategies to start moving away from body shame towards body love. To see the picture of Lisa in the height of her legs-as-stilts growth spurt, click here. You guess which one she is. :) Join our Courage Squad...we'd love to have you! Follow us on IG: @costiscouragepodcast
August 13, 2020
EPISODE 15 : Courage in Procrastination
Courage and procrastination might not seem like a natural combination. Why would courage be needed to overcome procrastination? Don't we just need productivity hacks??? Procrastination is not about laziness, and overcoming it isn't about finding the willpower or motivation to power through. In this episode we talk about how courage to face our difficult emotions is actually the key to overcoming procrastination. Listen in! If you're looking to cultivate more courage in your life, join our Courage Squad and get a 14-day boost of courage straight in your inbox. Follow us on IG: @costiscouragepodcast
August 06, 2020
EPISODE 14 : Courage in Friendships
Making friends can call for a lot of courage!  In putting yourself out there, connecting with others, you're saying, "I like you like me? This is me, do you accept or reject me?" It's so much vulnerability! In friendship, you're investing in another person. Will it be worth it? The closer you get to someone, the bigger the risk of pain if something goes wrong in the relationship. It takes courage to keep growing closer. In friendship, we let others know us, and that can feel exposing. Am I giving another person power to hurt me by revealing myself? Some strategies for making friends:  Be available, create opportunities Be intentional Start conversations, be curious, use FORD (family, occupation, recreation, dreams) Be a good listener, be interested Seek commonalities (interests, values, etc) Be reliable, trustworthy, Be a safe place Be vulnerable Ultimately be the kind of friend you want - check in with yourself We make it so personal when others don’t immediately see the amazing friendship potential, but a lot of times it’s not about us (we're sure it sometimes is, but it’s often not) - life is busy, people aren’t in the same place of prioritizing a new friendship, they might have the same comfort level. Takeaway: Making, having, and being a friend requires courage! But it’s worth it to get that deep connection and support. Action step: Are you in need of a friend? Take steps to make yourself available and identify who you might take the next step with. Need more depth in your existing friendships? What is one step you can do to move the needle? Need even more encouragement? Get 14 Days of Courage at Follow us on IG @costiscouragepodcast
July 30, 2020
EPISODE 13 : Courage to Apologize
We don't think it's too big a mystery why apologizing requires courage. We're admitting we were wrong, that we hurt someone. We're taking ownership and responsibility. We're opening ourselves up to the possibility that our apology won't be accepted, that the relationship won't be fixed, that there could be an AWKWARD CONVERSATION.  You may have heard "Love means never having to say you're sorry," but that is DEAD WRONG. In a healthy relationship, saying you're sorry when you've hurt someone is vital. Not apologizing is not an option if you want deep, authentic, healthy meaningful relationships where both parties feel safe. By apologizing, you are able to: Acknowledge that you were wrong. Discuss what is allowed and not allowed in your relationship. Express your regret and remorse. Learn from your mistakes and find new ways of dealing with difficult situations. Open up a line of communication with the other person. How to move toward a tough apology: Is there someone you can talk to about it? Get support and accountability Write out what you want to say, role play (though stay open to it not going that way) - helps to have a plan Pep talk yourself - acknowledge how hard it is to yourself, what results you’re hoping for, and how you can prepare yourself if expectations aren’t met Have an aftercare plan for yourself...steps of courage can be really draining! Remember: who do YOU want to be? Focus on WHY this is important to do Take away: Being a good human means we take the courageous step and apologize when we have hurt others. Action step: Take stock: how are you at apologizing? Is there an apology you’ve been avoiding or now realize you need to make? What’s one thing you can do to move toward that? Need even more encouragement? Get 14 Days of Courage at Follow us on IG @costiscouragepodcast
July 23, 2020
EPISODE 12 : Courage to Be Yourself
Hello you beautiful unicorn! You magnificent weirdo! You are so wonderfully unique, amazing in your very you-ness. There is nothing more courageous or interesting than being you. When we put our real, authentic, lovely selves out there, we are also opening ourselves up to other people's opinions, their thoughts and feelings about us can be validating or rejecting, and that's scary! Vulnerable! Risky! Hence: Courage is required. If you really knew me, would you still love me?  Who "should" I be in any given moment? How heavy is that pressure? Can I shed it? I'm not as tall, smart, outgoing, athletic, well-read, etc etc etc as that okay? When you are yourself, you give other people permission to be themselves too. And our deepest wish is to be known for exactly who we are, and being known, we want to be loved exactly as we are. Three questions for getting to know yourself: Who are you? Where do you want to be? Is what you’re doing getting you closer or further away from that goal? Takeaway: We are all unicorns. Including you. Action step: Answer the three questions. Need even more encouragement? Get 14 Days of Courage at Follow us on IG @costiscouragepodcast
July 16, 2020
EPISODE 11 : Courage of NO
FIRST: It's Pina Colada Day! Here's a recipe we love, rum optional. And the summer heat is in FULL EFFECT here in Florida, so thank God for a refreshing beverage! Now, on to the often tough business of saying NO. Our YES can often be fear-based. Maybe we're afraid of disappointing others. Maybe we worry about what others will think of us if we don't do what they're asking. Maybe our self-esteem will take a hit if we veer off from our usual mode of people-pleasing.  If you say yes when you mean no, you are opening the door for resentment. If you say yes when you mean no, you lose the ability to say yes to things you might have prioritized more. “No” feeds into good boundaries, makes for healthier relationships, makes it so that your word is more authentic, more honest, you are more trustworthy. It means you know yourself and your priorities. Being able to say no when you mean it and need to shows that you also value yourself. You matter too! Some steps to get into the habit of saying NO when that's what you really want to say: 1. Start by saying NO in your daily life in the smaller less significant situations to gain the muscle of saying no. 2. Observe how people you respect say no. Model what you say using their style. 3. Practice saying no to people you feel comfortable with. 4. Every time you say ‘no’ successfully, celebrate the win. Action step: Take some time to think about what might make NO hard for you to say. Start practicing. Need even more encouragement to move toward a NO? Get 14 Days of Courage at Follow us on IG @costiscouragepodcast
July 09, 2020
Episode 10 : Courage of YES
Some yeses don’t require much courage. But a lot of times YES requires a big ol’ chunk of courage. In this episode we talk about what can make some yeses so scary, and how to draw on courage to step up, to move into growth and new challenges. Some questions to help evaluate your YES: What am I afraid of? What is holding me back? Is saying yes aligned with my values? Would the person I want to be say yes or no to this? Three years from now would I regret saying no to this? Is saying yes related to pleasing someone or not disappointing someone? If I took that away, would my answer change? What are the opportunities in this yes? How can I grow and what can I learn? Will this yes stretch me, take me out of my comfort zone, challenge me? Action Step: Identify a “yes” you have been avoiding. Consider this your nudge to step up. Need even more encouragement to move toward a YES? Get 14 Days of Courage at Follow us on IG @costiscouragepodcast
July 02, 2020
Episode 09 : Courage to Try Again
First things first: have you tried grasshopper tacos? Former picky eater, Lisa, has used her courage to overcome her picky past many times and recently had grasshopper tacos at Taquiza in Miami. Crunchy, tastes like popcorn, overall not her fave taco filling. But hey, worth a try. [I guess]. Okay, now the real stuff: why is trying again so hard? Usually trying again comes after some failure, something not going as planned, something painful. So maybe trying in the first place was hard. Vulnerability was required. And vulnerability is a risk. And then that didn’t go so now there’s scar tissue to overcome if you’re going to try again. In this episode we talk about how to navigate those hurts and scars to find the courage to try again. If you’d like a boost in your courage, get 14 Days of Courage at Follow us on IG @costiscouragepodcast
June 25, 2020
Episode 08 : Courage in Imperfect Action
Where are all our perfectionists at?? We want to hear from you! Go to to drop us a message. You can also sign up for 14 Days of Courage to get a boost of encouragement. Perfectionism kills growth, steals joy and fulfillment. We can find ourselves trapped in analysis paralysis. Our perceived flaws and weaknesses loom, and we chalk them up as reasons not to begin. What if we make a mistake? What if we look foolish? What will others think if it’s not just exactly right? In this episode we talk about the obstacles that stop us from taking action, and how to overcome them. How to shift our mindset to move forward. Takeaway: Don’t wait to feel ready, to feel completely secure and sure. Just start. Give yourself permission to do things imperfectly. Action step: What’s one thing you’ve been putting off? And what’s one next imperfect step you can take?
June 18, 2020
Episode 07 : Courage in Waiting
Are you good at waiting? Waiting can be so hard! We prefer action over inaction, being active versus being passive. We want to be making things happen, rather than feeling stuck in limbo. In this episode we talk about what makes waiting so difficult and what is needed to wait well. And how to lean into the growth of a waiting season, and to maybe even find the purpose and the positives in waiting. Need some extra help in a waiting season right now? Go to to get 14 Days of Courage for a jumpstart from your very own Courage Coach & Courage Champion. Follow us on IG @costiscouragepodcast
June 11, 2020
BONUS : Courage to Examine Biases
We felt it appropriate to have the courage to offer some thoughts around the current division resulting from George Floyd's tragic death. 
June 05, 2020
Episode 06 : Courage in Uncertainty
The coronavirus is giving us all a HUGE lesson in coping with uncertainty. In this episode we talk about why uncertainty is so hard, why it makes us feel so very vulnerable. And in the face of uncertainty, how do we cultivate peace, how do we ground ourselves, how do we gain some semblance of control when so much is out of our control. Courage helps us move forward when uncertainty might otherwise leave us paralyzed. The journaling practice Lisa describes is Morning Pages from The Artist's Way by Julia Cameron. Need some extra courage right now? Go to to get 14 Days of Courage as a jumpstart from your very own Courage Coach & Courage Champion. Follow us on IG: @costiscouragepodcast
June 04, 2020
Episode 05 : Courage in Relationships
This is a huge topic we will return to over and over, but in this episode we start the conversation on the courage required in relationships. We discuss the courage required and the steps to increasing depth in your relationships. Who deserves your trust? What are signs it’s safe to move forward? When should you take a step back? To have increased intimacy, closeness, connection, vulnerability, you have to take risks. How do you tolerate that risk? Here is the super scientific chart Lisa describes about the relationship between intimacy and risk. Take away: Relationships require vulnerability and intention. Action step: Look at your people, and think of one thing you can do this week to step out in courage to strengthen a relationship. We’d love to be on your Courage Squad! Go to to get 14 Days of Courage as a jumpstart. Follow us on IG @costiscouragepodcast
May 28, 2020
Episode 04 : Champion vs. Coach
Being a human is hard, and it’s even harder if you’re doing it alone. In this episode, we talk about how to build your Courage Squad. Do you need a champion? A coach? Both? Which do you need and when, and how do you find them? How do you cultivate this in your existing relationships? Action step: Start identifying who is or could be on your own Courage Squad. We'd love to be on your Courage Squad! Here's 14 Days of Courage to get you started. Follow us on IG @costiscouragepodcast Need to see that awesome t-shirt Lisa wore while recording this episode? Here you go. Are you cracking in quarantine too??
May 21, 2020
Episode 03 : Melissa's Story of Courage
The PBS Series that Melissa’s been binge watching while staying-at-home. POLDARK In this episode we hear a bit more about what makes Melissa tick. In an event that seems like a lifetime ago, Melissa experienced a major setback. While none of us enjoys making a mistake, Melissa shares how making a “BIG MISTAKE” early in life crushed her confidence. Having the courage to ever step out again, working through the mess of the aftermath of her setback, and quieting the voice that wants to remind her of the failure have all been a part of the journey. Part of being human is making mistakes - it takes courage to accept this truth. Connect with Melissa : IG @melissacdyer_
May 14, 2020
Episode 02 : Lisa's Tale of Courage
In this episode, we get to know Lisa a bit more, and hear a slice of her story. Ten Things Other People Like but Lisa Doesn’t Wearing sneakers Jogging (and not because of sneakers) Saying “It is what it is” Mustard Pedicures Wedding receptions Fruit pies Being licked by a dog Caffeine Getting/having a tan (tough as a Floridian!) BONUS: cold weather (defined as anything below 70F!) Click here to see the picture from the one time Melissa has seen Lisa wear sneakers. Lisa shares from the time she had to muster up the most courage: allowing herself to be fully seen by others as her first marriage was falling apart. Unfortunately many of us have been through the pain of a broken relationship, and our hope is by hearing someone else’s story, how courage was cultivated even in excruciating circumstances, that you will be encouraged as you face hard things, and can learn how to go gently with yourself as you reflect back on these kinds of painful situations. Being a human is hard...the cost is so much courage! Connect with Lisa: IG: @drlisakbaker
May 14, 2020
Episode 01 : What is Courage?
In this episode Lisa and Melissa delve into "what is courage?" Hear about our courageous beginning over one word. We'll invite you to: Develop your own perspective of courage. Define fear's place in relationship to courage. Understand the role your beliefs play in your understanding of courage. Learn how to cultivate courage - and recognize where you need it most. Quote from the episode, " Courage is like a muscle, if you don't use it you lose it." ACTION STEPS : Define courage for yourself and find areas of your life where you need it. Ask someone who loves you where they see you may need to live with courage. PRINTABLE FREEBIE listing Melissa's "Attributes of Courage" and the Maya Angelou quote. Connect with us on FACEBOOK and INSTAGRAM  JOIN our "Courage Squad" and get 14 Days of Courage delivered to your inbox. 
May 14, 2020
Episode 00 : Show Trailer
Welcome to The Cost is Courage - a conversational podcast about how hard it is to be human and the courage required. Author and Courage Champion, Melissa C. Dyer and Psychologist and Courage Coach, Dr. Lisa K. Baker talk about often overlooked everyday situations that call us to exercise courage to do life well. Full episodes begin May 14th 2020 with new episodes dropping every Thursday. You can catch a teaser here where Melissa and Lisa reveal what you can expect from the show, talking about social distancing and boundaries. To get the latest subscribe to the show.  Here's a link the the video we mention in the episode - you're welcome! Get more from the hosts at:
April 13, 2020