
The Forest School Podcast
By Lewis Ames and Wem Southerden


Ep 219 - Giants and Beasts with Ruth Webb: Part 2
In this richly reflective and gently irreverent episode of The Forest School Podcast, Lewis and Wem are joined once again by artist and activist Ruth Webb of The Lost Giants. From slug cohabitation to giant curlews, this episode weaves together humour, art, neurodivergence, community ritual, and the slippery intersections between protest and play. Together, the trio explore how masks and costumes can invite unmasking, how children become wild elements in the woods, and how activism might flourish through joy rather than solemnity. They also dive into the role of “fooling,” go-betweens, and teasers in processions, and examine how these ancient roles can create safety, connection, and transformation. As they near the end, a moving conversation about hopelessness, beauty, and finding meaning in collective creation becomes a quiet ritual of its own.
⏱ Chapter Timings:
00:00 – Slugs, pets, and cross-species adoption
01:41 – Giants, Ghost Woods, and the mysterious new slug beast
06:00 – Masking, unmasking, and slipping into forest school skins
09:25 – Becoming more-than-human through imaginative embodiment
13:15 – How communities prepare to meet a giant
15:05 – Dancers, go-betweens, and the art of fooling
22:00 – Activism, humour, and the risks of misreading the tone
26:21 – Protest, presence, and the potential of artistic action
32:35 – Giant curlews, media coverage, and public perception
36:49 – Community, celebration, and the quiet resistance of joy
🌲 Keywords: Forest School activism, masking and unmasking, fooling, teasers, Lost Giants, protest art, creative resistance, neurodivergence, child-led play, giant puppets, ritual and joy, community connection, visual storytelling, wild embodiment, playful protest
🔖 Hashtags:
#ForestSchool #OutdoorEducation #ProtestArt #CreativeActivism #LostGiants #ChildLedLearning #RitualAndPlay #NatureConnection #MoreThanHuman #ForestSchoolPodcast #CommunityCreativity #WildEmbodiment #Fooling #GiantPuppets #HopeThroughArt
🌐 More Episodes & Support:
Listen to more and access resources at www.theforestschoolpodcast.com
Support the show and join our community at www.patreon.com/theforestschoolpodcast
For questions, feedback, or collaboration: admin@theforestschoolpodcast.com

Ep 218 - Giants and Beasts with Ruth Webb
In this joyful and wide-ranging episode of The Forest School Podcast, Lewis and Wem sit down with artist, activist and Forest School leader Ruth Webb. Known for her giant puppets, folk beasts and street processions, Ruth shares the rich history and creative power of giant-making in the UK. The conversation explores how these large-scale creations connect communities, invite activism, and spark playful engagement with the land. Ruth explains the cultural roots of British giants, the story behind Dartmoor’s legendary Crocken, and the making of the Rewilderbeest – a plant-loving folk beast built from local, foraged materials. Together they unpack the role of masks, puppets, and participation in outdoor education, activism and folklore. From the politics of taking up space in the streets to the logistics of giant storage, this episode will leave you inspired to dream big, build bigger, and involve your whole community in the creative process.
⏱ Chapter Timings:
00:00 – Hot BluTAC debates and meeting Ruth
01:10 – Ruth’s journey: theatre, activism, Forest School and giant-making
03:45 – The folk history of British giants and their political roots
06:30 – Symbolism, community presence, and reclaiming public space
11:10 – Introducing the Rewilderbeest: folk traditions, materials and land connection
16:20 – Playful plant identification with the Rewilderbeest and engaging children
21:40 – Masks, puppets and why words matter: breaking the third wall in folk performance
29:45 – Crocken: Dartmoor legend, Right to Roam activism, and building community identity
36:15 – Tips for community builds: low-skill entry points and meaningful materials
41:10 – Storage solutions and keeping giants alive across the years
🌲 Keywords: Forest School arts, community processions, British folk traditions, giant making, Dartmoor folklore, environmental activism, Rewilderbeest, Crocken, Right to Roam, outdoor theatre, creative community projects, folk puppetry, participatory art, mask-making, land connection, Forest School storytelling, outdoor education arts, child-led creativity
🔖 Hashtags:
#ForestSchool #OutdoorEducation #CommunityArt #GiantMaking #FolkTraditions #EnvironmentalActivism #ForestSchoolPodcast #Rewilderbeest #DartmoorGiants #RightToRoam #ChildLedLearning #OutdoorTheatre #ProcessionalArt #ForestSchoolCreativity #StorytellingInNature
🌐 More Episodes & Support:
Listen to more and access resources at www.theforestschoolpodcast.com
Support the show and join our community at www.patreon.com/theforestschoolpodcast
For questions, feedback, or collaboration: admin@theforestschoolpodcast.com

Ep 217 - Tangents, Shrews and Robin Ince
In this lively and tangential episode of The Forest School Podcast, Lewis and Gemma reflect on an evening spent seeing Robin Ince speak about neurodivergence, ADHD, and the importance of passion. From rogue pygmy shrews to ultraviolet birds and eccentric geniuses, the conversation weaves in and out of the evening’s takeaways, unravelling what it means to be unashamedly interested in the world. They explore the power of identity through diagnosis, why tangents are a feature not a bug, and how environments can welcome authenticity. The episode also touches on hierarchical values in outdoor spaces, the performative pressure of being “an expert,” and why imperfect passion beats polished performance. If you’ve ever loved something deeply and been told to tone it down—this one’s for you.
🌿 Sponsor Shout-Out:
This episode is sponsored by TENTSILE, the original tree tent. Get 10% off any order with the code ForestChildren10 at www.tentsile.com
We’re also proudly supported by Chris Holland, author of A Kaleidoscope of Plants. Get 10% off his beautiful 54-page guide when you use code ForestSchoolPodcast at this link: https://chrisholland.myshopify.com/?ref=ForestSchoolPodcast
⏱ Chapter Timings:
00:00 – Pygmy shrew panic and under-the-table guests
01:47 – Shrews taste bad: prey, predators, and side quests
03:20 – Ultraviolet vision and birds seeing wee trails
05:08 – “Like birds do”: comedy stories and water spitting
06:22 – Reflections on Robin Ince’s talk and ADHD diagnosis
08:01 – Two sides of the coin: forgetfulness and brilliance
09:45 – The beauty of subjective, honest storytelling
12:54 – Vulnerability, unmasking, and joy without shame
15:01 – Hierarchies of value: washing up vs wonder
21:26 – The transactional myth of brilliance and acceptance
🌲 Keywords: ADHD, neurodivergence, Robin Ince, authentic passion, Forest School values, child-led learning, identity through diagnosis, intersectionality, nature-based education, humour in education, embracing tangents, pedagogy and personality, outdoor learning philosophy, invisible struggles, joy and vulnerability
🔖 Hashtags:
#ForestSchool #Neurodivergence #AuthenticLearning #OutdoorEducation #ChildLedLearning #RobinInce #Neurodiversity #Unmasking #JoyInLearning #ImperfectPassion #EducationWithoutJudgement #ForestSchoolPodcast #InclusiveEducation #NatureBasedLearning
🌐 More Episodes & Support:
Listen to more and access resources at www.theforestschoolpodcast.com**
Support the show and join our community at www.patreon.com/theforestschoolpodcast**
For questions, feedback, or collaboration: admin@theforestschoolpodcast.com

Ep 216 - Ecology and Wildlife Legal Protections with Tilly Tilbrook
In this jam-packed episode of The Forest School Podcast, Lewis and Wem are joined by ecologist Tilly Tilbrook to unpack the truth behind the controversial Planning and Infrastructure Bill and its implications for UK wildlife. Tilly brings decades of ecological fieldwork, policy experience, and field stories—from dormice in torpor to Pringles-tube water voles—to help listeners understand what’s really happening on the ground. The episode explores what ‘protected species’ legally means, how ecology impacts (or doesn’t) the planning process, and the ripple effects of changes to legislation. With clarity, humour, and urgency, Tilly shares why conservation matters, how Forest School leaders can connect children to real local data, and why the narrative around bats, tunnels, and housebuilding needs serious rethinking. A vital listen for anyone who works outdoors, loves wildlife, or wants to understand the deeper systems shaping our landscapes.
🎧 Chapter Timings:
00:00 – Dormice, water voles, and squirrel heists: Tilly's journey into ecology
03:39 – Favourite animal encounters and what ecologists actually do on-site
10:03 – What species are protected in the UK—and how?
14:18 – Legal definitions of protection, licenses, and enforcement challenges
21:40 – Have protections worked? Otters, pesticides, mink, and water voles
30:48 – The “bat tunnel” myth and scapegoating conservation
35:57 – What the Planning and Infrastructure Bill really proposes
38:08 – Mitigation hierarchy vs “cash to trash”: skipping straight to offsetting
43:46 – Campaigns, lobbying, and the hope for changes in the House of Lords
46:41 – What Forest Schools can do to support local habitats
49:37 – Bug hotels, dead hedges, and the truth about “eco” gardening gear
🌲 Keywords: Planning and Infrastructure Bill, protected species, UK wildlife law, ecologist role, Forest School habitats, biodiversity, environmental justice, mitigation hierarchy, nature connection, citizen science, conservation careers, water voles, dormice, bats, squirrels, offsetting, habitat creation, bug hotels, environmental education
🔖 Hashtags:
#ForestSchool #OutdoorEducation #EcologyExplained #WildlifeProtection #NatureConservation #PlanningBill #EnvironmentalJustice #ChildLedLearning #HabitatCreation #BugHotelTruth #NatureRecovery #UKWildlife #ForestSchoolPodcast #BatsNotScapegoats #ScruffyGardens
🌐 More Episodes & Support:
Listen to more and access resources at www.theforestschoolpodcast.com
Support the show and join our community at www.patreon.com/theforestschoolpodcast
For questions, feedback, or collaboration: admin@theforestschoolpodcast.com

Ep 215 - Culture Soup and a Catch-Up
In this joyful, wide-ranging episode of The Forest School Podcast, Lewis and Wem reunite to reflect on everything from folk rituals and land access to academic shifts and experimental puppetry. They share stories of Devon’s eccentric festivals, the power of whimsy, and the Supreme Court decision that restored the right to wild camp on Dartmoor. The conversation weaves through giant puppets, PhD plans, hosting badges, and the realities of holding space for community ritual while honouring individual autonomy. Lewis also discusses wearing a utility kilt in the woods—what inspired it, how it’s been received, and why it’s become more than just a fashion choice. Packed with laughter, cultural insight, and reflections on change, this episode is a celebration of curiosity, connection, and embracing the unpredictable.
🎧 Chapter Timings:
00:00 – Podcast returns: chaotic intros and nostalgic deep dives
04:00 – Wem’s big news: starting a PhD in play at Forest School
07:17 – Filling your cup: Lewis’ folk festival field trips
08:57 – The Hunting of the Earl of Rhone and Devon’s wild traditions
16:17 – Dartmoor rights: camping bans, community resistance, and the Supreme Court win
26:05 – Giant puppets, rituals, and planning a white stag procession
29:44 – Autonomy vs community: can you co-create and still be child-led?
36:14 – Lewis’ kilt experiment: climate, agency, and unexpected advocacy
43:54 – The hostess badge, patching crotches, and forest fashion
48:00 – Books on the horizon and the future of the podcast
🌲 Keywords: Dartmoor right to roam, Forest School podcast, folk traditions, Hunting the Earl of Rhone, giant puppets, child-led learning, community ritual, autonomy in education, whimsy and play, PhD research in play, forest fashion, utility kilt, patching clothes, woodland learning
🔖 Hashtags:
#ForestSchool #OutdoorEducation #RightToRoam #Dartmoor #ChildLedLearning #WhimsyMatters #CommunityRitual #ForestSchoolPodcast #GiantPuppets #PlayBasedLearning #LandAccess #NatureBasedEducation #FolkTraditions #EducationalAutonomy #UtilityKilt
🌐 More Episodes & Support:
Listen to more and access resources at www.theforestschoolpodcast.com
Support the show and join our community at www.patreon.com/theforestschoolpodcast
For questions, feedback, or collaboration: admin@theforestschoolpodcast.com

Ep 214: Consistency is a Myth
In this episode, Lewis and Wem dig deep into the concept of consistency—a term often upheld as sacred in education and parenting, but is it all it’s cracked up to be?
They explore the tension between consistency of routine vs consistency of relationship, how being overly consistent can lead to masking (for both adults and children), and why the pressure to deliver the same experience every time is unrealistic—and possibly unhelpful.
From donkeys at the sanctuary to dopamine in disrupted routines, this is a wide-ranging, honest conversation about autonomy, vulnerability, and the stories we tell ourselves about being “good” educators.
Whether you’re new to Forest School or 10 years in, this one might just shift how you think about planning, presence, and being truly learner-centred.
🧭 Topics Covered:
Consistency of output vs consistency of intention
How routine can become oppressive
The moral undertones of “being consistent”
Attachment, co-regulation & modelling emotional honesty
Why inconsistency can be a gift
Cultural pressures to be habit-forming machines
How we frame expectations for ourselves and our learners
Soft skills, autonomy, and agency in outdoor education
Real talk about what consistency demands in unpaid labour
🔗 Listen Here:
🌲 Spotify → Forest School Podcast on Spotify
🍏 Apple → Forest School Podcast on Apple
🌐 Web → www.forestschoolpodcast.com
📺 YouTube → Watch the episode on YouTube
📬 Get In Touch:
💬 Instagram: @forestschoolpodcast
📧 Email: admin@theforestschoolpodcast.com
📌 Tags & Keywords:
#forestschool #outdooreducation #childledlearning #consistencyvsintention #processoverproduct #relationshipfirst #softskills #emotionalintelligence #naturebasedlearning #educationphilosophy #forestschoolleaders #neurodiversityaffirming #coachingnotcompliance #autonomyineducation #honestteaching #vulnerabilityineducation

Ep 213: Is making kids tidy up a part of Forest School?
In this episode, Lewis and Wem are joined by Justine from Curious and Kind Nature Play in Florida. The conversation began when all three spoke at a webinar hosted by Peter Gray and quickly turned into a shared curiosity around the tensions of tidying up in play-based education.
This is not a how-to guide. It is a rich exploration of roles, expectations, neurodivergence, community care, and the invisible moral weight we place on children when it comes to cleaning up. Whether you model tidying, mandate it, ignore it entirely, or wrestle with it daily, this episode invites you to reflect deeply on what your approach communicates about power, responsibility, and play.
🟩 Chapter timings
00:00 Welcome and pizza oven distractions
01:00 How Lewis and Justine connected
02:00 Justine introduces Curious and Kind Nature Play
05:00 Florida’s funding for home educators
06:30 Structures that support flexibility and autonomy
10:00 Opening the conversation on tidying
12:00 Justine’s approach to winding down and cleaning up
14:00 Community care and shared spaces
16:00 When tidying up becomes adult-directed
20:00 Individualism and shared responsibility
22:00 Executive function and play endings
25:00 Shifting roles as facilitators
27:00 Play residue and resource placement
30:00 Who defines tidy
33:00 Visual cues and neurodivergence
36:00 Long sessions and timing pressures
38:00 Tidying as moral pressure or community practice
40:00 Role of the facilitator and equity in expectations
43:00 The notice and do approach
48:00 When tidying inhibits play and creativity
50:00 Regret, repair, and adult reflection
53:00 Adult overwhelm and honest communication
59:00 Pine needles and closing thoughts
60:00 Where to find Justine and Curious and Kind

Ep 212: Does Forest School need more 'Clean' Language?
🌿 What Is Clean Language & Should You Use It Outdoors?
In this introspective solo episode, Lewis reflects on Contempt to Curiosity by Caitlin Walker—an exploration of Clean Language, group metaphors, and truly non-judgemental communication.
What begins as a quiet Friday morning in the woods becomes a deeply personal and practical unpacking of:
What Clean Language actually is and where it came from 👂
Why exploring someone’s “inner world” is powerful—and risky
How metaphor can unify (or divide) groups 🌀
Practical uses of Clean Language in Forest School
Whether this approach is clunky-but-useful—or core practice
💬 Plus, Lewis shares a raw personal story of being on the receiving end of Clean Language coaching… and the surprising discomfort that followed.
🌟 Sponsors: TENTSILE & Chris Holland
🌲 TENTSILE – Create magical canopy spaces with TENTSILE’s world-famous hammock tents. Use code ForestChildren10 for 10% off at www.tentsile.com
🍃 Chris Holland – Discover Nature Connection & the 54-Plant Guide—perfect for Forest School leaders. Use code FORESTPOD for 15% off at
👉 https://chrisholland.myshopify.com/?ref=ForestSchoolPodcast
⏳ Episode Chapters
00:00 – Intro, birdsong, forest stillness 🌳
02:00 – Feeling isolated as a leader
04:00 – Housekeeping & community shout-out
06:00 – What is Clean Language? Who created it?
08:30 – Metaphors, coaching & autonomy
10:00 – The “clunky but useful” language tools
13:00 – Forest School Association anecdote
20:00 – What “Smell. Soil.” taught Lewis
27:00 – What Clean Language missed in his response
30:00 – Can metaphors create better group cohesion?
33:00 – Why Forest School needs shared metaphors
36:00 – Facilitating feelings, not just activities
40:00 – Cocktail bars & metaphor-building 🍸
44:00 – When “mycelial network” isn’t enough 🍄
47:00 – Clean Language as a practice addon—not a necessity
50:00 – Is this book for beginners or advanced practice?
📚 Mentioned in This Episode
Contempt to Curiosity by Caitlin Walker
David Grove’s Clean Language
Nonviolent Communication (NVC)
Forest School Association Strategy Weekend
Declarative language in outdoor education
“Mycelial Network” (metaphor bingo!) 🍄
💬 Join the Discussion
🌱 What metaphor would your Forest School group use to describe itself?
Do you already use metaphors in your practice—or avoid them entirely?
We’d love to hear YOUR stories. Drop us a message on social media or email admin@theforestschoolpodcast.com
🎧 Listen now:
🎙️ Spotify: shorturl.at/4WdyI
📺 YouTube: shorturl.at/3qOUs
📻 Apple Podcasts: shorturl.at/FxfMF
💻 RSS: shorturl.at/A0kx9

Ep 211: 'Total Observation' isn't helping childhood
🌳 Forest School vs the Panopticon: Who’s Watching the Children?
In this solo episode, Lewis dives deep into the haunting metaphor of the Panopticon—a 1700s prison designed for total surveillance—and how its legacy lives on in modern classrooms, school playgrounds, and even parenting styles.
⚖️ From architectural control to digital surveillance, Lewis explores:
What “total observation” does to a child’s sense of self 👁️
Why today’s children may be observed from wake to sleep
The impact of surveillance on risk-taking, identity, and creativity 🎭
How Forest School sites can either replicate or resist the Panopticon
Practical ways to foster pockets of privacy in outdoor settings 🌲
This is a big-thinking episode, inviting Forest School leaders, educators, and parents to ask:
💭 How much observation is too much? And what happens when we let go?
🌲 TENTSILE – Transform your site with TENTSILE’s innovative hammock tents. Perfect for Forest School adventures. Use code ForestChildren10 for 10% off at www.tentsile.com
🍃 Chris Holland – Discover Chris Holland’s 54-page Plant Guide – a practical tool for outdoor learning. Get 15% off using code FORESTPOD at our affiliate link: https://chrisholland.myshopify.com/?ref=ForestSchoolPodcast
00:00 – Intro & glorious sunshine ☀️
02:00 – What is the Panopticon? History & design
06:00 – Cuba, Castro & 3000 silences
08:30 – How schools mirror prison architecture
11:30 – Modern childhood as constant surveillance
14:00 – Should children be allowed privacy?
16:30 – When observation is helpful 👀
18:30 – Teachers feeling watched too
21:00 – Forest School vs classroom surveillance
24:00 – Instagram vs authenticity in outdoor play 📸
27:00 – Why privacy matters for relationships
30:00 – Class sizes, hedges & playground control
33:30 – What we give up in outdoor education
35:00 – Personal reflection & closing thoughts
Jeremy Bentham’s Panopticon
The Book You Wish Your Parents Had Read – Philippa Perry (referenced in context)
Sarah Ockwell-Smith episode on digital surveillance
💡 Do children need privacy to grow? Or does supervision help them feel safe?
Let us know your thoughts—comment on Spotify, YouTube or email us at admin@theforestschoolpodcast.com.
🎧 Find us everywhere:
🎙️ Spotify: shorturl.at/4WdyI
📺 YouTube: shorturl.at/3qOUs
📻 Apple Podcasts: shorturl.at/FxfMF
💻 RSS: shorturl.at/A0kx9
#ForestSchool #OutdoorEducation #ChildhoodSurveillance #Panopticon #NatureConnection #ForestSchoolPodcast #ChildLedLearning #EducationalPhilosophy #PlayPrivacy #SlowEducation #AlternativeEducation #SafeRisk #ForestSchoolDesign
🌟 Sponsors: TENTSILE & Chris Holland⏳ Episode Chapters📚 Mentioned in This Episode💬 Join the Conversation

Ep 210: 👥🧠Groups have memories, but communities have history. 🌲📚
This week, Lewis is solo in the woods reflecting on a big question: what makes a Forest School site feel alive with history? 🌿
He explores the difference between groups that share memories and communities that carry history, drawing on stories, objects, rituals, and routines from nearly a decade of outdoor learning.
This episode is packed with practical reflections for Forest School leaders:
How to foster a living sense of community through storytelling
The power of leaving evidence of past play
Why your site doesn’t need to be “tidy” to be effective
How to embrace rituals that evolve, rather than enforce
What it means to co-create history with children
Whether you're building a new site or decades into your Forest School journey, this episode offers ideas to deepen your space’s soul. 🪵✨
🌟 Sponsored by TENTSILE & Chris Holland
🌲 TENTSILE – Hammock tents that transform your Forest School site into an unforgettable adventure. Durable, practical, and perfect for the outdoors. Use code ForestChildren10 for 10% off at www.tentsile.com.
🍃 Chris Holland – Enhance your nature knowledge with Chris Holland’s 54-page Plant Guide—a treasure trove for Forest School educators. Use code FORESTPOD for 15% off at our affiliate link: https://chrisholland.myshopify.com/?ref=ForestSchoolPodcast
00:00 – Wonky intros & mic experiments 🎤
02:00 – Rocking chairs, baby names & volunteer honouring
04:00 – School sites vs embedded Forest School sites
08:00 – The difference between group memories and community history
12:30 – Inheriting play, space markers, and unsaid rituals
18:00 – Nest building as evolving ritual 🌸
23:00 – What counts as ‘true’ history in a play space?
26:00 – Peer storytelling, deer legends & golden apples 🦌
30:00 – Objects as story prompts: woodworking tables, tree carvings
34:00 – Funerals for swings & retiring equipment
37:00 – History as inclusion: offering belonging through time
41:00 – The safety of being one story among many
43:00 – Co-creating history, not enforcing it
TENTSILE Hammock Tents – Use code ForestChildren10
Chris Holland’s Plant Guide – Use code FORESTPOD
Ben Edge episode on rituals (search “rituals” in our back catalogue)
💬 Share your thoughts on social media or email admin@theforestschoolpodcast.com
🗣️ Send us a voice note via Instagram or Facebook!
Find us everywhere:
🎙️ Spotify: shorturl.at/4WdyI
📺 YouTube: shorturl.at/3qOUs
📻 Apple Podcasts: shorturl.at/FxfMF
💻 RSS: shorturl.at/A0kx9
#ForestSchool #OutdoorEducation #ForestSchoolPodcast #NaturePlay #GroupToCommunity #NatureConnection #CoCreatingHistory #StorytellingInTheWoods #PlayBasedLearning
⏳ Episode Chapters📚 Mentioned in This Episode🎧 Like what you heard?

Ep 209: ‘Forecasting’ or being ‘Triggered’? How do you react to uncomfortable play?
🎭 Are You Triggered by Play? Why It Matters.
Ever watched children playing and felt uneasy about what was happening? Whether it’s rough-and-tumble, rule-breaking, or risky play, adults have deep-seated responses to certain types of play—often without realising it. But is our discomfort helping or hindering children’s learning?
🌳 Key topics in this episode:
- What does it mean to be “triggered” by play? 🧠
- Why adults react emotionally to certain play types 🔥
- Rough play, risky play, and rule-breaking: the big three ⚖️
- How our own childhood experiences shape our responses 🎒
- Tools for staying grounded and supporting all play 🌱
This episode explores how Forest School leaders, teachers, and parents can manage their instincts and create a space where play can thrive.
🌲 TENTSILE – Take your outdoor adventures to the next level with TENTSILE's innovative hammock tents! Designed for Forest School leaders & outdoor educators, these tree tents create magical outdoor experiences. Use code ForestChildren10 for 10% off at www.tentsile.com.
🍃 Chris Holland – Love nature? Get Chris Holland’s 54-page Plant Guide, packed with essential plant ID tips. Use code FORESTPOD for 15% off via our exclusive affiliate link: chrisholland.myshopify.com/?ref=ForestSchoolPodcast.
🎤 00:00 – Intro: Where’s Wem? (And course updates!)
🌱 04:00 – The Facebook video that sparked this discussion
🛑 08:00 – Why adults “shut down” certain play types
⚖️ 12:30 – The difference between pro-social & anti-social play
🚀 18:00 – How our own childhood shapes our play responses
🔄 22:00 – The power of “forecasting” vs. “overreacting”
🎭 30:00 – How to check yourself & avoid shutting down play
🌳 40:00 – Building a Forest School space where all play is valid
- 🌍 TENTSILE Hammock Tents – Use ForestChildren10 for 10% off at www.tentsile.com
- 🍃 Chris Holland’s Plant Guide – Use FORESTPOD for 15% off at chrisholland.myshopify.com/?ref=ForestSchoolPodcast
- 📖 Kindling Playwork – A deep dive into playwork & self-reflection
- 🎥 Watch this episode on YouTube: [Insert Link]
💡 What type of play makes YOU uncomfortable? Have you ever stepped in too soon? Tell us in the comments or email admin@forestschoolpodcast.com!
🎧 Listen & subscribe:
🎙️ Spotify: shorturl.at/4WdyI
📺 YouTube: shorturl.at/3qOUs
📻 Apple Podcasts: shorturl.at/FxfMF
💻 RSS: shorturl.at/A0kx9
#ForestSchool #OutdoorEducation #ChildLedLearning #RiskyPlay #NaturePlay #ForestSchoolPodcast #AlternativeEducation #SelfDirectedLearning #Playwork
🌟 Sponsored by TENTSILE & Chris Holland⏳ Episode Chapters & Timings📚 Resources & Links Mentioned💬 Join the Conversation!

Ep 208: 🌳A review of Sandi Toksvig’s Great British Woodland Project!
Ever dreamed of buying your own woodland? 🌲 In this episode, we dive into Sandi Toksvig’s Great British Woodland Revival and what it really takes to restore a forest. From unexpected costs (£500 for EVERYTHING?!) to the emotional connection of managing land, we break down what this show got right—and what it left out.
🎒 Key topics in this episode:
The realities of woodland management (spoiler: it’s expensive!) 💰
Why Sandi’s journey isn’t just for TV—it’s an education in itself 📺
How experts like ‘Pete the Pond’ and tree surgeons bring woodlands back to life 🌊🪵
The emotional connection of land stewardship & why it matters ❤️
Should humans be kept out of woodlands for conservation? 🤔
If you’ve ever thought about owning or managing a woodland, this episode is for you! 🌿
🌟 Sponsored by TENTSILE & Chris Holland
🌲 TENTSILE – Transform your outdoor adventures with TENTSILE's incredible hammock tents! Perfect for Forest School leaders & outdoor educators. Use code ForestChildren10 for 10% off at www.tentsile.com.
🍃 Chris Holland – Want to connect with nature? Get Chris Holland’s 54-page Plant Guide, packed with essential plant ID tips. Use code FORESTPOD for 15% off via our exclusive affiliate link: chrisholland.myshopify.com/?ref=ForestSchoolPodcast.
⏳ Episode Chapters & Timings
🎤 00:00 – Janky recording setups & rocking chair podcasting 🎙️
📺 02:00 – What is Sandi Toksvig’s woodland show really about?
🌳 05:00 – Buying a woodland: dream vs. reality
💰 10:00 – Why does every woodland project cost £500?!
🦉 15:30 – Meet the experts: pond builders, tree surgeons & bat ecologists
🌿 22:00 – Should humans be kept out of woodlands for conservation?
🏡 30:00 – What to know before buying or managing land
🤔 40:00 – Would we have done things differently in our own woodland?
📚 Resources & Links Mentioned
📺 Sandi Toksvig’s Great British Woodland Revival (Channel 4)
🌍 TENTSILE Hammock Tents – Use ForestChildren10 for 10% off at www.tentsile.com
🍃 Chris Holland’s Plant Guide – Use FORESTPOD for 15% off at https://chrisholland.myshopify.com/?ref=lwilouig
🎥 Watch this episode on YouTube:
💬 Join the Conversation!
💡 Would YOU buy a woodland? What’s your dream restoration project? Tell us in the comments or email us at admin@forestschoolpodcast.com!
🎧 Listen & subscribe:
🎙️ Spotify: shorturl.at/4WdyI
📺 YouTube: shorturl.at/3qOUs
📻 Apple Podcasts: shorturl.at/FxfMF
💻 RSS: shorturl.at/A0kx9
#WoodlandRestoration #ForestSchoolPodcast #NatureConnection #OutdoorEducation #SandiToksvig #GreatBritishWoodland #WoodlandManagement #Rewilding

Ep 207: The Art Of Folk Traditions: A Conversation with Ben Edge
🎙️ Folklore, Ritual & Art: A Chat with Ben Edge
This week, we're joined by the incredible Ben Edge, artist, filmmaker, and author of Folklore Rising, for a deep dive into British folklore, ritual, and the role of art in preserving tradition. 🌿🎭
From Morris dancing in trainers to building new traditions, we explore how folklore shapes identity, community, and creativity. And yes, we get into the wildest traditions, including Padstow’s Obby Oss, the Garland King, and a Swiss festival of Pretty, Ugly, and Pretty-Ugly creatures. 🦴🐎
✔️ Folklore Revival or Renaissance? Why folk traditions are more alive than ever 🔥
✔️ Who 'owns' a tradition? How communities shape and reshape rituals 🤹
✔️ The Role of Art – Is capturing a tradition the same as being part of it? 🎨
✔️ Reinventing the Past – What happens when a ‘centuries-old’ tradition is actually Victorian marketing? 🤯
✔️ Morris Dancing & New Traditions – Wem joins a side, learns ‘Gingerbread’, and uncovers surprisingly modern origins 🕺
✔️ The Black Shuck Festival – How a modern event became instantly legendary 🐺⚡
✔️ Right to Roam & Common Ground – Land access, folklore activism, and reclaiming connection to place 🏞️
✔️ The Role of ‘Pretty, Ugly & Pretty-Ugly’ in Swiss Folklore – And why it speaks to all of us 😈🌸
Ben also shares stories from his upcoming London exhibition at Fitzrovia Chapel in November 2025, and his newly curated ‘Common Ground’ exhibition in Cheltenham – tackling land access, art, and our relationship to nature. 🎭🏕️
🔥 TENTSILE – The ultimate tree tents for outdoor educators & adventurers. Use ForestChildren10 for 10% off at www.tentsile.com.
🌱 Chris Holland’s Plant Guide – Get 15% off this essential nature ID guide using FORESTPOD via our exclusive affiliate link.
🔗 Follow Ben Edge: Instagram (@BenEdgeArt) & Website
🏛️ Common Ground Exhibition (Cheltenham, The Wilson Collection) – Opening Feb 21, 2025
🎨 Fitzrovia Chapel Solo Show (London, Nov 2025) – More details coming soon!
🎭 Black Shuck Festival – Suffolk’s newest old tradition 🐺
📖 Folklore Rising – Available in print, eBook & Audible
⏳ 00:00 – Intro: Trainers, traditions & sticky notes everywhere
🎭 05:00 – What is folklore ‘Renaissance’?
🌿 12:00 – Padstow’s Obby Oss: Madness or meaning?
🕺 18:00 – Morris Dancing: Ancient or invented?
🐺 25:00 – The Black Shuck Festival: The birth of a new tradition
🎨 35:00 – The role of art in folklore
🔥 45:00 – How do we start or revive traditions?
🎭 55:00 – Ben’s upcoming exhibitions & projects
🌿 What folk traditions do YOU love? Have you started or revived one? Let us know at admin@forestschoolpodcast.com or drop a comment!
🎧 Listen & subscribe on:
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#Folklore #BritishTraditions #Rituals #FolkArt #MorrisDancing #Padstow #ForestSchoolPodcast #AlternativeEducation #SelfDirectedLearning
🌲 Key Topics in This Episode:🛠️ Sponsors & Discounts📚 Resources & Links Mentioned:⏳ Episode Chapters & Timings:💬 Join the Conversation!

Ep 206: Nature Saturation: Can You Have Too Much?
🌿 Nature Saturation: Can You Have TOO Much Nature?
In this episode, we dive into the idea ofNature Saturation – can there betoo much nature in outdoor learning? 🤔 From Forest School names to nature-themed everything, when does immersive nature connection becometoo much of a good thing?
🌲Key topics in this episode:
- What isNature Saturation, and is it a real issue? 🌳
- The balance betweennature connection & personal interests 🎮📖
- Are some Forest School settingstoo rigidly nature-focused?
- Howsocial play & personal identity shape outdoor learning 🏕️
- Can kids self-direct in nature, or do we over-curate? 🤯
We also readhilarious real-life Forest School job descriptions, including:
🦿Squirrel Funeral Director (yes, really!)
💇Woodland Hairstylist – tree sap in the fringe is no joke!
Plus, we take on anotherSurprise Student challenge:Could we run a Forest School session for Pikachu & Thor? ⚡⚒️
🌲TENTSILE – Take your outdoor adventures to the next level with TENTSILE's incredible hammock tents! Perfect for Forest School leaders & outdoor educators. Usecode ForestChildren10 for10% off atwww.tentsile.com.
🍃Chris Holland – Love nature? Get Chris Holland’s54-page Plant Guide, packed with essential plant ID tips. Usecode FORESTPOD for15% off via our exclusiveaffiliate link.
🎤 00:00 –Intro: Chaos, weird toast combos & nooch on everything
🌿 05:00 –What is ‘Nature Saturation’ & does it exist?
🐿️ 12:00 –Listener submission: Squirrel Funeral Director?!
💇 18:00 –The unexpected struggles of a Woodland Hairstylist
🔥 25:00 –Nature as a background vs. nature as the whole experience
⚡ 35:00 –Surprise Student: Could Pikachu & Thor thrive at Forest School?
🎶 45:00 –Do nature names, songs & rituals help or hinder learning?
📢 55:00 –Call to action: Have we got Nature Saturation all wrong?
- 🌍TENTSILE Hammock Tents – UseForestChildren10 for 10% off
- 🍃Chris Holland’s Plant Guide – UseFORESTPOD for 15% off
- 🎥Watch this episode on YouTube: [Insert Link]
💡Do you think there’s such a thing as ‘too much nature’? 🌳 Drop a comment below or email us atadmin@forestschoolpodcast.com!
🎧 Listen & subscribe on:
🎙️ Spotify: shorturl.at/4WdyI
📺 YouTube: shorturl.at/3qOUs
📻 Apple Podcasts: shorturl.at/FxfMF
💻 RSS: shorturl.at/A0kx9
#ForestSchool #OutdoorEducation #NaturePlay #WildLearning #ForestSchoolPodcast #AlternativeEducation #SelfDirectedLearning #ChildLedLearning
🌟 Sponsored by TENTSILE & Chris Holland⏳ Episode Chapters & Timings📚 Resources & Links Mentioned💬 Join the Conversation!

Ep 205 - How Schools Push Kids to Burnout: A Conversation with Dr Naomi Fisher
This week, we sit down withDr Naomi Fisher, psychologist and co-author ofThe Teenager’s Guide to Burnout, to discuss how modern schooling, social media, and pressure to achieve are pushing teens towards burnout. 😰
🎒Key topics in this episode:
- What burnoutreally is & how it differs from anxiety or depression
- Why teenagers are more stressed than ever before 😩
- Thered flags of burnout every parent & educator should know 🚨
- Howschool pressure, social media, and lack of choice fuel burnout 🔥
- Practicalways teens can take back control of their learning & wellbeing 💡
This episode isa must-listen for parents, educators, and anyone who cares about teenage mental health. 🌱
🌲TENTSILE – Take your outdoor adventures to the next level with TENTSILE's incredible hammock tents! Perfect for Forest School leaders & outdoor educators. Usecode ForestChildren10 for10% off atwww.tentsile.com.
🍃Chris Holland – Love nature? Get Chris Holland’s54-page Plant Guide, packed with essential plant ID tips. Usecode FORESTPOD for15% off via our exclusiveaffiliate link.
🎤 00:00 –Intro: Haunted cats & season updates 🐱👻
📚 02:00 –Introducing Naomi Fisher & her book on teenage burnout
🔥 05:00 –What burnout actually is & why teens are at risk
🏫 10:00 –School pressure vs. mental health: what needs to change?
📱 15:30 –The role of social media & online communities in burnout
🧠 22:00 –How parents & educators can support burnt-out teens
🚀 30:00 –Why quitting can be a good thing (and how to do it!)
🌳 40:00 –Forest School, agency & alternative education solutions
- 📖The Teenager’s Guide to Burnout by Naomi Fisher & Eliza Fricker
- 🌍TENTSILE Hammock Tents – UseForestChildren10 for 10% off
- 🍃Chris Holland’s Plant Guide – UseFORESTPOD for 15% off
- 🎥Watch this episode on YouTube: [Insert Link]
💡Ever felt burnt out as a teen? Or know a young person struggling with stress?Drop a comment below or email us atadmin@forestschoolpodcast.com!
🎧 Listen & subscribe on:
🎙️Spotify
📺YouTube
📻Apple Podcasts
💻RSS
#TeenageBurnout #ForestSchool #MentalHealthMatters #OutdoorEducation #AlternativeEducation #ForestSchoolPodcast #BurnoutRecovery #SelfDirectedLearning #NatureConnection
🌟 Sponsored by TENTSILE & Chris Holland⏳ Episode Chapters & Timings📚 Resources & Links Mentioned💬 Join the Conversation!
548K29zSKq6zM552SeqQ

Ep 204: Season 2 Begins: Lone Working, Weird Job Titles & Fart Consultancy
Welcome back to The Forest School Podcast! In this episode, we dive into the realities of lone working in outdoor education, the unexpected (and hilarious) responsibilities of a Forest School leader, and the importance of connection in a role that can often feel isolating.
🌲 Key topics in this episode:
The highs and lows of returning to work after illness.
Why Forest School leaders need mental health policies for lone working.
Listener-submitted job descriptions, including ‘Animal Hostage Negotiator’ and ‘Fart Consultant’!
The role of play and improvisation in outdoor education.
Introducing ‘Surprise Student’ – a new game where we design a Forest School session for famous figures.
Join us as we reflect, laugh, and explore how we can better support outdoor educators. 🌿
🌟 Sponsored by TENTSILE & Chris Holland
🌲 TENTSILE – Take your outdoor adventures to the next level with TENTSILE's incredible hammock tents! Designed for comfort, durability, and a unique Forest School experience, these tree tents are a game-changer. Use code ForestChildren10 for 10% off your purchase at www.tentsile.com.
🍃 Chris Holland – Want to deepen your nature connection? Get your hands on Chris Holland’s 54-page Plant Guide, an essential resource for Forest School leaders and nature enthusiasts. Use code FORESTPOD for 15% off via our exclusive affiliate link.
⏳ Episode Chapters & Chapters
00:00 Introduction and Personal Updates
03:58 Reflections on Productivity and Mental Health
09:12 The Importance of Connection and Support
13:10 Nature Connection and Personal Growth
17:13 Engaging with Nature and Crafting
21:15 Productivity Insights and New Practices
26:45 Fun and Games in Forest School
30:42 Animal Encounters and Job Descriptions
31:16 Emergency Privacy Screen Holder: A Forest School Job
34:35 Christmas Fart Consultant: The Humor of Forest School
37:49 Fart Consultancy: A Necessary Skill
42:20 Surprise Student: A Fun Game for Learning
44:49 Paddington Bear: A Forest School Intervention
51:01 Season Two: New Beginnings and Exciting Changes
📚 Resources & Links Mentioned
🌍 TENTSILE Hammock Tents – Use ForestChildren10 for 10% off.
🍃 Chris Holland’s Plant Guide – Use FORESTPOD for 15% off.
🎶 Song Mentioned: ‘Summer is Icumen In’ – the oldest secular English song.
🦉 Follow us on Instagram & Facebook: @ForestSchoolPodcast
🎧 Enjoyed this episode?
If you loved this episode, subscribe, leave a review, and share it with fellow Forest School leaders and outdoor educators! 🌿 Your support helps us grow and bring more valuable discussions to the community.
⭐ Listen & subscribe on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or Your Favourite Podcast App.
Have a weird job title from your Forest School experience? Send it to us at admin@forestschoolpodcast.com!
Happy exploring! 🌳✨

Ep 203: How Transparent Should You Be With Your Planning? With Lily Horseman
Episode Summary
In this lively and wide-ranging episode, Lewis sits down with Lily Horseman (Kindling Playwork) to explore how transparent you should be when planning Forest School sessions. They discuss the balance between being honest with children, parents, and fellow educators while preserving the magic of play and spontaneity. You’ll hear fascinating insights into building trust, navigating tangents, and making space for child-led exploration. Expect plenty of unexpected side quests, real-life anecdotes, and practical tips for Forest School leaders, early years practitioners, and nature enthusiasts.
🌲 Sponsor Shout-Out: TENTSILE
This episode is proudly sponsored by TENTSILE, creators of innovative hammock tents perfect for outdoor adventures.
Use code ForestChildren10 for a 10% discount on your purchase.
Explore their range at www.tentsile.com.
🍃 Special Thanks: Chris Holland
Big thanks to Chris Holland, author of the 54-page Plant Guide for nature enthusiasts.
Discover this invaluable resource at Chris’s Affiliate Link and use code FORESTPOD for a 15% discount.
- The reality behind what looks like effortless sessions.
- How to turn last-minute planning into intentional learning experiences.
- Strategies for pivoting your session mid-flow.
- Why responding to challenges with openness builds trust.
- The delicate balance between honesty and oversharing.
- Real-world consequences of revealing your entire plan to participants.
- A powerful reflection technique to unearth deeper learning journeys.
- How reflecting on your own practice boosts self-confidence and group engagement.
Mentioned Resources & Links
- Kindling Playwork (Lily’s Projects): Kindling Playwork Website
- Forest School Training Courses: Check local listings or professional bodies for accredited providers.
- TENTSILE: www.tentsile.com — Code: ForestChildren10
- Chris Holland’s Plant Guide: Use code FORESTPOD
Enjoyed the show? Please subscribe, leave a review, and share this episode with fellow educators and Forest School friends. Every review helps us reach more people looking to connect with nature, build community, and nurture child-led learning.
Stay wonky, stay curious, and see you in the next episode!
Chapters
00:00 The Thin Veneer of Professionalism
08:21 Adrenaline and Last-Minute Planning
11:00 Transparency in Educational Planning
14:16 The Spectrum of Learner-Centered Planning
19:01 Trust and Transparency in Education
21:55 The Balance of Transparency and Trust
24:57 Punitive Transparency in Education
27:57 The Role of Parents in Transparency
31:03 Justifying the Value of Forest School
34:00 Pedagogical Peep Show
36:11 Unveiling the Flow State
38:29 Navigating Team Dynamics
41:41 The Art of Connection
43:44 Reflective Practices in Education
46:37 Transparency and Vulnerability
49:55 The Role of Authenticity in Education
52:53 Branding and Community Engagement
56:50 Experimenting with Transparency
59:52 The North Star of Connection
01:02:28 Exploring the Conversation's Journey
01:02:57 Engagement and Future Plans

Ep 202: Can Rory Sutherland's 'Alchemy' Transform your Forest School Business?
Welcome back to the Forest School Podcast! In this episode, we dive into the intriguing ideas from Rory Sutherland's book Alchemy and explore how they can transform your Forest School practice. From the power of creative chaos to the impact of trust and training, this episode offers fresh perspectives for Forest School leaders, educators, and nature enthusiasts alike. 🌿
Join Lewis as he unpacks the concept of "scenting the soap," the role of placebos in Forest School, and the importance of heuristics in developing intuition and resilience in natural learning environments. Discover actionable insights and practical tips for enhancing your sessions and deepening connections with your participants.
🌲 Sponsorship Segment
This episode is proudly brought to you by our amazing sponsors:
TENTSILE: Transform your outdoor adventures with TENTSILE’s innovative hammock tents. Perfect for Forest School leaders and nature enthusiasts, these tents combine comfort, durability, and sustainability. Use code ForestChildren10 for a 10% discount on your next purchase. Explore their range at www.tentsile.com. 🌳
Chris Holland: Discover Chris Holland’s 54-page Plant Guide, an invaluable resource for identifying and celebrating nature’s flora. Get your copy at Chris’s Affiliate Link and use code FORESTPOD for a 15% discount. 🍃
⏱ Chapter Timings
Introduction and Updates (00:00 - 04:42): Lewis shares podcast updates, including new guests and Patreon exclusives.
Creative Chaos and Forest School (09:11 - 11:36): Embracing unpredictability and nature’s role in fostering creativity.
Placebos and Scenting the Soap (23:03 - 25:29): How small details, like blankets and rituals, shape participant experiences.
Trust, Training, and Marketing (14:00 - 16:21): The importance of signalling commitment and building reputation in Forest School.
Developing Heuristics through Play (27:54 - 30:14): Encouraging intuition and flexible thinking in natural learning environments.
Closing Thoughts (37:16 - 39:00): Reflections on balancing science and storytelling in Forest School.
📚 Resources Mentioned
Alchemy by Rory Sutherland: Find it on Amazon
TENTSILE Hammock Tents
Chris Holland’s Plant Guide
🌟 Support the Podcast
Enjoying the Forest School Podcast? Here’s how you can help us grow:
Subscribe: Never miss an episode! Available on Spotify, YouTube, and Apple Podcasts. 🎧
Review: Leave a 5-star review to help others discover the podcast. ⭐
Share: Spread the word on social media and with your Forest School community. 🦉
Patreon: Join our Patreon for exclusive content, including early access to episodes and CPD resources. Gift subscriptions now available for the holiday season! 🎁
👉 Visit www.forestschoolpodcast.com for more details.

Ep 201: Should YOU Know A Tree As An Individual Or A Species? w/ Casey and Alex from Completely Arbortrary
↓Click here for Limited Edition 'Magic in the Mud' merch! ↓
www.children-of-the-forest.com/forestsschoolpodcastshop
What does it mean to truly know a tree? In this episode of the Forest School Podcast, we’re joined by Casey Clapp and Alex Crowson, hosts of the Completely Arbortrary podcast, to explore the fascinating tension between knowing trees as species and connecting with them as individuals. With Casey’s arborist expertise and Alex’s creative perspective, this conversation is full of surprising insights and heartwarming anecdotes that will forever change the way you see the trees around you. From personal stories of childhood tree connections (00:46:00) to the science of epicormic growth as a survival strategy (00:13:00), and even the heroic tale of the 250-year-old Overlook Oak saved from development (00:47:00), this episode is a deep dive into the magic of trees.
Key moments include Casey’s explanation of how naming a tree can deepen our connection by opening doors to patterns in nature (00:24:00), and Alex’s take on how trees can serve as archetypes, representing broader narratives that connect us to the natural world (00:21:00). We also discuss the role of community in forming collective bonds with specific trees, like the symbolic Robin Hood Tree, and the fascinating cultural significance of heritage trees across the globe (00:32:00). A standout quote from Casey: “When you get to know a tree’s name, it’s like seeing an old friend—you recognize its story and place in the world.”
Listeners will walk away with actionable takeaways, including how to introduce children to tree identification, use storytelling to foster emotional connections with nature, and see trees as metaphors for resilience and growth. Resources and tools mentioned include Casey’s upcoming book on urban tree identification, the inspiring story of Australia’s tree billboards, and a nod to Tolkien’s deeply rooted (pun intended) fascination with individual trees.
If you’ve ever wondered how trees connect us to the world around us, this is the episode for you! Listen now to be inspired by the stories, science, and symbolism of trees. Don’t forget to subscribe, share this episode with your community, and leave a review to support our work. Find us on Spotify, YouTube, Apple Podcasts, and via our RSS feed: 🎙️ Spotify 📺 YouTube 📻 Apple Podcasts 💻 RSS.

Ep 200 BONUS: Oops, All Song Wars!
Dive into the chaos, creativity, and comedy that is Song Wars! In this special episode, we’ve compiled all the musical gems from past episodes, including the hilariously self-indulgent chats that led to their creation.
From heartfelt ballads about tagging games to unexpectedly funky anthems about bin juice and wet ropes, this is a Forest School Podcast experience like no other. Whether you’re here for a laugh or want a glimpse into the unfiltered madness of our musical endeavours, you’re in for a treat.
What’s Inside (with Timestamps):
[00:10] The Birth of Song Wars: Why we started writing these ridiculous songs.
[02:08] "Sideways Rain": A love-hate ode to the challenges of outdoor life in the rain.
[09:13] "Wind Speed": A manic yet relatable anthem for forest school leaders battling unpredictable weather.
[17:06] "Run, Run" – A playful tagging game song capturing the exhaustion and humor of chasing children.
[19:06] "Tag, You’re It" – A rap-inspired track from the perspective of a competitive tag player.
[23:04] "Bin Juice Blues" – A sensory overload ballad about compost cleanup nightmares.
[29:49] "Wet Rope" – A pirate-tinged dance number inspired by the frustrations of knot-tying.
[39:32] "The January Blues Song" – A darkly comedic folk track reminding us that winter isn’t over yet.
[43:22] Corvid Taxonomy Song: A listener-submitted poetic roast on bird misidentification.

Ep 200: Listener Questions and looking back over 6 years and 200 episodes.
↓Click here for Limited Edition 'Magic in the Mud' merch! ↓
www.children-of-the-forest.com/forestsschoolpodcastshop
Summary:
In this milestone 200th episode, hosts Lewis and Wem reflect on their podcasting journey, discussing the evolution of their content, memorable guest interviews, and the growth of the Forest School movement. They explore the integration of technology in outdoor education, the importance of inclusivity, and share personal anecdotes that have shaped their perspectives.
Timestamps:
00:01 – 00:09: Celebrating 200 episodes and the podcast's evolution.
08:50 – 09:30: Memorable guest insights, including Naomi Fisher and Merlin Sheldrake.
13:21 – 14:08: Transition from activity-focused content to deeper discussions.
14:12 – 14:40: Dream field trips to unique outdoor education settings.
21:12 – 22:39: Debate on the role of technology in Forest School.
27:14 – 28:56: Wishlist of future podcast guests, from philosophers to modern educators.
28:40 – 28:54: Philosophical musings on play and education.
18:44 – 19:28: Gratitude to listeners and aspirations for future episodes.
Resources Mentioned:
Naomi Fisher's Work: Dr. Naomi Fisher is a clinical psychologist specializing in trauma, autism, and alternative learning methods. Explore her publications and insights on her official website:
Naomi Fisher
Merlin Sheldrake's Research: Merlin Sheldrake is a biologist and author known for his work on fungi and mycorrhizal networks. Learn more about his research and publications here:
Merlin Sheldrake
Nonviolent Communication: Nonviolent Communication (NVC) is a communication process developed by Marshall Rosenberg. It focuses on empathetic listening and expressing needs without judgment. Find more information at the Center for Nonviolent Communication:
For the Wild
The Art of Holding Space: This concept involves supporting others without judgment, maintaining an open and empathetic presence. For a comprehensive guide, refer to Heather Plett's work:
Subscribe to the Forest School Podcast on your preferred platform to stay updated with our latest episodes.
Leave a review to share your thoughts and help others discover the show.
Follow us on social media for updates and discussions:
Forest School, outdoor education, podcasting journey, inclusivity in education, technology in outdoor learning, nonviolent communication, play-based learning.

Ep 199: How to Handle Unsafe Play in Your Sessions
When is it okay to step into a child's play? In this episode, we explore the delicate art of intervening in play cycles, discussing when to annihilate or contain play, how to navigate safety concerns, and ways to maintain emotional and physical balance. Join us for actionable insights, real-life scenarios, and strategies for reflective practice that will help you confidently manage play in your Forest School. Perfect for leaders, educators, and playworkers looking to refine their approach!
- 0:00 – Introduction: Why this episode is essential for Forest School leaders
- 1:15 – Overview of play cycles and key terms (annihilation, adulteration, containment)
- 6:00 – When and why to intervene in play cycles
- 8:30 – Balancing physical and emotional safety during risky play
- 12:00 – Practical techniques for reflective interventions
- 18:00 – Containment vs. adulteration: Avoiding adult agendas
- 19:50 – How to read nonverbal cues to guide interventions
- 23:00 – Collaborative play observation and group dynamics
- 26:25 – Strategies for managing hierarchies and power structures in play
- 30:00 – Wrap-up: Key takeaways and reflection exercises
- Play Types by Bob Hughes: Learn more here
- The Play Cycle Handbook by Perry Else and Gordon Sturrock: Purchase here
- Forest Pedagogy by Jon Cree and Marina Robb: Explore the book
- Articles on reflective playwork practices: Visit this resource
🌟 Loved this episode? Don’t forget to:
- Subscribe to our podcast on your favourite platform
- Leave us a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ review to help more listeners find us
- Join the conversation on social media! Share your thoughts, questions, and stories with us on Instagram and Facebook.
Find us everywhere:
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💻 RSS: https://shorturl.at/A0kx9
The full transcript for this episode is available here.
- “Intervening in play isn’t about control—it’s about safeguarding the child’s ability to continue playing safely and joyfully.”
- “Sometimes, the most impactful intervention is subtle containment: adding or removing a resource to guide play without breaking the flow.”
- “Reflective practice isn’t just about stopping play; it’s about understanding when to step in and when to step back.”

Ep 198: Is YOUR Outdoor Provision just résumé building for children?
Summary:
In this episode, we explore the purpose of Forest School as a space for children to engage in free play, build social connections, and experience the joy of childhood without the pressures of traditional, outcome-driven education. Discover why Forest School stands as a community resource, supports mental health, and challenges the idea of “resume-building” for children.
Episode Highlights:
- Free Play vs. Structured Learning: How unstructured play in Forest School supports mental health and holistic growth.
- Forest School as a Community Resource: The ripple effects of Forest School on families and communities, fostering environmental stewardship and shared values.
- Beyond Resume-Building: The limitations of an achievement-focused childhood and how Forest School offers a different path.
- The Mental Health Benefits of Nature-Based Learning: Why time spent in nature is essential for children’s well-being and resilience.
- Embracing “Pissing About”: The value of unstructured, joyful exploration and why it’s a radical act in today’s productivity-focused world.
Timestamps:
- [00:05] Introduction to the theme: Free play and its role in childhood
- [05:05] Why treating childhood as resume-building affects mental health
- [11:51] Forest School as a community asset and environmental stewardship
- [13:24] The importance of unstructured time in Forest School
- [18:18] Encouraging outdoor leaders to preserve free play
Resources Mentioned:
- Peter Gray’s Research – Gray’s studies on free play, childhood mental health, and inequality
- “Free to Learn” by Peter Gray – Gray’s book on childhood play and education
- Forest School Community Hub – Resources and connections for Forest School leaders
Key Quotes:
- “Forest School isn’t about preparing kids for the future; it’s about giving them the space to experience joy and curiosity right now.”
- “In a world of metrics and outcomes, Forest School stands as a rare place where children can simply be.”
Join the Conversation:
How do you incorporate free play into your sessions? Join us on social media and share your thoughts!
Find us everywhere:
🎙️ Spotify
📺 YouTube
📻 Apple Podcasts
💻 RSS Feed
Enjoyed the episode? Don’t forget to subscribe, leave a review, and share with fellow educators to help spread the message of free play and nature-based learning!

Ep 197: Is Verbal Language Bias Shaping Your Forest School?
Summary
In this episode, Lewis explores the biases surrounding verbal and nonverbal communication within the context of forest school training. He discusses the importance of recognizing and addressing these biases to create a more inclusive environment for participants. The conversation delves into various aspects of communication, including play cues, emotional expressions, and the impact of verbal hierarchies. Lewis emphasizes the need for forest school leaders to value nonverbal communication and consider its role in fostering connections among participants.
Takeaways
The forest school training emphasizes intentional decision-making.
Verbal and nonverbal communication biases can impact participant interactions.
Non-judgmental approaches are essential in forest school settings.
Communication barriers can arise from emotional overwhelm or language differences.
Play cues often involve nonverbal communication that should be recognized.
Apologies can take many forms beyond verbal expressions.
Verbal hierarchies can create barriers in communication with children.
Nonverbal communication is a key aspect of forest school leadership.
Forest school leaders are uniquely positioned to value nonverbal cues.
Reflecting on communication practices can enhance inclusivity.
Chapters
00:00 Unpacking Intentional Communication
05:41 Exploring Language Bias in Communication
09:00 The Role of Nonverbal Cues
14:37 Play Cues and Communication Dynamics
17:26 Apologies and Emotional Expressions
20:19 Verbal Hierarchies and Participation
23:42 Nonverbal Communication in Nature
26:39 Reflecting on Practice and Inclusivity
42:13 Exploring Bias in Communication
42:44 Engagement with Participants
43:11 Community and Reflective Practices
43:22 podcast clips rooster.mp3

196: Why YOUR School Needs More Stories Like Jojo & Gran Gran with Laura Henry-Allain
Summary:
In this episode of The Forest School Podcast, host Lewis Ames sits down with Laura Henry-Allain MBE, author, consultant, and creator of the beloved children’s show Jojo & Gran Gran. They explore the importance of representation in early years education, how to create inclusive learning environments, and why conversations about diversity should start early. Laura shares practical advice for parents and educators, emphasizing the power of storytelling in fostering empathy and understanding. Tune in to learn how YOU can make a difference in your classroom, Forest School, or home learning environment.
Key Takeaways:
- The role of diverse stories in shaping children's understanding of the world.
- How to introduce age-appropriate conversations about race and inclusion.
- Practical ways to make your learning environment a space where every child feels seen.
- The “mirrors, windows, and sliding doors” approach to representation in books.
- Why outdoor educators should consider diverse experiences when designing activities.
Timestamps:
- [01:26] – Laura introduces herself and her journey in early years education.
- [03:19] – The creation of Jojo & Gran Gran and its impact on diverse storytelling.
- [07:06] – Discussing the importance of diversity in books and media for children.
- [14:03] – Why it’s crucial to talk about race with young children.
- [18:02] – How parents can be anti-racist role models through everyday actions.
- [27:15] – Laura’s guide for early years educators on promoting inclusion.
- [37:47] – Reflections on Laura's grandmother’s legacy and its influence on her work.
Guest Information:
Laura Henry-Allain MBE is a celebrated author and early years consultant known for her work in children's media and literature. She is the creator of the TV series Jojo & Gran Gran, which highlights the importance of familial bonds and cultural representation. Laura has written several books that explore themes of inclusion and diversity, such as My Skin, Your Skin. Connect with Laura on her website laurahanryelaine.com.
Links to Resources Mentioned:
- Jojo & Gran Gran (TV Series)
- My Skin, Your Skin by Laura Henry-Allain MBE
- Research on early childhood development and race recognition
Call to Action:
Enjoyed this conversation? Subscribe to The Forest School Podcast and leave us a review! Share this episode with fellow educators and parents to help spread the message of inclusion in early years education. Follow the links to listen:
- 🎙️ Spotify
- 📺 YouTube
- 📻 Apple Podcasts
- 💻 RSS Feed

Ep 195: How Scripts Can Transform Your Toughest Parenting Moments With Kirk Martin
In this enlightening conversation, Lewis Ames is joined by Kirk Martin from the Calm Parenting Podcast to delve into the powerful tool of scripting in parenting—especially when dealing with strong-willed children. They explore how pre-planned scripts can offer parents practical phrases to navigate emotionally charged situations, while helping kids feel understood and secure. The episode emphasizes the importance of modeling language and behavior, maintaining consistency, and adjusting scripts as needed. Key takeaways include strategies for balancing authority and empathy, understanding emotional responses, and the role of curiosity and tone in effective communication.
If you're a parent, educator, or outdoor leader looking for actionable tips, this episode offers insight into how scripting can transform your approach in challenging moments.
For more insights, visit www.theforestschoolpodcast.com and join us on Patreon for exclusive content!
Chapters:
00:00 – Introduction to Kirk and Calm Parenting
Lewis introduces Kirk Martin, the host of Calm Parenting Podcast, and highlights his approach to working with children through nonviolent communication and practical scripts.
04:34 – Understanding Strong-Willed Children
Kirk dives into the characteristics of strong-willed kids and why traditional parenting techniques often backfire with them.
07:33 – The Importance of Scripting in Parenting
Learn how using pre-planned scripts can help parents stay calm and provide consistency in tricky situations. Kirk shares examples of go-to phrases that make kids feel heard.
10:36 – Practical Applications of Scripting
Kirk and Lewis discuss how to adapt these scripts to various parenting or teaching scenarios, including outdoor learning environments.
13:32 – Modeling Language for Kids
They explore the importance of parents and educators modeling the kind of respectful, calm communication they expect from children.
16:40 – Consistency in Parenting Approaches
Kirk explains how sticking to scripts and being consistent with boundaries helps children feel safe and secure.
22:27 – Navigating Emotional Responses
What do you do when kids' emotions are running high? Kirk talks about using scripts to acknowledge kids’ feelings while guiding them through their emotions.
25:30 – Scripts for Effective Communication
Discover specific scripts that can diffuse tense moments and help children open up in more productive ways.
28:13 – Using Humor and Relatability in Scripts
Kirk emphasizes the importance of humor in scripts to make communication feel lighter and more relatable to children.
31:15 – Creating Space for Processing Ideas
The value of giving kids space after you use a script, allowing them time to think and calm down.
34:11 – The Dynamics of Parenting and Communication
They discuss the flow between authority and empathy in parenting and teaching, and how scripts can strike the perfect balance.
37:12 – Scripting Conversations: The Art of Flow Charts
Kirk shares how you can think of scripts like flow charts, with different responses depending on how the child reacts.
39:42 – When Scripts Fail: Embracing Authenticity
Kirk discusses the importance of flexibility—sometimes scripts don’t work, and that’s okay. Authentic responses have their place too.
43:43 – Physical Movement and Emotional Processing
"Motion changes emotion." Learn how getting kids physically active can help them work through emotional responses.
47:48 – Curiosity and Active Listening in Conflict Resolution
Kirk and Lewis explore how curiosity can be a game-changer in de-escalating conflicts. Ask questions like, "What’s frustrating you the most right now?"
52:24 – The Power of Honesty and Tone in Communication
How being honest and using the right tone in your scripts can foster deeper connections and better emotional regulation in kids.
56:39 – Understanding Emotional Responses and Validation
The episode wraps up with a focus on validating emotions and helping children feel understood, even when they're struggling to express themselves.
For more helpful advice and resources, be sure to visit www.theforestschoolpodcast.com, and support the show on Patreon for exclusive content and perks!
Links to Resources:
- Check out Kirk Martin’s Calm Parenting Podcast for more of his advice and insights: www.calmparentingpodcast.com
- Learn more about the Forest School Podcast: www.theforestschoolpodcast.com
Don't forget to subscribe to the Forest School Podcast on your favorite platform for more tips, strategies, and insights into parenting, outdoor education, and alternative learning approaches!

Ep 194: How YOU Can Run Intergenerational Projects That Work with Kendra McWilliam
Episode Summary:
In this episode, we chat with Kendra McWilliam about making Forest School accessible to people of all ages, abilities, and backgrounds. Kendra shares her insights on adapting sessions for diverse needs, running intergenerational projects, and securing funding for community-driven outdoor projects. You’ll learn actionable strategies to transform YOUR sessions into more inclusive and engaging spaces.
Main Points & Timestamps:
- [02:45]: Understanding the Barriers to Inclusivity – Kendra discusses common barriers that prevent people from accessing Forest School and how to identify and address them.
- [07:10]: Creating Intergenerational Projects – The benefits of bringing together different age groups to build community and share skills.
- [15:32]: Adapting Sessions to Meet People Where They Are – Examples of flexible session formats, from home-based sessions to urban settings.
- [22:18]: Strategies for Securing Grant Funding – How Kendra’s team won a £58,000 grant and advice for others looking to fund their projects.
- [30:47]: Balancing Sustainability and Accessibility – Blending paid services with grant-funded programs to support long-term project goals.
Guest Introduction:
Kendra McWilliam is an experienced Forest School practitioner who focuses on making nature-based education accessible to everyone, regardless of age or ability. She’s been running inclusive community projects for over a decade and is passionate about building spaces where everyone feels welcome and engaged.
Resources Mentioned:
Call to Action:
If YOU found this episode helpful, make sure to subscribe and leave us a review! Follow us on Spotify or Apple Podcasts to catch new episodes every week, and check out the full show notes on our website.

Ep 193: 10 Hacks to learn bushcraft faster than I did!
Summary
In this episode of the Forest School Podcast, Lewis discusses various aspects of outdoor education, focusing on cooking, bushcraft skills, and the importance of continuous learning. He shares insights from his books, 'Forest School Cooking' and 'The Myths of Outdoor Play and Learning', and offers practical tips for engaging children in outdoor play, especially during winter. The conversation emphasizes the value of peer learning, practical skills, and the importance of reflection in personal growth.
Chapters
00:00 Introduction and Overview of Bushcraft Skills
08:10 Engaging Kids in Outdoor Play During Winter
08:37 Reflecting on Learning from Experience
15:14 Creating a Culture of Continuous Learning
17:11 Fire Lighting Techniques and Best Practices
23:29 Mastering Knots and Practical Applications
26:53 Identifying Flora and Fauna
30:13 Knife Skills and Practical Projects
31:34 The Importance of Practical Projects
35:37 Building Skills Through Repetition
40:58 The Value of Peer Learning
44:46 Reflecting on Progress and Skills
45:43 podcast clips - fart end.mp3
45:52 Patreon 5.mp3

Ep 192: Unconventional Essentials for Mud Kitchens
Have you ever wondered what small changes could make a huge impact in your mud kitchen setup? In this episode, Lewis and Wem dive into their quirky, practical, and unconventional tips for transforming your mud kitchen into a space of creativity, independence, and fun!
Timestamps:
- [00:02] – Jangly energy and funny rain stories.
- [03:00] – Talking about animals in messy homes: humor in parenting.
- [05:31] – First mud kitchen tip: Eyelet-punched tea towels.
- [08:30] – The importance of sensory play in the mud kitchen.
- [09:45] – What counts as a mud kitchen? The variety of setups.
- [13:00] – Creating multiple eating spots for kids in the mud kitchen.
- [19:00] – Recipe posters: Are they helpful or harmful to play?
- [27:40] – Cleaning the mud kitchen: Brushes, hooks, and “wok brushes.”
- [32:00] – How hooks everywhere can revolutionize tidying up.
- [39:00] – Introducing currency in mud kitchens: Wood cookie money.
- [44:00] – Foraged items in the mud kitchen: Bringing nature into play.
Referenced Works:
- The Tiger Who Came to Tea by Judith Kerr

Ep 191: What Neurodivergent Kids Gain from Nature with Dr Sam Friedman
Do traditional school structures harm neurodivergent students?
Can nature-based learning be the solution?
In this episode, we dive deep into how Forest Schools can create more inclusive environments for neurodivergent learners. Our guest shares groundbreaking research on the benefits of nature for autistic students, challenges the romanticization of outdoor spaces, and discusses how autonomy, trust, and competence play key roles in educational success. How can you ensure you're not unintentionally causing harm? Are your Forest School practices as inclusive as they could be? Tune in to discover practical strategies for creating a truly inclusive, nature-based educational setting.
Chapter Titles & Timing:
Intro and Guest Background (00:00 - 05:30)
Visit theforestschoolpodcast.com for more insights.
Autism, Nature, and Forest Schools (05:31 - 15:45)
What’s the intersection of nature and neurodivergence?
The Challenges of Outdoor Learning (15:46 - 25:00)
How do we avoid romanticizing nature and ignoring reality?
Autonomy and Trust in Outdoor Education (25:01 - 35:20)
Can children truly experience autonomy outdoors?
Ensuring Inclusivity in Forest Schools (35:21 - 45:10)
Why inclusivity goes beyond just being outdoors.
The Future of Forest Schools and Research (45:11 - 55:40)
Referenced Works:
Practitioner perspectives on nature-based learning for autistic children
Samantha Friedman
ORCID Icon, Scott A. Morrison
ORCID Icon & Allison Shibata
Published online: 19 Sep 2024
(https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/00958964.2024.2401785)
Michael James, “Forest School Handbook” (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Forest-School-Autism-Practical-Guide/dp/1785922912)
Sinead O’Brien, Autism and Nature Research (Link to relevant studies)

Ep 190: The Art of Saying No at Forest School
Are we doing our children a disservice by always saying "yes"? In this thought-provoking episode of The Forest School Podcast, hosts Lewis and Wem dive deep into the complexities of creating a balanced learning environment in outdoor education.
They explore the concept of a "yes environment" and its potential pitfalls, drawing inspiration from Suzanne Axelson's work. But what does this mean for your forest school practice? How can you strike the right balance between freedom and structure?
The hosts discuss the importance of modeling appropriate responses to frustration and disappointment. Are you equipping your learners with the tools to handle life's inevitable "no's"?
Lewis and Wem also touch on the fascinating differences in how boys and girls are taught to express disagreement. How might this impact your approach to teaching emotional regulation in the outdoors?
This episode offers valuable insights for both new and experienced forest school practitioners. How will you apply these ideas to create a more nuanced and effective learning environment?
Remember to visit theforestschoolpodcast.com for more resources and to join the conversation!
Chapter Titles & Timing:
0:00 - Introduction: The 'Yes' Environment Dilemma 5:03 - Modeling 'No': A Delicate Balance 12:28 - The Squirrel Interruption: Nature's Reminder 18:41 - Emotional Responses in Different Settings 27:26 - Designing Spaces for Authenticity 34:25 - When Adults Lose Control: Modeling Recovery 38:20 - Conclusion: Risk-Assessing Your 'Yeses'
For more in-depth discussions on forest school practices, head over to theforestschoolpodcast.com. Don't forget to subscribe and leave a review if you found this episode valuable!
Looking to dive deeper into these concepts? Visit theforestschoolpodcast.com for exclusive content and resources to enhance your forest school practice.

Ep 189: A Conversation with Emma Brockes

Ep 188: An Owl Based Info-Dump
Support the podcast, get in touch and find more episodes at www.theforestschoolpodcast.com
Summary
In this episode of The Forest School Podcast, Lewis Ames explores the fascinating world of owls. He shares interesting facts about owl sizes, adaptability, legs, silent flight, vision, hearing, vocalizations, intelligence, family dynamics, hunting behaviors, diets, and conservation challenges. Owls play a crucial role in ecosystems by controlling rodent populations. Conservation efforts, education, and ambassador owls are helping to protect and raise awareness about these incredible birds.
Chapters
00:00 Introduction and Gratitude
01:41 The Astonishing Diversity of Owls
03:03 The Secrets of Owl Legs and Silent Flight
04:56 The Marvels of Owl Vision and Hearing
06:22 The Fascinating World of Owl Vocalizations
09:08 The Intelligence and Family Dynamics of Owls
11:30 The Intriguing Hunting Behaviors of Owls
15:15 The Challenges Facing Owls in the Modern World
18:10 The Importance of Owl Conservation and Education

Ep 187: Unleashing Nature's Gym: Movement Reimagined with Andrew and Gill from Wildstrong
What if the great outdoors was your ultimate fitness playground?
Join hosts Lewis Ames and Wem Southerden as they explore the world of outdoor movement and fitness with Andrew and Gill from Wild Strong. Discover how reconnecting with nature can transform our approach to exercise, build community, and challenge traditional fitness norms. This episode is packed with insights for educators, parents, and anyone looking to bring more playful, natural movement into their lives.
Chapter Titles & Timing:
00:00 - Introduction to Wild Strong 05:34 - Breaking the Gym Mold: Nature as Your Playground 10:41 - The Power of Play in Adult Fitness 15:23 - Challenging 'Correct' Movement Myths 20:50 - Building Community Through Outdoor Exercise 25:35 - Risk Assessment in Natural Settings 30:12 - Affordances: Seeing Movement Opportunities in Nature 35:48 - Family Dynamics in Outdoor Fitness 40:20 - Practical Tips for Educators and Parents 45:15 - Wrapping Up and Resources
Throughout the episode, listeners are encouraged to visit theforestschoolpodcast.com for more resources on outdoor education and natural movement. Whether you're an educator looking to incorporate more outdoor activities or a parent seeking ways to get your family moving in nature, this episode offers valuable insights and practical ideas.
Don't forget to check out theforestschoolpodcast.com for show notes, links to resources mentioned, and to leave your feedback on this episode. Your input helps shape future content!
For more information on Wild Strong and their approach to outdoor fitness, visit their website at wildstrong.co. Remember to visit theforestschoolpodcast.com to join the conversation and share your own experiences with natural movement and outdoor learning.

Ep 186: Can false memories actually enhance our connection to nature?
Join hosts Lewis Ames and Wem Southerden as they explore the fascinating world of "muddy memories" in outdoor education. Discover how these not-quite-accurate recollections might play a crucial role in fostering deep connections with nature. Learn practical strategies for educators and parents to navigate and nurture these magical moments.
For more thought-provoking discussions on outdoor education, visit theforestschoolpodcast.com.
Chapter Titles & Timing:
00:00 - Introduction: The Power of Muddy Memories 05:47 - Childhood Imagination and Nature Connection 13:29 - Lessons from Dementia Care for Educators 19:00 - The Ethics of "Nature Gaslighting" 25:28 - Why Forests Fuel Our Imagination 29:42 - Navigating Conflicts in Outdoor Settings 34:45 - The Magic of "What If" in Nature Education
Dive deeper into forest school philosophy and practice at theforestschoolpodcast.com.
41:00 - Practical Tips for Educators and Parents 47:30 - Conclusion: Embracing the Magic of Muddy Memories
For more resources and to join the conversation, head to www.theforestschoolpodcast.com.
Remember to like, subscribe, and share this episode with fellow outdoor enthusiasts!

Ep 185: Creating Non-Judgmental Spaces in Forest School
How can we foster a truly non-judgmental environment in Forest School without compromising on safety and boundaries?
Description: Join Lewis and Wem as they dive deep into the complexities of creating and maintaining non-judgmental spaces in Forest School settings. From handling personal biases to addressing challenging behaviors, this episode explores the delicate balance between acceptance and setting necessary boundaries. Discover practical strategies for fostering a community where everyone feels safe to express themselves authentically.
Visit theforestschoolpodcast.com for more insights on Forest School practices!
Chapter Titles & Timing:
0:00 - Introduction: The Challenge of Non-Judgment 5:18 - Cultural Kombucha: Building a Non-Judgmental Community 11:14 - Balancing Praise and Judgment 20:49 - The Impact of Judgment in Safe Spaces 27:20 - Modeling Self-Compassion and Mistake Ownership 34:30 - Non-Judgment vs. Permissiveness: Finding the Balance
For more episodes on creating inclusive Forest School environments, head to theforestschoolpodcast.com.
39:02 - Closing Thoughts and Listener Engagement
Don't forget to check out theforestschoolpodcast.com for additional resources and to join our community of Forest School enthusiasts!

Ep 184: How do you make adults be friends?

Ep 183: The positive and pitfalls of being lifelong learners as leaders with Nicki Farell from Raising Wildlings PART 1
Support the podcast and get bonus content today at www.patreon.com/theforestschoolpodcast
Find part 2 at https://www.wildlingsforestschool.com/raisingwildlingsAnd give them a follow on their socials:- https://www.facebook.com/share/317yVGUXFPSJPwTb/- https://www.instagram.com/wildlings_forestschool?igsh=MTlxeDN6ZnVzdXFudw==
In this episode, The Forest School Podcast collaborates with Nicky Farrell from Wildlings in Australia. They discuss the importance of lifelong learning in the context of forest school education. They explore how being passionate about learning and nature can drive educators to continuously seek new knowledge and experiences. They also discuss the challenges of being a lifelong learner, such as the pressure to conform to traditional educational systems. The conversation highlights the importance of modeling learning for children and creating a supportive community of learners. Chapters
00:00 Introduction and Collaboration with Raising Wildlings Podcast
02:56 Passion for Learning and Nature in Forest School
06:12 Challenges of Being a Lifelong Learner
09:13 Modeling Learning for Children in Forest School
12:00 Building a Supportive Community of Learners in Forest School
25:37 Contemplating the Moral Implications of Overdramatizing Slugs
29:35 The Shift from Rote Memory to Practical Application of Knowledge
37:37 Conclusion and Invitation to Listen to the Second Half on Raising Wildlings Podcast

Ep 182: Is Encouragement Ableist?
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Find out about our sessions and Forest School Leader Training in Devon, UK at www.children-of-the-forest.com
Summary
In this conversation, Wem and Lewis discuss the concept of encouragement and its potential negative effects. They explore the idea that sometimes encouragement can be seen as ableism, as it may push individuals beyond their limits and lead to burnout or shutdown. They discuss the importance of listening to people's boundaries and needs, especially children, and not pressuring them to do more than they are capable of. They also touch on the role of caregiver attunement in providing appropriate support and opportunities for growth. The conversation highlights the need for nuance in offering encouragement and the importance of considering power dynamics and hierarchy in adult-child relationships.
Chapters
00:00 Introduction and Setting the Tone
00:58 Exploring the Topic of Ableism and Encouragement
06:08 Reflecting on Capacity and Presuming Competence
11:05 The Impact of Encouragement in School and Forest School Settings
19:01 Caregiver Attunement and Offering Opportunities
20:33 The Holistic Nature of Forest School and Developing Relationships
30:51 Different Approaches to Encouragement and Reflecting on Hierarchy
35:16 The Role of Nonchalance and Reflecting on Encouragement
38:32 Closing Remarks and Call to Action

Ep 181: I wasn't Finished With That Yet
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Find out about our sessions and Forest School Leader Training in Devon, UK at www.children-of-the-forest.com
Summary
In this conversation, Lewis and Wem discuss the dynamics of play and ownership in a Forest School setting. They explore topics such as sharing, turn-taking, and the challenges of navigating ownership without physically touching or being in a play space. They also discuss the role of Forest School leaders in mediating conflicts and facilitating play. The conversation raises questions about the introduction of metacognition and communication about play, and the potential impact on the flow and authenticity of play experiences.

Ep 179: Queer Planet with Lizzie Wild
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—
Guest Info:
https://www.muddypuddleclub.co.uk/
instagram: @muddypuddlelizzie
—
In this episode, the hosts discuss the documentary 'Queer Planet' and explore the concept of queer ecology. They talk about the tone of the documentary, the representation of queerness in nature, and the erasure of queer history in outdoor education. They also discuss the role of chosen families in nature and the importance of using inclusive language in nature connection. The hosts highlight examples of queer behavior in animals, such as penguins and flamingos, and discuss the impact of gender stereotypes in nature documentaries. In this conversation, the hosts discuss the concept of queer ecology and its implications for understanding nature and human identity. They explore the idea that nature is not inherently heterosexual or binary, but rather diverse and adaptable. The hosts highlight examples of queer behavior in the animal kingdom, such as same-sex mating and gender fluidity. They also discuss the importance of using inclusive language and challenging societal norms when talking about nature. The conversation emphasizes the need to normalize queer experiences and perspectives in the study and appreciation of the natural world.
Chapters
00:00 Introduction and Patreon Support
02:37 Introducing Lizzie Wilde and Queer Planet Documentary
05:02 The Playful Tone of the Documentary
06:36 Critique of the Documentary's Focus on Sexuality
08:02 Lizzie Wilde's Work in Forest School and Queer Ecology
09:28 Understanding Queer Ecology and its History
13:05 The Impact of Queer Ecology on Society
15:22 Examples of Queer Behavior in Animals
17:43 Chosen Families in Nature and Forest School
23:22 The Influence of Victorian Culture on Nature Perception
25:40 Historical Erasure of Queer Observations in Nature
27:08 Gender Stereotypes and Pronouns in Nature Connection
29:24 Using Real-Life Examples to Challenge Gender Norms
32:23 The Importance of Inclusive Language in Nature Education
34:15 Masculine and Feminine Approaches to the Outdoors
36:05 Using Pronouns to Connect with Nature
41:40 Mother Trees and Queer Communities
44:03 Challenging Heteronormativity in Nature
45:24 Affectionate Male Lions and Polyamorous Lions
51:35 Seahorse Dads and Queer Romance
53:52 Queer Behavior in the Animal Kingdom
58:19 Yew Trees and Gender Adaptability
01:05:15 Nature's Adaptability and Human Response to Climate Change

Ep 178: International Forest School Reasearch Symposium 2024
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SummaryThe Forest School Podcast attended the International Forest School Research Symposium at the University of Liverpool. They interviewed researchers and practitioners about their experiences and findings. Topics discussed included the benefits of Forest School for parents' mental health, the use of qualitative research methods, and the importance of research in informing Forest School practice. The symposium provided a platform for sharing research and networking among academics and practitioners in the Forest School community. The conversation in this part of the podcast revolves around the Forest School Symposium in Liverpool. The participants discuss their excitement about the research being presented and the need for evidence to support the benefits of Forest School. They also talk about the role of research in advocating for Forest School and the importance of speaking the language of education. The conversation touches on themes such as neurodivergent young people, access to nature, long-term effects of Forest School, and the need for interdisciplinary collaboration. The Forest School Podcast team reflects on their experience at the Forest School Research Symposium. They discuss the various presentations and topics covered, including the impact of Forest School on parents' mental health, the role of forest school leaders in creating micro communities, the importance of the forest as an entity, and the challenges and successes of implementing forest school in different countries. They also highlight the contributions of the FSA team and volunteers in organizing the symposium.
Chapters
00:00 Introduction and Symposium Overview
10:48 Opening Address by Dr Sarah Knight
29:31 Interviews with Researchers and Practitioners
44:04 Celebrating and Supporting Research on Forest School
45:04 Advocating for Forest School through Research
51:49 The Impact of Forest School on Neurodivergent Young People
56:24 Improving Access to Nature through Forest School
01:13:10 The Role of Forest School in Occupational Therapy
01:19:24 Supporting Parents' Mental Health through Forest School
01:25:24 Enhancing Mental Bandwidth and Problem-Solving Skills in Forest School
01:28:19 Aligning with Institutional Values in Forest School
01:29:13 Observing Actions and Activities in Forest School
01:30:55 The Impact of Forest School on Parents' Mental Health
01:35:36 The Role of Forest School Leaders in Creating Micro Communities
01:38:01 The Forest as an Entity: Its Importance in Forest School
01:47:14 Challenges and Successes of Implementing Forest School in Different Countries
01:49:59 The Contributions of the FSA Team and Volunteers in Organizing the Symposium

Ep 177: Interview with Dr Mark Leather
https://www.marjon.ac.uk/about-marjon/staff-list-and-profiles/leather-dr-mark.html
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Summary
In this conversation, Lewis, Wem, and Mark Leather discuss the use of swearing in forest school and academia, the feral nature of forest school research, and the upcoming forest school research symposium. They also explore the importance of asking participants for their perspectives and the need for adaptability in evidencing learning. The conversation highlights the diverse approaches within forest school and the potential benefits of different niches. Overall, the conversation emphasizes the importance of critical thinking, research, and open-mindedness in forest school and academia. The conversation explores the challenges of articulating and assessing forest school practices in a traditional written format. It discusses the need for creativity and playfulness in education and the importance of allowing for subjectivity and individuality in forest school settings. The conversation also touches on the role of research in forest school practice and the potential for a national body to establish criteria and guidelines. The symposium is seen as an opportunity to connect forest school leaders and researchers and foster collaboration and innovation.
Chapters
00:00 Swearing in Forest School and Academia
02:12 The Feral Branch of Forest School Research
03:13 The Spectrum of Approaches in Forest School
09:40 The Forest School Research Symposium
28:04 Articulating Forest School Practices
29:32 Creativity and Playfulness in Education
30:01 The Challenge of Evidence in Forest School
31:39 Assessment in Forest School
34:05 Balancing Control and Playfulness
38:00 The Unique Nature of Forest School Education
49:22 Research and Collaboration in Forest School
51:03 The Symposium as a Platform for Collaboration

Ep 176: Unconventional Essentials #1: Dressing Up Clothes
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Summary
In this episode of The Forest School Podcast, Lewis and Wem discuss the importance of dressing up in forest school settings. They explore the concept of modeling and how a single item can transform a person into a different character. They emphasize the value of versatile and quick-to-adapt costumes, such as rags or fabric, that allow for open-ended play. They also discuss the significance of multiple costumes in a theme, which encourages collaborative play. The hosts highlight the need for dressing up resources that are appropriate for outdoor use and can withstand wear and tear. They also touch on the idea of privacy and how having a designated dressing up area can provide a safe space for children to explore different roles before joining the wider play space. In this conversation, the hosts discuss the importance of dressing up in forest school settings. They explore various aspects of dressing up, including the role it plays in imaginative play, creating characters, and building confidence. They also discuss the practical considerations of storing and organizing costumes, as well as the importance of sensory-friendly materials. The hosts touch on the topics of gender roles and cultural dress in dressing up, emphasizing the need for inclusivity and reflection in the selection of costumes. They also explore the potential for dressing up to facilitate nature connection and animal play.
Takeaways
Dressing up in forest school settings allows children to explore different roles and engage in imaginative play.
A single item, such as a hat or fabric, can transform a person into a different character.
Versatile and quick-to-adapt costumes, like rags or fabric, are valuable resources for open-ended play.
Having multiple costumes in a theme encourages collaborative play and allows for a variety of roles.
Dressing up resources should be appropriate for outdoor use and able to withstand wear and tear.
Providing a designated dressing up area can offer privacy and a safe space for children to try out different roles before joining the wider play space. Dressing up is an important aspect of imaginative play in forest school settings, allowing children to create characters and explore different roles.
Practical considerations for dressing up include storage and organization of costumes, as well as the use of sensory-friendly materials.
In selecting costumes, it is important to consider inclusivity, gender roles, and cultural dress to create a welcoming and diverse dressing up experience.
Dressing up can also facilitate nature connection and animal play, allowing children to embody and explore different living creatures.
Chapters
00:00 Introduction and Nostalgic Chat
02:11 Introducing the Forest School Podcast
03:05 Promoting the Podcast and Support Options
04:02 Discussion on Dressing Up and Fancy Dress
12:03 The Origins of the Dressing Up Box in the Woods
14:26 Unconventional Essentials: Dressing Up
15:49 Modeling Costumes with a Single Item
26:14 Encouraging Collaborative Play with Multiple Costumes
30:02 Choosing Dressing Up Resources for Outdoor Use
31:27 The Value of Privacy in a Designated Dressing Up Area
31:54 Sponsor Message: Children of the Forest
33:20 The Importance of Dressing Up in Forest School
34:13 Practical Considerations for Dressing Up
38:20 Inclusivity and Reflection in Costume Selection
45:37 Dressing Up for Nature Connection and Animal Play

Ep 175: Why do teenagers disconnect from nature and what can we do to help?
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Summary
The conversation explores the decline in nature connection among teenagers and the challenges of engaging adolescents with nature. It delves into the impact of autonomy, rebellion, and social acceptance on nature connection, as well as the need for outdoor spaces for teenagers to congregate without judgment. The discussion also highlights the importance of intrinsic motivation and play in fostering nature connection in adolescents. The conversation explores the impact of social expectations and judgment on teenagers' nature connection, the role of technology in forging new connections with nature, and the changing definition of nature connection as individuals transition from childhood to adolescence. It also delves into the need to remove moral judgments from assessing nature connection and the importance of research in understanding and providing opportunities for nature connection.
Takeaways
Teenagers experience a decline in nature connection, with a significant dip between the ages of 13 and 18, followed by a gradual climb back up to early childhood levels by the age of 30.
The need for autonomy, rebellion, and social acceptance influences teenagers' engagement with nature, and providing outdoor spaces for teenagers to congregate without judgment is crucial for fostering nature connection.
Intrinsic motivation and play play a significant role in nurturing nature connection in adolescents, and the focus should be on facilitating spaces for teenagers to engage with nature on their own terms. Social expectations and judgment can impact teenagers' nature connection, leading to a shift in the definition and experience of nature connection during adolescence.
Technology can be used to forge new connections with nature, and its role in facilitating global nature connection should be recognized and studied.
Removing moral judgments from the assessment of nature connection is essential, and research is needed to understand and provide opportunities for nature connection, especially for teenagers.
The changing definition of nature connection as individuals transition from childhood to adolescence highlights the need for a broader understanding and approach to nature connection at different life stages.
Chapters
00:00 Introduction and Sunday Sessions with Lewis and Wem
03:17 The Decline in Nature Connection Among Teenagers
07:31 Challenges of Engaging Adolescents with Nature
15:14 The Impact of Autonomy and Social Acceptance on Nature Engagement
24:12 The Impact of Social Expectations on Teenagers' Nature Connection
37:20 Technology and Nature Connection: Forging New Connections
45:35 The Changing Definition of Nature Connection in Adolescence

Ep 174: The Biophilia Effect - Book Review
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Summary
The Forest School Podcast discusses the concept of biophilia and the healing bond between humans and nature. They explore the non-judgmental nature of the natural world and how it allows individuals to be themselves without conforming to societal expectations. The hosts also discuss the physiological effects of spending time in nature and the importance of creating inclusive and accepting spaces in outdoor education. In this conversation, the hosts discuss various themes related to the perception of the outdoors and the benefits of being in nature. They explore the idea of biases and misconceptions about what outdoor spaces should be like, emphasizing the importance of creating inclusive and comfortable environments. They also touch on the topic of humans' innate attraction to nature and the calming effects it has on our minds. The hosts delve into the concept of fascination and how it differs from attention, as well as the evolutionary perspective on human behavior and attention. They discuss the complex relationship between the body, mind, and nature, highlighting the interconnectedness of all living things. The conversation concludes with a lighthearted discussion about unconventional topics such as intimate experiences in nature and the sensory associations with colors and smells.
Keywords
biophilia, healing bond, non-judgmental, nature, inclusive, accepting, outdoor education, outdoors, perception, biases, inclusive spaces, comfort, nature, attraction, calming effects, fascination, attention, evolutionary perspective, body-mind connection, interconnectedness, intimate experiences, sensory associations
Chapters
00:00 Introduction and Content Warning
00:26 Forgive Me Forest School
02:14 The Mystery of Owls
03:03 How Many Owls Would It Take?
04:22 Supporting Owl Chat on Patreon
05:09 Biophilia: A Scientific and Spiritual Exploration
06:06 The Biophilia Effect and Catathym Imaginative Psychotherapy
08:00 The Language of Fragrances
10:01 Visualization and Nature Therapy
13:28 The Evolutionary Preference for Savanna Landscapes
28:18 Challenging Biases in Outdoor Spaces
30:39 The Benefits of Being in Nature
31:09 Attention and Fascination
32:09 Exploring the Eco-Psychosomatic System
36:08 Nature and Death
44:45 Intimate Encounters in Nature
48:16 The Association Between Smells and Colors
56:20 Gratitude to Patreon Supporters

Ep 173: Renaturing School Playgrounds: The Challenges and Opportunities Engaging Children with Nature in Urban Areas with Nina Lovelace
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Sponsors:
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Guest Info:
https://www.hackneyoutdoors.co.uk/services
Summary
In this episode of The Forest School Podcast, Lewis Ames and Wem Sutherland discuss urban forest school with guest Nina Lovelace. They explore the challenges and opportunities of bringing nature and forest school principles to urban environments. Nina shares her experience of re-naturing school playgrounds and engaging children and families in nature connection. They also discuss the importance of relationships with nature-connected adults and the value of a holistic approach to education. In this conversation, Nina talks about her experience with urban forest school and the challenges and opportunities it presents. She discusses the importance of engaging children with the natural environment and how she encourages them to see the playground differently. Nina also addresses the issue of limited resources in urban areas and the need to be creative in providing nature-based experiences. She emphasizes the importance of building relationships with parents and staff to navigate the challenges of integrating forest school principles into a school setting. Nina also highlights the significance of considering microclimates and climate resilience in urban forest school projects.
Keywords
urban forest school, nature connection, re-naturing, school playgrounds, holistic education, urban forest school, engaging children, natural environment, playground, limited resources, creativity, relationships, parents, staff, microclimates, climate resilience
Chapters
00:00 Introduction and Background
01:22 Defining Urban Forest School
05:35 Renaturing Urban Spaces: The William Patten School Project
08:37 Corporate Partnerships and Fundraising
12:08 Applying Skills from a Corporate Background
13:11 The Value of Urban Forest School in Education
18:05 Challenges and Insights of Designing Small Spaces
23:06 The Social Aspects of Forest School
31:35 Creating Nature-Rich Spaces in Urban Environments
36:43 Engaging Parents and Teachers in Urban Forest School Initiatives
40:41 Climate Resilience in Urban Forest School
45:31 The Value of Herbs and Native Plants in Urban Forest School
49:29 Storytelling and Learning in Urban Forest School

Ep 172: Where do Retired Forest School Leaders Go? With Sara Knight and Jon Cree
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Sponsors:
Carbonfarmers.world for Tawi Stoves!
—
Summary
In this episode of The Forest School Podcast, Lewis, Wem, Sarah, and John discuss their experiences and career paths in the field of Forest School. They touch on topics such as retirement, the interdisciplinary nature of Forest School, the future of Forest School for adults, and the benefits of mixed-age play. The conversation highlights the importance of staying connected to nature and the community, as well as the need for continued engagement and learning in the field. The conversation explores the benefits and challenges of mixed-age leadership in forest school settings. It highlights the importance of community and the need for better communication and support among individuals. The guests discuss their personal experiences with mixed-age leadership and the value of diverse perspectives and skills. They also touch on the difficulties faced by forest school practitioners, such as the lack of funding and support from local authorities. The conversation concludes with a reflection on the evolving nature of forest school and the potential for its expansion into adult and community settings.
Chapters
00:00 Introduction
12:14 The Interdisciplinary Nature of Forest School
35:13 Exploring the Benefits and Challenges of Mixed-Age Leadership
44:57 Expanding Forest School into Adult and Community Settings
Keywords
Forest School, education, nature connection, career paths, retirement, interdisciplinary, adults, mixed-age play, mixed-age leadership, benefits, challenges, community, communication, support, forest school practitioners, funding, local authorities, adult forest school, holistic approach

Ep 171: Matrescence and Forest School with Lucy Jones
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Guest
Info: https://lucyfjones.com/
—
Sponsors:
Carbonfarmers.world for Tawi Stoves!
Lucy Jones, author of the book Matressence, joins the Forest School Podcast to discuss the journey of becoming a mother and the lack of cultural representation and support for motherhood. Lucy shares her personal experience of feeling isolated and overwhelmed as a new mother and how the word 'matressence' provided a sense of validation. She explores the historical and cultural reasons behind the lack of focus on motherhood and childbirth in society. Lucy also discusses the importance of rituals and celebrations to honor and acknowledge the transformative experience of becoming a mother. The conversation explores the shame and stigma surrounding the challenges of becoming a parent, as well as the power of gathering and sharing stories. The guest emphasizes the importance of including dads and partners in the conversation and highlights the need for everyone to be part of the solution. They discuss the concept of matrescence and its ongoing impact throughout different stages of parenting. The guest also explains the inclusion of ecological vignettes in the book, which serve as metaphors and provide solace in the face of change and challenges.
Chapters
00:00 Introduction and Background
06:58 Exploring the Reasons Behind the Denial of the Maternal Experience
34:22 Breaking the Taboos: Addressing the Shame and Stigma of Parenthood
52:51 Nature as a Source of Grounding and Normalizing the Experience of Motherhood
59:44 Towards New Ways of Thinking and Storytelling: Prioritizing Care and the Natural World
Keywords
motherhood, childbirth, matressence, cultural representation, support, isolation, rituals, celebrations, parenting, shame, stigma, challenges, gathering, sharing stories, dads, partners, matrescence, stages of parenting, ecological vignettes, metaphors, solace

Ep 170: Measuring a Springboard's Success
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Sponsors: www.Carbonfarmers.world for Tawi Stoves! Summary
In this episode of The Forest School Podcast, Lewis and Wem discuss the concept of springboards in forest school sessions. They explore the idea of springboards as intentional offerings or ideas that springboard a group into action. They discuss the importance of evaluating the effectiveness of springboards and how they can vary in terms of engagement and success. They also highlight the significance of creating a safe learning community where everyone's ideas and springboards are valued and respected. The conversation emphasizes the importance of modeling pro-social behavior and being open to trying new things. The conversation explores the concept of springboards in Forest School sessions and discusses various aspects related to their effectiveness and implementation. The hosts discuss the importance of flexibility and adaptability in springboards, as well as the impact of personal biases on defining successful springboards. They also touch on the role of engagement and the measurement of success in springboards. The conversation delves into the factors that influence the choice and design of springboards, such as the age of the learners, the ease of input, and the individual flavor or style of the practitioner. The hosts also discuss the balance between over-planning and being responsive to the group's needs, as well as the importance of being able to modify or end a springboard if it's not working. They highlight the uniqueness of each practitioner's approach and the impact it has on the overall forest school experience. Takeaways
- Springboards are intentional offerings or ideas that springboard a group into action in forest school sessions.
- The effectiveness of springboards can vary in terms of engagement and success, and it's important to evaluate their impact.
- Creating a safe learning community where everyone's ideas and springboards are valued and respected is crucial.
- Modeling pro-social behavior and being open to trying new things can foster a positive learning environment.
- Springboards can be adapted and personalized by individuals within the group, allowing for individual interests and comfort levels. Springboards in Forest School sessions should be flexible and adaptable to meet the needs and interests of the learners.
- Engagement is a key factor in the success of a springboard, and it is important to consider the individual preferences and learning styles of the group.
- The age of the learners and the specific site can influence the choice and design of springboards.
- Practitioners should find a balance between over-planning and being responsive to the group's needs, and should be able to modify or end a springboard if necessary.
- Each practitioner brings their own unique flavor or style to their springboards, which contributes to the overall forest school experience.
Chapters
00:00 Exploring the Concept of Springboards
16:25 Creating a Safe Learning Community
39:01 Ease of Input and Springboard Design
49:25 Finding the Balance: Over-Planning vs. Responsiveness
59:45 Unique Springboards for Unique Experiences