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The Political Nomad with Josh Gillespie

The Political Nomad with Josh Gillespie

By Josh Gillespie
Feeling politically disconnected? Do you look at the major political parties & think "there has to be something better!" Do stances on certain political issues have you at odds with the party with which you identify? You're not alone. Josh Gillespie, host of The Political Nomad has felt the same way. He's been a "lifer" in politics and government. He's seen each political party run to the extreme instead of having calm and rational discussions about issues of the day. That's what this podcast is about.
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The Political Nomad with Josh Gillespie Episode 17 feat. Stuart Stevens
Have you ever read a book or watched a movie where you’re rooting for the protagonist and all of the sudden, the protagonist realizes that they have been part of a larger, seemingly more dishonest cause? That the work they’ve done has only pushed their cause into a more foul angle?  This week’s guest is that Protagonist. Stuart Stevens is a legend in political operative circles. For twenty-five years, he was the lead strategist and media consultant for some of the nation’s toughest political campaigns. He’s helped elect governors and senators in half of the 50 states alone. He’s worked for or advised five presidential campaigns with four winning the GOP nomination and two winning the White House. He has even won campaigns in other countries! Stuart is also an established author with seven books to his name and his newest is coming out in August and it’s called  "It Was All A Lie: How The Republican Party Became Donald Trump,". Politics aside, I want to mention just a couple of non-political items to Stuart’s credit. Stuart has worked on television shows including Northern Exposure, Commander in Chief, and K Street. He also consulted on the 2011 film The Ides of March, which was chosen by the National Board of Review as one of the top ten films of 2011 and he was a Fellow of the American Film Institute. Additionally, here are a few links as they relate to this week's show: The Toughest Job: William Winter's Mississippi (documentary on Youtube) My Confederate Past Former Romney strategist Stuart Stevens joins Lincoln Project 2020 Election: If Republicans care about America, they should vote for Joe Biden Pre-Order "It Was All A Lie: How The Republican Party Became Donald Trump,". The Official website of Stuart Stevens Enjoy this week's show!
1:26:47
June 29, 2020
The Political Nomad with Josh Gillespie Episode 16 feat. Sarah Quinlan
Sarah Quinlan is conservative, pro-life and a feminist. How does that all work? This week on The Political Nomad Sarah turns stereotypical views on their heads. Sarah Quinlan has been a lifelong proponent of limited government and viewed the Republican Party as the best vehicle for promoting these beliefs. So she aligned herself with the GOP and voted for the Republican candidate on the ballot in every election until 2016. But that election, like for many of us, marked a watershed moment for her. She has stated that during that election cycle “I realized I could not rely on others to defend and advocate on behalf of the principles I so strongly believe in”. Like maybe some of you Sarah felt politically homeless. This led her to start writing. She began writing for the Buckley Club, became a front-page contributor for RedState in early 2018, and later joined Arc Digital as a columnist. She’s also been published at National Review, the Bulwark, and USA TODAY. Sarah has written prolifically and has touched on topics such as being politically homeless, the plight of women in Trump’s GOP, how feminism connects to the pro-life movement and conservatism as a whole and more topically recent, why Juneteenth should be considered a national holiday. Sarah lives in Virginia, where she works on behalf of free expression and tolerance; She met her husband on twitter; played Division 1 college soccer; and, to the delight of my 11 year old daughter, she’s been in a Taylor Swift music video (for all of a half second). Finally, there are few links that I want to mention as they pertain to this week's podcast: It’s Time for Pro-Lifers to Change the Culture on Abortion  Republicans Should Seek to End the Death Penalty, not Expand It  Destiny Herndon-De La Rosa: Why conservatives should oppose the death penalty New Wave Feminists Braver Angels Story Corps Sarah Quinlan on Twitter Sarah Quinlan on Instagram
1:20:35
June 22, 2020
The Political Nomad with Josh Gillespie Episode 15 feat. Mary Anna Mancuso
This week I'm excited to have Mary Anna Mancuso as my guest on The Political Nomad. Mary Anna is the founder of PoliticalHype.com a blog that focuses on Florida and National politics from a Millennial perspective. She’s also a media strategist. Now, before you get on my case for having another political insider on the show I think we need to realize that in the political climate of the last four years, a different breed of consultant has arisen. Now if you read Mary Anna’s bio, you’d think that she’s just another red meat Republican. But if you knew my resume, you’d think the same thing, yet here were are and I’m hosting a podcast trying to broaden the political conversation. I think that’s where Mary Anna is too. That said, her experience is very impressive. She’s worked on Lindsey Graham’s presidential campaign as a social media strategist and made her mark in Florida politics while working the reelection campaign for Florida Chief Financial Officer Jeff Atwater in 2014 and serving as Deputy Communications Director for Congressman Connie Mack’s U.S. Senate campaign in 2012. She’s also a veteran talking head of national tv and radio. There are few important links I want to mention as they pertain to this week's podcast: When Mary Anna covered the 2008 Republican National Convention for Fox News she was able to interview a few of John McCain's fellow P.O.W.'s. Those interviews left an indelible mark on her life. Check them out! Over on PoliticalHype.com, Mary Anna has a few articles definitely worth checking out. The Joe Biden Veepstakes: 6 Vice Presidential Hopefuls OP-ED: What can the climate movement learn from the COVID crisis? Mary Anna talks about Florida’s reopening and vote-by-mail Follow Mary Anna on Youtube. She's a regular talking head on local and national television as well as providing regular political commentary. Follow her today! Follow her on the other socials as well: Twitter: @MaryAnnaMancuso and "The Gram" @maryanna_mancuso. Finally, Mary Anna surprised me this week by creating her own playlist which she calls her "Trail Mix" (I love the title!) Mary Anna he still asked me to make her a Road Trip Playlist, but you'll have to subscribe to The Nomad News, the official newsletter of The Political Nomad, to get. that one. As usual, The Political Nomad is on all of the major podcasting platforms and the links are in the right hand sidebar. Please feel free to listen there and give this episode 5 stars and leave some reviews. In the meantime, feel free to leave me comment on Facebook, on Twitter, or contact me here right on my site. Enjoy this week's show!
1:26:44
June 15, 2020
The Political Nomad with Josh Gillespie Episode 14 feat. Richie Alicea
This week I'm back with my program and this week's guest is political consultant, Richie Alicea. Richie is a rare breed these days. He’s a Republican (or consultant) with a conscience. I say that somewhat in jest as I have plenty of friends who are consultants, but Richie dares what few consultants do these days. He doesn’t stick to just one side. That is to say he’s been a part of races for Independent and Republican candidates, most recently with Joe Walsh in his primary challenge to Donald Trump. What’s that? You didn’t know that Donald Trump was primaried? Well, there’s a reason for that and maybe Richie can address it. Richie holds a master’s degrees in Applied Politics from Fordham University and in Urban Planning from Hunter College. He’s been working in politics now for 15 years, including the last ten in digital politics, and has worked on races on all different levels including two presidential races. He’s currently the Digital Director for Stand Up Republic, a 501(c4) and is the founder of Great Lake Strategy, a digital engagement and strategy firm dedicated to bringing cutting edge tactics to candidates and organizations who will restore civility and pragmatism to politics. The Political Nomad is on all of the major podcasting platforms and the links are in the right hand sidebar. Please feel free to listen there and give this episode 5 stars and leave some reviews. In the meantime, feel free to leave me comment on Facebook, on Twitter, or contact me here right on my site. By the way, this week's playlist is a banger! It's features the likes of Jay-Z, Tupac, The Ohio Players, Parliament, Led Zeppelin, The Who, John Coltrane and more! So, how do you get that playlist? I'm glad you asked. Sign up for the Nomad News, the official newsletter of The Political Nomad! That's the only way to get access to all of the playlists I have made for each of my shows. The playlists are based off of the recommendations of my guests and the conversations we've had and are some of the most diverse playlists I've ever made.  So I hope you'll sign up and check it out!
1:26:00
June 8, 2020
The Political Nomad with Josh Gillespie Episode 13
These last few weeks have led to some great conversations. I honestly can't believe that my last three guests have each given me two part episodes. How amazing is that?! I'm incredibly grateful to all of my guests who have been incredibly gracious enough to give you and me their time. However, this week's show is entirely different for two reasons: 1) I don't have a guest this week and 2) it's incredibly short! With last week including a holiday plus some personal business to take care of on the family end I am providing a short ten minute monologue on events that have taken place in our country over the last couple of weeks. I really hope you'll give it a listen. Here are some links that are referenced during the show as well others that are useful and educational: Tulsa Race Massacre 'They Was Killing Black People' A Decade of Watching Black People Die White People Can Compartmentalize Police Brutality. Black People Don't Have the Luxury Poll: 6 In 10 Black Americans Say Police Unfairly Stopped Them Or A Relative Racial Divide in Attitudes Towards the Police Public Opinions of the Police: The Influence of Friends, Family, and News Media The Political Nomad is on all of the major podcasting platforms and the links are in the right hand sidebar. Please feel free to listen there and give this episode 5 stars and leave some reviews. In the meantime, feel free to leave me comment on Facebook, on Twitter, or contact me over on my site. Finally, you’ll want to sign up for the Nomad News, the official newsletter of The Political Nomad! I have really loved making these playlists. They're based off of the recommendations of my guests and the conversations we've had and are some of the most diverse playlists I've ever made. This week's playlist is tailored specifically towards my monologue. So I hope you'll sign up and check it out!
10:25
June 1, 2020
The Political Nomad with Josh Gillespie Episode 12 feat. Jacob Perry – Part 2
I hope you enjoyed part one of my conversation with Jacob Perry as much as I did. It really has been a joy to talk with him. Though I've known him for over 16 years I continued to learn something new about Jacob during this conversation. This week we wrap things up, but still get into the real meat and potatoes of our conversation. We talk about his political journey post 2004, the Tea Party, campaign life and strategy, Donald Trump and his current passions and projects.. Last week, Jacob provided us a with some great artists for a high quality playlist. This week week's features podcasts that he highly recommends spanning baseball, comedy and politics. Serial Off Air with Joe and Orel The Bill Simmons Podcast The Moment with Brian Koppleman You Made it Weird with Pete Holmes The Moth In the Dark Come to Papa Undisclosed The Political Nomad is on all of the major podcasting platforms and the links are in the right hand sidebar. Please feel free to listen there and give this episode 5 stars and leave some reviews. In the meantime, feel free to leave me comment on Facebook, on Twitter, or contact me here right on my site. Finally, you’ll want to sign up for the Nomad News, the official newsletter of The Political Nomad! I have really loved making these playlists. They're based off of the recommendations of my guests and the conversations we've had and are some of the most diverse playlists I've ever made. They really show off just how unique all of my guests are and how. entertaining these podcasts have been.
51:31
May 25, 2020
The Political Nomad with Josh Gillespie Episode 11 feat. Jacob Perry – Part 1
I’m very excited about this week's conversation. That’s because it’s with someone I’ve known most of my adult life. I first met Jacob Perry in April of 2004 at a Starbucks in Barnes and Noble. I had been invited by a congressional candidate to a call out of sorts. It wasn’t all that organized but there a met a giant of a man. Jacob was striking. He would ALWAYS easily stand out in a crowd. Obviously, he made an immediate impression. Fast forward over the last 16 years and Jacob and I have formed a pretty close bond. In fact, he’s one of my closest friends. He’s one of the few friends who I’ve wanted to work with, but never have despite our best efforts over the years. We’ve been on the opposite sides of congressional primaries, spared a bit during local “blogging wars”, but we’ve always remained friends. In the best of times and in the worst of times. And. we’ve each felt the resounding sting of what it’s like to be political castoffs. Jacob is a veteran campaigner. He started off as a Democrat, he’s run Libertarian campaigns, Republican campaigns and written for countless candidates and clients. He knows winning and losing. He knows politics. And whether he’s been right (which with a lifetime of experience he usually is) or wrong, Jacob has had an informed opinion to share with you. I think of the Frank Sinatra song “My Way” when I think of how Jacob has gone about his career. His political journey really is like no other person’s story that I've had on this podcast. The Political Nomad is on all of the major podcasting platforms and the links are in the right hand sidebar. Please feel free to listen there and give this episode 5 stars and leave some reviews. In the meantime, feel free to leave me comment on Facebook, on Twitter, or contact me here right on my site. Finally, you’ll want to sign up for the Nomad News, the official newsletter of The Political Nomad! This week’s Newsletter exclusive Road Trip Playlist is uniquely Jacob. This week's list is sporting the likes of Steely Dan, Toto, George Benson, Boz Skaggs, Yes, Bruce Hornsby and more.
58:04
May 19, 2020
The Political Nomad with Josh Gillespie Episode 10 feat. Jayvie Arellano – Part 2
I hope you enjoyed part one of my conversation with Jayvie Arellano. I really enjoyed talking with Jayvie. Even though this is the first time we really engaged in a thoughtful and thorough conversation throughout this conversation I felt as if we had been friends for ages. This week, we dig deeper into background, his early political development and identity and this. year's election in the age of Trump and COVID-19. Last week Jayvie provided for a great and one of the post musically diverse Road Trip Playlists yet! This week will feature podcasts that he recommended. Jocko Podcast Andy Frisella Michael Knowles Andrew Clavan Bill Whittle Jordan Peterson As a quick reminder, The Political Nomad is on all of the major podcasting platforms and the links are in the right hand sidebar. Please feel free to listen there and give this episode 5 stars and leave some reviews. In the meantime, feel free to leave me comment on Facebook, on Twitter, or contact me here right on my site. Finally, you’ll want to sign up for the Nomad News, the official newsletter of The Political Nomad! I have really loved making these playlists. They're based off of the recommendations of my guests and the conversations we've had and are some of the most diverse playlists I've ever made. They really show off just how unique all of my guests are and how. entertaining these podcasts have been.
58:23
May 11, 2020
The Political Nomad with Josh Gillespie Episode 9 feat. Jayvie Arellano - Part 1
Before I launched my first show, I was talking with a number of people who I wanted to have on the show as  well as getting their suggestions for potential guests. Out of those conversations came one of my previous guests, Corey Hall. One of the others was Jayvie Arellano. He was a big time suggestion. Now, I’m friends with Jayvie on Facebook and we used to hang around many of the same political convention and online social circles, but this episode was the first time that I got a chance to sit down and really talk with him and get to know him. Jayvie is originally from the Philippines and moved to the United States when he was 21. His early political leanings were shaped by the likes of The National Review, Rush Limbaugh and the Heritage Foundation. However, more recently, he’s taken a more pragmatic approach to politics after seeing the GOP squander its chances to achieve political success when they’ve controlled all or most branches of government. That doesn’t mean he’s switched parties or even left the GOP. There is so much more to Jayvie and this week he shares his story and so much more in part 1 of our conversation. As a quick reminder, The Political Nomad is on all of the major podcasting platforms. In the meantime, feel free to leave me comment on Facebook, on Twitter, or contact me directly on my site. Finally, you’ll want to sign up for the Nomad News, the official newsletter of The Political Nomad! This week’s Newsletter exclusive Road Trip Spotify playlist is probably the most diverse playlist I've put together yet. It fits really well with Jayvie's personality and features the likes of Taking Back Sunday, Great Northern, Alanis Morissette and cuts from musical scores like Pacific Rim, Game of Thrones, Star Trek: Picard and The Sims 4! It’s a great playlist.
57:25
May 5, 2020
The Political Nomad with Josh Gillespie Episode 8 feat. Chris Spangle - Part 2
I hope you enjoyed part one of my conversation with Chris Spangle last week. This week, we continue our conversation by talking about what role should politics play in our lives in the era of COVID-19, how the pandemic will play out in this year's election cycle and how one becomes a "meme-god". If you don't follow Chris Spangle or We Are Libertarians on the different social outlets you really should...if only for the memes alone. As Chris didn't have the typical "Road Trip Playlist" I'm passing along podcasts, comedians, and audio books that he mentioned that are good listens to round out one's views. I shared the initial list last week, so here is round two. Dan Carlin's Hardcore History podcast The Reason Roundtable podcast No Agenda podcast podcast Mike Duncan's Fall of Rome podcast Mike O'Meara Show podcast Ben Shapiro podcast Glenn Beck Rush Limbaugh Andy Kaufman Youtube playlist Here's the article, referenced during the recording of this two part podcast regarding a recent poll, that shows most Hoosiers supporting Governor Eric Holcomb's efforts handling of COVID-19 in Indiana from Abdul Hakim-Shabazz and Indy Politics. In case you missed it, here is last week's list: Disturber of the Peace - The Life of H.L. Mencken by William Manchester American Dream - George Carlin (Not safe for work and it's a youtube clip) Dan Snow's History Hit podcast The Daily by the New York Times podcast The Joe Rogan Experience podcast As a quick reminder, The Political Nomad is on all of the major podcasting platforms.
58:19
April 27, 2020
The Political Nomad with Josh Gillespie Episode 7 feat. Chris Spangle - Part 1
I first met Chris Spangle as a young and excitable volunteer on a congressional campaign back in 2004. Chris was the President of the IUPUI College Republicans and someone who was able to round up some good volunteers for the Andy Horning for Congress campaign. To say that campaign was a little unconventional is being generous. We lost, but it was a lot closer than people expected. Fast forward a few years and Chris has had a rollercoaster career on the professional side as well as in politics. He has been radio show producer, an executive director for the Libertarian Party in Indiana and now, he runs the successful We Are Libertarians podcast with his own We Are Libertarians podcast network. He also produces other podcasts, such as The Pat Down with Comedian Ms. Pat - which he also co-hosts - and is the Digital Director for the nationally syndicated morning radio show, the Bob and Tom Show. Now, don't make the mistake of writing off this show. Chris isn't the stereotypical Libertarian. He refers to himself as a compassionate Libertarian. I've known Chris for a long time and all of this comes out in this week's episode. I'm taking a different approach to the playlist this week. I usually reserve these as newsletter exclusives. This week's playlist takes a bit of a turn however. It's not a typical one. Since this show happens to be a two-part episode I passing along some links to podcasts, comedic bits and audio books that he has recommended that provide, in his assessment, a well rounded, if not funny at times, view of the news and of the world: Disturber of the Peace - The Life of H.L. Mencken by William Manchester American Dream - George Carlin (Not safe for work and it's a youtube clip) Dan Snow's History Hit podcast The Daily by the New York Times podcast The Joe Rogan Experience podcast There will be more of Chris's suggestions in next week's newsletter. Trust me, what you see above is just the start. In the meantime, feel free to leave me comment on Facebook, on Twitter, or contact me on my site.
1:03:26
April 20, 2020
The Political Nomad with Josh Gillespie Episode 6 feat. Susie Moore
"Good evening and welcome to another edition of Gillespie! With me, as always, is my co-host Susie Moore, @smoosieq on the Twitters" is how opened my previous podcast years ago. This week, I have on my former co-host, Ms. Susie Moore. For those of you who have followed Susie over the years, she’s never shied from telling her story. She truly has been on a political journey. It wasn’t that long ago that she was a Democrat. But things weren’t connecting with her and the Democrat party. Over time she saw her views shifting and that led to a political party shift. That doesn’t mean that the party she calls home now is or has been completely inline with her views. But now she has a voice and she’s willing to call a spade a spade and hold all elected officials feet to the fire. Susie is editor and a writer at the popular conservative website Red State and is also, more importantly, a cancer survivor. I admire the heck out of Susie and it’s been too long since we’ve chatted. I’m glad to share this conversation with you this week. As a quick reminder, The Political Nomad is on all of the major podcasting platforms and the links are in the right hand sidebar. Please feel free to listen there and give this episode 5 stars and leave some reviews. In the meantime, feel free to leave me comment on Facebook, on Twitter, or contact me here right on my site. Finally, you'll want to sign up for the Nomad News, the official newsletter of The Political Nomad! This week's Newsletter exclusive Road Trip Spotify playlist is a special one and includes the likes of The Eagles, the Indigo Girls as well as tracks from the "O Brother Where Art Thou" and "Good Morning Vietnam" soundtracks plus other artists. As usual, it's a good playlist.
58:21
April 13, 2020
The Political Nomad with Josh Gillespie - Episode 1
It's finally here! The very first episode The Political Nomad. I'm very excited about this new venture into podcasting. The first episode gives you a little more insight into my background, what got me to where I am today and a breakdown of what to expect from future shows. I also introduce a weekly feature. And that's the corresponding playlist that goes with the podcast. Every good rode trip has a playlist! I will have a new playlist each week which will feature music chosen by my guests and me. Since I'm the only guest this week, it's music I chose. However, you need to sign up for the newsletter to get the playlist. So be sure to sign up for that. I'm hoping to develop an additional weekly feature to the podcast as well. And that's a Q&A between you, the listener, and me. I'll take questions I receive from my website and the socials and answer them in a future podcast. Feel free to leave comment on Facebook, Tweet me, or contact me here right on my site. Finally, I'll have my show on all the major podcast platforms soon, but I need to get the show going before that can happen so you can listen to this week's episode on here, on SoundCloud or on YouTube. I hope you enjoy! Links for topics during the show: 1. Lyrics to Derek Webb's Mockingbird album 2. Verses on caring for the environment a. Top 7 Bibles Verses About Taking Care of the Earth by Pastor Jack Wellman 3. Verses about taking care of: a. immigrants, b. fatherless and the widow 4. Verses on racism and prejudice a. 10 Reasons racism is offensive to God
20:01
April 11, 2020
The Political Nomad with Josh Gillespie Episode 5 feat. Corey Hall
Corey Hall is someone you can meet for the first time and at the end of the conversation feel like you’ve been friends for ages. That was my experience with Corey. Some of you may know him. Some may not. I didn’t before this show, but when I heard his story of his political journey I recognized that others should hear it too because their story could be similar. Corey was raised in a Democrat family, from a Democrat learning state, but eventually his politics shifted. He’s voted for the last few GOP presidential candidates, but held his breath and his vote in 2016. Now, he’s tired of what he’s seeing and feels compelled to vote against his way of thought from 2016. How did he get here? Maybe this is something that sounds similar to you because you feel the same way. *****Sign up for the The Nomad News, the official newsletter of The Political Nomad where you get the Road Trip Playlist that corresponds with this episode and all the previous episodes! (http://joshgillespie.com/nomad-news-signup).   Links to check out:  Our facebook - http://www.facebook.com/thenomadpod Our Twitter -  http://www.twitter.com/thenomadpod Our Instagram - http://www.instagram.com/thepoliticalnomad   Mentioned during the show - https://twitter.com/biden4pres
1:02:36
April 6, 2020
The Political Nomad with Josh Gillespie Episode 4 feat. Matt K. Lewis
I have special bonus episode of The Political Nomad this week. Episode 4 features Matt K. Lewis. Matt is a Senior Columnist at The Daily Beast, a CNN political commentator, and the author of Too Dumb to Fail. I first met Matt years ago at a CPAC convention while he was working for The Daily Caller which is a conservative news outlet. He also made fairly regular appearances on Fox News. I followed him on Twitter and he seemed like a really good guy. Matt is a down to earth journalist who is easy to talk to and to read. I have followed Matt over the years and noticed his growing frustration with all elected officials, but especially with GOP elected officials. You could see it in his writing, in his tweets and in his own podcast, Matt Lewis and the News (which you should definitely check out). Matt shares his frustration with where his party has gone over the last few years, but mistake that for him not being a conservative. Matt's convictions that he's grown up with are still as strong as they always were. But this interview gives a better insight of some the inside beltway changes he's seen that maybe some aren't so familiar with. This is a great show and I'm happy to share it with you so soon. ***Sign up today for the Nomad News Letter!
1:01:31
April 1, 2020
The Political Nomad with Josh Gillespie Episode 3 feat. Holly Davis
Josh's guest is this episode is Holly Davis. Josh known Holly for almost 15 years. Holly has a fascinating background that has taken her from State Senate intern to running some of the more influential political organizations in Indiana. She’s also criss-crossed this country - literally - working in (in order mind you) Indianapolis, Washington D.C., Seattle Washington, Austin Texas and back to Indiana.    During her cross country travels Josh began to seen a change in Holly. She has always been a strong advocate for woman’s rights - especially championing them in a male dominated political climate in Indiana - but as a mother of three daughters he has seen her compassion for many considered down trodden grow over the years often questioning what she considered her own party’s stance on certain issues. But first and foremost, she has been a strong and vocal advocate for women.  ***Sign up today for the Nomad News Letter!
57:34
March 30, 2020
The Political Nomad with Josh Gillespie Episode 2 feat. Jim Brown
On the second episode of The Political Nomad, Josh welcomes his very first guest.  It's someone he's known for almost ten years. Josh first ran into Jim Brown when he was managing a congressional campaign against Josh's boss, at the time, who happened to be the incumbent. Jim also worked on the main floor of the same building Josh worked in. Since then they’ve shared a few beers, exchanged some war stories and Jim and his family traveled the entire world last year. Now, Jim is telling the story of his political journey.  Sign up today for the Nomad News Letter!
54:10
March 23, 2020