Conversations with Sports Fans

We learn about his sports fan origin story (1989 NCAA Men's Basketball Championship Game), his early years in greater New York City, his family's connection to Binghamton, NY, and the Yankees' Binghamton Triplets where Whitey Ford and Thurman Munson once played, and the town's long-defunct Broome Dusters minor league hockey team that played a role in inspiring the film "Slapshot."

There's quite a lot of Syracuse and Carrier Dome talk - including a wild 1991 game against Notre Dame in which the Irish won, 101-98, on a buzzer-beating triple by Elmer Bennett - as well as all that there is to offer sports fan in the Beltway these days.

• Michael's Website, Mike O'Connell Jr.
• Michael's Podcast, Math and Musings
• Michael's Latest Book, The 365 Greatest Movies Ever Made and the Days You Should Watch Them

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Our guest this week, high schooler Jane Meinecke, is the daughter of previous guest, Derek Meinecke (heard in S:2, E:37). She clearly comes about her fandom honestly, but she split from her father's love of Manchester City and instead chose upstart, Brentford, as her EPL club of choice.

Both Jane and Derek share a love of the Detroit Lions and she credits her father's hunch to by season tickets prior to the 2022 season for an even deeper devotion with the Lions' recently completed NFC Championship Game-run.

During our discussion Jane shares stories of her three times seeing the Brentford Bees in person as well as of that magical Lions' playoff run. Jane's favorite players on Brentford include defenders Ben Mee and Ethan Pinnock and forward Bryan Mbeumo. Her favorite Lions are offensive lineman Penei Sewell and tight end Sam LaPorta.

We also learn that some day she hopes to see an Olympics live including her favorite athlete, hurdler Sidney McLaughlin-Levrone, as well as her beloved Bees in the UEFA Champions League.

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This week's guest is Larry Lester, a co-founder of the Negro Leagues Baseball Museum and one of America's foremost historians on all things Negro Leagues.

A native of Kansas City, we learn about Larry's youth and his early interest in the hometown Athletics and the heartache when they moved west following the 1967 season.

Larry notes his interest in the Negro Leagues was borne out of those former Kansas City Monarchs and their families who remained in the area (Buck O'Neil's wife was one of his teachers) as well discovering author Robert Peterson's Only the Ball Was White.

Before we let Larry leave, we asked him for some of the ex-Negro Leaguers who are worthy of consideration for enshrinement in the National Baseball Hall of Fame. Those include:

• Rap Dixon
• John Beckwith
• Chet Brewer
• Newt Allen
• "Cannonball" Nick Redding

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Before 2024 March Madness fades to black Monday night, we catch up with Evan Blanchard, a student manager of Oakland (MI) University's men's basketball team, who was seated courtside for the 14th-seeded Golden Grizzlies' first-round upset of third-seed, Kentucky.

And, as we all prepare to watch upstart North Carolina State University in the Men's Final Four, Evan had a front row seat for the Wolfpack's victory over OU as well and tells us the the big guy, D.J. Burns Jr., is both big and fundamentally sound.

Beyond talking Greg Kampe, Jack Gohlke, Blake Lampman, and Trey Townsend, Evan shares what it's like to be a student manager at Division I basketball school, recollections of time spent with dad watching Michigan State University football, his love of the Detroit Tigers, and thoughts about the Detroit Lions' coming season.

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In this episode we're joined by Mike Veeck, a member of one of baseball's most notable families. His grandfather Bill Veeck Sr. was President of the Chicago Cubs, his father Bill Jr. was an owner of the Milwaukee Brewers (then a Triple A team), the Cleveland Indians, the St. Louis Browns, and the Chicago White Sox (twice) and was immortalized in bronze in the National Baseball Hall of Fame in 1991.

Along the way, Mike's worked for four MLB franchises and 20 Minor League affiliates. His most noteworthy recent run occurred as part of the ownership group with the St. Paul Saints who were played in the Independent Northern League at the time. The Saints provide the name of the 2023 Netflix film about Mike and his family, "The Saint of Second Chances."

Currently, Mike and his son Night Train, have ownership stakes in the Joliet Slammers, the Charleston RiverDogs, and a minority ownership stake in the Larne F.C. in Ireland.

Buckle up for this fast-paced episode, as Mike brings the sort of energy that led to over 700 sellouts in a row in St. Paul.

Along the way, Mike talks jai alai, Larry Doby, Satchel Paige, Disco Demolition Night, Bill Murray, and a plethora of promotions from his life selling tickets.

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In this episode we're delighted to be rejoined by Craig Caswell (S:2, E:16). When we last spoke to Craig he'd recently finished his quest to see every NCAA Division I men's basketball team play in person. Well, LeMoyne College joined the ranks this season and Craig took a trip to Syracuse, NY, to see it beat Long Island, 87-74, in late January to remain up-to-date.

Beyond that, we talk to Craig about his other passion: disc golf.

At the time of this recording he'd played 727 courses over 47 states and eight countries since he first played about after walking into Dayton's Hazy Shade Disc Golf (5% discount if use TEAMHAZYCRAIG at checkout) back in 2013.

We learn how he got interested in the sport (Hint: Tiger Woods), and about some of his favorite courses (Flip City in Shelby, MI, Harmony Bends at Strawn Park in Columbia, MO, and Tampere Disc Golf Center, in Tampere, Finland).

Craig also provides us with some history about the sport, a brief tutorial, some tips for getting started, and where and how prospective players are able to get more information:

• JomezPro YouTube Channel (post-produced tournament coverage) 
• Disc Golf Network (live tournament coverage) 
• Hyzers & Highways (Craig's podcast, available on a variety of platforms but linked here on Spotify)

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You're able to find their 2022 book, The Basketball Mavens - Marching to Madness at that link. You'll be able to follow their 2024 journey on X (formerly Twitter) @MarsMadness.

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Bill, a semi-retired educator and basketball coach, has spent decades researching the thousands of players who've passed through the Detroit PSL over the past century. He helped found the website detroitpslbasketball.com that is working on a refresh but still contains a plethora of content.

A teacher at Detroit's Barbour Intermediate School, that saw athletic legends such as Joe Altobelli, John Rowser, Bill Yearby, Ron LeFlore, Oliver Darden, Lindsay Hairston, and Johnny Davis pass through, Bill began to dedicate himself to ongoing research of those and many others.

His research has included plenty of conversations with former athletes, coaches, and teachers, and oodles of time with the Burton Historical Collection in Detroit's Public Library.

During our time with Bill we learn about the Detroit connection to the Harlem Globetrotters and the famed Brewster-Wheeler Recreation Center.

We also ask Bill to provide us with this all-time PSL team. Caught off-guard, Bill called us back so there's a special bonus segment at the end where Bill provides us with his all-time Detroit PSL teams (four of them!).

• First Team: Jalen Rose, Ralph Simpson, George Gervin, Spencer Haywood, and Mel Daniels
• Second Team: Johnny Davis, Steve Smith, Charlie North, Dan Roundfield, and Derrick Coleman
• Third Team: Howard Eisley, Voshon Lenard, Terry Tyler, Roy Tarpley, and Reggie Harding
• Fourth Team: Eric Money, Coniel Norman, Larry Fogle, Maurice Taylor, and Robert Traylor

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We're delighted to be joined in this episode by Dick Mackey, one of the founders of the Iditarod Sled Dog Race, which pushes off this weekend in Anchorage, AK, this weekend for the 52nd time.

Mackey, who is joined in this episode by his biographer Lew Freedman (a third-time guest on Conversations), shares the story of how he and Joe Redington Sr. created the 1,000-mile race across Alaska over 50 years ago.

Mackey also recalls the finish from his 1978 Iditarod win, when his team edged Rick Swenson's on Nome's Front Street by one second, easily the closest finish in the race's history.

Along with his sons Bill, Jason, Lance, and Rick, the Mackey family has won the race six times. Jason has a team entered this year after taking a hiatus to rebuild his kennel.

In addition to the Mackey's biography, One Second to Glory, Freedman has a new Iditarod-focused book out, Adventures on the Iditarod Trail, published by Northern Light Media.

Links

• Video of the 1978 Iditarod Finish
• The Iditarod Website

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An Indiana native, David has plenty of tales to tell about - shockingly! - basketball of various varieties: high school and college, primarily, and even a nod to the "Hoosiers" gym in Knightstown, IN.

Growing up in northcentral Indiana, David had his pick of MLB teams and he chose the Detroit Tigers. He has fond memories of both the 1968 and 1984 World Series titles.

Among David's other passions is the Indianapolis 500 attending the race for the better part of 40 years and he provides lessons learned about where to sit if you ever make to "The Greatest Spectacle in Racing." He was there for Danny Sullivan's ⁠1985 "Spin & Win" and Al Unser Jr. split-second victory over Scott Goodyear in 1992 and

Finally, he's been to a few major golf championships, including the PGA Championship in 1986 at Inverness and 1991 at Crooked Stick.

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We're excited to be joined in this episode by Phil Pritchard who is better known to most folks as The Keeper of the Cup (in fact, that's his Twitter handle).

As a Vice-President of the Resource Center and Curator at the Hockey Hall of Fame in Toronto, ON, one of Phil's many responsibilities is to accompany the Stanley Cup on many of its global journeys.

During our Conversation with Phil, we learn how this British-born accountant became a sports fan, an employee at the Hockey Hall of Fame, and also the white-gloved handler of the most famous trophy in sport. It all began listening to a Boston Bruins-Montreal Canadiens' radio broadcast.

Along the way, he shared two remarkable journeys he's taken the Cup on. One was its first-ever trip to Australia for a pair of exhibition games in 2023 and the other was a trip with Phillipp Grubauer to Bavaria, Germany, that ended with cows drinking beer from the Stanley Cup. We kid you not!

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We made inquiries to Taylor Swift's camp for her to join us in advance of Sunday's big event, but alas ... fear not! We have the next best thing with Dr. Edward Hirt, the Director of Pedagogy at Indiana University's Department of Psychological and Brain Sciences. He's also the Director of IU's HirtLab.

Much of Dr. Hirt's interest focuses on the hows and whys of sports fandom. He's been featured by major media outlets such as ESPN, PBS, the New York Times, the Wall Street Journal, and the Washington Post. He can now add Conversations to his CV.

During our time together, Dr. Hirt not only traces his roots as a fan, but also helps us understand the benefits of the human connection and shared community that is being a sports fan. Dr. Hirt touches on the research done about how our favorite team's wins and losses impact our self-esteem.

Finally, he provides his take on how sports played a role in healing the the United States following the 9/11 terrorist attacks.

This was truly a fascinating episode and should not be missed.

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During our time with Hedy we learn how she became a sports fan (think heredity), her love of all things Super Bowl, what it's like to attend games at Green Bay's historic Lambeau Field as well as what it's like to have an ownership stake in her favorite NFL team, and some of her travels as a fan of the Wisconsin Badgers; including a visit to AT&T Stadium in Arlington, TX, to see UW play Alabama led by Derrick Henry.

We also learn about what it's like to be in downtown Anchorage for the start of the Iditarod Sled Dog Race and how she'd love to go back in time to 1967's NFL Championship at Lambeau between Green Bay and the visiting Dallas Cowboys. A game that's now known as the Ice Bowl.

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We're excited to be joined in this episode by a name that's synonymous with basketball in the city of Detroit: Sam Washington Jr. During our time with Sam he shares many a tale from his time working side-by-side with his father (Sam Sr.) at St. Cecilia's aka "The Saint" located at Livernois and Stearns on the city's west side.

The Saint served as the crucible Detroit basketball players to pass through for decades beginning in 1967. Whether it be its annual summer high school league or the star-studded Pro-Am League that regularly drew capacity crowds.

Who played at The Saint? Who didn't!?! Sam drops the following names during our time together: George Gervin, Spencer Haywood, Dave DeBusschere, Magic Johnson, Isiah Thomas, Derrick Coleman, Steve Smith, Jalen Rose, and Chris Webber to name a few.

Sam also notes some 1-time players who went on to do things of note outside basketball. Dave Bing (future Detroit Mayor), Marvin Gaye and Smokey Robinson (Motown Records' legends), Tony Dungy (Hall of Fame NFL Coach), Jerome Bettis (Pro Football Hall of Famer), and Mat Ishbia (current Phoenix Suns owner)

There are more ... so many more, including recollections of the time a team from Brooklyn, NY, came to town led by Bernard King and Vinnie Johnson, as well as his dad's refusal to let Darryl Dawkins play for wholly reasonable reasons.

In 2015 Sam Jr. founded the Sam Washington Foundation a 501c3 to help honor and preserve his father's work.

• A free youth basketball clinic is scheduled for February 17 from noon-2 p.m. at the Hawk's Nest Sports Dome in Warren. Contact 248-497-8265 for more information.
• The annual Sam Washington Foundation Golf Outing is scheduled for June 15 at Copper Creek Golf Club. Contact the same number for more information.

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We're joined in this episode by David McEllis, one half of the the podcasting duo (along with Matt Kuzma) who bring the world the abundantly entertaining show: 1988 Topps. McEllis and Kuzma do deep dives on one of the 792 cards from the 1988 Topps Baseball Card Set. You're able to find the show on Facebook (1988 Topps Podcast), Twitter (@Topps1988), and Instagram (@1988ToppsPodcast).

During our time with David, a Chicago-area native, we learn about his coming of age as a sports fan in the mid-1980s with a Super Bowl Shufflin' Chicago Bears, seeing Chicago White Sox games at the original Comiskey Park, and how FIFA World Cup video games hipped him to the Liverpool Football Club.

We also learn how 1988 Topps came to be, what the experience has been like, and what some of the most popular episodes have been.

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We're joined this week by Dennis Harp, a native of tiny Wolcottville, IN, a small college basketball player at Dawson (MT) Community College and Marty (SD) College, and the 1-time youngest NCAA Division I head coach at Hardin-Simmons University in Abilene, TX. Today, Dennis is the Executive Director of the Dawson College Foundation.

During our discussion he retraces his fandom from his youth as a Mickey Mantle-led New York Yankees' fan, his first MLB game at Detroit's Briggs' Stadium to see Mantle and the Yankees play the Tigers, to his childhood in basketball-crazed Indiana where he discovered Purdue University's Rick Mount and, ultimately, LSU's Pete Maravich.

During our discussion Dennis shares stories about high school football in Texas and high school basketball in Indiana, what it was like being the parent of two all-state athletes (basketball playing son Ryan attended Southern Methodist University and volleyball playing daughter Ellie attended Grace College). He also chats about his confidants in the coaching fraternity, including longtime LSU coach Dale Brown and Indiana and Texas Tech University coach Bobby Knight.

Finally, Dennis discusses how, almost as suddenly as he became a Division I coach he was an NAIA coach when Hardin-Simmons dropped basketball from the highest to the lowest level of competition.

Check out author Marc David's biography about Dennis here, Dennis Harp: All the Hoopla.

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• Season 2, Episode 22 - Doc Emrick
• Season 2, Episode 16 - Craig Caswell
• Season 2, Episode 6 - Dr. Channon Washington
• Season 2, Episode 37 - Derek Meinecke

Our annual Spotify Wrapped noted these other episodes as among the most widely streamed and/or shared from the past year:

• Season 1, Episode 29 - Steve Book
• Season 1, Episode 11 - Don Drooker
• Season 2, Episode 10 - Paula Herbart
• Season 2, Episode 13 - Colin Lancaster

Look for a special College Football Playoff Championship Game episode to drop on Sunday.

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• Ernie Sellers, University of Michigan
• Derrick Jennings, University of Washington
• Landy Watson, University of Texas
• Bill Thornton, University of Alabama

Fun Fact: By virtue of Washington joining the Big Ten next season and the Longhorns visiting Michigan for a non-league game on Week 2 in 2024, UM will - for sure - play all three 2023 CFP schools by October 5, 2024, when the Wolverines visit Husky Stadium.

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In this special holiday season episode, we're joined by Father Ron Victor, pastor at St. Isidore Church in Macomb, MI.

Fr. Ron reflects on that day in 1962 when he became a Norm Cash fan, how he became a Michigan State Spartans' fan, the importance of sports during his 17 years in the seminary, recollections of the 1957 Detroit Lions' NFL Championship, and how he was in the building in 1968 when the Tigers' walked off the Yankees to clinch the AL Pennant, and in 1984 when they beat San Diego, 8-4, to win the World Series.

We also find some time to discuss the intersection of sports and religion, Fr. Ron's appreciation of the Advent Season, and why his favorite holiday is, somewhat surprisingly, Halloween.

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Todd was a fan of the Atlanta Braves thanks in part because his father's office at Grady Memorial Hospital overlooked Fulton County Stadium and also because the family attended the same church as then-owner Ted Turner.

In Milwaukee, Todd transitioned to the Milwaukee Brewers and discovered the NBA's Bucks that featured players such as Junior Bridgeman, Marques Johnson, Bob Lanier, and Sidney Moncrief thanks to his school's "Books for Bucks" reading program.

Todd's family then moved to Quincy, IL, which is across the Mississippi River from Mark Twain's 1-time home of Hannibal, MO. While there, Todd's family discovered high school basketball at an elite level with an ardent fan base. (Check out the pregame Blue Devil mascot entrance here.) Todd was able to see future Big Ten players Bruce Douglas (Illinois) and Michael Payne (Iowa) play at Quincy.

Todd then attended high school at the Kent School (a boarding school in Connecticut) where he was introduced to the Boston-New York rivalry the fall he arrived on campus when the Red Sox and Mets squared off in the 1986 World Series.

It was during his time in high school that Todd's life was touched by tragedy, which might help explain why he embraces the opportunity to attend just about any sporting event. He's as comfortable at the NCAA Division III Calvin College-Hope College basketball rivalry - it received a special feature on State Champs! show found here - as he is attending the Indianapolis 500.

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Kevin Beers, the voice of the Oakland (MI) University Golden Grizzlies, joins us in this episode. Kevin has been the O'rena's public address announcer since 2004.

His roots in the Detroit-area - and fandom of the home teams - goes back even further. A graduate of Walled Lake Central HS, Kevin recalls early trips to Detroit's Tiger Stadium with his father to Kevin's favorite Tiger, Aurelio Rodriquez.

Beyond watching Rodriguez pick it at the hot corner in Detroit, Kevin's love of sports began thanks to being neighbors of high school star and future Michigan State University defensive back, Mike Imhoff, who was later tragically killed in an after school shooting in Hernando, FL, where he coached.

Kevin also recalls plenty of trips to the Pontiac Silverdome to see the Detroit Lions and Hall of Famer, Barry Sanders, as well as the Detroit Pistons of the early-to-mid-1980s when a buddy would get Kevin and his friends into courtside seats after halftime.

We also touch on his time at Central Michigan University during the Coach Jay Smith-era, his introduction to broadcasting, and how he came to be the voice of the O'rena. Kevin even gives us a sample of one of his signature calls when OU's Travis Bader was lighting up the scoreboard from deep in the early 2010s.

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We're joined in this episode by Connor Ryan, a twentysomething from suburban Detroit who played quite a lot of hockey growing up. Unsurprisingly, then, we learn that one of his earliest memories of being a sports fan involve the Detroit Red Wings-Pittsburgh Penguins 2009 Stanley Cup Final Game 7 (won by Pittsburgh, 2-1) at a block party at his friend's house.

We also hear tell of a chance meeting Connor had with Nicklas Lidstrom at a Barnes & Noble as well as how he feels about the progress of the current Red Wings' squad. And his thoughts on a fellow Connor ... Chicago Blackhawks' rookie, Connor Bedard.

Connor is also a Detroit Lions' fan and chats us up about what it's like to have a team worth rooting for these days.

And, not to bury the lead, as we learned when we spoke with Connor's mother, Kathy in our "Mother's Day Special" episode, the two of them attended Super Bowl LVI as a guest of his brother, Brendan, who is a member of the Los Angeles Rams Cheer team. Connor recalls his late-night run-in with the Vince Lombardi Trophy during the post-game celebration.

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In this episode we're joined by Mark Shirk, a former political science professor who's an avid baseball fan. You're able to find Mark on X, the platform formerly known as Twitter, "Exploring Baseball History" under the handle of @bballhist where he regularly posts baseball content.

During our time with Mark we learn about his contrarian nature as a youngster, choosing to support the Don Mattingly-led New York Yankees rather than the more geographically appropriate Philadelphia Phillies. Mark notes that during his formative years his parents noticed his interest in baseball and began feeding him books on baseball history along with baseball cards and, thus, began his lifelong fascination with the history of the American Pastime.

We also discover that Mark is a proponent of a "Big Hall" (e.g. including more indcutees in the National Baseball Hall of Fame), has ideas about what the future of baseball might look like (hint: he favors agressive expansion), his evolution as a sports fan, and a long-term baseball book project he continues to mull that focuses on ex-Negro League players who came along at the wrong time following integration and didn't really get a good shot playing in the Major Leagues. Players like Buster Clarkson, Marvin Williams, Sam Jethroe, and Luke Easter.

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• Teasley's Baseball-Reference page;
• Teasley's Wayne State University Athletics Hall of Fame page;
• Fellow WSU Hall of Famers: John Kline and Charlie Primas;
• Historic Hamtramck Stadium;
• The Brewster Recreation Center and the Kronk Recreation Center;
• Baseball Hall of Famers: Satchel Paige, Jackie Robinson, & Turkey Stearnes;
• Formder boxing Heavyweight Champion, Joe Louis;
• The Detroit Stars and New York Cubans Negro League franchises;
• The PONY League and the Mandak League;
• Fellow Detroit schoolboy star, Sammy Gee's Baseball Reference page;
• Longtime Detroit high school coach and the first black NCAA Division I basketball coach, Will Robinson;
• Long time MLB player, Minnie Minoso's Baseball Reference page;
• Long-time MLB player and Detroit antive Willie Horton's Baseball Reference page;
• Detroit Northwestern HS stars Alan Hardy, Curtis Jones, and Terry Tyler;
• The Goodwill Games;
• The Michigan Chronicle.

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We're joined this week by Canadian transplant Brent Savidant. The son of a Canadian Air Force member, Brent and his family spent time in various remote outposts throughout Canada and even several years on a NATO base in the Netherlands. It was during this stint overseas that Brent has his first core sports memory: The 1974 World Cup Final between the Netherlands and host West Germany. Dutch start Johan Cruyf and company lost to West Germany, 2-1.

Brent recollects about the forced choice most Canadians needed to make during the 1970s pre-cable TV and NHL expansion era: Toronto Maple Leafs or Montreal Canadiens. He chose the Canadiens and his disdain for the Maple Leafs and Leafs' fans burns hot to this day.

We reminisce about visits to the old Montreal Forum as well as the 1976 Montreal Summer Olympics and the Montreal Expos. He was a fan of them all, especially the Expos. We discuss painful memories like 1981's "Black Monday" loss to the Los Angeles Dodgers in the National League Championship Series as well as the strike-halted 1994 season when - Brent's convinced - the Expos were on their way to a World Series Championship.

Brent also touches on switching his allegiance from the Canadiens to the Ottawa Senators upon their 1992 expansion, his love of English Football (his club, Leeds United was relegated to the Championship this season), and the Tour de France.

Finally, he notes falling hard for the Detroit Lions upon relocating to the Detroit area at the height of Barry Sanders' time on the field.

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We're joined this week by a pair of notable sports fans. One is highly acclaimed sports photographer Jean Fruth. The other is the former President of the National Baseball Hall of Fame and Museum, Jeff Idelson. Together, the pair have founded Grassroots Baseball, a 501(c)(3) non-profit dedicated to promoting and enhancing the game of baseball, especially at the amateur levels.

The organization has published a pair of coffee table books about baseball: Grassroots Baseball: Where Legends Begin and Grassroots Baseball: Route 66 (sold out) and is working on a third, Grassroots Baseball: Women.

During our time with this duo, we learn of Jean's beginnings as a sports photographer (her children's youth leagues, of all things) and tips for the aspiring sports photographer (hint: the equipment does make a difference but there are other things you can do) and of Jeff's work for two of baseball's most storied franchises, the Boston Red Sox (his childhood favorites) and the New York Yankees. We also learn of the rather flippant advice Yankees' owner George Steinbrenner gave him upon starting in the Bronx.

You're able to view Fruth's remarkable works of photography (sports and otherwise) at her website which is located here.

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In this episode we're joined by longtime Seattle-area resident Tom Steury who shares tales of the Mariners, SuperSonics, and Seahawks where he's been a season-ticket holder for years which makes him a bonafide 12th Man. Tom also reminsces about his early life growing up in Berne, IN, huddling around an uncle's TV to watch tiny Milan defeat Muncie Central, 32-30, (the inspiration for the movie, Hoosiers), and his time at Purdue University with a future Olympian and NBA star, Terry Dischinger (who just recently passed away).

And, not to bury the lead, but Tom also shares his decades-long quest to shoot 1 million free throws (accomplished in 2022) and recently making his 1 millionth free throw. Check out the video of the event here.

What's next for Tom? Not to spoil it, but he wants to get his overall percentage up to 93%. No shocker that this retired Boeing engineer knows exactly how many more he'll need to make to get there and about how long it'll take him to accomploish it.

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We're joined in this episode by Alex Parker, a Fairbanks, AK, native who grew to love sports early on thanks to his father, Tim (S:1, E:3).

At first, it was exposure to local hockey teams such as the University of Alaska Nanooks and the NAHL's Fairbanks Ice Dogs. Later, he was exposed to the beautiful game at the 2010 and 2014 Men's World Cups. After matriculating to Denver University, an early roommate of Alex's exposed him to the English Premier League and he became a devotee of Liverpool FC.

During out time with Alex we learn of his experience as part of the Seahawks' renowned "12th Man," his immediate devotion to the Kraken, being in Denver for the Broncos' Super Bowl 50 victory and the DU Pioneers' 2017 NCAA Men's Ice Hockey Championship.

And we also veer into non-mainstream sports such as Australian Rules Football, which partially led him to choose New Zealand as his study abroad location where he became fond of rugby. He's a fan of cycling and American Sepp Kuss who recently stunned the cycling world by winning the Vuelta a Espana as a domestique (Alex explains) as well as British rider Mark Cavendish. He even drops in how he witnessed the final stage of the 2005 Tour de France as a youngster atop his father's shoulders along the Champs-Elysees as later-disgraced champion Lance Armstrong won his final Tour.

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• Allan Travers who pitched one game for the Detroit Tigers during the 1912 season when the Tigers' were protesting a suspension to star Ty Cobb by fielding a non-competitive team of Philadelphians during a 24-2 loss to the Philadelphia Athletics on May 18.
• An Eddie Gaedel autograph on paper. Gaedel, the 3-foot, 7-inch player, was famously signed by St. Louis Browns' and pinch-hit to lead off the second game of a doubleheader August 19, 1951, against the Tigers. To go with the Gaedel signature, Steve has 15 autographed baseballs from others who participated in the game. Including Browns' batboy Bill DeWitt Jr. who is currently an owner of the St. Louis Cardinals.
• Tigers' firstbaseman Johnny Neun who turned one of only 15 unassisted triple plays in baseball history during the May 31, 1927 1-0 Tiger win over Cleveland.

And good news for all, Steve found a willing taker on his desire to donate the entire collection. The Grand Rapids Public Museum will receive the collection early next year. Steve and his wife, Mary, are currently undertaking the rigorous process of appraising the value of the collection to appease the IRS which, we learn, is pretty persnickety when it comes to sports appraisals.

We learn about all that and so much more during our time with Steve, including many trips to Notre Dame Stadium through the years to root on his wife's alma mater.

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We're joined today by John Paklidenaz a now-retired educator and union leader from Farwell, MI, who previously appeared in S:1, E:12 (Little League Baseball World Series Special).

In this episode, John gets the full "Conversations" treatment. We learn about going to Detroit Tigers' games with his Teamsters' member father who parked at the union hall on Trumbull Avenue and walked to the old Tiger Stadium.

We also follow John to college at Central Michigan University where he grew to appreciate women's athletics and continues to be a champion of those "non-revenue" sports to this day. (Of course it wouldn't be a conversation between John and host Doug [an Eastern Michigan University alum] if there wasn't some digressing into the intra-state Mid-American Conference rivalry.)

We also discover that John has some sort of lucky aura about him as he's won The Masters lottery twice (he's going again next spring) and has been to a pair of Ryder Cups (Hazeltine National Golf Club [MN] in 2016 and last month in Rome.) He also won tickets to 2022's 150th Open Championship at St. Andrews but was unable to attend.

Of course, it wouldn't be a Conversation with John if his family's long-standing involvement with the Little League Baseball World Series didn't come up.

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We're joined in this episode by Andy Appleby, founder and owner of the 4-team United Shore Professional Baseball League in Utica, MI.

Andy has spent a lifetime working in the sports business, beginning out of Springfield (MA) College with the Detroit Pistons before ultimately founding General Sports Worldwide. It was through this enterprise that he wound up becoming chairman and owner of the Derby County (England) Football Club and owner of the Midwest League's Fort Wayne (IN) Wizards (now the TinCaps).

The USPBL just completed its eighth season of competition between the Birmingham-Bloomfield Beavers, Eastside Diamond Hoppers, Utica Unicorns, and Westside Woolly Mammoths.

During our time with Andy we touch on just about everything from being a fan to being an employee to being an owner and how's attempted to marry the three at the USPBL. Andy even notes how "Welcome to Wrexham" is a pretty close representation to what it was like in Derby County.

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A native of metro-Detroit, Fran's able to trace his fandom back to his hometown Detroit Tigers and his favorite Tiger, Willie Horton. He eventually matriculated to the University of Detroit for his college years where he was a physical education major and was able to enjoy the Dick Vitale era with the Titans and such notable alums (and fellow PE classmates) as Earl Cureton, Terry Duerod, John Long (uncle of Season 1, Episode 22 guest, Grant Long), and Terry Tyler. His time at UD even included an brush with legendary Georgetown University Coach John Thompson.

We also talk about the evolution of coaching, baseball vs. softball, and the caliber of the college powerhouses such as the 3-time defending NCAA Champion University of Oklahoma Sooners.

Finally, Fran shares the touching story how his younger self orchestrated a family trip to the 1971 MLB All-Star Game at Detroit's Tiger Stadium. A game that featured over 25 future Hall of Famers.

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The conversation ranges from Cougars' quarterbacks Drew Bledsoe, Ryan Leaf, and Gardner Minshew to football coaches Babe Hollingberry, Dennis Erickson, Mike Price, and Mike Leach to the Ol' Crimson Booster Club (the group responsible for getting the Wazzu flag on ESPN's College Game since 2003 [that's 290 straight appearances and counting!]) to the pending dissolution of the Pacific 12 Conference as it's been known and what's to come for the "2Pac" to some chat about WSU volleyball and women's soccer programs as well as notable men's basketball alum, Klay Thompson.

We hope you enjoy our time spent vicariously on the Palouse with Ashley.

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This week's conversation with Rich Maison begins normally enough. He shares how his fascination with sports began with a long-ago Detroit Tiger and Pittsburgh Pirate first baseman, Jason Thompson. Nicknamed "Rooftop" during his Detroit days for a pair of prodigious shots in 1977 that he deposited on top of Tiger Stadium, he captivated young Rich in his childhood home. (No footage of either shot is readily available, but enjoy this full Tigers-Blue Jays telecast from June 20, 1978.)

From there Rich takes us on a journey into competitive swimming as well as fishing. Yes, fishing! We learn more than we have to this point about both sports and how Lake St. Clair has some of the best bass fishing in North America. Along the way, Rich shares how technology has changed fishing (especially competitive fishing such as the Bassmaster Elite Series) and the tale of an epic hunting and fishing trip he took several years ago to Kodiak Island, AK.

We eventually return to more mainstream spectator sports when Rich notes the one event he'd like to go back in time to witness in person was the 2006 American League Championship Game between Oakland and Detroit at Comerica Park. It's the game best known for Magglio Ordonez's game-tying 6th inning homer and his walk-off in the bottom of the 9th.

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This week's guest is a college football - nay, a University of Michigan football - fanatic, Mike Hellman. A resident of Macomb, MI, Mike is the third Hellman to join us on Conversations. His son, Jack, appeared on Season 1, Episode 4, and his wife, Jean, was part of the Season 2, Mother's Day Special. Those two are both big Michigan State University fans which makes for interesting Saturdays during football season in the Hellman Home.

Mike recalls the moment he first became a Michigan football fan. It was at his grandmother's home watching the 1975 UM-Ohio State game, won by the Buckeyes, 21-14. He recalls his first time in Michigan Stadium a decade later for Michigan's 20-0 whitewashing of the Bobby Ross-coached Maryland Terrapins.

Mike also waxes poetic about the the 1980s-era Detroit Tigers team he was exposed to featuring players such as Steve Kemp and Aurelio Rodriguez.

We also learn of Mike's love of Larry Bird, the only basketball player (he asserts) who was a College Player of the Year, an NBA Player of the Year, an NBA Coach of the Year, and a NBA Executive of the Year. He also won the NBA Rookie of the Year, NBA Finals MVP, and NBA All-Star Game MVP.

Mike counts among his memorable in-person spectating moments being in the Rose Bowl, January 1, 1998, for Michigan's, 21-16, victory over Washington State.

And among the events he'd love to go back in time to see in person, those were Game 7 of the 1968 World Series and the 1969 UM-OSU game which began the "10-Year War" between Bo Schembechler and Woody Hayes.

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Thurston shares with us memories of Fenway Park, 1972, when his father took him to his first game, and how, the next season, he became a Carl Yastrzemski fan, then the Boston Red Sox leftfielder. He was also, rather randomly, a big fan of New York Mets' pitcher, Tom Seaver, so much so that when he pitched for his Little League teams, Thurston felt like his follow knee needed to get dirty the same way Seaver's did. In 1983, Thurston shares that he and friends were able to see Yastrzemski in person during the waning moments of his final season (1983). Likewise, he and a group of friends were able to see Seaver pitch for Boston in 1986 (this game against Cleveland, based upon Thurston's description).

Along the way we touch on the many heartaches the Red Sox provided Thurston and other Boston fans, their ultimate run of good luck, and his renouncement of his BoSox fandom and transfer of allegiance to the Washington Nationals. It's a delightful tale that includes a Nationals' 2019 World Series win.

A lot of baseball chatter but a great discussion to be sure, complete with passing aircraft interupting the conversation for a moment as Thurston was chatting from his back patio.

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We're joined in this episode by Craig Pringle, an Ohio native who's lived in southern California for over 30 years. During our time with Craig we learn about falling in love with sports - football in particular - while attending Massillon Washington High School where he played football with both Spielman brothers (Rick and Chris) and participated in one of the great high school rivalries in sport: The annual Massillon Washington vs. Canton McKinley football game.

Craig also shares with us how he wound up at Eastern Michigan University and how, of all things, this north central Ohio native became a University of Michigan Wolverines' fan.

And, because Craig is a huge fan of Cleveland's professional sports scene there's plenty to conversations fodder there:

• The Browns' heartache from the 1980s, owner Art Modell moving the team to Baltimore, and the subsequent expansion version of the Browns.
• The Cavaliers winning the NBA Draft Lottery the year LeBron James was in the mix, the near misses with him, his Decision to head to Miami, and the subsequent return and NBA Championship in 2016.
• The then-Indians' flirtation with a World Series Championship in 2016 against the Chicago Cubs.

There's a good bit more ground covered so we hope you settle in and enjoy our time with Craig.

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She counts among her favorites football (college and pro) and tennis, though we learn she's not particularly fond of Novak Djokovic.

Along the way we learn of Carol's visits to the now demolished Olympia Stadium, Tiger Stadium, and Chicago Stadium, not to mention some brushes with past Detroit athletes Mickey Lolich and Bob Probert.

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In this episode we're joined by a work colleague from decades ago at the Detroit Free Press, Derek Meinecke. A product of Northwestern University and Wayne State University Law School, Derek is the son of the much-beloved and late Michigan sportswriter, Corky Meinecke.

During our time with Derek we learn of his early days as a sports fan and how a kid growing up in the Grand Rapids, MI, area would become a fan of the Minnesota Twins, Vancouver Canucks, and the NFL's St. Louis Cardinals. We also discover one of the advantages of being a sports-crazed son of a sportswriter: a subscription to The Sporting News in the days when all the major sports/teams received some ink.

Derek shares sports recollections with Mandy, his wife; daughters, Jane and Kate; and son, Drew, that include just about every sport you can imagine. He also shares with us that unless we've been to one of his mom's tailgates on University of Michigan football game days we've not really been to a tailgate.

And, finally, he recounts a vivid and poignant memory about the time he and his father road-tripped to South Bend, IN, on September 2, 1995, and witnessed Derek's 27-point underdog Wildcats upset ninth-ranked Notre Dame, 17-15. (Check out the wonderful recollections of the game in this Chicago Tribune article.) Derek notes that it was more than just experiencing the game with his father, it was the trip home and the life lessons Corky imparted on his only son that resonate to this day. Six weeks later, Derek says, his father received a cancer diagnosis.

Derek also left us with a challenge (given to him by a friend): If you could go back in time, what are 10 sports events you'd like to experience in person? He admits, one of his 10 would be September 2, 1995, and the roadtrip to South Bend with his dad.

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This week's guest is Pam Forton, a retired math teacher and former para-legal from the Traverse City, MI, area. Pam traces her sports fanaticism back to her grandmother who was a huge Detroit Tigers fan her mother who was an even bigger college basketball fan; Isiah Thomas in particular.

Herself, Pam enjoys it all. She's not opposed to staying up late to watch west coast action, tennis, cycling, you name it. She fell in love with track and field during the 1964 Tokyo and 1968 Mexico City Olympic Games. Those were the first times she ever saw women competing in athletic competitions. She's also a fan of the Winter Olympics and recalls being transfixed by Peggy Fleming's skating prowess and native son Jean-Claude Killey's skiiing during the 1968 Grenoble, France, Games. Pam also shares that her husband, Tom - then in the Army - was stationed in Germany during the 1972 Munich Games and was in the arena for the much-disputed USA-USSR Men's Gold Medal Basketball Game.

The Forton's are frequent sports travelers, especially in the spring and fall when they try to make a weekend out of it (seeing multiple events over the weekend). During the summer, they have the Traverse City Pit Spitters of the Northwoods League (a summer league for college players).

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We're excited to be joined in this week's episode by Craig Calcaterra, author of the 2022 book, Rethinking Fandom: How to Beat the Sports-Industrial Complex at Its Own Game. He also pens a daily Substack newsletter, Cup of Coffee.

During our time with Craig we learn about his sports origin story growing up near Flint, MI, and how he came to become an Alan Trammell fan. A family move to West Virginia led to Craig becoming an Atlanta Braves fan thanks to Superstation TBS.

We also dig into how and when he changed his perspective on being a sports fan, the impetus for his book, and some thoughts on how fans can alter their rooting habits to bring themselves more joy (think being a fair-weather fan, rooting for favorite players, and/or becoming more a casual fan).

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We're joined in this episode by Dave Metter, known in the Twitterverse as @CooperstownDave.

With it being Induction Weekend at the Baseball Hall of Fame in Cooperstown, NY, we felt it was the perfect time to check in with Dave, who first became enamored with the Hall of Fame when one of his favorite players, Vladimir Guerrero Sr. failed to reach the 75% threshhold needed for election his first year on the ballot (2017). He created a Twitter handle, @Vlad4HOF, and worked on educating the electorate nudging the free-swinger over the required vote total.

During our time together, we discuss how someone living in Philadelphia became such a Vlad Sr. fan in the first place (Hint: Harrisburg Senators), his newfound quest to move the needle on 19th Century catcher, Charlie Bennett (see these at #Charlie4HOF on Twitter); his thoughts on the Hall's Era Committees; and Rule B for said Era Committees (Those whose careers entailed involvement in multiple categories will be considered for their overall contribution to the game of Baseball; however, the specific category in which these individuals shall be considered will be determined by the role in which they were most prominent).

To that end, Dave provides his thoughts on Hall of Fame candidacy of the likes of Felipe Alou (player/manager), Lou Piniella (player/manager), and Dr. Frank Jobe.

All in all, a lot of baseball in this episode, but a few basketball recollections are scattered throughout. Keep an ear open for those.

As The Basketball Tournament, a winner-take-all million dollar event, tips off next week, we're delighted to be joined today by Nick Elam, a high school teacher/administrator and sports fan, who had an idea about how to improve the end of basketball games ... and did something about it! The Elam Ending has been utilized by TBT since 2018. The NBA has used the concept for the finale of its All Star Games the past three seasons, the Canadian Elite Basketball has used the format since 2021, and the NBA G-League began using it during the 2022/23 season for overtime.

During our time with Elam, currently faculty member in Ball State University's Department of Educational Leadership, discusses his earliest recollections of being a sports fan and the nearly decade long journey from concept to reality the Elam Ending took him on.

It is, in our estimation, one of our most fascinating episodes to date.

Tony chats it up about his love of the Tigers, Detroit Lions, Detroit Pistons, and the University of South Carolina Gamecocks ... wait, what? Yep, he attended grad school in Columbia, SC, durign the late 1980s. We also discuss the prospects for the Lions this upcoming season (Spoiler: He's a believer), his time Los Angeles, what's on his sports bucket list, and, a late-episode riff on what does and does not qualify as a sport (Spoiler: He's not pro curling as a sport).

Pepicello grew up a Cleveland Indians and Cleveland Browns fan. He was a long-time admirerer of Hall of Fame running back and otherworldly athlete, Jim Brown. Oddly enough, his favorite baseball player growing up was not an Indian, but rather a Red: Ted Kluszewski.

In 1970 he became a fan of the Oakland Raiders, thanks to a wide receiver named Fred Biletnikoff whom he played against in high school.

During our time with Pepicello, we learn about a silent auction bidding war for a signed Jim Brown helmet he unknowingly found himself in against longtime Arizona Cardinals' receiver, Larry Fitzgerald, and the close relationship he forged with former Arizona Diamondback and current St. Louis Cardinal, Paul Goldschmidt.

A past-president of the University of Phoenix, Pepicello now resides in The Valley of the Sun, where enjoys the occasional Diamondbacks' game and traveling with his wife.

Later today, about 10 p.m. Alaska Daylight Saving Time, the annual Midnight Sun Game will be played in Fairbanks. Just as it has every year since 1906 (the result of a bar bet, go figure:-) baseball will be played on the Summer Solstice in Fairbanks without the aid of artificial lighting. This year, the Alaska Goldpanners host the Michigan Monarchs.

In this episode we speak with a pair of long-time observers of the Midnight Sun Game and all things Alaska Baseball League: Bob Eley, former sports writer and sports editor at the Fairbanks Daily News-Miner, and Lew Freedman, former sports writer and sports editor at the Anchorage Daily News. Freedman is also the author of Diamonds in the Rough: Baseball Stories from Alaska.

During our time with Bob and Lew learn a bit about their history as sports fans (Bob saw the L.A. Dodgers play in the L.A. Coliseum as a youngster and Lew, a Bostonian, was an unabashed Ted Williams fan) and the myriad things witnessed on the baseball diamonds in Alaska:

• Setting the infield dirt on fire at Fairbanks' Growden Park to dry it out in order to play the Midnight Sun Game.
• The evolution and devolution of the college summer baseball leagues.
• Name dropping Hall of Famers Randy Johnson, Tom Seaver, and Dave Winfield, all of whom played in the ABL.
• How last year's League MVPs, Aaron Judge and Paul Goldschmidt, were both ABL products.
• How three generations of Boone's (Ray, Bob, and Aaron and Bret) have all been involved in the ABL.

Here's a YouTube of a wobbly recording of the "Alaska Flag" song at the 2007 Midnight Sun Game.

And no game at Growden Park would be complete without a playing of the Beat Farmers' "Happy Boy" which really needs to be heard to be appreciated.

If you're interested in checking out the action, most games are posted on the Goldpanners YouTube channel here a day or two after completion.

Along the way we learn about their first experiences viewing major sports events in person and learn about the impact of cable TV (for Brandon) and video games and YouTube (for Griffin) on how they consume sports and who they follow and root for. Jazz Chisholm Jr. anyone???

We also learn about an epic sports viewing weekend March 23-24, 2019 when the pair watched the Hoosiers beat Arkansas, 63-60, in an NIT game, a few innings of the Hoosier baseball team's 13-1 rout of Iowa, a pair of Indiana State High School Basketball Championship games in Bankers Life Fieldhouse (Classes 3A and 4A), and then a Pacers-Nuggets game the next day; a 124-88 Pacers' rout of the not-yet-NBA Champion Nuggets.

Mercifully, the second take with our guest, Detroit Free Press high school sports writer, Mick McCabe, is better than the first. We were chatting Mick up in Season 1, Episode 18 when technology troubles scuttled the remainder of that episode. Like the sweetheart we know Mick to be, he offered up a do over and that's what you find here today.

Along the way we learn about one of Mick's early jobs working as a soda pop cup filler for Sportservice (the long ago concession vendor at the old Tiger Stadium) and how it afforded him the opportunities to see some of his childhood heroes such as Rocky Colavito and Al Kaline. He even drops knowledge on us about Detroit product and dual sport star, Dave Debusschere (baseball and basketball), and how the Chicago White Sox decision to sign him ultimately led to Denny McLain becoming available for Detroit to claim off waivers a year later.

We also learn about how Mick discovered sportswriting, how the Monsignor at Allen Park Cabrini HS was not an early fan, but then found (salvation?) in helping get Mick admitted to then-Mercy College. He also shares stories about his high school sports writing mentor, Hal "The Swami" Schram.

And as someone who's been on the prep beat for 53 years, Mick's seen a few things. He discusses early sightings of Earvin "Magic" Johnson, Jim Abbott, Tyrone Wheatley, Dena Head, Tonya Edwards, and twins Pamela and Paula McGee.

Among the memorable events he's witnessed up close:

• Saginaw Buena Vista's Chris Coles' 50-foot plus buzzer-beater to defeat defending champions, Flint Beecher, in the 1986 Class B State Championship, 33-32.
• Detroit Cooley's Michael Talley-led state 1987 Class A State Championship, 82-77 in overtime, over Detroit Southwestern who'd beaten the Cardinals 79-44 in the PSL Championship a month earlier.
• Eastern Michigan University's 1987 California Bowl victory, 30-27, over two-plus touchdown favorite, San Jose State.
• Covering the 2012 Summer Olympics in London where he stumbled upon some fun stories about U.S. Women's Water Polo goalie, Betsey Armstrong, U.S. Men's Basketball Player, Kevin Love, and Chinese trampoline gold medalist, Dong Dong.

Somewhat reluctantly, Mick, even tipped his cap to a Detroit-area high school concession stand.

You're able to order Mick's Golden Yearbook here.

On this, our first anniversary of Conversations with Sports Fans, we thought it would be fun to turn the tables on our regular host, Doug Hill, and have him discuss his journey as a sports fan. Handling the hosting duties in this episode is Mike McClary (heard here in S:1, E:9). Mike's no stranger to podcasting, having previously hosted a Detroit Tiger-centric podcast, The Daily Fungo, during the early 2010s.

Please enjoy these long-time friends discussing Doug's journey as a sports fan and do take a moment to listen to episode(s) that started Conversations a year ago: S:1, E:1 - The Overview and Doug's first conversation, with his father, S:1, E:2 - Jerry Hill.

Among the items referenced in this episode:

• Cincinnati's Big Red Machine
• The 1970s Miami Dolphins
• Indiana Hoosiers' Men's Basketball
• 1979 NCAA Men's Basketball Championship Game
• The 1984 Detroit Tigers
• The 2006 Detroit Tigers
• Miguel Cabrera's 506th career home run