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Thinking LSAT

Thinking LSAT

By Nathan Fox and Ben Olson

Ben Olson and Nathan Fox started the Thinking LSAT Podcast to become better LSAT teachers and have some fun. Please 1) subscribe, 2) rate and review, and 3) send us questions: help@thinkinglsat.com. Don't pay for law school!

Learn more at lsatdemon.com
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Ep. 279: Account Lockdown and Other Application Woes

Thinking LSATJan 11, 2021

00:00
01:23:24
Without a Graeme of Evidence (Ep. 447)

Without a Graeme of Evidence (Ep. 447)

Two weeks ago, Ben and Nathan revealed a shadow ban targeting LSAT Demon on Reddit. The sole moderator of the r/LSAT subreddit, Graeme Blake from LSAT Hacks, responded with personal attacks and false accusations of “sockpuppeting.” He then banned LSAT Demon entirely. This week, Nathan and Ben recap the strange saga and question Graeme’s motives for attempting to silence LSAT Demon and its supporters. Later, the guys offer advice to a student who’s missing too many easy questions in Logical Reasoning. They correct a faulty approach to Logic Games. And they examine a possible case of T14 yield protection.


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2:47 - Reddit Ban - The guys break down the events leading to LSAT Demon’s ban on Reddit.

11:59 - Difficult LR Questions - Good news! You don’t need to get all the hard questions right to score well in Logical Reasoning.

17:38 - Missing Easier Questions - Listener Lawrence misses too many easy questions. Nathan and Ben instruct Lawrence to slow down and avoid making sloppy mistakes.

23:30 - Mastering LG - Logic Games are an opportunity, not an obstacle. Ben and Nathan advise an anonymous listener on how to master LG in time for the June LSAT.

29:30 - Waitlists and LOCIs - Listener Lauren has a stellar GPA and LSAT score, yet she was waitlisted at every school in the T14. The guys blame a combination of yield protection and bad luck. They encourage Lauren to write letters of continued interest and to reapply next year.

39:46 - GPA Addendum - Nathan and Ben recommend that listener Morgan write a brief GPA addendum to address some old grades.

44:28 - Admissions Course - Ben and Nathan invite you to join the waitlist for their law school admissions course.

46:26 - Word of the Week - Listener Kris provides a book recommendation for anyone with inchoate negotiation skills.

Mar 25, 202453:15
Are LSAT Accommodations Unfair? (Ep. 446)

Are LSAT Accommodations Unfair? (Ep. 446)

Testing accommodations are meant to give students with documented disabilities a fair shot. But recent LSAT scoring data suggests that the current time-and-a-half minimum might not level the playing field—it might give an unfair advantage to people with accommodations. Ben and Nathan discuss the problematic state of LSAT accommodations and what it means for students. Later, the guys weigh the costs and benefits of taking the test five times. They draft a short character and fitness addendum. And they urge students to avoid the comparison trap.


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1:26 - Aiming for 175 - You don’t get points for answering questions quickly. You get points for answering questions correctly. Nathan and Ben instruct listener Manan to slow down and focus on accuracy.

12:43 - Accommodations - Ben and Nathan probe the history of LSAT accommodations and question the fairness of the current system.

34:43 - Downside to Retaking? - Listener Finn worries that law schools will judge him harshly for taking the LSAT five times. Nathan and Ben assure Finn that law schools only care about his highest score.

40:46 - Character and Fitness Addendum - The guys help an anonymous listener draft a short addendum to address a minor character and fitness issue.

43:43 - GPA Addendum - Ben and Nathan advise listener Emme not to write a GPA addendum that risks victim signaling.

50:27 - Tips from a Departing Demon - LSAT Demon alumna Sierra says: “Don’t get too caught up on the numbers and how everyone else is doing.”

51:47 - Words of the Week - Only when LSAT teachers cease their obscurantism may they find absolution.

Mar 18, 202455:01
About that r/LSAT Shadow Ban (Ep. 445)

About that r/LSAT Shadow Ban (Ep. 445)

Love it or hate it, the r/LSAT subreddit is a popular forum for LSAT news and advice. Unfortunately, LSAT Demon students have been unable to engage fully with this community for almost a year. Their posts and comments about the Demon are secretly banned. Ben and Nathan recount the curious back story of LSAT Demon’s shadow ban on Reddit and ask for listeners’ advice. Later, the guys discuss upcoming changes to LSAT Writing. They share tips on becoming a gladiator of the English language. And they examine why some lawyers might be better off working in fast food.


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1:11 - Reddit Shadow Ban - The guys detail LSAT Demon’s shadow ban on the r/LSAT subreddit. Read more in their blog post and share your thoughts at help@thinkinglsat.com.

14:19 - Changes to LSAT Writing - Big changes are coming to LSAT Writing. Starting July 31, 2024, the section will feature a more open-ended essay prompt that asks writers to defend an original thesis. Ben and Nathan weigh in on the upcoming changes.

20:18 - Improving at English - Lawyers are gladiators of the English language. Nathan and Ben share a few tips on how to improve your reading and writing.

31:22 - Pearls vs. Turds - Despite what some LSAT “experts” say, there are no shortcuts to success in LSAT Reading Comprehension. If you want to improve in RC, you must improve your ability to read.

39:54 - Law vs. Fast Food - Not every lawyer makes big law money. But lawyers at least earn more than fast-food workers, right? Not necessarily.

46:49 - Informational Interviews - Ben and Nathan advise listener Michael on how to solicit and conduct informational interviews with practicing lawyers.

52:07 - Focus on Accuracy - Listener Grace faces challenges in transitioning to the LSAT Demon approach after switching from another prep company. Nathan and Ben encourage Grace to stick with it and to prioritize accuracy over section scores.

56:18 - Tips from a Departing Demon - LSAT Demon student Nick shares a pearl of wisdom: “Don’t tell everyone you know that you are taking the LSAT.”

1:01:14 - Word of the Week - If law schools would put the kibosh on their unfair pricing schemes, Ben and Nathan wouldn’t have to inveigh against them.

Mar 11, 202401:05:56
The LSAT Is Easy (Ep. 444)

The LSAT Is Easy (Ep. 444)

When Ben and Nathan say “the LSAT is easy,” it’s not to suggest that LSAT improvement comes effortlessly. This week, the guys elaborate on their motto. The LSAT becomes easy when you do it the Demon way. Later, the guys discuss strategies for negotiating scholarships with schools that claim not to engage in such discussions. They offer advice to a listener battling fatigue at the end of Reading Comprehension sections. And they urge a well-qualified applicant not to settle for a disappointing outcome this admissions cycle.


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1:18 - The LSAT Is Easy - Departing Demon Tatiana sends a message of support to her peers: “Keep showing up and don’t give up. Ben and Nathan are right—the LSAT is easy if you let it be.”

22:07 - Scholarship Negotiation - Some law schools claim not to negotiate scholarships. But every offer of admission opens the door to negotiation. Asking for more financial support carries no downside.

29:53 - RC Timing - Listener Jess asks how to tackle the fourth passage in Reading Comprehension with limited time on the clock. Ben and Nathan advise her to ignore the clock and to treat the final passage the same as any other.

34:03 - RC Fatigue - LSAT Demon student Cassidy is surprised by her fatigue at the end of Reading Comprehension sections. Nathan and Ben suspect that she’s reading too quickly. They urge her to slow down and focus on understanding.

42:16 - Go Now or Reapply? - Lauren was offered a stipend to attend WashU, but she’s disappointed by her offers from other top law schools. Ben and Nathan encourage Lauren to reapply next year and not to settle for less than she’s worth.

53:54 - Howard Law - Listener Morgan offers an explanation for Howard Law’s big law placement numbers, as discussed in Ep. 442: Don’t Become a Lawyer for the Money.

55:05 - Word of the Week - Thinking LSAT listeners invite opprobrium when they apply to law school without their best LSAT score.

Mar 04, 202458:25
What It Takes to Score 175 (Ep. 443)

What It Takes to Score 175 (Ep. 443)

What does it take to score 170 on the LSAT? A mastery of the English language, sharply honed reasoning skills, and a strong work ethic. But with the increasing trend of scores surpassing 170 in recent years, maybe we should now ask: What does it take to score 175? This week, Nathan and Ben explore the habits and traits of those who excel at the highest levels on the LSAT. The guys also contemplate the future of Logical Reasoning, delve deeper into law schools’ unjust pricing, and consider an unconventional transfer plan.


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8:46 - April LSAT Registration - An anonymous listener seeks guidance on whether to register for the April LSAT. Nathan and Ben are concerned by Anonymous’s relatively small amount of progress over a year of LSAT study. 

21:06 - The Future of LR - Some people have speculated that Logical Reasoning will feature more “formal logic” and formulaic Must Be True questions when the logic games go away. Ben and Nathan don’t envision a drastic change. They point out that most LSAT questions are already Must Be Trues.

33:23 - What It Takes to Score 175 - Top LSAT scorers exhibit diligence, patience, and humility.

49:02 - FAFSA Delay - The Department of Education recently announced a five-month delay in processing the FAFSA. Nathan and Ben lament how loans are labeled “aid,” and they examine more evidence of law schools’ unfair pricing.

1:14:09 - Scholarship Data - Listener Spencer shares data from lsd.law that indicates that some schools’ scholarship decisions are based solely on LSAT and GPA. What’s the takeaway? One LSAT point could save you tens of thousands of dollars.

1:17:43 - Transfer Down? - An anonymous listener considers transferring to a lower-ranked law school for a better scholarship and lower level of academic competition. Ben and Nathan propose an alternative: dropping out entirely.

1:29:00 - Tips from a Departing Demon - LSAT Demon student Rick suggests ditching your timelines and embracing a slow-and-steady approach to LSAT improvement.

1:29:57 - Word of the Week - Listener Kate is no milquetoast.

Feb 26, 202401:34:27
Don't Become a Lawyer for the Money (Ep. 442)

Don't Become a Lawyer for the Money (Ep. 442)

Many prospective lawyers dream of big law salaries. Far fewer achieve them. Ben and Nathan examine the disappointing reality of big law placement at non-elite law schools and insist that money is a terrible reason to pursue a legal career. The guys also warn listeners not to let application accoutrements distract from the LSAT. They reject a backward approach to Logical Reasoning. And they denounce law schools’ unfair pricing practices.


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1:16 - Focus on the LSAT - Listener Tony asks whether to highlight his masters thesis in his law school personal statement. Nathan and Ben tell Tony to bake his cake before he worries about frosting it.

13:51 - Grade Change - Persistence pays off for an anonymous listener in their campaign to change an A- to an A.

17:20 - Pearls vs. Turds - An LSAT Demon student finds a pearl of LSAT wisdom in an RC passage about the memory-altering effects of leading questions.

26:28 - Do LR Backward? - Ben and Nathan advise listener Madison to un-reverse her approach to Logical Reasoning.

31:47 - Big Law Placement - The guys question law schools’ self-reported data on big law placement. Outside of a few top schools, career outcomes for law school graduates are wildly uncertain. Your best bet is to attend a school where your scholarship sets you up to compete at the top of the class.

55:00 - Apply Broadly - An anonymous listener considers an accelerated JD-MBA program at their local university. Nathan and Ben unequivocally reject this option. They encourage Anonymous to apply broadly and to avoid law schools’ cash grabs.

1:10:14 - Don’t Do It for Money - Ben and Nathan urge listener Zeek not to let the prospect of a big paycheck lure him into big law. Chasing money is not a good reason to become a lawyer.

1:17:28 - Tip From a Departing Demon - LSAT Demon student Nathaniel shares his key to LSAT success: “Drill, drill, drill!”

1:18:37 - Word of the Week - Macropterous ostriches flocked to us.

Feb 19, 202401:20:60
Why We Named It LSAT Demon (Ep. 441)

Why We Named It LSAT Demon (Ep. 441)

Ben and Nathan address a frequently asked question: “Why the name LSAT Demon?” The name’s origin aligns with their belief that every LSAT question can be solved with certainty. Later, the guys critique some shortsighted advice for Logical Reasoning. They also explore strategies for negotiating scholarships, and they discuss a rare exception to their advice not to pay for law school.


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2:35 - January LSAT Scores - Listener Josie asks how to bounce back from a disappointing score on the January LSAT. Ben and Nathan pinpoint a problem with Josie’s mindset: too much concern for the clock and the calendar.

16:06 - Laplace’s Demon - The guys reveal the origin of the name LSAT Demon and its relevance to their teaching philosophy.

22:27 - Pearls vs. Turds - How important are question types in Logical Reasoning? Should you skip Parallel Reasoning questions for the sake of time? Nathan and Ben offer their insights.

42:11 - Reviewing Logic Games - Ben and Nathan discuss how to review and learn from mistakes in Logic Games. Hear Demon teachers Matt and Erik share their perspectives in LSAT Demon Daily Ep. 614: How to Review Logic Games.

47:47 - Accepted to Yale - Don’t pay for law school. But does this principle hold true even for Yale? Nathan and Ben weigh the costs and benefits of attending the most prestigious law school in the country.

56:49 - Scholarship Negotiation - The first and most important step of scholarship negotiation is to ask for what you want. As Jonea Gordon explains in Ep. 437, nothing bad comes from doing so.

1:05:56 - Comparing Scholarship Offers - Ben and Nathan help listener Leon pick between competing offers from two Florida law schools.

1:16:54 - Words of the Week - It would be impolitic to delimit cost as an ostensibly extraneous factor in picking a law school.

1:25:08 - Book Recommendations - The guys chat about the books they’ve been reading.

1:34:27 - Tips from a Departing Demon - Demon student Erik encourages current students: “Don’t stop, give up, or leave any points on the table.”

Feb 12, 202401:38:09
A Slower Cycle (Maya Russell) (Ep. 440)

A Slower Cycle (Maya Russell) (Ep. 440)

Nathan is joined by Maya Russell, chair of the Pre-Law Advisor National Council, for an insightful discussion of the law school admissions process. Maya provides expert analysis of the rapidly changing admissions landscape, highlights common mistakes made by law school applicants, and outlines key questions to ask when deciding where to apply and attend.


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3:09 - Application Timing - In a recent study focusing on application timing, AccessLex found that historically underrepresented applicants who apply early tend to have better admissions chances than those who apply late. Nathan and Ben acknowledge the findings, but they’re unconvinced by AccessLex’s methodology and recommendations. The guys express their concerns about the study and about law school pipeline programs in general.

25:08 - Maya Russell, Pre-Law Advisor - Maya Russell is a pre-law advisor at Furman University and chair of the Pre-Law Advisor National Council (PLANC). Maya recounts her path to becoming a pre-law advisor and describes what the job entails.

45:06 - Law School Scholarships - Maya and Nathan agree that law school is overpriced and that applicants should seek the best merit scholarships available to them. They discuss how successful applicants prioritize GPA before LSAT, apply broadly, and evaluate the potential return on their investment before committing to a law school.

1:11:02 - Admissions Advice - Maya encourages patience during this unusually slow application cycle. She attributes the slowdown primarily to last year’s Supreme Court ruling on affirmative action and suggests that law schools are testing new ways to attract and admit a diverse pool of applicants. Maya and Nathan consider the long-term impact of the SCOTUS decision. And they caution applicants not to be in such a rush to attend law school.

1:39:48 - LSAT Alternatives - Some law schools now accept LSAT alternatives, like the GRE or JD-Next. Maya believes that most applicants should stick with the LSAT.

1:46:43 - LSAT Writing - Maya explains why law schools may start paying closer attention to applicants’ LSAT Writing samples. She warns listeners to read applications carefully for restrictions on the use of AI.

1:50:56 - Medical Disclosures - Maya urges applicants to keep their medical histories out of their personal statements.

2:00:15 - Words of the Week - LSAT advice is often deranged. Ben and Nathan aim to elucidate the test.

Feb 05, 202402:09:57
Too Late for Law School? (Ep. 439)

Too Late for Law School? (Ep. 439)

Law school doesn’t have an age limit. But older applicants be warned: law isn’t a fallback career. This week, Nathan and Ben beseech listeners of all ages to examine their motivations for pursuing law school. Later, the guys consider some students’ contention that Logic Games on the January LSAT were unusually difficult. They share tips for LSAT study groups. And they clear up a misunderstanding regarding LSAC’s GPA calculations.


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2:18 - JD Advantage Jobs - In Episode 437, data privacy expert Jonea Gordon described how her legal background contributed to her success in jobs that don’t require a JD. Ben and Nathan nonetheless maintain that law school should be pursued by those who intend to practice law.

16:10 - Too Old for Law School? - Listener Melissa wants to make a career change, but she worries that she’s too old for law school. Nathan and Ben assure Melissa that her age isn’t an obstacle. They also counsel her not to treat law as a fallback career.

21:41 - January LSAT Logic Games - Some test takers thought that the January LSAT featured especially difficult Logic Games. Nathan and Ben aren’t surprised—they hear this complaint after almost every LSAT.

25:49 - Study Groups - Ben and Nathan advise LSAT Demon student Cameren on how to structure his study group sessions.

29:18 - Grade Change - The guys correct some misinformation regarding LSAC’s grading policy for Pass/Fail grades. In most cases, a “P” on an applicant’s transcript will not be included in LSAC’s GPA calculation.

37:49 - Tips from a Departing Demon - Departing LSAT Demon student Tara shares her advice for other LSAT students: study so much!

39:09 - Words of the Week - Ice on Mars sublimes to vapor. To this we ascribe the planet’s lack of liquid water.

Jan 29, 202443:47
What's My LSAT Potential? (Ep. 438)

What's My LSAT Potential? (Ep. 438)

The LSAT is a test of reasoning skills. But the best lawyers often go beyond reason—they set unreasonable goals and work unreasonable hours to attain them. If you have dreams of attending a top law school, you should embrace a similar level of commitment. This week, Ben and Nathan discuss how your work ethic impacts your success on the LSAT, in law school, and throughout your legal career. Later, the guys share tips for managing test anxiety. They critique a misguided approach to studying Logic Games. And they contemplate the biggest risks that the world faces in 2024.


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1:41 - What’s My LSAT Potential? - Don’t limit yourself to a “reasonable” score increase. Your LSAT potential comes down to how hard you’re willing to work.

19:15 - Test Anxiety - The guys discuss strategies for overcoming test-day nerves and treating the official test like an ordinary practice test.

29:21 - Overconfident and Underprepared - Listener Erica was surprised by how much she struggled with the Logic Games on the January LSAT. Ben and Nathan find an obvious flaw in Erica’s study routine: too much reading and not enough real practice.

36:36 - Survey Flaws - Nathan and Ben discuss the results of a survey about the top global risks in 2024. The guys list some of the most common survey flaws that appear on the LSAT.

1:00:36 - Worlds - Nathan quotes the No Stupid Questions podcast to describe LSAT Demon’s worlds-first approach to Logic Games: “mutually exclusive and collectively exhaustive.”

1:13:50 - Optional Essays - Ben and Nathan explain why “optional” essays  should be treated as mandatory if you want your application to shine.

1:16:24 - First-Gen Students - Listener Madison asks whether first-generation students have any advantage in law school admissions.

1:18:22 - LSAT Writing - Nathan and Ben break down how to approach the LSAT Writing section.

1:23:35 - Words of the Week - The guys aren’t being cantankerous, they’re just trying to galvanize you.

Jan 22, 202401:31:54
From Law to Tech (Jonea Gordon) (Ep. 437)

From Law to Tech (Jonea Gordon) (Ep. 437)

Jonea Gordon left her job as a lawyer and quadrupled her salary. She’s now a data privacy expert who has worked with some of the biggest tech companies in the world on issues like artificial intelligence and augmented reality. Jonea joins Ben to share the story of her career, offer advice on networking and negotiation, and explain why her experience as a litigator remains invaluable to her work in tech.


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1:56 - Expectations vs. Reality in Legal Practice - Jonea recounts her path to legal practice and her discovery that litigation wasn’t right for her.

23:44 - From Law to Tech - Jonea prefers her work in data privacy to the toil of legal practice. But she doesn’t regret becoming an attorney. Jonea describes how the skills she honed as a litigator remain crucial to her work in tech.

33:51 - Networking - Jonea shares simple networking techniques that she used to advance and transform her career.

44:38 - Negotiation - Jonea encourages listeners to overcome their fear of negotiation and to advocate for themselves. As her career shows, good things happen to those who ask for what they want.

53:32 - Connect with Jonea - Jonea invites listeners to connect with her on her website or on social media @joneagordon_esq.

54:58 - LSAT Experimental Sections - Nathan and Ben discuss why test takers are unlikely to see Logic Games on future experimental sections.

1:07:34 - Words of the Week - Here’s some avuncular advice: beware of anomie in the legal profession.

Jan 15, 202401:18:00
Retake and Reapply (Ep. 436)

Retake and Reapply (Ep. 436)

Many applicants face a dilemma at this point in the admissions cycle: Do they settle for a mediocre LSAT score and uninspiring scholarship offers? Or do they retake the LSAT and reapply next year? To Ben and Nathan, the choice is clear. There’s too much upside and too little downside not to take the long-term approach. Later, the guys explain why common sense trumps formal logic on the LSAT. They speculate that the LSAT will soon increase in difficulty. And they discuss the proper use of law school rankings.


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1:45 - How to Start Studying - After a five-year break from the LSAT, listener Ellen asks how to restart her studies. Nathan and Ben answer simply: begin with one question.

5:26 - Retake and Reapply - Listener Dale believes that he can improve upon his official 166, but he fears that his parents won't support his decision to retake and reapply next cycle. Ben and Nathan recommend patience. The beginning of your legal career is too important to rush.

16:22 - Formal Logic - The guys assure listener Alexis that the LSAT requires no knowledge of formal logic. It just takes common sense. For more, watch LSAT Demon Daily, Ep. 384: Formal Logic.

23:31 - No Gimmicks - An LSAT Demon student seeks time-saving strategies based on trends in correct-answer distribution for certain question types. The problem? Those trends don’t exist.

31:40 - Will the LSAT Get Harder? - Nathan and Ben suspect that the LSAT may soon become more difficult—but not because the Logic Games are going away.

38:05 - Law School Rankings - Ben and Nathan suggest that applicants use law school rankings to help build a list of target schools, not to decide which school to attend.

49:00 - Success Story - A proud dad thanks the LSAT Demon team for helping his family save $250,000.

53:23 - Don’t Go to Law School Unless… - The guys congratulate LSAT Demon student Alex for deciding not to go to law school.

58:44 - Words of the Week - Those who recoil from new words may find their antipathy to vocabulary inimical to the inauguration of a legal career.

Jan 08, 202401:09:38
New Year's LSAT Resolutions (Ep. 435)

New Year's LSAT Resolutions (Ep. 435)

Happy New Year! Nathan and Ben kick off 2024 with New Year’s resolutions for LSAT students. The guys also discuss whether nontraditional applicants face a disadvantage in law school admissions. They endorse a slow-and-steady approach to Reading Comprehension. And they assess the LSAT timelines of listeners who may miss out on Logic Games.


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1:02 - New Year’s Resolutions - The guys propose some New Year’s resolutions for LSAT students.

14:28 - Nontraditional Applicants - “Nontraditional” applicants aren’t disadvantaged in law school admissions. Law schools often prefer students with work experience. 

23:11 - Test Schedule - Listener Timothy wants to take the LSAT before the Logic Games go away, but his practice test scores fall short of what he needs for the T14. Ben and Nathan urge Timothy not to rush his timeline.

28:59 - Pearls vs. Turds - Listener Sneha was told to attempt only the first three passages in Reading Comprehension. Can ignoring the final passage lead to better scores in RC?

44:08 - Conservatives in Law School - An anonymous listener worries that they’ll be treated differently in law school because of their conservative political views. But law schools aren’t as liberal as people think.

54:24 - Accommodations

Listener Jackson was granted extra time for the LSAT. But with the accommodation has come an unexpected challenge: a temptation to overthink certain questions. Nathan and Ben counsel Jackson to ease up on his perfectionism and to practice gratitude for his LSAT achievements.

1:00:15 - Letters of Recommendation - Nathan and Ben help listener Finn decide who to ask for a professional letter of recommendation.

1:04:05 - LG or No LG? - Logic Games is currently Susan’s weakest section—should she wait to take the LSAT without games? Ben and Nathan encourage Susan not to give up on LG.

1:08:51 - Words of the Week - Eschew unnecessarily redundant tautologies.

Jan 01, 202401:20:18
Breaking Out of a Score Plateau (Ep. 434)

Breaking Out of a Score Plateau (Ep. 434)

Ben and Nathan address a listener’s concerns about his stagnant test scores, providing guidance for improvement. Also on the show, the guys share insights on how to inform impatient family members about the reality of law school admissions. They express support for online law school. And they discuss the decades-long trend of undergraduate GPA inflation.

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2:02 - Family Pressure - An anonymous listener is patiently pursuing a 170+ LSAT score, but their parents are hounding them to apply this cycle. Nathan and Ben suggest LSAT Demon Parent’s Night among other ways to educate family members about the law school admissions game.

6:04 - An Hour a Day - After improving his score by 20 points, listener Nate feels that he has reached a plateau. Ben and Nathan challenge Nate to remain consistent in his study schedule and to prioritize reviewing his mistakes.

18:55 - Online Law School - Nathan and Ben are proponents of online education—including online law school. They advise applicants to do their due diligence in selecting a school that’s right for their career goals.

25:13 - Sufficient Assumptions - The guys explain how to reliably predict answers to Sufficient Assumption questions in Logical Reasoning.

31:11 - RC Timing - Improving in Reading Comprehension isn’t a matter of timing, it’s a matter of understanding. Ben and Nathan urge a student to slow down and focus on accuracy.

34:40 - Grade Inflation - Law schools’ GPA medians ticked upward during the pandemic. Will they come back down? The guys review a recent New York Times article on undergraduate grade inflation and find no reason to expect that the trend will change.

42:41 - Applying Broadly - Nathan and Ben advise listener Brad on how to build a broad list of target schools with help from the LSAT Demon Scholarship Estimator.

46:13 - Vocabulary Corner - Be rapacious for a better LSAT score.

Dec 25, 202351:11
Yield Protection: Fact or Fiction? (Ep. 433)

Yield Protection: Fact or Fiction? (Ep. 433)

Feared by some, loathed by others, “yield protection” remains a steadfast reality in law school admissions. This week, Nathan and Ben discuss why law schools justifiably use yield-protecting strategies in admissions. The guys also share the story of a listener who successfully petitioned their college to expunge a semester of failing grades. They compare law schools’ debt-to-income ratios for recent graduates. And they offer practical tips to a student seeking ways to avoid underperformance on test day.

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2:26 - Word of the Week - Avoid zoonotic diseases like the plague.

5:24 - Appeals - Persistence pays off. Ben and Nathan hear from a listener who convinced their community college to withdraw a semester of failing grades. They also discuss another listener’s successful appeal to LSAC for a fee waiver. The conversation then shifts to considering the chances of an international student procuring an extra test attempt.

18:48 - Debt-to-Income Ratio - In a recent blog post, a Notre Dame law professor compares the median debt-to-income ratios of recent graduates from different law schools. Nathan and Ben explain why the numbers are even more alarming than they first appear.

30:38 - Yield Protection - Ben and Nathan react to—and mostly agree with—Dean Z’s explanation of yield protection. Every facet of the admissions process is part of a negotiation over how much you’ll pay for law school.

56:26 - Scoring Below PTs - LSAT Demon student Katie scored significantly lower than her practice test average on her official test. The guys describe some common causes of underperformance on test day, and they instruct Katie to treat the official LSAT like any other practice test. This topic is featured in LSAT Demon Daily, Ep. 690: Don’t Let Test Anxiety Become an Excuse.

1:02:21 - Senior Year Grades - Yes, K-JDs have to maintain good grades in their senior year of undergrad.

1:05:52 - LOR Timeline - Listener Pat plans to apply to law school in 2025. Nathan and Ben agree that getting a head start on requesting letters of recommendation is a wise move.

Dec 18, 202301:10:33
One Less Law School (Ep. 432)

One Less Law School (Ep. 432)

Another one bites the dust. Ben and Nathan bid adieu to Golden Gate University School of Law, which will end its JD program in May. Unfortunately, eliminating one law school doesn’t fix the problem of having too many law schools. Also on the show, the guys simplify Reading Comprehension for an overthinker. They counsel some downcast listeners on how to bounce back from a disappointing LSAT. And they weigh the admissions value of work experience versus GPA.

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4:07 - Word of the Week - The guys look up a melange of words.

7:08 - Goodbye, Golden Gate - Ben and Nathan react to the news that Golden Gate University will soon discontinue its JD program.

22:40 - Stop Overthinking RC - Nathan and Ben condense Reading Comprehension down to two essential questions: What did the passage say? What’s the author’s main point? The guys instruct a listener to forget question types in RC and treat them all as Must Be Trues.

38:27 - Recovering from a Low Score - Listeners seek guidance on how to bounce back from a disappointing LSAT. The guys discuss a key to overcoming test anxiety.

50:06 - Scholarship Estimator - Listener Shane is perplexed by his results in the LSAT Demon Scholarship Estimator. Ben and Nathan dig into the numbers and assess Shane’s scholarship chances.

54:02 - Work Experience vs. GPA - Listener Donald hopes that his extensive work experience in academia will offset his low undergraduate GPA. Nathan and Ben prepare Donald to apply broadly and to walk away from bad offers.

1:01:09 - Low Score Fears - The guys assure a worried student that law schools really only care about your highest LSAT score.

1:03:27 - Retake a 173? - Listener Alexander is ready to declare victory over the LSAT with a 173, but Nathan and Ben see no downside to retaking. They push Alexander to get greedy.

1:09:35 - Shoutout - LSAT Demon student Kayla thanks Demon teacher Beth for helping her improve her LSAT score by over 25 points. Listen to Beth’s own LSAT success story on LSAT Demon Daily, Ep. 321.

Dec 11, 202301:11:44
Working While in Law School (Ep. 431)

Working While in Law School (Ep. 431)

Law school is famously time-consuming. Many students consider quitting their jobs and relying on student loans for living expenses. In this week’s episode, Ben and Nathan discuss the feasibility of working while attending law school. The guys also help listeners decide when to register for the LSAT, and they shed light on the surprising similarities among differently ranked law schools.

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1:10 - Word of the Week - Mistrust law schools’ machinations.

6:33 - Split Strategy - Nathan and Ben support listener Jackson’s “split strategy” to target official test dates in both the current and next cycle. The guys are confident that Jackson can shore up his performance in Logic Games by the February LSAT.

10:10 - Abandon LG? - LSAT Demon student Alexis has a weakness in Logic Games. Should she abandon LG and focus on preparing for the August 2024 LSAT? In any case, the guys counsel Alexis not to rush into the 2024 application cycle.

15:45 - Working While in Law School - Roughly 85% of part-time students and 40% of full-time students work while attending law school, according to the Law School Survey for Student Engagement. Nathan and Ben believe that law students should have no problem balancing work and school if they set priorities and practice good time management.

48:44 - Don’t Rush Your Retakes - Listener Angela has already taken the LSAT three times, scoring 141 each time. Ben and Nathan urge Angela not to retake until she’s happy with her practice test scores.

53:36 - Legal Research - The guys advise listener Natalie not to put much stock in the “research interests” of law school faculties. They also press Natalie to reconsider whether her career goals demand a JD.

57:45 - Undergrad Prestige - Undergrad prestige is a soft factor in law school admissions. It may matter a little on the margins, but it’s nowhere near as impactful as an applicant’s LSAT score and GPA.

Dec 04, 202301:00:39
Expand Your Vocabulary (Ep. 430)

Expand Your Vocabulary (Ep. 430)

Lawyers are gladiators of the English language. Words are their weapons. So if you’re entering the arena of legal practice, you’d better hone your vocabulary. This week, Ben and Nathan encourage listeners to keep a dictionary handy and to embrace a growth mindset when it comes to their English proficiency. Later, the guys roast some of the internet’s most bizarre LSAT advice. They probe the motives of WashU’s “redacted  review.” And they consider the benefits of taking a gap year before law school.


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0:00 - January LSAT Registration - The January LSAT registration deadline is upon us. Ben and Nathan explain why November test takers should plan to retake in January.

8:32 - Vocabulary - Nathan and Ben explain how to approach unfamiliar words on the LSAT.

21:44 - Word of the Week - Ben and Nathan upbraid LSAT students who don’t make efforts to expand their vocabulary.

27:08 - Pearls vs. Turds - Nathan and Ben are flummoxed by a blog post that advises LSAT students to align their LSAT prep with their future law school specializations.

45:56 - Score Increase Addendum - Some law schools require applicants to write addendums addressing significant LSAT score increases. Nathan and Ben recommend a one-sentence response.

52:12 - WashU “Redacted Review” - Washington University School of Law allows applicants to redact their LSAT or GPA on their applications. What’s the catch? The redacted info is still considered when awarding scholarships. Ben and Nathan view “redacted review” as just another tactic to solicit applications.

1:10:45 - Scholarship Estimator - Year after year, law schools play the same old scholarship game. The LSAT Demon Scholarship Estimator helps applicants play along.

1:17:29 - Gap Years - Should you take a gap year? Probably. Nathan and Ben discuss how taking an extra year to increase your LSAT score can transform you as a law school applicant.

1:24:28 - Shoutouts - LSAT Demon student Tanya thanks teachers Ala and Brandon for helping her on her LSAT journey.

Nov 27, 202301:32:10
Last Call for Logic Games (Ep. 429)

Last Call for Logic Games (Ep. 429)

LSAT students have a limited-time opportunity to conquer Logic Games before they’re gone for good. This week, Nathan and Ben share insights on strategically planning your official LSAT attempts in anticipation of the upcoming changes. The guys also clarify what counts as an “assumption” in Logical Reasoning. They advocate a low-key approach to communicating with admissions offices. And they premiere a new “Word of the Week” segment.


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3:51 - January LSAT Registration - Ben and Nathan give listener Jason their conditional approval to register for the January LSAT despite Jason’s inconsistency in Logical Reasoning and Reading Comprehension. The next four LSAT administrations are golden opportunities for students who have mastered Logic Games.

7:08 - LSAT Swagger - Listener Brennan hesitates to register for an official test despite scoring as high as 177 on practice tests. Nathan and Ben encourage Brennan to show some well-earned LSAT swagger and to stop giving the test too much respect.

13:44 - January LSAT Study Plan - Whether you’re taking the LSAT in a month or in a year, your study plan should remain the same.

22:16 - Assumptions - Nathan and Ben clear up a common misunderstanding about LSAT Logical Reasoning: An “assumption” doesn’t have to be unstated. It’s simply something that the author accepts as true without question.

27:36 - Application Timeline - Ben and Nathan advise listener Madeline to take some pressure off her January LSAT by planning to apply next cycle.

34:00 - Application on Hold - Listener Dylan’s application to Fordham University was recently put on hold. Nathan and Ben counsel Dylan to shift his focus to schools that demonstrate their interest through scholarships offers.

38:53 - Letters of Continued Interest - Ben and Nathan share some advice on how to communicate with law school admissions offices. You don’t need to hire a high-priced consultant to help you draft your emails. Just be brief, polite, and genuine.

46:48 - Retake a 175? - Canadian applicant Alex considers retaking the LSAT after scoring an official 175. The guys see no downside but little upside.

51:46 - Law Schools for JAG - An anonymous applicant seeks advice on how to pick a law school if cost and ranking aren’t a concern. Nathan and Ben highlight the value of attending a law school where you’ll stand out among your peers.

59:02 - Word of the Week - The guys kick off a new weekly segment in which they plumb the meanings of interesting words.

Nov 20, 202301:05:41
Face Your LSAT Fears (Ep. 428)

Face Your LSAT Fears (Ep. 428)

Test day doesn’t always go as planned. From tech problems to tricky logic games, unexpected challenges during an official LSAT attempt can be intimidating for many students. But the best-prepared test takers don’t hide from their fears—they plan for them. Also on this week’s pod, Ben and Nathan discuss why retaking is almost always the correct decision, how students can learn from their mistakes, and what low-GPA applicants can do to bolster their applications.


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1:45 - October LSAT Scores - Nathan and Ben applaud LSAT Demon students’ successes on the October LSAT. The guys encourage anyone who was disappointed with their score to retake.

11:09 - Test Anxiety - Ben and Nathan describe a powerful technique for dealing with test anxiety: anticipate test-day challenges, and plan how you’ll respond.

16:14 - Learning from Mistakes - The goal of review is to learn from your mistakes so that you don’t repeat them. The guys suggest some review questions to ask yourself to help accomplish this goal.

25:26 - “Lived Experience” Essays - Some law schools are now inviting applicants to write “lived experience” essays in place of traditional diversity statements.

30:42 - Low GPA - Nathan and Ben answer a series of listener questions about applying with a low GPA. The guys advise restraint in GPA addendums, and they remind listeners that nothing atones for a low GPA like a high LSAT score.

Nov 13, 202346:31
The First-Gen Disadvantage (Ep. 427)

The First-Gen Disadvantage (Ep. 427)

Law school isn’t a level playing field. First-generation college students face significant disadvantages in law school, as reported by the Law School Survey of Student Engagement. Nathan and Ben discuss the major challenges that await first-gen students—underscoring the importance of not paying for law school. Later, the guys explain their approach to questions that they can’t immediately solve. They urge a geographically limited applicant to expand their list of schools. And they deliberate on a listener’s choice between the LSAT and the GRE.


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2:28 - LR in the Real World - The guys use their Logical Reasoning expertise to criticize a sentimental bumper sticker. Ben reveals why he isn’t a big fan of poetry.

6:58 - First-Gen Students - The Law School Survey of Student Engagement sheds light on the challenges faced by first-generation college students attending law school.

19:46 - Timing - Nathan and Ben instruct an LSAT Demon student to ignore the clock and to answer questions at their own pace. The guys also advise against flagging questions to review later. And they explain when to move on from a question that you haven’t fully solved.

36:42 - Apply Broadly - Ben and Nathan encourage listener Nikki to apply broadly despite her limited geographical flexibility. Nikki can’t make a well-informed decision about law school without gauging her value in the marketplace.

42:26 - Applying with a Criminal Record - People with felony convictions aren’t immediately disqualified from practicing law in most states, but they face an uphill battle and increased scrutiny. The guys refer an anonymous listener to Yale’s page on applying with a criminal record.

47:27 - GRE vs. LSAT - Should listener Sarthak skip the LSAT and apply to law school with his strong GRE scores? Nathan and Ben give Sarthak their blessing—as long as he's ready to turn down bad offers.

57:04 - Gap Semester - The guys see no need for listener Minnie to explain why she took a gap semester in college.

58:23 - Touring Law Schools - Ben and Nathan consider a possible downside to campus visits. Law schools could charge higher prices to applicants who demonstrate a high level of interest in their schools.

Nov 06, 202301:03:54
Should I Keep Studying LG? (Ep. 426)

Should I Keep Studying LG? (Ep. 426)

Logic Games will soon be on their way out, and many LSAT students are now grappling with the decision of whether to study them. Should you invest time in mastering LG, or should you pivot toward preparing for a games-free LSAT? In this week’s discussion, Ben and Nathan advocate a balanced approach that prepares students for any version of the test. Later, the guys provide feedback on personal statement topics, share the key to unlocking perfect RC passages, and weigh the pros and cons of retaking the test.


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3:28 - Should I Keep Studying LG?

With Logic Games leaving the LSAT in August 2024, listener Amanda is unsure whether to continue practicing LG or to shift her focus solely to Logical Reasoning and Reading Comprehension. Nathan and Ben propose a flexible study plan that allows Amanda to keep her options open.

10:59 - Personal Statement Topics

Ben and Nathan provide insights on several listeners’ personal statement topics. One applicant intends to explain a career change. Another wants to address their ADHD diagnosis. A third considers highlighting their ethnicity and cultural heritage.

32:24 - Perfect Passages

Listener Regan rarely scores perfectly on a logic game or RC passage. Nathan and Ben challenge Regan to pick an answer only when they’re certain it’s correct.

36:09 - Eliminating Wrong Answers

If you’re critical of the answer choices, you can eliminate wrong answers without fully explaining why they’re wrong.

40:32 - Parallel Reasoning

Some Parallel Reasoning questions present answer choices that rearrange the premises and the conclusion. Ben and Nathan demonstrate an intuitive approach to solving these questions.

46:34 - Drilling LR Question Types

Students often struggle to distinguish Necessary Assumption questions from Sufficient Assumption questions. Nathan and Ben see value in designating time to drill these and other commonly confused question types.

49:30 - Downside to Retaking?

Nolan worries that law schools might view him unfavorably if he retakes the LSAT and gets a lower score. Ben and Nathan assure Nolan that any potential downside of retaking is negligible, and the potential rewards could be game-changing.

Oct 30, 202354:36
Goodbye, Logic Games (Ep. 425)

Goodbye, Logic Games (Ep. 425)

The era of LSAT logic games is coming to a close. Beginning in August 2024, the exam’s Analytical Reasoning section will be removed, making room for a second section of Logical Reasoning. Ben and Nathan share their take on the news and offer advice to present and future LSAT students. Later, the guys cast doubt on income-driven loan repayment programs. They urge listeners to see the LSAT as a stepping stone, not a stumbling block. And they assess the admissions prospects of low-GPA splitters.

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1:28 - Logic Games Going Away

Nathan and Ben lament LG’s imminent demise.

20:37 - Pearls vs. Turds

Should listener Taylor attend an overpriced law school and trust a federal income-driven repayment program to help pay off their debt? Ben and Nathan caution Taylor to steer clear of loan forgiveness traps.

26:04 - LSAT Pressure

An anonymous listener struggles with burnout and anxiety. Nathan and Ben counsel Anonymous to accept a long-term LSAT study plan that doesn’t put life on hold.

39:50 - Return to Fundamentals

Despite recent success in their prep, an anonymous LSAT Demon student has reverted to some bad habits. Ben and Nathan recommend taking some time off from the LSAT and returning to fundamentals.

59:00 - Appealing to Retake

Listener TH shares the story of how they successfully appealed to take the LSAT a seventh time.

1:06:13 - Applying to HYS

An anonymous listener considers applying to a few elite law schools this year, then applying more broadly next cycle if necessary. Nathan and Ben worry that this plan could shut the door on scholarships from other excellent schools.

1:10:40 - GPA Questions

The guys address a series of questions from listeners with low undergraduate GPAs. Crushing the LSAT won’t erase an applicant’s low GPA, but it’s their best shot at tipping the scales in their favor.

Oct 23, 202301:22:11
The Biggest Myth about LSAT Improvement (Ep. 424)

The Biggest Myth about LSAT Improvement (Ep. 424)

Law schools thirsty for applicants may tell you that people rarely improve their LSAT score by more than a few points. This week, Ben and Nathan unpack the motivation behind this pernicious myth. Law schools don’t want you to improve your LSAT. They want your application now. Later, the guys discredit the impact of stamina on LSAT performance. They encourage listeners not to write addendums that draw attention to their weaknesses. And they consider the extent to which law school rankings matter outside of the T14.

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3:57 - Law School Transparency - Nathan and Ben react to news that the U.S. Department of Education will soon require law schools to disclose more information about student debt and career outcomes.

10:42 - Patience Pays Off - Don’t rush to apply this cycle. Patient applicants can make life-changing improvements to their LSAT scores. Ben and Nathan also warn listener Jacob that law school isn’t a business investment—it’s a box to check en route to becoming a lawyer.

29:10 - Unlocking LG - The guys ponder what’s keeping LSAT Demon student Aidan from unlocking perfect scores in LG. They preach accuracy over speed and suggest that Aidan stop trying to finish all four games in a section.

34:03 - Premise Indicators - Ben and Nathan explain how words like “for” and “because” indicate premises.

36:52 - Strengthen and Weaken - The guys use a football analogy to illustrate different approaches to strengthening or weakening an argument.

42:22 - Stamina - Listener Jewel blames her lack of stamina for lower scores in the later sections of practice tests. Nathan and Ben fear that Jewel is engaging in a self-fulfilling prophecy.

48:30 - GPA Addendum - An anonymous listener asks whether to address a past substance abuse problem that negatively affected their undergraduate grades. Ben and Nathan advise Anonymous to highlight recent career accomplishments instead.

55:52 - Résumé Addendum - The guys encourage listener Sydney to refrain from writing an addendum that draws attention to a gap in their résumé.

58:24 - Do Rankings Matter? - Listener Chris wonders whether ranking matters outside of the T14. Nathan and Ben reiterate their 2x rule for law school rankings: When comparing one school to another, you shouldn’t consider their rankings unless they differ by twice as much or more.

Oct 16, 202301:07:45
LSAT Work-Life Balance (Ep. 423)

LSAT Work-Life Balance (Ep. 423)

One high-quality hour of study per day is all you need to beat the LSAT. Still, many students struggle to commit. This week, Nathan and Ben prompt listeners to prioritize and make time for the LSAT. Later, the guys question whether undergraduate GPA inflation is making law school admissions more competitive. They examine scholarships for in-state applicants. And they break down how to approach an LSAT question when all the answer choices seem terrible.

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2:28 - September LSAT Scores - Ben and Nathan give props to LSAT Demon students who crushed the September LSAT.

12:30 - Two Practice Tests per Day? - Nathan and Ben question whether an anonymous listener’s extreme study schedule produces a placebo effect.

21:30 - Testing Center Procedures - Listener Serena shares news that in-person test takers may not use their own writing instruments. All scratch paper and pencils will be provided by Prometric. What to expect at a Prometric testing center

25:02 - Work-Life Balance - Listener Imani struggles to find time to study after a demanding day at work. The guys advise Imani to reconsider her priorities.

34:22 - GPA Inflation - Ben and Nathan assess Daisy's concerns about GPA inflation at top law schools. They recommend against writing a GPA addendum.

44:52 - Low GPA Admissions Chances - Nathan and Ben assure listener Andres that a good LSAT score could earn him scholarship offers from regional law schools despite his low GPA.

49:57 - In-State Disadvantage - Evidence and common sense suggest that law schools give bigger scholarships to out-of-state applicants.

54:31 - Picking the Least Bad Answer - Listener Sara asks how to find the correct answer when all options seem bad. Ben and Nathan push Sara to understand precisely what differentiates the answer choices.

Oct 09, 202301:04:33
Law Schools Want You to Want Them (Ep. 422)

Law Schools Want You to Want Them (Ep. 422)

Law school admissions is a competitive game, and schools are wary to admit applicants who are likely to enroll elsewhere. This week, Ben and Nathan examine a tactic that an admissions office may use to gauge an applicant’s interest in their law school. Later, the guys share some tips for overcoming test day anxiety, they evaluate a strategy for the closing minutes of timed sections, and they dig into the Flaw question type in Logical Reasoning.

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0:58 - Updating a Personal Statement - Why might a law school invite you to rewrite your personal statement? Nathan and Ben suspect that they’re gauging your interest in their school. The guys remind listeners that lawyers never shy away from extra work if it helps to make their case.

34:48 - Test Day Anxiety - Ben and Nathan share some tips on how to mitigate test day anxiety.

41:41 - Question Timing - LSAT Demon student Lucy suggests a new feature that would show students how much time they spent on each question of a timed section. Nathan and Ben are open to the idea but doubt that such a feature would be as helpful as Lucy thinks.

44:30 - Last Five Minutes - Listener Hanna sees value in another prep company’s “five-minute plan” for when time is running low. Ben and Nathan don’t want a five-minute plan to distract Hanna from her 35-minute plan.

52:11 - Apply Now or After October? - An anonymous listener considers withdrawing from the October LSAT to apply earlier in the cycle. Nathan and Ben offer an alternative: apply next cycle with a better LSAT score.

1:00:38 - Flaw Questions - Ben and Nathan break down two of the most common phrasings for answer choices on Flaw questions.

1:13:51 - Plug and Chug - Nathan and Ben discuss why solving Logic Games is never an either-or decision between opposing methods. Everyone will discover their own best approach, which is often a blend of worlds and “plug and chug.”

1:18:48 - Personal Statement Topic - Ben and Nathan encourage an anonymous listener to focus their personal statement on career successes rather than an early-career layoff.

1:22:32 - Scholarship Estimator - Nathan and Ben explain some of the methodology behind the LSAT Demon Scholarship Estimator.

Oct 02, 202301:29:28
Behind the Bench (Judge Nazarian) (Ep. 421)

Behind the Bench (Judge Nazarian) (Ep. 421)

Judge Douglas R. M. Nazarian has served on the Appellate Court of Maryland since 2013. He joins Ben and Nathan to share his journey to the bench and to pull back the curtain on the work of an appellate court judge. He also discusses the mission of the Legal Accountability Project, the qualities he looks for in a judicial clerk, and factors to consider when deciding where to attend law school.

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2:41 - Becoming a Judge - Judge Nazarian recounts the hard work, politicking, and luck involved in his multi-year journey to become an appellate court judge.

23:56 - How Decisions Are Made - Judge Nazarian describes the role of appellate courts. He explains why appeals aren’t simply “do-overs” and how lawsuits are shaped by individual discretion and the rules of evidence.

40:37 - Judicial Clerkships - Judge Nazarian discusses the Legal Accountability Project’s mission to bring greater transparency to the judiciary and more diversity to judicial clerkship hires. He also lists the qualities he looks for when hiring clerks and details the role that clerks play in crafting judicial decisions. Listen to Episode 418 for more on the Legal Accountability Project and judicial clerkships.

59:18 - Choosing a Law School - Judge Nazarian shares his advice for choosing the right law school. He deemphasizes rankings and assures listeners that where they go to law school won’t fully determine their career outcomes.

Sep 25, 202301:18:26
Legal Burnout (Ep. 420)

Legal Burnout (Ep. 420)

Kate Bridal and Josey Hoff, hosts of The Legal Burnouts podcast, join Ben and Nathan to discuss why burnout is such a common problem for legal professionals. They advise future lawyers on how to plan for a healthy, sustainable career.

Follow Kate @bridalpartyof5 on Instagram and TikTok, and follow Josey @jh_thelegalburnouts on Instagram.

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1:47 - Legal Burnout - Josey and Kate share their stories of burnout and warn listeners about the realities of legal practice. Toxic law firm culture, zero work-life balance, pervasive mental health and drug problems, and student loan debt all plague legal professionals. Even if you love the law, you may never enjoy working in the law.

26:08 - Nonprofit and Public Interest Work - Kate and Josey describe the emotional tolls of working for nonprofits in the public interest. While many people aspire to do this kind of work, systemic issues make it more challenging and less fruitful than they’d envisioned. Law students often feel constant pressure from their peers and their law schools to work in a traditional law firm—not in the public interest. And practically no one follows through on plans to leave big law for a nonprofit once their student loans are paid off.

1:02:48 - Advice for Students - Josey and Kate advise prospective law students to seek out lawyers and to gain law firm work experience before deciding to go to law school. They also explain the importance of setting personal boundaries in law school and with clients so that the law doesn’t consume your life.

1:07:00 - The Legal Burnouts Podcast - Kate and Josey share the backstory on how they met, why they decided to start their podcast, and who some of their favorite guests have been so far.

Sep 18, 202301:14:52
Loan Forgiveness Traps (Ep. 419)

Loan Forgiveness Traps (Ep. 419)

Loan Repayment Assistance Programs (LRAPs) are often touted as silver bullets of student loan debt relief for low-earning public interest lawyers. But as good as loan forgiveness sounds, LRAPs are riddled with caveats and conditions that may leave some students with far bigger student loan bills than expected. This week, Nathan and Ben present a list of questions that any LRAP hopeful should ask. They conclude that an upfront scholarship should always be preferred over dependence on loan forgiveness.

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1:12 - Real-Life LR Flaw - The guys crack up over some car shopping advice that reads like a flawed argument from LSAT Logical Reasoning.

3:39 - LSAT Writing - Listener Dastin provides an update on the functionality of the LSAT Writing interface. You can use the cut, copy, and paste commands while writing your official submission, but not while taking notes in the “digital scratch paper.”

5:45 - New Test Dates - Additional test dates have been added to the October 2023 and November 2023 administrations of the LSAT. Sessions have been added on October 15 and 16 as well as November 8 and 9.

7:19 - August LSAT Shout-Outs - Ben and Nathan give props to LSAT Demon students who crushed the August LSAT. The guys implore listeners not to settle for a lower score than they’re capable of.

19:50 - August LSAT Disappointments - Not everybody who took the August LSAT was happy with their score. Nathan and Ben address some common reasons for underperformance on test day and share advice on how to avoid these pitfalls in the future. They also counsel patience to anyone who feels rushed to apply with a less-than-great LSAT score.

33:31 - Diminishing Returns on Retakes - How high do you have to score before retaking no longer makes sense? It depends on where you plan to apply.

36:35 - LSAT First, Apply Later - Nathan and Ben recap an admissions event that dished out some questionable advice for law school applicants.

54:57 - Loan Repayment Assistance Programs - A friend of LSAT Demon and current student at Yale Law proposes some questions to ask before committing to a top school’s Loan Repayment Assistance Program (LRAP). These programs may sound appealing, but they’re often far less helpful than you’d think.

Sep 11, 202301:26:13
Demystifying Judicial Clerkships (Aliza Shatzman) (Ep. 418)

Demystifying Judicial Clerkships (Aliza Shatzman) (Ep. 418)

Ben and Nathan are joined by Aliza Shatzman, founder of the Legal Accountability Project. Aliza describes the project’s mission to bring greater transparency to judicial clerkships and to promote positive clerkship experiences. She and the guys discuss why law schools sometimes obscure the truth about judicial clerkships, how the Legal Accountability Project will democratize information regarding clerkships, and what future law students can do now to prepare for clerking.

You can find Aliza on LinkedIn and Twitter @AlizaShatzman. Follow the Legal Accountability Project on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter @The_LAP_

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1:12 - The Legal Accountability Project - Special guest Aliza Shatzman recounts how the harassment and discrimination she faced as a judicial clerk led her to create the Legal Accountability Project. She advocates greater transparency and workplace protections for judicial clerkships. Read Aliza’s testimony before the House Judiciary Subcommittee on Courts, Intellectual Property, and the Internet.

11:51 - Clerkships Database - Aliza introduces the Legal Accountability Project’s Clerkships Database, which aims to democratize information about judges and serves as a “Yelp for clerkships.” Aliza describes how she’s working to gain the support of judges and law schools.

36:19 - Advice for Future Law Students - Aliza offers advice to future law students who may want to pursue judicial clerkships: Start networking with judges and professors early, apply broadly, and don’t assume that your law school’s guidance is sound. Aliza also explains why federal clerkships aren’t always better than state clerkships.

Sep 04, 202351:53
Are You Ready to Take the LSAT? (Ep. 417)

Are You Ready to Take the LSAT? (Ep. 417)

With the deadline to register for the October LSAT only days away, Nathan and Ben share some advice to students who are on the fence about registering. Simply put, your recent practice test scores will tell you whether you’re ready to take the test. The guys also consider what a “reasonable” price for law school would be, discuss how best to negotiate law school scholarships, and uncover a pearl of wisdom regarding Main Point questions in RC.

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2:20 - October LSAT Registration - Nathan and Ben counsel LSAT Demon student Nafosat on whether she’s ready to register for the October LSAT.

7:25 - U. Chicago Settlement - Ben and Nathan comment on a recent Reuters article about alleged price fixing by elite U.S. colleges and universities. The guys remind applicants that law schools are in it for the money.

14:24 - Don’t Pay for Prestige - An anonymous listener asks whether it’s reasonable to pay $40k annual tuition to attend an elite law school. Nathan and Ben discourage listeners from paying for “prestige.”

20:18 - Negotiating Scholarships -

Listener Perrin asks how to negotiate law school scholarships. Ben and Nathan recommend applying broadly to discover your value in the marketplace, then using better offers as bargaining chips.

LSAT Demon Daily, Ep. 163: How to Negotiate Law School Scholarships

24:51 - Saving Practice Tests - Ben and Nathan assure students that there’s no need to save newer practice tests for later.

25:32 - Pearls vs. Turds - LSAT Demon team member Elizabeth suggests a fun way to judge Main Point answer choices in Reading Comprehension.

28:51 - Personal Statement Topic - “I’m boring,” laments an anonymous LSAT Demon student struggling to pick a personal statement topic. Nathan and Ben encourage Anonymous to write about a work experience that showcases their work ethic and problem-solving skills.

32:22 - Focus on Accuracy - Listener Mason feels discouraged because he’s still scoring -10 in Logical Reasoning. Ben and Nathan instruct Mason to slow down and focus on accuracy.

35:43 - Test Limit Exemptions - When requesting an exception to LSAC’s limits on repeating the LSAT, it’s not enough to cite “underperformance” on official tests. Nathan and Ben consider the sorts of extenuating circumstances that might qualify for an exemption from the five-test limit.

Aug 28, 202344:32
Legal Writing and AI (Ross Guberman) (Ep. 416)

Legal Writing and AI (Ross Guberman) (Ep. 416)

Ross Guberman is one of the world’s top legal writing experts. He’s the author of Point Made: How to Write Like the Nation’s Top Advocates, and Point Taken: How to Write Like the World’s Greatest Judges. His newest project, BriefCatch, is an AI-powered legal writing tool that offers real-time editing suggestions on legal documents. Ross joins Ben and Nathan to discuss law school, legal writing, and the evolving role of AI in the legal profession.

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0:45 - August LSAT - Ben and Nathan address the technical difficulties that arose during the August LSAT. They encourage test takers to embrace such challenges rather than crumple under the stress.

9:33 - LSAT Demon Discounts - LSAC fee waiver recipients can get four months of LSAT Demon Basic for only $38, or 20% off any paid plan. Visit lsatdemon.com/plans or email help@lsatdemon.com to learn more.

13:07 - LSAT Demon Discord - LSAT Demon subscribers can join the LSAT Demon Discord to connect with teachers and fellow students.

13:31 - Updates to LSAT Writing - LSAT Writing no longer allows the use of physical scratch paper. Test takers will instead have “digital scratch paper” available in the testing interface. Read more about LSAT Writing’s requirements and prohibited items here.

16:49 - Introducing Ross Guberman - Legal writing expert Ross Guberman reflects on his career as a lawyer and legal writing consultant.

30:21 - The Value of Law School - Ross, Nathan, and Ben criticize law schools for inadequately preparing students to pass the bar and find legal work.

46:22 - Great Legal Writing - Ross describes how his experience conducting writing workshops for judges and lawyers led to the creation of BriefCatch, an AI-powered tool that aims to standardize legal writing.

59:59 - ChatGPT - Ross and Ben discuss how lawyers are currently using AI tools like ChatGPT and what sort of legal work such tools could automate in the future.

Aug 21, 202301:11:35
Diversity in Law School Admissions (Sydney Montgomery) (Ep. 415)

Diversity in Law School Admissions (Sydney Montgomery) (Ep. 415)

Sydney Montgomery is the Executive Director and Founder of Barrier Breakers, a nonprofit that aims to increase access to higher education for BIPOC and other marginalized students. Sydney returns to Thinking LSAT to share her insights into what the Supreme Court’s ruling on affirmative action means for applicants of color. She and the guys also discuss perils of student loan debt and Sydney’s work to help applicants secure their best possible scholarship offers.

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0:00 - Introducing Sydney Montgomery - Sydney Montgomery introduces her edtech software company, Outline It, Inc., which helps students organize and outline their writing projects. She then speaks about her admissions consulting work through Barrier Breakers and S. Montgomery Admissions Consulting. Sydney insists that anyone pursuing law school answer two questions: Why law school? And why now?

17:21 - Supreme Court Decision - Sydney reacts to the U.S. Supreme Court’s decision to end affirmative action in college admissions. She believes that the decision will lead to much confusion in law school admissions and increase the burden on applicants of color. She maintains, however, that the elements of a strong application have not changed.

29:37 - Student Loan Debt - Sydney acknowledges that graduate students of color have about twice as much student loan debt as their white counterparts. Barrier Breakers aims to help applicants and students make sound financial decisions at every stage in their journey. Law school should be an opportunity to break cycles of generational poverty and debt—not to create more.

57:48 - Scholarships - Sydney encourages applicants to apply broadly to increase their chances of receiving excellent scholarship offers. She also steers applicants away from conditional scholarships, which Nathan and Ben dub “scams.” Sydney and the guys agree that the best thing for many applicants to do is postpone their applications and work on increasing their LSAT scores.

Aug 14, 202301:14:51
Big Bad Law (Cece Xie) (Ep. 414)

Big Bad Law (Cece Xie) (Ep. 414)

Cece Xie is a lawyer, writer, and content creator who became wildly popular on social media while working as an associate at a big law firm. She joins Ben & Nathan to talk about her upcoming book. They discuss why law schools push students toward big law and what it takes to climb the law firm hierarchy.

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Follow Cece on Substack, YouTube, TikTok, Instagram, and her website.


0:00 - Introducing Cece Xie - Ben and Nathan welcome Cece to the show and ask what she’s been up to after leaving her job in big law last year.

8:22 - Cece’s Book - Cece shares some details about her upcoming book: part memoir, part exposé of big law culture.

17:56 - The Big Law Pipeline - Cece describes the mutualistic relationship between law schools and big law recruiting. She warns listeners that career services offices don't have students’ best interests at heart. And neither do law firms.

27:48 - Thriving in Big Law - The skills that make you a good junior associate won’t help you make partner. Cece explains why business development is crucial to advancing your career in big law.

38:38 - Big Law Compensation - Cece breaks down the reality of big law compensation and explains why it’s less stable than many people think.

42:45 - Making Connections - Knowing the law gets you only so far in big law. Cece shares how a successful lawyer forms strategic connections within the firm’s hierarchy. She encourages listeners to schedule face time with lawyers to explore different practice areas.

55:11 - No More Ctrl+F - Starting with the August test, the LSAT will prohibit the use of keyboard commands, including Ctrl+F. Test takers will now have the option to use a search bar in the test interface. Nathan and Ben still don’t recommend using the search function.

Aug 07, 202358:59
Building Confidence in Reading Comprehension (Ep. 413)

Building Confidence in Reading Comprehension (Ep. 413)

Perfect accuracy on LSAT Reading Comprehension is within your reach. LSAT Demon teacher Chris Murphy joins Nathan to help listeners maximize their potential in RC. Chris and Nathan describe what confidence looks like in RC and why it’s crucial to success. They also praise the shift to online education, consider possible downsides to retaking the LSAT, and assess a Pearls vs. Turds candidate about leaving answer choices open.

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0:00 - August LSAT Pretest Pump-Up - Chris and Nathan invite August test takers to LSAT Demon’s Pretest Pump-Up on August 9. Come meet fellow test takers and get last-minute tips from LSAT Demon teachers. All you need to join is an LSAT Demon Free account.

3:27 - Online Law School - An anonymous listener worries that attending an online law school could hurt their networking opportunities. The guys explain why the opposite might actually be true. Nathan maintains that the future of law school and the legal profession is online.

31:48 - Building Confidence - An anonymous LSAT Demon student struggles to commit to answer choices in Reading Comprehension, frequently double-checking answer choices they’ve already eliminated. Nathan and Chris suggest how Anonymous can find some RC swagger.

47:14 - Perfect Accuracy in RC - Listener Joe has yet to achieve perfect accuracy on RC passages despite slowing down. Chris and Nathan remind Joe that slowing down is not enough. Start predicting answers, and embrace the idea that on Reading Comprehension, they’re all Must Be Trues.

57:12 - Downside to Retaking? - Is there ever a downside to retaking? Some listeners question Nathan and Ben’s recent advice about whether to retake a 174. Nathan reiterates that as long as law schools only care about your highest scores, there’s really only upside to retaking.

1:33:43 - Pearls vs. Turds - Chris and Nathan assess a student’s advice on not eliminating answer choices too quickly.

Jul 31, 202301:42:41
Why We Don't Diagram in LR (Ep. 412)

Why We Don't Diagram in LR (Ep. 412)

Diagramming in Logical Reasoning is time-consuming, confusing, and error-prone. Ben and Nathan advocate an intuitive approach to Logical Reasoning that promotes real understanding and long-term growth. In this week’s episode, the guys warn listeners of the perils of LR diagrams and demonstrate a commonsense alternative. Later, they recommend an ASAP approach to reviewing mistakes, discourage school list disclosures on applications, and advise students not to skip “hard” questions in timed sections.

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1:53 - Meditation - A listener praises LSAT Demon’s guided meditations and reminds fellow students to breathe.

3:31 - Don’t Diagram in LR - “It’s painful, boring, difficult, and confusing.” Nathan and Ben explain why they don’t diagram in Logical Reasoning. They demonstrate a more intuitive approach using an example from PrepTest J.

37:59 - Review Immediately - An anonymous LSAT Demon student struggles to explain their mistakes when reviewing questions they drilled hours earlier. Ben and Nathan insist on reviewing mistakes right away—especially in drilling.

45:24 - Where to Start? - Listener Aidan asks if he should master his strongest section before moving on to the other two. Nathan and Ben instruct Aidan to study all three sections from the start.

50:26 - Disclosing Your School List - Some law schools ask you to disclose the full list of schools to which you’re applying. The guys recommend that applicants leave this question blank if it’s optional. Your answer won’t help you, and it might hurt you.

55:35 - “Stated” Questions in RC - An anonymous Ask Button correspondent bemoans how long it takes them to answer Stated questions in Reading Comprehension. Ben and Nathan diagnose Anonymous’s problem: reading the passage too quickly.

1:08:26 - ChatGPT for Applications - In last week’s episode, LSAC’s Kyle McEntee suggested that some law schools will start asking applicants whether they used AI in the creation of their applications. Listener Fran asks why anyone would disclose this information if the schools can’t determine it on their own. Nathan and Ben discourage using ChatGPT for law school applications in the first place.

1:13:25 - Don’t Skip Questions - Skipping the hard questions isn’t just a bad strategy—it might not even be possible. The guys dismiss question-skipping as an unhelpful gimmick that stymies real progress.

1:18:00 - Soft Factors - Listener Noah asks whether his work experience will give him a leg up on other applicants with similar hard stats. Ben and Nathan advise Noah not to use strong softs as an excuse to slack off on the LSAT.

1:26:04 - Income-Driven Repayment - Listener Justin suggests a new consideration for the guys’ discussion about President Biden’s student loan debt forgiveness plan. Nathan and Ben are unswayed.

Jul 24, 202301:42:29
LSAC's Kyle McEntee (Ep. 411)

LSAC's Kyle McEntee (Ep. 411)

LSAC’s Kyle McEntee rejoins the pod to share info about LSAC’s resources for law school applicants. Kyle and the guys also discuss the recent Supreme Court ruling on affirmative action, the difficulty of fixing the problem of student loan debt, and law schools’ responses to applicants’ use of AI.

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0:57 - Admission Unmasked - Kyle introduces Admission Unmasked, a free program of live events and on-demand learning modules designed to help applicants navigate the law school admission process.

7:27 - Supreme Court Decision - Kyle shares his perspective on how the Supreme Court’s ruling on affirmative action will impact law school admissions: applicants shouldn’t let it affect where they apply.

11:01 - LSAC’s Mission - Kyle discusses LSAC’s mission to advance justice in the legal system and explains why the LSAT is a tool for equity in law school admissions. He points future law students to LSAC’s Ultimate Law School Prep course.

14:10 - Law School Forums - Kyle welcomes listeners to attend an upcoming LSAC Law School Forum. These forums give applicants a chance to meet directly with law school representatives and ask questions.

18:50 - Student Loan Debt - Kyle weighs in on the problem of law schools’ outrageous tuitions and argues that admissions officers share students’ concerns. Nathan and Ben emphasize the need for federal student loan reform—Kyle worries that capping student loans could hurt access and equity in college admissions.

34:09 - AI for Applications - Kyle urges caution to applicants using generative AI tools like ChatGPT. Law schools are still determining their policies regarding AI, and some schools may ask students whether they used AI to prepare their application materials.

45:17 - August LSAT Registration - Kyle provides an update on August LSAT registration. The registration system experienced some early glitches, but all tools are now back online and working.

53:22 - Income-Driven Repayment -

Ben and Nathan react to an article from Reason magazine claiming that President Biden’s new income-driven repayment plan will probably drive tuitions even higher. The guys expound on the perils of debt and warn applicants not to listen to advice that comes directly from law schools.

Freakonomics Radio, Ep. 377: The $1.5 Trillion Question: How to Fix Student-Loan Debt?

Jul 17, 202301:26:13
How to Answer "Except" Questions (Ep. 410)

How to Answer "Except" Questions (Ep. 410)

Beginning with the August LSAT, certain key words like “except” will be presented in lowercase bold rather than ALL CAPS. On this week’s episode, Ben and Nathan react to the change and give a crash course on how to approach these types of questions. The guys also discuss another perspective on affirmative action in college admissions, celebrate LSAT Demon students’ successes on the June LSAT, and implore listeners to turn off the clock while taking timed practice tests.

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1:45 - Affirmative Action - The guys discuss a New York Times opinion piece about the shortcomings of affirmative action for most college students.

25:06 - Changes to “Except” Questions - Nathan and Ben explain why they like the change to the presentation of “except” questions on the LSAT. They then share some tips on how to approach these types of questions.

40:26 - June LSAT Score Release - Listeners share their success stories from the June LSAT.

43:31 - Turn Off the Clock - Listener Ikey blames his inconsistency in RC for his disappointing score on the June LSAT. Ben and Nathan remind Ikey that it’s okay not to finish the section. Ikey should turn off the clock and commit to solving every question that he attempts.

50:31 - Ignore Game Types - Listener Steven’s habit of skipping “circle” games in his prep came back to haunt him on the June LSAT. Nathan and Ben encourage Steven to ignore game types and treat every logic game as a solvable puzzle.

57:58 - Full Rides and Stipends - Listener Parker asks for help assessing whether his local law school awards stipends in addition to full-tuition scholarships. The guys dig into the ABA 509 data, but they implore Parker to apply broadly and not to bank on a great offer from a single school.

1:12:39 - Don’t Skip Questions - Listener Angelica was taught to skip certain games and question types. Ben and Nathan reject this approach. They advise Angelica to answer the questions in order and not to worry about “pacing” strategies.

1:24:51 - Personal Statement Topic - Listener Jane worries that her law firm work experience is too generic to write about in her personal statement. Nathan and Ben assure Jane that “generic” isn’t a problem for law schools, who are in the business of producing Big Law worker bees.

1:31:13 - 3+3 Programs - The guys warn listeners against 3+3 programs that lock you into law school after only three years of undergrad.

1:37:39 - School Visits - Ben and Nathan advise listener Caleb to delay his law school visits until after he’s received his scholarship offers.

1:47:28 - Patent Law - Listener Jay asks whether it’s worth it to take some science classes as a step toward working in patent law. Nathan and Ben suggest that Jay instead find work in a law office to gauge his actual interest in legal practice.

Jul 10, 202301:52:43
Sufficient vs. Necessary (Ep. 409)

Sufficient vs. Necessary (Ep. 409)

Understanding the difference between necessary and sufficient is necessary—but not sufficient—for success on the LSAT. This week, Nathan and Ben illustrate the difference using some morbid examples of their own invention and a less gory one from PrepTest 65. Later, the guys examine a study that suggests that 76% of legal jobs are at risk of automation by AI. They weigh a listener’s chances of reaching the T14 with a 3.0 GPA. And they encourage applicants to treat their personal statement like a Tinder profile.

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4:41 - Sufficient vs. Necessary - Ben and Nathan evaluate an LSAT Demon student’s method of distinguishing sufficient conditions from necessary conditions.

12:13 - Example: Sufficient vs. Necessary - To illustrate sufficient and necessary conditions in action, Nathan and Ben attempt a Logical Reasoning question from PrepTest 65. Try the question for yourself here. Then listen to Ben and Nathan’s explanation.

25:01 - Slow Down to Speed Up - Listener Henry strives to focus on accuracy over speed. But his long-term goal of scoring in the 170s may be sabotaging his approach. The guys encourage Henry to slow down and focus on one question at a time.

33:18 - AI Replacing Lawyers? - Ben and Nathan examine a Yahoo! Finance article about the legal industry’s significant exposure to automation through AI tools like ChatGPT.

38:03 - T14 with a 3.0? - Listener Cassandra wonders whether her URM status could help her into a T14 school despite her mediocre GPA. The guys suspect that it will, but they question the importance of attending a T14 and advise Cassandra to apply broadly.

47:25 - How to Start Studying - Nathan and Ben direct a new student to their One-Hour LSAT study schedule for guidance on how to start studying. They explain why students benefit from taking timed sections in addition to drilling untimed questions from the beginning of their study.

58:10 - Applicants Without GPAs - Ben and Nathan suggest that an applicant’s LSAT score is even more important when that applicant lacks a traditional GPA.

1:01:10 - Create FOMO - The guys advise an anonymous listener to treat their personal statement like a Tinder profile: omit anything negative and stick to the stuff that’ll leave law schools with FOMO.

1:06:20 - Grade Point Median? - Nathan and Ben counsel listener Mike not to use an unconventional statistic in his GPA addendum.

1:11:31 - Student Loans and Tuition Hikes - The guys discuss a Washington Post opinion piece that examines how student loan programs have inflated college tuition.

Jul 03, 202301:14:49
Special Episode: Supreme Court Ends Affirmative Action in College Admissions
Jun 30, 202338:32
How to Find the Main Conclusion in LR (Ep. 408)

How to Find the Main Conclusion in LR (Ep. 408)

To succeed in LSAT Logical Reasoning, you must learn to identify conclusions. On this week’s podcast, Ben and Nathan respond to Ask Button questions from students who struggled to distinguish conclusions from premises. The guys suggest three ways to find the main conclusion of an argument. Later, Ben and Nathan discuss how to apply Reading Comprehension skills to Logical Reasoning. They evaluate some dubious strategies for comparative passages in RC. And they answer a grab bag of admissions-related questions.

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0:56 - Identifying Conclusions and Premises -

Nathan and Ben demonstrate how to identify argument parts on two practice questions:

The guys discuss why it’s dangerous to rely on keywords alone and suggest three ways to spot conclusions in Logical Reasoning.

41:16 - Good at RC, Bad at LR - Reading Comprehension has always come naturally to listener Zachary, but he struggles with Logical Reasoning. Ben and Nathan suspect that Zachary isn’t reading arguments carefully enough. They encourage Zachary to find ways to treat LR like RC.

48:23 - Comparative Passages - The guys shoot down some bad strategies for comparative passages in Reading Comprehension.

55:50 - Make Time for the LSAT - Listener Chance asks for study tips for students whose busy schedules allow them to listen to lessons only while driving. Nathan and Ben remind Chance that some of his competitors find time to study consistently despite keeping even busier schedules. One high-quality hour a day is all you need.

1:01:59 - LSAC GPA vs. Transcript GPA - Ben and Nathan explain the difference between the GPA on your transcript and the GPA that LSAC reports to law schools.

1:04:10 - Legal Woes in Personal Statements - Nathan and Ben discourage an anonymous listener from writing about their past arrest in their personal statement. They advise Anonymous to relegate the topic to a character and fitness addendum and to treat their personal statement as their sales pitch.

1:11:14 - LOR Access Waiver - The guys advise listener Christian to waive his right to access his letters of recommendation. They warn Christian that if he feels the need to review his LORs, then he’s requesting them from the wrong people.

1:13:20 - From Lassos to Law School - Listener Jake asks whether law schools will appreciate his work history as a professional cowboy. Ben and Nathan discuss how Jake can make the most of his personal brand on his applications, but they remind him that soft factors are ultimately less important than LSAT and GPA.

Jun 26, 202301:19:38
The Matthew Effect (Ep. 407)

The Matthew Effect (Ep. 407)


LSAT Demon teacher Matt DuMont takes a break from bar prep to join Ben and Nathan for a deep dive into his law school experience. Matt shares insights into what future law students can expect and how they can set themselves up for success. Later, the guys break down the real-world benefits of LSAT prep, discuss whether applicants should care about school rankings, and consider the merits of a new alternative to the LSAT.

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2:10 - Matt’s Road to Maryland - Matt just graduated from the University of Maryland School of Law near the top of his class. Today, he turns back the clock to share his law school application journey and discuss how he ended up at the University of Maryland.

11:33 - The Matthew Effect - The Matthew Effect is the tendency for those with advantage to accrue even more advantage over time. Matt turned down higher-ranked schools to attend the University of Maryland on a full-ride scholarship. He explains the advantages of attending a school that invested in him, including having a leg up on his competition for top jobs. Graduating debt-free means he can pursue his public interest goals without the pressure of paying off student loans.

28:38 - Tips for Law School -

Matt answers a bevy of questions from listener Mike about law school, including how much reading to expect each week, which classes to take after 1L, how to maintain mental health, and more.

49:32 - Real World Benefits of LSAT Prep -

Listener Ryan describes how studying LSAT Logical Reasoning helped him tackle a big project at work. Matt confirms that the LSAT helps to prepare you for law school and legal practice.

55:30 - Does School Rank Matter? - Does it really matter where you attend law school as long as you earn your JD? The guys discuss job outcomes that students can expect from differently ranked schools and opine on when it’s useless to compare school ranks. They double down on their advice to choose the best law school you can attend for free.

1:03:18 - A New Admissions Test - An anonymous listener asks Ben and Nathan to weigh in on JD-Next, the new ABA-approved admissions test launched by the University of Arizona. The guys don’t see it replacing the LSAT any time soon.

Jun 19, 202301:12:11
1L Prep (Angela Vorpahl) (Ep. 406)

1L Prep (Angela Vorpahl) (Ep. 406)

As the fall semester approaches, incoming 1Ls may wonder how to prepare themselves for law school. On this week’s episode, Nathan and Ben are joined by Angela Vorpahl, creator of the Law School Master Plan. Angela lays out what new law students should (and shouldn’t) do to build the skills they’ll need throughout law school.

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0:00 - Testing Limits - Beginning with the August 2023 LSAT, test takers will no longer be restricted to three attempts per application cycle. You can take the LSAT up to five times in five years and seven times in a lifetime. Read LSAC’s policy on repeating the test here.

6:30 - What You Won’t Learn in Law School - Not only does law school not teach you what it takes to succeed in legal practice, it doesn’t teach you what it takes to succeed in law school. Angela Vorphal started her YouTube channel and consulting business to address that knowledge gap. She joins the guys to discuss why it’s crucial to go into law school with a plan to approach your study efficiently and with a focus on what really matters.

23:48 - How to Prepare for Law School - Angela explains why incoming law students should focus on strategies to hone their approach to law school rather than try to learn the substantive law on their own. Angela also shares some career development tasks that 1Ls can tackle to get a leg up on the competition.

52:53 - Application Timing - How late is too late to apply? Ben and Nathan double down on their advice to apply early. They implore students to decouple their LSAT study from any application timeline.

Jun 12, 202301:08:29
Read Better, Not Faster (Ep. 405)

Read Better, Not Faster (Ep. 405)

Reading faster won’t solve your problems on LSAT Reading Comprehension. On this week’s pod, Ben and Nathan encourage a time-conscious student to slow down and focus on understanding what they read, not how quickly they read it. Later, the guys discuss why it’s crucial to remain open to taking the LSAT up to five times. They explain the difference between finding the main point of an RC passage and the main conclusion of an LR argument. And they hear from a student who praises LSAT Demon’s intuitive approach to the LSAT.

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0:47 - Read Better, Not Faster - Listener Connor worries that he reads too slowly to score well in LSAT Reading Comprehension or on his future law school exams. Nathan and Ben assure Connor that reading slowly isn’t a problem, but reading poorly is. The guys also briefly discuss disability accommodations in law school.

14:24 - LSAT Cross-Training - An anonymous listener credits their Logic Games practice for some of their progress in Logical Reasoning and Reading Comprehension. Ben and Nathan confirm that improving at one section of the LSAT can make you better at all sections of the test.

18:33 - Expect to Retake - Listener Emily fears that she won’t match her practice test scores on her official test. The guys encourage Emily to overcome this fear by embracing the idea that she can take the test up to five times, and only her highest score matters.

34:04 - Finding the Main Point in RC - Nathan and Ben discuss how to uncover the main point of an RC passage—and how doing so differs from identifying the main conclusion of an LR argument.

44:36 - Trust Your Intuition - Listener David asks an overly technical question about mistakes in conditional logic. Ben and Nathan implore David to forget these technicalities and approach the test more intuitively. The guys then hear from a student who wholeheartedly endorses LSAT Demon’s intuitive approach to the LSAT.

1:00:42 - Nathan Wins the Bet - Listener Robert shares evidence to settle Ben and Nathan’s bet about whether high school sweethearts fare worse in marriage than other couples do.

Jun 05, 202301:02:22
Worlds First, Worlds Always in Logic Games (Ep. 404)

Worlds First, Worlds Always in Logic Games (Ep. 404)

LSAT Demon teacher and Logic Games guru Matt DuMont joins Ben to share some LG wisdom. Matt and Ben discuss their approach to building worlds in Logic Games and outline productive study habits. Later, the guys help a listener who is concerned about how law schools may view his personal brand. They warn applicants against throwing up red flags in optional essays. And they implore listeners not to decide on a law school before beginning their application process.


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2:19 - Test Location Options - If you change your mind about taking the LSAT at a test center, you will have until three days before testing begins to schedule a remote session instead. If you’d like to switch from remote to in-person testing, you must do so before the seven-day deadline to schedule a test center.

5:35 - Worlds in Logic Games - Matt summarizes LSAT Demon’s world-building approach to Logic Games and answers some frequently asked questions:

  • How do I know when to stop making worlds?

  • What about games where it doesn’t make sense to build worlds?

21:59 - Do the “If” Questions First - Ben and Matt explain why they recommend answering “If” questions first in Logic Games: it’s a strategy that can’t hurt you and can sometimes help you by exposing you to new information about the game.

31:30 - Getting Faster in LG - Listener Don asks how to get faster at the games to overcome an LG plateau. Matt and Ben recommend attending live classes to sharpen world-building fundamentals, and they detail review methods that may help Don to approach games more efficiently.

46:01 - Does Law School Make Financial Sense? - Listener Brenda has sunk thousands of dollars and years of her life into preparing for the LSAT and law school. She now wonders whether law school is a wise financial decision. Ben and Matt advise Brenda to forget sunk costs and to reconsider going to law school if money is her motivation.

54:33 - Personal Brand - Listener Caleb worries that his religious college and work history may negatively impact his personal brand on law school applications. Matt and Ben discuss how Caleb can highlight his professional accomplishments without evangelizing.

1:00:38 - Optional Essays - Listener J is unsure how to approach optional essays related to diversity. Ben and Matt warn J not to overshare and to treat every essay as a potential red flag generator. If the essay won’t add something meaningful to your application, it’s better not to write it at all.

1:12:32 - Decide Last - Listener Marc has set his sights on Arizona State Law and asks when he should start studying for the LSAT. The guys worry that Marc has flipped the GLAD order of operations by deciding on a law school before applying. They encourage Marc to decide on a school at the end of his application process, not the beginning.

1:22:34 - Don’t Buy a Brand - Listener Jay asks whether he should accept a partial scholarship to his dream law school over a full ride at another good school. Ben and Matt counsel Jay not to invest in a law school’s “brand”—they want Jay to attend a school that invests in him.

May 29, 202301:37:23
Breaking Down the New Rankings (Ep. 403)

Breaking Down the New Rankings (Ep. 403)

After months of delays, the new law school rankings have arrived. Will changes to U.S. News’s methodology mean fewer merit scholarships? Ben is joined by TLP producer Erik to discuss the new rankings and how they might affect prospective law students. Later, Ben and Erik dig into the correlation–causation flaw, discuss the trouble with study timelines, and advise applicants on whether and how to write a GPA addendum.

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1:57 - Law School Rankings - Ben and Erik recap U.S. News’s tumultuous year and consider how the new ranking methodology might impact law schools’ admissions and scholarship decisions.

31:57 - Correlation vs. Causation - Ben breaks down the correlation–causation flaw. While correlation alone doesn’t prove causation, it is evidence of causation.

38:40 - Study Tips for a Marine - An anonymous student who’s also an active duty Marine officer asks for advice on how to study for the LSAT. Ben and Erik explain why LSAT Demon is the perfect study tool for a student who frequently travels. They also encourage Anonymous not to settle for a 155 target score.

44:15 - When Should I Start Studying? - Listener Rebecca asks for help plotting out her LSAT study timeline. Ben and Erik advise Rebecca not to plan backward from a particular test date or admissions cycle. Instead, she should start studying without a timeline and to take a gap year if needed.

51:11 - GPA Addendum - Erik and Ben review listener Spencer's GPA addendum and offer some general rules for how to approach your GPA addendum—or whether to write one at all.

1:01:43 - Work-Study vs. Law School - Listener Breanna asks for the guys’ opinion on a program that would allow her to take the bar exam after a four-year work-study program with a judge or attorney in lieu of attending law school. Ben and Erik are optimistic but encourage Breanna to do her due diligence on the program’s job outcomes.

May 22, 202301:06:22
Why Are the Guys So Rude? (And Other FAQs) (Ep. 402)

Why Are the Guys So Rude? (And Other FAQs) (Ep. 402)

“Why are the LSAT Demon guys so rude?” LSAT Demon’s social media lead, Ashley joins Nathan and Ben to share this and other frequently asked questions from internet strangers on our social media. Later, the guys face a major setback in their dream of creating their own law school, they break down a tricky “determined” question in Logic Games, and they encourage a student to stop worrying about “plateaus.”

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0:00 - FAQs from Social Media - Social media guru Ashley Beaver joins Ben and Nathan to answer some FAQs:

  • Which LSAT Demon plan should I start with?

  • Are Nathan and Ben friends in real life?

  • What LSAT score is good enough for me?

  • Why are the LSAT Demon guys so rude?

You can find Thinking LSAT and LSAT Demon on Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, and LinkedIn.

49:32 - ABA Accreditation - Listeners Bonnie and Jonathan share insights into the requirements for becoming an ABA-accredited law school. The guys rail against the absurdity of these regulations, which serve to entrench the power of existing law schools.

1:03:28 - Fatigue - Listener Patrick asks how to overcome mental fatigue at the end of practice tests. The guys assure Patrick that his LSAT endurance will improve naturally with time and practice.

1:05:53 - “Determined” Questions in LG - Nathan and Ben read an example of a “determined” question from PrepTest 65. They break down what this LG question type is asking and how to approach it.

1:08:32 - Focus on Your Mistakes - After years of study and four official test attempts, listener Sophie feels that she’s stuck in a plateau. How can she break free of her scoring slump on her fifth and final attempt? Ben and Nathan encourage Sophie not to obsess over practice test scores and to focus on her mistakes one question at a time.

1:14:24 - Diversity Statement - Listener Algernon considers writing a diversity statement about attending one of the few all-male colleges in the United States. Ben and Nathan doubt that such a statement would benefit Algernon, and they fear that it might highlight his naivety.

1:19:01 - Don’t Rush into Law School - Listener Marie asks for advice in creating an LSAT study schedule, but the guys question her motivations for pursuing a legal career. Career uncertainty isn’t a good reason to rush into law school.



May 15, 202301:29:41
How to Understand Abstract Answers (Ep. 401)

How to Understand Abstract Answers (Ep. 401)

Sometimes the writing on the LSAT feels deliberately opaque—especially when it uses abstract language. On this week’s episode, Ben and Nathan break down a challenging Reasoning question from PrepTest 65 by linking abstract terms in the answer choices to specifics from the passage. Later, the guys explain why they no longer teach “assumption negation” on Necessary Assumption questions. They steer a student away from worrying about contrapositives. And they fantasize about building a better law school online.

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0:41 - The LSAT Is Fun - The better you are at the LSAT, the more enjoyable it is. Ben and Nathan discuss why Logical Reasoning and Logic Games are their favorite sections of the test.

7:00 - Understanding Abstract Language - LSAT Demon student Eric asks how to approach questions that use awkward or vague language, like Logical Reasoning question 16 from PrepTest 65. Nathan and Ben parse each answer choice by tying abstract terms to concrete details in the passage. The guys instruct students not to settle for narrowing answer choices down to two or more contenders.

26:47 - Assumption Negation - Nathan and Ben explain why they no longer teach “assumption negation” on Necessary Assumption questions. They recommend a more intuitive approach: pick the answer choice that the author has to agree with.

32:03 - Forget Contrapositives - The guys tackle Logical Reasoning question 17 from PrepTest J. They champion a commonsense approach to the LSAT that doesn’t rely on contrapositives or indicator words. Students hinder their intuitive understanding of the test when they cling to overly technical “strategies” and dogma.

49:55 - Don’t Aim to Finish Sections - Ben and Nathan discuss the benefits of slowing down and attempting fewer questions rather than rushing to finish timed sections. Higher accuracy allows you to work less for more pay.

56:58 - Tuition Waivers and Online JDs - Listener L asks the guys to weigh in on a tuition waiver program that requires recipients to submit an IRS exemption form. Nathan and Ben fantasize about how an excellent online law school could disrupt the industry.

1:09:21 - Removing Failing Grades - An anonymous listener laments the fact that LSAC’s GPA calculation will include F’s that appear on their transcript even though their university has discounted those same grades. Ben and Nathan encourage Anonymous to continue petitioning to have failing grades entirely removed from their transcript.

1:15:43 - Prolonging Undergrad - Nathan and Ben weigh the value of prolonging an undergraduate degree in order to improve your GPA.

1:22:35 - Forty-Point Improvement? - Listener Jackson has already improved their score by twenty points but would need another twenty to reach their goal of 175. Ben and Nathan have never seen a forty-point improvement, but that doesn’t make it impossible.

May 08, 202301:27:39
Our Favorite Episodes (Ep. 400)

Our Favorite Episodes (Ep. 400)

From the “holy grail” of Logical Reasoning to roasting their own personal statements, Ben and Nathan celebrate 400 episodes by revisiting some of the podcast’s greatest hits. Later, the guys unpack the meaning of the word unless, address a discrepancy between drilling accuracy and timed-section scores, and  advise a listener on whether to write a GPA addendum.

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0:00 - The Best of Thinking LSAT -

Ben and Nathan revisit a few of Thinking LSAT’s best moments, handpicked by LSAT Demon team members:

15:08 - LSAT Price Increase - In August 2023, the LSAT test fee will increase to $222, and the CAS subscription fee will increase to $200.

16:35 - Unless - Listener Karl finds himself correcting people’s language more often as he studies for the LSAT. His wife isn’t amused. Nathan and Ben adjudicate a verbal dispute and explain that the word “unless” works like an escape hatch.

25:23 - Accuracy vs. Speed - The guys theorize why an anonymous listener performs worse on timed sections than in untimed drilling. They encourage Anonymous to find some swagger and to commit to leaving timed sections unfinished. Ben also shares some details about overcoming his struggles with reading.

39:13 - Application Deadlines - Listener K shares a chart comparing law school rankings and application deadlines. Ben and Nathan discuss some takeaways from the data.

46:22 - T14 with a Low GPA - Listener Jack worries that his low GPA will keep him out of the T14. Nathan and Ben think that Jack’s Reddit-fueled fears are overblown. They recommend that he apply broadly and make efforts to express his genuine interest in the schools he applies to.

57:25 - Lawyer Parents - An anonymous listener worries that law schools might discriminate against them for being the child of a lawyer. Ben and Nathan assure Anonymous that no such stigma exists in law school admissions.

1:04:00 - Own Your GPA - Listener Dan has a near-spotless undergraduate transcript. Should he write a GPA addendum to explain two outlier grades? Nathan and Ben suspect that addendums may exist so that law schools can gather unflattering info about their applicants. Dan would be better served by focusing on the positive parts of his application and not making excuses for low grades.

1:15:32 - High School Activities - An anonymous listener asks if it’s okay for a 19-year-old applicant to reference high school activities in their applications. Ben and Nathan encourage Anonymous not to rush and to get some work experience before going to law school.

1:19:27 - Marijuana Law - An anonymous listener worries that working for an attorney who practices marijuana law might be a red flag to some law schools. Nathan and Ben think that any school that discriminates on that basis probably isn’t a school that Anonymous would want to attend.

1:26:07 - Nothing’s Off the Table - The guys assure listener Jayson that no school is off the table as long as he applies broadly with his best LSAT score.

May 01, 202301:32:12
Mindfulness: Your LSAT Superpower (Ep. 399)

Mindfulness: Your LSAT Superpower (Ep. 399)

Your mind is awesome. Harness its power by training yourself to focus on what you choose. Today, Ben and Nathan extol the benefits of meditation as a way to reclaim control over your attention. Also on the pod, the guys emphasize the importance of understanding the passages in Reading Comprehension rather than simply trying to memorize facts. They explain why you should always plan to retake the LSAT. And they implore listeners not to let sunk costs guide their decision-making.

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0:00 - LSAT Swagger - Confidence is key on the LSAT. Register for Nathan’s upcoming free class to learn how to approach the test with swagger.

4:10 - Remembering vs. Understanding - Listener Caleb shares how a mid-test epiphany unlocked his confidence in Reading Comprehension. Ben and Nathan encourage listeners to focus on understanding rather than memorizing RC passages.

15:23 - Always Retake - LSAT Demon student Conner lost focus during the April LSAT when he encountered an issue with his remote proctor. Nathan and Ben encourage Conner to retake the test. Just as lawyers exhaust all possible arguments to defend their clients, test takers should exhaust all possible attempts to achieve their best scores.

28:10 - Online vs. In Person - Several listeners share their opinions on the in-person test option for the 2023–2024 cycle. Ben and Nathan think that your test environment shouldn’t matter if you’ve mastered the LSAT. They recommend meditation and mindfulness practice as a powerful way to sharpen your focus.

42:56 - Academic Credibility - The guys assure listener E that an applicant’s GPA matters far more than the “academic credibility” of their degree. They advise E to remain brief and factual in any academic addendum.

50:26 - Pearls vs. Turds - Listener Greg’s previous Pearls vs. Turds submission was judged a turd. Now he’s back with another potential pearl from his work as a police officer. Will Nathan and Ben ride along this time?

55:34 - Diagnostic Test - An anonymous listener asks whether they should begin with a cold diagnostic test or just start drilling. Ben and Nathan don’t think it matters as long as Anonymous starts practicing real LSAT questions and thoroughly reviewing their mistakes. Don’t get trapped by analysis paralysis when planning your LSAT prep.

1:12:56 - Forget Sunk Costs - After two years of studying, listener E is nowhere near their target score. E wants to throw in the towel and take the June test. Nathan and Ben implore E not to let a sunk cost cloud their judgment.

1:22:31 - GPA Appeal - Listener S shares how persistence paid off in appealing their GPA with their undergraduate institution.

1:28:40 - One Question at a Time - Listener Nick has his sights set on the T14 and big law, but he’s unsure how to boost his LSAT score into the 170s. Ben and Nathan point Nick back to the Demon way: focus on one question at a time.

Apr 24, 202301:34:28