Top Five

Chris and Liz are still buzzing from their recent trips -- Chris's to Mexico City and Oaxaca, Liz's to DC for her first sightseeing trip with kids. Then we get into a much more serious topic that's been on our minds lately: aging parents. We talk about why end-of-life plans are especially hard to discuss with our immigrant parents, the conversations we have and haven't had with them (and our siblings, and our in-laws), and the looming pressures of caring for kids and parents at the same time. To take the edge off, we wrap with a comfort-food top five: Trader Joe's items. Whether you're a TJ tourist like Chris or a TJ cult member like Liz, we've got recs! (This podcast is not sponsored by Trader Joe's; we are just this enthusiastic)

And that's a wrap on Season 3! We've loved spending this time with you and we look forward to getting back in the saddle after a break. Thank you for listening and for being part of these conversations!

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Art by Colin Turnbull (colinpturnbull.com)

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Chris is ambivalent about celebrity conductor Gustavo Dudamel's surprise move from LA to New York, and Liz is still awed by the amazing food she ate during a trip to LA.  Then, we talk about work: Once upon a time, it felt like our generation was all about finding a job we love so we'd never have to work a day in our lives, but judging from the conversations we've been having lately, it sounds like that's changed.  Why was "do what you love" such a thing for millennials?  Was it a generational thing or a developmental thing?  How do we think about work now?  What do you do if you don't want to sell your soul to work, but not advancing means the risk of getting fired?  This is real adult shit.  Finally, inspired by the Off Menu podcast (Liz's current favorite), we share our top five starters/appetizers.  Turns out we both agree that appetizers are low-key better than entrees, so this was a mouth-watering joy to put together!

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Art by Colin Turnbull (colinpturnbull.com)

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Liz is obsessed with the podcast Normal Gossip, while Chris is considering a new angle on voting in his last California election.  Then we get into a topic we haven't heard nearly enough about: couple friends.  Why is it so much more complicated to make couple friends than individual ones?  What are the signs of a good couple friend for us and our partners?  And crucially for Chris: Who pays the bill when you go out to dinner with another pair? Plus, our top five dinner guests.  We did not expect that making this list would change our lives, but for one of us... it kind of did.

Note:  This episode was recorded before the election and also before Twitter became even more of a raging dumpster fire than it already was!

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Art by Colin Turnbull (colinpturnbull.com)

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Chris is distressed about the Great Salt Lake drying up, while Liz is basking in the afterglow of a trip to New York City. Then, inspired by Liz’s recent entry into the world of travel credit cards, we get into the weeds of it all - the stresses of maximizing points and if the benefits are worth it; the inherently unethical credit card system and if it’s possible to live ethically within it. Finally, in celebration of all the Asian Americana we’ve been consuming and discussing over the last few months, our top five pieces of Asian American pop culture.  Baby Chris and Baby Liz wouldn’t believe how good we have it now!

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Art by Colin Turnbull (colinpturnbull.com)

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Chris survived COVID, and Liz cannot believe the shitshow that is the Michigan Republican gubernatorial primary. Then we celebrate the rarest of occurrences: We both saw Everything Everywhere All At Once and Fire Island! We couldn't wait to talk about the beauty of a rom-com where the suitors are secondary to the story, rave about star performances, and try to work out the takeaway of EEAAO.  (If you want to avoid EEAAO spoilers, please skip from 13:45 to 29:40; to avoid Fire Island spoilers, 30:00 to 43:30.) Plus, a surprisingly delightful top five: condiments!  For the first time ever, both lists get rewritten in real time because the world of condiments is wide and deep and delicious.  Happy dipping, everyone!

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Art by Colin Turnbull (colinpturnbull.com)

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We're reeling from the SCOTUS leak, so we needed a minute to unpack our reactions and both the political maneuvering and the toxic theology that got us to this point.  Then, on a more hopeful note, we get into the shocking abundance of Asian American movies and TV shows we're experiencing right now - how quickly the tide changed, if we're still obligated to see every single one, and what we're especially excited about. Plus, our top five hidden gems!  Whether you need a domestic travel spot or a fabulous bakery item, we've got you covered. 💎 

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The Slap was top of mind for us and everyone else in the world, so by popular request, we talk how we experienced it as avid consumers of celebrity culture (Liz) and survivors of toxic masculinity (Chris).  Then, continuing our conversation about managing our thirtysomething lives, we dig into the division of labor in our households -- the messages we got growing up, what this looks like now with our partners, and if it can ever be truly even in heterosexual partnerships.  Plus, one of our favorite top fives ever: Asian snacks!  It was hard to narrow down this universe of deliciousness to five favorites, but somehow we managed.  And now we're starving.

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Note: This episode was recorded a few weeks ago, before Russia invaded Ukraine, and it feels like we live an entirely different world now. Sending love and care to all, especially those who are directly impacted by the atrocities happening in Ukraine. 🇺🇦

[CW: violence against Asian Americans]

Liz and Chris reflect on the murder of Christina Yuna Lee and the rash of violence against Asian American women in New York City and elsewhere, which hits close to home for both of us.  Then we dig into a very different topic: how we manage our unwieldy thirtysomething lives as they get more complicated and more deeply intertwined with other people's. How do you keep track of all the schedules in your household? What spreadsheets do you rely on to keep your life in order? What do your systems say about where you are in life right now? Staying on the thirtysomething household theme, we end with the top five things that make our homes better.  We need all the tools we can get to survive these wild times, so we hope this episode brings you some respite and some inspiration for how to make life a little less stressful. ❤️

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Chris is appalled that anti-CRT rhetoric is turning into actual book bans, and Liz wept through Speed Cubers, a sweet documentary on Netflix. Then, inspired by current events, we dig into the complicated process of making a wedding guest list, that once-in-a-lifetime referendum on all your friendships.  How do you decide who gets an invite, especially when you're getting married in your late 30s?  What does an invite convey to a new friend or a childhood friend you haven't seen in ten years?  We also talk about the younger cousin of the wedding invitation -- the holiday card -- and the strange opportunity it provides for an annual assessment of your friendships.  Plus, our top five TV characters of all time.  How many of Chris's are from The Wire?  There's only one way to find out.

Note: This episode was recorded before the murder of Christina Yuna Lee in New York City; we will have more to say about this in our next episode.  We hope you're taking care and being extra-kind to yourselves. ❤️

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Liz is loving the cast album of Six: The Musical, and Chris is unsettled by his New Year's Eve viewing of Don't Look Up.  (Spoiler alert: Please skip 6:00 to 17:10 if you don't want to know how the movie ends.)  Then we revisit a topic that we first discussed two and a half years ago, in our second episode: adulthood.  We talk about Chris's major life updates, whether adulthood is anything more than a series of logistical tasks, and Liz's newfound understanding of why people have midlife crises.  And since we're right in between Solar New Year and Lunar New Year, we wrap with our New Year's resolutions.  The differences in the aspirations of someone who has kids and someone who does not have never been starker.  Happy Year of the Tiger, y'all!  We still have one more chance to try out those resolutions again.

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Art by Colin Turnbull (colinpturnbull.com)

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Happy New Year, friends! Holiday stress was top of mind when we recorded this episode, which led us to some critical questions:  Who do you buy holiday presents for?  Now that we have all these new holiday gift obligations, we get into the weeds:  What do you give the ten different teachers who care for your preschooler?  If you're a New York City resident like Chris, how much do you tip your doorman and the seven other people who work in your building?  What's the minimum you can put on a gift card without looking cheap?  We end by revisiting our favorite top five: celebrity crushes.  New season, new list of beautiful people.  We hope your 2022 is off to a good start and we're honored to be a part of it!

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Liz is confused about why queer-affirming people continue to speak at events that are not (content warning for discussion of queer-unaffirming theology; please skip 2:10 through 9:45 if you’d like to avoid it). Meanwhile, Chris celebrates the return of March Madness, and one of us has to pay up on a wager we made when our teams went head-to-head.  Then, inspired by a recent event (!!!), we talk about engagement culture: the traditions that have been locked in — even as wedding traditions get disrupted left and right — and what happens when you decide to do things differently.  We wrap with our final top five of the season: subcultures we want to explore.  Thanks for joining us for Season Two — we’ve loved sharing it with you!  We’ll see you when we return for round three. 🤟

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CW: anti-Asian violence, murder

We would love to be talking about something else, but here we are. We check in and talk about the shooting through our lenses as Asian Americans and former evangelicals who were raised in purity culture, and in Liz’s case, as an Asian American woman and parent.  We also dig into all of the other stuff the tragedy has kicked up — like how have your non-Asian friends shown up (or not)?  How has your workplace handled this, and how much of the labor did they put on you?  How are you taking care of yourself right now?  In the midst of everything that’s happening, we hope you’re being extra-kind and gracious with yourself.  We’re thinking of you and sending you love.

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In true pandemic fashion, Netflix is giving us life: Liz finally discovered Schitt’s Creek, and Chris loved The 40-Year-Old Version. Then we get into the ethical questions that have been weighing on us in the current COVID landscape:  Is it okay to wait in line for a leftover vaccine before we’re eligible?  Is it reasonable to ask a teacher to return to the classroom without a vaccine?  What is our individual responsibility in a messed-up system?  Plus, the top five fads/trends (we’re not clear on the difference) that we don’t understand.  The dawn of middle age is upon us, y’all, and we’re leaning all the way in.

Note: We recorded this episode before the shootings in Atlanta; we'll discuss that in our next episode. We’re thinking of you, friends — please stay safe.

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Chris atones for the transgression of calling Michelle Branch a one-hit wonder, and Liz still isn't over how amazing Michelle Obama looked at the inauguration. Then, inspired by our discussion of Big Mouth in the last episode, we talk about the fraught terrain of puberty — what the show gets right, our own awkward and traumatic experiences, and what we learned about sex and our bodies from school and church. (God knows we did not learn anything from our parents.)  Plus, our top five same-sex crushes — a fitting end to an episode about hormones.

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Art by Colin Turnbull (colinpturnbull.com)

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[Content warning: body image issues]

Chris pays tribute to his late uncle; Liz is blasting through Big Mouth on Netflix. Then we dig into all the messages we got from our parents about our bodies -- what they told us about our weight (and height, and skin, and...), how those messages impacted us and what was really behind them, and how we navigate these conversations as adults.  We wrap with our top five one-hit wonders.  Is it just us, or was the ‘90s full of fantastic one-hit wonders? 😉

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Liz is obsessed with Future Nostalgia, Dua Lipa’s incredible new(ish) album, and Chris is digging into The Color of Law, Richard Rothstein’s landmark book about housing segregation. Then we talk about that age-old adult problem: how to navigate old friendships where you no longer see eye to eye. We talk about the place that our old friendships have in our lives, how we’ve handled significant differences that have appeared over the years, and the complicated question of who we feel most at home with now. Plus, the top five personas we’ve taken on. Turns out: trying on new identities isn’t just for teens.

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Art by Colin Turnbull (colinpturnbull.com)

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On the eve of his move, Chris reflects on his time in DC, while Liz finally sees the light regarding Harry Styles. Then, as we love to do at the end of every year, we reflect on what this year of cataclysmic change meant for us personally, how it changed us, and what we’re looking forward to in 2021.  Plus, our top five things we’ll never do again after 2020.  Which leads to a discussion about an underdiscussed topic: house clothes.  Do you differentiate your wardrobe into inside clothes and outside clothes (like Chris) or day clothes and night clothes (like Liz)?  We’re dying to know.

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We’re so excited not to be talking about existential threats anymore! Liz is mourning the loss of Tony Hsieh, and Chris is binge-watching The Queen’s Gambit and The Legend of Kora. Then we get into the real quandary of the day: gifts for our parents. What do you get for an immigrant parent who has no hobbies and can buy anything they need? Why have we still not figured this out after thirty-some years of gift-giving? And keeping with our holiday theme, we end with our top five holiday songs. We can agree on one thing: There’s only one reigning queen of Christmas.

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Art by Colin Turnbull

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IT’S NEW DAY IN AMERICA, Y’ALL. We’re elated to talk about Biden’s election win, our experiences of election week (including Liz’s day working at the polls… in Trump country), and the results we’re celebrating and grieving. Plus, our top five states and people we have messages for, in light of the election, since that’s all we’ve been able to think about for the last two weeks. Florida, it’s not us -- it’s definitely you.

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Liz is channeling her pandemic and election anxiety into home improvement, while Chris feels the effects of an executive order at work. Then, on this Election Day Eve, we reflect on the last four years: where we were during the last presidential election, how the last four years have changed us, and (dare we even hope) what we’d want to see immediately from a Biden administration, should we be so lucky to see one. We wrap with an escapist top five: dream travel destinations. The food we want to eat, the places we want to see, and did we mention the food we want to eat?

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So much has happened in culture since our last season ended, so consider this our pop culture catch-up.  We finally get to discuss The Last Dance (remember when that was what everyone was talking about?  Can you even remember?) and Indian Matchmaking before tackling Nice White Parents, the new podcast from the producers of Serial.  We talk about the tensions between valuing equity and public education vs. wanting what’s best for your kids, our experiences of these issues as a parent and a policy researcher, and where Asian American parents fall in this equation. Plus, our top five things that haven’t aged well.  Children’s books, revered politicians — we're coming for all of them.

Note: This episode was recorded before the passing of RBG, which we’ll discuss in our next episode.

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Happy Labor Day, everyone!  Liz is still buzzing from the Democratic National Convention, while Chris is reeling from the newly released bodycam footage of Masai Ujiri, president of the Toronto Raptors, and his run-in with police in the aftermath of his team’s championship win.  Which leads us into our topic of the day: how the racial landscape has changed in the post-George Floyd era, particularly in our Asian American communities.  We talk about the engagement we’ve seen in recent weeks compared to post-Ferguson in 2014, the conversations we’re having now, and how we hope to sustain momentum for the long haul. We end on a lighter note: our top five favorite stand-up comedians. In trying times like these, their wit and incisive observations are essential.

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In these trying times, we’re finding hope in the political realm, of all places -- Chris from old Obama videos, Liz from a surprising victory in Wisconsin. Speaking of politics: Now that the Democratic primary is settled, we finally have the spoons to talk about it -- who we were rooting for, our feelings about its conclusion, and our hopes and fears for the presumptive nominee. And as we wrap our first season, we leave you with the top five pieces of advice we’ve ever gotten. Thanks for taking this ride with us, y'all! We've loved sharing Season One with you. We’ll be back soon! ✌️

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Art (and episode title) by Colin Turnbull

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Liz has Feelings about Andrew Yang’s op-ed in the Washington Post, and Chris is not feeling Tiger King.  We’ve also got feelings about how some religious communities have responded to the coronavirus, which brings us to a conversation about religion and science -- how the evangelical communities of our youth separated the two, our journeys of breaking down that barrier, and engaging (or not) with people who haven’t done that work yet. We wrap with a bittersweet top five, given the sports desert we currently find ourselves in: our top five athletes of all time. Sports! We miss you!

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The world has completely changed since we last recorded, and we’re trying to make sense of it all. We break down what our lives look like in the era of social distancing and working from home -- with and without kids -- and, to lighten things up, the silver linings and winners of quarantine. Then we share our top five pop culture things giving us life in the time of corona, because in these trying times, every bit of joy counts. Sending love to you all -- stay safe, wash your hands, and don’t touch your face!

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Liz devoured the Catch and Kill podcast, and Chris is thinking about the immediate and long-term implications of coronavirus. Then we break down our ever-evolving relationships with the suburbs: our childhoods in peak suburbia, fleeing to cities as young adults, and — dare we say it — slowly warming to the ‘burbs again in our thirties.  Plus, our top five movies that changed our lives. (Note: We recorded this a week ago, before coronavirus concerns reached fever pitch. Stay safe, everyone!)

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Chris is thinking about baseball’s sign-stealing scandal, while Liz is verklempt after getting a glimpse of her brother’s life in DC. Then, we talk about side hustles - the pros and cons of having projects to work on after work, piecing together a professional life with multiple jobs, and making room for rest in the midst of all of it. Plus, the top five dining experiences of our lives. Who knew that a Burger King in Budapest and a basement food court in LA could ever taste so good?

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Art by Colin Turnbull

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Liz reflects on the end of Kamala Harris’s run for president, while Chris embarks on his first man-date. Then, in honor of the holiday season and all the big dinners that come with it, we talk about contentious family conversations: navigating them with our families and in-laws, how the addition of partners and children can change the dynamics, and setting boundaries when your parents have (literally) no language for them.  Plus, the top five millennial stereotypes we embody.  (We do have a podcast, so… there’s one.)

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It’s our first in-person episode! We talk about Chris’s weekend in Ann Arbor for the Michigan-Ohio State game and Liz’s last hurrah with football. Then, we get into a topic that isn’t discussed often enough: making friends in your thirties. Why is it so hard? What makes it so different from making friends in your twenties? How do we get over the hurdles and make these friendships happen? Plus, in honor of the big game, the top five sports moments of our lifetimes. We laugh, we cry, and we remember that sports are magic, and sports are never just about sports.

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Liz binges on Conan O’Brien’s podcast, while Chris reflects on the geopolitical rift between the US and China opened by… the general manager of a basketball team. Then we get to some real talk about couples and money: Does everyone merge their assets when they get married? Who should pay for the first date when culture and feminism give us different answers? Will we ever be free of our anxiety about picking up the check? Plus, the easiest top five lists we’ve ever made: pet peeves. Talking about the most irritating things has never been so fun.

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It’s been a minute since we applied to college, but those memories come back QUICK. We talk about that formative time, inspired by our topic of the day: the decision in the Students for Fair Admissions vs. Harvard case. We break down why affirmative action and race-conscious admissions are important, the use of Asian Americans as political pawns, and the perils of organizing without understanding our place in the racial landscape. Then, a classic top five: TV shows of all time!

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The internet has been overflowing with good stories this week! We talk about the articles and podcast episodes that grabbed us the most. Then, we ask: If we’re all about Asian America, why aren’t we jazzed about Andrew Yang? We get into the model minority myth, the ideology undergirding Yang’s proposals, and our experiences with the YangGang. And that’s before we get to the real controversies: our top five things everyone loves but we don’t. Come for the sociopolitical commentary, stay for the shade.

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Chris watches Aziz Ansari’s first standup special after his #metoo accusations, while Liz can’t stop talking about the new season of the 30 for 30 podcast. Then we ask our burning questions about our very different thirtysomething lives: resuming adult life after a five-year break (that’s Chris) and parenting two kids while struggling to find time to work (that’s Liz). Plus, a jaunt down memory lane as we discuss our top five albums of the 90s. Brace yourself for nostalgia, all your teenage feelings, and a wicked horn section.

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A typhus outbreak makes Liz realize the extent of the housing crisis in California, while Chris grapples with giving up his car. Then we break down The Farewell -- what the film nailed, the scenes that stayed with us, and (spoiler alert) a surprising difference of interpretation on the ending. Also, an extra-fun top five: power couples! It’s the dawn of a golden age of power couples, y'all, and we’re lucky to be living in it.

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Chris catches three race-related movies on a flight to Tanzania. Liz binges on Adulting, which leads us to break down the most adult things we’ve done in the last year. We wrap with this week’s top five: problematic faves. Nothing and no one is safe.

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