What's the value?

"Philosophy is actually the end of abstractions."

Wow, what a statement to think about. How different our approach to life might become if we embrace that thought. How much more reflective and humble we might become.

This conversation with Nikos was full of interesting and insightful thoughts. We talked philosophy, biology, evolution, psychology, and spirituality-- all with the same goal of trying to better understand what the hell we are doing here.

Not because it is interesting to think about, but because it is the realest, most practical question we can ask.

A more complete bio for Nikos below:

Following in the footsteps of Epicurus, Nikos Patedakis works with individuals, groups, and organizations, bringing to bear the most powerful and holistic teachings of the wisdom traditions in relation to our most daunting personal and global challenges.

His training includes earning two master’s degrees and a PhD, as well as a graduating from a 3-year, full-time certification course in specialized educational theory and practice—along with countless hours of spiritual practice and years spent teaching inside and outside of the university system, as well as years spent working as a consulting philosopher and corporate trainer for Fortune 500 companies.

Chad is a successful business person who now works to help coach others on how to be successful. What's super interesting about Chad is that:

1. He has some spiritual and religious values that underpin a lot of his thinking and his goals in life.

2. On the surface, he can seem like a bit of a "finance bro" who overemphasizes his masculinity and his drive to win at life.

As we do on this show, we spent the discussion trying to reconcile that, understand who Chad really is, and why he approaches life the way he does.

We didn't shy away from the controversial areas or the potential contradictions, we leaned into them. The result was a really honest and authentic conversation, where I got to truly understand another person's perspective.

Big thanks to Chad for being game for the discussion and having an honest conversation.

A more complete bio from Chad is below:

Chad Wittfeldt started his entrepreneurial journey at a young age by starting a landscaping company and electronic arbitrage business in his teenage years. He quickly focused on investing in the equities & currency markets. Chad later became a full-time investor and real estate entrepreneur in his twenties. Today, he's partnered on over $30,000,000 in real estate syndications.

Dana has experienced a lot of trauma and abuse in her life by narcissists. From a young age she dealt with it from her mother and step father and even later in life at the hands of her ex-husband. She spent so much time struggling with this form of physical, verbal, and psychological abuse that it made her question the reality she was living in.

As she explains in her work, narcissistic abusers create so much confusion and conflict in the mind of the abused. She's struggled with this for much of her life and that is why her value of finding the truth is so important to her.

Dana was super open to share her experiences and really examine them in an earnest way. We spent time trying to make sense of what leads someone to abuse someone in this way, how she grappled with her own self doubt, and even if she could/should have empathy for her abusers. Some of these questions are really hard to ask and even harder to answer. But if we want to understand the ugliness in our world, we need to examine it.

I can't thank her enough for engaging in this type of discussion so that others can better understand their own situation.

A more complete bio from Dana is below:

Dana S. Diaz is a wife, mother, and author of the best-selling book GASPING FOR AIR: THE STRANGLEHOLD OF NARCISSISTIC ABUSE. Dana has had life-long experience with narcissistic abuse, beginning in childhood. Her education in journalism and psychology at DePaul University in Chicago gave her the ability to accurately verbalize and express how narcissistic abuse creates confusion and conflict within victims, so that she can help other victims know they are not alone and better understand their own circumstances. Today, Dana is a proud voice for fellow victims who are unable, afraid, or ashamed to share their experiences. She strives to create awareness and understanding to ensure victims are given the support they need to first understand their situation and then begin the healing process. Her first book, chronicling her own abusive marriage that lasted nearly three decades, started as a journal that she hid under the couch cushion in the basement.

Gerald is a psychoanalyst, who has studied human behavior for a long time. He has used that expertise to formulate hypotheses about social issues, like feminism, civil rights, and most recently mass shootings in America.

Some of his views have been called insensitive or offensive. For example, in trying to explore how to stop mass shootings, one of his ideas is to regulate who is allowed to parent a child. The thought being that ineffective child rearing (among other social/cultural issues) is leading to a number of mass shootings.

That type of idea is the exact one I want to explore on the show. I want us to swim in the nuance, sensitivity, and uncomfortableness. Not for the shock factor, but because genuinely exploring these types of ideas allows us to learn.

If it is a horrible idea, then let us rip it apart and examine it to see. I fully understand that words can do damage and these topics can be difficult to discuss. But my hope is that this show is able to walk the line of being open minded/exploring, while at the same time holding people accountable and calling out things that seem harmful.

A more complete bio from Gerald is below:

Gerald Schoenewolf, Ph.D. is a licensed psychoanalyst who has been practicing in New York for over 45 years. During that time he has offered numerous presentations at conferences and published 30 books and numerous papers in professional journals, including "The Myth of Sexual Abuse." Other papers offer original theories on the death trauma, gender narcissism and autism. InThe Mass Killer: Six Case Histories That Tell Us Why, he directs his psychoanalytic knowledge and research to an examination of the how and why of mass killings, exploring the psychology and social psychology of six notorious cases.

Dr. Schoenewolf is a noted psychoanalyst, listed on Wikipedia, with a world-wide reputation. In addition to his writings on psychology, he has also published nine novels, translated two books of philosophy, written, directed and produced two feature films. and wrote and illustrated a book of poetry and a DVD of video poems. He currently lives in Bethlehem, PA with his wife, Julia, his parrot, Lucky, and his cats, Minnie and Max.

My guest, Kent, believes humanity is in a crisis but he is very optimistic that we have the tools and knowledge to overcome that crisis. Much of the problem is rooted in our attachments (or lack thereof) during childhood. We are all damaged children who grow up to become damaged adults and the work Kent is doing is to help us figure out how to heal that damage and be better going forward.

If you've listened to the show before, you know I tend to take a much more cynical view of humanity. I look around and see all the damage Kent speaks of, but I don't see any reason to believe that we, at scale, can figure it out and heal ourselves. Life is too complex and our minds are too incapable of handling it.

So Kent and I spent some time discussing his work, why he does it, and why he thinks it will actually help humanity.

A more complete bio from Kent below-

Kent Weishaus’ new book, “Stop Breaking Down: The Secret to Avoiding Overwhelm and Crack-Up,” shows us how to step back, take the high ground, observing our biological and mental processes within the context of the overwhelming demands of our 21st century world. Kent is a licensed clinical social worker in private practice in California. He has worked in mental hospitals, community clinics, schools, and served as an adjunct professor at Cal State Los Angeles, teaching social work theory and practice classes to master degree students.

Olga has a belief that free will doesn't exist. This belief isn't rooted in spirituality or intuition, it is deeply rooted in science and reason. Olga believes if people understood that free doesn't exist, it would actually inspire us to be more humble, more caring, and increase our overall quality of life.

These conversations are so rich with good discussion because there is so much to get into. Does free will really not exist, how would we know? What are the implications of free will not existing, how do we know it would make people better off knowing that? If free will doesn't exist does that mean our individual lives are meaningless? How can any decision I make actually matter if I didn't have the free will to decide anyway?

As a scientist and a philosopher, Olga was a great person to kick around these questions with. She's thought through so much of it in her work but also in a novella she just released exploring these exact topics.

A more complete bio from Olga below-

I am an Associate Professor in the Department of Radiology and Biomedical Imaging at the University of California in San Francisco (UCSF). I hold my degrees in Physics (PhD), Electrical Engineering (MSc and BSc), and Psychology (BSc). Professionally I focus on studying adolescent brain development and mental health. My other goals in life include sharing my passion for science and critical thinking, and helping people have more joy in their lives. The award-winning novella Just City is my first fiction book, which reflects my passion for science and critical thinking.

Hajar cares deeply about humanity. She believes in humanity and that we can figure out ways to stop finding reasons to divide ourselves, causing suffering, and hating one another. She is also knowledgable enough to know that it won't be easy. That's why she's dedicated her life as a professor and author to try to better understand humanity and figure this thing out.

This thing is messy though. If I have learned nothing else from doing this show it is that. So we dove into the messiness of it and tried to understand together. We talked about civil rights, American Exceptionalism, poverty, human dignity, and other topics that should be front and center in all of our dialogue but often gets pushed to the side. What I appreciated most in this conversation, was Hajar's humility and willingness to try to understand those she doesn't agree with. I hope you guys enjoy it as much as I did.

More complete bio from Hajar-

Hajar Yazdiha is an Assistant Professor of Sociology, faculty affiliate of the Equity Research Institute, and a 2023-2025 CIFAR Global Azrieli Scholar. Dr. Yazdiha received her Ph.D. in Sociology from the University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill and is a former Ford Postdoctoral Fellow and Turpanjian Postdoctoral Fellow of the Chair in Civil Society and Social Change.

Dr. Yazdiha’s new book entitled, The Struggle for the People’s King: How Politics Transforms the Memory of the Civil Rights Movement (Princeton University Press) examines how a wide range of rivaling social movements across the political spectrum deploy competing interpretations of the Civil Rights Movement to make claims around national identity and inclusion. Comparing how rival movements constituted by minority and majority groups with a range of identities — racial, gender, sexuality, religious, moral, political — battle over collective memory, the book documents how the misuses of the racial past erode multicultural democracy.

Radell's mission is to have authentic conversations, expand people's perspectives, and find a way out of the toxic political discourse that exists in our world today. He hopes to use his podcast (https://www.purplepoliticalbreakdown.com) to show people that you can use logic, reason, and understanding to work through some of the most complex and nuanced issues that society faces.

This approach obviously resonates with me and I enjoyed digging into some of today's political issues to see how Radell's approach might help solve them. Maybe even more so, I enjoyed getting to better understand him, his value system, and why he finds this work so important.

He is also another in a long line of guests who has optimism that humanity can be better. Sadly, I find myself more pessimistic as time goes on, so we also spent time debating if we have any chance of figuring this thing out or if we are just doomed.

More complete bio from Radell-

Navigating the vast amount of bouncing around the political spectrum my entire life I have finally figured something important out. It doesn't matter. I've been religious, been in the military, went to a liberal school and all in all none of the political biases matter. We shouldn't let toxic discourse cloud our judgement and find a solution through logic and conversation. In pursuit of this mission I created this podcast to focus on these important conversations.

There are some conversations, where you feel like you are truly examining the human experience; not for any specific reason, but just because both people are so fascinated with understanding.

This discussion with Troy (https://troyhadeed.com/) was a beautiful, deep look into what this existence is really all about. Neither of us would be so naive to assume we have all the answers, but that is not the point. The point is caring enough to explore it.

Troy has lived an interesting life and has a super unique perspective. Maybe most importantly he cares a lot about humanity and the world around him. We talked about love, God, spirituality, science, nature, and life. I hope you enjoy it as much as I did.

A more complete bio from Troy-

Troy Hadeed was born in Trinidad, wrote his first letter to the editor at 10, has taught yoga internationally for over 15 years, and has founded several successful businesses, including a hemp store, a waste oil recycling business and a yoga studio. He has walked coast-to-coast across central America, navigated the world on a ship, spent prolonged periods in silence, and is continuously seeking to make sense of the human experience.

In all things, Troy hopes that his life will assist others in rediscovering a relationship with the God of their understanding while inspiring people to embody more compassion, understanding, and love.

I am not there yet, I know that. I want to be able to have conversations with people, like my guest Frank, and actually get to the root of it. I want to be able to understand what makes people see the world so differently. I want to understand what makes one person think racism and the aftermath of slavery still loom large in our country, whereas another person thinks it is not much of an issue at all.

It is hard though. Maybe it shouldn't be so hard, but I find myself trying to walk the line of curiosity and confrontation. Both are necessary at times, but I still find myself hesitant to push too hard. Maybe it is a good thing, because the only way to make progress on problems like these is through understanding not confrontation. Or maybe it is a bad thing, because the conversation could be so much more powerful if I didn't hedge so much.

I appreciate Frank being on and sharing his views. Some people may not agree with them, some people may. I hope after listening though, if nothing else, there is a little more insight and understanding into his psyche and how he thinks. I also hope as I keep doing these shows, I find ways to have difficult conversations like this without shying away from the heart of the matter.

More complete bio from Frank below-

Frank Salvato is an experienced multi-media production specialist with a demonstrated history of working in the online print publication and communications industry both as a managing editor and a content creator. He is currently the primary writer and editor, as well as podcast host, at UndergroundUSA.com. The podcast is syndicated on iHeart Radio, Pandora, Audible, and anywhere podcasts are heard. He just released my new book, Nullification: The Case for Decentralizing the Federal Government, which reached number one on Amazon in the Political Leadership category in its first week. His writing has been recognized by the US House International Relations Committee and the Japan Center for Conflict Prevention. I served as an Associate Editor for The Washington Dispatch in the 2000s and as Publisher and Managing Editor of The New Media Journal.

Sean, at one time in his life, was angry, overweight, drinking too much, and not the person he wanted to be in life. There were various reasons for these issues, but if you had to sum them up, it was that he never really believed he was capable of anything different. Sean was raised a certain way and started to form certain beliefs/habits that seemed impossible to break.

This isn't some magical story of transformation, where someone went on a quest to find themselves (not there is anything wrong with that). There was no spiritual awakening or near death experience that prompted the change. Sean was just a person, who eventually realized life could be better than what it was. He realized he could be a better person, husband, and dad than he had been. And through thoughtfulness, dedication, and hard work he turned his life around.

Maybe the most fascinating part of this discussion, which I am not sure we came to a complete conclusion on, was why some people like Sean never figure out how to change/improve? There are so many of us that can resonate with parts of his story, but for some reason some of us never find a way out.

More complete bio from Sean here-

Sean Robinson is a thirty-seven year old Author, Speaker and Motivator who focuses on self-improvement, mindset shifting and habit forming. He works in the construction industry, is a volunteer firefighter. and lives with his wife & three children in Ontario, Canada. Going Dry: My Path to Overcoming Habitual Drinking is his first book.

A solo session where I reflect on some of the things I am learning, examine the value of cynicism, and explore how we (humans) might be better.

Daniel is a philosopher with a strongly held belief that western philosophy is one of the most important contributions in the history of humanity. This is obviously directly in my wheel house so I was excited for this discussion, although I know for some people deep philosophical conversations can feel abstract or tough to follow. For that reason I tried to ask questions that brought the abstract concepts back down to practical terms, to make sense of how valuable they really are to humanity.

Daniel has a deep base of knowledge and some really well thought out view points on how Western Philosophy has and will continue to shape our lives. Although I see a ton of credence to that belief, I still do wonder often if there is really any practical value to it. Is it possible the ultimate irony is that we are equipped with minds that can't help but explore and seek meaning, but we live in a world where it is impossible to find any concrete meaning? Daniel and I did our best to try to answer that question.

More complete bio from Daniel-

Daniel is the founder of “planksip® (a philosophy and culture media outlet), Philosopher, Vlogger, Content Creator, Interviewer, and Cultural Journalist.

Dale is someone who is concerned that America is forgetting its history and as a result is dooming its future. He has a strong belief in his faith and because of that he feels compelled to speak out and take action to try to help.

I do this show to have conversations with people that have strong opinions or viewpoints, because I want to take the time to understand what is really underneath them. It is very easy in today's world to see a conservative, older white male who thinks we need to get back to our history and assume you know exactly who they are and what they think.

I don't like making those assumptions. I like actually talking to the people to try to better understand them. I find life is much more interesting that way and I think it gives us a much better chance to reach better outcomes, even with those who see the world differently than we do.

A more complete bio from Dale is below:

Dale is a retired substance abuse counselor, chef, and now a podcaster. He loves history, talking about it, and trying to learn from it. Dale is a life long Conservative life long and devout Christian, with a website called Coffee Time Again (https://coffee-time-again.com/)

Brian is a strong believer in libertarianism and the idea that both parties have their obvious flaws therefore the only thing that makes sense is minimizing government and allowing people to be free to be who they want to be.

The idea of libertarianism is always intriguing to me theory, so it was really interesting to pressure test and examine what it really means, how it works, and how tolerant it actually is.

Bio Provided by Brian:

Brian McWilliams is a native Philadelphian currently living in Los Angeles. He’s a communications and public relations expert, comedian and writer. His passion and concern for liberty was realized during Ron Paul’s 2008 campaign, which shed light on the troubling initiatives our government was embracing that infringed on the tenets that the United States was founded upon. Brian is the host and producer of “Mean Age Daydream,” the Lions of Liberty Network’s weekly Wednesday look at current events, culture and comedy through a liberty lens.  

Josh is a podcaster and blogger (https://www.savingelephantsblog.com/) who has a strong belief in the tradition of conservatism in America. He believes being virtuous is the most important thing we can do and his conservative philosophy suggests, more often than not, the most virtuous thing we can do is not try to drive radical change. There are times for that, but most often we'd be better to trust in the natural course of things and the way they've worked in the past.

We approached this discussion in a very intellectual way, trying to understand the logic, function, and value of conservatism. Rather than debate specific political or societal issues (although we touched on a few) we debated the underlying rationale of this approach. Perhaps the most fundamental question in this debate was if we (humans) have an obligation to try to do better than "nature" or our history? Is it virtuous to try to find a better way, even if it means cracking some eggs or is the right thing to do to exercise prudence and temperance?

More info on Josh below-

Podcasting and blogging extensively about the historical intellectual tradition of conservatism in America, including the roots of modern conservative thought from Edmund Burke to the development of the movement conservatism in the United States via the work of individuals such as the American Founding Fathers, Russell Kirk, William F. Buckley, Frank Meyer, Leo Strauss, Milton Friedman, Thomas Sowell and more contemporary thinkers such as Sir Roger Scruton, Ross Douthat, Jonah Goldberg, and Yuval Levin.
As a Millennial myself, I have a passion for sharing the depth of conservatism with my generation and a greater sense of the unique struggles younger Americans face and the challenge older conservatives have with crafting a winsome message for future generations.

My guest, Daniel, refers to himself as a recovering racist. As he puts it, "I acknowledge that I have held racist beliefs in the past, but I am committed to unlearning them and becoming an anti-racist. I strive to constantly examine my thoughts and actions for any signs of prejudice and take steps to address them."

There are a ton of interesting aspects of this to explore. What makes someone racist, how does unconscious racism work, how do we become "anti-racist", etc.? Beyond those obvious questions though, there are also the more philosophical questions about human nature. Are humans just inherently selfish and racism is just a form of that selfishness? If so, do we really believe we can ever eliminate it?

We even asked the question of why this topic is so important to Daniel? There are so many ugly things in this world, why has he chosen racism as such an important focus? Is it just a form of virtue signaling or is it genuine? So many questions and such an important and interesting topic. Big thanks to Daniel for being on, for sharing his perspective, and for the work he is doing.

Johnathan has been on the show once before, in season 1, but wanted to come back for season 2 to talk about his strongly held belief on the importance of getting a college degree. His view is that although there are plenty of reasons (many of them good reasons) to not go to college anymore, there are always pro and cons to everything; and the pros of getting a college degree outweigh the cons. Johnathan believes the transformative experience you go through will prepare you to thrive in life, no matter what you decide to do.

This is obviously a really debated topic today, so there was plenty for us to dig into. We tried to be as objective as possible in assessing some of the most common reasons people feel a college degree is no longer worth it anymore. We talked about the super high cost of attending, the greed of some of the institutions involved, and how practical/useful the things taught at universities actually are. We even tried to explore our own biases, as two college educated people with graduate degrees as well, we questioned if it is even possible for us to objectively evaluate this topic.

A more complete bio for Johnathan is below:

Johnathan Drayton is a Christian philosopher and an aspiring Lawyer. He Triple majored in college : Philosophy, History, and Political Science. He loves Jesus and enjoys unpacking the Word of God through several different lenses. He has his own biblical podcast called 'The truth of the matter is' with his brother and they believe Christians should always be ready to evaluating how we can use the Word of God to maneuver through life.  Johnathan believes that we live our lives on levels arrive in stages, and it happens in seasons. Therefore, we ought to pursue being like our Lord Jesus Christ every day while having a willingness to learn from others and hear what they have to say.

Mustafa has worked as an investment banker, a diplomat, and pharmacist, and now as an author and coach (https://thepassionmba.com/). He has intentionally chosen to change careers, or be a career shapeshifter, because he believes that is what life is about. As he said it, "we are not on this earth to pay bills and die." It only makes sense to push yourself to try different things and maximize the value you bring to the world.

Not only does Mustafa think it is better for the individual to approach life this way, but he thinks it is better for society. We've gotten too caught up in specialization and it is not our natural state as humans. We are meant to explore, be curious, and experience new things. I don't necessarily disagree with Mustafa's views, but they certainly brought up some interesting questions. If we are not meant to specialize, why does it seemed to have worked so well to advance society? It is an objective truth that everyone is meant to push themselves to have multiple careers in their life? And is the grind it takes to be a career shapeshifter actually worth it?

See below for a more complete bio for Mustafa-

Mustafa is the Founder and CEO of The Passion MBA, a global coaching company that helped hundreds of professionals around the world to find their dream career. Originally from Egypt, he has lived in dozens of countries across 5 continents from the US, the UK, Italy, China, UAE and many others. He's currently building an online platform that envisions helping professionals who are stuck in their career and need to reinvent themselves. He is also the author of “Time to Move On”, that wrote recently to help professionals to bust the common, yet hidden, career myths before they find their dream career. In the past, he's worked as an Investment Specialist at the Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank (AIIB), an Egyptian diplomat in China, Malawi and the United Nations in New York. Prior to that he worked as a pharmacist.

This was probably the most contentious conversation I've had since I've been doing this show. That is somewhat expected given the format change for season 2, but I would honestly love for you the listeners to decide where this conversation broke bad (if at all). I know people that speak in absolutes, use extreme language, and carry an air of certainty can be a trigger for me. Elaine hit on those triggers as she was trying to passionately make her case for why mental health experts should be treated as authorities who can help fix our social and political issues.

What I found super interesting about the discussion was that Elaine had some really insightful and important tools for helping people better understand themselves, their emotions, and their psychological make up; and at the same time I think her emotion, fear, and passion for the topic showcased how hard it can be to actually implement those tools. I tried to have a discussion about that, but either I didn't do a good job of carrying that conversation or Elaine did not want to be questioned in the way I was trying to question her (or maybe both). Either way I still think it was really interesting, even if somewhat combative at times. A big thanks to Elaine for being on and the work she is trying to do.

More detailed bio for Eliane below:

Elaine has been a clinical social worker for 30 years including the Army, which she joined at the age of 42. She's had her own practice for the last 12yrs, but has also worked in hospitals, outpatient clinics and combat zones.

"Changing minds takes more than information and reason. It takes insight, problem-solving and coping skills." She uses a lot of analogies, idioms and 3-step strategies (mantras) that are relatable and useful.

Chet suffers from diabetes and has seen first hand the stigmas that come with this disease. He thinks it is due to a lack of awareness and knowledge, that so many people chastise people struggling with it (especially type 2 diabetes). His belief is that diabetes is unique in this way, where people are comfortable criticizing and judging people for not "being healthier" or "taking better care of themselves." So he is on a mission to try to change that perspective and remove those stigmas.

It was an interesting conversation to learn a bit more about diabetes and how the disease impacts people, both physically and mentally. Maybe even more so though, it was interesting to understand why these stigmas exist-- is there any rationale to them, is it just an unfortunate aspect of human nature, and is it realistic to expect people to raise their awareness on diseases or issues that don't directly impact them?

More complete bio for Chet below:

Chet was the co-founder and president of his own industrial supply company. He was diagnosed with type 1 diabetes in 1981 and has lived with the disease for over 40 years. Since retiring he has started the "Challenge Diabetes Program" where he looks to raise awareness and improve diabetes outcomes for patients through practical perspectives.

My guest, William, creates content and shares his views on self-improvement, social issues, pop culture, and many other topics (https://www.youtube.com/@talknscroll/videos). He came to the show with a strongly held belief around taking ownership/accountability of your outcomes in life. He discusses this often in his content, so we explored this belief and used the issue of sexism/the patriarchy to make it real.

Season 2 of the show is still about questioning, exploring, and seeking to understand different perspectives/beliefs. Through out this episode we tried to better understand the value of taking ownership, how difficult it can be to actually practice, and when, if ever, we are allowed to blame someone else for problems in the world? A big thanks to William for being on as the first guest of season 2 and be willing to question one of his strongly held beliefs in a productive way.

See a more complete bio for William below:

William is an up and coming public speaker, podcaster and content creator (Talk N Scroll). His content focuses primarily on self-improvement through the lens of social commentary and discussing topics around pop culture issues, relationships, sexism, finances, and a lot more. William is also an educator with over 10 years of experience in K-12, college and adult education; and he is a proud veteran of the United States Navy.

I talk about some changes I am making to the show for season 2 and what to expect from the conversations going forward.

I spend a lot of time thinking about suffering. As I work through all of the conversations on this show, it is what I keep coming back to. We live in a world where it is almost all a mystery. If you dig deep enough, nothing really makes sense, at least in the traditional logical sense. The only thing that seems real is pleasure and suffering. We know, logically, viscerally, emotionally, and intuitively the feelings of pleasure and suffering.

This has lead me to a conclusion that the only concrete value to consider is one that tries to reduce unnecessary suffering. There are far too many instances of it in our world and we should be actively trying to reduce it, however we can. That is why this conversation with Jake came at exactly the right time (and is a perfect way to cap off the first season of What's the value?). Jake is writing a book called "The Art of Suffering: A Guide to Deriving Beauty from Life's Inevitable Pain."

Jake believes that life is a great mystery and the best thing we can do is engage that mystery in a "congruent" way. Since we live in unavoidable subjective blindness (i.e., the great mystery), the closest thing to objective truth is being congruent, or being free of internal contradictions. Said another way, Jake approaches life by diving head first into the mystery of life, with full acknowledgement that everything he thinks, feels, and believes is ultimately outside of his control. So he doesn't try to control it, master it, or challenge it; instead he surrenders to the greater intelligence that is the universe; and just goes along for the ride trying to learn and experience as much as he can.

The natural cynic in me spent a lot of time trying to question Jake about this Buddhist like approach. I wanted to understand how you can surrender to the universe when the universe has generated so much horrific suffering? How can we surrender to something that has not given us a solid reason to trust it? Jake and I had a really good discussion about all of this, but maybe the most notable take away was how Jake kept holding the mirror up to me. How all of these thoughts about needing to minimize suffering likely say much more about me (how I was raised, my lived experiences, my genetic make up, etc.) than they do about the universe.

Sean has been playing and creating music for over 30 years. He has spent most of his working life as a self-employed freelancer, playing in a jazz trio at wine bars, editing audiobooks, creating websites, and playing electric guitar with an orchestra. As you'll hear Sean explain, towards the end of the show, he is one of those people where music just made sense to him from a very early age. There is a real magic to it that allowed him to feel some comfort in a world that otherwise seemed impossible to navigate.

Interestingly though, we spent most of the show talking more about his philosophical and scientific views. Sean spoke of acceptance as his most important value, very much in the Stoic sense. He has struggled in his life with anger issues and poor coping mechanisms, so he uses the Stoic approach to try to stop his emotions from controlling him. On script with Stoic philosophy, Sean's goal is to try to separate himself from his visceral reactions, his social conditioning, and his ego so that he can understand the world around him more objectively.

We spent a good bit of time exploring these ideas and trying to understand if there is any shadow side to them. Does an approach that centers on acceptance force you to become cold and dismissive of other people's suffering? Does the utility of Stoicism cause us to devalue the human/emotional aspects of life? We also tried to make sense of why human's need a philosophy like Stoicism to live a better life. Why do we need to learn how to be human rather than just being able to trust our natural instincts?

As often happens, we also spoke about the meaning of life and the existence of a "god." Sean falls into the category that so many of us fall into, where we don't have any strong rational reason to believe there is a meaning to life or to try to make the world a better place-- yet we feel compelled to do so anyway. He spoke about not wanting to be a nihilist, even if it may seem like the most logical conclusion. Exploring these ideas with someone who is so thoughtful and diverse in their thinking was a real pleasure for me and I hope you all enjoy it as well.

Sandhya is an author and anti-oppression consultant with 20 years of community organizing experience. She particularly loves helping organizations get Diversity/Equity/Inclusion teams off the ground. These types of topics are really interesting to me, not only for the obvious reason of how important they are to reduce unnecessary suffering, but also because they speak directly to the complexity of human nature. Trying to understand the root cause of oppression and inequity (which I think is critical to actually addressing the issues) requires you to understand human nature.

This made for a good discussion because Sandhya has tons of practical, hands on experience working with individuals and organizations in these areas. We were able to explore the theoretical concepts as well as the real life implications. She started with "accountability" as her most important value because she believes in impact over intent, or as she put it we should always honor intent but we must acknowledge impact. By that she means that we can't take our hands off the wheel, we can't just assume we are good people, or that because we didn't intend to harm somebody that harm wasn't caused. We have to do the work to see what impact our actions are actually having.

The other thing I really enjoyed about talking to Sandhya is that the conversation covered religion/spirituality, history, philosophy, and psychology. We really tried to look at these issues from all angles to understand them. We talked about power dynamics, racism, if we should care about other people's children as much as we care about our own, black lives matter, and Bacon's rebellion-- just to name a few.

I'll be honest, I am still not sure we as humans are capable of overcoming some of these deep rooted issues that have plagued us throughout history. But it always gives me hope to hear the stories of someone like Sandhya, who is doing the work to bring people together, share their stories, and find ways to focus on what connects us rather than what divides us.

My guest today, Byron, is a great illustration of what makes life so amazing, but also so tricky. He realized at some point, after spending years being overweight, bullied, and lacking self-confidence, that the key to life is to put yourself out there, try more things, and constantly seek growth. He totally transformed himself and his life.

In many ways it is a beautiful story. Byron got healthy, got confident, and built his own business. He is now an author, speaker, and high-performance coach (www.byronmorrison.com), working with CEOs from all across the globe to help them maximize their time, lead with confidence and grow a business without losing their sanity. He did the hard work and he became "successful." He created a life that should allow him to have no regrets.

That is where the tricky part comes in. It is true, that if you are committed, if you adjust your mindset, and if you do the hard work necessary you will see results. But how do you know if those results are better? How do you ensure that you new mindset that is driving you towards growth, isn't also creating stress and tension that stops you from fully enjoying life? How do you know that you aren't just succumbing to societal pressures and conforming to an inauthentic version of success?

Byron had some thoughtful answers to these questions, as we kicked them around. I valued his answers not just because they were logical and addressed some of the concerns I raised, but also because he acknowledged that some of those concerns might be valid. He was super open and transparent about the struggles he still has trying to find balance between chasing his aspirations and living a well rounded life. He talked about the seduction of success and how ironically, in his constant search to minimize regrets, he could easily find himself with plenty of regrets at the end of his life.

I think what makes Byron so qualified to do the work he does, is his consciousness and awareness of all these challenges. He doesn't claim to have the secret answers to life. What he does claim is that there is a tried and true approach to change your life, but part of that approach requires you to constantly reflect to see if the changes are actually making your life better.

My guest today, Tim, has a really diverse and interesting background. He's trained martial arts for most of his life, he's been a successful serial entrepreneur, he's studied under Buddhist monks, and he's now a high performance life coach. He wants to use all of these experiences and learnings to help shift the world into the most inspirational and connected place possible. That is what Tim is about, maximizing potential.

As he put it during the show, humans in many ways are god-like but we don't realize it. We have such an amazing ability to connect, collaborate, and create; but often we get caught up with so much other baggage that we don't take advantage of it. That is why integrity is so important to him. He calls it a "container" value, that allows you to effectively pursue all the other values while still holding you true to what matters most.

We spent a lot of time trying to determine what maximizing potential is really all about. Is it just exciting and fun, is it functional, is it moral, is it divine? Tim has a belief that we all have a purpose that we should be trying to work towards, so that is why we should be trying to maximize potential. So we tried to dissect that "purpose" concept too, to understand what it actually is. Where does our purpose come from, do we choose it or it chooses us, how do we know when we found our true purpose, etc?

As we often do, we got into the realm of subjectivity and nuance. These theories and concepts all sound good in the abstract but what do they actually mean in our day to day life. So to try to make it more real we looked at a recent instance with my son, where it appeared to me the nuance of the situation made it impossible to know for sure how to proceed.

What I appreciated so much about this discussion was the passion Tim had. You could feel it come through at times when he talked about his purpose and the ability for humans to create. I still wish I knew exactly where that passion came from (at a first principle level), but regardless I still aways enjoy experiencing it.

My guest, Matt, recently published a comedic memoir about religious upbringing, "Swept Up: Lessons From the End Times" (https://amzn.to/3I2rqB2). The book includes "tales (and lessons) from church, home-schooling, and a few strange years at a major evangelical university."

This background helps explain his value of "self-honesty, because as Matt put it, he was raised to rely on certainty to guide him through life. From a very young age he was taught about God, heaven, hell, and the other various religious doctrines of Christianity. For a kid like Matt, who from a young age tried to question and understand things, this made life really difficult. He found himself in a constant state of anxiety and stress, worried that any wrong move might lead to his eternal damnation.

Worse yet, as he tried to make sense of it all he found himself with more questions than answers. How could everyone be so certain about this God and these rules we are supposed to follow? Would God really send me to hell if I don't follow all the rules exactly? Why aren't we allowed to acknowledge there are some things we just don't know for sure?

I really enjoyed this discussion with Matt, because so much centered around the question of: what do I do in the face of uncertainty? If I am not sure there is a God, I am not sure what the meaning of life is, and I am not sure if there is a universal moral code to follow--then what do I do? Matt and I tried to work through this and make sense of how we live day to day with all of this uncertainty.

We also spent a good bit of the discussion trying to empathize with those who do completely submit to the concept of God. We even put ourselves in the shoes of a parent or devout follower who feels they do know for sure that God is real and has given us directions to follow. If you truly believe that, what is the right way to live, the right way to raise your children, the right way to talk about God with others?

This was a really fun, engaging, and thought provoking conversation and I thank Matt a lot for opening up so much and sharing his journey.

What I enjoyed about this conversation with Anmol, was the juxtaposition of the personas he seems to have. On the one hand he appears to be the prototypical "finance guy." He is a high end trader, with nice clothes, and helps people make millions of dollars using his specialized investing approach (Learn more about it and his book here- https://preppingforsuccess.com/). Money and returns appear to be his guiding stars and he isn't ashamed about it.

But then, Anmol is also deeply reflective, spiritual, and focused on morality. He realized he had a gift for understanding the psychology of traders and decided to use that to create tools to help others better their lives. He openly admits that most of the work that it takes to be successful can be done by anyone, it is just hard and boring. There is a humility and philosophical mindset that isn't just geared around money and expensive things.

Maybe that has been one of my biggest learnings in doing this show, something I should have known since I was 6 years old-- the whole "don't judge a book by its cover" thing. People, like Anmol, are multi faceted. It is possible to be a hard driving finance professional, who also understands the role of spirituality in your life and desires to serve people beyond yourself. Just because I have preconceived notions of people and want to put them in a box does not mean that is the way the world actually works.

We can only know that though through conversations like these. Only in being curious, probing, and questioning can we allow our minds to put aside our biases and actually understand someone for who they are. I am glad I did that with Anmol, because it allowed me to better understand how he balances these different "personas", what is actually most important to him, how he developed his moral compass, and what it is about trading that makes him feel so alive.

A big thanks to him for being on and letting us peak through his perspective for a bit.

My guest, Josh, and I had a really good conversation about resiliency (his most important value). His life is an example of the rewards you get from being resilient. He's an author, founder and CEO of an AI company (https://inquisio.ai/), Mayor and City Council member, and a veteran of the US Marine Corps (among other things). Josh will be the first to admit though that not all of these things came easy to him and took a lot of persistence, humility, and competitive fire to achieve.

We spent a lot of time during the discussion trying to hone in on some of the key aspects of resiliency, to really try to understand it. We explored where resiliency comes from (is it genetics, developed over time, random, etc.?), why resiliency is so important (are we inherently lazy or selfish and it addresses those issues), why some people don't value resiliency, and lots of other interesting questions about a really important concept.

What I found most interesting about Josh, was that he had a very pragmatic approach to life, but it was rooted in a philosophical perspective that allowed the whole thing to work. He mentioned how his resiliency developed because from a young age he felt compelled and drawn to things that scared him. Whether it be wrestling, spiders, joining the Marines, etc., if something generated fear in him he had to go towards it. He was able to do this because he has an understanding that on a very macro level, fear doesn't matter.

If you take a long enough perspective on life, the universe, humanity, you realize the little blip that is your life is pretty small in comparison. You can almost think of it as two "realms", the universal realm (where fear doesn't really matter) and the individual realm (where we live day to day) where fear seems to matter a lot. Josh has been able to distinguish between these two "realms" and that has allowed him to push through, face his fears, and overcome obstacles that he might not have been able to otherwise.

"Stable mutual actualization" -- that is what my guest, Rocco, is after. He believes with the use of true reason (mature, sophisticated, objective reason) we as humans, have the ability to achieve a stable state, where mutually all of us, can self actualize into what we want to be. Contrast that with the world he sees today, where most people actualize at the expense of someone else. We mostly just follow our base instincts to try to live the best life we can imagine, without acknowledging the fact that our instincts and our imagination are fallible.

If that sounds heavy, I agree. This was a heavy conversation. But I wouldn't say it was abstract or theoretical. In a very logical and pragmatic way, he is trying to figure out how humanity can save itself from itself. As way of background, Rocco is an Australian philosopher, poet, and podcaster (https://eyeswideopenlife.org/). In his words, he has "an unorthodox and autodidactic mastery of human psychology which provides cutting and insightful observations."

If I had to put it simply, Rocco believes he sees things that others don't see. He believes he has a gift to understand humans and the things that plague us, the things that cause unnecessary suffering in the world. He also believes he has a heart that is committed to trying to make the world a better place and an ego that can submit itself to logic and reason (rather than his own personal comfort or happiness).

That all sounds amazing, but as they say "that is why they play the game"-- or that is why we do this show. It was truly thought provoking to probe and challenge Rocco's views to understand what they were made of. We explored a host of assumptions and implications, as well as tried to understand tactically what we can do to try to improve. How do we actually make the world a better place?

A big thanks to Rocco for being on and the work he is doing. Something tells me this won't be the last conversation we have about humanity and our path forward.

Aadil is a friend from Harvard Business School who I've always admired, but at the same time always wondered what made him tick. He's lived an interesting life, being born and raised in Mombasa, Kenya, and then spending most of his adult life studying and working in Europe, America, and Africa. He's been successful as an entrepreneur, a product developer, and maybe most notably as an angel investor focused mainly on emerging markets (with lots of investment back into Africa).

I admired Aadil because I remember in business school he seemed to have a very worldly and sophisticated view of life. It was almost as if he seemed to understand something that most others had not (or at least I hadn't). Life always seems so complex to me and at times almost impossible to figure out how if we are supposed to be good, successful, happy, humble, fulfilled, or whatever else? Aadil seemed to encompass all of these things in almost an effortless way. Those are the exact types of people I want to dig into and question to understand what is underneath it all. Does he really have it all figured out? How does he view life and his reason for being here?

Aadil started off the show talking about his work in angel investing and how in some ways, it started back when he was 6 years old riding in the car with his dad in Mombasa. He remembers a moment when a young, seemingly homeless, child came to their car window asking for help. He wasn't intellectually sophisticated enough to make sense of why this boy, who was the same age as him, was living on the street while he was riding in comfortable in a car; but he did feel a deep sense of unfairness.

Ultimately it led to his value of "leveling the playing field", trying to create products and invest in organizations that help prevent kids like that boy, who didn't choose to live on the street (just like Aadil didn't choose to live in a well off family), from being put in that unfair position. He takes a very pragmatic approach to life, almost like a life hacker (meant as a compliment), trying to bridge his skills, desires, and morals to make the most impact, while living the most enjoyable life he can. Then we did the fun philosophical work of questioning it all, trying to determine if this approach to life made Aadil a good person, a wise person, or a selfish person (or maybe all 3?).

Passion is one of my favorite topics to discuss. Logic is my religion because I understand the power of it, but passion is something that fascinates me on a much more visceral/primal level. I can't fully explain passion but I know how attracted to it I am. I know the feeling I get when I am engaged in something I am passionate about. Maybe my guest today, Jeremy, put it best when he said "passion is the fuel of human energy." By that I think he means it is the thing that allows us to do everything we do in life. For us to be motivated or driven to accomplish anything, we need to have passion in our lives.

As way of background, Jeremy is the founder of Universal Imagination, Inc, a multidimensional research and development organization focused on the passion industry. As part of that, he's invented a new utility designed to help people unlock the full potential of their passion. Before starting Universal Imagination, he worked as a technologist at SpaceX, where he assisted the CIO and helped to reignite the public's excitement for space travel (he also collaborated with Elon Musk on a music video celebrating the company's first successful launch).

At the core of Jeremy's work and view of the world, is this idea that we, as humans, have the opportunity to pursue "conscious evolution." Unlike in our past, where we were driven along by nature and the evolutionary process, he believes we have an opportunity now to "take the wheel" and direct the future evolution of our species. If we can tap into our true passion and do the thing that our soul actually wants to do (vs. what we have to do just to survive), it unlocks a whole new world of human potential and possibilities.

I'll be honest the idea of us "taking the wheel" intrigues and excites me, while at the same time completely terrifies me. As Jeremy and I asked on the show, do we think humans are capable of driving our own evolution? Have we shown throughout history that we have can use that type of power to make the world a better place? This was a truly fascinating and dense conversation about passion and humanity.

I've said this before, but there was a time before I started doing this show where I thought I understood the world. I thought I understood it at such a level that it was reasonable for me to judge or dismiss certain viewpoints as obviously wrong. Whether it be spiritual beliefs, different values, or an aspect of how the world worked that did not directly align with how I thought it worked. Ironically, I would not ask any questions or explicitly challenge the person (I was too much of a people pleaser), but would have just judged them in my head.

I don't know anything for sure, but the new approach I take to life definitely seems to be a lot better one. In this new approach, when I have a guest like Genie on who talks about building the skill to "talk" with animals, I am extremely open to the idea. Who am I to assume that is crazy or impossible or nonsensical? There is so much in this world we don't understand, how could I ever assume I know better? At the same time though, I am also much more comfortable to humbly question the idea to understand it better. I am not afraid to challenge and probe, because I know it is not coming from a place of judgement but rather from a place of curiosity.

So that is what Genie and I did in this discussion. She started with her mission (and the mission of her organization https://www.thehumananimalconnection.org/) to change the way humanity relates to animals. She wants to help people better communicate with the animals and understand that they have emotions, intentions, desires, and opinions. Her hope is that once people do that, it will be much harder to mistreat the animals they interact with.

The way she drives towards this mission is by showing people that it is possible to directly communicate with an animal (through a kind of telepathic connection), if you can enter the right mindset. She told stories of the connections she's made with dogs, cats, sheep, donkeys, horses, and many other animals. Although you may be skeptical, her accomplishments are pretty well documented showing that she has something figured out. The list includes an Emmy award-winning film, a bestselling book (The Human-Animal Connection), the President's volunteer service award for her work with over 4,000 service members/veterans, and her specialty, a therapy program that helps shy and traumatized dogs recover and heal.

If you love animals or just love learning about a new aspect of life that you were not familiar with before, this is a great episode for you. I hope you enjoy it as much as I did.

This is our first go at What's the value? - Business Edition and I thought no better guest to kick it off with than Diane. Diane is the founder and CEO of BizLove (https://bizlove.com/) a strategic consultancy that helps organizations transform from within and express their story to the world. They bridge the disciplines of storytelling and strategy to deliver integrated solutions for businesses.

Not only that, Diane (or "D") is also my former boss. When I first decided to leave my "traditional" job at IBM, I wasn't sure what the next move was going to be for me. Then I stumbled across this company, BizLove, on LinkedIn and was instantly intrigued. There was so much about their mission, culture, and style that felt right to me. Something about the way they blended core consulting and strategy skills with the more artistic, free flowing nature of story telling.

That "blending" and balancing of two, seemingly opposed, concepts came up a lot in my discussion with D. In so many ways, that is what she and BizLove are all about. At the deepest of levels, the value BizLove brings (and the most important value for D) is seeing the true, inherent value in others, seeing them for who they are--all parts of them, and helping them balance it to extract the best version of themselves. That may sound abstract or fluffy, but when you meet D you see that it is very real--and her clients see it too.

Since I know her well, this conversation was also fun because we were able to flow and delve into topics at deeper levels. We talked about why she had such a passion for this work, why she is so good at it, and if she honestly thinks the business world will ever truly value it as much as it should. We also took it a little philosophical, trying to understand the role love plays in the world, understanding masculine and feminine energies, and questioning what it means to be a leader.

I thank D a ton for being on and showing that conversations like this (about philosophy, storytelling, love, harmony, values, etc.) are very relevant and applicable in the business world-- not just to make the world a better place, but to make your organization better as well.

Honesty and integrity are amazing values. When we can tap into who we truly are and are confident enough to share it with the world, it relieves a massive burden. We no longer worry about trying to be who we think we should be, but rather just are who we are. It brings on a feelings of freedom and liberation. But it begs a critical question...how do we know when we are being honest?

That might seem like a silly question, but it is a really critical one. As my guest, Kiran, and I discussed, if you are going to approach life with a deep confidence in your ability to be honest with yourself and others, you better make sure that confidence is warranted. How do you know you are actually being honest with yourself? How do you know your ego isn't deceiving you, so you can take a short cut to that feeling of freedom/liberation?

These are the questions Kiran and I grappled with throughout the show. She was a perfect dance partner too, because she's done a lot of work to to ensure she KNOWS that she is being honest. So it was really interesting to poke, prod, and pressure test that confidence to see what it was rooted in. We even looked at some personal examples, like her own divorce, to see if there were times she lied to herself in the past.

As way of background and context, Kiran is an entrepreneur and advocate for self empowerment, equity, and helping women achieve success and visibility (https://roaringahead.com/). She hosts her own podcast, “You Are Not Invisible After 50" where she focuses on helping women who are over 50 (and also women of color) realize they still have value and purpose in this world (despite how society makes them feel sometimes).

There was a ton of rich philosophical topics to discuss about Kiran's work, so we spent the end of the discussion exploring those. We talked about how hard it is for someone like me (a 39 year old, white male) to understand what it is like to be in her shoes. We also tried to work through the philosophical reasons our society often mistreats or undervalues older women. This was a super thought provoking discussion, so a big thanks to Kiran for being on.

Terry is a writer (https://www.terrybartleywriter.com/) who also teaches and hosts a podcast. His writing focuses on marginalized characters and communities to try and give them more of a voice and a sense of belonging. Given Terry's background, growing up in a poor, single parent home, with ADHD and as a queer person living in West Virginia; he has a deep understanding of what it means to feel marginalized and not fit in. That is why he feels so strongly about giving back and helping others.

I noticed right away how observant and self reflective Terry was, which I guess isn't all that surprising for a writer, but it was interesting to hear how his ADHD played into it as well. He explained how ADHD allows you to think differently, make connections across concepts, and creates a strong need to understand things before you can focus on them. Although it comes with challenges, those traits have served him really well in his life.

Towards the end of the discussion we spent some time talking about his writing as well as his passion for politics and social issues. I'll be honest, I kind of struggled at times to lock down the thoughts/points I was trying to get across, but we had a really interesting discussion about greed, selfishness, and marginalization. Terry has an optimistic view that corporations are starting to realize that it actually benefits them to be more inclusive. He believes the new Black Panther movie is an example of this, where black actors and directors were able to gain notoriety while the studio behind the movie also benefitted with great profits.

The questions we grappled with though, was this really a positive thing? Although it is great, well deserved, and long over due; will it actually solve the problem if it is still rooted in profits and greed. Is the world actually a better place if the powers that be only allow marginalized people to thrive when it benefits them as well. Maybe it is the best we can hope for, but maybe it just perpetuates the same problems in a new way. Either way, I really enjoyed this conversation and getting to learn a little more about Terry's perspective on life.

Anne is a Human Resources leader known for developing new programs/training and improving employee retention and leadership performance (https://donovanhrsolutions.com/). She wants to help employers realize the importance of building trust, respect, and recognition in the work place. She believes it will make for a better employee experience, better results for the organization, and frankly a better world for all of us.

That is what Anne does, but as with most guests I have on this show, the story behind why she does it, how she got here, and what makes her approach life the way she does is even more interesting. Anne was like a lot of people, a successful workaholic, living in NY trying to get ahead. Then as it always does, life happened. She was laid off, began questioning everything and decided to pack up her things and move to Montana. She realized relationships, nature, and facing her fears were far more important than the things she valued before.

The thread that ran throughout this discussion was "trust." That was Anne's most important value and we talked about it from various different levels. We talked about trusting other people, we talked about trusting the universe, and we talked about trusting yourself. For Anne, although there are risks, putting trust out into the world leads to a much richer, more fulfilled life. She has seen it work first hand for her and now she wants to take that experience and help employers realize the power of it as well.

As always, we also spent some time challenging the idea of trust. Particularly in the work place, employers often fear that too much trust will lead to entitlement, laziness, and ultimately a lack of productivity. If we are being honest, that fear is not unfounded, so we discussed how to find the right balance between trust and accountability. At its core the issue of trust comes down to perspective. Are you willing to be optimistic about humanity and have faith that your trust in others will be rewarded; or do you think trusting humanity is ultimately naive and will get your burned?

What a beautiful, thought provoking discussion about truth, faith, and morality. Branch is an author, poet, and storyteller who speaks about choice and consequence, accepting or avoiding personal responsibility, and the power of truth (you can view his work here- https://www.manaopublishing.com/).

What made this discussion so good, was firstly the self reflection Branch has gone through in his own life. As many of us have, he has lived multiple lives in one. He's been a teacher, a corporate salesperson, a business owner, a husband, and now an author/storyteller. Throughout all of it he has taken time to reflect on what he thought, what he believed, and the type of person he was. Through that reflection he's come to some conclusions about faith, God, and truth that now guide his life.

That is second part of what made this discussion so good. Branch has first hand experience and evidence of how faith in God turned his life around for the better. He has studied and explored the ways his faith in God made his life worth living. He has deep conviction in what he believes, but this is not blind faith. It is a faith Branch was open to discussing, examining, and even challenging. We debated the benefits of faith but also the very real dangers and pitfalls of it. We discussed if "God" gave us the tools to ever really know the "truth?" And we questioned if free will can exist in a world controlled by God?

Maybe my favorite line from the conversation was a quote Branch threw out from Bob Dylan-- "You're gonna have to serve somebody; well, it may be the devil, or it may be the Lord, but you're gonna have to serve somebody" This conversation, and I believe our goal in life, is trying to decipher who that somebody actually is?

As always, for those interested in getting more philosophy in their lives or just want to support the cause, please check out my Patreon page- patreon.com/whatsthevalue