Assessment Matters by Valuebase.co

In this episode, we're joined by Pat Alesandrini, Past-President of IAAO and Chief Deputy Property Appraiser in Hillsborough County, Florida. We talk about the growth and usage of artificial intelligence and machine learning, small jurisdictions and “dark store theory”, as well as other new trends in the assessment industry.

We cover:

• Introduction to Assessment Matters podcast 00:00

• Pat’s bio and big ideas 00:35

• Pat’s experience in the building and valuation, economics, and mass appraisal, and more

• Combining Artificial Intelligence (AI) and Machine Learning (ML) with geospatial analytics, expansion of IAAO internationally, and difficulties of smaller assessment offices

• AI and ML, Chat GPT, LLM — what are the big opportunities, especially in assessment, in the next 5-10 years? 3:52

• “The sky's the limit” — automating mundane and repetitive work

• Being cognizant of data quality and effect on software

• Important for people who don’t use it to see that it’s not magic, but rather a tool

• Pushing IAAO to set up standards for AI usage

• Struggles of smaller jurisdictions 12:18

• Tend to be understaffed and underpaid

• Lack good training and good data

• Low market activity and small catchment areas

• “Dark store” theory 18:53

• How deed restrictions are used by commercial property owners to lower commercial property assessments across the board

• Factors assessors must be cognizant of when determining market value

• How it started, established legal precedent, and relevant legislation

• Advice for newcomers 25:18

• Education — classes, training programs

• Experience — learn on the job

• Exposure — finding out more about various other different industries, property uses, etc.

• How to contact Pat 31:04

• Phone: +1 (309) 453-6684

• Email: drini57@outlook.com

In this episode, we're joined by Marco Kuijper, Strategy Developer at The Netherlands Council for Real Estate Assessment. We talk about the role of oversight agencies in Netherlands property taxation, the growth of AI, as well as new trends in the assessment field.

We cover:

• Introduction to Assessment Matters podcast 00:00

• Marco’s bio and big ideas 00:35

• Marco’s background in auditing and assessment oversight

• What will AI do to the assessment industry?

• Will taxpayers trust the results of AI valuation models?

• What effect will AI have on the industry in the short term? 3:00

• The Dutch property tax, assessment, and appeals system

• More AI model usage for evaluations

• AI used both by taxpayers for appeals, as well as by municipalities in response

• Collecting geographic data with AI 4:39

• Detecting houses and maintenance level from imagery

• LLM: useful for back office tasks

• Modeling in the Netherlands 5:59

• Some use AVM, others use clustering techniques (comparatively old-fashioned)

• Gradual move towards machine models is expected — AI already exists in other parts of daily life

• Tolerance studies of the oversight agency 8:02

• Same ranges used as the IAAO Standard on Ratio Studies (COD/PRD 10-15%)

• Agency practice — not a part of legal standard

• Comply/explain principle

• Decentralized system — more education needed from the top

• Netherland property taxation in the next ten years 10:31

• Shifting more towards municipal taxation

• Land Value Tax proposed — good in theory, but must overcome various practical challenges and constraints

• Advice to newcomers 13:04

• Be adaptable to change

• Learn best practices from other countries and jurisdictions

• How to contact Marco 14:50

• marco.kuijper@waarderingskamer.nl

In this episode, we're joined by Matt Woolford, Equalization Director at the Allegan County Government in Michigan. We talk about data standardization and assessment practices in Michigan, “Zillowification”, and new trends in the assessment field.

We cover:

• Introduction to Assessment Matters podcast 00:00

• Matt’s background and big ideas 00:23

• Matt’s experience in government, equalization and assessment

• Allegan County: a growing agricultural community

• Proposition A (1995) in Michigan 2:53

• Standardizing data in CAMA systems across Michigan county governments 5:15

• “Zillow Talk” and Zestimates: how AI and other data-driven innovations are changing the industry

• Ensuring methods of data collection and analysis are authoritative and credible

• State has recommended standards — needs more adoption

• Valuation methodology in Michigan 8:31

• Establishing “true cash value”

• Cost, income (best-use), and sales-comparison approaches all used

• Cost approach challenges: lack of comprehensive data

• Land valuation: vacant land sales vs abstraction methods

• Michigan’s requirements and metrics for equalization assessment 12:41

• COD and PRD, vertical and horizontal equity

• State audit process once every 5 years

• Equity becoming more important in the future with growing geospatial and statistical proficiency among assessors

• Advice for newcomers 15:36

• Understand the importance of good data

• Be aware of emerging technologies

• Better data, better models, better skills in the age of “Zillowification”

• How to reach Matt 17:27

• mwoolford@allegancounty.org

In this episode, we're joined by Field Director Christie Wright and Senior Property Assessor Cy Bailey at the Property Valuation and Review division in the State of Vermont. We talk about Vermont’s assessment and reappraisal processes, getting caught up on best practices, as well as other new trends in the assessment field:

We cover:

• Introduction to Assessment Matters podcast 00:00

• Background and big ideas 00:23

• Christie and Cy’s backgrounds in property evaluation and assessment, data collection, and fee appraisal

• Core duties of the oversight agency in Vermont 2:01

• Administering split tax codes

• Guiding and overseeing elected listors (assessors)

• Setting parameters and ensuring compliance

• Equalization tolerance 

• Getting newcomers up to speed 5:34

• Not a quick fix — three years minimum for proficiency

• Evaluation methodology 7:06

• Sales vs market-adjusted costs

• What is the most difficult thing to teach? 8:15

• Technology and equity metrics

• Market swings since COVID-19 10:22

• Technology and assessment in Vermont 11:04

• Labor-saving inspection technology (e.g. EagleView, Pictometry)

• Landscape-specific challenges (e.g. foliage)

• Getting caught up on GIS and mapping

• Education and training opportunities for assessors in Vermont 14:55

• Advisors for direct contact

• Grant money to pay tuition and expenses for classes and certification (e.g. from IAAO)

• What does Vermont do well? 17:21

• User-friendly appeals process

• New trends and changes in Vermont 20:12

• Legislative changes: Act 68

• More consistent assessment and reappraisal

• Advice for newcomers 22:48

• Learning by doing: being involved in the beginning to the end of a full reappraisal process

• How to reach Christie and Cy

• Christie.Wright@vermont.gov

• Cy.Bailey@vermont.gov

In this episode, we're joined by Chief Assessment Officer James Aros Jr. from the Philadelphia Office of Property Assessment to talk about Philadelphia’s valuation methodology, technological advancements, as well as making one’s career in the assessment industry.

We cover:

• Introduction to Assessment Matters podcast 00:00

• James’ background in real estate and assessment 00:35

• How has the industry changed over the past two decades? 1:38

• Modernization via technology

• Assessment becoming less of an “accidental profession”

• Selecting talent 4:34

• The right candidate can be molded and trained

• COVID-era real estate values and market movements 6:33

• Post-COVID normalization

• Philadelphia’s valuation methodology 8:44

• Sales vs income vs cost

• Residential vs commercial models

• Determining land values for cost approaches 10:12

• Difficulties in areas with sporadic and irregular sales (and therefore data)

• The industry’s direction in the next ten years 11:19

• Uncertainties regarding Machine Learning and AI

• Leveraging the power of technological advancement

• More frequent assessments

• Advice for newcomers 12:58

• Take—or make—every chance to learn as much as possible

In this episode, we're joined by Daniel Anderson, Founder and Principal Owner of Data Cloud Solutions, a Woolpert Company. We talk about flagship product Mobile Assessor, the power of productivity-enhancing technology, as well as other new trends in the assessment field.

We cover:

• Introduction to Assessment Matters podcast 00:00

• Daniel’s background in assessment and computer science 00:35

• The invention of Mobile Assessor and its later wider adoption

• How technology such as the iPad changed the industry

• Traveling a lot for work while growing a software company

• Flagship product: Mobile Assessor 6:25

• A synchronization service that can attach to any database

• Increasing productivity by increasing efficiency of data entry

• Route optimization — solving the “traveling salesman problem”

• Being able to adjust to dynamic conditions and changing priorities

• Machine Learning (ML) and AI — the next step? 13:04

• Extracting information from imagery to better utilize assessor time

• Recent growth in research and technology in ML and AI

• Error recognition vs change detection

• Advice to newcomers 17:04

• Being open to change in both technology and operating procedure

• Supporting open data standards to support innovation and competition

• How to reach Daniel 19:55

• https://woolpert.com/products/dcs-a-woolpert-company/

• daniel.anderson@woolpert.com

In this episode, we're joined by Director of Property Assessment Services Lloyd Funk in Manitoba, Canada, to talk about embracing new best practices, building trust with the public, as well as other new trends in the assessment field: 

We cover:

• Introduction to Assessment Matters podcast 00:00

• Lloyd background 00:35

• Tight labor markets and hiring in the industry 1:48

• Tech trends 2:33

• Tablet software instead of paper

• Using data science and AI

• Assessment in Manitoba 3:53

• The diverse geography of the province

• Full market value assessment and details

• Challenges for specific 

• Strengths and/or special challenges in Manitoba 7:03

• Messaging to taxpayers 7:47

• The importance of fairness, confidence, and professionalism

• Getting new staff up to speed 9:15

• Evaluating talent 10:27

• Industry trends 11:18

• AI and advanced data visualization (Power BI)

• Increasing transparency and trust with the public

• Advice to newcomers 12:11

• Embracing change and innovation

In this episode, we're joined by Personal Property Supervisor Bryan Shuck at the Assessor’s Office in Cleveland County, Oklahoma to talk about assessment practices for the budding commercial marijuana industry, getting up to speed with new and best practices, as well as other new trends in the assessment field:

We cover:

• Introduction to Assessment Matters podcast 00:00

• Bryan’s background 00:35

• Bryan’s experience in construction and assessment

• Bryan’s IAAO education session: “Making Marijuana Personal” 2:52

• Assessing different types of commercial marijuana facilities

• Key assets to look out for and approaches to valuation

• Looking out for what is on—and what is not on—the commercial tax return

• History of medical marijuana legalization in Oklahoma

• Current state of the marijuana industry

• Getting up to speed with commercial marijuana as an assessor 20:03

• Learning from other state governments

• Learning through immersion (e.g. industry conferences)

• Advice for industry newcomers 23:01

• Embracing change and new technology

• How to reach Bryan 26:06

• Email: bshuck@okco14.org

In this episode, we're joined by Assessor John Wilson of King County, Seattle to talk about the future of commercial versus residential real estate, the power of aerial imagery, as well as other new trends in the assessment field:

We cover:

• Introduction to Assessment Matters podcast 00:00

• John’s background 00:35

• Derrick’s experience in broadcast journalism, government, and assessment

• The importance of property taxation/assessment in funding local government

• How has the field changed in the last 10 years? 2:04

• Unexpected exogenous shocks: global pandemic, inflation

• Overheated housing market

• Commercial vs residential — how WFH has changed the market

• The future of commercial real estate 4:58

• Downward trend

• The difficulties of commercial to residential conversions

• What can we do about housing affordability? 6:12

• Identifying opportunities for new housing to address immediate needs

• Streamlining housing permitting and construction

• New building techniques and products

• Derrick’s IAAO panel: “See More From the Air” 8:33

• The benefits of aerial imagery: accuracy, efficiency

• Comparing aerial vs ground observation

• Identifying potential novel land uses

• Assessing damage from natural disasters

• Competition in the aerial imagery industry 11:14

• Balloons, drones,  etc.

• Improved cost-effectiveness 

• Other technologies 12:18

• Artificial Intelligence (AI) and Machine Learning (ML)

• Data beyond evaluation and assessment 

• Advice for industry newcomers 14:29

• Parting advice 15:21

In this episode, we're joined by Derrick Niederklein, Deputy Director at MIPS (Multi-County Information and Programming Services) in Lincoln, Nebraska to talk about Nebraskan assessment practices, building good teams and work cultures, as well as new trends in the assessment field:

We cover:

• Introduction to Assessment Matters podcast 00:00

• Derrick’s background 00:35

• Derrick’s experience in assessment, management, and team-building

• Assessment practices and ratio study standards Nebraska 2:56

• Nebraska being a market value and full disclosure state

• What is COD (Coefficient of Dispersion)?

• What is PRD (Price Related Differential)?

• Approaches to assessing agricultural land

• How has the industry changed in the past 20 years? 5:42

• The widespread adoption of technology by assessors

• The availability of technology to the general public

• Public trust in the era of wild market swings

• Building good teams and work cultures 7:25

• What does a good culture look like?

• What does a bad culture look like?

• Broader meaning crisis — how to get people to feel purpose?

• Bridging generation gaps between industry veterans vs newcomers

• Handling conflict 15:12

• Patience and understanding

• Identifying deeper problems and grievances

• Avoiding overlaps in duty

• How egos mess up work cultures

• The future of the assessment industry in the next two decades 19:34

• “Hard” skills: Technological advancement

• “Soft skills” — the human element of explaining valuations to taxpayers

• Advice for industry newcomers 20:30

• Investing in yourself

• Delivering and receiving constructive feedback 21:45

• How to reach Derrick 22:48

In this episode, we're joined by Board of Review Commissioner Samantha Steele (and her Chief of Staff, Dan Balanoff) from Cook County, Illinois to talk about being an elected official, best practices, as well as new trends in the assessment field:

We cover:

• Introduction to Assessment Matters podcast 00:00

• Samantha’s (and Dan’s) background 00:23

• Samantha’s background in real estate brokerage, real estate valuation, tax representation, and elected office

• Important innovations 6:19

• Working with old CAMA systems and moving towards upgrades

• Automation to handle high volume (of appeals)

• Moving towards automatic evaluation models 9:08

• The need for more consistently updated data

• Difficulties and challenges when properties are not consistently (re)delineated and reassessed

• What is uniformity and why is it important? 11:46

• Vertical vs horizontal equity

• Long term plans 13:30

• Property appraisal is a long-term project

• Developing a better culture for the office

• What drives the high number of appeals in Cook County? 15:10

• Attorney requirements

• Profit in the appraisal industry — bad incentives and lack of transparency

• Overcoming a history of corruption and lack of government trust in Illinois

• Parting advice 17:05

• Getting involved with IAAO

• How to reach Sam

19: Monica Williams — Assessing in 2023 and Beyond

In this episode, we're joined by Deputy Chief Assessment Officer Monica Williams from the Philadelphia Office of Property Assessment to talk about being a public servant in the assessment field:

We cover:

• Introduction to Assessment Matters podcast 0:00

• Monica’s bio 00:51

• Falling into an “accidental career”

• 20 years in various assessment tracks

• How has the assessment field evolved over the past two decades? 2:26

• Inclusion of technology

• More attention paid to what assessors do; discussions on transparency

• Last few years of property markets 4:05

• Explosively rising prices

• Challenges explaining how this affects property assessment

• What does transparency mean? How is it an industry challenge? 5:11

• Internal vs External

• Explaining what people are paying for

• Explaining the difference between assessment and taxation

• Big career lessons 7:56

• Getting started by being willing to learn

• Best practices in the Philadelphia Office of Property Assessment 9:02

• Encouraging personal and career growth

• Cultivating and picking talent

• The future of Philadelphia 12:11

• Contending with the fact that housing affordability can get worse for both renters and buyers

• Possible solutions

• Monica’s IAAO panel: “Assessing in 2023 and Beyond” 14:10

• Workforce transition — aging assessors

• Data and transparency — privacy concerns

• Integration of technology and assessment — pros and cons

• How has Philadelphia changed? What is “gentrification” and its implications? 18:06

• The pros and cons of neighborhood improvement and change

• “Gentrification” can be both good and bad

• What should those in power do?

• Educating people on the why and how of change and its impacts

• Parting advice 19:42

• How to reach Monica

In this episode, we're joined by Jim McCathern, Vice President of Sales & Business Development Tax & CAMA Vertical at Catalis to talk about being a technological leader and new trends in the assessment field:

• Jim’s background 0:01

• Introduction to Assessment Matters podcast

• Jim’s background in real estate valuation and architecture

• The founding story of Patriot Properties 2:32

• Difference in technology back in the 1980s

• The development of CAMA (Computer Assisted Mass Appraisal) systems as a way to scale up assessment

• Where the CAMA market is going 4:23

• Speed of technological development vs government change

• Transition towards cloud-based computing and automation

• Transparency and availability of information

• The fragmentation of the CAMA market 8:49

• Variation of property assessment and taxation by state

• Patriot Properties’ expansion from Massachusetts to the rest of the US

• How to think about growth 9:28

• Horizontal (more states) vs vertical (more cities within states)

• Strategy

• Advice for assessors buying a new CAMA system 10:25

• Having an open mind about workflow

• How to adapt to new technology

• Accommodating existing vs introducing new practices

• Parting advice 12:39

In this episode, we're joined by Assessor Russell Hill of Washington County, Arkansas to talk about being a leader and new trends in the assessment field:

We cover:

• Russell’s background 0:01

• Introduction to Assessment Matters podcast

• Russell’s background in real estate valuation.

• What is needed from leadership to better and more efficiently keep up with rapid growth?

• Russell’s bio and big ideas for the future 2:31

• Entering office as an elected official without much technical experience

• How government can succeed in serving business

• Experience working in freight brokerage

• How being a church pastor can prepare someone to be a leader

• Additional challenges beyond growth 7:44

• Managing a growing staff in the midst of a global pandemic

• Adapting to new technology

• Be willing to try new things, experiment, and “fail forward”

• Big opportunities in the next decade in the assessment field 8:40

• Artificial Intelligence (AI) as a source of unknown factors and potential capabilities

• How generational turnover and technology will impact the assessment field

• In office vs remote vs hybrid working 9:51

• How local constituent needs affect workplace arrangements

• Trends towards more things being done on the Internet

• Learning on the job, especially for new leaders 11:10

• How can someone who doesn’t have as much context/experience in assessment, do a good job?

• Understanding the difference between staff versus leadership, and what leaders need to do

• What happens when something goes wrong?

• The importance of communication

• Best practices 18:54

• The importance of mission statements and core values

• How to use education effectively?

• Training new leaders and setting people up for success

• Parting advice 24:33

• Be a student

• Be ready for change — embrace it, be a part of it, create it!

We cover:

Why composite modeling is important?

(1:37)How to deal with automated valuation models?

(3:37)How do you measure the value of a property?

(5:54)How do you define market value?

(7:48)Which models did you use in the paper?

(11:52)Central tendency composition approaches.

(13:42)Scoring the model scores.

(15:52)How do you measure the accuracy of the estimates?

(18:38)The importance of local knowledge for spatial models.

In this episode, we're joined by Director of Property Tax Division for South Dakota, Wendy Semmler. We discuss:

Wendy’s background. (0:01)The role of the Director of Property Taxes at the state level. (1:44)Biggest challenges they are facing right now. (3:11)What kind of education do you want to get? (5:08)What is the agricultural productivity system? (6:56)East and west of the state. (8:22)Advice for the new sales ratio portal. (10:08)Advice from his mentor. (12:39)Wendy’s parting advice for anyone coming to South Dakota. (14:41)

In this episode we cover: Jake’s background.0:01 Challenges of working in the real estate industry. 1:19 How do you keep people from getting complacent?3:32 Commercial Land Valuation. 5:38 How do you determine the value of a property? 8:07 Where do you think the assessment field is headed? 10:46 How do you recruit talent into a field like valuation? 13:49 Working from home. 15:58 Advice for someone just coming into the industry.

In this episode, we're joined by Jennifer Byrd, Director of the Property Tax Division for the State of Alabama. We cover: The importance of technology, the future of data aggregation for states, and the role state departments play in assessments.

In this episode, we're joined by North Texas real estate professor (and former appraiser) Marc Moffit to discus: The three approaches to getting a value, the easiest and most difficult approaches to teach. How the government side of appraisal evolve over time? The importance of having a process. and a whole lot more.

In this episode, we're joined by Bexar CAD Chief Appraiser Michael Amezquita, to discuss Transparency, Technology and the Future of Appraisal. This episode was recorded live at TAAD.

Introduction to the show.

0:01 What is the summer system and how did it work?

2:17 Valuing the value of a lot.

5:00 What can we learn from the somers system?

7:22 The importance of valuing land first.

9:53 How interest rates affect the real estate market.

14:48 The difference between land and capital.

16:49 How much is a house worth?

18:43 How population growth affects property prices.

20:51 How Detroit used to be a model city.

In this episode, we talk with Coy Johnson, Deputy Chief appraiser at Kaufman CAD, Texas. We cover his journey from finance to mass appraisal. How the CAD determines the value of a property. How technology has changed the landscape of appraisal and valuation over the last decade. The difference between horizontal and vertical equity. Educating property owners about taxes and advice for people new to mass appraisal.

In this episode, we're joined by Luc Hermans to discuss the property tax system in the Netherlands, aAdvice for getting up to speed in modeling. advice for getting up to speed in modeling, the importance of accuracy and accuracy and a whole lot more. 

In this episode, we're joined by Mr. Eddie Creamer, the Property Appraiser in St. Johns County Florida. Eddie is a former banker, and a native Floridian. He is  an accountant by education. Eddie spent 35 years in the community banking arena. He started and ended up as CEO of a bank before he retired, and then ventured into the assessment business as a Property Appraiser in Florida and St. John's County. In this episode we cover how to improve processes within an assessment office, how to approach customer service, and instill a culture of excellence in your office. 

In this episode, we're joined by Webb CAD, Texas appraisers  Ismael Ramirez and Cesar Navarro to discuss the challenges of finding a good cap rate, valuation methodology and how it evolved, the challenges of working in assessment and appraisal, what makes people successful in the field of appraisal, and advice for new to the industry.

In this episode, we're joined by ValueBase Chief of AVMs Paul Bidanset to discuss his career, the role of modeling and regression in assessment and valuation, and best practices of assessment everywhere.

Paul is a geospatial real estate/property data scientist with international expertise in automated valuation models (AVMs) and computer-assisted mass appraisal (CAMA) model implementation (creation, testing, research, and staff training) and quality control to promote efficient, accurate, and equitable valuations. Noteworthy projects include:

• United Kingdom Residential AVM Oversight (2022 – Present)
• Romania Nationwide Residential AVM Feasibility Analysis (2022 – Present)
• Moldova Nationwide Residential AVMs (2021 – Present)
• Estonia Nationwide AVM QC (2021)
• Ukraine Nationwide AVM Implementation Oversight (2020 – 2021)
• Cook County (includes Chicago), IL Commercial Valuation QC (2019 – 2021)
• Detroit, MI Land Valuation QC (2019)
• Milwaukee, WI Residential and Commercial AVMs (2018 – 2020)

I've recently co-authored a book (released by the International Association of Assessing Officers) called "GIS for Property Tax and Assessment Professionals": https://www.amazon.com/GIS-Property-Tax-Assessment-Professionals/dp/0883292432

In this episode, we're joined by Herman Perkins, Head of Growth at ValueBase. We discuss the biggest challenges assessors face today, the biggest opportunities you see for assessors over the next decade, and the technological trends that will drive the field.

In this episode, we are joined by NYU Stern Professor Arpit Gupta to talk about the State of commercial real estate, and what the year ahead looks like.