The Moral Science Podcast

Working with Kohlberg and Teaching for Excellence with Anne Colby

An episode of The Moral Science Podcast

By Amber Cazzell
A psychologist who is endlessly fascinated with human morality interviews experts who dedicate their careers to understanding it.
More places to listen

More places to listen

Naturalism and the Convivial Social Life with Owen Flanagan
Dr. Owen Flanagan is the James B Duke professor of philosophy and Neurobiology at Duke University, where he co-directs the Center for Comparative Philosophy. Recently, he was also a Rockefeller Fellow at National Humanities Center, as well as a Berggruen Fellow at the Center for Advanced Study in the Behavioral Sciences at Stanford University. Dr. Flanagan has written and edited 13 books, including The Really Hard Problem: Meaning in a Material World published in 2007, and The Geography of Morals published in 2017. His distinguished work concerns the philosophy of mind, moral psychology, and comparative ethics. In this podcast, we discuss the relationship between naturalism and moral realism. APA Citation: Cazzell, A. R. (Host). (2019, October 15). Working with Kohlberg and Teaching for Excellence with Anne Colby [Audio Podcast]. Retrieved from Full transcripts available at:
October 15, 2019
Working with Kohlberg and Teaching for Excellence with Anne Colby
Dr. Anne Colby is a consulting professor at Stanford University’s Center on Adolescence. Prior to her appointment at Stanford, she directed the Henry Murray Research Center at Harvard, and was a Senior Scholar at the Carnegie Foundation for the Advancement of Teaching. She has authored and co-authored eleven books, including Rethinking Undergraduate Business Education: Liberal Learning for the Profession, which received the 2013 Frederic W. Ness Book Award. Dr. Colby’s research has focused on moral development, purpose, and the ways in which education can foster excellence through disciplinary practices, each of which we discuss in this episode. Full conversation transcript available at: APA citation: Cazzell, A. R. (Host). (2019, October 8). Working with Kohlberg and Teaching for Excellence with Anne Colby [Audio Podcast]. Retrieved from
October 8, 2019
Moral Exemplars and Beyond-the-Self Purpose with William Damon
Dr. William Damon is a Professor of Education at Stanford University, where he directs the Center on Adolescence and is a senior fellow at the Hoover Institution. His research has received numerous grants and awards from several Foundations and trusts, including the John Templeton, Andrew Mellon, and Spencer Foundations. He has authored and co-authored fifteen books on the topics of child development, education, morality, and purpose, including Greater Expectations which received the Parent’s Choice book award. Throughout his distinguished career, he has focused on a number of topics related to moral development. In this podcast, we discuss his research with moral exemplars, his interests in the development of purpose and its effects, as well as his forthcoming book on the development of purpose in his own life. Full transcript available at: APA citation: Cazzell, A. R. (Host). (2019, October 1). Moral Exemplars and Beyond-the-Self Purpose with William Damon [Audio Podcast]. Retrieved from
October 1, 2019
Development of Prosocial Motivations with Gustavo Carlo
Dr. Gustavo Carlo is the Millsap Endowed Professor of Diversity and Multicultural Studies in the Department of Human Development and Family Science at the University of Missouri. He is also the director and co-director of two centers there: The Center for Family Policy and Research and the Center for Children and Families Across Cultures. In 2017, he was named a University of Missouri Top Achiever and he has received numerous awards for his excellence in mentorship. Dr. Carlo’s research concerns prosocial and moral development, and how cultural variables are related to that development. In particular he’s researched positive development among Latinx youth. In this episode, we discuss different types of prosociality, and which cultural features are associated with developing different prosocial motivations. Full Interview Transcript available at: APA Citation: Cazzell, A. R. (Host). (2019, September 17). Development of Prosocial Motivations with Gustavo Carlo [Audio podcast]. Retrieved from
September 24, 2019
Ethical Pluralism and Multicultural Exchanges with Richard Shweder
Dr. Richard Shweder is the Harold H Swift Distinguished service professor of Human Development in the University of Chicago’s Department of Comparative Human Development. Dr. Shweder’s anthropological work has received numerous awards, including the John Simon Guggenheim Fellowship, the American Association for the Advancement Socio-Psychological Prize for his essay, “Does the Concept of the Person Vary Cross-Culturally?” and, in 2016, the Lifetime Achievement Award from the Society for Psychological Anthropology. His fieldwork in Orissa, India led to his pluralistic theory of the “big three ethics,” which influenced the later development of several psychological theories, including Moral Foundations Theory.  His recent work concerns the accommodation (or lack thereof) in multicultural exchanges in Western Liberal Democracies. Today, we discuss his three ethics and the challenges of moral multicultural exchanges. APA Citation: Cazzell, A. R. (Host). (2019, September 17). Ethical Pluralism and Multicultural Exchanges with Richard Shweder [Audio podcast]. Retrieved from
September 17, 2019
Mind Perception and the Trouble with Moral Platypuses with Kurt Gray
Dr. Kurt Gray is an associate professor of Psychology at the University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill. There, he directs the Mind Perception and Morality Lab—a research lab dedicated to understanding who we interpret to have minds, and why it matters. Specifically, Dr. Gray and his research team examine how mind perception influences moral judgments. In this podcast, we discuss his research, his new Center for the Science of Moral Understanding which aims to reduce social and political polarization, as well as his most recent book co-edited with Jesse Graham, The Atlas of Moral Psychology. NOTES: 3:00 - Book, Illusion of Conscious Will  8:30 - Paper, humans don't like AI making moral decisions 12:10 - Paper, the moral agency and patiency of moral exemplars 16:00 - Paper, helping veterans get hired 18:45 - Center for the Science of Moral Understanding 28:55 - Paper, meta-analysis of replicating incidental disgust 39:00 - The Atlas of Moral Psychology 41:05 - Yoel Inbar's paper, Applied Moral Psychology 51:20 - Book, The Mind Club 51:40 - Book, The Mind's I
September 10, 2019
The Evolved Nest with Darcia Narvaez
Dr. Darcia Narvaez is a professor of psychology at the University of Notre Dame. There, she directs the Evolved Developmental Morality Lab, where her program of research concerns how provision of physical, emotional, and social resources early in life bear upon the development of ethical behavior. This early physical and social environment, the so-called “evolved nest,” and it’s effects are the topic of our conversation today. Her recent work and book, Indigenous Sustainable Wisdom: First Nation Know-How for Global Flourishing, concerns understanding and integrating indigenous wisdom for how to live a good life. In addition to her scholarly works, Darcia also writes a popular blog for Psychology Today, called Moral Landscapes. Notes: 7:00 - Hunter-Gatherer Childhoods book 13:30 - Chapter about the "evolved nest" 17:40 - Last Child in the Woods Richard Louv 22:00 - article and supplemental materials for assessing the evolved nest 31:20 - chapter about losing Darwin's moral sense 33:30 - Western Illusion of Human Nature book Marshall Sahlins 35:37 - Neurobiology and the Development of Human Morality 40:22 - The Continuum Concept Jean Liedoff 41:32 - 42:00 - Brain-based Parenting Daniel Hughes 44:00 - Attachment Parenting International, Holistic Moms Network 47:12 - Free Range Parenting Lenore Skenazy 49:30 - Moral Landscapes Psychology Today blog 52:00 - Relational developmental systems article by Willis Overton 1:00:30 - Enlightenment Now Steven Pinker
September 3, 2019
Fairness, Equality, and Research Framing with Mark Sheskin
Dr. Mark Sheskin is an assistant professor of social sciences at Minerva Schools at KGI and an instructor in the cognitive science department at Yale university. He’s also the co-leader of the Child Lab, where he’s working to harness the power of the internet to conduct studies with children online. In this podcast, we discuss his research focus on the origins of fairness motivations, how studies of prosociality are affected by research framing, as well as his involvements at Minerva, Yale, and the Child Lab. Notes: 8:00 - Tinbergen's four questions 11:00 - Paper on the slow emergence of fairness behaviors 19:50 - Article--is the Marshmallow test explained by reliability of authority figures? 27:06 - Vox Marshmallow article that "tells us s'more" 32:30 - The Child Lab 36:40 - Paper about income inequality 48:30 - Kim Scott's LookIt Lab 54:00 - Paper about best practices for online studies with children 1:02:00 - Building the Intentional University book
August 20, 2019
Aristotelian Virtue Ethics with Blaine Fowers
Dr. Blaine Fowers is a professor at the University of Miami’s Department of Education and Psychological Studies, and is the founder of the Network for Research on Morality. His research focuses on Aristotelian Virtue Ethics and character development, with an emphasis on application of the rich theory that sets Aristotelian ethics apart from other ethical traditions. He is the author and coauthor of five books, including Frailty, Suffering, and Vice: Flourishing in the face of human limitations. In this podcast, we discuss his scholarship, as well as his purpose and plans for the Network of Research on Morality. Notes: 10:20 - Angela Duckworth's popular book about grit 13:00 - Blaine's book, Frailty, Suffering, and Vice: Flourishing in the face of human limitations 18:50 - Paper about the four-quadrant matrix of goods 28:30 - For deeper conversation about moral realism, check out this episode of MSP 42:30 - Paper suggesting that social desirability measures are correlated with honesty-humility 51:50 - Blaine's presentation, "Science is an Inherently Moral Enterprise" 57:00 - All talks from the 2019 Network of Research on Morality Symposium
August 6, 2019
The Case for Moral Realism with Brent Slife
Dr. Brent Slife is an Emeritus professor of Psychology at Brigham Young University and is the Editor-in-chief of the APA’s Journal of Theoretical and Philosophical Psychology. He has been honored with numerous awards for his outstanding research and teaching career and in addition to these many achievements, he’s authored and co-authored 9 books. Today, we discuss his most recent book, co-edited with Stephen Yanchar, titled Hermeneutic Moral Realism: Theory and Practice. Notes: Dr. Slife's book, Hermeneutic Moral Realism in Psychology: Theory and Practice Relationally-oriented girls' boarding school, Greenbrier Academy Svend Brinkmann's book, Psychology as a Moral Science Dr. Slife's Presentation, "Is Social Justice Justified?" Alasdair MacIntyre's After Virtue & narrative work Charles Taylor's book, Sources of the Self: The Making of the Modern Identity
July 23, 2019
The Making of Moral Foundations Theory with Jesse Graham
Dr. Jesse Graham is the George S Eccles chair in business ethics, and an associate professor of management at the University of Utah. He’s most known for his work with Jonathan Haidt in developing Moral Foundations Theory—a theory that basic moral foundations guide a wide-array of behaviors and ideological preferences, political ones. In this podcast, Jesse and I talk about his experience in developing the theory, what theoretical challenges it faces, and his work to apply MFT to behavioral nudging. 3:10- The Emotional Dog paper by Haidt 7:10- Joseph & Haidt 2004 paper  8:30- Paper on Libertarian foundations 10:00- Paper about criteria for foundations 13:00- Moral Foundations Questionnaire, scale development paper 14:50- Steven Pinker's New York Times Op-ed 16:00- Joshua Greene's 2001 "trolley-ology" paper 30:30- Morteza Dehghani researches use of foundation-language 34:40- Larry Nucci critiques MFT for its relativism 37:00- Martha Nussbaum's book critiquing disgust-based moral action 46:00-  Example articles that call disgust "irrelevant" or suggest it taints judgments: Schnall et al., 2008; Zhong et al, 2010 CORRECTION: study of "illegitimate power distributions" was NOT based on MFT, as Amber had said. 50:00- Feinberg & Willer papers on nudging conservatives and liberals 53:30- John Jost critique of MFT legitimizing conservative foundations 55:50- Jesse's response normative MFT claims 1:00:00- Jesse's vaccine hesitancy paper
July 9, 2019
"Stupid Rules": Social Domains and Moral Development with Larry Nucci
Dr. Larry Nucci is an adjunct professor in the Graduate School of Education at UC Berkeley, an emeritus professor of Psychology at the University of Illinois, Chicago, and the editor-in-chief of the journal Human Development. His research pertains to the social and moral development of children, and he’s worked to apply social domain theory to moral education programs. In this podcast, Larry and I discuss his work with Elliot Turiel to flesh out Social Domain Theory against the backdrop of Richard Shweder’s three ethics, and the later emergence of Moral Foundations Theory. Notes: For more information and resources about Larry Nucci and Social Domains theory, visit this website. Richard Shweder's three ethics. Teaching resources and recommended readings can be found at: Jonathan Haidt's study of morality in Brazil. Articles that address the relativism of Moral Foundations Theory (in addressing rape of Yazidi women): Character as a Developmental System, Recovering the Role of Reasoning in Moral Education to Address Inequity and Social Justice. 
June 25, 2019
A Brief History of Moral Psychology with Sam Hardy
Dr. Sam Hardy, an associate professor of psychology at Brigham Young University, describes the branches of moral psychology that emerged in the wake of Lawrence Kholberg's theory of cognitive moral development. Notes:  Video about Kholberg's theory of moral stages Richard Shweder's three ethics Moral foundations theory website Jonathan Haidt's "The emotional dog and it's rational tail: A social-intuitionist approach to moral judgement" Moral identity approaches: Blasi's moral identity, Colby & Damon's book on moral exemplars, Larry Walker's lay conceptions of morality Turiel & Nucci's Social Domain Theory Dan Lapsley's book, Moral Psychology Simpson effect example: paper of relationship between conscientiousness and neuroticism
June 11, 2019
Make your own podcast for free with Anchor!