Artists on the Verge
By Ema Katrovas
Artists on the Verge Nov 13, 2023
55: Ep. 10: How Camp Explains Taste (ft. a final review of The Sudbury Devil) | An Opera Singer and a Comedian Walk Into a Bar
Welcome to another conversation from the high/low art divide between opera-singer-turned-experimental-performer Ema Katrovas and comedian-and-TV-writer-turned-novelist Nicholas Anthony.Ā
I was going to put the film the Sudbury Devil (whose creator I interviewed on this podcast) to rest - but then I stumbled across Susan Sontagās essay āNotes on Campā and I realised ācampā kind of explains EVERYTHING about how Nick and I (i.e. a comedian and an opera singer) had very different reactions to this film - namely why Nick HATED it and I didn't.
So what does ācampā have to do with certain corners of YouTube, the piece of outsider cinema called the Sudbury Devil, and how might it explain why two people might have different reactions to a particular work of art?
Timestamps:
00:00:00 Intro
00:00:02 Conversation about why Nick didnāt like the Sudbury DevilĀ
00:34:44 Interlude and disclaimer to the creators of the film (āthe opposite of love isnāt hatred, itās indifferenceā)Ā
00:35:66 Understanding Susan Sontagās āNotes on CampāĀ
00:53:58 Why camp MIGHT explain Nickās dislike of the Sudbury Devil (disclaimer: this features Emaās hot take on camp which she may revise)Ā
01:08:40 So what is camp? (and final thoughts on Sudbury Devil)Ā
01:12:59 OutroĀ
My interview with Andrew Rakich on the Sudbury Devil: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/artistsontheverge/episodes/52-A-Friendly-Debate-With-Andrew-Rakich-On-His-Epic-Micro-budget-Film---The-Sudbury-Devil-e2euolq
Links:
- šššš¼ Artists on the Verge website: ā ā ā https://artists-on-the-verge.com/ā ā ā
- š Instagram: @artists_on_the_verge
54: Ep. 9: Trip to New York Pt. II: What is it like to Sleep No More? (first impressions of immersive theatre recorded at Scallywags Irish Pub) | An Opera Singer and a Comedian Walk Into a Bar
53: Ep. 8: Trip to New York Pt. I: High Art About Poor Artists (recorded at the Met Opera House) | An Opera Singer and a Comedian Walk Into a Bar
Welcome to another conversation from the high/low art divide between opera-singer-turned-experimental-performer Ema Katrovas and comedian-and-TV-writer-turned-novelist Nicholas Anthony.Ā
This episode is the first half of a two-part series recorded in New York - in this case, directly at the Metropolitan Opera.
We recorded this episode sitting in our seats in the Family Circle, during both intermissions and right after the end of aĀ performance of Zefirelliās classic production of Pucciniās La Boheme, one of the most popular, if not the most popular, operas of the last century and, even better, one that tells the story of aspiring artists.
The cast we heard on January 8th at the Metropolitan Opera:Ā
Conductor: Marco ArmiliatoĀ
Mimi: Elina Stikhina
Rodolfo: Stephen Costello
Musetta: Kristina Mkhitaryan
Marcello: Adam PlachetkaĀ
Schaunard: Rodion Pogossov
Colline: Krzysztof BÄ czyk
Benoit/Alcindoro: Donald Maxwell
Met Opera ChorusĀ
Link to the recording I used as "illustration footage":Ā https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_1OtRt0_ho
Cast of the recording (though you don't get to hear most of them):
MimƬ: Mirella Freni Rodolfo: Luciano Pavarotti Musetta: Annarita Taliento Marcello: Lucio Gallo Schaunard: Pietro Spagnoli Colline: Nicolai Ghiaurov
Conductor: Daniel Oren
šššš¼ Artists on the Verge website: https://artists-on-the-verge.com/
š Instagram: @artists_on_the_verge
52: A Friendly Debate With Andrew Rakich On His Epic Micro-budget Film - The Sudbury Devil
Watch on YouTube here:
youtu.be/FXYgbsub4gg
Rent or Buy the Sudbury Devil here: atunsheifilms.vhx.tv/products/the-sudbury-devil
00:00:00 - Intro - why I'm doing this interview
(TALKING ABOUT THE FILM'S CONTENT)
00:01:41 - What does it mean to shock with your work?
00:09:20 - Ema's feminist critique
00:25:27 - The historical basis of Puritan devil worship
(END OF SPOILERS - TALKING ABOUT INDIE CREATING)
00:31:17 - Are YouTubers Indie or Mainstream?
00:39:22 - The YouTube branch of arts funding and why Andrew chose it
00:44:11 - Andrew's update to his optimistic video about YouTubing
00:55:24 - Andrew's advice for dealing with a crowdfunded platform
01:01:00 - The critics are always right
01:03:57 - The Co-Op model of film funding
(I don't usually use title generators - but this AI-generated title was just hilarious)
šššš¼ Artists on the Verge website: artists-on-the-verge.com/
š Instagram: @artists_on_the_verge
51: A Conversation with William Deresiewicz, Author of Death of the Artist
Comedian-and-TV-writer-turned-novelist Nicholas Anthony and opera-singer-turned-experimental-performer Ema Katrovas talk to William Deresiewicz, author of /Death of the Artist: How Creatives Struggle to Survive In the Age of Billionaires and Big Tech/. This book argues that artists have a harder time making a middle class living today than in previous generations - but is this true? And how does it effect the art and entertainment thatās made today?
Here is the video version on YouTube: https://youtu.be/p3YIytFgvAY
Timestamps might be off by about 30 seconds: 00:00:00 Intro: The Two Stories Told About Being an Artist 00:01:04 Why did /Death of the Artist/ need to be written now? 00:02:31 But hasnāt it ALWAYS been hard to be an artist? 00:05:03 How is all this unique to artists? Arenāt a lot of middle-class professions in danger? 00:06:08 What is Art with a capital āAā and why is it under threat? 00:09:06 The TV Renaissance is Over (Amending the section on TV in /Death of the Artist/) 00:11:06 Is interviewing 140 artists really representative of the arts industry? 00:15:56 Is it helpful for individual artists to look at the issues of the arts industry ? 00:17:58 Is art really āboringā now? And why does William Deresiewicz not watch movies in movie theatres? 00:21:16 Blockbusterisation and the loss of the creative middle class 00:25:15 But isnāt there actually a glut of good content now? (going back to the article āWeāre all Bored of Culture Nowā) 00:32:22 Isnāt journalism a form of art? And is it not subjective? (i.e. Nick pushes back) 00:34:04 Blaming wokeness for boring art 00:43:12 What if youāre depressed after reading /Death of the Artist/? Is there an actionable takeaway? 00:45:35 How do you reconcile pouring your youth and talent into an arts education that has no chance of leading to a satisfying career? How to repurpose creative skills? 00:52:06 What does the gamification of internet popularity say about the value of art? How does the internet lower the time and skill put into creative endeavours? 00:58:12 The 1000 true fans model - does it work? 00:59:07 āEveryone is an artistā: The Romantic myth that led to the Silicon Valley myth / David Graeber and Nicka Dubrovskyās essay āAnother Art Worldā 1:03:50 The lifecycle of an artist and how artists are discouraged as children 1:06:32 Saying goodbye (jazz clubs and experimental theatre shows weāre going to see) Links to stuff we talk about: The Death of the Artist: https://us.macmillan.com/books/9781250125514/thedeathoftheartist Article āWeāre all Bored of Cultureā: https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/arts-letters/articles/bored-of-culture-william-deresiewicz Article āOn Not Drinking the Kool Aidā: https://salmagundi.skidmore.edu/articles/434-on-not-drinking-the-kool-aid šššš¼ Artists on the Verge website: https://artists-on-the-verge.com/ š Instagram: @artists_on_the_verge
50: Ep. 7: āWe tell ourselves stories in order to liveā (ft. The Beatles and the Avant Garde) | An Opera Singer and a Comedian Walk Into a Bar
Welcome to another conversation from the high/low art divide between opera-singer-turned-experimental-performer Ema Katrovas and comedian-and-TV-writer-turned-novelist Nicholas Anthony.
For this end-of-the-year episode, Nick and Ema decided to talk about The Beatles and their influence on a few pieces of āhigh artā: new journalist Joan Didionās essay āThe White Albumā and avant garde singer Cathy Berberianās covers of Beatlesā songs. They also briefly talk about American composer Ned Roremās essay āThe Music of the Beatlesā. Their starting point is a 2021 documentary by Peter Jackson, Get Back.
Nick and Ema circle around the question: Were the Beatles exceptional, lucky, or both? Does one need opportunity or even fame to create oneās best work? Is trying to tell a story about the Beatles, or any other iconic artist, that answers these questions even useful?Ā
Music excerpts from this episode:Ā
- Revolution 9 from the Beatlesā White Album (1968)
- Gavin Bryars' āJesusā Blood Never Found me Yetā(1971)
- Cathy Berberianās cover of āSheās Got a Ticket to Rideā (1977)Ā
- Cathy Berberianās Stripsody (1966)Ā
Things mentioned in the episode (in order of appearance):
- āNow and Thenā (new Beatlesā song): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Opxhh9Oh3rg
- Deresiewiczās essay āWeāre All Bored of Culture Nowā: https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/arts-letters/articles/bored-of-culture-william-deresiewicz
- Get Back, the Beatles documentary by Peter Jackson (it didnāt come out ālast yearā like we said but in 2021): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Beatles:_Get_Back
- Bernsteinās lecture on the Beatles: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v32U0mjGz6g
- Rick Beatoās music channel: https://www.youtube.com/@RickBeato
- Joan Didionās book of essays āThe White Albumā: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_White_Album_(book)
- Ned Roremās essay āThe Music of the Beatlesā: https://jdsalas.files.wordpress.com/2019/07/article-the-music-of-the-beatles-.pdf
- Susan Sontagās āNotes on Campā: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Notes_on_%22Camp%22
- Collection of academic essays on Cathy Berbarian: https://www.routledge.com/Cathy-Berberian-Pioneer-of-Contemporary-Vocality/Karantonis-Placanica-Verstraete/p/book/9780367669294
Ā Links:
- šššš¼ Artists on the Verge website: ā ā ā https://artists-on-the-verge.com/ā ā ā
- š Instagram: @artists_on_the_verge
49: Ep. 6: A Comedian Goes to High Art World | An Opera Singer and a Comedian Walk Into a Bar
Welcome to another conversation from the high/low art divide between opera-singer-turned-experimental-performer Ema Katrovas and comedian-and-TV-writer-turned-novelist Nicholas Anthony.
On Nickās last night in Prague, Nick and Ema went to see the world-premiere of a contemporary opera by Richard Braxton, Trillium X, at the DOX Center for Contemporary Art in Prague. They recorded this reaction that same night.
Some things mentioned or not remembered:Ā
- Anthony Braxton: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Braxton
- Ostrava Days: https://www.newmusicostrava.cz/en/ostrava-days/about-festival/
- Petr KotĆkās composition I took Aderol to attend: Many Many WomenĀ
- Patricia Barber: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patricia_Barber
- The image of the opera house Ema mentions comes from the book The Gilded Stage: A Social History of Opera : https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/gilded-stage-daniel-snowman/1020670873
- Leonard Bernsteinās Candide: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Candide_(operetta)
- The librettist of Nixon in China (which premiered in 1987): Alice GoodmanĀ
Links:
- šššš¼ Artists on the Verge website: ā ā https://artists-on-the-verge.com/ā ā
- š Instagram: @artists_on_the_verge
48: Ep. 5: The Wild West of Technology (ft. Death of the Artist - again) | An Opera Singer and a Comedian Walk Into a Bar
An Opera Singer and a Comedian Walk Into a Bar is a segment of the Artists on the Verge podcast which features conversations from the high/low art divide between comedian and TV writer Nicholas Anthony and your host Ema Katrovas.
In this episode Nick and Ema attempt to finish reading the chapter on the film industry from William Dereziewitsās Death of the Artist. They also talk about some real-life stories from trying to make it in the film and TV industry and quite a bit about YouTube and the small YouTube creator strategy, including a detour on the canceling of YouTuber Lindsey Ellis. They also talk a lot about technology and mind control, among other things.
Some things mentioned which merit citation:Ā
- Duplass brothers book /Like Brothers/: https://www.randomhousebooks.com/books/535098/
- Sizzle for My Girlfriendās a Doll (the project that didnāt quite make it into the Sundance lab):Ā https://vimeo.com/175526344
- Documentary about making Apocalypse Now: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hearts_of_Darkness:_A_Filmmaker%27s_Apocalypse#:~:text=Hearts%20of%20Darkness%3A%20A%20Filmmaker's%20Apocalypse%20is%20a%201991%20American,directed%20by%20Francis%20Ford%20Coppola.
- Coffeezilla (investigative journalism YouTube channel): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coffeezilla
- Everyday Astronaut (YouTube channel about rockets) : https://www.youtube.com/@EverydayAstronaut
- Czech dancer Yemi who was selected to go to the moon: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=coG6kDB9pzc
- Contrapoints (YouTuber): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ContraPoints
- PhilosophyTube (YouTube channel): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abigail_Thorn
- Lindsey Ellis: https://www.youtube.com/@LindsayEllisVids
- Lindsey Ellis' investigative journalism piece on the Hobbit movies: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTRUQ-RKfUsĀ
- Contrapoints essay on Canceling: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjMPJVmXxV8
- Lindsay Ellis cancelling: https://www.nbcnews.com/pop-culture/pop-culture-news/former-youtuber-lindsay-ellis-says-s-learning-live-trauma-canceled-rcna35389Ā
- The art anthropologist we donāt mention by name: Ellen DissanayakeĀ
- Cambridge Analytica documentary: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Hack
- The Priestās Children (the Croatian comedy Nick would like to adapt): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Priest%27s_Children
- Article about the Israeli show Shall We Kiss and the Czech version Až po uŔi (that Ema participated in translating): https://medium.com/warnermediaent/hbo-europes-original-series-head-over-heels-and-when-shall-we-kiss-now-available-a2040b2bdb1a
- Exporting Raymond Documentary: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exporting_Raymond
- Mr. Beast: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MrBeast
- Elisabeth Gilbertās TED talk: https://www.ted.com/talks/elizabeth_gilbert_your_elusive_creative_genius?language=en
Links:
- šššš¼ Artists on the Verge website: ā https://artists-on-the-verge.com/ā
- š Instagram: @artists_on_the_verge
47: Artist Portrait No. 25: Melissa Watkins (writer)
Melissa Watkins is a writer, mostly of non fiction and science fiction. Sheās also one of the most truly cosmopolitan people you'll ever meet. Originally from the US, she spent a substantial portion of her life first in the UK then in South Korea, putting into practice her specialisation in multiculturalism through non-colonial lenses in a multitude of ways in both corporate and academic spaces. She decided to return to the US after the pandemic which ended up being an eye-opening experience, one which becomes a major theme of the interview. The other major themes of the interview emerge from the host's first conversation with Melissa, about the internet and AI as it pertains to artists. Some links:
- Melissa's blog Equal Opportunity Reader: https://equalopportunityreader.com/
- Melissa's article "A Repat's Guide to Boston": https://statesider.us/repats-guide-to-boston/
- For other publications by Melissa a good place to go is the "about" section of her blog: https://equalopportunityreader.com/about/
The music track for this episode is Alsad suugaa eej by the Earthling vocal troupe (which Melissa sings in): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lTqLrthvKQ
*(Apologies for background noise due to the host being post-illness and having to suck on a lozenge to keep from having coughing fits.)*
- šššš¼ Artists on the Verge website: https://artists-on-the-verge.com/
- š Instagram: @artists_on_the_verge
46: Ep. 4: Controversial Subjects (and Reading Death of the Artist) | An Opera Singer and a Comedian Walk Into a Bar
An Opera Singer and a Comedian Walk Into a Bar is a segment of the Artists on the Verge podcast which features conversations from the high/low art divide between comedian and TV writer Nicholas Anthony and your host Ema Katrovas.
In this episode, Nick and Ema start reading the chapter on the film and TV industry in Death of the Artist (a book they discussed in the last episode after meeting the author) - which sets them off on some controversial subjects, including women in the film industry, with mixed results (Ema gets something like feminist revenge when she expresses her oddly strong distaste for the movie The Social Network.)
Some things we mention which merit citation:
- The Death of the Artist by William Deresiewitz: https://us.macmillan.com/books/9781250125514/thedeathoftheartist
- Mr. Beast (in case you donāt understand what Nick means by āMr Beastificationā):Ā https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MrBeast
- The Social Network: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Social_Network
šššš¼ Artists on the Verge website: ā www.artists-on-the-verge.comā
š Instagram: @artists_on_the_verge
45: Snippet No. 16: We Need a More BORING Definition of "Artist" (ft. my Medium article)
This is an audio version of an article I wrote arguing against using the phrase "everyone is an artist."
Read the full article here: https://medium.com/@ema.katrovas/we-need-a-more-boring-definition-of-artist-4b4aa9f76832
- šššš¼ Artists on the Verge website: https://artists-on-the-verge.com/
- š Instagram: @artists_on_the_verge
44: Ep. 3: Arguing About Death of the Artist | An Opera Singer and a Comedian Walk Into a Bar
An Opera Singer and a Comedian Walk Into a Bar features opera-singer-turned-experimental-performer Ema Katrovas, talking to comedian-and-TV-writer-turned-novelist Nicholas Anthony. They have conversations from across the high/low art divide with the goal of being honest about what a life centring art - high or low - actually looks like. Nick and Ema recorded this episode directly after attending a talk by William Deresiewitz, author of Death of the Artist: How Creatives Struggle in the Age of Billionaires and Big Tech. Links to stuff we talk about:
- William Dereseiwitz - The Death of the Artist: https://us.macmillan.com/books/9781250125514/thedeathoftheartist
- Network effect: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_effect
- Tangerine (movie shot on iPhones): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tangerine_(film)
- Nebula (creator-led alternative to YouTube): https://nebula.tv/
- The installation Ema worked on for the Muzeum of Literature in Prague was called Abaceda. There is no link - you would have to go to the Muzeum of Literature of Prague: https://www.muzeumliteratury.cz/en/
- OpenSea: https://opensea.io/
- The American royalties-collecting institution: https://www.ascap.com/
šššš¼ Artists on the Verge website: ā www.artists-on-the-verge.comā
š Instagram: @artists_on_the_verge
43: Ep. 2: The True Hollywood Experience | An Opera Singer and a Comedian Walk Into a Bar
Welcome to episode 2 of this segment of the Artists on the Verge podcast called an Opera Singer and a Comedian Walk Into a Bar. It features your host, opera-singer-turned-experimental-performer Ema Katrovas, talking to comedian-and-TV-writer turned-novelist Nicholas Anthony. They have conversations from across the high/low art divide with the goal of being honest about what a life centering art - high or low - actually looks like.Ā
In this episode itās story time - Nick goes down the memory line of his ātrue Hollywood experienceā complete with agents and writersā rooms and making sizzles. Nick and Ema also talk about the NACAs (National Association for Campus Activities), something Ema never heard of before but which apparently launches some performance careers in the US. They talk about the beautiful netherworld of regional entertainment scenes and about the disappearance of the Hollywood middle-class, and do a little detour on the 80-year-old mime living behind a curtain who used to be Nickās housemate.
Credits:
- Recorded in Prague, Czech Republic, in July 2023
- Featuring: Nicholas Anthony and Ema Katrovas
- Recorded and edited by Ema Katrovas
- Theme song is "Stars" by Janis Ian (performed by Ema Katrovas and mixed to sound like a bar)
Stuff we talk about:
- The NACAs (National Association for Campus Activities): https://www.naca.org/
- The regional talent agency Nick worked for: https://www.glberg.com/
- The Post Post Apocalypse (a FunnyOrDie series Nick starred in): http://www.nicholasanthony.com/blog/the-walking-dead/
- My Girlfriendās a Doll (sizzle for Nickās project): https://vimeo.com/175526344
- Unlikely Assassins (sizzle/pilot for Nickās project): https://vimeo.com/269707372
Podcasts Links:
- šššš¼ Artists on the Verge website: https://artists-on-the-verge.com/
- š Instagram: @artists_on_the_verge
42: Ep. 1: High/Low Arts Education | An Opera Singer and a Comedian Walk Into a Bar
An Opera Singer and a Comedian Walk Into a Bar is a new segment of the Artists ont he Verge podcast. It features your host, opera-singer-turned-experimental-performer Ema Katrovas, talking to comedian-and-TV-writer turned-novelist Nicholas Anthony. They'll be having conversations from across the high/low art divide with the goal of being honest about what a life centring art - high or low - actually looks like. In this first episode, Nick and Ema end up talking about an artistās education and the different forms it takes on the high and low part of the spectrum. They also talk about the fertile soil which was the open mic at Acme, a Minneapolis-based club where Nick did stand up for the first time, do a little detour on the matriarchs in Ema's family and living under communism, and talk about how sometimes itās necessary to totally reinvent yourself - as Nick and Ema have both done, on some level.
Credits:
Recorded in Prague, Czech Republic, in July 2023
Featuring: Nicholas Anthony and Ema Katrovas
Recorded and edited by Ema Katrovas
Theme song is "Stars" by Janis Ian (performed by Ema Katrovas and mixed to sound like a bar)
Links to stuff mentioned in the conversation:
That Shia la Beouf "just do it" video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-sfG8BV8wU
Acme - the Minneapolis comedy club: https://acmecomedycompany.com/Steve Martin's band Steep Canyon Rangers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steep_Canyon_Rangers
Steve Martin, Born Standing Up: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Born_Standing_Up
Patricia Hampl (the writer who traveled to communist Czechoslovakia): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patricia_Hampl
Patricia Hamplās āmonodramaā which Ema performed in: https://schubert.org/event/spotlight-on-patricia-hampl-writing-my-way-into-music/
"Socialism with a human face": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism_with_a_human_face
The experimental Artist Diploma Ema is doing: https://www.cnsmd-lyon.fr/fr-2/les-formations/un-cycle-professionnalisant
šššš¼ Artists on the Verge website: ā www.artists-on-the-verge.comā
š Instagram: @artists_on_the_verge
ANNOUNCING: Back from break/New Segment Preview/Reels & Shorts
Artists on the Verge is Back from break!
Here is a sneak-peak of a new segment, An Opera Singer and a Comedian Walk Into a Bar.
To follow the shorts/reels on YouTube or Instagram:
YouTube: @ArtistsontheVerge
Instagram: @artists_on_the_verge
šššš¼ Artists on the Verge website: https://onthevergetrilogy.com/ About the host āš¼: www.emakatrovas.com šNewsletter (best way to stay in touch): https://mailchi.mp/45b402876641/artistsontheverge š Become a patron and gain access to "backstage" videos: https://steadyhq.com/en/opera-on-the-verge
41: Snippet No. 15: Scriptlessness: An Underrated Issue Facing Artists (+going on break!)
Watch video on YouTube: https://youtu.be/4O0W4A2l5ds
I learned the term "scriptlessness" recently and realized it's why I started the Artists on the Verge channel. Source: David Graeber's /Bullshit Jobs/ which cites a a paper called "Unrequited Love: On Heartbreak, Anger, Guilt, Scriptlessness and Humiliation" (R. Baumeister, S. Wotman, A. Stillwell.) šššš¼ Artists on the Verge website: ā www.artists-on-the-verge.comā
š Instagram: @artists_on_the_verge
40: Snippet No. 14: I Read a G20 Report on the Creative Economy So You Won't Have To
I was surprised to learn that it wasnāt until 2020 that the G20 held its first Cultural Ministerial Meeting to discuss the importance of the creative sector to the economy and it wasnāt until 2021 that they established the Cultural Working Group, the purpose of which is to address issues relating to the creative economy.
So, what Iām going to read to you today, is a report on the state of the creative industries which was written up for the first Cultural Working Group in 2021 by the Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD).
I have not been able to find any documents on what the three years of G20 discussions on the cultural sector have actually yielded, but will keep an eye on that!
Ā
Link to the full report: https://www.oecd.org/cfe/leed/OECD-G20-Culture-July-2021.pdf
šššš¼ Artists on the Verge website: ā www.artists-on-the-verge.comā
š Instagram: @artists_on_the_verge
39: Snippet No. 13: Reading āThe Arts After Darwin" by Ellen Dissanayake Pt. 2
This is the second part of my reading āThe Arts After Darwin: Does Art Have an Origin and Adaptive Function?ā
In the first part of the essay, Ellen Dissanayake explained why she thinks itās helpful to think of art as an adaptive function and lays out some of the existing hypotheses of how art may have helped us survive, in the Darwinian sense. However, she argues most of the existing hypothesis arenāt really general enough or are skewed by Western notions of what art is. In the second half of the paper, which I read to you in this episode, the author lays out her own hypothesis about the adaptive function of art, which she argues is more universal.
The author, Ellen Dissanayake, is best known for three books on art anthropology: What Is Art For? (1988), Homo Aestheticus: Where Art Comes from and Why (1992) and Art and Intimacy: How the Arts Began (2000). I chose to read āArts After Darwinā, which was published in 2008 as a chapter in a book called World Art Studies, not just because itās a shorter, stand-alone, piece but also because it is general enough to serve as an introduction for someone, like me, who isnāt an anthropologist. It was also published after Dissanayakeās three main books on art anthropology, which means she had completed the bulk of her research into this subject by the time she wrote this ā not to mention that recency is very important when considering academic writing, especially when thereās a scientific aspect to it. Ā
You can read "Art After Darwin" yourself here: http://mail.ellendissanayake.com/publications/pdf/EllenDissanayake_ArtsAfterDarwinWAS08.pdf
Ā
šššš¼ Artists on the Verge website: ā www.artists-on-the-verge.comā
š Instagram: @artists_on_the_verge
38: Snippet No. 12: Reading āThe Arts After Darwin" by Ellen Dissanayake Pt. 1
This is the first part of my reading āThe Arts After Darwin: Does Art Have an Origin and Adaptive Function?ā
The author, Ellen Dissanayake, is best known for three books on art anthropology: What Is Art For? (1988), Homo Aestheticus: Where Art Comes from and Why (1992) and Art and Intimacy: How the Arts Began (2000). I chose to read āArts After Darwinā, which was published in 2008 as a chapter in a book called World Art Studies, not just because itās a shorter, stand-alone, piece but also because it is general enough to serve as an introduction for someone, like me, who isnāt an anthropologist. It was also published after Dissanayakeās three main books on art anthropology, which means she had completed the bulk of her research into this subject by the time she wrote this ā not to mention that recency is very important when considering academic writing, especially when thereās a scientific aspect to it. Ā
You can read "Art After Darwin" yourself here: http://mail.ellendissanayake.com/publications/pdf/EllenDissanayake_ArtsAfterDarwinWAS08.pdf
Ā
*I accidently called the paper an āessayā on the recording, which isnāt the right term for this kind of paper.
šššš¼ Artists on the Verge website: ā www.artists-on-the-verge.comā
š Instagram: @artists_on_the_verge
37: Snippet No. 11: Summary of "Another Artworld" by Nika Dubrovsky & David Graeber + My Reaction
An under-3-minute summary of the three-part essay "Another Artworld" which examines the fraught legacy of "high" art. Also - my take.
This is actually a video episode, though it can also just be listened to. You can find it on YouTube here: https://youtu.be/PaS0CWcMvEI 00:00 Intro 00:31 Summary of "Another Art World" - in less than 3 minutes 03:11 A Different Take on "Another Art World" --- How do you fund this? --- Art as Care --- High Art vs. Popular Art vs. Publicly-Funded Art... all have their issues --- The big question we have to answer before we can change anything! --- What helped me... šššš¼ Artists on the Verge website: ā www.artists-on-the-verge.comā
š Instagram: @artists_on_the_verge
36: Snippet No. 10: Streaming is the Message/Opera Americana (ft. Theorema Review & Experiments in Opera)
This is my honest review of the colossal undertaking that was the TV opera Everything for Dawn by Experiments in Opera. The review was ācommissioned byā Theorema Review, a recently-started multi-lingual journal in which artists review other artist.
Ā
Link to my review in Theorema Review: https://theorem-a.org/2023/06/21/everything-for-dawn-by-experiments-in-opera/
Ā
Link to Experiments in Operaās Everything for Dawn: https://experimentsinopera.com/portfolio-item/everythingfordawn/
Ā
Live reaction to Everything for Dawn w/ Jim Osman:
Episode 1: https://youtu.be/1wP0aKjKfw0
Episode 2: https://youtu.be/Of3OzIDa43A
Episode 3: https://youtu.be/Vw_n4ydRlAE
Ā
Conversation with Jason Cady on Artists on the Verge: https://spotifyanchor-web.app.link/e/zYCdeKnuOAb
šššš¼ Artists on the Verge website: ā www.artists-on-the-verge.comā
š Instagram: @artists_on_the_verge
35: Snippet No. 9: Reacting to "Another Art World" by Nika Dubrovsky and David Graeber (Pt. 3)
We're finally here - at the third installment of reading "Another Art World" by Nika Dubrovsky and David Graeber. Even if you're a new listener, you can start here because in the last segment, the author's promised to finally get to the heart of the matter: What might "another art world" look like?
But ā something happened between the last instalment of the essay, published in November 2019, and this installment from November 2020: the pandemic and the anti policing protests of the summer of 2020. Understandably, the authors felt they had to switch gears ā so this installment of the essay spends quite some time drawing a parallel between the police state and the art world.
Link to the third installment of "Another Art World" in eFlux magazine: https://www.e-flux.com/journal/113/360192/another-art-world-part-3-policing-and-symbolic-order/
My interview with co-author Nika Dubrovsky: https://youtu.be/j9TyYRo0OQQ
Music: Dieter van der Westen: The Balkan Night Train
šššš¼ Artists on the Verge website: www.artists-on-the-verge.com
š Instagram: @artists_on_the_verge
34: Artist Portrait No. 24: Reilly Smethurst (composer, Web III researcher)
This episode is a conversation with composer and Web III researcher Reilly Smethurst - who thinks the internet is just about the worst thing that happened to artists. Is it a pessimistic episode? I actually don't think so.
My take: The fact that the internet does not replace real-life communities and live gatherings around art, and hurts artists by creating global, algorithmically-moderated competition, is an empowering bit of knowledge which I hope inspires listeners to find ways to make art outside the internet and use the internet in smart ways to their advantage.
Reilly and I talk about the strange disbalance between the number of viable career paths for artists and the number of people studying creative disciplines, the absurdities of arts funding, the difference between the Dionysian and Apollonian approach to creating, artificial scarcity, how regulation may be the only answer to the excesses of the online arts market, and Reillyās one actionable solution to the predicament posed by the internet, among other things.
All music in this episode by Reilly Smethurst:
Inheritance (2019)
Uterus (2016)
Organised (2019) Angel (2018)
During the interview, we mention the essay āAnother Artworldā by Nika Dubrovsky and David Graeber. Here are some links:
Ā
My interview with Nika Dubrovsky: https://youtu.be/j9TyYRo0OQQ
Reacting to āAnother Art Worldā Pt. 1: https://youtu.be/ufgK9PJszYY
Reacting to āAnother Art Worldā Pt. 2: https://youtu.be/9QnxN425yyw
Timestamps (add 30 seconds to account for intro):
00:00 Intro
02:28 Arts careers on the decline but more people studying arts
08:32 The problem with electronic music and Reilly's "Apollonian reactionary phase"
20:00 Mocking the arts funding bodies
23:37 Web II and Web III - almost the same and both bad for artists + failures of Audius and OpenSea and the difference between music industry and art industry
40:57 Reilly's advice about how to face a world impacted by the internet
šššš¼ Artists on the Verge website: www.artists-on-the-verge.com
š Instagram: @artists_on_the_verge
About the host āš¼: www.emakatrovas.com
šNewsletter (best way to stay in touch): https://mailchi.mp/45b402876641/artistsontheverge
š Become a patron and gain access to "backstage" videos: https://steadyhq.com/en/opera-on-the-verge
33: Snippet No. 8: Reacting to "Another Art World" by Nika Dubrovsky and David Graeber (Pt. 2)
No time to read academic essays? Well, have no fear, we'll read this one together. "Another Art World" by David Graeber and Nika Dubrovsky examines how we might re-imagine the art world.
Part II of "Another Art World" lays out a hypothesis about how post-industrial ideas of production as well as ideas imbedded in Western thought as far back as Greek myth, unfairly legitimize the existence of curators, art dealers, and art administrators, who safeguard the ONE rule that canāt be broken within the art establishment. If you want to know what that rule is, keep listening. Oh, and that faux āexperimental,ā āboundary-pushingā posture of contemporary art? They argue itās not a bug but a feature, one that benefits those who most profit from art dealing.
Link to text of "Another Art World Pt. 2" in eFlux journal: https://www.e-flux.com/journal/104/298663/another-art-world-part-2-utopia-of-freedom-as-a-market-value/ šššš¼ Artists on the Verge website: https://onthevergetrilogy.com/ š Instagram: @artists_on_the_verge About the host āš¼: www.emakatrovas.com šNewsletter (best way to stay in touch): https://mailchi.mp/45b402876641/artistsontheverge š Become a patron and gain access to "backstage" videos: https://steadyhq.com/en/opera-on-the-verge
32: Artist Portrait No. 23: David Devereux (audio fiction maker, founder of Tin Can Audio)
David (aka Dev) Devereux's story is one of carving out a space of freedom online. A full-time sound engineer by profession, Dev is the founder of Tin Can Audio, a Glasgow-based audio fiction company which has become home to all the strange sounds and stories Dev wants to make.
Community is important to Devās story ā from the community of wonderful voice actors and creators around Tin Can Audio to the online community, which Dev has engaged in interesting ways by opening up the creative process to the public (for example by making an entire audio fiction drama, from script writing to sound editing, live on Twitch.)
Dev and I talk about the origins of and funny stories from the series made under Tin Can Audio, about the more unexpected inspirations for stories from video games to music to popular TV shows, the idea of demystifying the creative process and showing audiences how things are made, and about how much time goes into making something thatās actually good, among other things.
This episode features music from Devās audio fiction (The Tower and Middle:Bellow, respectively) as well as excerpts from the audio fictions Tin Can, Middle:Bellow, The Tower, The Dungeons Economic Model, and Anamnesis featuring the voices of (in order of appearance):
David Devereux
Charlotte Ryder
David Pellow
Katrina Allen
Mark Gallie
Roger Best
Links :
https://daviddevereux.carrd.co/
https://www.tincanaudio.co.uk/
šššš¼ Artists on the Verge website: https://onthevergetrilogy.com/ š Instagram: @artists_on_the_verge About the host āš¼: www.emakatrovas.com šNewsletter (best way to stay in touch): https://mailchi.mp/45b402876641/artistsontheverge š Become a patron and gain access to "backstage" videos: https://steadyhq.com/en/opera-on-the-verge
31: Snippet No. 7: Reacting to "Another Art World" by Nika Dubrovsky and David Graeber (Pt. 1)
No time to read academic essays? Well, have no fear, we'll read this one together. "Another Art World" by David Graeber and Nika Dubrovsky talks about how we might re-imagine the art world. In part one, they introduce the idea of the art world creating artificial scarcity and talk about how this has roots in Romanticism. They also touch on the Proletkult in early 20th century Russia, which was founded on the (Romantic?) idea that "everyone is an artist" and was one of the few real-life attempts to create art communism.
Link to text of "Another Art World Pt. 1" in eFlux journal: https://www.e-flux.com/journal/102/284624/another-art-world-part-1-art-communism-and-artificial-scarcity/ šššš¼ Website: https://onthevergetrilogy.com/ š Instagram: @artists_on_the_verge šNewsletter (best way to stay in touch): https://mailchi.mp/45b402876641/artistsontheverge š Become a patron and gain access to "backstage" videos: https://steadyhq.com/en/opera-on-the-verge
30: True Stories About Funding a Short Film (ft. director Vivian SƤde & producer Eve Tisler)
In this conversation with director Vivian SƤde and producer Eve Tisler we talk about a short film weāve been working on (named Echo and created around the monodrama Sentiment by Juliana Hall and Caitlin Vincent) in order to talk openly about all the work that goes into any creative project, even when things never actually "click" to make the project to happen. We also talk about "women filmmakers," budgets, artists and mental health and how opera on film is gatekept, among other things.
YouTube version (with supplementary images): https://youtu.be/7nKWWPi-pWg A blog post talking more deeply about the EU grant escapade: https://soprano-on-the-verge.blogspot.com/2021/11/was-ist-kunst-on-bureaucracy-and-work.html
Contents (add 30 seconds to accommodate intro):
00:00:00 Intro 00:00:18 The Logline 00:01:29 The First Two Years: From Test Shoot to EU Grant Escapade 00:09:28 New Beginnings: Teaming Up with Vivian 00:13:15 Eve Comes on as Producer 00:13:59 Choosing the Right Collaborators
00:16:27 A Detour with a Czech Producer
00:18:48 Women in the Film Industry 00:24:45 Echo: The Producer's Point of View
00:27:11 What IS a producer, anyway?
00:34:53 Our Estonian Experimental Film Fund Application
00:36:15 The Realities of Short Film Budgets and Paying Your Crew
00:41:21 Women Aging IN to the Film Industry
00:45:48 Artists and Mental Health 00:52:32 The Committee Evaluation of the Estonian Experimental Film Fund 00:58:36 The Particular Difficulty of Funding an Opera Film
01:02:52 Reinventing Opera, the Voice, and the point of making Echo 01:08:23 Final Thoughts (and a Final Plaint About the American Funding System) šššš¼ Website: https://onthevergetrilogy.com/
29: Artist Portrait No. 22: Nika Dubrovsky (artist, founder of the Museum of Care)
Nika Dubrovsky is an artist who believes everyone is an artist.
Originally from Russia, where, after an education in visual arts, she was involved with the cultural underground of the 80s, she immigrated to the United States in 1989, right after the communist regime fell. Interestingly, once in the US, Nika seemed to take up the same position she had under totalitarianism, in circles of cultural critics and activist.
One of Nikaās recent projects is the Museum of Care, the concept of which comes from an essay of the same name which she wrote with her late husband, David Graeber, during the pandemic of 2020. The essay imagines a world in which the office buildings left empty by lockdowns are turned into communal spaces, or Museums of Care, after the pandemic, the way royal palaces were turned into state museums after the French and Russian revolutions. The idea of art, and the place of art and the artist, are important to Nika Dubrovskyās, and for that matter David Graeberās, cultural critique, which is why I wanted to interview Nika for this podcast.
Nika and I talk about the underground art scene in Soviet Russia, the Proletkult, in which everyone is an artist, the idea of direct vs. indirect action, the creation of autonomous zones, like the Zapatista communities or Rozhava, and at the end I ask Nika three questions about her article, co-written with David Graeber, āAnother Art Worldā which critiques art institutions as they exist today ā among other things.
ā¤ļø Time stamps (please add 30 seconds to account for the intro):Ā
03:14 ā Nikaās origins and Samizdat
06:27 ā The Museum of Care
10:50 ā āThe Government is the Government, the State is the Stateā (and meeting David Graeber)
13:29 ā Visual Assembly, the Role of the Artist, Proletkult and how Everyone is an Artist
20:02 ā The War Against the Imagination
23:20 ā Storytelling, Creative Refusal, Schizmogenesis
24:44 ā Technology
26:39 ā Extinction Rebellion and Direct vs. Indirect Ā Action
30:50 ā Taking direct action and autonomous zones
40:15 ā The Mona Lisa and Its Value
42:09 ā Three Questions About Another Art World
42:47 ā A Summary of āAnother Art Worldā
44:17 ā Question 1: Isnāt the internet a social experiment in what happens when everyone can be a creator and, if so, why are there still winners and losers?
01:00:40 ā Question 2: Even if everyone should have the access to the means of producing art, isnāt art also an act of service which requires expertise?
01:12:29 ā Question 3: Why use the word ācommunismā?
š Links:Ā
The Museum of Care website: https://museum.care/
The Museum of Care (article): https://davidgraeber.org/articles/the-museum-of-care-reimagining-the-world-after-pandemic/
David Graeber Institute: https://davidgraeber.org/
Another Art World (essay): https://www.e-flux.com/journal/102/284624/another-art-world-part-1-art-communism-and-artificial-scarcity/
Music:
Dieter van der Westen: The Balkan Night Train
ššš¼š Podcast website: onthevergetrilogy.comĀ
28: Snippet No. 6: Debating Myself About the Internet (ft. my Medium article)
In this Snippet, I debate myself-from-a-little-over-a-year-ago about the internet as it pertains to artists by re-reading and reacting to an article I wrote on Medium called ā5 Ways The Internet is Failing You As An Artists ā And 5 Things You Can Do About It.ā I recorded this in the context of having done some interesting interviews lately but not having time to edit them just yet ā so this is me feeding the beast of an online platform whilst complaining about the very mechanism that compels me to do so. The irony does not escape me.
Here is the original article:
https://medium.com/@ema.katrovas/5-ways-the-internet-is-failing-you-as-an-artist-1eec8b6e3bbb
šššš¼ Website: https://onthevergetrilogy.com/Ā
š Instagram: @soprano_on_the_verge Ā
Ā šNewsletter (best way to stay in touch): https://mailchi.mp/45b402876641/artistsonthevergeĀ
š Become a patron and gain access to "backstage" videos: https://steadyhq.com/en/opera-on-the-verge
27: Snippet No. 5: Experimentation vs. Communication (ft. Theorema Review)
This is my reading an article I wrote for a newly-launched publication called Theorema Review (https://theorem-a.org/). I'm mainly reading it to draw attention to the idea behind the publication, launched a couple months ago by a friend, that of artists reviewing other artists (though I also used my review as an excuse to ponder experimental vocal music history and experimentation vs. communication in art.) Lots of John Cage and Cathy Berberian in the this one!Ā
Link to the article (including footnotes and sources): https://theorem-a.org/2022/12/08/anaphora-by-michael-edward-edgerton/
During my reading I play Felicita Brusoniās rendition of Michael Edward Edgertonās Anaphora available in full here: https://youtu.be/dgkiWUgNEdA
26: Bonus: Anniversary Livestream (clean audio version)
This is the audio from the anniversary livestream I did on January 13th, 2023. I fixed some of the audio issues from the livestream so it's a bit easier to listen to.Ā
You can also watch the original livestream here: https://youtu.be/gGUW5q1IIDI
Livestream schedule:Ā
Vivian SƤde (director and screenwriter, co-host) - 19:00 - 20:30 CET (1pm-2:30pm EST) Ā 1
9:20 - 19:40 CET (1:20-1:40pm EST) - Jason Cady Ā (composer, co-founder of Experiments in Opera) and Christoph Ogiermann (composer, improvisor) Ā
19:50 - 20:10 CET (1:50-2:10pm EST): Elena Floris (violinist, actress at Odin Teatret) Ā and Felicita Brusoni (vocal experimenter) Ā
20:10 - 20:30 CET (2:10-2:30pm EST): Darja Lukjanenko (visual artist and communicator) and Helena Mamich (psychiatrist and singer) Ā Ā
Omar Shahryar (composer of music for and by children, co-host) - 20:30 - 21:20 CET (2:30-3:20pm EST)
20:40-21:00 CET (2:40-3pm EST): Kate Gale (writer, founder of Red Hen Press) and Richard Katrovas (writer, ex-poet, father of the host) Ā
21:00 - 21:20 CET (3-3:20pm EST): Cassandra Kaczor (classical-composer-turned-pop-music-artist) and DeyiÅ GƶrgĆ¼lĆ¼ (singer of Ottoman music)
šššš¼ Website: https://onthevergetrilogy.com/Ā
š Instagram: @soprano_on_the_verge Ā Ā
šNewsletter (best way to stay in touch): https://mailchi.mp/79f46429dcce/operaontheverge
š Become a patron and gain access to "backstage" videos: https://steadyhq.com/en/opera-on-the-verge
25: Snippet No. 4: Can contemporary art / theater / music still be original?
This is a Snippet in which I ask myself why it seems so hard to be original in the field of contemporary art/theater/music and possibly introduce you to the term āflameout,ā coined by anthropologist David Graeber.
The snippet is also available with images/video on YouTube: https://youtu.be/h0eBr6l0BsM
Link to David Graeberās lecture (very recommended): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCF-8OQj0RE
David Graeberās website: https://davidgraeber.org/
The Institute for Experimental Art (co-founded by Graeber): https://theinstitute.info/
Full Artists on the Verge episode with composer Jason Cady (the one I quote at the end): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNOaqOmRl1w
ā¤ļøMore about this podcast: onthevergetrilogy.comĀ
ā¤ļøInstragram: @Soprano_on_the_verge
24: Artist Portrait No. 21: DeyiÅ GƶrgĆ¼lĆ¼ (singer of Ottoman music, founder of Evden Musique)
DeyiÅ GƶrgĆ¼lĆ¼ was 9 years old when she swore off music. She was 30 when she decided to take it up again. So, what makes someone refuse music for 20 years?
DeyiÅ grew up in Turkey as part of the Alevi Bektashi community. In fact, her name, DeyiÅ, is the name for a type of Alevi spiritual music. But, in the mid-90s, as a child, she lived through one of the flareups of the Kurdish-Turkish conflict. The tension surrounding this conflict, which started way back in the early 70s, meant that her father, a trumpetist for the Turkish army, forbid her from singing Alevi songs, since Alevi culture is fundamentally pacifist and therefore anti-military. It wasnāt until she moved to France, as an adult, that she felt she could sing again and, eventually, founded an ensemble called Evden with viola dāamore player Isabelle Eder and flautist Marie Ploquin. They perform a kind of fusion between European classical music and Ottoman music ā and just to give you an idea of the vastness of Ottoman music, DeyiÅ sings in Ladino, Turkish, Greek, Assyrian, Armenian, and Arabic among other languages.
DeyiÅ and I talk about Alevi culture and the cem gathering, which DeyiÅ likens a to jam session, about the vast world of Ottoman music, about the meaning of the word Evden, the name of her ensemble, about a song DeyiÅ is writing for the women of Iran, and about one problem shared by music and baklava, among other things.
Evdenās Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/evdenmusique/
Musique:
Evden Musique - YeniliÄe DoÄru (text by Rumi) (live): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0TnNth-1tM
Erdal Erzincan - BuguĢn Bize Pir Geldi: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24Yfvj6e0t0
Evden Musique - Evden Musique - Ī£ĻĪæ āĻĪ± ĪŗĪ±Ī¹ ĻĻĪæ Ī¾Ī±Ī½Ī±Ī»ĪĻ (Sto 'pa Kai Sto Ksanaleo): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTriUPjSQQk
23: Artist Portrait No. 20: Helena Mamich (psychiatrist, singer)
Madness. Itās a popular literary and operatic themes, but seldom would you get to talk to an artist who is trained to cure madness.
Helena Mamich leads a double life: she is both a doctor at a psychiatric ward in Berlin and a soprano spatializing in classical contemporary music. As a singer, Helena has achieved enough even for someone who doesnāt have a parallel life as a doctorā she has premiered numerous works by contemporary composers, recently debuted in a new opera at the Bethanien Theater in Berlin, collaborated with the German band Black Needle noise on a crossover track, and in the year 2019 she won the VeÄernjakova Domovnica prize awarded annually by the VeÄerjni list daily newspaper for the most successful musician of the Croatian diaspora and as if that wasnāt enough, Helena has recently published a book of political haikus in her native Croatian. One of Helenaās big missions is to educate the public about psychiatry and one of the ways she would like to do that is through a short opera based on her experiences as a psychiatrist (sheās already written the libretto.)
Helena and I talk about how psychiatry and classical contemporary music complement each other, how important understanding someoneās culture is in determining whether they have a psychiatric condition, how every discharge letter from a psychiatric ward could be a libretto, as well as one thing Helena says should be taught in conservatories but isnāt.
Helenaās website and blog: https://helenamamic.com/
Helenaās Instagram: @helenamamich
Music (all music on this episode is interpreted by Helena Mamich):
G.Scelsi -Lilitu: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIUhF7EOMxs
Black Needle Noise: https://soundcloud.com/doctordiva/just-one-more-day-nocturnal-vocalise
Gerhard StƤbler: blindflug: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GyY7ub_TYU&t=69s
Ivana Lang: Macji pir (Cat's wedding): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0p-GdFrgJjw
šššš¼ Website: https://onthevergetrilogy.com/
22: Artist Portrait No. 19: Felicita Brusoni (vocal experimenter)
Meet Felicita Brusoni, Italian singer and voice researcher. Felicita is pursuing a doctorate at Malmƶ Academy of Music is Sweden (part of Lund University) where she is working on a project called āA Voice Beyond the Edge.ā One of her main mentors is composer Michael Edgerton, author of The 21st Century Voice: Contemporary and Traditional Extra Normal Voice which is a catalog of vocal sounds that often comes up in conversations about extended vocal techniques.
As the name of Felicitaās artistic research project implies, this is definitely going to be an episode for voice geeks but also for those who like the bizarre. Felicita and I talk about the inaccuracy of the term āextended vocal techniques,ā about the somewhat hard-to-define but increasingly popular discipline of āartistic research,ā about the difference between extended techniques in the mid-20th century and today, about Felicitaās fresh discovery that humans can produce ultrasounds, but also about singers Cathy Berberian and even Maria Callas and, at the end, Felicita even tries to teach me an extended technique I hadnāt done before ā to mixed results.
Felicitaās website: https://www.felicitabrusoni.com/
Felicitaās Instagram: @felicitabrusoni_sopranoĀ
šµ Music:
Felicita Brusoni sings Vinko Globukarās Jehnseits der Sicherheit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5AyEU4mpBk&t=297s
Felicita Brusoni sings Michael Edgertonās Anaphora: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgkiWUgNEdA&t=344s
Cathy Berberian sings Luciano Berioās Folk Songs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GiRgEFotRxM
Cathy Berberian sings Luciano Berioās Sequenza III: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hxjCIANddU
Maria Callas and Tito Gobbi in murder scene from Tosca: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnFlg1z1hPc
For more about Artists on the Verge:Ā
šššš¼ Website: https://onthevergetrilogy.com/
Insta: @Soprano_on_the_verge
21: Artist Portrait No. 18: Darja Lukjanenko (artist, communicator, bread maker)
To see images pertaining to this episode (including Darja's social sculpture End of the World Bread) you can watch the YouTube version: https://youtu.be/x3mV2gaGj-4
Darja Lukjanenko is a Ukrainian visual art student based in Prague, Czech Republic, who, since the beginning of the war in Ukraine, started giving lectures about Ukrainian art to the public to amend what she perceived as a pervasive ignorance about Ukrainian heritage and the sovereignty of its art.
During our interview, Darja and I sat next to her āsocial sculptureā called End of the World Bread. Itās a table with a white tablecloth and on it some six loaves of bread. The soil baked into the bread was collected in Kiev by another Ukrainian artist, Bohdana Zaiats, on the first days of the 2022 invasion of Ukraine.
Darja and I talk about bread as a universal symbol of home, an open letter Darja wrote to a major Czech arts organization since the beginning of the war, the potentially problematic use of the word ādecolonizeā in the context of post-Soviet countries, and the artists social responsibility, among other things.
Darjaās Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/darjalukjanenko
Music for this episode is by Sasha Lukjanenko, from Darjaās project called Lullaby for Plevel: https://vimeo.com/476913174
More about this podcast: onthevergetrilogy.com
20: Snippet No. 3: What Are āIndieā Artists, Anyway, and Why Do They Matter?
Whenever I pitch the Artists on the Verge podcast, Iām forced to use the term āindie artistā because I canāt seem to find another shorthand for the kinds of artists Iām speaking to. It's a term which isn't perfect and does have some baggage, so here I explain what I mean by it and why I think it's particularly important to talk about this kind of artist, now.Ā
š„ This Snippet is also available as a kind of video essay on YouTube here: https://youtu.be/Unhh2ENsOhU
For more about this podcast and related blog and YouTube channel visit onthevergetrilogy.com.Ā
Follow on instagram at @soprano_on_the_verge
19: Artist Portrait No. 17: Vivian SƤde (filmmaker)
Vivian SƤde is a twenty-four-year-old Estonian/intercontinental filmmaker in the very beginning of her career. I was connected with her by another guest to this podcast, Malena Dayen (whom you can hear in episode 4), when I was looking for someone to work with on a short film. I found that Vivianās sensibility, unpretentiously influenced by pop culture, is a perfect counterbalance to a potentially overly-serious short musical film written around a monodrama for unaccompanied soprano by contemporary American composer Juliana Hall and text by Caitlin Vincent.Ā
Vivian and I talk about the difficulty of breaking into filmmaking, about walking the line between popular entertainment and high art, about the Americanization of storytelling, and about our joint film project and how it ties into issues of feminine identity in the public eye, among other things. Ā
Vivian's website: https://vivianfilms.com/Ā
This is the first episode on which I used music from the Free Music Archive. The piece in this episode is by Monplaisir, called "Lid" from the album Kitchen Table: https://freemusicarchive.org/music/Monplaisir/Ā
šššš¼ Website: https://onthevergetrilogy.com/
18: Snippet No. 2: Book Review of The Death of the Artist by William Deresiewicz
This is my review of a very prescient book which aligns with the concerns of this podcast: William Deresiewicz's The Death of the Artist: How Creators are Struggling to Survive in the Age of Billionaires and Big Tech (2020). I share one central insight of the book and also some notes I have as a European-based artist with a theater background. If I get just one person to read this book, I'll be happy! Here's a link: https://us.macmillan.com/books/9781250125514/thedeathoftheartist
More about this podcast and the related blog and YouTube channel at onthevergetrilogy.comĀ
Find me on Instagram @soprano_on_the_vergeĀ
17: Snippet No. 1: "Whatās in A Name?ā: The Topsy-Turvy Path of Branding this Podcast
This is a "snippet" episode in which I briefly expand on a theme relating to the Artists on the Verge podcast. For more about this podcast and related blog and YouTube channel visit onthevergetrilogy.com. Follow on instagram at @soprano_on_the_vergeĀ
Trailer for Artists on the Verge
Learn more about the Artists on the Verge podcast hosted by Ema Katrovas at onthevergetrilogy.com
š Instagram: @artists_on_the_verge
About the host āš¼: www.emakatrovas.com
šNewsletter (best way to stay in touch): https://mailchi.mp/45b402876641/artistsontheverge
š Become a patron and gain access to "backstage" videos: https://steadyhq.com/en/opera-on-the-verge
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQbWEV4vRw0R1my8zwswxFA
Artist Portrait No. 16: Daniil Posazhenikof (composer, founder of Geometry of Sound)
Daniil Posazhenikov is a young Russian composer, curator, performer and improviser who, over the past five years, has participated in gathering what he calls a kind of theater production company consisting of young Russian artists from various disciplines. The troupeās name is Geometry of Sound and they have so far managed to put on about five productions a year in Russia. Their output is hard to pin down, but falls within the experimental and performance-art category and is often site-specific.Ā
I was connected with Daniil by another Russian artist who told me in a private message that she is embarrassed by her country and this made me reconsider the question which everyone seems to be grappling with, these days: Should the individual, even the individual artist, be held responsible for the politics or economics of the country they live in? We touch on in this question in our conversation with Daniil. Ā Ā
Daniil and I talk about the need to connect with audiences, whether experimentation belongs in the education system, how indie performance art can fly under the radar of censorship, and what it means not to be needed by the system you are part of, among other things. Ā Ā
Daniil's online profile: https://www.ulysses-network.eu/profiles/individual/28621/Ā
More about Geometry of Sound (English version doesn't exist but you can use an online translator from Russian) : https://geozvuka.super.site/Ā
šµMusic (Composer: Daniil Posazhennikov): Ā
Nostalgia: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zXqayqgKhcĀ
Figaro Rave (theater music): https://soundcloud.com/posazhennikov/figaro-rave-new?utm_source=clipboard&utm_campaign=wtshare&utm_medium=widget&utm_content=https%253A%252F%252Fsoundcloud.com%252Fposazhennikov%252Ffigaro-rave-newĀ
G:Grammar: no online recording available Ā
Mirror (ballet music): https://soundcloud.com/posazhennikov/9-1m?utm_source=clipboard&utm_campaign=wtshare&utm_medium=widget&utm_content=https%253A%252F%252Fsoundcloud.com%252Fposazhennikov%252F9-1m
Artist Portrait No. 15: Richard Katrovas ("ex-poet," my father)
Richard Katrovas (a.k.a. my father) is the luckiest person I know: He grew up in cars, the eldest son of a criminal who bounced checks while lugging his family of seven across the United States. They lived from motel to motel and car to car, fleeing from the police, which meant my father and his four younger siblings missed much of elementary school. The two times his father was in prison, the rest of the family lived with his mother on welfare in public housing. Long story short (and I describe his circuitous life path more in the intro) he became a poet, later an "ex-poet," and a creative writing professor, as well as co-founder of the Prague Summer Program for Writers, which sprouted from the 1990s American expat community in Prague, Czech Republic.Ā
I interviewed my father more or less on a whim, a day before he left to return from Prague to the US, after visiting my sisters and me for the holidays this past December. I didnāt necessarily plan to edit our conversation into an episode of this podcast, because I wasnāt sure If my father really fits what I would think of as an āindieā artist but what I realized is that our conversation is one about myths ā personal myths, historical myths, cultural myths. My fatherās story can be framed as a manifestation of the American dream or it can be understood, as my father has come to understand it, as a story of how lucky it was to be white in 1950s and 60s America. The format of this podcast, in which I ask artists to āsing a song of themselves,ā to paraphrase Walt Whitman, really emerges from my growing up with my father's storytelling and self-mythologizing, and so his voice really does belong in the Artists on the Verge series.
I should also add that I was editing our conversation after Russia invaded Ukraine this February, and this loomed over our conversation, in retrospect, in the sense of how much we talk about the way history plays out in the lives of individuals.Ā
Richard Katrovas' website: www.richardkatrovas.comĀ
More about this podcast: šššš¼: https://onthevergetrilogy.com/
Artist Portrait No. 14: Elena Floris (Odin Teatret violinist, actress, music director)
Violinist Elena Flores has been Musical Director of the legendary Odin Teatret since 2015, and became assistant director of the theater four years ago. The core of her creative philosophy is ādiscipline,ā a word she said many times during our interview. She is also a self-described ārock starā who spent much of her career as a violinist in popular ensembles like Nidi D'arac. Elena has now spent half her career as an actor in the Odin Teatret ensemble and so her journey is also one of remaining open to the unexpected opportunities that present themselves, even when they are perpetuated by tragedy like, in Elenaās case, a devastating earthquake.
Elena and I talk about, among other things, the discipline necessary to become (and stay) an artist, how the institution of classical music might be brought into the 21st century, and how, after initial resistance, Elena began to see theater as a kind of musical composition.
Odin Teatret website: https://odinteatret.dk/ Ā
šµMusic: Ā
Brahms' Violin Concerto in D Major: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKsMjp1X-vcĀ
Nidi D'Arac, Pizzica: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCjHzAVSoxQĀ
Nidi D'Arac, Ipocharia: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DezHm-yPc9o Ā
šššš¼ Podcast website: https://onthevergetrilogy.com/
Artist Portrait No. 13: Miro TĆ³th (improvisor, composer, saxophonist)
Miro TĆ³th is a Prague-based Slovak composer, improvisor, and saxophonist who effortlessly moves between genres. He recently premiered his composition Black Angels Songs, Book 1, commissioned by the Kronos Quartet, inspired by the famous George Crumb piece. He created (among other music theater works) a series of operas called Trilogy of the Rod in which a rod ā an actual stick - becomes a kind of monolith vested with the absurd power of public officials. Heās also known as a film composer. On the other hand, he stood at the founding of an improvisation scene in Slovakia some fifteen years ago and has performed as a saxophone and vocal improvisor, in genres from jazz to free improvisation, across Central Europe. He is a tireless ensemble-founder ā from our conversation I counted about five different ensembles he founded, focused on a range of different genres.
Miro was nice enough to speak English for most of the interview but we switch to Czech and Slovak in the last third of the interview, which is also when the most interesting conversation happens. I try dub over this to convey our conversation - for anglophone people itās a kind of peek into a foreign culture and language.
Miro and I talk about how you must think of yourself as ānobodyā in order to do your best work, the absurd power of public officials, the Czech new music scene, the Ostrava New Music Days festival without which the Czech New Music Scene wouldnāt be what it is, the cultural differences between Czechs and Slovaks, and the permeability of music genres, among other things.
Miro's website: https://miro2toth.wixsite.com/home/bio
Music in this episode:Ā
Black Angels Songs, Book 1 (Dystopic Requiem Quartet): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_01mC57j0sA
"Uprostred tmy," Drń band: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJf265-LzUk
Improv w/ Toth/Mazur/Dymny, a Polish-Slovakian trio which forms part of the NewEast project establishing an improv scene in the former Soviet Block : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mf26CnMbLfw
šššš¼ Website: https://onthevergetrilogy.com/
Artist Portrait No. 12: Holiday Special: Mike Miller (organist, singer, pastor)
Mike Miller and I met on our first day of undergraduate music studies when we were both 18. Mike studied voice, as a countertenor, and, later, organ. When I found out, years after we both graduated, that he had become a protestant pastor in Texas, I was puzzled, at first ā he was openly gay and I had heard him complain about his conservative relatives who used the Bible to condemn who he was. But then I realized - Mike had never condemned Christianity or God or religion as such ā his complaints centered around how selectively people read the Bible. And, talking to him about his life as a pastor, I realized there are many parallels between what he does as a spiritual guide, and the function that artists might have as cultural guides. Ā Ā
Mike and I talk about the unpredictable life of a pastor, mistranslations of the Bible, myths about Christmas, Ā and how creating things is one of the bests paths towards greater spirituality, among other things. Ā Ā Ā
Mike's blog: https://gaybythegraceofgod.com/Ā
šššš¼ Website: https://onthevergetrilogy.com/
Artist Portrait No. 11: Jim Osman (theater director, sci-fi enthusiast)
Jim Osman is a 25-year-old theater and opera director based in the UK who has already directed a range of interesting projects across mediums and genres - like a sci-fi opera and a fantasy-puppet-satire short movie. He also produced and directed a monthly surreal comedy and puppetry night at Cairo, Brixton, made a video essay about cyberpunk opera for the Cyberpunk Research Network, and had a 1-1 12-week intensive with Daniel Kramer, former artistic director of English National Opera, who supposedly called him one of the most interesting young director heās worked with. He is currently earning a Masters in opera directing from Royal Welsh College of Music. Ā
Jim and I talk about the commodification of spirituality and identity, sci-fi as the modern-day fairytale and as a device to better talk about divisive issues, Terry Pratchett as pan-paganism, the problematic union of capitalism and technology, and the future of theater, among other things. Ā Ā
Jim's video essay on cyberpunk opera: http://cyberpunkculture.com/1st-cyrn-workshop-cyberpunk-music/%C2%A73-jim-osman/
Music: Ā
Motherload (sci-fi opera produced at Tete a Tete theater), text by Susan Gray and soundscape by Liam Noonan, sopranos: Natasha Agarwal and Julieth Lozano: https://vimeo.com/608895790Ā
šššš¼ Website: https://onthevergetrilogy.com/
Artist Portrait No. 10: Kate Gale (writer, founder of Red Hen Press)
Kate Gale is a poet, prose writer, librettist, president of the American Composers Forum, and founder of Red Hen Press, a Los Angeles-based independent literary publishing house, one of the foremost of its Ā kind in the US. Her story is both all-American and quite unusual: It involves escaping a cult, going to college just to spite a conservative boyfriend, and becoming a divorced mom who decided to transform Los Angeles into a literary city. The result was Red Hen Press, named after the American fable about the Little Red Hen who sowed her own wheat to make her own bread. Ā Ā Ā
Kate and I talk about the healing power of storytelling, how a manuscript goes from being one of thousands submissions to being published, how stories arenāt always enough, the taboos around money, the insight manuscript submissions give into the collective psyche, and why e-Books arenāt replacing print books any time soon, among other things.
Website of Red Hen Press: https://redhen.org/Ā
šµMusic: Ā
Moses Concas harmonica beatboxĀ
Nina Simone, "Please Don't Let Me Be Misunderstood"Ā
Sonny Boy Williamson harmonica solo
Iain Farrington, piano arrangement of ABBA's "Money"
Marina Lebenson, piano improvisation on "If I Were a Rich Man" from Fiddler on the Roof
Mark Abel (w/ text by Kate Gale), "Those Who Loved Medusa"Ā
šššš¼ More about this podcast and related blog and YouTube channel: https://onthevergetrilogy.com/
Artist Portrait No. 9: Christoph Ogiermann (improvisor, composer, founder of Klank)
Christoph Ogiermann is a multi-instrumentalist, composer, and improvisor based in Bremen, Germany. He is founder of Klank, a quartet of musicians who improvise on everything from their instruments to cardboard boxes or balloons. Ā Ā
We talk about feeling like an outsider, the ballet of improvising on piano, the Kafkaesque bureaucracy of German arts funding and also how well supported many German artists are, building oneās music career around making opportunities for others, and playing on boxes, among other things. Ā
šµMusic: Ā
Schubert's Symphony No. 8: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWnKMzAedK4
Malcolm Goldstein, Vision Soundings, "From Center of Rainbow": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBbiVI8IkeI
Klank improvisations: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogXwSwrf-6A
TOCH M for feedbacking Voice Transformer (Ogiermann): https://soundcloud.com/ogiermann/toch-m-for-feedbacking-voice-transformer
Cheryl Ong & Vivian Wang, "Singaporous": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8qYF70FlZwĀ
Klank website: https://www.klank.cc/en/Ā
šššš¼ For moe about this podcast: https://onthevergetrilogy.com/
Artist Portrait No. 8: Olivia Fuchs (theater director, environmental activist)
Olivia Fuchs is an opera director with roots in indie theater. Her story involves founding her own experimental theater company in London, a burned down performance space, and the UK tradition of performing above pubs. Recently, Olivia has been working on environmental activism, which she hopes to incorporate into her work in theater. Olivia and I spoke about techniques to approaching theater directing, how almost any story can be feminist, Ā the advantages of growing up bicultural, Margaret Thatcherās unexpected help in starting a small theater company, and, of course, finding ways to make ecologically-conscious, sustainable theater.
Oliviaās website: https://www.olivia-fuchs.com/
Music:
Lorraine Hunt Lieberson sings Didoās lamentĀ
Excerpts from JanĆ”Äekās The Cunning Little Vixen
More about this podcast: onthevergetrilogy.comĀ