Ibogaine Uncovered

Tommy Aceto is a former US Navy Seal and intelligence officer, a father, a breakthrough therapies advocate, a writer and director, a life coach and retreat coordinator, and veteran mental health chief officer at the Give to Give Foundation. Tommy served as a US Navy Seal for 16 years, deploying to Iraq, Afghanistan, Africa, and the Pacific Islands, and eventually becoming a basic underwater demolition Seal instructor where he developed training curriculums for close quarter combat, combat diving, and more. Tommy credits ibogaine for helping him overcome PTSD, traumatic brain injury and alcoholism and is committed to spreading the word about psychedelic medicine to others in need. 

What we discuss:

• Who was Tommy Aceto before ibogaine?

• The mental health treatment options available to veterans after their service

• What it’s like to witness transformation in other vets as a retreat coordinator and psychedelic integration coach

• Other valuable tools that have been a part of Tommy’s healing journey

• The inspiration behind Tommy’s Instagram handle, flowstatefrogman

• The value of movement, sport, and physical challenges in the context of mental health

• Unpacking the statement, “be careful of your belief systems because they are your biggest limiting factor”

• What it means to “take your pain and turn it into passion,” and how Tommy is pursuing his passion through storytelling

• Tommy’s message to politicians who insist on denying the power of psychedelics, and the work he’s doing for veterans in Washington, DC

Why it’s important: 

I first caught wind of Tommy’s profound experience with ibogaine when he testified in front of the Kentucky Opioid Abatement Advisory Commision in September of 2023. His story of resilience was one I knew we had to feature on Ibogaine Uncovered. Tommy’s transition from traumatized veteran to proud breakthrough therapies advocate and mental health ally is a true testament to the power of ibogaine – a drug that remains illegal in the United States despite mounting evidence that it could improve the lives of millions of Americans who suffer from opioid dependence, alcoholism, PTSD, TBI, and more. 

Relevant Links:

Anthony Esposito and Amber Antonelli are the co-founders of Awaken Your Soul, an iboga retreat center in Costa Rica. Both Anthony and Amber are Bwiti initiates and iboga providers who have been working with the medicine for quite some time – over a decade for Anthony and about eight years for Amber. Amber also serves as chief of the village at the center, which is situated on nearly 100 acres of lush jungle. 

What we discuss:

• The reputation of iboga as intense: is this a well-earned reputation, or is there more to it?

• Different factors that influence the intensity of an iboga experience: dose, set and setting, facilitation, and resistance

• The importance of being trauma-informed – and what that really means

• The energy of iboga: masculine, feminine, or both?

• The shifting spiritual awareness of people who are seeking out iboga

• Who makes a good candidate for an iboga retreat?

• How the iboga experience differs from the ibogaine experience (how the medicine is administered, set and setting, music, and more)

• How to deal with resistance when it arises in guests

• Lessons from the medicine, from Gabon to Costa Rica

Why it’s important: 

Iboga is often described as “intense” – this is why many refer to it as the “Mount Everest” of psychedelics. As Anthony and Amber explain, while there are certainly elements of an iboga experience that can be quite intense, there are several factors that can impact that intensity. We hear that when it comes to iboga, a small dose goes a long way, and that feelings of resistance can actually turn up the intensity dial significantly. Anthony and Amber dive into some of the key differences between iboga and ibogaine, not just in the way that they are administered, but also when it comes to why someone may seek out one over the other. They hone in on the importance of meeting people where they are at, wherever that might be on their journey – even if it’s deep in a state of resistance – and share vulnerable moments from their own path as Bwiti initiates and iboga providers. 

Relevant Links:

Joshua White is a lawyer, peer support advocate, psychedelic researcher, and the founder and executive director of Fireside Project. He believes in the power of peer support and the role of support lines like Fireside Project as foundational components of an equitable mental health ecosystem. Joshua joins Ibogaine Uncovered to discuss the role and value of non-clinical support in the psychedelic space, and to share about his recent ibogaine experience at Beond.

What we discuss:

• How Joshua’s experience with the Zendo Project and Safe and Sound’s Talk Line for Parents informed the creation of Fireside Project

• What volunteer experience taught him about the value of peer support

• Is the emphasis on therapists in the psychedelic space problematic?

• The role of non-clinical support (including coaches and peer support) in the psychedelic space

• Essential ingredients for building a safe psychedelic container, from a peer’s perspective

• Key questions to ask when looking for a psychedelic facilitator,  why it’s important to be thorough when making your selection

• How practitioners can maintain healthy relationships with their clients/peers

• The intersection of medicalization and spirituality within the ibogaine experience: is it possible to have a transformative experience in a hospital bed?

• The role of peer support in making psychedelic treatment more accessible, particularly to BIPOC and vulnerable populations

• What the future of ibogaine treatment could look like if scaled

Why it’s important: 

As more people look to psychedelic medicines to improve their health and well-being, it’s clear that a model that requires two therapists to sit with every individual receiving psychedelic therapy is not scalable. Joshua underscores the need for more non-clinical support in the psychedelic realm, including coaches and peer supporters like the ones at Fireside Project. Not only is peer support more accessible, he suggests it may also offer a psychedelic journeyer more of what they need before and after a transformative experience, especially depending on a peer’s familiarity with psychedelics. As Josh experienced during his time at Beond, having the right support, whether clinical or not, helps create a safe container for a psychedelic journey – whether that journey takes place in the Amazon, or in a hospital bed at an ibogaine treatment center in Cancun.

Relevant Links:

Bryan Hubbard is a lawyer and the former chairman and executive director of the Kentucky Opioid Abatement Advisory Commission (KOAAC). Tasked with allocating an $842-million settlement from opioid manufacturers after the courts found that the products they sold contributed to thousands of deaths in the state, Bryan and other members of the commission were appointed by Kentucky Attorney General Daniel Cameron in June 2022. In just 18 months, Bryan’s work put ibogaine in the spotlight. After learning about the psychedelic’s anti-addictive properties in the summer of 2022, he brought the idea of spending a portion of the settlement funds on ibogaine research to the AG, and in May 2023 they announced the commission’s intention to allocate $42 million to a public-private research partnership with a focus on ibogaine for substance use disorder. He was asked to step down from the role in December 2023.

What we discuss:

• How Bryan’s previous work as a public attorney prepared him for the work he went on to do for the KOAAC

• How he learned about ibogaine and his motivations for taking it the commission, even when it was clear there would be a lot of political pushback

• How political opposition impacted the commission’s interest in ibogaine

• Why the ibogaine initiative is no longer on the table in Kentucky

• Responding to claims that the ibogaine initiative was a “misuse of funds” and “corporate R&D”

• The effect that public hearings had on people who were either ambivalent or opposed to ibogaine research

• The lack of efficacy of existing treatments

• Reconciling one’s faith in God, the hope that psychedelics present, and what we’ve been programmed to believe about drugs (in the church and beyond)

• Next steps for Bryan: interest from other states in ibogaine

Why it’s important: 

In the short time that Bryan held the position of chairman and executive director of the Kentucky Opioid Abatement Advisory Commission, he was able to present ibogaine, a relatively obscure psychedelic substance, as a potential treatment for a crisis that has impacted the lives of hundreds of thousands of Americans – and people paid attention. While in the end, it seems unlikely the commission will be moving forward with the proposal, Bryan’s championing of ibogaine was successful in creating a groundswell of support for an alternative treatment option in a part of the country not exactly known for being progressive. What’s more, as a result of Bryan’s work, many who had firmly placed themselves in the anti-ibogaine camp were so moved by what they heard at public hearings that they’re motivated to see the initiative through. Although Bryan has moved on from his role in Kentucky, other states have now expressed interest in picking up where he left off. 

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Amber Capone is the CEO and co-founder at Veterans Exploring Treatment Solutions (VETS). Four years ago, she walked away from a successful career in real estate to serve in these roles, determined to improve the life of her family and others who were suffering after her husband Marcus underwent a powerful transformation with the help of ibogaine. Marcus Capone – who intended to join us but couldn’t make it – is an entrepreneur & veteran Navy SEAL who was medically retired from active duty in 2013 after 13 years of service in Special Operations, including 6 combat tours at Seal Team 10 and Seal Team 6. Today he’s the chairman and co-founder of VETS. VETS is a non-profit organization founded by Marcus and Amber, intent on ending the veteran suicide epidemic by providing resources, research, and advocacy for U.S. military veterans seeking psychedelic assisted therapy for traumatic brain injury, PTSD, and other health conditions. 

What we discuss:

• The challenges associated with Marcus’ retirement and return to civilian life, including struggles with TBI, PTSD, depression, anger and substance use, and the impact that had on Amber’s role as a wife and mother

• The specific challenges that veterans face as they try to navigate treatment options

• The role that stigma plays among veterans and how it can often prevent them from seeking treatment

• How Marcus and Amber learned about ibogaine, and the point of complete desperation they were at when they found it

• How a lack of preparedness for treatment helped Amber and Marcus develop programming at VETS to prevent them from experiencing the same thing

• The shift that Marcus experienced after ibogaine

• Talking about psychedelic treatment with their children

• Amber’s struggle to reconcile ibogaine’s healing ability with her faith in God

• The support options offered by VETS, and VETS involvement in a recent Stanford study looking at ibogaine featuring Dr. Nolan Williams

• Recent advancements in support for improved veteran care

Why it’s important: 

Amber and her husband Marcus have been advocating for access to psychedelic assisted therapy, particularly ibogaine treatment, since 2018 and have quickly become the faces of the movement. Their story and their work are prime examples of how, when the situation feels absolutely hopeless, a single profound psychedelic experience can be a complete game-changer – and in turn, how that game-changing experience often leads to an undeniable sense that it must be shared with others who have experienced the same hopelessness. 

Relevant Links:

Dr. Nolan Williams is an Associate Professor within the Department of Psychiatry and Behavioral Sciences and the Director of the Stanford Brain Stimulation Lab. He is triple board-certified in general neurology, general psychiatry, as well as behavioral neurology and neuropsychiatry. Dr. Williams joins Ibogaine Uncovered to discuss his recently published study, Magnesium–ibogaine therapy in veterans with traumatic brain injuries. Published in Nature Medicine, it evaluates 30 Special Ops veterans with predominantly mild TBI who each independently scheduled themselves for ibogaine treatment at a center in Mexico, where they also engaged in activities like breathwork and yoga, and spoke with therapists and coaches. Don’t read too much into the word “mild” here – as you’ll hear from Dr. Williams, people suffering from TBI are more often than not also dealing with other health conditions including PTSD, depression, anxiety, substance use, and suicidality. Participants in the study were referred by Veterans Exploring Treatment Solutions (VETS), a non-profit organization dedicated to ending veteran suicide.

What we discuss:

• Dr. Williams’ first impression of ibogaine: how he went from being skeptical to calling it “the most sophisticated pharmacological agent in the world”

• Why it was important for Dr. Williams to study ibogaine treatment on Special Ops veterans

• The changes Dr. Williams and his team witnessed in participants after they underwent ibogaine treatment

• The role of magnesium in the protocol and what his team was able to show as it relates to heart health during treatment 

• What we know about the dreamlike state of consciousness facilitated by ibogaine

• Ibogaine as a “dirty drug” and the analogy of the modern key

• What Dr. Williams meant when he said ibogaine led to“a Benjamin-Buttoning of the brain,” and the implications of such a change for people with TBI and PTSD

• The study’s limitations

• Which other populations could potentially benefit from ibogaine treatment?

• The role of research in affecting drug policy

Why it’s important: 

The first-of-its-kind neuroimaging study found that ibogaine could effectively treat TBI and PTSD in Special Ops veterans while improving cognitive function. Ibogaine treatment also reduced the veterans’ average rating on a disability assessment scale. Before treatment, the average rating of participants in the study indicated mild to moderate disability. A month later, their ratings indicated no disability. Remarkably, 88% experienced a reduction in PTSD symptoms, 87% experienced a reduction in depression symptoms, and 81% experienced a reduction in anxiety, while suicidal ideation decreased from 47% to 7% one month following treatment. All this to say, this new study led by Dr. Williams and conducted by his team at Stanford is playing a role in  taking ibogaine out of the category of obscure psychedelic and placing it into the category of potential breakthrough therapy. The numbers speak for themselves, as does the mainstream media coverage of the publication. As Dr. Williams points out, research still has much to reveal about this powerful plant medicine, but for now,  this study indicates that ibogaine could be a treatment option for a condition from which many people fail to find relief.

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Ben "Doc" Askins is a physician assistant, US army captain, author and podcast host. He has two decades of experience practicing and teaching wilderness, tactical, and expeditionary medicine in the military. As a civilian, he is certified with the Multidisciplinary Association on Psychedelic Studies in MDMA-assisted therapy, and is a Psychiatric Physician Assistant offering ketamine assisted therapy in Kentucky. Doc is a National Outdoor Leadership school alum, a veteran of the Global War on Terrorism, and has postgraduate training in Neuropsychiatry and Genomics with a Masters in Divinity. Doc’s book, The Anti-Hero’s Journey: The Zero with a Thousand Faces, is described as a “warped war memoir about the way to attain enlightenment” (think of it as an integration therapy guide in the form of his life story). You might remember Doc from episode 22 – he was featured in our recap of the Kentucky Summit on Breakthrough Therapies for Opioid Use Disorder. 

What we discuss:

• Doc’s presence at the Kentucky Summit

• Why Doc thinks the idea of investing $42 million in ibogaine research in KY is “a terrible idea”

• A clinician’s perspective on ibogaine

• How Doc went from a straight-edge kid and member of the DARE club to a proponent of psychedelic assisted therapy

• America’s shifting perception of psychedelics

• Psychedelic assisted therapy for veterans

• The challenges of treating people suffering from suicidality

• Doc’s recommendations for post-treatment integration

• Reflecting on Doc’s book, The Anti-Hero’s Journey

Why it’s important: 

With his strict Christian upbringing and army background, Doc might not be the first person you’d expect to be an advocate of breakthrough psychedelic therapies – but it’s precisely that background that qualifies him to speak to the ongoing crisis. As a Kentuckian with close personal connections to both the opioid and suidide crises, an active duty member of the Army National Guard, and a physician assistant (among many other things – he’s the first to call his background ‘eclectic’), Doc’s perspective on the state’s interest in funding ibogaine research is both well-informed and unique. He’s the first person I’ve heard call the plan “a terrible idea,” but not for the reason you might think. Speaking to his experience working in ketamine-assisted therapy, Doc offers insight into the kind of support a person suffering from suicidality requires, and explains why the window after a psychedelic experience is a critical time for people who have been facing treatment-resistant depression. Doc’s story is a testament to how tragedy can change our life’s course in an instant, and proof that even with years of “just say no” indoctrination, there’s hope that even the staunchly opposed could change their minds about psychedelic medicines like ibogaine. 

Relevant Links:

In this episode, host Amanda Siebert recaps the recent Kentucky Summit on Exploring Breakthrough Therapeutic Potential for Opioid Use Disorder, which was held in La Grange, Kentucky on November 30. The event brought together practitioners, researchers, policy makers, caregivers, and members of the community to discuss and learn about ibogaine, a psychedelic medicine that has been shown to interrupt opioid use disorder. Kentucky is considering allocating $42 million to study ibogaine after the state received nearly $900 million in settlements from opioid producers and distributors for their role in exacerbating the overdose crisis. In this episode, Amanda gets vulnerable, opening up for the first time publicly about her personal connection to the overdose crisis, and draws connections between the crisis in the Bluegrass state and the province of British Columbia, before highlighting some key discussion points brought up during the summit.

What’s covered

• Amanda’s personal connection to the overdose crisis

• By the numbers: the impact of the overdose crisis in BC and beyond

• Kentucky: one of America’s hardest hit states

• Learning about psychedelics for substance use

• The power of story

• Recapping Kentucky’s interest in ibogaine

• Summit recap: Rick Doblin, Dr. Deborah Mash, Juliana Mulligan

• Stories from panelists Ciprianna Quann, Talia Eisenberg, Ben “Doc” Askins, and Karen Butcher

• Fear and frustration around access to psychedelic treatment, especially for BIPOC communities

Why it’s important: 

The overdose crisis is not limited to Kentucky – It exists in varying degrees in every American state and Canadian province, cutting across demographic lines and impacting urban and rural areas alike. Even as psychedelics become part of the mainstream, it’s jarring to see a place like Kentucky be the first to consider funding ibogaine research. What the summit illustrated is that with all of our differences, whether geographical, political, spiritual, or cultural in nature, the pain associated with substance use disorder and overdose is universal, and can unify us to seek out alternative solutions. By the end of the summit, it was clear everyone in the room agreed on one thing: when it comes to substance use disorder in the state of Kentucky and beyond, it’s time to do something different.

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Amy Fillinger is a travel agent and mom of three living in Arkansas. When Amy discovered ibogaine through social media, she assumed she’d learned about it to help her ex-husband who was suffering from alcohol use disorder, until she realized it was a tool that could help her on her own healing journey. She underwent ibogaine treatment at Beond about six months prior to the recording of this episode to help her heal from codependency and post-traumatic stress. 

What we discuss:

• Codependency and the idea of “relationship addiction”

• Amy’s path to the medicine and her first impression of ibogaine

• How Amy was feeling mentally, emotionally and physically before her ibogaine treatment

• Amy’s understanding of her codependent behavior before treatment

• Her intentions for the ibogaine experience, including facilitating forgiveness and letting go of anger

• The insights Amy received in her journey about her life, and particularly about her future

• Amy’s use of social media to document her (continuing) journey

• Using movement as an integration tool

• The self-limiting beliefs Amy experienced as a result of being in a codependent relationship

• How Amy’s relationship with family and romantic partners have shifted since her treatment

• Amy’s advice for other people who may be struggling with codependent behavior

Why it’s important: 

Codependency is a learned behavior that can be passed down from one generation to another. It is an emotional and behavioral condition that affects an individual’s ability to have a healthy, mutually satisfying relationship. Codependency is sometimes referred to as “relationship addiction” because people with codependency often form or maintain relationships that are one-sided, emotionally destructive or abusive. It often affects a spouse, parent, or sibling of a person suffering from substance use disorder. Some estimates suggest that over 90 percent of the American population demonstrates codependent behavior from time to time. Amy’s experience with ibogaine is another example of how this powerful psychedelic medicine can help us work through an incredible gamut of struggles, issues and maladaptive coping mechanisms, whether we’re dealing with an addiction to a substance, a behavior, or a way of thinking. 

Relevant Links:

Tricia Eastman is an author, speaker, medicine woman, facilitator, and the founder of Ancestral Heart, a non-profit organization dedicated to the preservation and deeper understanding of ancient ritual and Indigenous wisdom. Tricia is also the founder of Psychedelic Journeys, where she has curated transformative medicine experiences and retreats in different locations around the world and for which she is currently building a retreat center in the Azores Islands. Tricia has trained under two different Bwiti traditions and after nearly a decade of working with iboga, she has a deep understanding of its spiritual technology.

What we discuss:

• Tricia’s introduction to the psychedelic realm and her experience working with different medicines, including iboga

• How ibogaine helped her overcome a lifelong struggle with eating disorders

• The different Bwiti traditions that she has been initiated into and trained under

• How stewardship informs Tricia’s work at Ancestral Heart and beyond

• The ritualistic use of iboga among the Bwiti for initiation

• The spiritual technology of iboga

• The difference between working with iboga in Gabon and receiving ibogaine in a clinic

• The cost of losing connection with ritual

• Are we being responsible stewards of this movement, and respectful of traditional practices and medicines that do not belong to us?  If not, what will it take?

Why it’s important: 

Consider the definition of stewardship: the conducting, supervising, or managing of something, especially: the careful and responsible management of something entrusted to one's care. Now consider that word in the context of iboga and ibogaine. In a recent article for Psychedelic Alpha, author and medicine woman Tricia Eastman and co-author Dr. Joseph Barsuglia suggest that we ought to have a nuanced appreciation of stewardship in the context of iboga; considering it both an appreciation of the responsibility we owe to the cultures and ecosystems from which iboga is derived, and also the safety of those who ingest it. In this episode, Tricia, the founder of Ancestral Heart and Psychedelic Journeys, explains how connection to ritual helps build that appreciation, and how, without proper care, rushing to legalize or decriminalize iboga could have unintended consequences. The show ends with the question posed in the title: Are we being responsible stewards of this movement, and respectful of traditional practices and medicines that do not belong to us? Keep listening to find out. 

Relevant Links:

David Nassim is the co-director of Blessings of the Forest (BOTF), an organization that supports environmental and traditionalist associations, Indigenous communities and administrative authorities committed to the preservation and sustainable development of Gabon’s natural and cultural heritage – including the preservation of iboga, the West African plant from which ibogaine is derived. David is also the organization’s international relations and finance officer, and a practitioner and Chinese medicine consultant. You might remember David from our interview at Psychedelic Science 2023, featured in Episode 16.

What we discuss:

• The work that BOTF does and its role in the iboga supply chain
• The Nagoya Protocol: What it is, and how it informs the protection of the iboga plant and the communities that use it 
• The unseen challenges of working closely with a large number of different organizations, associations, and communities
• The role of iboga in David’s life, and the different Bwiti traditions that he has worked with
• How iboga is viewed globally: the different interpretations and understandings in the United States and Gabon
• What is at the root of the reverence Gabonese people have for iboga?
• The implications of Western interest, namely the Kentucky Opioid Abatement Advisory Program and its interest in ibogaine
• What questions to ask when determining how a practitioner has obtained iboga/ibogaine
• Is there any overlap between what you’ve learned from Chinese Medicine, and from your work with iboga?

Why it’s important: 

In North America, ibogaine is a compound that most people associate with opioid use disorder, but in West Africa, specifically in Gabon, ibogaine is just one part of a much greater whole. In this episode, David Nassim explains in great detail the implications of increased global interest in the iboga plant for the Bwiti communities that depend on it. By leaning on the Nagoya Protocol on Access and Benefit-sharing, Blessings of the Forest is working to protect and preserve iboga while building meaningful relationships directly with communities that require support. David’s insights and understanding bring the issue of reciprocity into sharp focus, and challenge us to consider the global implications of pursuing a treatment like ibogaine.

Relevant Links:

Dr. Gül Dölen, MD, PhD, is an associate professor of neuroscience at Johns Hopkins University. In her lab, her team focuses on how the brain enables social behaviors through basic neurobiological processes such as neuromodulation and synaptic plasticity. Dölen has led several headline-making studies in the psychedelic field, including one in 2018 that involved giving MDMA to octopuses, and a more recent study that revealed psychedelics can reopen the “critical period” in the brain.

What we discuss:

• How Dr. Dölen became interested in studying psychedelics after focusing on learning and memory as well as the pathogenesis of autism

• The study that turned things around: why study the effects of psychedelics in an evolutionarily distant species like the octopus?

• What giving octopuses MDMA revealed about their normally solitary behavior

• The implications in the world of psychedelic science after studying their effects on this kind of animal

• Defining critical periods: What are they? What are the benefits of experiencing a critical period?

• Dr. Dölen’s hypothesis: Could psychedelics be the “master key” to reopening critical periods?

• Which drugs are best at reopening critical periods? Where does ibogaine stand?

• Are there any risks associated with experiencing an abundance of critical periods?

• The problem with the word ‘plasticity’

Why it’s important: 

Dr. Dölen’s pioneering research–both the study of MDMA in octopuses and her more recent work on unlocking critical periods–allows us to look at psychedelic drugs in different ways: in evolutionarily distant species with entirely different brain structures, and as “master keys” that could potentially unlock those periods. While there aren’t many studies that put different psychedelic drugs on a spectrum of efficacy, her work shows that among MDMA, LSD, psilocybin, and ketamine, ibogaine leads the way when it comes to opening critical periods – a piece of information that (hopefully) encourages more scientists in the psychedelic space to study this powerful medicine. 

Relevant Links:

This episode is a little different. Join host Amanda Siebert for an ibogaine-focused recap of the 2023 MAPS Psychedelic Science conference. This episode features audio clips from the closing ceremony featuring Norma Lotsof, and an in-person interview with David Nassim, the co-director of Blessings of the Forest.

Topics of discussion:

• three ongoing ibogaine studies and the researchers behind them

• Lucy Walker’s latest film, Of Night and Light: The Story of Iboga and Ibogaine, and the (long overdue) recognition of Norma Lotsof

• the role of veterans in relation to psychedelic policy

• efforts in Kentucky to study ibogaine for opioid use disorder

• the implications of increased ibogaine use in North America for communities in Gabon (where iboga is harvested)

• the important work of the non-profit organization Blessings of the Forest

Why it’s important: 

Amanda’s mission in attending Psychedelic Science 2023 was to learn as much as she could about where ibogaine is at, not just from a medical or political standpoint, but from a cultural one, too. Tune in to hear her relay knowledge from experts who have been critical to the support we see for ibogaine treatment and therapy, and from advocates who are doing the challenging work of ensuring that this medicine is harvested and used in a sustainable way.

Relevant Links:

David Bronner is the CEO – that’s Cosmic Engagement Officer – of Dr. Bronner’s, a fifth-generation soap maker, and a board member of the Multidisciplinary Association of Psychedelic Studies. At the helm of the company started by his grandfather in 1948, David is a leader in the fight for GMO labeling, industrial hemp farming in the United States, high-bar organic and fair trade standards, fair minimum wage, and drug policy reform. 

What we discuss:

• How a profound psychedelic experience took David from an apolitical college graduate and set him on the path to becoming a counter cultural thought leader

• I ask him What it means to be passionate about “the responsible integration of psychedelic medicine into  American culture” – especially within the capitalistic framework within which we exist

• Dr. Bronner being the first company in the U.S. to offer ketamine-assisted therapy as part of employee health coverage

• How David found iboga through his friend and former Navy SEAL Marcus Capone

• What iboga/ibogaine can do for the veteran population 

• Will we see the mainstreaming of ibogaine like we have with psilocybin?

• What David’s favorite integration tools are

• Parallels between the overharvesting of certain plant medicines and industrial agriculture

Why it’s important: 

Given all the ongoing evil in the world, it can be easy to feel swallowed up by capitalism – to feel stuck, hopeless, and afraid for the future. My conversation with David reminded me that even within an ill-structured system, it takes just a few people in positions of leadership – people like David and David’s father and grandfather –  to spark change and inspire more holistic business practices, and ultimately, more holistic ways of living. 

Relevant Links:

Dr. Deborah Mash is a pioneering researcher of ibogaine and one of the world’s foremost experts on the drug. She is a professor (emeritus) of neurology and molecular and cellular pharmacology at the University of Miami School of Medicine, and the founder and CEO of DemeRx, a company developing treatments for opioid use disorder. 

What we discuss:

• How Dr. Mash first became interested in ibogaine, including her connection to Howard Lotsof, an early ibogaine advocate

• The structure of the ibogaine molecule and what makes it unique from other psychedelics

• Dr. Mash’s early research: the first clinical studies of ibogaine in humans

• Noribogaine: what it is and what it does 

• Ibogaine fatalities: is everyone who takes it is at equal risk of death?

• How far have we come in terms of reframing our view of substance use disorder?

• If ibogaine was rescheduled, what could the future of treatment look like?

Why it’s important: 

In the excitement of the psychedelic renaissance, it can feel like all of this is “new.” It’s often said that there isn't enough research to support the use of ibogaine in a clinical setting, but Dr. Mash’s work is part of a growing body of evidence that proves otherwise. Reconciling her work and the stories you’ve heard on this show with the fact that ibogaine is still a Schedule I substance in the United States – meaning it has no medical value and a high potential for abuse – is hard to do. Understanding and working to change drug policy through research is a long game. We’re lucky that an expert like Dr. Mash is staying on the field.

Relevant Links:

Caroline Lee is a death doula, therapist, and photographer based in Oakland, California, where she is currently training to become a somatic psychologist and psychedelic therapist. She had the opportunity to receive ibogaine treatment about eight months ago. 

What we discuss:

• What is a death doula? What does it mean to be in relationship with death, and why is this an important relationship to consider?

• How Caroline envisions psychedelics fitting into our rituals around death, if laws were changed and psychedelics were available at end-of-life for people suffering from palliative anxiety

• The potential applications of ibogaine for palliative anxiety and more, from a therapist’s perspective

• Should therapists be required to take psychedelics if they want to offer psychedelic-assisted therapy?

• How ibogaine helped Caroline process the grief she experienced after a divorce that marked the end of a 16-year relationship 

• What death and the end of relationships have in common

• What Caroline’s work as a doula and a therapist have taught her about the role of grief

Why it’s important: 

You’ve heard it said before but I feel like it needs to be said more often: death is a part of life – and this conversation really showed me that talking about it openly isn’t morbid or negative or inherently bad in any way - it’s a way for us to stay more connected to the present moment. Feeling into the grief that we feel when someone dies, or when a relationship ends, expands our capacity for emotion – and using psychedelics including ibogaine can allow us to not only come to terms with those emotions, but arrive at a feeling of peace around our own mortality. 

Relevant Links:

Troy Casey is a holistic health practitioner and life coach who has spent the last 20 years helping people to eat, move, and feel better. Known as Certified Health Nut on YouTube and Instagram, Troy is an authority on longevity and leading a healthy and sustainable lifestyle. He’s also the author of Ripped at 50: A Journey to Self Love.

What we discuss:

• Troy’s reason for undergoing ibogaine treatment. As someone who lives a very healthy lifestyle, I ask the obvious question: why might someone like Troy seek out ibogaine? 

• Social media and vulnerability: is there a difference between what people see on social media, and what’s going on in the background? 

• Troy’s goal of Finding balance in a world where so much of what we consume works against our physical and mental health

• How ibogaine has helped him “get out of his own way”

• How anger has manifested in Troy’s life, and what might be at the root of it

• Creating space for anger while learning to shed bravado and “toxic” masculinity 

Why it’s important: 

In a world where we’re being more encouraged to feel our emotions, anger is one we still have trouble with. Anger or rage issues are incredibly common, affecting about 10 percent of Americans pre-covid – and after we’ve all suffered an extended period of isolation, the feelings we’ve suppressed are increasingly coming out in violent ways. Dealing with it can be a challenge. Troy’s experience with ibogaine sheds light on the inner battles that we face, and his response to it reinforces the idea that no human is ever “finished” their healing – or as Troy puts it, no one every truly “arrives” - and having that belief can sometimes be our downfall. 

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Originally from the United Kingdom, Dr. Kate Stone is a creative scientist, physicist, engineer and tech founder living in Los Angeles. She is the founder and CEO at Novalia, where she and her team create interactive posters and other everyday objects that embody the magic of interactivity and connectivity. Think posters that talk, books that turn into pianos, and walls that play music. She’s also an avid adventurer, a parent, and keynote speaker.

What we discuss:

• Coming into her ibogaine treatment, Dr. Kate had almost no experience with psychedelic drugs. We talk about her fears and expectations, and how she hoped an experience with ibogaine might help with her depression and anxiety.

• Dr. Kate’s experience of witnessing the most powerful moments of her life, and the impact that has had on how she lives her life from one day to the next and where she chooses to put her focus

• Feeling low post-ibogaine, and how those experiences have given her a better understanding of what triggers her depression

• How ibogaine helped Dr. Kate feel more connected to the needs of her body

• The impact of having a digital detox and the value of not having a smart phone for a few days

Why it’s important: It’s a common misconception that a single powerful experience with a psychedelic can “get rid” of our mental health issues – but the reality is, even when we’re doing the work to feel better, we will still face highs and sometimes, earth shattering lows in life. Dr Kate’s experience illustrates that a journey with ibogaine can provide us with a better understanding of what prompts our depression and anxiety, and with a sense of compassion and resilience for when these feelings might arise again. 

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Kaia Roman is a bestselling author, service-driven entrepreneur, intrepid biohacker, producer, investor and philanthropist living and working in Silicon Valley. Specializing in the fields of health, technology, and sustainability for 20 years, she has also been the marketing and PR muscle behind the launch of several businesses and organizations.

What we discuss:

• Kaia’s role in the burgeoning psychedelic industry and what drives her to try different psychedelic medicines in a space where not all involved are interested in having a personal relationship with psychedelic drugs
• Kaia’s relationship with biohacking, and how ibogaine fits into that relationship
• The similarities and differences between Kaia’s experiences with iboga and ibogaine, including how its consumed, differences in dose, and set and setting, as well as the different levels of discomfort in these experiences
• What it felt like for Kaia to meet herself as a four-year-old, and how that meeting led to a profound shift in safety, clarity, and authenticity for Kaia
• The value of pre- and post-treatment integration coaching
• How Kaia’s experience led to a sharp focus on her mission and how she can best serve

Why it’s important: Kaia’s experience with ibogaine might be outside of what you’ve come to relate to this drug. It illustrates that ibogaine can be used in more ways than helping us put an end to addictive behaviors – that it can help us connect with the parts of ourselves that feel unsafe and aid us in releasing our attachment to story lines that keep us small. It gives us an opportunity to upgrade.

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Flor Bollini is a creative entrepreneur, strategist, and medicine carrier – and the founder of NANA Heals. She’s also trained as a Iyanifa, a priestess of the IFA divination system, and is a student of  Ayurveda, Shamanism, and Africanism. She has been receiving and serving medicine for more than 15 years, and says her recent treatment with ibogaine was the most impactful psychedelic experience she’s ever had.

What we discuss:

• Flor, a seasoned psychonaut who has had hundreds of psychedelic experiences, speaks to her profound recent experience with ibogaine in Mexico, where she took almost 1 gram of the medicine
• Flor’s approach to the medicine: to explore her light, to see herself fully, to gain an understanding of how she is perceived, to surrender, and to get out of her own way.
• The intense visions and representations Flor witnessed: full blown virtual reality at scale of divine proportion, and cartoonish characters in sophisticated theatrical outfits that felt so real, Flor confused them with nurses in the treatment room
• How these visions made Flor feel (while ibogaine may have a reputation for being “scary,” Flor says what she witnessed was more beautiful than anything she’d ever seen while sitting with other medicines)
• The important messages she received from ibogaine, and how it allowed her to embrace her femininity in a new way

Why it’s important: Ibogaine specifically and psychedelics more broadly are often discussed and used in the context of healing trauma and facing our shadow, but Flor’s experience with ibogaine shows that when used with intention, this medicine can also enable us to get more comfortable with our light.

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Brigit is the founder and CEO of We, a learning studio that provides workshops and experiences to help people develop relational mindfulness within their relationships at work. She’s also an intimacy and relationship coach, a mom, and an artist.

What we discuss:

• what life was like before a recent ibogaine experience at Beond
• how she struggled to maintain a work-life balance
• how her relationships with alcohol and tobacco had become problematic without much awareness of how these substances were affecting her
• how she had hoped that treatment with ibogaine might help her heal from the trauma of experiencing abuse as a child
• her intense preparation for her experience
• how she developed a list of not 2 or 3 but 56 questions for ibogaine
• how her ibogaine experience, which was wildly different than what she expected, could have gone in two very different directions

Why it’s important: Brigit’s story is one that many of us can relate to: how many of us are struggling with burnout, numbing our pain with substances, and sitting with unresolved childhood trauma? There’s a lot to learn from Brigit’s understanding of relationships and intimacy, and from her experience navigating her ibogaine treatment.

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Kerry Rhodes is a former NFL safety who played in the league for 9 years, first for the New York Jets and then for the Arizona Cardinals, until 2013. Today he is a musician, writer, director, producer, and actor, who hasn’t exactly shied away from talking about his own personal use of psychedelics and how they have changed his life for the better.

What we discuss:

• Kerry’s experiences with psychedelic medicine
• the role psychedelics could have for folks in professional sports leagues
• the role of the supporter: what does it look like to support a family member, a friend, a loved one through the ibogaine experience?
• How to best support someone who is about to undergo an ibogaine treatment
• The importance of preparation, integration, and community
• advice for those in a supporter’s role

Why it’s important: Supporting a loved one through a traumatic period in their lives can be incredibly challenging, because it requires a level of surrender on the part of the supporter, too – a sense of trust in the process, and a willingness to let go of control. Kerry’s experience shows us how vital support from a loved one can be in taking the initial step to seek treatment, and how that support can allow a person to learn to trust the process, too.

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Vianey Ariadna Perez, or Nurse V. as everyone at Beond calls her, is a registered nurse and the head of nursing at Beond. Nurse V. has overseen more than 500 ibogaine experiences, and a few months ago, she also had her own experience with the powerful medicine. Born in Mexico and raised in Atlanta, Georgia, she studied at a private nursing university and worked in Cancun’s General Hospital in several different departments before she began working with ibogaine in 2018.

There are some obvious things required of Beond’s nursing staff, and some less obvious things. In this episode, Nurse V. discusses some of the finer points of being a nurse in this kind of setting, and shares about her experience of witnessing transformational changes in the people she cares for.

Nurse V. opens up about her own experience with ibogaine in the spring of 2022, and she discusses a topic on the minds of several people in the psychedelic space: is it necessary for people who work with a psychedelic medicine like ibogaine to have their own experience with the medicine?

She also offers up advice to folks with nursing experience who might be considering working in this growing space.

Why it’s important: Nurse V presents a different perspective on ibogaine treatment: not one from the patient’s chair or the science lab but from directly opposite a patient, within the treatment room, and as the leader of a nursing team overseeing several patients who are at different points in their ibogaine treatment plan. Learning about Nurse V’s experiences with ibogaine, both personal and professional, provides a level of insight into treatment that could be new for listeners.

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Elizabeth Bast, a writer, yoga teacher, Bwiti Initiate, traditionally trained ceremonial iboga facilitator, and the co-founder of SoulCentro in Costa Rica. She has worked with iboga for well over a decade and is the author of Heart Medicine: A True Love Story, a memoir about an experience in healing through iboga.

What’s covered:

• Elizabeth’s introduction to iboga and supporting her partner through relapse
• Iboga and relationships: its impact on relationships
• The role of caregivers and how to support someone in addiction
• Elizabeth’s relationship with iboga and being initiated with the Bwiti
• The importance of relationship and community to the use of iboga
• How one can use iboga to cultivate deeper relationships with the self, others, and the earth
• What is reciprocity?

Why it’s important:

This heartfelt conversation gets to the root of why community is so important and intrinsic to not just an iboga or ibogaine experience, but any medicine experience. Elizabeth’s work and life experience speak to the value of relationship, and remind us that healing is not an individual pursuit, but something that happens as a collective.

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Dr. Thomas Kingsley Brown, an anthropologist, chemist and a MAPS researcher who studies the potential for ibogaine-assisted therapy to treat drug addiction, among other things. He is the research program coordinator at the University of California San Diego McNair program, and an advisor to Beond.

What’s covered:

• How ibogaine stacks up against standard treatment models for addiction
• Dr. Brown’s research on the long-term effects of ibogaine treatment: does it last?
• the recent history of ibogaine
• Who is Howard Lotsof?
• How and why ibogaine was scheduled in the United States
• Psychedelic drug policy
• What Dr. Brown’s research shows about the importance of integration and support after treatment
• Can a psychedelic experience feel like a religious conversion?

Why it’s important:

If you’re interested in learning more about both the long-term effects of ibogaine, and ibogaine’s history, this episode is for you. Dr. Kingsley Brown also does an excellent job of explaining why ibogaine is where it’s at right now as far as policy and research. His explanations of his own work on ibogaine’s long-term effects speak to the potential that it has in treating addiction effectively.

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Talia Eisenberg, co-founder of Beond, a serial entrepreneur involved in psychedelic healthcare who is most passionate about democratizing access to safe, scientifically backed treatment for addiction and trauma

What’s covered:

• Talia’s discovery of ibogaine
• Her experience at an ibogaine treatment center 13 years ago
• The evolution of the ibogaine treatment community
• Moving beyond opiate dependency and healing the underlying cause
• The importance of meeting people where they are at
• What happens during ibogaine treatment
• What happens after treatment
• Modalities that are complimentary to the post-treatment integration process
• Beond’s scholarship program and new Reset programs

Why it’s important:
Talia’s story is a wonderful example of the potential ibogaine has to completely turn someone’s life around – and not just that, but how that can 180 can inspire changes that go far beyond one person’s individual journey.

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