Beyond Consultation

First up, a big announcement
Today's episode is significant as it marks the last interview the Beyond Consultation Podcast will be releasing for the foreseeable future. That's big! But why end a good thing... find out more in the episode.
Introducing Jade Tang-Taylor
This kōrero with Jade asks how do we care for ourselves when we care for our work?
Working to change systems and organisations is tough work. It's never complete. Your efforts often pass by with no thanks. (And often you bear the brunt of people's negative emotions.)
We also talk about how our culture and heritage can profoundly affect our work. Our history shapes our future - whether we're aware of it or not.
In today's episode you'll learn:

• How to care for yourself even when that feels like the last thing on your list
• How to embrace the legacy of your cultural heritage within your mahi
• The effects of AI in the workplace and how you can maintain your humanity in the midst of massive technological and social change.

Resources mentioned in this episode:

Introducing Judy Zhang

How can we put relationships, learning and a systems-view at the centre of our work?

This question is what guides my kōrero with Construction Accord Director, Judy Zhang.

The Construction Accord is a shared commitment between government and industry to transform the construction sector. In 2022, the government set out a three-year action plan to tackle the sector's systemic challenges and build resilience across the industry.

With the temptation to sweep failures under the rug when working in the public sector, Judy shares how transformative it can be when we put learning at the heart of our work.

In today's episode you'll learn:

• What happens when you put relationships and learning at the center of systems change.
• Why evaluation needs to be everybody's job (not just the data people's)
• How to shift from KPIs (focused on proving your progress) to meaningful measures (focused on learning).

Resources mentioned in this episode:

Introducing Natalia Sexton

How can a philanthropic funder use its power, influence and resources to enable systems change?

Today's kōrero with is with Natalia Sexton, General Manager of Weave (the new name for the Working Together More Fund).

Natalia has advised and held leadership positions with Iwi, Government, NGO’s and Philanthropy. You can hear her passion coming through for centering whānau and community voices in transformational change.

Like me, Natalia is a recovering law graduate - but don't hold that against us. 😉

In today's episode you'll learn:

• How to shift power dynamics to create positive systems change.

• Why it's essential that our whakapapa is at the core of everything we do.

• How to weave equity into everything your organisation does.

Resources mentioned in this episode:

Introducing Tracey Shepherd

August's episode is another gem brought to you through my Inspiring Communities connection (big shout out to the wonderful people that work there).

Tracey Shepherd, REAP Aotearoa National Director, on the committee for Cloudkids Educare and coordinator of Fab Feathy, a community-led development initiative in Pae Tū Mokai Featherston.

Our kōrero today centres around the incredible force of coming together as a community, supporting each other, and just bloody getting on with it.

In such a time of disconnect, it's more important than ever to reconnect.

In today's episode you'll learn:

• The power of a community leading and doing it for themselves.
• Invest in the outcomes you want, but adjust your thinking in how to achieve those outcomes.
• The work that REAP Aotearoa and Fab Feathy are doing in leading community development.

Resources mentioned in this episode:

Introducing Vanessa Sidney-Richmond and Sarah Morris

Today's episode was sparked by the recent release of a report called Make the Move: Shifting How the Public Sector Works with Communities.

I don't know about you, but that's a topic I can get in behind.

In today's episode, I talk to Vanessa Sidney-Richmond, Pou Whirinaki of Te Tihi o Ruahine Whānau Ora Alliance, and Sarah Morris, Freelance Social and Systems Change Consultant and author of the report (commissioned by Inspiring Communities).

In our kōrero, the overarching theme is around the question; how can we shift the way the public sector works with communities? How can we broaden government's role so it's about creating the conditions for change, alongside creating solutions themselves?

We cover a few key topics in today's episode, and that's what I love about these interviews! A complete collaboration and sharing of ideas and opinions.

Introducing Mele Wendt

Most of us have heard about IQ (your intellectual quotient), and some of us have heard about EQ (your emotional quotient). But what do you know about your CQ - your cultural quotient?

In a world of diverse ethnicities and cultures, it's time to grow your cultural awareness.

In today's episode, Mele Wendt graciously gives us some tough love and unpacks some Pasifika concepts of governance and collaboration. Her whakapapa roots back to Samoa, and so her perspective comes through a Samoan lens.

Mele shares with us how the Samoan governance system is so different, yet so similar to Western governance systems.

And she challenges us to stop lumping "the Pasifika community" together as one, and instead get out there and learn about the rich cultural diversity and needs of Pasifika communities before we engage.

In today's episode you'll learn:

• What is CQ and how can you grow yours
• How Samoan governance is similar to Western governance (and how you can embrace that when working with Pasifika peoples)
• Some hard-hitting practical tips for engaging with Pasifika communities.

Resources mentioned in this episode:

Introducing Dr Emily Beausoleil 

In today’s episode, Dr Emily Beausoleil asks a fundamental question:

How do we make it easier for people in advantaged positions to listen effectively?

Because let's face it. In today's society, listening is the poor cousin to talking. We face immense challenges in building the capacity for better listening in our institutions, our online spaces and our everyday interactions.

Emily's work explores the conditions, challenges, and possibilities of democratic engagement in diverse societies.

Born and raised in Canada, Emily is aware of her own privilege and curious about her place in Aotearoa New Zealand.

In this epsiode, we explore listening in Aotearoa's context - how can we learn from, and listen to, our tangata, our people, when engaging with different organisations? How can we make sure we have an awareness of their history, culture, structure and location - all in hopes of deeper understanding?

In today's episode you'll learn:

• What research tells us about how to enable (or disable) good listening
• How can we listen more intentionally, in hopes of gaining a deeper understanding.
• How to navigate your own privilege (or challenge) in different contexts.

Resources mentioned in this episode:

Introducing Ivan Tava

“It’s about the process, not just the outcome. It's the journey, not just the goal.”   

Ivan Tava grew up in the South Island - Te Waipounamu - and that experience has really shaped him.

He continues to serve the people of Te Waipounamu today. In the daytime, he leads the development of PWC's consulting team. At night and during the weekends, he puts his energy into serving his people as part of the Pacific Data Sovereignty Network.

In today’s episode, he takes us on a journey through his cultural roots to help you understand how to better serve Māori and Pasifika whānau.

Ivan has some hard-hitting messages about how you treat your brown staff within your own organisation. If you cannot connect with your brown staff, you will not connect with their communities.

In today's episode you'll learn:

• How to connect with your Māori and Pasifika staff (and how not to treat them!) 
• What to do with your privileged position to support the aspirations of your Māori and Pasifika staff
• How to honour the sovereignty of data about Pacific peoples. 

Resources mentioned in this episode:

Introducing Kelsey Taimaiporea

Three Waters. We've all heard about it, most of us have seen a "stop Three Waters" billboard somewhere in Aotearoa. But what does it really involve? How does the Three Waters initiative impact Māori? 

Today we talk to Kelsey Taimaiporea, Three Waters Engagement Lead at New Plymouth District Council. A large part of Kelsey's role is to engage meaningfully with Iwi to navigate tapu (sacred) sites and the significant impact of these changes. 

Engaging Māori communities means visiting the marae, listening to their stories and drinking a thousand cups of tea to truly understand the tangata whenua that are being impacted.  

In today's episode you'll learn:

• Three Waters - we've all heard about it but what is it?
• How Three Waters impacts Iwi in Aotearoa 
• The significance of engaging meaningfully with those communities most impacted by these changes 

Resources mentioned in this episode:

Introducing Mike Reid

Today is our fourth of our series of Throwback episodes, and this one takes us way back to Ep 7!
The perfect bite-sized episode for easy listening - Mike Reid discusses the unique diversity emerging in local government now, and how there is so much space to enable even more community-led decisions and consultations. 

Introducing Ayla Hoeta

Ayla Hoeta is a kaiāwhina - a Lecturer - with Waipapa Taumata Rau, the University of Auckland. She’s a māmā of two teenage sons, with whākapapa roots connected to the south of Tāmaki Makaurau.

Carrying a deep understanding of racial segregation, poverty and the inequality rooted in Aotearoa, Ayla has sought to heal the generational wounds ingrained into our tangata whenua - the people of our land - by connecting to her identity.

As part of this healing, Ayla has helped to develop a framework called Hautū Waka; a navigational framework rooted in mātauranga Māori that you can use to help navigate complexity.

Hautū Waka encourages us to switch our thinking from human-centred design to whānau and whakapapa-centred design; rooting our decisions in ancient knowledge.

Also in today's episode, we dive deep into what it means to be a good Treaty partner and the true effects of subtle racism in the workplace.

In today's episode you'll learn:

• What it means to be a good Treaty partner
• What you can do when you encounter racism in the workplace (because… yes, you will)
• The deeper meaning behind the word whānau (it’s more than just a nuclear family of 2.4 kids and a dog)
• Hautū Waka - What is the framework? Where did it spring from? How can you use it?

Resources mentioned in this episode:

Introducing Matthew Crozier 

Today's episode is our third in our series of Throwbacks - this time we relive our conversation with Matthew Crozier from Ep 10, looking at how building online digital engagement spills over, aiding to level up your organisations community engagement. 

Introducing Holly Bennett

Today we cast our thoughts back to Ep 17 with Holly Bennett, all about the unexpected path into political lobbying.

Particularly, we hear Holly's answers to these questions; 

• "What is lobbying?"
  
• "How do you get started in lobbying?"  

Advocacy in government is essential, and Holly shares some wonderful insights on why she chose to go against the grain and how you can too. 

• The truth about lobbying… is it really the dark art and dirty politics it’s made out to be?
• What it takes to be a professional lobbyist
• How a beginner can get started with lobbying to those in power and government

Introducing Aimee Gasparetto and Tammy Mudge

The future work-scape is collaborative, sustainable, humanitarian, and local. Are you ready to participate in this new economy? 

For Every One, Every Day - an organisation in Halifax, Canada - the participatory cities approach feels like second nature. Nurturing community, particularly in respect of Halifax's prominent Indigenous people, is what Aimee and Tammy strive for in their work every day. 

"What if you could build a system of participation that could extend across cities and connect neighbourhoods?" This question fuels our discussion, which dives deeper into the practicality of participation driven communities.  

In Ep 55 we discussed the participatory cities approach and how it has the potential to positively impact communities.  

Today, in Ep 57, we cast our mind back to participatory cities, to hear about this approach in a practical, everyday sense and what it really looks like when introduced to Indigenous communities.

Again, Hamish Lindop also joins us to ask some curious questions and share his thoughts. 

In today’s episode you’ll learn: 

• What the participatory cities approach looks like in action.
• The practicality of participation driven communities. 
• How to customise the participatory cities approach to individual community needs. 
• How you can get started with this approach in your community. 

Resources mentioned in this episode: 

Ngati Kahungunu and Ngati Tuwharetoa

Welcome to our very first 'Throwback' episode! We've looked back at our stats to find some golden episodes that seemed to have gone under the radar.

In this episode, you'll hear from Israel Hawkins reflecting on how to take a kaupapa-Māori approach to collective impact. If you're intrigued by collective impact, but also hesitant about copying and pasting a North American approach in this country, you will love this throwback.

Climate change, political upheaval, inequality, global pandemics, the list goes on... How do we come together as people, as humanity, to find ways through this man-made maze?

A participatory city is where citizens play a key role to create the change they wish to see - rather than suggesting ideas for someone else to potentially create that change.

In today's episode - part one of two - we'll be talking with Tessy Britton, who is the key driver behind this participatory cities approach in the UK.

Plus you'll hear from Hamish Lindop - a New Zealander inspired to adopt the Participatory Cities approach in his work with Auckland Council.

• What a participatory cities approach looks like and how it has the potential to impact communities
• Why the Participatory Cities team describe the approach as "a platform"
• The positives outcomes from intentionally participating in your own communities and neighbourhoods and what that can look like
• How we can learn from this approach in the UK and transform it to work within our own backyard.
  

Resources mentioned in this episode:

Introducing Jon Tamihere-Kemeys

In today's Bonus Episode 54, we continue our discussion with Jon Tamihere-Kemeys on all things transformation from an a te ao Māori point of view.

Navigating transformation through the choppy waters of conflict, resolution and uncertainty, JT asks "if everyone is paddling, but the waves are pushing you left and right, who's holding the waka straight?"
Leading navigation is no easy task which is why there is insurmountable value in external guidance when riding the waves of transformation within organisation.

If you're interested in hearing more about the conversation we started with Jon Tamihere-Kemeys in Episode 51, this bonus episode is just what you need.

In today’s episode you’ll learn:

• Navigating transformation through the lens of a te ao Māori
• The value of independent partners to guide in times of change and growth
• The importance of keeping mana atuatanga at the heart of all we do

If you spend any time researching those that are playing a role between Māori and the Crown, then you’ll soon come across an organisation called Te Arawhiti - the Office for Māori Crown Relations.

Translated, ‘Te Arawhiti’ means ‘the bridge’, and the organisation was established in 2018 by Cabinet to work towards true Treaty partnership.

Our guest today, Lil Anderson, is the Chief Executive of this amazing organisation and she shares her unique view and approach to building true partnership between Māori and the Crown.

Having been thrown into the deep end by Dame Whina Cooper when she was just seven years old, Lil has carried the same purpose and spirit with her through all her years of public service - to speak up and be bolder.

If you’d love to feel more empowered in your place as either Māori or Pākehā, and feel more equipped to ‘cross the bridge’ and find a way to work in true partnership, this episode is essential listening.

• Why Pākehā need to spend more time crossing the bridge into te ao Māori to grow true partnership
• The importance of listening (and that your first move shouldn’t be to research data but to talk to people)
• What does good partnership look like? What are the features of it and how do you achieve it?
• How Dame Whina Cooper’s legacy lives on in Lil Anderson today!

How can we create a country where everybody feels like they belong?

It's a powerful question and not one that can be answered in a simple sentence, but it’s the very question that’s at the heart of today's episode.

Do you have faith that your organisational strategies are going to succeed?

How often do you hear words like “transformation” and roll your eyes?

We spend a lot of organisational energy on strategy and planning - on trying to figure out where we want to go and how we are going to get there. Yet the gap between dreams and reality is a gaping void.

Today’s guest, Jon Tamihere-Kemeys, is someone who can help to Illuminate what’s missing in our efforts to transform systems and organisations.

Conventional wisdom says to start with “why” - Why do we exist?

But JT believes there is a deeper place to start - with “who” - Who are we as a collective? Who are we as an organisation? From whose waters do we flow?

If you’re interested in learning more about a te ao Māori approach to transformation, this episode is just what you need.

• Why it’s not enough to have a strong “why” for your organisation or team
• The deeper meaning of two common Māori words - aroha and manaakitanga
• How strategy is about perception: taking a close look at distant things, and a distant look at close things.
• The value of an independent partner to guide you through your transformation journey.

We are celebrating the 50th episode of the Beyond Consultation podcast by looking back at our most popular episodes, some hidden gems, and what we’ve learnt (which we also share with you!).

From only 7 plays in our first month, the podcast has grown to over 600 plays in this past month alone. This is a testament to how many people are finding value in our content and how it’s being shared with others. So thank you for spreading the word!

Welcome to this special episode of Beyond Consultation - the wrap-up of the Talk It Up Unconference 2022!

This episode is not one of our usual interviews, but a collection of conversations from the first ever Talk It Up Unconference that I attended recently in Hamilton.

Think of today's episode as one of those degustation meals, where you get lots of small courses and they're all really good.

Talk It Up was organized by four local government friends and co-conspirators who found that the best part of the conferences they often attend are the conversations and the connections made during the breaks...

You’ll hear stories like:

• How inspiration struck one council after an employee accidentally shared a phallic-shaped weather report on Facebook...
• The power of reframing 'no' into 'not yet'
• How we can harness the uniqueness of government where nobody is competing against each other.

This is for everyone who attended, and for those who missed out. Enjoy!

I don’t remember much from my history class as a 10-year old, and my year seven class put me off history for a long time.

It's only recently, as I've started to learn more about Māori that I've come to appreciate that history is story. And history is context. And context and stories are everything when you're trying to work with a community to enable change.

In today’s little bonus episode (or Episode 41B) we're going back to my conversation with Simon Wright on the history of democracy.

For better or worse, we seem to take our democracy for granted. The idea of representative democracy that we, the people, vote others in to make laws for us to govern us.

So Simon take us back in time to the roots of our democracy - to Rome, to Greece - and unpacks the implications for us today.

• Are we questioning and discussing our current democratic system enough?
• How the power of democracy should be demonstrated in the decisions that are being made - not just the elections that are held.

Mayor of Nelson Rachel Reese is a bit of an enigma.

She's been labelled a National Party candidate, which she's never been.

Recently a Nelson resident declared she was in the pocket of the Labour party.

And we’ve even seen her labelled a greenie for her work on climate change and public transport!

But Rachel’s always had an emphasis on partnerships and she's always embraced going beyond just ‘yes’ or ‘no’ discussions about important issues.

In this episode, we explore her journey into becoming a mayor and her involvement in local and national issues, like the controversial Three Waters working group.

Rachel tells us about what she calls ‘The Office of Good Ideas’, which moves local government to more of an enabling role and creates more permission and space for failure.

For any of you who are involved in politics, I'm sure you will nod your head along to some of the challenges that Rachel shares. And if you're not involved in politics, it's so valuable to understand what the reality is like for those people that you might be reporting to.

• The value of knowing the why in your strategy work, so you can adapt in line with that
• How local government can create space for communities to take the lead
• The importance of listening in politics, even when you don’t like the message.

Have you ever had this great idea that you were excited to share with your manager, CEO or team leader… and they just don’t get it? They're not onboard. They're not excited. And the idea disappears.

In today's episode, we'll unpack some of what might be going on in those sorts of situations. We're talking power and influence with Tracey Bridges, Chair of the Wellington Regional Economic Development Agency and co-founder of The Good Registry.

Tracey's message for you is that you are powerful, and that you probably have more power than you understand or give yourself credit for. We talk about using your power for good, and how our culture can perpetuate the myth that you can only obtain influence or power by removing it from others.

Tracey challenges these myths by introducing the idea of an influence exchange - that you only become influential, truly influential by giving influence to others.

• How the ide of singular purpose can be unhelpful and how honest reflection can often unlock the natural next steps.
• The idea of power and thinking about how we can deploy our energies for good.
• That being influential is not about having a certain style of doing things, but rather being intentional about the difference we want to make.

Impact is an intriguing word, isn’t it?

And you may face lots of challenges with trying to figure out your organisation’s impact.

For smaller organisations, impact assessment is a “nice to do”. Costly. Time-consuming. Overwhelming. And so we rely on our hunches.

Larger organisations face different challenges. Sometimes the measures we set up become the targets themselves and blind us to other possibilities. Or you have so much data and you become overwhelmed.

• Radical transformation
• Community innovation
• Codesign
• Pulling levers
• Breaking down silos
• Tackling wicked problems
• Solving complex issues.

1. They're vague. They don't tell people what you're doing or why. They're a shortcut for us as practitioners, yes. But for everybody else who doesn't live in the world of systems change, they don't mean much.

2. They're passive. They don't make it clear WHO needs to change. This lets powerful people stay under the radar.

3. They don't paint a compelling vision for the future Positive visions are crucial for encouraging people to act differently. Humans are wired to avoid pain. Talking about "radical transformation", for instance, just sounds risky to many people.

4. They make system change seem impossible. Calling a problem "complex" or "wicked" makes people go "Oh, well we can never effect change because it's all out of our hands". But that's not true.

5. Or they make systems change seem much simpler than it really is. When we talk about 'solving complex issues', people think they just need to find 'the correct answer'. (It'll be at the back of the textbook right?!) When in fact we need to learn to navigate the situation - taking notice as we move forward.

Our two guests today are from The Workshop, a research organization here in Aotearoa New Zealand that helps people to explain and understand complex issues.

Should we be separating  work and play when connecting with our communities?

Our guest today, Alex Bonham, challenges the idea that local government can’t be fun. Originally trained in theater and comedy, Alex now serves on her local board and has done her PhD in how we can create more opportunities for play in a city - the topic of her highly interesting book!

She’s also put on a sold-out play called An Extraordinary Meeting, in which she used live theater to help a community understand the different trade-offs  that might be involved in a decision.

If you’ve been feeling a bit stumped and stuck in your engagement, this episode is for you. It will challenge you to explore how you can take aspects of your own personal life, your own strengths and  skills that you might not think are relevant to your work, and use those to strengthen the conversations that you're wanting to create.

• Addressing the myth that local government isn’t fun.
• If less people engage in local politics, there will be fewer channels for people to be able to create the city that they want
• The ineffectiveness of consulting communities in higher level, intangible language.
• How we can bring in more creative ways to work with our communities.

What's your default reaction to conflict?

I've been having lots of conversations this year with people who are trying to shift how their organization works with the people they serve and the ‘emotional rollercoaster’ is often mentioned. People who are in the dream jobs are feeling disillusioned and constrained by the conditions around them.

If that sounds like you, then this episode is going to be hugely helpful.

The conversation today is with Liz Skelton who has a wealth of experience, helping different groups of people across all sorts of backgrounds to make social and cultural change together. She is the co-founder, director and now the chair of Collaboration for Impact in Australia, which tries to help communities work on the root causes of problems rather than the symptoms.

In this episode Liz helps us to reframe the challenge of working within an organization that you feel is constraining you. She encourages us to shift our dialogue from ‘my organization is constraining me’ to ‘shifting beliefs and perspectives IS the work’…

• That building the muscles to sit with constant discomfort, will enable our systems to be uncomfortable enough to change.
• How we need to be optimistic about the future, but also ruthlessly real about what it will take to get there.
• The benefit of preparing for the point of resistance rather than viewing it as a failure when you reach it.

Craig's journey into public sector leadership was not typical. He didn't come up through the community sector or the public sector. In fact, he was a transport and logistics expert helping to get goods around the country as fast as possible!

Now he’s a regional commissioner for the Ministry of Social Development and a Public Service Commissioner under the Public Service Act.

Because of Craig’s private sector background, I was expecting him to bring a strong private sector and logistics lens to his new public sector role. What a surprise to find that his focus is on the interconnected nature of the public service and how the Ministry of Social Development can be an enabler for others within that system.

• The value of having a strong operational leader to free up other people to explore the bigger systemic picture.
• How to grow your partnership aspirations through small everyday actions that add up over time
• The reality of the new Public Service Commissioner role (which Craig calls a “pub with no beer”)
• How government can play an enabling role for iwi Māori to serve their whānau needs.

When we make it easy for our communities to talk to us through quick surveys and online forms, are we losing the opportunity for important and hard conversations?

Today’s guest, Simon Wright, unpacks the limitations of our consultation mindset. The limitations of technical or expert-driven conversations that miss the political and moral implications when engaging with communities.

There is power in open dialogue and discussion, but often organisations are talking to people through closed dialogues. It’s only through those hard conversations, those brave dialogues, that we can uncover insights that otherwise we might not have expected.

Simon has a wealth of stories and experiences that he can draw on as a member on the expert advisory panel for the New Zealand Open Government Partnership, as a partner at Public Engagement Projects, and as a teacher on digital engagement at Victoria University.

This episode will be particularly valuable for anybody working in a policy role who is trying to understand how to fit community participation into the policy process.

• Why the ‘hub-and-spoke’ model of consultation causes disconnect and why you should move away from it
• That the public is tired of consultation and hungry for more authentic ways of talking and working with institutions
• Why we should stop trying to make it easy and fast for the public to engage with institutions
• How digital tools can help us to have open dialogues with more people to uncover new ideas and ways of thinking.
• How to step up your digital engagement to allow people to build on each other’s ideas instead of having a two-way conversation with only your organisation.

How do we continue to take an experimental approach while working on opportunities that are looking 30 years into the future?

What if you find yourself in an existing program of work that has stalled?

Resetting existing work has been a bit of a theme for Gael Surgenor throughout her career. When things are a bit murky, nobody quite knows what to do. And those are ideal conditions for innovation.

Harvey is the lead agitator and coordinator working behind the scenes on the Waikato Wellbeing Project - a collective effort to improve wellbeing in one region of Aotearoa New Zealand.

Setting up a project of this type is a learning exercise in and of itself. Harvey and his team have been generous in sharing their lessons learned along the way - openly and honestly.

One of the many things I enjoyed about this conversation is how Harvey epitomises the journey that a lot of facilitators seem to go on.

Often we begin this work believing we need to have all the answers figured out. We go searching for the “right solution” or the “evidence-based approach” or the “clear plan”.

But over time we learn to instead approach this work with curiosity and a desire to connect with people, to experiment and to learn.

You can read all the articles, you can listen to all the podcasts, you can use all the right language… but sometimes the conditions aren't right in your own life to be able to apply the theory or you haven't yet had the kind of experience that allows you to put your insight into practice.

If you're in a situation where you are wanting to work more collaboratively, more systemically, more relationally, then you're going to love hearing from Harvey as we go behind the scenes of setting up the Waikato Wellbeing Project.

• How structure, relationships, permission and skills are all needed for people to work together effectively.
• Why listening to the voices and expertise of people with lived experience is crucial.
• That failure is okay and that it’s part of the process to solutions emerging.
• That facilitation is a supportive role and we don’t need to know all the answers.

How do you convince somebody from finance, legal or engineering that they need to involve the community at the start of that big new project?

Amy Hubbard from Capire Consulting Group has lived and breathed community engagement since she left university. As a result, she has a wealth of stories that are just sitting there, ready to pull out for the right person at the right moment to communicate the value of community engagement.

Today's show really is a lot about planning for success with community engagement. Amy shares a percentage of time that she believes is a smart amount of time to spend on getting ready for engagement. The number might surprise you.

Get your pen and paper ready for this helpful episode, filled with tips and tools to help you better prepare for your next engagement project.

• What it looks like to set up an engagement project for success.
• Why ‘engagement’ means different things to different people and how you can define this more clearly.
• A look at the Capire Engagement Triangle tool and how to use it.
• What marrying social impact and engagement looks like in practice.

It was only 250 years ago that most humans changed their habitat from hunting and working together in villages, to working in offices and factories. But those human instincts from the Savannah, from the bush, from our villages still exist within us.

Andrew O’Keeffe has taken the science of human instincts and looked at how to apply them within organizations. He strives to understand those instincts and how we can harness them in how we work together.

In speaking with Andrew, my overall question was ‘how might we use the science of human instincts to improve how organizations work with communities?’ and the fascinating answer is that human instincts tells us to embrace things that are sometimes looked down on in the workplace.

We tackle things like office gossip and chit-chat, and Andrew debunks the myth that humans are averse to change. He talks about how you can communicate, how you can talk, how you can listen to really embrace what we are hardwired to be thinking about and working through within the back of our brains.

We only scratched the surface, but if you do any work with communities, this will be a really valuable episode for you.

• How to encourage the change you’re looking for by tapping into what we know about human instincts.
• How to create an organisational culture based on human instincts and how to engage externally based on them
• Examples of human instincts and how they play out in the workplace.
• Tackling the myth that people resist change and diving into what instincts are really at play.

In late 2019, we spoke to a dozen local leaders about the various collaborative groups they were involved in. They all agreed that the groups were operating reasonably well.

At the same time, we spoke to lower-level people in those same organisations. And they disagreed. They described the groups’ frustrating bureaucracy, their lack of impact, and the lack of community involvement.

The reason for the discussions was we hoped to invite Liz Weaver to our city to run a workshop on collaborative governance. COVID-19 soon interfered with that plan, but now Liz is able to share her insights as a podcast guest instead.

As one of the CEO’s of the Tamarack Institute in Canada, Liz shares her personal story of the first collaborative group she was involved in and how that has influenced Tamarack’s work. Tamarack plays a lead role in guiding a nationwide movement in poverty reduction, youth wellbeing, and climate transitions.

If you've been having one of those demoralising days or weeks where you feel like you are doing this all alone, then this conversation is going to leave you feeling really uplifted.

• Where to even begin when you want to collaborate on a complex problem
• How to pay attention to your context and who is not around the table right now
• The value of starting with a question, rather than a problem, when inviting people to collaborate
• The importance of telling our stories in order to grow a movement.

What does it take to build an engaging organisation? An organisation that is driven by the needs of the people you serve. Where everybody is working in a coordinated way to listen, respect, understand, and partner up with your community.

Today's guest is Michelle Feenan, who has written the course on exactly that.

She's full of stories and powerful questions that will grow an organisation where engagement is the everyday normal.

How can we build the case for engagement? How can we encourage senior leadership to buy into the idea of permanently looking outwards?

Get your pen and paper ready and enjoy this powerful episode!

• What you might need to give up to become more effective with your community engagement
• How to navigate conflict with community members (and the importance of letting go of your need to ‘have the answers’)
• How to identify your own subconscious biases when engaging people from different cultures
• How to identify your organisation’s values and stress test them to see how committed you really are to them.

Our guest today has written five books on facilitation and has worked in environments where the stakes were very high -  like post-apartheid South Africa or in Columbia after 52 years of civil war.

Adam has been on my wishlist to interview ever since I read his first book soon after leaving university. Although you may not be working in the same kind of high-stakes environments as Adam, we can all learn a lot from his thoughtful approach to facilitating change.

Adam believes that facilitation is about everything that you do to help people to work together to affect change. It’s not just about flip charts, sticky notes and whiteboards.

In this episode, we unpack his latest book, Facilitating Breakthrough, where Adam gives us a new framework for thinking about how to enable change.

If you involved in any sort of change work, then this episode is for you.

• The difference between horizontal and vertical facilitation and how to cycle between them.
• How the core of facilitation is removing obstacles to greater contribution; to love, power and justice.
• That the world needs more and better collaboration and therefore more and better facilitation.

Here in Aotearoa New Zealand we’d like to think that we live in a classless society. That anyone can “make it” and that opportunities are equal.

But today's guest, author Max Rashbrooke, has made a career out of unpacking uncomfortable myths such as this. He shows that there are indeed different classes in Aotearoa New Zealand, and that this affects how citizens engage with government.

During our discussion, Max makes the case for a deeper form of democracy and calls for Aotearoa New Zealand to join the wave of deliberative democracy that is spreading across the globe.

How exciting is that?

If you are ready to have your views of our society challenged a bit, this eye-opening episode is for you.

• What are “the Remuera Right” and “the Kilbirnie Left”
• The uncomfortable truth about social classes in Aotearoa New Zealand and what that means for your work
• How to navigate historical distrust from communities
• How the long-term benefits of deliberative democracy far outweigh the (sense of) short-term loss of control for governments.

Recently, I went back and looked at our podcast stats to see what episodes are most popular. Between the top two episodes, there's a pretty clear theme  - you are hungry to learn more about Māori ways of being and engaging.

In theory, collaborative partnerships should move mountains. You share information. Coordinate your activities. Unlock new resources. Share power. You see the whole system and respond - together.

But often these partnerships start with a roar… only to peter out as enthusiasm drops and true collaboration falls through the cracks.

Today’s guest, Henry Pavey, has made a career out of turning around average partnership groups into ones that have a real impact. During our conversation, I realised that the challenges Henry faces in the UK mirror the challenges with these kinds of partnerships here in New Zealand.

Fortunately, Henry has got excellent suggestions for turning around an average partnership. These are based on decades of experiences working inside partnerships and most recently as a strategic partnerships consultant.

My hope for today's episode is that it will inspire you to be the brave person that stands up in your partnership group and says, ‘I think we need a refresh’.

• What commonly holds back partnerships from achieving their potential
• The benefits of thinking of your partnership like an organisation
• Why your partnership probably needs an “engine room”
• How you can turn around a partnership that is just muddling through - with a combination of qualitative and quantitative feedback sought anonymously before a meeting
• The value of continually referring back to your vision and ground rules at the top of every meeting.

15 March 2019 was a dark day in Aotearoa New Zealand, with a terrorist attack on mosques in Christchurch, New Zealand.

Today's show is with Chris Mene, a community engagement practitioner with deep experience engaging communities following trauma.  He played a big role for over 10 years in Christchurch following the earthquakes. His police background has been invaluable in that battleground context.

Deliberative democracy is a topic that has come up more than once on the Beyond Consultation podcast.

I first met Megan when I moved to Nelson five or six years ago. We caught up for a cup of coffee and I was a little bit in awe of some of the stuff she was talking about.

She's one of the core members of Inspiring Communities and has been with the organisation since it started 15 years ago.

In this episode we talk about the changes she’s seen in community-led development during this time.

We also explore Inspiring Communities’ journey as an organization that's made up of European descended New Zealanders who are authentically asking themselves, ‘How can we be of Aotearoa New Zealand?’

This episode is packed with all sorts of mind-altering gold nuggets.

If you're looking for insight into how to navigate the messiness of systems change or involved in community-led development, you are going to love this conversation.

• The nature of cycles, and how we shouldn’t get too stuck on the exciting stuff in the beginning when the real work comes with pushing through.
• How structural response without changing mindsets and practices can only take us so far.
• Why it’s important to think of different ways of enabling participation in what you’re doing.
• How you might authentically grow and nurture a Tangata Tiriti organisation.

Today’s topic was inspired by two things that happened on the morning of recording this episode.

First, our original guest opened up about not being up to the recording session. Life was just too much at that moment.

Second, I was reading this fantastic report called Wellbeing Inspires Well-doing. The report looks at how changemakers’ inner wellbeing influences their work.

These two small things made me realise how important it is to look after your own wellbeing, especially if you are hoping to serve others. In short, if the oxygen mask pops down, make sure you put your own one on before you start helping other people.

It can be really easy to put other people's needs ahead of our own. Even more so now that we find ourselves in lockdown, possibly alongside family and loved ones.

So, if that sounds like something you can relate to, today's episode is for you.

• Why it’s important to put ‘protection barriers’ in place for our own wellbeing
• Six practices that makes navigating complexity easier
• How pausing and doing something for yourself can help you better serve others

I first met today’s guest when we were fellow actors in our local drama production, but she is much more than a former theater colleague.

Deputy Mayor of Nelson City Council, Judene Edgar, really epitomizes what it means to be committed, to going beyond consultation.

Her CV is really lengthy (which we discuss), but safe to say that Judene has perspective from so many different angles!

In this episode we look ahead to the future of local governments because Judene is in the thick of some of the reforms that are coming down the pipeline being potentially taken from councils and transferred to regional organizations .

Within this context, how can you enable local power and local decision making when services are being centralized to improve efficiency through scale?

How do you do engagement and consultation? How do you choose the right media? How do you set expectations realistically? We talk about how to keep yourself healthy and well, when you're driven by service and a need to say yes.

• The importance of scoping the actual problem, instead of finding solutions for the symptoms.
  
• Why it’s important to forge real interpersonal relationships with your community - get out there!
  
• How to keep yourself healthy and well when you’re driven by service.
  
• Why the right media and realistic expectations go a long way to building trust and understanding in your community.