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In Dialogue

In Dialogue

By Jonny Drury
A morphing, unfolding plethora of spontaneous conversations with intriguing and inspiring individuals and groups, revolving round interconnectedness, intersubjectivity, communication, dialogue, sense-making, culture, systems, neurodiversity, education and more... in our increasingly diversifying, fragmenting, fractalizing, fizzing world. LISTEN to genuine, generative, reflective dialogue with your host, Jonny Drury.

Established 2017, UK.
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Katherine Long - Wisdom of Self-Healing Systems

In Dialogue

In Dialogue with Jacob Kishere, Transformative Dialogue facilitator.
Jacob Kishere is a philosopher and practitioner of transformative dialogue: "a practice in which people experience deep listening, meaning, insight & healing". He "creates spaces where we can find coherence and embody wisdom together during a time of civilisational transition". He has a BA in History and an MA in Terrorism, Security & Society.    Jacob designed and runs the courses 'Dialogos & Fellowship' and the 'Men Emerging Initiative' among others and hosts his own podcast channel, SenseSpace.  This personal, explorative interview goes into this first ever meeting of the pair's shared interests of deep dialogue applications, presence philosophy and relational aesthetics, as well as Autism and Sufism.
August 21, 2022
In Dialogue with Klas Orsvärn, dialogue researcher and ex-computer, AI and systems scientist.
Interview conducted between South-West France and Klas' home in Sweden. Klas investigates dialogue and states "My biggest insight from 20+ years of IT entrepreneurship is that we know so little about human cooperation. I believe this lack of understanding contributes to most of the difficulties in organizations, as well as to the crises we see in the world. This issue has been the topic of management research for decades. I'm optimistic about a paradigm shift and feel a mission to contribute.  He spent two years on the multi-disciplinary research programme on complexity in management, founded by Ralph Stacey, at the University of Hertfordshire, UK - rooted in complexity theory, process sociology, pragmatic philosophy, and psychosocial group analysis and who also was instrumental in the founding of Group Analysis, a group therapeutic approach.  Klas investigates how dialogue can emerge between people and what can prevent it, with others who share the interest, researchers and practitioners.
July 08, 2022
Raw discussion with the unique and fabulous, US based autistic coach, Heather Cook.
On her website, Heather says she helps autistic teens and adults to get more comfortable with themselves and others. In this often-moving but always deeply searching and honest interview, she reveals she is much more than a coach and educator.  Heather is one of a kind with a deeply rich history - an autistic professional coach with energy, prowess and a mind as sharp as razors, a registered ICF coach, trained in neuro-somatic mindfulness, interoception, embodiment and trauma awareness.  Hear Heather's personal story including about the rawness of a troubled youth and deep depression, life on the US roads in a self-converted van, the profound wisdom of the chrysalis, and what went down for five years at the USA's only Socratic Dialogue college.  Hear how her life experience, in being brought with rawness and integrity into service in the field, is enabling many others to learn deeply about themselves too.  You'll be glad you listened to this far-reaching conversation at Dialogue Village. Small correction: near the start of the video Heather mentions 'Autism Dialogues' as a group of autistic adults - this is a common small slip many people make - as the approach is all-inclusive - of non-autistic adults too - and this equity design is what the model is based upon.  Heather has sat in many sessions and is aware of this fact and I know it's easy to make this small mistake.  Thanks for your time, Heather!   Jonny : ))
June 30, 2022
In Conversation with Kai Syng Tan
An introduction to the unstoppable Dr Kai Syng Tan FRSA SFHEA Programme Leader, MA/MFA Executive Arts Leadership who's been involved in over 900 shows and who I'm in conversation with here, take a look at the quote below and the website link. This is an improvised, stimulating and hyperactive but relaxed conversation about messy entanglements and tentacularity, no less. Needless to say, the link between contemporary fine arts and dialogue is crucial, as I realised some 12 years ago and find in Kai a kindred spirit... "I use artistic/creative practices and research, interdisciplinary and intercultural dialogues and collaborations as processes of interrogation and expression, to energise, disrupt, connect, and catalyse new conversations towards change. I mobilise the body and mind in motion as modes of creative intervention to trouble and trespass borders/silos/‘norms’ (geopolitical, disciplinary, cultural) amid a world in motion/commotion. Scampering within/between/across crevices and boundaries, I engineer spaces of ‘productive antagonisms’ (Latham and Tan 2016) in a distinctive ‘ill-disciplined’ (Tan & Asherson 2018) approach, gathering diverse and divergent bodies and bodies of knowledge to generate new insights to issues/tasks. There are multiple, overlapping strands, including around: leadership, running, mind wandering and neurodiversity, (im)mobilities and borders, disability, health, gender and technology." - KS Kai is currently working on a project to theorise neurodivergent leadership.
June 29, 2022
What is Dialogue Village? Quick intro by Jonny Drury (founder).
Dialogue Village is an online hub where our amazing, diverse global community (this means YOU!), can converge, relax and communicate in great ways together for a little while on the journey, and leave feeling invigorated, educated, inspired and loved...! All these good things we get from connecting and communicating well. Let’s meet at the Dialogue Village - and put the being back into being human. And the communicating back into community... We hope you enjoy and get the most out of your time in the village. Increasing insight, enhancing communication and celebrating unity in diversity through better Dialogue. SIGN UP NOW at Dialogue Village
June 15, 2022
Katherine Long - Wisdom of Self-Healing Systems
A fascinating insight into patterns in nature and applying the principle of regeneration of self-healing systems into human development. With over 20 years in leadership and organisation development, coach training and supervision, Katherine weaves together a rich harvest of wisdom to support leaders and coaches bring regenerative, living systems principles into life and work.
June 06, 2022
Dialogic interview with Johann Botha
Johann Botha of GSA Mindworks.  Presence, dialogue as social meditation | imagination | integrity meaning undivided whole | Bohm: - approaching coherence | professional and personal life being multi-faceted | restrictions of categorising each other | Alchemy and an upcoming festival in the Namibian desert | genuinely, imaginatively participating and vision sharing | participatory dialogue processes, storytelling & wayfinding conversations....
May 24, 2022
Dr. Matthew Belmonte, autism scientist (MIT, NTU) and nice guy, interview, May 2022, England.
Matthew is a nice guy and I like him, he is a friend I've known for a few years. He's always wearing a long, Indian style chemise when I see him. He has an autistic brother who's never spoken.  He attended several 'Autism Dialogue' group sessions in Sheffield in 2019-2020.  Matthew thought we were just meeting for coffee in Sheffield, England (the banana bread was very nice too) then when I sprung on him I wanted to interview him, he thought for a moment about what we shared in common and then looked towards the intersection between my work in autism dialogue and his life and work.  He has a very interesting take on autism, genetics and the world and this chat had a slightly abstract quality to it because we were more like 'feeling' our way into thinking together, as in genuine dialogue. Indeed, Matthew insightfully explains how generative, equity-based dialogue is a joint exploration that unfolds and enfolds meaning in situ, and allows us to see the subtle, systemic dynamics at play for us, all the time.  I enjoyed listening to him and watching him speak with his glowing face, soft American accent and bright green coat, while the birds sang round us and he pointed out that every person walking by has their own unique story.  - Jonny Drury
May 18, 2022
Interview with Rees Finlay, ‘legendary’ autistic graphic artist.
Interview with Rees Finlay exploring a range of serious & fun topics, mostly around Rees' autism, in a realistic but sensitive way. Rees is about to launch an exciting self-made graphic novella about his journey to diagnosis. 52 mins.
October 09, 2019
Jonathan Drury at The Systemic Practice and Autism Conference
FRIDAY 5TH JULY 2019.  POSTGRADUATE CENTRE, UNIVERSITY OF BEDFORDSHIRE, LUTON, Autism Dialogue’s Jonathan Drury gave a talk at the above event and convened a short dialogue with a range of professionals in the field. Dr. Simon announced that a collection of writings in a book is planned for 2020 and we have been invited to submit a chapter proposal. “There are quite a few systemic practitioners using systemic ways of thinking and communicating with neuro-diverse groups of people. So far, this work is happening in isolated pockets. The intention of this event is to bring together systemic practitioners and create more of a cohesive community of systemic practice and research in this area of lived experience. This conference invites and encourages proposals for presentations which take into account the practices of power in how we use language and how we position ourselves when speaking about our conversations with people. Presenters and workshop hosts are encouraged to adopt an alongside position rather than purely an about-ness position (Shotter 2011).” from Uni of Beds website
July 22, 2019
Interview with Anna Nibbs, autistic adult, parent and education professional.
Anna Nibbs is a Learning and Teaching Enhancement Adviser at the University of Sheffield.  She is autistic.   In this wide-ranging conversation recorded on 3rd May 2019 at Sheffield Hallam University, UK, Anna provides an expert and experiential view of individual and systemic issues in health and well being and inclusion in the workplace.  Also covered is neurodiversity, autistic culture shift, disability models, combatting anxiety, mentoring, leadership and Autism Dialogue, in which Anna has participated since early 2018.   Anna states, “I had a clued up manager who realised my issues were an Occupational Health thing. Her question was what does this person need in order to work well. Regardless of a diagnosis, what does this person need in order to do their job?  That really should be how everything should be, really”   “If the systems are poor and the experience of the workplace is poor, it saps energy and resources which means that there’s less energy available to deliver a good service to the end user. For me as a disabled person, an autistic person, I think that’s a huge thing because so much of our internal resources are sapped away before we’ve even got a chance to use them for the good that we want to bring into the world.”   “There’s a lot of talk about health and wellbeing but a lot of it is sticking plasters that don’t address the systemic cause of low well-being and mental illness among students and staff.’  Dr. Luke Beardon stated Autism + Environment = Outcome, but often the environment is not even paid any heed to.”  “One of the things that I’m interested in, is the skills that disabled people (more generally), but autistic people have, that are being used in ways often just to survive, and to keep safe, and to protect, or look after others in the community, and therefore are not being recognised as something that they’re using professionally.   Things like advocacy, mentoring, coaching and collaboration.  Autistic people are supposed to not be able to do team work and yet you see online the networking, the collaboration, the joint group projects often managed with so limited resources, and if that isn’t team work I don’t know what is!  And actually a lot this stuff is invisible and is not acknowledged for the high level skilled work that it is.  Many workplace practices are not inclusive and not accessible, those skills are being used just to enable that person to get by. And this is the thing about organisational user experience."
May 08, 2019
The Steve Silberman Interview, bestselling author of Neurotribes, The Legacy of Autism and the Future of Neurodiversity
Interview with Steve Silberman, 25th April 2019. (32mins).   The interview, recorded on 24th April 2019, starts with a friendly exchange around common creative interests and alternative art forms. The conversation then moves to examine a perceived autism culture shift, from the wide systemic damage caused by the medical model of disability and Kanner’s default pathologising, to the ever-present fractiousness in the autism community. Extreme imbalances in research outlay and general ignorance are explored, and finally the growing strengths based perspectives and looking hopefully forward to more harmonious, productive dialogue in the autism community... perhaps as Neurotribes!  Steve also makes an exclusive announcement of a new book.  Read the full Autism Dialogue UK report at   Steve Silberman is an award-winning investigative reporter and has covered science and cultural affairs for Wired and other national magazines for more than twenty years. His writing has appeared in The New Yorker, TIME, Nature and Salon. His ground-breaking book on autism, NEUROTRIBES: The Legacy of Autism and How to Think Smarter About People Who Think Differently, won the Samuel Johnson Prize for Non-Fiction 2015 and is a worldwide bestseller. In 2001, he published "The Geek Syndrome," one of the first articles in the mainstream press to probe the complex relationship between autism and genius. The article was praised by experts in the field like neurologist Oliver Sacks and author Temple Grandin.  Steve Silberman is a former teaching assistant for the poet Allen Ginsberg, has won numerous awards over the years for his science coverage in the New Yorker, Nature and many other national and international magazines. Photo credit Mike Mermin.
April 29, 2019
Interview with Holly Bridges, author, keynote speaker, therapist and inventor of the Autism Reframe Technique (A.R.T).
Jonny Drury interviews autism author and practitioner Holly Bridges, prior to departure from Perth, Australia for a working tour to the USA and UK.  In an at times, candid and personal discussion, the pair cover a wide-range of difficult, contemporary (and historical) issues around the phenomenon of autism, the limitations of Western science and language, and try to address some of the deep-seated problems autistic people constantly face in a predominantly medical, deficit-based environment. Holly is a keynote speaker, workshop leader and 1:1 therapist and the founder of an innovative technique which uses the widely respected Polyvagal Theory (Stephen Porges) along with inspiration gained from Anat Baniel's pioneering 'neuromovement'.  Holly starts from the premise that every autistic person can 'upgrade' their mind / body connection, if they are given the right tools and are treated respectfully, positively, and creatively. The beauty of the PVT, Holly says, is that it can explain to autistic people what might be happening for them.  Holly's technique pushes past the ‘glass ceiling’ of autism, reducing the sensory distress and re-engaging awareness of the physical system.  Holly says "I don’t work with how to make autistic people fit into the world, just how to fit into their body better."
March 11, 2019
Interview with Caroline Pakel, creative facilitator, coach and founder of 'To the Heart'.
Caroline Pakel has been working as a creative facilitator, coach and trainer for 15 years, helping individuals, teams, organisations and communities around the world. Before that, she was a cross-cultural qualitative researcher with clients including the Disney companies.  Caroline’s passion is in the facilitation of understanding and change for greater wellbeing, and the production of regenerative solutions for the future. One of the focuses of her work today is about generating authentic and compassionate leadership. She is particularly interested in bringing dialogue tools to the community: helping others open to different ways of being and thinking; helping them connect or re-connect with themselves and others and get involved in and committed to the creation of a more sustainable future, for themselves and for future generations. Caroline will be co-convening the national Autism Dialogue project in Sheffield, UK in 2019. Here we had a great chance to interview her just two weeks before the unique programme started, to get a better understanding of her and her approach and style. Also available as a video. Caroline's website Autism Dialogue Flow Dialogue - website coming soon
March 03, 2019
Part 2 - Autism Dialogue 2018 Conferene
The recordings from Part 2 of the Autism Dialogue Conference, Sheffield, UK, 14th December, 2018. Jennifer Layton Annable – Autism researcher. Panda Mery – Almost too calm neurodivergent researcher. James Pelham – Autscape. Dinah Murray – Participatory Autism Research Collective. Libby Scott – Autistic 10yr old renowned blogger. Kym Scott – Early Years Trainer and Consultant. Lisa Reidy – Sheffield Hallam Autism Research Partnership. Hester Reeve – Reader in Fine Art and Bohm Dialogue tutor, Sheffield Hallam University.
December 30, 2018
Part 1 - 2018 Autism Dialogue Conference - keynote talks.
The Inaugural Conference of Autism Dialogue on 14th December 2018, Sheffield UK. This episode is the keynote speeches from: Jonathan Drury (Autism Dialogue) Jane Ball (co-founder Academy of Professional Dialogue) Carol Povey (Director of the Centre for Autism, National Autistic Society) Anna Nibbs (Learning and Teaching Enhancement Adviser, University of Sheffield)
December 18, 2018