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The Massage Matters Podcast

The Massage Matters Podcast

By Massage Matters
Massage Matters is the podcast that expertly consolidates traditional manual therapies with contemporary evidence based practice.
Presented by The Massage Collective for manual therapists of all backgrounds, this educational show combines hands-on clinical experience, current research and specialist interviews. Our goal is to provide listeners with relevant and up to date knowledge that can be applied in clinic immediately; for better client outcomes and greater Therapist collaboration.
So join Anna Maria, Becky and Matt fortnightly as they dive into the detail around why Massage Matters.
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Session 9 - What Does It Mean To Be Non-Essential?

The Massage Matters Podcast

Session 36 Debating On Social Media
Does a day go by when you don't either see a "debate" occurring on socials, or even find yourself preparing to wade in on one side or another?  Especially in the world of massage and manual therapy, this seems to have become the norm and we at The Massage Collective certainly like to participate too!  But on reflection, what does this achieve?  What do we even think we're setting out to achieve?  And, like some recent papers in Science have questioned, is social media really the best way to be furthering scientific debate when limitations on characters exist and the algorithms involved intentionally limit your audience to those who already have skin in the game?  It certainly makes for an interesting discussion...
June 07, 2022
Social Media for Therapy Business with Katie Warburton
Social Media - now there's a mine field.  As massage therapists we're generally brilliant at what we do - massage!  We never trained in social media.  We've all got profiles on various platforms, but how do you ensure personal and business play nicely and convey the right messaging to potential clients?  Over to Katie Warburton, the ISRM's resident social media guru, soft tissue therapist, owner of Hands On Health ( and all round super woman! Katie takes us through her approach to social media, what she's learnt about what works and what doesn't, and how to avoid being "vanilla" whilst also retaining a professional feel to your content.   If you're interested in finding out more about Katies course, drop her an email at:
May 15, 2022
Social Media - a tool for Education?
Yes, we're back!  After a bit of a break we're back in the "studio" with a new format.  We're now producing 3 pods a month, two short 15 minute sound-bites, ideal for lunch breaks, and one longer form because we just have too much to say!  This month we're diving into Social Media for Massage Therapists, perhaps a bit of a departure from the norm for us but, as we explore in this first short episode, it plays a huge part in how we as therapists learn, grow and interact with both our clients and our colleagues.  Let us know what you think of the new format and we'll see you for the next one!
May 01, 2022
Session 33 - Making Sh*t Up with Greg Lehman
Greg quite literally wrote the course on reconciling biomechanics with modern pain science, and brings to MSK an unique blend of professional qualifications and scientific literacy that makes him an absolute gem!  So of course we jumped at the chance to have him on the podcast for a totally free flowing conversation.  So join us as Greg weaves through topics such as reconceptualising flare-ups of pain, the lack of consistency in sham testing in MSK research, how to discuss adaptability and being confident in the presence of pain. Find more of Greg's content and blogs here, and in particular we highly recommend downloading and reading Greg's Recovery Strategies Pain Guidebook - a great front of house booklet for your clients!
February 20, 2022
Session 32 - San Diego Pain Summit Preview, with Rajam Roose
A 3-day conference in San Diego, during a wet and miserable February back home in England?  Where do we sign up?! Yes, Matt has managed to finagle his way to attending the 2022 San Diego Pain Summit - but what is it, and why is it such an important conference?  Rajam Roose, former massage therapist and founder and CEO of The San Diego Pain Summit, joins The Massage Collective to fill us in on the history of the summit - how it grew from the need for an event where participants could learn clinically relevant applications of pain research, how getting the first years Keynote speaker (Lorimer Moseley!) was a game changer, how the evening hot tubs and fire-pits result in amazing connections (we're looking at you Adam Meakins & Ben Cormack's Better Clinician Project!), plus how this years summit is shaping up to be the most interactive yet - whether you are there in person or joining online from the comfort of your sofa. The back catalogue of talks hosted on the SDPS website is worth its weight in gold, but the aspect that makes this summit so unique is the opportunity for attendees and speakers to network and learn from each other in a relaxed atmosphere like no other.  We highly recommend joining the virtual conference! You can contact Rajam and find out more here; Facebook Twitter
February 06, 2022
Session 31 - Communication in Clinic, with The LD Physio
Communication skills.  One of those "soft skills" that we often give no more than a fleeting thought to - until we realise we lack them in a given context.  And an aspect of clinical practice that is given almost no consideration or air-time in a large proportion of massage related courses.  So after such a strong response to Session 30's CPD focus, where communication skills were discussed as a valuable place to spend some development time, we reached out to one of the experts.  Alistair Beverley is known as The LD Physio because he specialises with working with populations with Learning Disabilities - be that in clinic, through his numerous voluntary roles, or as Head Physio for Team Special Olympics GB.  Passionate about improving the access to quality healthcare for this population, Alistair is on a mission to up-skill the communication skills of all health professionals using what he has learnt over the years.  This podcast episode dives into Ali's background, where he sees the challenges and his top tips for immediately improving the way therapists communicate with clients in clinic.   As mentioned in the podcast, Alistair is hosting a webinar on the 27th of January at 1930 - A Broadbrush Overview 90 minutes covering the essentials of working with those who have a learning disability and how the skills transfer to mainstream practice.  For tickets and further information, use this LINK HERE To find Alistair on social media:  Twitter Facebook
January 23, 2022
Session 30 - Why Bother With CPD?
It's 2022, and rather than suggest all the new and exciting things we all aught to be doing as Therapists in this period of resolutions and "new year, new you" Becky and Matt provide some thoughts on CPD.  Continuing Professional Development (CE for our international colleagues) is such a ubiquitous term in massage therapy that it's intent, and what it entails has almost become lost in the rush to book onto courses and add new modalities to the toolbox.   So taking a leaf from the excellent Jo Turners "You Matter" podcasts latest episode (which you should all go and listen to immediately after this one!) we explore what CPD is for, why we should do it, what counts as CPD, what the most important component of any CPD is, and why this time of year is the perfect time for some self-reflection and planning to inform your 2022 CPD choices
January 09, 2022
Session 29 - Psychologically Informed Practice with Daniel Arbilla
Psychologically Informed Practice - you might have come across the term, but what is it?   How can you start to apply it in clinic?  WHY should you start to apply it in clinic?  Daniel Arbilla is an Exercise Physiologist based in Sydney, Australia and visits the podcast to discuss all this and more with Anna Maria and Matt.      From the similarities and differences between Cognitive Behavioural Therapy (CBT) and Acceptance & Commitment Therapy (ACT), to asking the question, "If someone is riding a horse and they think that it's a unicorn, are they still riding a horse?" this podcast explores how psychology is ever present in the clinical encounter and how our words and our behaviours can greatly impact the outcomes of a session.   We really encourage you to explore more of Daniel's work with The Knowledge Exchange through their website and podcast;   As well as joiningThe Knowledge Exchange Discussion Group:   To see more of what Daniel gets up to in his clinic you can find him on instagram and through the Barbell Psychology Website
December 05, 2021
Session 28 - Why Every Clinic Needs A Personal Trainer with Josh Mullin, Therapy Live Sport 2021
Live from Therapy Live Sport 2021, Matt hosts Josh Mullin (PT Toolbox,, Southend Personal Trainer Academy, as they discuss Why Every Clinic Needs A Personal Trainer.  Covering the similarities and differences between massage and PT disciplines, the challenges of quality education and evidence based practice in each industry, plus the benefits of closer collaboration between PT's and the broader MSK multidisciplinary team approach - this is a chat that will get you up and out, and inviting your local PT for a collaborative coffee!
November 21, 2021
Session 27 - Ben Cormack Asks "What Is "Treatment"?"
With his multimodal approach to musculoskeletal healthcare, Ben Cormack is perfectly suited to diving into the practical and philosophical ideas around the thing we call "treatment".  Whilst we probably all default to the idea that treatment is the modality that we provide to the client (eg massage, dry needles etc), the complexity of the person in pain, their context and their goals means that perhaps we need to reassess exactly what treatment is and how we deliver it in our clinics.  Matt, Anna Maria and Ben cover a wide range of concepts and ideas, ensuring that they deliver practical, applicable advice that can be applied the very next time you see a client.  And if you're interested in learning more from Ben, he is running his fantastic 2-day Therapeutic Movement & Exercise course in Exeter on 5th & 6th February 2022.  Follow the link below for tickets and more details.  Early Bird ticket prices until 30th November! Otherwise be sure to follow Ben and Cor-Kinetic on all the socials;
November 07, 2021
Session 26 - Therapy Expo Preview with Claire Minshull and Mike James
Matt and Anna are joined by Therapy Expo keynote speakers Claire Minshull and Mike James, who share a preview on their upcoming talks, what makes Therapy Expo unique, their advice for planning your time over the two days, and (most importantly) why Mike might be bringing tomatoes to Claire's AMA!  All that plus your 20% discount code for Therapy Expo tickets   About Our Guests Mike James is The Endurance Physio, specialising in the performance and rehabilitation of performance athletes.  If you're not already following his work then find him on twitter @theEndurancePT and on facebook at  His teaching and coaching in this area is second to none, so if you're a therapist or athlete with an interest in endurance sports, you'll be hard pushed to find a better way to spend your time than attending one of his courses - be sure to contact him to find out more.  Claire Minshull is an absolute authority on Strength & Conditioning practices in rehabilitation settings and should be followed on twitter @claire_minshull or on Insta and Facebook @getbacktosport.  Her website hosts her outstanding blog, and is the place to go to view all her online and in-person courses.  Claire's next in-person course is October 30th & 31st at Crossfit Pi in Exmouth - a 2 day education in Strength & Neuromuscular Conditioning for Rehabilitation, find out more here:
October 24, 2021
Session 25 - The Conference Special with Wim Hof, Mark Ormrod, Sarah Jones, Trev Lampshire, Liam Richardson & Shelley Williams
More jam packed than a jam packed sarnie - in this episode we combine two huge in-person events with live recordings and interviews from The Arnold Sports Festival 2021 as well as a preview of Therapy Expo 2021 with event director Shelley Williams and Liam Richardson. Liam and Shelley introduce us this this years Therapy Expo, telling us why it's "our" show and how they are catering for the needs of therapists. They have very kindly provided listeners of The Massage Matters Podcast with a 20% discount on tickets - use MASSAGE20 as the voucher code on checkout. Then we fly back in time to last weekend's extravaganza at The Arnold, where The School and Physio Matters joined forces to provide the event with physiotherapy and soft tissue therapy cover.  Live recordings and interviews with our very own therapy team, motivational speaker Mark Ormrod and the legendary Wim Hof!
October 10, 2021
Session 24 - Introducing Meaningful Movement To Your Practice
Becky throws a question to Matt & Anna Maria, then runs off!  The question; how & why should massage therapists introduce meaningful movement (or exercise, or rehabilitation, or S&C - whatever you want to call it!) to their clients therapy sessions?  So join Anna Maria and Matt as they discuss why you might use different terminology to describe the activity depending on the client, how you can easily adapt the skills you already have, our thoughts on useful basic equipment for your clinic, and why simply adding Meaningful Movement is such a holistically evidence based development to your practice
September 19, 2021
Session 23 - Pain is Stupid! with Kelly Williams
"My pain doesn't need to be the thing that stops me" in this week's episode Becky talks to her sister, Kelly, who has lived with persistent pain since a car accident aged 18. In this honest and open discussion they explore how Kelly's pain has impacted her life, the psychological battles she's faced and the things that have helped her change her relationship with her pain to allow her to live a joyful life and be the mother and role model she's always wanted to be to her wonderful children. Part for the PhysioMatters Network
August 29, 2021
Session 22 - Do You Feel Demonized?
TMC is minus one today as Matt is on a well deserved holiday. Becky and Anna Maria are however joined by Anna s dogs who can t resist to chip in! In this episode we chat or better put, go on a rant about the recently released article from Chad Cook titled "The Demonization of Manual Therapy".  That word Demonization did not sit well with us TMC. We discuss why we believe it is not a useful term when it s in the context of critically evaluating evidence and also why SoMe has a lot to answer for!   We also look at a couple of intersting points Chad Cook makes in his article about evidence surrounding self efficacy and the famous "window of opportunity". This is a content full episode, some of topics in which we may have to revisit as a podcast in their own right.
August 08, 2021
Session 21 - Frozen Shoulder
As TMC we love the opportunities we get to chat to many therapists with clinical queries, and Frozen Shoulder is one that seems to have come up a lot recently.  So today we dive in and review it from the perspective of Soft Tissue Therapists; What is it? What are the flags for referral? Is adhesive capsulitis (as it's commonly referred to) a useful term? What are the signs and symptoms and how do they change over time?  And of course, how can Soft Tissue Therapists best support their clients who are experiencing stiff and painful shoulders?   Come and join us for a seriously applicable, clinical conversation...
July 25, 2021
Session 20 - Born To Walk, with James Earls
Finally allowed to meet our guests face to face, Anna Maria and Becky head to Bristol to meet up with and interview James Earls for his website CLICK HERE  James brings us up to speed with his studies, and discusses his approach to teaching human movement from the combined knowledge of the soft tissues and the skeleton.  This is a unique yet entirely sensible approach, as we often consider the tissues, if not separately, then certainly within silos or areas of expertise.  Indeed this has led James to his current research in evolutionary anatomy.  Through this James is deriving understanding of present day efficient movement strategies based on the evolving anatomy of our ancestors to where we are today.  We discuss anthropology, the Biotensegrity model, the flaws in how anatomy is commonly taught and if our approach to learning leads therapists to want to fit clients to models, rather than the other way around.   James is hosting his Born to Walk and Born to Move courses with The School later this year.  For more information CLICK HERE 
July 04, 2021
Session 19 - Massage Matters, But Does Specificity?
Live from Therapy Live 2021, The Massage Collective are joined by Paul Coker asking the question - do different modalities really differ in their effects, and how specific can we really be in addressing tissues? Moderated by the fabulous Katie Knapton this is a deep dive into some neurology surrounding our use of adjuncts...
June 20, 2021
Session 18 - Exploring Thai Massage
Thai Massage?  Certainly not a usual topic for The Massage Collective!  Or is it?  Join us as we explore the history of this ancient practice and reflect on how elements from it may be relevant in a modern, client centred approach, and why it could be a great idea to have a toolbox of approaches to providing therapeutic touch...
June 06, 2021
Session 17 - The beginning of the end of level 3?
The SMA (The Association for Soft Tissue Therapists) recently emailed their members to inform them that from now on, the level 3 qualification will not be accepted for full memberships.  It's fair to say the response has been mixed - "how dare they?", "who cares?", "does this even help improve the industry?" - all questions we've seen be asked in response.  Naturally we invited the SMA to come and speak with us on the podcast, but with the invitation politely declined The Massage Collective instead provide their views on the issue. Perhaps instead of punishing the therapists,  we aught to be taking a much closer look at how fit for purpose the educators and their syllabuses are... This Podcast is part of the PhysioMatters Network
May 16, 2021
Session 16 - Session 16 - When Bronnie
Bronnie Lennox Thompson initially trained as an occupational therapist, graduating 1984, and later completed her Psychology MSc in 1999.  In 2015 Bronnie was awarded her PhD. Bronnie has worked in pain management for most of her clinical career, with her primary focus on pain management at work. She has practiced in a huge variety of interdisciplinary pain management programmes, and her main interest areas include pain and anxiety, motivation for self-management, resilience and daily coping choices. So we couldn't really not have her on right?!  Having just recorded a wonderful CPD course with her, Anna Maria and Matt found ourselves heading deep into conversation, late into the night, and just had to turn it into a podcast.  We cover a huge range of topics, from UK Massage Therapy Education to Clinical Communication Skills and even Matt's mood lighting that he had on during's all there! For more on Bronnie please do visit her incredible blog - and in particular her courses, she's just awesome!
May 02, 2021
Session 15- NICE Guidelines and Ice Cream
The NICE Guidelines for Chronic Primary Pain were released on April 7th and it's fair to say that, as usual, there's much to discuss.  So that's what Matt & Becky have done, diving into the detail and its relevance to Massage Therapists covering the good, the bad, and the ice cream.  Ice cream?!  Yep, there's an analogy there...
April 18, 2021
Session 14 - Exercise for Pain Relief with Daniel Lawrence
Exercise for pain relief.  It's a thing, even if it's hard to convince your clients that's the case.  So what is leading to this analgesia when we exercise, how much do we need to do in order to benefit from its pain relieving effects and how do we explain it to clients in order to increase compliance?  For Session 14 we thought we'd call on a chap who is literally writing the book on this, Daniel Lawrence.  We discuss Daniel's book whilst diving into specific chapters, segue into "Long Covid" and pop back out the other side with a reference to Scrubs.  A normal Massage Collective podcast then.  Daniel is a Physiotherapist with a huge background in MSK including 10 years as a university lecturer, being an accomplished author and both sitting on the board and being lead educator for RockTape UK.  You can find out more about Daniel's latest course, Exercise for Pain Relief here -
April 04, 2021
Session 13 - Evidence Informed Manual Therapy During and Post-Pregnancy LIVE
The Massage Matters Team once again took the stage LIVE at TherapyLive Pelvic Health and smashed it out of the park talking all about manual therapies during and post pregnancy. So much ground covered with so much left to cover too!  If you want to sign up for the event click here Remember to subscribe and rate the show 
March 21, 2021
Session 12 - Pronouncing Spondyloarthritis: Rheumatology with Jack March
Despite us often struggling to pronounce them, it's incredibly important that massage therapists are able to recognise the red flags associated rheumatological conditions, and then understand how best to support a client who has received a diagnosis. Today Jack March ( joins us to explore the Do's and Don't's of manual therapy in these conditions, educate us on some of the misunderstandings frequently encountered by massage therapists, and, most importantly, correct our pronunciation! Jack is exploring this deeper in a special 3-hour webinar for The School ( on April 28th 2021 - tickets are available here:
March 07, 2021
Session 11 - Graded Exposure - From Firefighter to Therapist with Jamie Johnston
Jamie Johnston, RMT in Victoria, Canada, creator of The Massage Therapist Development Centre (, advocate for evidence informed practice in massage and ice hockey obsessive, joins The Massage Collective for this wide ranging episode.   In it we discuss Jamie's background that brought him to studying Massage having never received one himself, the importance of narratives, the crucial role of graded exposure in the rehabilitation of painful conditions, and why international collaboration is so important in helping massage therapy achieve the recognition it deserves.   You can find out more about Jamie, the courses he teaches and his membership group by visiting and signing up to the mailing list  Jamie has also launched his own podcast in collaboration with Eric Purves which we urge you to listen to here:
February 21, 2021
Session 10 - Scope & Skills Session 1: Recognising Red Flags
We love a good rabbit hole to dive down and discuss!  After running a course recently (with our tutoring hats) the feedback really got us to thinking about definitions around Scopes of Practice and Skillsets of Massage Therapists.  So join us as we start this inevitably haphazard series of discussions with our first, on Recognising Red Flags.
February 07, 2021
Session 9 - What Does It Mean To Be Non-Essential?
With massage therapists being told not to work in Lockdown 3.0, The Massage Collective get a bit deep discussing what it means to be regarded as a "non-essential" service, touching on our role in helping people thrive, industry qualifications, the regulation question and professional associations....
January 17, 2021
Session 8 - Clinical Application of Pain Science with Eric Purves
In the last 20 years our understanding of pain science has moved on leaps and bounds, how can we ensure that we maximise this knowledge and put it into practice to best serve our clients in pain?    Eric Purves, MSc, RMT, has dedicated his career to translating research and evidence into his clinical practice as a registered massage therapist and as an educator.  Today he joins The Massage Collective to discuss his background in psychology, being less wrong, touching people nicely and vomiting pain science...   Eric is running his online course; Clinical Applications of Pain Science for Massage Therapists for UK based therapists on 9th March 2021 - This podcast is part of the Physio Matters Network
January 03, 2021
Session 7 - Fitting Your Own Oxygen Mask First with Jo Turner
Jo Turner joins The Massage Collective in the metaphorical studio to reflect on 2020 as a therapist, and to share her wealth of Life Coaching skills.  Jo discusses why it's so important to consciously wind down at this time of year, to reflect on our wins, and how to go about planning 2021 in a sustainable way.  As therapists we automatically hold other people, especially our clients, as higher priority than ourselves.  But sometimes, in order to be the best for your clients, you need to be the best to yourself first.
December 20, 2020
Session 6 - Integrating research & clinical practice with Dr Sasha Chaitow
The Massage Collective welcome their first actual guest!  Following Session 4 where we discussed MET we're delighted that Dr Sasha Chaitow, daughter of Leon Chaitow, has joined us to discuss her fathers legacy before diving into her own fascinating work in education, clinical integration of evidence, and how we should spend more time reflecting on asking the right questions. This Podcast is Part of the Physio Matters Network, for early releases and lots more bonuses join the PhysioMattersPlus Community here:
December 06, 2020
Session 5 - Massage for Recovery at TherapyLive Sport
Recorded live at the TherapyLive Sport conference! The team discuss massage for recovery. How might it work, what might it do and how should it be applied. Another brilliant session from the team! Make sure you subscribe so you never miss an episode. Part of the Physio Matters Network - Become a member here for early releases and bonus content
November 15, 2020
Session 4 - Making the Most of METs
METs, Muscle Energy Techniques.  Often regarded as Advanced Techniques in massage therapy, today The Massage Collective dive into the history, the current evidence and the best practice for this commonly used modality.  And we dig up stuff that comes as a bit of a surprise! This is a Physio Matters Production
November 01, 2020
Session 3 - Practical Pain Science
Pain Science and the Biopsychosocial model are not new concepts in general, but may be new to some therapists.  So in this episode The Massage Collective provide a brief overview before discussing how manual therapists can make practical use of these evidence based approaches within their approach to client centred care. Don't forget to subscribe so you never miss an episode! This Podcast is a PhysioMatters Production
October 18, 2020
Session 2 - Mental Massage
Whilst busting massage myths is definitely in vogue (and for good reason!) today The Massage Collective are diving into the evidence for one particularly well-documented massage treatment outcome.   From this we discuss what massage is most likely to be doing for our clients and, perhaps more importantly, how massage can be applied in a contemporary, biopsychosocial and client centred approach without the BS... Find The Massage Collective on Facebook and join in the conversation. This Podcast is a Physio Matters Production
October 04, 2020
Session 1 - It's All In The Nerves
In this inaugural episode, The Massage Collective dive straight into the contemporary explanations for what is going on under the hands of the massage therapist during a treatment.  Exploring our understanding of therapeutic touch on the nervous system and the resilience of body tissues to physical change by manual therapy, we also make sure that you end up with some key takeaways for clinical practice. Don't forget to subscribe for notifications on new releases of the show. Find us on Facebook and instagram - @the_massagecollective and lets continue this conversation! This Podcast is Physio Matters Production
September 20, 2020
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September 02, 2020