The Modern People Leader: Forward-Thinking HR
By The Modern People Leader
Build - How to Hire for People Ops as a Product: Jessica Zwaan (Author, Built for People)
Jessica Zwaan joined us again on The Modern People Leader to break down how to hire for a people ops as a product team.
She shared the 5 core skillsets needed, the importance of t-shaped talent, and how to use case studies to spot product thinking in HR Candidates.
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(04:37) What We’re Talking About – Hiring for PeopleOps as a Product teams
(05:07) Core Skill Sets Breakdown – Planning, testing, research, building, human ops
(07:35) Most Underrated Skill – Why planning is a secret weapon
(09:14) Testing vs. Research – Bias, data, and design decisions
(10:19) Jessica’s Strengths – Building and testing as her personal edge
(14:07) Hiring Strategy – What to prioritize if you can only hire one
(16:45) Dropbox’s Top Talent Traits – Anti-admin, pro-outcome problem-solvers
(20:26) “Spike” Explained – Understanding T-shaped superpowers
(21:03) The Shift in HR – From compliance-heavy to problem-solving ops
(23:59) Outdated Metrics – Why perfect completion isn’t the goal
(25:46) Case Study Interviews – New hiring methods for a new model
(27:31) Good Case Study Topics – Onboarding, promotions, ambiguity
(29:22) Test Structure – Paid projects, presentation flexibility, feedback dynamics
(31:00) Nuanced Case Study Design – Testing ambiguity tolerance
(33:02) Screening Interviews – Signals to look for and questions to ask
(36:08) Guide Overview – Scorecards, templates, and examples included
(37:05) The One-Year Outlook – What your team should look like after hiring this way
(38:01) Biggest Myth – Great talent is already in traditional HR
(39:25) Early Mistakes – The case study drop-off and misaligned recruiting
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Past guests on MPL include Brené Brown, Annie Dean (VP of Team Anywhere, Atlassian), Josh Bersin, Katie Burke (Chief People Officer, Harvey), Liz Fosslien, Helen Russell (Chief People Officer, HubSpot), Dave Scott (Chief People Officer, ADT), Melanie Rossenwasser (Chief People Officer, Dropbox), Crystal Boysen (Chief People Officer, Sprout Social), and many more.
232: The Modern Compensation Playbook: Matt McFarlane (Director, FNDN) & Haris Ikram (Co-Founder & CEO, CandorIQ)
Matt McFarlane and Haris Ikram joined us for a live session to break down everything modern HR leaders need to know about compensation—from philosophy and strategy to pay transparency and AI tools.
Together, they shared a forward-thinking playbook for tackling merit cycles, aligning job architecture, and driving better employee experiences through data and design.
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(04:00) Why Compensation Now? – The narrative HR leaders are sharing
(06:30) Comp is Still Broken – Transparency, tech, and rising expectations
(08:30) Gen Z and the Value Prop Shift – Employment has changed
(10:00) Making Pay Make Sense – Linking compensation to performance
(13:00) Real-World Comp Challenges – From spreadsheets to strategy
(15:30) Global Comp Complexity – APAC, logistics, high- and low-tech roles
(17:00) Job Architecture's Role – Why it’s foundational to HR today
(20:30) Rapid Fire: The Comp Playbook – Philosophy, strategy, equity, benchmarking
(32:00) Tech for Comp Teams – Centralized data, manager enablement, and AI insights
(42:00) Rethinking Merit Cycles – What modern comp reviews should look like
(47:00) Manager Training & Transparency – Empowering leaders with the right tools
(53:00) Total Rewards Experience – From offer letters to ongoing employee clarity
(58:30) Final Thoughts & One-Word Close – Key takeaways from the session
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Past guests on MPL include Brené Brown, Annie Dean (VP of Team Anywhere, Atlassian), Josh Bersin, Katie Burke (Chief People Officer, Harvey), Liz Fosslien, Helen Russell (Chief People Officer, HubSpot), Dave Scott (Chief People Officer, ADT), Melanie Rossenwasser (Chief People Officer, Dropbox), Crystal Boysen (Chief People Officer, Sprout Social), and many more.
231 - Organizational Network Analysis Explained: Abby Brennan, Former Head of People Strategy & Operations at Carta
Abby Brennan joined us on The Modern People Leader.
We discussed the power of ONA as the “shadow org chart,” how it reveals hidden influencers, and why it may be key to building smarter, more connected teams in the age of AI.
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Sponsor Links:
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(06:30) Abby’s Career Path – From CPA to PwC's Chief Purpose Office to People Ops at Carta
(13:00) Sabbatical & Career Reset – Reflections on alignment, values, and inertia
(15:30) Her time at Carta – Leading 6 People Ops functions and managing hypergrowth
(19:00) Experiencing a RIF – Abby’s personal and professional learnings from layoff
(24:15) What is ONA? – Introducing Organizational Network Analysis as the “shadow org chart”
(28:30) ONA in Action – Discoveries from Carta’s network visualizations
(35:10) AI & The Future of HR – ONA as a strategic lens for effectiveness, not just efficiency
(43:00) ONA Output & Use Cases – How managers and orgs can act on the data
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Past guests on MPL include Brené Brown, Annie Dean (VP of Team Anywhere, Atlassian), Josh Bersin, Katie Burke (Chief People Officer, Harvey), Liz Fosslien, Helen Russell (Chief People Officer, HubSpot), Dave Scott (Chief People Officer, ADT), Melanie Rossenwasser (Chief People Officer, Dropbox), Crystal Boysen (Chief People Officer, Sprout Social), and many more.
Build - How to structure a “People Ops as a Product team”
Jessica Zwaan joined us again on The Modern People Leader to unpack how to structure a people ops as a product team.
She shared four ways to build an HR squad, how to use a spider diagram for squad design, and why it’s smart to pilot just one squad first.
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(04:38) MPL Build is Live: First Five Posts & Call for Feedback
(05:40) Topic Intro: Structuring Teams for PeopleOps as a Product
(06:05) Skillset Shifts & Misconceptions Around “Restructuring”
(07:27) The “Squad” Model Explained: Origins, Roles, & Purpose
(10:05) What a Real Squad Looks Like in HR
(11:11) Assigning Roles Within Squads Based on Skill Spikes
(13:05) Spider Diagrams & Skill Mapping for Balanced Teams
(15:26) Aligning Squads to Initiatives, Funnels, or Metrics
(17:54) Alternatives to Funnels: Focusing on Metrics & Experience
(18:44) Adapting for Smaller Teams: Prioritizing Problems with Impact
(19:33) Balancing Squad Work with Core HR (“HumanOps”) Duties
(21:01) Real-World Squad Splits: Immediate Needs vs. Futureproofing
(23:02) Solving Root Problems to Avoid Endless Hiring Loops
(24:38) The Importance of a Shared Mission Across Squads
(25:07) Working in Sprints vs. Continuous Delivery in PeopleOps
(26:47) Measuring Progress & Reporting: Squad Leads vs. Line Managers
(28:51) Real Example: How Jessica’s Partner’s ML Team Uses Squads
(30:17) Career Progression in Squads: The “Entrepreneurial” Path
(32:49) Jessica on Preferring Projects Over People Management
(34:26) The Role of VP People or CHRO as “Chief Product Officer”
(35:10) Dropbox Example: Leading Culture Through Squad Strategy
(36:59) Coaching Mid-Level HR Team Members Through the Transition
(38:13) Addressing Career Anxiety & Skill Development in New Roles
(40:20) Challenges of Implementing Squads in Large Enterprises
(42:41) Practical Skills, Organizational Resistance & MVP Delivery
(44:23) Piloting with a Positive Halo Squad: Agile Rollouts That Stick
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Past guests on MPL include Brené Brown, Annie Dean (VP of Team Anywhere, Atlassian), Josh Bersin, Katie Burke (Chief People Officer, Harvey), Liz Fosslien, Helen Russell (Chief People Officer, HubSpot), Dave Scott (Chief People Officer, ADT), Melanie Rossenwasser (Chief People Officer, Dropbox), Crystal Boysen (Chief People Officer, Sprout Social), and many more.
229 - The Founder's Mentality at Nextdoor: Bryan Power (Head of People, Nextdoor)
Bryan Power, Head of People at Nextdoor, joined us on The Modern People Leader.
We talked about how the company is navigating its “third era” under the return of co-founder Nirav Tolia. We explored “The Founders Mentality”, embracing an owner’s mindset, and Nextdoor’s AI bootcamp.
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(03:55) Bryan's story: From recruiter to dot-com era to Square and Yahoo
(09:40) Dot-com crash, pivot to outplacement services, joining Google
(11:58) Post-Google reflections: Joining Square, Yahoo, then Nextdoor
(15:22) How Nextdoor makes money & unique value of neighbor-based networks
(17:29) Impact of tariffs on ad-driven business models
(18:48) Segue to "Nextdoor's three eras" framework
(20:30) Era 1 to Era 3: Cultural and operational transformations
(24:51) Pitfalls and learnings from founder return transitions
(28:29) Founder's Mentality: The framework that guides Era 3
(31:21) Insurgency, frontline obsession & owner's mindset explained
(33:31) Nextdoor’s AI experiments and new company rhythms
(36:55) When founders should stay deeply involved
(39:15) How HR can operationalize the Founder’s Mentality
(42:58) Simplifying leadership layers to regain focus and speed
(47:13) AI bootcamps & the future of people team productivity
(50:03) “Prompt pantry” inspiration and scalable personal learning
(53:34) AI as co-pilot vs. replacement: New expectations for employees
(55:28) People Ops as a product
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Past guests on MPL include Brené Brown, Annie Dean (VP of Team Anywhere, Atlassian), Josh Bersin, Katie Burke (Chief People Officer, Harvey), Liz Fosslien, Helen Russell (Chief People Officer, HubSpot), Dave Scott (Chief People Officer, ADT), Melanie Rossenwasser (Chief People Officer, Dropbox), Crystal Boysen (Chief People Officer, Sprout Social), and many more.
Build - Nobody gets People Ops as a Product 100% right (and that’s ok): Jessica Zwaan (Author, Built for People)
Jessica Zwaan, COO at Talentful and author of Built for People, joined us on The Modern People Leader.
We talked about “human ops” versus “people ops”, the sprint planning process for her people team, and how nobody gets people ops as a product 100% right (and that’s ok).
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Sponsor Links:
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MPL Links:
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(05:43) The Trap of Perfection & Self-Compassion in HR and Life
(07:55) Excitement Over MPL Build Launch
(08:45) Revisiting Jessica’s OG Blog on PeopleOps vs HumanOps
(11:07) Defining the 3 Products: Shareholder, Consumer, and Employee Experience
(12:58) What is HumanOps vs PeopleOps? A Practical Framework
(15:04) Naming Regrets & Semantics of HR Frameworks
(16:46) Evolving the Playbook: How AI Has Changed PeopleOps
(18:30) AI in Action: Where Do Benefits and Chatbots Fit?
(21:58) Efficiency Through AI: Freeing Time for High-Impact Work
(24:19) HumanOps Litmus Test: Is a Human Presence Still Valuable?
(25:59) Real Example: Productizing Performance Calibration
(28:47) Healthy Split: How to Balance HumanOps vs PeopleOps
(30:25) Agile Practices in HR: Sprints, Retros, and Planning
(33:50) Tools & Structure for Sprint Execution in Small Teams
(35:17) Addressing Misconceptions: Perfection vs Iteration
(39:25) Metrics and MVPs: Doing the Best You Can is Enough
(43:07) Common Questions: “Is Anyone Else Doing This?” and “What if I’m a Team of One?”
(44:30) From Blog to Book: Scaling the Framework in Small HR Teams
(48:17) Recap & One-Word Closes: Self-Compassion, Gasbagging, Cathartic
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Past guests on MPL include Brené Brown, Annie Dean (VP of Team Anywhere, Atlassian), Josh Bersin, Katie Burke (Chief People Officer, Harvey), Liz Fosslien, Helen Russell (Chief People Officer, HubSpot), Dave Scott (Chief People Officer, ADT), Melanie Rossenwasser (Chief People Officer, Dropbox), Crystal Boysen (Chief People Officer, Sprout Social), and many more.
227 - How to build AI workflows for HR: Taylor Bradley (VP, Talent Strategy & Success, Turing)
Taylor Bradley, VP of Talent Strategy and Success at Turing, joined us on The Modern People Leader.We talked about why every HR team needs to create an AI “prompt pantry”, how Turing “AI’d” their way out of onboarding 800 employees in five days, and how to build AI workflows for HR.
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Sponsor Links:
🔗 Download the State of Teams 2025 Report from Atlassian.
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MPL Links:
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(05:43) Taylor’s Unlikely HR Origin Story: From Paramedic to People Leader
(08:19) Real-Life Delivery & Skills from the Field Applied to HR
(10:14) Risk Frameworks in Emergency Response Now Power HR Decisions
(11:11) Segue to AI & Turing's Mission Explained in Plain Language
(13:44) Explosive Growth at Turing & The AGI Boom Post-ChatGPT
(16:52) The AI Education Gap in HR & Why Prompting is the New Power Skill
(17:42) Building the “Prompt Pantry” and a Culture of Experimentation
(20:17) Making Prompting Practical: From Docs to Voice Interfaces
(24:34) Why GenAI Makes Work More Enjoyable & The Joy of Mastery
(26:31) Blitzscaling at Turing: Emotions, Lessons & Focus
(28:36) How Turing Built “Allen”: Async Learning in 48 Hours
(31:21) Iterating with AI Voices & Learning Design at Scale
(33:38) Allen’s Second Form: 52K Tickets and Agentic Support
(35:17) Stephen’s AI Use Story + Clarifying What Agentic Really Means
(37:22) What Agentic HR Actually Looks Like in Practice
(39:48) Building Custom AI Tools for HR: Turing’s R&D Playbook
(42:28) Training GPTs with Empathy: Linguistics & Feedback Loops
(44:51) AI’s Disruption of the HR Job Market: An Optimist’s Take
(47:01) Managing AI Agents as the New HR Org Design
(50:04) What Will Finally Tip Lagging Companies Into AI Adoption
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Past guests on MPL include Brené Brown, Annie Dean (VP of Team Anywhere, Atlassian), Josh Bersin, Katie Burke (Chief People Officer, Harvey), Liz Fosslien, Helen Russell (Chief People Officer, HubSpot), Dave Scott (Chief People Officer, ADT), Melanie Rossenwasser (Chief People Officer, Dropbox), Crystal Boysen (Chief People Officer, Sprout Social), and many more.
226 - The 3 secrets to teamwork in 2025: Molly Sands (Head of the Teamwork Lab, Atlassian)
Molly Sands, Head of the Teamwork Lab at Atlassian, joined us on The Modern People Leader.
We talked about Atlassian’s latest research on the three things the best teams do differently, the power of unleashing collective knowledge, and why distributed teams have a headstart on AI adoption.
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(05:30) Molly’s Journey: From Social Psychology to Head of Teamwork Lab at Atlassian
(10:53) Day-to-Day at Teamwork Lab: Researching & Experimenting with Teams Globally
(12:50) How Atlassian Prioritizes Research & Addresses Team Challenges
(17:32) State of Teams Report 2025: The Three Key Practices of Top Teams
(23:10) Unleashing Collective Knowledge: What It Looks Like at Scale
(30:33) The AI Paradigm Shift: Why Remote-First Teams Have the Advantage
(38:10) Agentic Solutions: Can AI Agents Really Automate Team Workflows Today?
(42:46) Real AI Applications: Atlassian’s Nora Agent for Onboarding & Beyond
(48:28) Advice for People Leaders: Start Small with AI & Empower Experimentation
(50:04) Rapid Fire: Molly’s Career Advice, Superpower, and Strategy to Steal
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Past guests on MPL include Brené Brown, Annie Dean (VP of Team Anywhere, Atlassian), Josh Bersin, Katie Burke (Chief People Officer, Harvey), Liz Fosslien, Helen Russell (Chief People Officer, HubSpot), Dave Scott (Chief People Officer, ADT), Melanie Rossenwasser (Chief People Officer, Dropbox), Crystal Boysen (Chief People Officer, Sprout Social), and many more.
225 - Pat Wadors (CHRO, Intuitive) on amplifying the “golden nuggets” of your culture
Pat Wadors, CHRO at Intuitive, joined us on The Modern People Leader.
We talked about how to find and amplify the golden nuggets of your culture, the three layers of a great employee experience, why you need to “touch the elephant”, and what kids’ stories can teach us about leadership.
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🔗 Buy your ticket for MPL Live San Francisco.
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(05:48) Pat’s 18-Month Update: New Role, Book Launch, and Life Shift
(13:55) What is Intuitive? The Da Vinci System & MedTech Innovation
(18:34) How It Works: Da Vinci, AI Feedback & Remote Surgeries
(21:02) Culture Work: Merging Two Cultures & The Player-Coach Model
(25:20) Us vs. Them: Culture Nuance, Middleware & Global Complexity
(28:51) Finding the Golden Nuggets: How to Identify Cultural Truths
(31:28) Mapping Culture: From Aspirational Values to Operational Change
(33:41) Origin Story & Its Role in Company Culture
(35:08) Becoming an Archaeologist: Crafting a Cohesive Narrative
(38:49) How to Make Culture Measurable: The CEO Buy-In
(41:04) Building MPL Culture: Rigor, Humor, and Platform Principles
(45:00) Touch the Elephant: Bias, Context & Emotional Intelligence
(46:51) Why Pat Wrote the Book: Fables, Storytelling & Self-Awareness
(51:45) Pat’s Book Picks: Mulan, Goldilocks & the Lessons Behind Them
(58:16) The Bat Phone: Parenting Advice & Living Your Values
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Past guests on MPL include Brené Brown, Annie Dean (VP of Team Anywhere, Atlassian), Josh Bersin, Katie Burke (Chief People Officer, Harvey), Liz Fosslien, Helen Russell (Chief People Officer, HubSpot), Dave Scott (Chief People Officer, ADT), Melanie Rossenwasser (Chief People Officer, Dropbox), Crystal Boysen (Chief People Officer, Sprout Social), and many more.
Build - Jessica Zwaan: Story behind her obsession w/ People Ops as a Product
Jessica Zwaan returned to The Modern People Leader for a deep dive on how her PeopleOps as a Product philosophy came to life. We talked about the early days of the framework, writing her book, and the launch of MPL Build — a new collaboration between MPL and Jessica to bring the methodology to more teams.
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(08:12) Where Jessica first discovered PeopleOps as a product in the wild
(10:24) The blog post that changed everything
(12:45) Why the 2020 timing was perfect for this framework
(14:19) Turning the blog into a book — thanks to Lars Schmidt
(18:33) Early examples of building squads and roadmaps
(21:18) Launching a full apprenticeship program in just 12 weeks
(22:46) Did the skeptics show up? And how have attitudes changed?
(25:36) The most surprising feedback from the community
(30:12) How big could this get? Is there a limit to who this works for?
(32:29) Why the U.S. is catching up to Europe in adopting this framework
(34:18) The original MPL mission: reaching 100M employees
(36:12) Announcing MPL Build: our first expert-led program from MPL Academy
(39:51) How this partnership came together and why it’s a perfect match
(42:53) Why Jesse is excited about MPL Academy and Build
(45:29) The power of a complementary team
(47:00) What’s coming next: AMA-style episodes, two paths for learners, and tons of resources
(50:43) One word close
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Past guests on MPL include Brené Brown, Annie Dean (VP of Team Anywhere, Atlassian), Josh Bersin, Katie Burke (Chief People Officer, Harvey), Liz Fosslien, Helen Russell (Chief People Officer, HubSpot), Dave Scott (Chief People Officer, ADT), Melanie Rossenwasser (Chief People Officer, Dropbox), Crystal Boysen (Chief People Officer, Sprout Social), and many more.
223 - Shane Koller (Chief People Officer, Ancestry): Running your People Team like a Product Team
Shane Koller joined us on The Modern People Leader. We talked about adopting a product mindset in HR, how Ancestry’s people team built their “product roadmap”, and why even great HR programs fall short when they’re not connected.
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(07:35) Shane’s journey from psychology to Chief People Officer
(10:31) How Ancestry became the leader in family history and genomics
(13:13) Powerful storytelling: Connecting people with their family histories
(15:51) The moment Shane realized HR should run like a product team
(22:07) Adopting a shareholder mindset within the People function
(27:27) Identifying and prioritizing employee experience moments that matter
(33:15) Measuring success: Key metrics for people teams
(36:55) Restructuring the HR team to operate like a product organization
(43:45) Why CEO alignment is crucial for transforming HR
(47:06) Lessons learned from Ancestry’s "fail fast" moments
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📬 Subscribe to our weekly newsletter to get episode recaps
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Past guests on MPL include Brené Brown, Annie Dean (VP of Team Anywhere, Atlassian), Josh Bersin, Katie Burke (Chief People Officer, Harvey), Liz Fosslien, Helen Russell (Chief People Officer, HubSpot), Dave Scott (Chief People Officer, ADT), Melanie Rossenwasser (Chief People Officer, Dropbox), Crystal Boysen (Chief People Officer, Sprout Social), and many more.
222 - Michele Bousquet (Chief People Officer, Strava): Stop overcomplicating HR
Michele Bousquet joined us on The Modern People Leader. We talked about her career journey, leading with heart, and why HR shouldn’t be so complicated.
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(08:41) Michele’s career journey: From temp to Chief People Officer
(14:45) Lessons from navigating adversity and leading with heart
(21:52) The importance of authenticity and listening in leadership
(24:14) How Strava’s people team fosters human connection
(29:59) Simplifying HR: Leading with common sense and empathy
(35:18) Data-driven decisions: Using data with purpose and insight
(39:16) Rewarding and retaining talent through human connection
(43:53) Human-centered HR: Managing people teams like a product
(47:54) The power of people-focused leadership at Strava
(54:39) Employee Resource Groups (ERGs) and building community
(58:02) Handling tough situations with honesty and compassion
----
📬 Subscribe to our weekly newsletter to get episode recaps
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----
Past guests on MPL include Brené Brown, Annie Dean (VP of Team Anywhere, Atlassian), Josh Bersin, Katie Burke (Chief People Officer, Harvey), Liz Fosslien, Helen Russell (Chief People Officer, HubSpot), Dave Scott (Chief People Officer, ADT), Melanie Rossenwasser (Chief People Officer, Dropbox), Crystal Boysen (Chief People Officer, Sprout Social), and many more.
221 - Caregivers are stretched thin. It’s time we paid attention: Michael Walsh (CEO, Cariloop)
Michael Walsh, CEO of Cariloop, joined us on The Modern People Leader.
We discussed the caregiving challenges facing employees today, how companies can better support working caregivers, and the data-backed insights from Cariloop’s Top Needs Report.
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🔗 Download Cariloop’s 2025 Employee Caregiver Top Needs Report.
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(7:20) How Michael's personal experience with caregiving sparked the idea for Cariloop
(19:37) Why employers need to rethink caregiving support
(27:43) Why caregiving stigma persists at work
(38:46) The top caregiving challenges right now
(55:50) Making the business case for caregiver support
(01:01:22) Rapid Fire Questions
(01:04:13) One Word or Phrase Close
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📬 Subscribe to our weekly newsletter to get episode recaps
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Past guests on MPL include Brené Brown, Annie Dean (VP of Team Anywhere, Atlassian), Josh Bersin, Katie Burke (Chief People Officer, Harvey), Liz Fosslien, Helen Russell (Chief People Officer, HubSpot), Dave Scott (Chief People Officer, ADT), Melanie Rossenwasser (Chief People Officer, Dropbox), Crystal Boysen (Chief People Officer, Sprout Social), and many more.
MPL Live Boston: Engagement scores don’t tell the full story (CPOs of DraftKings, Klaviyo, and Smartcat)
Linda Aiello (CPO, DraftKings), Carmel Galvin (CPO, Klaviyo), and Stacey Richey (Global VP, People, Smartcat), joined us for MPL Live in Boston, Massachusetts.
We talked about the current state of HR, how roles are shifting with AI, and how they’re moving beyond traditional engagement metrics.
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(09:44) Guest introductions
(10:49) State of HR & navigating today's challenges
(16:33) How roles have shifted due to economic changes & AI (Stacey)
(21:34) Balancing AI with human factors (Linda)
(25:12) Advice for HR leaders starting with AI
(25:54) Employee engagement realities (Linda)
(30:07) Linking engagement to performance outcomes (Carmel)
(32:14) Implications of productivity expectations with AI (Stacey)
(35:06) Culture and embracing AI tools (Stephen)
(46:26 ) Effective AI change management (Stacey)
(49:41) Managing stress and resilience (Linda & Stacey)
(56:23) Networking advice for job seekers (Carmel)
(1:00:14) Revisiting employee engagement (Stephen)
(1:04:29) Defining employee engagement (Linda, Stacey, Carmel)
( 1:09:24) Employee listening & HR as a product team (Carmel)
(1:12:33) Key employee engagement metrics & insights (Linda)
(1:17:28) Moving beyond traditional engagement surveys (Linda & Carmel)
(1:22:07) Observational methods to measure engagement (Carmel & Stacey)
----
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Past guests on MPL include Brené Brown, Annie Dean (VP of Team Anywhere, Atlassian), Josh Bersin, Katie Burke (Chief People Officer, Harvey), Liz Fosslien, Helen Russell (Chief People Officer, HubSpot), Dave Scott (Chief People Officer, ADT), Melanie Rossenwasser (Chief People Officer, Dropbox), Crystal Boysen (Chief People Officer, Sprout Social), and many more.
219 - 4x Chief People Officer on leadership & making AI a priority: Shlomit Gruman-Navot
Shlomit Gruman-Navot joined us on The Modern People Leader.
We talked about her evolution as a people leader and how Miro is making AI learning a priority for employees.
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5:00 - Her career journey: from IBM to SAP, Alpha Bank, OLX, and Miro
11:32 - The shift from monoculture workplaces to truly global teams
19:13 - Roadshows in Siberia, unique cultural experiences & leadership takeaways
26:47 - How HR leaders can embrace AI without fear
32:00 - The importance of adaptability & learning new skills in a fast-changing world
42:27 - Why AI is changing work—and why HR must lead the way
53:23 - What AI means for job roles, skills development & human interaction
----
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Past guests on MPL include Brené Brown, Annie Dean (VP of Team Anywhere, Atlassian), Josh Bersin, Katie Burke (Chief People Officer, Harvey), Liz Fosslien, Helen Russell (Chief People Officer, HubSpot), Dave Scott (Chief People Officer, ADT), Melanie Rossenwasser (Chief People Officer, Dropbox), Crystal Boysen (Chief People Officer, Sprout Social), and many more.
218 - Why AI makes learning “scaled to one”: Brandon Carson (Chief Learning Officer, Docebo)
Brandon Carson, Chief Learning Officer at Docebo, joined us on The Modern People Leader.
We talked about the one thing holding companies back from adopting AI faster, why AI makes learning “scaled to one”, and why the future of work isn’t about replacing humans - it’s about amplifying them.
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(07:49) Brandon’s career journey: From Delta, Walmart, and Starbucks to Docebo
(14:30) Learning is the oxygen of the enterprise
(16:10) What the next 10 years of AI in the workplace will look like
(20:48) Why companies aren’t moving fast enough with AI adoption
(28:04) The biggest challenge: Outdated infrastructure & data debt
(30:42) AI’s impact: 40% of global working hours could be transformed
(33:57) The next wave of corporate learning – embedding AI into workflows
(38:37) Scaling learning from thousands to one personalized experience
(44:29) Who will win and lose in this AI transformation?
(50:03) Companies that prioritize humanity in work will thrive
(52:38) AI literacy vs. fluency – How HR can bridge the gap
(56:55) What AI tools Brandon is already using to clone himself
(01:00:01) Will our AI bots be podcasting for us in the future?
(01:04:20) Advice for new L&D professionals: Understand AI’s role in learning
(01:05:32) Who should we have on next?
(01:07:49) One-word close: Onward, Set the Table, Catch Up
----
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Past guests on MPL include Brené Brown, Annie Dean (VP of Team Anywhere, Atlassian), Josh Bersin, Katie Burke (Chief People Officer, Harvey), Liz Fosslien, Helen Russell (Chief People Officer, HubSpot), Dave Scott (Chief People Officer, ADT), Melanie Rossenwasser (Chief People Officer, Dropbox), Crystal Boysen (Chief People Officer, Sprout Social), and many more.
217 - Tackling "People Debt": Crystal Boysen (Chief People Officer, Sprout Social)
Crystal Boysen, Chief People Officer at Sprout Social, joined us for a deep dive into People Debt.
We discussed what it is, how to identify it, and specific areas where Sprout Social is focusing its efforts to address it.
----
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----
(08:41) From Vimeo to Sprout Social: Why Crystal made the move
(11:50) What is People Debt and why does it slow down HR?
(14:22) Fixing HR inefficiencies at Sprout Social
(28:37) Why Sprout Social paused their engagement surveys
(38:19) Redefining performance management (and why most companies do it wrong)
(42:44) Automating reviews & removing manager bias in ratings
(43:12) Pay-for-performance: The future of compensation at Sprout
(46:22) Agile HR: How Sprout redesigned its HR org structure
(50:15) Why HRBPs are evolving into Strategic Business Coaches
(52:08) The power of cross-functional squads in HR
(55:03) Rapid Fire Questions
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Past guests on MPL include Brené Brown, Annie Dean (VP of Team Anywhere, Atlassian), Josh Bersin, Katie Burke (Chief People Officer, Harvey), Liz Fosslien, Helen Russell (Chief People Officer, HubSpot), Dave Scott (Chief People Officer, ADT), Melanie Rossenwasser (Chief People Officer, Dropbox), and many more.
216 - Your CEO pushing for RTO? Ask these 5 Q’s: Brian Elliott (CEO, Work Forward)
Brian Elliott, a leading expert on flexible work, joined us on the show.
We talked about whether or not remote work is actually dead (looked at the actual data), the questions to ask when your CEO pushes for a RTO, and why a return to office won’t fix bad management.
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----
(07:36) How Brian became a leading voice on the future of work
(13:39) The origins of Slack’s Future Forum and key findings
(14:56) The media vs. reality: Is remote work really dead?
(17:14) CEOs pushing RTO: Data-driven decision or gut feeling?
(19:02) The role of real estate, stealth layoffs, and productivity concerns
(23:27) The trust factor: Why some leaders struggle with hybrid models
(26:35) Politics and workplace decisions: The hidden forces at play
(28:34) The shift from central business districts to neighborhood economies
(30:37) The future of work isn’t fully remote or in-office—it’s flexible
(34:12) How HR leaders can push back on RTO mandates
(38:19) The contradiction: CEOs demanding AI innovation while enforcing RTO
(41:50) Performance management in a hybrid world: Why tracking outcomes matters
(47:33) How leading companies successfully implement flexible work policies
(49:30) The impact of return-to-office policies on women in the workforce
(54:23) What cities will look like in a remote-first future
(57:57) Five years from now: What will the workplace look like?
(01:01:43) The economic realities of remote work and city tax structures
----
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Past guests on MPL include Brené Brown, Annie Dean (VP of Team Anywhere, Atlassian), Josh Bersin, Katie Burke (Chief People Officer, Harvey), Liz Fosslien, Helen Russell (Chief People Officer, HubSpot), Dave Scott (Chief People Officer, ADT), Melanie Rossenwasser (Chief People Officer, Dropbox), and many more.
215 - Lucia Guillory, Chief People Officer at Virta Health
Lucia Guillory, Chief People Officer at Virta Health, joined us on the show.
We discussed how HR teams can adopt a product-driven mindset, the importance of leadership self-awareness, and how Virta Health fosters connection in a fully remote work environment.
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----
(07:24) Lucia’s career journey from psychology to HR leadership
(08:52) The importance of authenticity and self-awareness in leadership
(13:39) The process of unlearning leadership habits and self-doubt
(21:05) What Virta Health does and its mission to reverse diabetes
(23:57) Can you build community on a fully remote team
(26:30) The challenges and successes of transitioning to remote-first
(28:14) How remote work impacts employee meaning and connection
(30:31) The role of culture in a distributed workforce
(35:39) How Virta Health structures onboarding for remote employees
(38:54) HR as a product: Building an employee experience life cycle
(43:26) Why job leveling is the foundation of a strong HR function
(47:01) How to identify when compensation structures aren’t working
(49:30) Rapid fire questions
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214 - The anti-DEI push, RTO mandates, and is HR tech losing its way?
We talked about the growing backlash against DEI initiatives and why companies are scaling back their commitment, the potential hidden agendas behind RTO mandates, and the current frustrations with HR tech.
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----
Timestamps:
(08:11) The anti-DEI movement
(14:23) Did DEI programs scale too quickly post-2020?
(18:29) The role of activists in influencing corporate DEI rollbacks
(26:07) Are RTO mandates being used to justify workforce reductions?
(29:25) The impact of return-to-office policies
(36:58) The growing frustration with HR tech—why is it failing?
(45:42) Has AI-driven HR tech delivered on its promises?
(50:17) Are legacy HR systems holding companies back?
(57:00) The college admissions debate and perceptions of fairness in hiring
(01:05:44) One-word close
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213 - David Scott (Chief People & Administration Officer at ADT) on ADT's transformation to a tech company
Dave Scott, Chief People and Administration Officer at ADT, joined us on The Modern People Leader.
We discussed ADT’s evolution from a services to tech company, Dave's journey from Walmart to leading HR at ADT, and how to cut costs in HR without cutting value.
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----
Timestamps:
06:39) Dave’s professional journey: From Walmart to ADT
(11:01) Dave’s early career as a professional clown
(12:33) ADT’s mission and transition to a technology company
(22:40) ADT’s transformation: A product-focused mindset
(27:51) Hiring strategies to attract tech talent at ADT
(30:39) Transforming the HR function at ADT
(35:24) Skills and organizational design for the future workforce
(41:34) Cost management strategies for HR in 2024 and beyond
(49:55) Rapid-fire questions
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212 - 2025 Predictions from LPGA's Chief People & Internal Operations Officer
Sam Simmons, Chief People and Internal Operations Officer at the LPGA, joined us on The Modern People Leader.
We talked about her transition from the San Antonio Spurs to the LPGA, 2025 HR predictions, and the LPGA People Team goals for the year.
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Timestamps:
(03:21) Sam’s journey to the LPGA
(14:47) Challenges and learnings from 2024
(17:42) Leadership goals for 2025
(21:25) Mantras for 2025
(23:26) Predictions for HR in 2025: Challenges and opportunities
(27:25) AI's role in HR: Optimizing work with tools
(29:54) Addressing key challenges in DEI and organizational change
(33:45) 2025 HR goals and Sam’s strategic planning approach
(40:33) The most critical HR goal for the LPGA in 2025
(46:16) HR tech stack considerations and streamlining processes
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211 - The 2024 MPL Awards
This is the 2024 MPL Awards Show.
Each of us selected a winner for the four different awards:
(8:14) Award #1: The CEO Whisperer
(18:27) Award #2: The Best Hang
(24:19) Award #3: The Data Hero
(39:15) Award #4: The Innovator
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MPL Links:
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Episodes referenced:
- Episode 148 - Hannah Yardley (Chief People Officer, Achievers)
- Episode 165 - Brandon Sammut (Chief People Officer, Zapier)
- Episode 186 - Hebba Youssef (Chief People Officer, Workweek)
- Episode 193 - Brené Brown
- Episode 149 - Annie Dean (VP of Team Anywhere, Atlassian)
- Episode 187 - Nick Bloom (Stanford Economist & Co-Founder of wfhresearch.com)
- Episode 167 - David Hanrahan (Chief People Officer, Flare)
- Episode 194 - Melanie Rosenwasser (Chief People Officer, Dropbox)
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Interview referenced:
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Best of MPL (Aug '24): Brené Brown
Brené Brown, professor, author, and podcast host, joined us on The Modern People Leader.
We discussed her experience as a leader, the concept of metacognition, and the leadership skill of creating space between stimulus and response.
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(1:35) Good news stories
(3:45) Brené’s story
(19:49) Every day is leg day as a leader
(25:47) Metacognition
(28:25) Creating the space between stimulus and response
(44:08) The challenges of implementing a four-day workweek
(47:00) Rapid fire questions exploring leadership and the future of work
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210 - Hope Isn’t a Strategy: How a Chief People Officer Transformed Their Life
Colin Mincy, Chief People & Culture Officer at Centering Healthcare Institute, joined us on The Modern People Leader. We dove deep into his personal transformation, how his leadership style has evolved, and the tough truths HR professionals face today. Colin shared his journey of progress over perfection, emphasizing small wins, accountability, and momentum to create lasting change—both personally (losing 68 pounds and reclaiming his energy) and professionally.
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209 - Little L Leaders: The Unsung Heroes (Robert H. Johnson Jr., Author & Speaker)
Robert H. Johnson Jr., author of Safe, Seen, Heard, and Valued and TEDx speaker, joined us on The Modern People Leader. We explored the power of "little L" leadership and how organizations can harness the potential of unsung heroes within their teams.
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Timestamps:
(09:24) Robert’s origin story and early leadership journey
(15:00) The concept of psychological safety and Robert’s book Safe, Seen, Heard, and Valued
(17:37) Robert’s TEDx talk: The Power of the Little L
(18:55) Differentiating between big L and little L leadership
(24:14) Stories of little L leaders making an impact
(27:10) Why companies should invest in little L leaders
(30:44) Three E’s framework: Education, Experience, and Exposure
(38:03) Building cultural giants vs. empowering everyday leaders
(43:07) Characteristics of a little L leader and their impact
(49:47) Living in a big L world and the shift needed
(52:55) Lessons from the pandemic and employee engagement whiplash
(56:52) Words of encouragement for little L leaders
(59:46) The Three C’s of Community: Curiosity, Commonality, Connection
(01:06:44) Rapid fire questions
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Best of MPL (Jan '24): 1,000 Days of Distributed at Atlassian (Annie Dean, VP of Team Anywhere at Atlassian)
This episode was originally released on 1/22/2024.
Annie Dean, VP of Team Anywhere at Atlassian, joined us on The Modern People Leader.
She shared Atlassian’s learnings after 1,000 days of distributed work: their calendar redesign experiment, the impact of in-person gatherings on team connection levels, and the ROI of real estate at Atlassian.
208 - Michelle Kay, VP of Learning & Development at Albertsons Companies
Michelle Kay, VP of Learning & Development at Albertsons Companies, joined us on The Modern People Leader.
We discussed the need to rethink our approach to work, whether generational gaps are real or simply a sign of being out of touch, and two major shifts on the horizon for L&D.
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Timestamps:
(8:01) Michelle’s transition from teaching to corporate America, and her journey in L&D.
(14:10) Discussion on the need for rapid adaptation in workplace policies and practices.
(17:20) Exploring the potential shift towards a four-day work week and its implications.
(27:06) Delving into generational impacts on the workplace from Millennials to Gen Z.
(33:34) The challenges and transformations in learning and development in today's corporate environment.
(42:10) The role of generational differences in evolving workplace dynamics.
(51:37) Rapid fire questions
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207 - The Election & Microdosing on Hope: Brandon Sammut (Chief People Officer, Zapier) & Gianna Driver (Chief People Officer, Lattice)
Brandon Sammut, Chief People Officer at Zapier, and Gianna Driver, Chief People Officer at Lattice, joined us for an emergency pod following last week’s presidential election.
We discussed how the election results might impact the workplace over the coming months, the importance of having a sociopolitical response approach, and why we should all be microdosing on hope.
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206 - More Generosity & Less Chest-Pumping in HR: Frank Congui (EVP, Human Capital Strategy & Executive Partnerships at Randstad Enterprise)
Frank Congui, EVP at Randstad Enterprise, joined us on The Modern People Leader.
We talked about the magic of intentional gatherings, leading with generosity, and why we should be doing less chest-pumping in the HR space.
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(0:13) Announcement: MPL Live Miami event on December 10th
(7:04) Frank’s journey from Goldman Sachs to Randstad
(9:58) Building executive communities: The beginning of the CHRO dinners
(12:08) Evolution of executive dinners and blending roles
(19:00) Intentional traditions in leadership gatherings
(24:31) Vulnerability and creating moments of connection
(28:00) The power of service and being generous in leadership
(38:30) The state of HR: Burnout, DEI challenges, and AI adoption
(42:11) Balancing optimism and skepticism in the HR industry
(47:13) Civil conversations in divisive times: Creating supportive policies
(54:03) Magic wand HR fix: Pay equity for all
(56:08) The future of work: AI and human partnership
(59:27) Rapid fire questions:
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205 - Why CHROs are rethinking their roles: Jenna Eichberg (Chief People Officer at AlertMedia)
Jenna Eichberg, Chief People Officer at AlertMedia, joined us on The Modern People Leader. We talked about the state of HR, why CHROs are rethinking their roles, and AlertMedia’s leadership programs.
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(0:13) Announcement: MPL Live Miami event on December 10th
(5:01) Jenna’s story
(10:06) Navigating industries and career growth
(17:07) Transition to AlertMedia – finding a dream job
(29:03) The state of HR today and managing change
(32:09) The “Manager Dilemma” and leadership development
(37:55) The launch of the Emerging Leaders Program
(45:14) Executive and people team offsites: Key insights
(47:52) HR burnout and the light at the end of the tunnel
(54:47) A positive outlook for the future of HR
(59:28) Rapid fire questions
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204 - Tracy Avin (Founder, TroopHR)
Tracy Avin, Founder of TroopHR, joined us on The Modern People Leader.
We talked about how TroopHR was born, the importance of community in HR, the challenges HR professionals face in today’s business climate, and the need for support networks.
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Timestamps:
(6:57) Tracy’s journey to founding TroopHR
(10:57) What a day in Tracy’s life looks like
(12:59) The meaning of community for HR leaders
(16:33) How the needs of the HR community have evolved
(18:36) Challenges and conflicts faced by HR professionals
(25:47) Handling difficult conversations in a professional setting
(28:44) Why boundaries are crucial in discussions
(30:06) Politicization of HR topics in the workplace
(36:00) Doing more with less: The pressures of shrinking HR teams
(42:06) HR burnout and its impact
(44:56) The influence of economic situations on HR strategy
(47:37) The importance of community in challenging times
(51:23) Open sourcing HR ideas: A positive shift post-COVID
(52:49) Rapid fire questions
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203 - The inverted org chart, CEO Alignment & the art & science of compensation: Ray Martinelli (Chief People Officer, Contentful)
Ray Martinelli, Chief People Officer at Contentful, joined us on The Modern People Leader.
We talked about his career journey, the art & science that goes into compensation, and aligning HR goals with business strategy.
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Timestamps:
(5:05) Ray's career story: From finance to Chief People Officer
(7:44) Why Ray joined Contentful and key takeaways
(10:32) AI’s impact on content management and HR
(12:44) The state of HR in 2024: Leadership and navigating change
(18:40) Addressing politics in the workplace and leadership responsibilities
(22:13) What Ray had to unlearn as an HR leader
(26:25) Ray’s approach to building a people strategy at Contentful
(32:09) Aligning HR strategy with CEO vision and business goals
(36:41) Ray’s vision for his first year at Contentful
(42:38) Ray’s CPO dashboard: Key metrics on engagement, rewards, and promotions
(46:39) Differentiating rewards and compensation strategies
(52:52) The importance of transparent conversations in performance management
(57:50) Rapid fire questions
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202 - VC on helping founders with talent strategy, exec searches, & people challenges (Sandra Schwarzer, Index Ventures)
Sandra Schwarzer, Board & Talent Insights leader at Index Ventures, joined us on The Modern People Leader.
We talked about Index Ventures’ experience helping founders “scale through chaos”, how much time founders spend on HR-related tasks, their 14-point framework for running executive searches, and how investors evaluate founders’ view on talent.
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Timestamps:
(3:54) Sandra's career story: From East Germany to Index Ventures
(10:42) Defining 'Scaling through Chaos' and key takeaways
(13:56) Founders spending 50% of their time on HR-related tasks
(17:44) Challenges in hiring engineering talent and how Index Ventures supports founders
(20:07) Structuring time for hiring and talent-related tasks
(27:05) AI adoption in the people function: Early challenges and insights
(38:48) The 14-point executive search framework for successful hires
(44:06) How to balance speed and cultural fit when hiring
(50:26) Common mistakes in executive hiring and learning from them
(54:11) The importance of organizational design and a CEO's view of the people function
(56:53) Index Ventures' tool for optimizing team planning and scaling
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201 - Live: Rethinking Performance & Compensation (David Hanrahan, Chief People Officer at Flare & Jessica Zwaan, Author of Built for People)
David Hanrahan, Chief People Officer at Flare, and Jessica Zwaan, Author of Built for People & COO at Talentful, joined us live in Austin, Texas.
We talked about how performance management is stuck in the past, the idea of team-based assessments, how to run a data-driven performance calibration, and the evolving role of compensation in driving performance.
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3:11: Reflections on outdated performance management practices
5:07: Thoughts on why companies are holding onto legacy review systems
6:46: The impact of AI on performance management and synthesizing feedback
9:40: Team dynamics in performance management and HR’s evolving role
12:24: Real-time tools for performance feedback and privacy concerns
14:27: Shifts in company values post-pandemic and how that affects performance reviews
17:09: Measuring team performance over individual performance
20:12: Calibration, feedback, and team assessments
23:02: Linking performance management and compensation strategies
29:03: The role of procedural and distributive fairness in compensation
32:11: Challenges of tying performance to compensation
36:02: Discussion on bonus allocation based on performance
40:12: Team performance assessments and executive decision-making
44:48: Questions from the audience on coaching and team dynamics
50:22: Closing thoughts on changing traditional HR practices
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200 - MPL Live Austin: AI in HR & Election Year (Katie Burke, Former CPO at HubSpot & Gianna Driver, CPO at Lattice)
Katie Burke, CPO & Board Member at Paycor, and Gianna Driver, Chief People Officer at Lattice, joined us for our inaugural MPL Live in Austin, Texas.
We talked about the current state of HR, generational differences in the workforce, and how AI is impacting organizations.
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2:58: Good news stories from Gianna and Katie
5:05: Celebrating episode 200
6:46: State of HR and workplace changes in 2024
8:14: Katie and Gianna's insights on doing more with less and AI adoption
9:28: Greater focus on how HR supports the business
10:42: The impact of AI on HR functions
14:25: How Lattice integrates AI into their HR processes
17:19: Challenges of managing AI adoption and workforce expectations
22:12: Strategies for managing cross-generational workforce
31:02: Balancing DEI efforts with workforce realities
35:22: Handling politics in the workplace during election years
49:00: Audience Q&A on navigating difficult topics in HR
54:46: Closing thoughts and one-word reflections
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199 - OKRs, Pancake Sprints, & The Power of a 30-60-90 Day Plan: Vanessa Monsequeira (VP of People, Gorilla)
Vanessa Monsequeira, VP of People at Gorilla, joined us on The Modern People Leader.
We discussed Vanessa’s path to leadership, how to navigate hyper-growth in organizations, and the importance of mindset and unlearning for today’s people leaders.
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(0:02) Introduction and good news stories
(5:28) Vanessa’s career journey and lessons from hyper-growth
(10:21) The role of mindset and resilience in leadership
(14:32) Navigating fast vs. slow decision-making during hyper-growth
(18:47) Gorilla’s core business and the impact of real-time data in energy utilities
(27:53) The challenges of scaling people operations in a tech company
(32:30) Identifying and addressing blind spots in HR leadership
(40:48) The role of unlearning and relearning in leadership transitions
(46:31) OKRs and the process of aligning with business goals
(49:06) Advice for people leaders navigating today’s tough job market
(57:42) Rapid fire questions and career advice
(1:02:17) One word close
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198 - Jeff Schmitz (Chief People Officer, Zebra Technologies) on launching new purpose statement & values
Jeff Schmitz, Chief People Officer at Zebra Technologies, joined us on The Modern People Leader.
We talked about Jeff’s transition from marketing to HR, why Zebra is reinventing their purpose statement and values, and their cultural training programs.
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(0:39) Good news stories
(5:12) Jeff’s career journey
(6:15) Jeff’s background from engineering to CMO and CPO
(9:48) Biggest surprises transitioning from marketing to HR
(12:16) Explanation of Zebra Technologies’ core business
(14:41) Why Jeff loves working at Zebra
(16:28) Launching Zebra’s new purpose statement and values
(22:48) How Zebra involves employees in cultural transformation
(24:31) Impact of culture on smaller acquisitions
(27:01) Cultural integration from Zebra’s acquisition of Motorola
(34:33) Cultural training programs at Zebra
(38:13) Advice for HR leaders about getting buy-in for cultural transformations
(42:15) Rapid-fire questions
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197 - Nicole Hughey (Former SVP, DEI at SiriusXM) on the shifting language of DEIB, the SHRM debate, & the heart of inclusion
Nicole Hughey, the former DEIB leader at SiriusXM, joined us on The Modern People Leader.
We talked about the evolution of DEIB language, the recent SHRM debate on equity, and the critical importance of heart in driving meaningful change within organizations.
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(0:44) Good news stories
(9:57) Big update on the September 17th event in Austin, Texas
(11:04) Nicole’s career journey and transition into DEI
(21:07) Moments that shaped Nicole’s approach to DEI
(26:00) State of the Union for DEI
(27:18) Nicole on the misconception that DEI is going away
(29:33) Discussion on SHRM’s decision to remove the “E” from DEI
(34:19) The importance of maintaining rigor and responsibility in DEI work
(39:00) Courage and accountability in DEI efforts
(49:41) Courage as a key element in the evolution of DEI
(53:22) What’s next for Nicole’s career in DEI
(54:38) Rapid fire questions: Career advice, HR challenges, and future guests
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196 - Michael C. Bush, CEO at Great Place To Work®
Michael C. Bush, CEO of Great Place To Work®, joined us on The Modern People Leader.
We discussed what the data reveals about the best leaders, why DEIB is the key to achieving massive success, and why Gen Z will choose jobs based on leaders rather than companies.
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This episode was brought to you by Great Place To Work. Download their latest research on Employee Retention here.
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Timestamps:
(0:53) Good news stories
(7:44) Michael’s career journey and his path to Great Place to Work
(21:19) The importance of DEIB for business success
(29:32) The impact of leadership on employee experience
(32:06) Challenges and opportunities in enhancing leadership quality
(41:07) Examples of companies successfully implementing DEIB initiatives
(51:00) Discussion on DEIB and its connection to making “octillions”
(59:45) The role of AI in the future of work and DEIB
(1:19:57) Rapid fire questions
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195 - Qualities of high-performing founders: Polly Barnes (Operating Partner, Talent at EQT Ventures)
Polly Barnes, Operating Partner, Talent at EQT Ventures, joined us on The Modern People Leader.
We talked about the qualities of high-performing founders, the emerging founder profile, and why HR leaders need to have more focus than ever right now.
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Go get your tickets for MPL Live using our 50% off discount code, MPL-LIVE-50. Don't miss out—get your ticket now!
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This episode was brought to you by Great Place To Work®. Download their latest research on Return-to-Office Mandates here.
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(0:48) Good news stories
(7:23) Announcement: First ever live podcast event in Austin, Texas
(7:25) Polly’s career journey from marketing to VC
(13:53) Discussing EQT’s 20 unique indicators of high-performing founders
(16:04) The importance of resilience in founders
(19:00) Balancing resilience with self-reflection
(21:05) Leadership and decision-making in founders
(26:32) The evolving profile of tech founders with AI advancements
(29:59) The role of psychological support in founder success
(34:53) Operating systems and frameworks for startup success
(40:09) The importance of prioritization in HR leadership
(45:05) Challenges and future of DEI initiatives in startups
(49:18) Opportunities and advice for modern HR leaders in VC-backed startups
(52:01) Building personal brands and communities within HR
(54:19) Rapid fire questions
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194 - Melanie Rosenwasser (Chief People Officer, Dropbox): How Dropbox is setting employees up for success in a virtual first model
Melanie Rosenwasser, Chief People Officer at Dropbox, joined us on The Modern People Leader. We discussed Dropbox’s virtual-first model, how they measure its success, and the three types of in-person gatherings they organize.
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Go get your tickets for MPL Live using our 50% off discount code, MPL-LIVE-50. Don't miss out—get your ticket now!
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This episode was brought to you by Great Place To Work®. Learn more at http://greatplacetowork.com/mpl.
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(0:41) Good news stories
(6:00) Melanie's career journey
(9:18) What Dropbox does and why it's a great place to work
(12:04) The importance of flexibility in Dropbox's virtual-first model
(13:11) Key elements for success in a virtual first environment
(19:39) The role of data and research in shaping Dropbox's work model
(23:05) Insights from Dropbox's research on remote work
(24:00) Building trust and culture in a remote-first environment
(27:01) Challenges and learnings from remote work at Dropbox
(30:30) The importance of in-person gatherings for remote teams
(37:52) Offsite modalities and their impact on team collaboration
(41:02) Experimenting with AI and its impact on the future of work
(46:15) Predictions for the future of work
(52:01) Rapid fire questions
(55:11) One word or phrase close
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193 - Brené Brown: Every day is leg day as a leader
Brené Brown, professor, author, and podcast host, joined us on The Modern People Leader.
We discussed her experience as a leader, the concept of metacognition, and the leadership skill of creating space between stimulus and response.
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This episode was brought to you by Great Place To Work®. Learn more at http://greatplacetowork.com/mpl.
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(1:35) Good news stories
(3:45) Brené’s story
(19:49) Every day is leg day as a leader
(25:47) Metacognition
(28:25) Creating the space between stimulus and response
(44:08) The challenges of implementing a four-day workweek
(47:00) Rapid fire questions exploring leadership and the future of work
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192 - The Employee Feedback Journal: Tracy Letzerich (VP of People, Wheel)
Tracy Letzerich, Vice President of People at Wheel, joined us on The Modern People Leader.
We discussed why feedback is the lifeblood of organizational progress, why Wheel is ditching the annual performance review, and why every manager should start keeping feedback journals with their team.
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This episode was brought to you by Great Place To Work®. Download their Employee Retention Report here.
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(0:45) Good news stories
(3:52) Great Place to Work’s research on RTO mandates.
(5:05) Tracy’s story: Nontraditional HR path and becoming VP of People at Wheel.
(9:00) Why do some business solutions work and others fail? It boils down to the people.
(13:42) What does Wheel do?
(15:39) Tracy’s passion for feedback in organizations.
(17:23) What does it mean to have a culture of feedback?
(18:29) Was there something in the data or personal observation that led to the focus on feedback?
(19:52) Tracy's journey at Wheel and the need for a new feedback model.
(21:59) Feedback culture is an ongoing journey.
(24:16) Balancing informal and formal feedback.
(25:16) Building relationships in a remote world.
(27:48) Role modeling feedback behaviors.
(29:23) Rethinking the one on one: The Feedback journal.
(31:32) Direct reports should own the one on one.
(33:01) The challenges of being a manager today.
(35:57) The journey to pay transparency at Wheel.
(38:18) Resistance to change around the annual review.
(39:30) Replacing the annual review with continuous feedback.
(41:04) The importance of training and ongoing support for feedback.
(43:09) Accountability in feedback culture.
(44:22) Performance map as an alternative to the annual review.
(45:01) Integrating feedback and compensation.
(47:45) Rapid fire questions.
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191 - Exos & Adam Grant's Team Explore the Four-Day Workweek: Greg Hill (Chief People Officer, Exos)
Greg Hill, Chief People Officer at Exos, joined us on The Modern People Leader.
We discussed Exos' Readiness Culture Code, how they measured the success of their four-day workweek experiment, and the difference between productivity and effectiveness.
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This episode was brought to you by Great Place To Work®. Learn more at http://greatplacetowork.com/mpl.
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(7:32) From Upstate New York to Chief People Officer at Exos
(11:44) The Readiness Culture Code Explained
(16:13) Flexibility and Recovery: The Four-Day Work Week
(24:45) Discussing CEO Meetings and Competitive Talent Challenges
(25:01) Tech Industry Challenges Post-COVID
(25:41) Discussion with Nick Bloom on the Four-Day Work Week
(27:24) Sales Performance and Net Promoter Scores (NPS) During the Pilot
(29:13) Positive Outcomes of the Pilot
(32:05) Tailoring Hybrid Work Solutions to Different Organizations
(34:03) Tie-Ins with Return-to-Office or Hybrid Programs
(36:19) Advice for Smaller Companies and Designing Structured Experiments
(43:17) Future Study on Quiet Quitting
(45:00) Measuring Performance and Productivity
(47:24) Talent Management in a Changing World
(51:36) Regional Directors and Cultural Norms
(52:26) Accountability at the Peer Level
(53:15) High-Performance Culture and Its Articulation
(56:00) Output Expectations Across Teams
(57:04) Generative AI: Enhancing vs. Replacing Human Input
(1:01:02) Call to Action for HR Leaders
(1:03:07) Personal Engagement in Workplace Transformation
(1:05:01) Magic Wand Fix for HR Problems
(1:06:33) Guest Recommendation: Todd McCarty
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190 - Melanie Naranjo (VP, People, Ethena) & Vanesa Cotlar (VP, People & Culture, PolicyMe) on Performance Management
Vanesa Cotlar (VP, People & Culture, PolicyMe) and Melanie Naranjo (VP, People, Ethena) joined us on The Modern People Leader.
We discussed the three questions every manager should be asking themselves about their direct reports, why setting expectations with new hires can go a long way in improving performance, and how to create a common language for employees around performance.
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This episode was brought to you by Great Place To Work®. Learn more at greatplacetowork.com/mpl.
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(1:29) Good news stories
(8:43) What’s new with Vanesa and Melanie
(12:55) Why performance management is a hot topic right now
(19:43) The 3 questions Ethena managers ask themselves about direct reports
(21:40) Expectation setting with new hires during the first 90 days
(31:47) Handling performance conversations
(36:18) Create a common language for employees around performance
(39:30) The percentage of managers effectively managing performance
(45:39) What happens when your current team isn’t the right team to get you to the next level
(51:18) Great Place To Work’s research on RTO mandates
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189 - Tinkering versus true transformation: Larry McAlister, (Head of Digital Transformation, Nutanix)
Larry McAlister, Head of Digital Transformation at Nutanix, joined us on The Modern People Leader.
We discussed what transformation looks like, the importance of defining it for your organization, and the difference between mere tinkering and true transformation.
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This episode was brought to you by Great Place To Work®. Learn more at greatplacetowork.com/mpl.
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(1:22) Good news stories
(4:03) Great Place To Work’s research on RTO mandates
(5:41) Going from CHRO roles to the Head of Digital Transformation
(9:02) What he does as a Head of Digital Transformation
(10:20) What Nutanix does
(10:59) Why we should be jealous he gets to work at Nutanix
(13:45) What is transformation?
(16:04) You need an enablement strategy for new HR tech
(18:00) Get very specific about what transformation means to your company
(20:00) Tinkering versus transformation
(23:07) Tell people the truth about the change that’s coming
(27:20) Generative AI & Microsoft Co-Pilot
(38:55) The only reason there's still humans in Talent Acquisition
(42:50) Why he wrote The Power to Transform
(45:13) You are a technologist
(46:56) Rapid fire questions
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188 - “Future of HR + Modern People Leader” with JP Elliott, Stephen Huerta, & Daniel Huerta
187 - WFH data & the 4-day workweek: Nick Bloom (Stanford Economist & Co-Founder of wfhresearch.com)
Nick Bloom, Stanford Economist & Co-Founder of wfhresearch.com, joined us on The Modern People Leader.
We talked about the state of WFH, managing in a hybrid environment, the four versions of the 4-day workweek, and what’s coming next for Nick.
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This episode was brought to you by Great Place to Work®. Download their latest research on Return-to-Office Mandates here.
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(1:13) Good news stories
(3:47) Great Place To Work’s research on RTO mandates
(5:05) Nick’s story
(7:24) HR is now the center of action
(10:15) Work from home data points
(16:48) The benefits of being in office
(21:04) Is it career limiting to be fully remote when the rest of your team is hybrid?
(24:24) Managing in a hybrid environment
(29:03) The four versions of the 4-day workweek
(31:24) How far away are we from the magic version of the 4-day workweek?
(39:30) Nick’s predictions for the next 10-15 years
(44:40) The weird and wonderful things Nick is researching next
(48:16) Rapid fire questions
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186 - Hebba Youssef (Founder & creator of I Hate it Here & Chief People Officer at Workweek)
Hebba Youssef, Founder & Creator of I Hate it Here & Chief People Officer at Workweek, joined us on The Modern People Leader.
We talked about the work they're doing to elevate their managers to the next level, why the CEO and Chief People Officer dynamic is challenging, and whether there has been scope creep for the CPO role.
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This episode was brought to you by Great Place to Work®. Download their latest research on Return-to-Office Mandates here.
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2:36 Good news stories
10:26 Your thirties
14:04 Hebba’s story
21:49 Balancing Dual Roles: CPO and Content Creator
25:42 What Hebba dislikes most about being a creator
27:30 Maturing as a company is painful
31:09 Getting managers to the next level
33:14 Friday manager trainings at Workweek
39:20 Changing the mindset of leaders to want to change
45:45 Why the CEO and Chief People Officer dynamic is difficult
48:53 Your CEO needs a professional coach and a therapist
54:24 Is the scope of the CPO role getting too big?
57:56 The piece of HR that Hebba would give away
59:11 Rapid fire questions
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