Negotiating Ideas
By Omar Sadr
32. How Clergy & Autocrats Empowered Each Other - with Ahmet Kuru
Omar Sadr and Ahmet Kuru discuss the role of ulama in reinforcing authoritarianism in the Muslim world, the complex and often ambivalent relationship between religious scholars and state, models for governance in the religious sphere, and alternatives for state-ulama relations in modern Muslim societies.
Kuru is the director of the Center for Islamic and Arabic Studies and professor of political science at San Diego State University. He is the author of Secularism and State Policies toward Religion: The United States, France, and Turkey and co-editor (with Alfred Stepan) of Democracy, Islam, and Secularism in Turkey. His most recent book is Islam, Authoritarianism, and Underdevelopment: A Global and Historical Comparison New York: Cambridge University Press, 2019.
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31. Power and Authority in Afghanistan - with Anna Larson
Omar Sadr and Anna Larson discuss Power and Authority in Afghanistan.
Published by I.B. Tauris in 2025, "Power and Authority in Afghanistan: Rethinking Politics, Intervention, and Rule" tackles some of the most compelling questions about politics in Afghanistan.
Anna Larson is a writer and researcher who has worked in Afghanistan since 2004. She has taught at SOAS, the University of London, and Tufts University. Her PhD explored concepts and forms of democratization in Afghanistan.
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30. The Taliban Courts and Legal System - with Adam Baczko
Omar Sadr and Adam Baczko discuss the Taliban courts and how the group's legal outlook provided them a breakthrough in the conflict. Originally published in French and recently translated into English by Oxford University Press in 2023, "The Taliban Courts in Afghanistan" tackles some of the most compelling questions about justice and authority in conflict zones, particularly Afghanistan.
Baczko, a Research Associate Professor at the Center for International Studies, Sciences Po Paris, delves deep into the complex relationship between judicial power and political legitimacy. At the heart of his research lie two crucial questions: How does an armed movement convince a population that its judicial decisions are legitimate rather than purely political? And how did Taliban judges, who simultaneously embodied both judicial and militant roles, establish their authority within communities? Connect with us! Google, Apple, Spotify, Anchor Twitter: @negotiateideas & @OmarSadr Website: https://negotiatingideas.com/ Email: negotiatingidea@gmail.com
29. Prospects of a Secular State in the Muslim World - with Abdullahi An-Naim
Abdullahi An-Naim and Omar Sadr discuss why and how Muslims should embrace universal values of human rights and constitutionalism. They also talk about how a secular state creates a neutral public space where multiple religious and philosophical perspectives can coexist peacefully. This model prevents religious tyranny by ensuring that no single religious group can use and misuse the state to marginalize or oppress others. Abdullahi Ahmed An-Na’im is an Emeritus Professor of Law at Emory Law and senior fellow of the Center for the Study of Law and Religion at Emory University. An internationally recognized scholar of Islam and human rights and human rights in cross-cultural perspectives, An-Na’im teaches courses in international law, comparative law, human rights, and Islamic law. His research interests include constitutionalism in Islamic and African countries, secularism, and Islam and politics. You can visit his website at https://evolutionofsharia.org/
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28. Liberalism Against Itself with Samuel Moyn
Samuel Moyn and Omar Sadr discuss failures of Cold War liberalism and the challenges of contemporary liberalism.
Samuel Moyn is the Kent Professor of Law and History at Yale University. Trained in modern European intellectual history, he works on political and legal thought in modern times and on constitutional and international law in historical and current perspective.
Readings
Liberalism against Itself: Cold War Intellectuals and the Making of Our Times (Yale University Press, 2023) The Last Utopia: Human Rights in History (Harvard University Press, 2010)
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27. Being a Refugee Scholar in America with Halil Yenigun and Alfred Babo
Omar Sadr discusses how refugee academics navigated the American academia with Halil Yenigun and Alfred Babo.
Alfred is an Associate Professor of Anthropology at Fairfield University, Connecticut.
Halil is the Associate Director of the Abbasi Program in Islamic Studies at Stanford University.
Reading:
Alfred Babo. 38 Paradise Road, Being an African Francophone Refugee Scholar in American Academia, Journal of International Mobility 2021
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26. Persecution & Exile: Status of Afghanistan's Academia under the Taliban
Omar Sadr discusses the status of Afghanistan's academia under the Taliban with Haroon Mutasem and Qasim Wafayezada.
Haroon Mutasem is a Philip Schwartz Initiative fellow at the Law School of Humboldt University of Berlin, Germany. Qasim Wafayezada is a specially appointed professor of peace and conflict studies at Kanazawa University, Japan.
Readings:
Haroon Mutasem, PhD Dissertation and Legal Education in Afghanistan
Qasim Wafayezada Google Scholar
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25. Academic Freedom and Scholars in Exile
Omar Sadr discusses the status of scholars in exile with Dr Mirwais Balkhi and Dr Bashir Mobasher.
As we are getting close to the second anniversary of the Negotiating Ideas Podcast in July and the third anniversary of the return of the totalitarian Taliban in Afghanistan, the podcast aims to initiate a second season with a focus on the state of Afghanistan in-exile scholars in the US. Since the fall of the Republic of Afghanistan, numerous academics have fled the country in fear of persecution. Most of these scholars are welcomed in the US academia in the framework of a two-year fellowship funded by either the Scholars Rescue Fund or Scholars at Risk or independent initiatives of universities. In a new academic environment, they not only find opportunities but also several challenges in terms of their career. The second season of the podcast will provide them the opportunity to speak about academic persecution in Afghanistan and their status in the US academia.
Mirwais Balkhi is a Wilson Center fellow. He is a former Afghanistan minister of education, a former Afghanistan diplomat, and a scholar of international relations. He was a Visiting Scholar of International Relations and Middle Eastern Studies at Georgetown University-Qatar.
Dr. Bashir Mobasher is a postdoctoral fellow at the American University (DC), an adjunct at the American University of Afghanistan, and an affiliate with EBS Universität. He is the President of the Afghanistan Law and Political Science Association (in-exile) and leads its online education programs for female students in Afghanistan. Bashir is an expert in constitutional design in divided societies and human rights. He has authored, reviewed, and supervised numerous research projects on constitutional law, electoral systems, and identity politics. His recent research projects are centered around decentralization, social justice, and orientalism. Bashir obtained his B.A. (2007) from the School of Law and Political Science at Kabul University and his LLM (2010) and PhD (2017) from the University of Washington School of Law.
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24. Secularism and Islam with Nader Hashemi
Omar Sadr and Nader Hashemi discuss Islam and democracy.
Nader Hashemi is the Director of the Alwaleed Center for Muslim-Christian Understanding and an Associate Professor of Middle East and Islamic Politics at the Edmund A. Walsh School of Foreign Service at Georgetown University.
Readings:
ISLAM, SECULARISM, AND LIBERAL DEMOCRACY
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23. History & Antisemitism with Barnett Rubin
Omar Sadr and Barnett Rubin discuss Jewish history and antisemitism.
Barnett R. Rubin is a Distinguished Fellow at the Stimson Center. He is a Non-Resident Senior Fellow at the Quincy Institute Responsible Statecraft and at New York University’s Center on International Cooperation, where he was Senior Fellow and Director of the Afghanistan Regional Program from 2000 to 2020. From April 2009 until October 2013, Rubin was senior adviser to the U.S. Special Representative for Afghanistan and Pakistan. In 2001 he served as senior advisor to the UN Special Representative of the Secretary General for Afghanistan.
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22. Lior Sternfeld on Controversies in Universities
Lior Sternfeld discusses the recent controversies on the American campus
LIOR STERNFELD is a Professor of History and Jewish Studies at Penn State University. He is a social historian of the modern Middle East with particular interests in the histories of the Jewish people and other minorities of the region. His first book, titled “Between Iran and Zion: Jewish Histories of Twentieth-Century Iran,” examines the development and integration of Jewish communities in Iran into the nation-building projects of the last century.
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21. Consociational democracy for Afghanistan with Haqmal Daudzai
Omar Sadr talks to Haqmal Daudzai on consociational democracy in Afghanistan
Dr. Haqmal Daudzai is a researcher at the Dutch Royal Academy in Amsterdam, Netherlands. His book, The Statebuilding Dilemma in Afghanistan, the state governmental design at the national level and the Role of democratic provincial councils in Decentralization at the sub-national Level- was published reviews the US/NATO intervention and the subsequent state institutional design at Afghanistan's national and subnational levels since 2001. Dr. Daudzai has previously worked with USAID as a political advisor to the Afghanistan National Parliament in Kabul.
Suggested readings: The State-Building Dilemma in Afghanistan: The State Governmental Design at the National Level and the Role of Democratic Provincial Councils in Decentralization at the Sub-National Level, Budrich Academic Press, 2021.
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20. On Afghanistan Women Movement with Halima Kazem
Omar Sadr talks to Halima Kazem on "Bread, Work, Freedom" Movement of Afghanistan Women
Halima is a lecturer, historian, and filmmaker whose work intersects in the areas of gender, empire, human rights, and media. Her primary research focuses on Afghanistan and other Muslim countries with long histories of conflict. Her work is deeply rooted in feminist methodologies and 20 years of working as a journalist and human rights researcher.
Suggested readings:
Human Rights Watch: Afghanistan: Taliban Deprive Women of Livelihoods, Identity Severe Restrictions, Harassment, Fear in Ghazni Province, Human Rights Watch
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19. On Polycentric Democracy & Pluralism with Julian Muller
Omar Sadr talks to Julian F. Müller on Pluralism and polycentric democracy.
Julian is a Senior Research Associate at the University of Hamburg. Prior to that Julian was a postdoctoral research fellow at the Political Theory Project at Brown University and research associate at the Peter Loescher Endowed Chair of Business Ethics at Technical University of Munich and a visiting scholar at the University of Arizona. His doctoral dissertation - published under the title Political Pluralism, Disagreement and Justice: The Case for a Polycentric Democracy won several research prizes.
Suggested readings:
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18. Network State and Political Order in Afghanistan with Timor Sharan
Omar Sadr talks to Timor Sharan on his book Inside Afghanistan: Political Networks, Informal Order, and State Disruption. Dr Timor Sharan is a visiting fellow at the University of Oxford. His expertise is on the relationship between counterinsurgency efforts, transnational financial flows, and violence as well as organised crime, corruption, and the political economy of international state building with a particular focus on Afghanistan. He is a fellow at the Centre on Armed Groups and a Research Associate Fellow with Overseas Development Institute. He was an Associate Fellow at the London School of Economics, IDEAS foreign policy think tank, in 2021-2022. He holds a PhD from the University of Exeter and an MPhil from the University of Cambridge. Suggested readings:
Sharan, Timor. 2023. Inside Afghanistan: Political Networks, Informal Order, and State Disruption. London: Routledge.
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17. The Return of the Taliban: Afghanistan After Americans Lefts: Book Discussion with Abbas Hassan
Omar Sadr talks to Hassan Abbas on his book The Return of the Taliban: Afghanistan After Americans Left Hassan Abbas is Distinguished Professor of International Relations at the Near East South Asia Strategic Studies Centre (NESA), National Defense University in Washington DC. Suggested readings:
The Return of the Taliban: Afghanistan After Americans Left The Taliban Revival: Violence and Extremism in Pakistan – Afghanistan Frontier published in 2015 by Yale University Press
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16. How to improve democracy with Charles Dunst (Book Discussion)
Omar Sadr talks to Charles Dunst on how to improve quality of democracies. Charles Dunst is deputy director of research & analytics at The Asia Group, an adjunct fellow at the Center for Strategic and International Studies, and a contributing editor of American Purpose. Suggested readings: Defeating the Dictators: How Democracy Can Prevail in the Age of the Strongman (Hodder & Stoughton, February 2023).
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15. Human Rights, Relativism and the Taliban with Michael Goodhart
Omar Sadr talks to Michael Goodhart on human rights as a political contestation Michael Goodhart is Professor of Political Science and of Gender, Sexuality, and Women's Studies. His core research interests include democracy, human rights, (in)justice, and emancipatory political struggles. Suggested readings:
Injustice: Political Theory for the Real World. Oxford University Press (2018).
“Constructing dignity: Human rights as a praxis of egalitarian freedom,” Journal of Human Rights (2018).
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14. State Fragility with Nemat Bezhan (Book Discussion)
Omar Sadr talks to Nemat Bezhan on state fragility and resilience
Nematullah Bizhan is a Lecturer in Public Policy at the Development Policy Centre, Crawford school of Public Policy, Australian National University. He is also a Senior Research Associate with the Global Economic Governance Program, Blavatnik School of Government, Oxford University. in association with the Oxford-LSE Commission on State Fragility, Growth and Development, he worked on state fragility and international policy.
Suggested readings:
Bizhan, N. (2023). State Fragility: Case Studies and Comparisons. ed. (New York: Routledge).
Bizhan, N. (2017) Aid Paradoxes in Afghanistan: Building and Undermining the State (New York: Routledge).
Bizhan, N. (2017). Revenue and State Building in Afghanistan. In Afghanistan: Challenges and Prospects, ed. Srinjoy Bose, Nishank Motwani and William Malay (London: Routledge).
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13. Democratic Resilience in eastern Europe with Jan Rovny
Omar Sadr talks to Jan Rovny on democratic resilience and pluralism in eastern Europe.
Jan Rovny an associate professor at Sciences Po, Paris. His research concentrates on political competition in Europe with the aim of uncovering the political conflict lines in different countries. He explores the issues that political parties contest across the continent, the strategies that different parties follow, as well as the preferences and voting patterns of voters.
Suggested Reading
Jan Rovny. Antidote to Backsliding: Ethnic Politics and Democratic Resilience, American Political Science Review, 2023
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12. Democratic backsliding and populism in Turkey with Bengi Gumrukcu
Omar Sadr talks to Bengi Gumrukcu on democratic backsliding, populism, Islamism in Turkey.
Bengi Gumrukcu is lecturer of political science at Rutgers University. She studies various aspects of social movements, political parties, far right, violence and Europeanization and Euroscepticism, mainly focusing on the case of Turkey.
Suggested readings:
Bengi Gumrukcu. "Populist discourse, (counter-) mobilizations and democratic backsliding in Turkey”, Turkish Studies, 2022
Bengi Gumrukcu. "Forming Pre-Electoral Coalitions in Competitive Authoritarian Contexts: The Case of the 2018 Parliamentary Elections in Turkey,” Journal of Balkan and Near Eastern, 2022.
Sebnem Gumuscu. Democracy or Authoritarianism Islamist Governments in Turkey, Egypt, and Tunisia. Cambridge University Press
Hanspeter Kriesi. "Revisiting the Populist Challenge", Politologicky Casopis/ Czech Journal of Political Science. 2018.
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11. Transitional Justice, Human Rights and Land Grabbing with Huma Saeed (Book Discussion)
Omar talks to Huma Saeed on Transitional Justice, Human Rights and Socio-Economic Harm
Huma Saeed is an affiliated researcher at the Leuven Institute of Criminology, Belgium.
Suggested readings:
Huma Saeed, Transitional Justice and Socio-Economic Harm: Land Grabbing in Afghanistan, Routledge: 2023
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10 بحث کتاب: دولت مدرن و هراس از کثرت گرایی در افغانستان
This is an exceptional episode in Persian-Dari/Tajiki
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9. Zan, Zendagi, Azadi: Protests in Iran with Mohamad Machine-Chain
Omar talks to Mohamad Machine-Chain on protests in Iran.
Mohamad Machine-Chian is a research scholar at the Center for Governance and Markets, University of Pittsburgh. He has authored several books on privatization, constitutionalism, immigration, and economic reform. He is the founder and editor of bourgeois.ir.
Suggested readings:
Max, Fisher. Even as Iranians Rise Up, Protests Worldwide Are Failing at Record Rates. New York Times. 2022
Parnshu Verma. Reporting in Iran could get you jailed. This outlet is doing it anyway. The Washington Post. 2022
Robin, Wright. Iran's Protests Are the First Counter-Revolution Led by Women. The Economist. 2022
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8. Twenty Years of Democracy in Afghanistan with Scott Worden
Omar discusses the Post 2011 democracy of Afghanistan with Scott Worden.
Scott Worden is director of Afghanistan and Central Asia Programs at the U.S. Institute of Peace (USIP). At his previous time with USIP, Worden directed Rule of Law development programs for the USIP and served as a United Nations-appointed Electoral Complaints Commissioner for the 2009 Afghanistan elections, as well as advising the U.N. on elections in 2005-06.
Suggested readings:
- Scott Worden. Afghanistan An Election Gone Awry. Journal of Democracy. 2010.
- Scott Worden. Political Stability in Afghanistan: A 2020 Vision and Roadmap. USIP. 2017.
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7. Negotiating Diversity in Afghanistan (Book Discussion)
Omar Sadr discusses his book Negotiating Cultural Diversity in Afghanistan with Noah Coburn.
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6. Rights, Legal Scholarship and the Study of the Taliban with Haroun Rahimi
Omar Sadr talks to Haroun Rahimi about the notion of rights, how the contestation between the liberal and Islamic notions of right took place, how the law scholars studied the totalitarian Taliban, and finally why legal scholarship in Afghanistan has been avoiding a critical approach about the Taliban.
Dr. Haroun Rahimi is an Assistant Professor of Law at the American University of Afghanistan. In his research, Dr. Rahimi studies law and development, and institutional reform. He is also an associate editor for the Manchester Journal of Transnational Islamic Law & Practice.
Suggested readings:
- MacIntyre, Alasdair. 1984. After Virtue: A Study in Moral Theory. Notre Dame, Ind: University of Notre Dame Press.
- Faiz Ahmed, Afghanistan Rising: Islamic Law and Statecraft between the Ottoman and British Empires. Cambridge, MA: Harvard University Press.
- Jennifer Murtazashvili. 2016. Informal Order and the State in Afghanistan. Published online by Cambridge University Press.
- Haroun Rahimi. 2021. A Constitutional Reckoning with The Taliban’s Brand of Islamist Politics: The Hard Path Ahead, Kabul: AISS.
- Haroun Rahimi. 2021. Afghanistan’s laws and legal institutions under the Taliban” Melbourn Asia Review.
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5. State Formation in Afghanistan with Mujib Rahimi (Book Discussion)
Omar Sadr talks to Mujib Rahimi about his book State Formation in Afghanistan: A Theoretical and Political History.
Mujib Rahman Rahimi is a writer, political analyst, and translator. He is a PhD graduate from the University of Essex. He served as senior advisor to Dr Abdullah Abdullah, and spokesperson of the Office of Chief Executive at the National Unity Government and High Council for National Reconciliation.
Suggested readings
- Jonathan L. Lee. 1996. The Ancient Supremacy: Bukhara, Afghanistan, and the Battle for Balkh, 1731-1901
- B. Hopkins. 2008. The Making of Modern Afghanistan.
- Book Review by Omar Sadr کتاب روایت فرودستان
- Omar Sadr. 2020. Negotiating Cultural Diversity in Afghanistan
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4. The Taliban, the State and Governance with Dipali Mukhopadhyay
Omar Sadr talks to Dr Dipali Mukhopadhyay about the Taliban's model of governance, their perception of the state, and their ideology.
Dipali Mukhopadhyay is an associate professor in the global policy area at the Humphrey School of Public Affairs. Her research focuses on the relationships between political violence, state building, and governance during and after war. She is currently serving as senior expert on the Afghanistan peace process for the U.S. Institute of Peace. She is the author of Good Rebel Governance: Revolutionary Politics and Western Intervention in Syria (Cambridge University Press, forthcoming) with Kimberly Howe, and Warlords, Strongman Governors and State Building in Afghanistan (Cambridge University Press, 2014).
Further Readings
- Dipali Mukhopadhyay, The Taliban Have Not Moderated | Foreign Affairs
- Dipali Mukhopadhyay, Review: The American War in Afghanistan: A History (issforum.org)
- Noah Coburn, Bazaar Politics: Power and Pottery in an Afghan Market Town
- Juan R. I. Cole, The Taliban, Women, and the Hegelian Private Sphere Vol. 70, No. 3, Islam: The Public and Private Spheres (fall 2003),
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3. Totalitarianism, The Taliban and Peace in Afghanistan with William Maley
Omar Sadr speaks with Professor William Maley about totalitarianism, the Taliban, and the design of the 2018 peace negotiations of Afghanistan.
Emeritus Professor William Maley served as Professor of Diplomacy at the ANU from 2003-2021, and was Foundation Director of the Asia-Pacific College of Diplomacy from 1 July 2003 to 31 December 2014.
Suggested readings
- Why Now? — The Afghanistan-Ukraine Nexus (Australian Institute of International Affairs)
- The collapse in Afghanistan has corroded the credibility of Joe Biden – and United States (scroll.in)
- Diplomacy of Disaster: Afghanistan ‘Peace Process’ and the Taliban Occupation of Kabul (princeton.edu)
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2. Afghanistan's Lessons for Liberalism
Speaking with Dr Jennifer Murtazashvili of the University of Pittsburgh about pluralism and liberalism in Afghanistan.
Dr. Omar Sadr joined CGM as a senior research scholar in October of 2021. Prior to this, he served as an Assistant Professor of Political Science at the American University of Afghanistan (AUAF). He is the author of Negotiating Cultural Diversity in Afghanistan (2020). His work has appeared in venues such as Fair Observer, The Atlantic Council and The National Interest. His primary research interests include democratic governance, governance of cultural diversity, intercultural dialogue, and multiculturalism, as well as the political history of Afghanistan. Dr. Sadr also served as a researcher at the Afghanistan Institute for Strategic Studies (AISS) and as a researcher at the Department of Peace Studies with the National Centre for Policy Research (NCPR) in Kabul University.
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1. introduction: What is Negotiating Ideas about?
Negotiating Ideas Podcast
Hello and welcome to Negotiating Ideas a Podcast about political thought on democracy, pluralism, state and peace in Afghanistan. I am your host, Omar Sadr.
…
I am a scholar in exile, forced to flee my homeland overnight due to the Taliban’s brutality. In this podcast, as in my research, I explore how totalitarianism threatens democracies and the ways in which societies reinstitute freedom, democracy, and pluralism.
Unlike the rise of illiberal authoritarian regimes in the West that have drawn considerable attention, the Taliban’s triumph in Afghanistan passed with deadly silence of the liberal public intellectuals both in the West and the rest. Little effort has been made to unpack the totalitarian nature of the Taliban. Instead, an overwhelming level of policy efforts has been devoted to the consolidation of the Taliban regime, despite their violent fundamentalism, horrific levels of human rights violations, and war crimes. Atrocities committed by the Taliban are also being continuously downplayed by systematic disinformation. The Taliban regime has found its allies not just among the ultra-right Islamist groups but also in governments that have supported and endorsed numerous Islamist groups in the Middle East and beyond.
At the times when democracy and liberalism are under persistent threat—not only from authoritarian states but also from disinformation, radical groups, militants, terrorists, and populism—it is important to create alternative spaces to better understand forms of authoritarianism and ways to defend free societies. Some may call these times an ‘age of anger, others may call it ‘being enveloped in kind of pessimism’. These terms are provocative but do nonetheless reflect a melancholic understanding of the current world. The pessimism is also because of the inability of the liberal to actively formulate and defend the values of a free society. Like some other places in the world, the liberal of the past 20 years in Afghanistan could not organize themselves in an efficient way and did not find a political home. There could be multiple reasons for this. Of them could be a lack of discussion and debate among the liberal themselves.
My goal in starting the Negotiating Ideas Podcast is to create a space for those who value pluralism, democracy, and liberty to find each other to develop solidarity and clarity. The podcast will invite academics, public intellectuals, and other thought leaders to discuss their ideas in the realm of political reform, constitutionalism, secularism, democracy, social movement, rights, and pluralism. Hosted every two weeks by me, Omar Sadr, the podcast will take the form of semi-structured, free-flowing conversations, which will create opportunities to dive deeper into the realm of ideas.
…
Join me in conversations with academics, public intellectuals, and a range of thought leaders, young and old, as we unpack these phenomena every two weeks. I also welcome ideas for potential topics and speakers and invite you to share your suggestions with me at negotiatingidea@gmail.com. I am very thankful to all for tuning in and look forward to our conversations.
At the end, I would like to thank Center for Governance and Markets (CGM) and Center for Teaching and Learning at the University of Pittsburgh for their help in setting up this podcast.