Small Talk With The Lys

By The Ly Bros

You get to be a fly on the wall in Brandon and Justin's homes!

Join the Ly brothers as they discuss culture, religion, politics, and the nitty gritty of life.

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Ep. 30 The CES Letter - DNA/Archaeology

Small Talk With The LysJun 02, 2020

00:00

01:10:50

Ep. 32 Deutero-Isaiah Problem Explored In-Depth (pt. 2)

While some claim the value of the Book of Mormon stems from its historicity, problems like multiple scholarship of Isaiah challenge these claims.

We present the first ever (that we are aware of) LDS comprehensive outlook on the Deutero-Isaiah problem of the Book of Mormon and how LDS apologists deal with the anachronism that Lehi and Nephi could not possibly have had access to the later Isaiah chapters.

Part 1 - Introduction to the Deutero-Isaiah Problem

Part 2 - Arguments for/against Multiple Authorship of Isaiah

YouTube live version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYTePAdIy5s&t=2s

View the powerpoint and scripture verses referenced here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1lZnbHgaoREdhPlxXccxk0QnFd1tcTiBY/view?usp=sharing

Blog article explaining our motivation for doing this podcast: https://medium.com/@BrandonLy1/why-the-ces-letter-a05254bc3950

Jun 17, 202001:35:30

Ep. 31 Intro to the Deutero-Isaiah Problem

While some claim the value of the Book of Mormon stems from its historicity, problems like multiple scholarship of Isaiah challenge these claims. We present the first ever (that we are aware of) LDS comprehensive outlook on the Deutero-Isaiah problem of the Book of Mormon and how LDS apologists deal with the anachronism that Lehi and Nephi could not possibly have had access to the later Isaiah chapters. Part 1 - Introduction to the Deutero-Isaiah Problem Part 2 - Arguments for/against Multiple Authorship of Isaiah YouTube live version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYTePAdIy5s&t=2s View the powerpoint and scripture verses referenced here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1lZnbHgaoREdhPlxXccxk0QnFd1tcTiBY/view?usp=sharing Blog article explaining our motivation for doing this podcast: https://medium.com/@BrandonLy1/why-the-ces-letter-a05254bc3950

Jun 09, 202045:48

Ep. 30 The CES Letter - DNA/Archaeology

Is there any evidence for the Book of Mormon as a historical record?
In this episode we debate whether DNA studies and archaeology can sufficiently prove/disprove the Book of Mormon's historicity. While none of us are specialists on DNA or archaeology, we summarize the arguments of critics and apologists in layman's terms.

~~ Why the CES Letter? (Blog post explaining my motivation for doing this podcast): medium.com/@BrandonLy1/why-the-ces-letter-a05254bc3950
Music: "This Is Everything" by Josh Woodward. From the Free Music Archive. CC BY

Jun 02, 202001:10:50

Ep. 29 The CES Letter - The Eleven Witnesses (pt. 9)

Are the witnesses to the Book of Mormon credible?

The CES letter tries to discredit the eleven witnesses to the Book of Mormon while apologists argue they are one of the strongest pieces of evidence in favor of the book's validity. We examine the witnesses and their statements on "spiritual eyes" vs physical descriptions of the plates and discuss James Strange and the Plates of Laban.

~~ Why the CES Letter? (Blog post explaining my motivation for doing this podcast): https://medium.com/@BrandonLy1/why-the-ces-letter-a05254bc3950

~~ PowerPoint Presentation (PDF) https://drive.google.com/open?id=1lZnbHgaoREdhPlxXccxk0QnFd1tcTiBY

Music: "This Is Everything" by Josh Woodward. From the Free Music Archive. CC BY

May 05, 202040:11

Ep. 28 The CES Letter - Book of Mormon as Midrash

Can one find value in the Book of Mormon, while dismissing it as an ancient history?
We set the stage to our discussion of the CES Letter arguments against the BoM by proposing a faithful, yet intellectually honest way of viewing the controversial book.

Greg Prince interview on Mormon Stories: www.churchistrue.com/blog/greg-prince-on-new-mormonism/
Why the CES Letter? (Blog post explaining my motivation for doing this podcast): medium.com/@BrandonLy1/why-the-ces-letter-a05254bc3950
Music: "This Is Everything" by Josh Woodward. From the Free Music Archive. CC BY

May 01, 202057:20

Ep. 27 The CES Letter - The Prophet Puzzle in Light of the Book of Abraham (pt. 7)

There's a joke circulating around that "The only thing we can be sure Joseph Smith believed in was astrology, as he died wearing a Jupiter amulet."
Although the rumor is likely false, it shines light on the deep mystery of the nature and psychology of Joseph Smith. The more we dig, the more mysterious Joseph becomes. www.fairmormon.org/answers/Joseph_Smith/Occultism_and_magic/Jupiter_talisman
This paradox has been famously termed the "Prophet Puzzle" by non-Mormon LDS studies scholar, Jan Shipps, and continues to puzzle the field of Mormon Studies over 45 years later. www.sunstonemagazine.com/four-views-of-joseph-smith-historians-debate-the-prophet-puzzle/
In this episode, we discuss the competing, speculative theories on Joseph Smith's psyche in light of the problematic Book of Abraham translation and claim of historicity. While most "Prophet Puzzle" discussions lean on the Book of Mormon as its primary context, the Book of Abraham presents a more difficult problem in which we have more definitive historical knowledge about the translation process and artifacts. We try to tackle the unanswered questions that remain after one reads the LDS gospel topics essay on the Book of Abraham, in which the catalyst theory is proposed but no explanation given in reconciling Joseph Smith's claim that it was written by Abraham, "by his own hand upon papyrus".
Do you think Don Bradley's prophetic explanation, Ann Tave's "inspired visionary" argument, Dan Vogel's "pious fraud" hypothesis, or Christopher Smith's conman claims hold any water? Let us know what you think of the Prophet Puzzle question in the comments.
***
Google Drive link to Alejandro's "catalyst theory" argument: bit.ly/3a4GJFU
Why the CES Letter? (Blog post explaining my motivation for doing this podcast): medium.com/@BrandonLy1/why-the-ces-letter-a05254bc3950
Music: "This Is Everything" by Josh Woodward. From the Free Music Archive. CC BY

Feb 25, 202045:49

Ep. 26 The CES Letter - Strongest Case for the Catalyst Theory? (pt. 6)

Critics of the Book of Abraham have long pointed out the flaws of Joseph Smith's "translation" of Egyptian from the Facsimiles.
"As early as 1913, intelligentsia and leadership alike of the LDS church acknowledged that Smith had failed to meet the standards of contemporary scholarship regarding his translation efforts."
-Terryl Givens
bit.ly/2HzIqis
Over a hundred years ago, B.H. Roberts made an argument similar to the "catalyst" theory promoted by the LDS gospel topics essay today.
bit.ly/2P2gHLo
In the February 1913 edition of the Improvement Era, he wrote:
"Joseph Smith's purpose, as higher critics say the purpose of the New Testament writers was, NOT TO WRITE HISTORY, BUT TO EDIFY," to teach some religious truth "which they regarded as all important;" not to give out correct translations of ancient documents, but to give the world some "spiritual allegory, or drama." [emphasis added]
bit.ly/2HxIyPF
But the "catalyst theory" - an attempt to allow the Book of Abraham to be considered an inspired work without necessarily having historicity - is problematic to some critics. If Joseph Smith's work should be viewed as pseudipigraphic, believers are left with thorny questions such as "How could Joseph Smith think he was translating an ancient document when he really wasn't?" or "Why would Joseph Smith claim the Book of Abraham was 'by his own hand written upon papyrus'?"
bit.ly/37GXbuN
In this episode of our series on The CES Letter, 4 Mormons attempt to make what they think to be the strongest possible argument and evidence in favor of the catalyst theory. Referencing the $2,400 expenditure of the scrolls (~$76,000 today), the First Vision as a "higher consciousness" experience, and the "onto-normativity" and continual attempt by Joseph Smith to experience the divine, we attempt to argue for a more complicated approach to understanding Joseph Smith's worldview from a psychological standpoint.
We will continue our discussion of the "prophet puzzle" and psychology of Joseph Smith in next week's episode: "The Prophet Puzzle in Light of the Book of Abraham."
***
Why the CES Letter? (Blog post explaining my motivation for doing this podcast): medium.com/@BrandonLy1/why-the-ces-letter-a05254bc3950
Music: "This Is Everything" by Josh Woodward. From the Free Music Archive. CC BY

Feb 18, 202001:01:53

Ep. 25 The CES Letter - Book of Abraham Translation Issues (pt. 5)

We discuss the multitude of problems in the Book of Abraham translation process and examine apologetic responses including the "missing scroll" and "long scroll" theories.

Brian Hauglid changes his mind: proveallthingsholdfasttogood.wordpress.com/book-of-abraham-apologist-brian-hauglids-transformative-journey/
Dan Vogel's work documented on YouTube was extremely helpful for us in this disucssion: www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtJT_xjIgdM
Why the CES Letter? (Blog post explaining my motivation for doing this podcast): medium.com/@BrandonLy1/why-the-ces-letter-a05254bc3950

Music: "This Is Everything" by Josh Woodward. From the Free Music Archive. CC BY

Feb 11, 202001:12:42

Ep. 24 The CES Letter - Applying Higher Criticism to the Book of Abraham (pt. 4)

This episode features a deep dive into the Book of Abraham issues. We explore higher criticism (the scholarly study of scripture) and try to apply it to the Book of Abraham. Although the "CES Letter" and most apologists do not deal directly with this issue, we find it important enough to include in our discussion of the CES Letter issues. Issues discussed: background info to the Book of Abraham, Ur of Chaldees and location of Abraham, Genesis 11 and 12 discrepancy and how Abraham 2 reconciles this, and how Joseph Smith might have possibly known about the ancient traditions of Abraham and idolatry, human sacrifice, and astronomy. Very interesting interview with David Bokovoy on Mormon Stories: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VloMOGotKTw&feature=emb_logo LDS Gospel Topics essay: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics-essays/translation-and-historicity-of-the-book-of-abraham?lang=eng Why the CES Letter? (Blog post explaining my motivation for doing this podcast): https://medium.com/@BrandonLy1/why-the-ces-letter-a05254bc3950 Music: "This Is Everything" by Josh Woodward. From the Free Music Archive. CC BY

Feb 04, 202043:26

Ep. 23 The CES Letter - Is Spiritual Witness Valid? (pt. 3)

A common reaction to the CES Letter is "I've had too many spiritual experiences so [the CES Letter] doesn't matter".
In this episode, Brandon, Justin, Alejandro, and Andre discuss their views on the validity of spiritual witnesses and the epistemology of testimony.

Why the CES Letter? (Blog post explaining my motivation for doing this podcast): medium.com/@BrandonLy1/why-the-ces-letter-a05254bc3950
The Phenomenology of the Divine (Jordan Peterson): www.youtube.com/watch?v=UoQdp2prfmM

Music: "This Is Everything" by Josh Woodward. From the Free Music Archive. CC BY

Jan 28, 202046:44

Ep. 22 The CES Letter - Our Testimony and Backgrounds (pt. 2)

In part 2 of this podcast series on the "CES Letter", 4 members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints discuss their "testimony" and share their story of why they hold some of the perspectives they have today.

This episode will help you better understand where each person is coming from as you hear their reactions to the CES Letter material.

Why the CES Letter? (Blog post explaining my motivation for doing this podcast): https://medium.com/@BrandonLy1/why-the-ces-letter-a05254bc3950

Music: "This Is Everything" by Josh Woodward. From the Free Music Archive. CC BY

Jan 21, 202051:35

Ep. 21 The CES Letter - Intro and Alternative Paradigms (pt. 1)

The “CES Letter” challenges literal/infallible McConkie-like worldviews. Those who read it may find themselves compelled to shift to a new paradigm like those of Jim Bennett, Richard Bushman, the symbolic worldview, or faithlessness. The “CES Letter” is essential reading for those who want to make Mormonism survive throughout the internet age of the 21st century.
In this podcast series we discuss the challenges to Mormonism brought up by the "CES Letter". In part 1, we introduce what the letter is about and discuss potential (faithful or non-faithful) working frameworks in which to process the information.
You might find my article explaining "Why the CES Letter" helpful before listening to this podcast series: bit.ly/2uJgKol

Music: "This Is Everything" by Josh Woodward. From the Free Music Archive. CC BY

Jan 13, 202028:54

Ep. 20 Escaping the 'Political Rabbit Hole' with Your Senses Intact

Political ideas grip people's minds and shape the way we perceive the world.

Brandon and Justin talk about their intellectual flirtation with libertarianism and how psychology and religion transcend the political paradigm.

Jan 07, 202030:35

Ep. 19 Roundtable Discussion on the Whistleblower Letter to the IRS

On a recent podcast, Ex-Mormon Ryan McKnight said (I'm paraphrasing): "Nobody's gonna leave [the Church] over this...Probably"

Commenting on the recent Washington Post leak "Mormon Church has misled members on $100 billion", Ryan McKnight believes that the whistleblower allegations of fraud and tax evasion are incorrect and a distraction from members having a serious conversations about the Church's financial transparency.

In this episode, we discuss the allegations against the Church, our frustration with members and non-members' responses, and our views on whether the Church should be more open about their finances to its members.

This is a long episode, but it gets into some serious (and sometimes funny) rabbit holes. Totally worth listening to.

Please leave a comment if you liked (or didn't like) our discussion!

Short Medium Article explaining the allegations (4 minute read): https://bit.ly/35Ra2u7

Mormon Happy Hour Podcast with MormonLeaks Founder Ryan McKnight: https://bit.ly/35XoS2o

WaPo article: https://wapo.st/35MsAM1

Public Square Magazine: https://publicsquaremag.org/editorials/the-100-billion-mormon-church-story-a-contextual-analysis/

Dec 23, 201901:16:33

Ep. 18 Is Bitcoin Dead? (pt. 2)

Is Bitcoin Dead?

Nov. 22, 2019 - Forbes publishes "Bitcoin Isn’t Down Because of China, It’s Down Because You Don’t Need It"

Sep. 23, 2019 - Bakkt launches 1st BTC settled futures

Oct. 18, 2019 - 18 millionth BTC mined, leaving only 3 million left

Oct. 22, 2019 - Hash rate (network security) reaches all-time-high of 114 exahashes per second

October - Chinese President Xi Jinping endorses blockchain as ‘an important breakthrough for independent innovation of core technologies’

Nov. 17, 2019 - Bitcoin ATMs worldwide hit new milestone surpassing 6,000.

Nov 29, 2019 - HSBC Moves $20 Billion From Paper To Blockchain

Dec. 6, 2019 - Deutsche Bank publishes 2030 report stating 'Cryptocurrency will go mainstream by 2030'

Dec. 6, 2019 - Total Bitcoin addresses with any balance reaches new all-time-high

Dec. 9, 2019 - Bakkt launches 1st regulated BTC options

Dec. 10, 2019 - BTC YTD price up 119.47% from $3,355.25 - Compare that to the Dow, up 19.6% YTD and S&P up 25.10% YTD

Major Companies that Accept Bitcoin: Microsoft, Expedia, Overstock, select Subways, NewEgg, AT&T, Dish Network, Whole Foods, Nordstrom, Lowe's, Petco, Office Depot, Shopify, Wikipedia,

2020 - Starbucks to accept Bitcoin via new Bakkt app

May 14 2020? - Next Bitcoin halvening

Summer 2020 - Facebook's stable coin Libra to be released?

Dec. 31, 2020 - McAfee predicts BTC price to reach $1 Million or he will eat his dick

Is Bitcoin really dying? Will it go to zero? Is it all just a bubble?

We don't think so.

Find out why in this episode.

Dec 10, 201921:34

Ep. 17 IDK anything about Bitcoin, Does It Matter? (pt. 1)

In part 1 we discuss:

Why you should care about the internet 3.0 (blockchain)

How Bitcoin and blockchain are related

Our reaction to Peter Schiff, gold-bug, facing an onslaught of verbal abuse by Bitcoin enthusiast, Max Kaiser

Dec 03, 201918:35

Ep. 16 Take Your Time (ft. Aija Aini)

Our good friend Jake Hawkes (who goes by Aija Aini on Spotify) reveals his latest album with us called Take Your Time.

Listen to Jake's album "Take Your Time" on Spotify:

https://open.spotify.com/album/0nOHqGEdvUieY6oILnb8yM

Listen to the full interview with Small Talk with the Lys on YouTube:

https://youtu.be/MOIW6IQVrEk

Nov 26, 201921:32

Ep. 15 The Psychology of Faith Crisis - When Latter-day Saints Break Frame (pt. 2)

In continuation of last week's episode on the Jordan Peterson Lobster Conference held in Springville, Utah, we discuss:

Faith Crisis and Latter-day Saints
The CES Letter
Sam Young and 'Protect the Children'
John Dehlin's YouTube channel 'Mormon Stories'
Jordan Peterson and Breaking/Rebuilding Frame

Nov 19, 201949:60

Ep. 14 A Restoration of Heresies? Shared Roots of Gnosticism, Jordan Peterson, and Mormonism (pt. 1)

In part 1 Alejandro Rodriguez shares his story on how his bishop refused to post a Jordan Peterson event on the ward page because it was deemed "too political".

I attended that event and rather than finding a group discussing gender pronouns and Bill C-16, I was pleasantly surprised to listen to three different lectures on psychology, Pharisees, and Gnosticism.

We discuss things like felix culpa ('fortunate fall') and personal revelation (anti-creedism) with Alejandro who helps provide answers to our questions about an unusual connection between an ancient heretic Christian movement called Gnosticism with Jordan Peterson's religious philosophy and Mormonism.

Nov 12, 201944:36

Ep. 12 We Discuss Serial Killers! (Bonus segment: The True Meaning of Halloween)

Happy Halloween!
In this episode, we talk about the symbolism/origins of Halloween based on Jonathan Pageau's YouTube video: www.youtube.com/watch?v=21Kb_1mtytQ
Have you ever wondered why we celebrate Halloween? We talk about some of the religious traditions that led up to the celebration of Halloween and how we may be missing a vital component of it.
Following this we discuss the following serial killers:
1) Charles Manson
2) Joseph Fritzl
3) Dorothea Puente
Charles Manson is definitely the most well known of the 3, but possibly not as evil as the other 2! It's up for debate though.

Oct 29, 201901:17:35

Ep. 11 Brawl Talk -- Is Jordan Peterson the Antichrist?

Will Jordan Peterson lead people to God? Or seduce them with a substitute?

We debate the pros and cons of Jordan Peterson on faith, religion, and Christianity.

A meme posted on facebook titled 'Jordan Peterson is the Antichrist' was immediately met with a lot of reaction. People were confused and even angry at such comments. Although this wasn't our post, Brandon put up a similar post and was met with the same reactions - confusion and bewilderment.

We don't think Jordan Peterson's a bad guy, but let's have a serious talk about his philosophy on scriptures and Jesus - how an intellectual approach to religion affects faith.

Justin debates the For side, Brandon defends the Against position w/Sangji as moderator,

Oct 22, 201901:32:39