The Substance
By The Substance Team
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The SubstanceJun 19, 2022
154: Felicia Wu Song Replay (Ep. 89)
This episode was remarkable for how high it made it on our highest download charts when our guest doesn’t have a traditional social media presence. What she does have however, is a track record of high quality work and an email list of folks who love what she does. Our conversation about personal and spiritual formation in a technology saturated world was really valuable for us and as it doesn’t look like our world will be having less tech anytime soon, this should be just as relevant for the foreseeable future.
If this is your first time listening to this, we hope you like it! Let us know on social media or email us a note or a voicemail and tell us what you think.
Reminder that we are still collecting for a thank you gift for Editor Dave for his great work at The Substance for the last year or so and if you send us something for him on CashApp ($thesubstancepod) make sure to let us know in the notes that it's for him!
153: Bradly Mason Replay (Ep. 56)
Our conversation with Bradly in 2021 was the fastest episode to hit 1,000 downloads and for good reason! We talked not only about CRT but about how and why conversations focused on addressing societal shortcomings and human failure can so easily get hijacked by bad actors and have many people in the general public confused and worked up, often by the wrong things.
If this is your first time listening to this, we hope you like it! Let us know on social media or email us a note or a voicemail and tell us what you think.
Reminder that we are still collecting for a thank you gift for Editor Dave for his great work at The Substance for the last year or so and if you send us something for him on CashApp ($thesubstancepod) make sure to let us know in the notes that it's for him!
152: Deconstruction, Healing, and Found Family feat. Margaret Bronson
Margaret’s IG: www.instagram.com/margaretrosebronson
Website: deconstructiondoula.myflodesk.com
151: Birding, Grief, and the Beauty of Nature feat. Courtney Ellis
This week on The Substance, we are welcoming back a returning guest and talking about a book that has the best cover we've seen in quite some time! Courtney Ellis returns to the show and this time we are talking about her new book from InterVarsity Press, Looking Up: A Birder's Guide To Hope Through Grief. It's a beautiful book that is part memoir, part counseling session, and part sales pitch for the hobby of birding (Spoiler Alert: we have already downloaded the Merlin Bird ID app since our conversation with Courtney).
We also talk coffee vs. tea, how birding has positively impacted her life (including relationships that span ideological boundaries), natural theology and why we don't need to be afraid of it, the role of her grandparents in her formation, and much more! Courtney is also the first guest we have had who has nerded out with my son about their mutual affinity for the Wild Kratts (stay tuned to the end).
We hope you enjoy the show and if you do, we invite you to write a 5-star review and share it with a friend!
Courtney's previous appearance on The Substance (Ep. 65)!
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The Thing With Feathers podcast
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150: Un-Substantive Cinema | Hot Shots! Part Deux feat. Dale_A
Happy April Fool's Day! We had a great time covering Manos: The Hands of Fate back in 2022 and we were bummed that we missed it last year but are delighted to be back this April Fool's with another Un-Substantive Cinema show. This year it's Hot Shots! Part Deux, one of the silliest movies of all time. Written and directed by Jim Abrahams (of Airplane!, Top Secret!, & The Naked Gun) and starring Charlie Sheen, Lloyd Bridges, and Valeria Golino, Hot Shots! Part Deux mirrors the plotlines of films like Missing in Action & Rambo II along with a major subplot from Casablanca. The film is tonally all over the place riffing on movies like The Wizard of Oz, Lady and the Tramp, The Godfather, Enter the Dragon, Star Wars, Apocalypse Now, Predator, and many more! It's pretty juvenile but it's nonstop gags and it's a lot of fun!
Dale_A loves these movies just as much as Philip so he was the perfect guest! We had a great time and we hope you enjoy it too!
Shoutouts:
The Plants of Middle Earth: Botany and Sub-Creation
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149: Substantive Cinema | The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance feat. Elliot Coen
When people think of the American western movie, it's usually gunfights and cowboys and bank robbers and romance and, if we're being honest, a pretty rough portrayal of nearly anyone who isn't a white man. They can be fun and exciting but they are often devoid of substance and many times can end up promoting some unhealthy perspectives. The fact that John Ford and John Wayne were two of the most prolific and influential figures in this genre makes their work in The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance that much more interesting. Rather than being a simplistic tale of a strong, quiet man with a gun saving the day, the movie is far murkier than that and actually examines the legacy of that type of story as well as the American myth in general. Jimmy Stewart, John Wayne, Lee Marvin, and Vera Miles star in this subversive and deeply American tale of violence, deception, passion, disillusionment, and hope and whether or not you're a fan of the western genre, there's quite a lot here to consider and discuss. Which is why we are very excited to welcome Elliot Coen from the Boutique Blu-rays YT channel to the show! He's well versed in the genre and brings a wonderful perspective to it. We hope you enjoy and if you do, be sure to share the show with your friends who would appreciate it! **The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance is currently streaming on Prime Video in the US** Previous Substantive Cinema Shows Shoutouts: Kubrick: An Odyssey Universal monster movies Dune & Dune: Part Two
Nightmare(s in a Damaged Brain)
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148: Militarism, Civil Rights & Inspiring the Next Wave of Revolutionaries feat. Nate Powell
Nate is a creator whose work I've followed for almost 15 years and it was an absolute pleasure to sit down and talk with him about his work and the substance behind it. I first encountered his work in Jeff Lemire's acclaimed Vertigo Comics series Sweet Tooth (still need to check out the Netflix adaptation). His style really spoke to me so I went back and read his debut graphic novel, Swallow Me Whole, which won the Eisner Award for Best Original Graphic Novel, and I was in for pretty much everything he made after that.
Most folks know of Nate because of the March trilogy that he did with civil rights advocate and United States Congressman John Lewis and Andrew Aydin. The three graphic novels were massively successful in both critically and commercially but they also have been influential in communicating an important national story and inspiring folks to join the cause and work for a better future. The March books won multiple Eisners (the comic industry equivalent of The Oscars), The Coretta Scott King Award, and made Nate Powell the first cartoonist to win a National Book Award.
We talk about the impact of these books on his life and career as well as the themes of militarism and how war and violence can become culturally pervasive (he shares a great story of getting a positive review from G.I. Joe creator Larry Hama on one of his books dealing with this), how we need to take care to always be pursuing justice and sticking up for folks who can't do it for themselves, as well as being intentional in teaching these values to the next generations.
We hope you enjoy the episode and if you do, be sure to share it with your friends!
Read Martin Luther King and the Montgomery Story
Nate's new books: Buy Fall Through
Pre-Order Lies My Teacher Told Me Shoutouts: X-Men comics
Half American by Matthew Delmont
Alpine Sequences (OK Ikumi album)
Love on the Spectrum (TV series)
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147: TTU w/Trevor Akin | “Biblical” Tagline, Masculinity Crisis & Election Year Faithfulness
Topic Toss Up shows are not really possibly with our current hosting situation as Philip is not terribly keen to record a solo monologue on various topics but we are excited to welcome Trevor back and jump in! Topics covered include: the "Biblical" in our podcast slogan "Biblical. Thoughtful. Human." What do we mean when we say it and do we want to continue using it? What are folks talking about when they say there is a "masculinity crisis" in Western culture and how can we think about it and talk about it in a truthful and fair way? Finally, what is important when seeking to live faithfully in an extremely contentious election year? It was fun to bring this format back and if you would like to hear more of these in the future, email us a voice note or send us a message at TheSubstancePod@gmail.com with your topic suggestions! Shoutouts: Trevor- Paid in Full (Eric B. & Rakim) & We Go Again (Enny EP) Philip- So Late in the Day by Claire Keegan & Fargo season 5 Follow Us: Instagram Twitter Facebook YouTube Channel Share Your Questions/Suggestions/Feedback With Us: Email: thesubstancepod@gmail.com DM on Instagram Support Us: Support the show with an individual donation on CashApp to $TheSubstancePod or become a monthly Patreon supporter at patreon.com/TheSubstancePod
146: Substantive Cinema | Lucky (2017) feat. John Carroll Lynch
Here at The Substance we love engaging with thoughtful art and artists as they are able to get at truth in a way other mediums just are not capable, and among the various forms of art, movies are probably our favorite. That is why we are so delighted to share this exciting first with you all: on this episode we have the pleasure of being joined by a well established actor who recently made his directorial debut, John Carroll Lynch!
John's career as an actor spans over three decades and he has worked with some incredible directors in that time. Folks like Martin Scorsese (right off the bat we get a GREAT Shutter Island story), David Fincher, Joel and Ethan Coen, Clint Eastwood, John Woo, Pablo Larraín, Albert Brooks, Karyn Kusama, Tony Scott, and even Tom Hanks on HBO's From the Earth to the Moon. And a few years ago, he took all those experiences and channeled them into a stunning directorial debut, 2017's Lucky.
Lucky tells the story of a 90-year-old atheist living in small desert town who goes on a bit of a spiritual journey when he is forced to confront his mortality after he experiences a fall. The titular character Lucky is played beautifully by veteran character actor Harry Dean Stanton. It's a role that is infused with so many essential and biographical elements from Harry's own life but it very much stands on its own if you are unfamiliar with his life and career. The town is filled with wonderful actors, many of whom are longtime friends of HDS. People like David Lynch, Ron Livingston, Ed Begley Jr., Tom Skerritt (Harry's co-star in the sci-fi masterpiece and previous SC episode Alien), Barry Shabaka Henley, James Darren, Beth Grant, and more!
The movie is currently streaming on Hoopla so support your local library and check it out! You can also rent it on any major platform. And if you like it even half as much as we do, be sure to tell your friends about it!
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Abby Olcese:
Five Films to Watch During Lent
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145: Art, Commerce, and the Kindness of St. Valentine feat. Ned Bustard
Valentine's Day comes and goes every year and it's easy to either dismiss it as a commercialized event or to get swept up in the sentimentality depending on one's disposition, but we wanted to avoid both extremes and try to focus on true, genuine love. And we do, buuuut take quite an enjoyable detour on to topics of art, commerce, comic books, and more!
We are joined by artist, curator, and author Ned Bustard. Ned is a longtime artist and printmaker who has been on a run the last few years with children's books at IVP. His book on Saint Nicholas launched IVP Kids two years ago and last year he came out with one on Saint Patrick (a favorite in the Marinello house) and now we have Saint Valentine. Tune in to see what may be next if folks continue to buy these books!
We hope you enjoy our conversation and tune in next time for our first Substantive Cinema featuring the director of the film as longtime character actor John Carroll Lynch joins us to talk about his directorial debut Lucky!
Links:
Buy St. Valentine the Kindhearted
Shoutouts:
Dr. Who (Research for an updated edition of Ned's Dr. Who book!)
Percy Jackson (New D+ series)
All Creatures Great and Small (series)
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144: Grief, Lament, and Hope feat. Terra McDaniel
Welcome to The Substance, a variety podcast aimed at being biblical, thoughtful, and human where we seek to engage the culture without the Culture War™. Previous guests include folks like: Johnna Harris (The Bodies Behind the Bus podcast), Daniel Hill (White Awake & White Lies), Esau McCaulley (Reading While Black), Jemar Tisby (The Color of Compromise & How To Fight Racism), and multi-hyphenate artist Propaganda.
Grief is a topic that we have circled on a number of previous episodes and this week it's time to finally dedicate a whole show to it. It is something that many of us have not been properly educated on personally and communally. Hardships are nothing new to the human experience, but with the unique difficulties and risks of the day along with anemic to non-existent grief practices, the modern person is uniquely at risk for the negative effects of unprocessed pain and trauma.
We are joined for this conversation by author and spiritual director Terra McDaniel (shoutout to listener Summer for putting this book on our radar!). Terra has been through her share of grief and it has caused her to lean into it and not only discover and redeem practices of lament for herself, but she has built a ministry in helping equip others to deal with these things as well. The book is simple and extremely practical (and short!) and it's a great resource for a small group or book club type setting with others who are looking to grow in this area.
If you enjoy our conversation, please consider sharing it with a friend and hitting the 5 star button on your podcast app so that it will help others find it as well!
Accompanying Others Through Grief class
Shoutouts:
The Comfort of Crows by Margaret Renkl
Lessons in Chemistry (Apple+ series & book)
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143: Substantive Cinema | The Curse of Cat People feat. Stephanie Stalvey
142: Movies Across the Seriousness Spectrum feat. The Winterstein Bros (Saints & Cinema)
Merry Christmas, y'all! It's been an eventful year and we hope that you all have a nice time of rest over the holiday season.
We're joined here by Tim and Jay Winterstein from the Saints & Cinema podcast. Tim in a Lutheran pastor in Washington State, he writes about movies over at The Jagged Word, and does programming for a couple film festivals in different states. Jay went to film school and is the Senior Programmer for the Newport Beach Film Festival. They love engaging with movies, whether "serious" or just for fun, so they reached out and suggested we talk about how we can engage with and enjoy films that are made all over that spectrum.
Movies discussed: The Boondock Saints, Christmas Vacation, Dumb and Dumber, The Rock, Jackass Forever/Jackass 4.5, The Evil Dead, Calvary, A Hidden Life, Silence, Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind, Spotlight, and After Yang.
Due to scheduling challenges, our Christmas movie episode recording has been delayed but feel free to go back and listen to past year's Christmas shows!
Christmas Movie Episodes:
The Matrix Resurrections (Ep #83)
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141: Interview | Justice, Law, and Love of Neighbor feat. Matt Martens
We are joined by Matt Martens to discuss his new book from Crossway Publishing, Reforming Criminal Justice: A Christian Proposal. Matt is a lawyer who also has degrees in theology and has become passionate about justice and helping folks understand how broken our systems of so called "criminal justice" in America are.
This was a particularly encouraging discussion as many of our previous conversations about justice on the podcast have been with folks who have more or less been kicked out of or made to feel unwelcome in conservative evangelical spaces. Matt positions himself as someone coming to his fellow White conservatives to help inform them of the reality of the situation and we very much hope that his voice will be listened to on this matter!
Buy Reforming Criminal Justice
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140: Bonus | Becoming Alien feat. Sarah Welch-Larson
Things are a little crazy right now and Editor Dave is in between tech setups so rather than take a week off, we wanted to give you all something new to the main feed that most of you probably haven't heard yet.
A few weeks ago we had film critic, podcaster, and author Sarah Welch-Larson on to talk about Ridley Scott's Alien and it was a blast! We also recorded this bonus show for our patrons on her book Becoming Alien that covers the whole franchise. Since our schedule has been hectic and we're a little compromised tech-wise, we thought we'd put this up for everyone to enjoy (and so that we don't blow our streak of never missing a regular episode drop)!
Buy Sarah's book, Becoming Alien
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Seeing and Believing Substack
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139: Interview | Preparing For Christmas feat. Emily Hunter McGowin
Christmastime is right around the corner and we thought about saving this one for another drop or two but we thought it was great conversation and wanted to encourage you all to check out Emily's new book as you prepare for the season.
Emily Hunter McGowin is an author, associate professor of theology at Wheaton College, a priest (she's married to one as well), and canon theologian in the Anglican diocese of Church for the Sake of Others. Her book on Christmas is the latest entry in InterVarsity Press's Fullness of Time series and we couldn't recommend it higher as we approach Christmas.
If you're encouraged, please consider sharing it with a friend and leaving a 5 star review on Apple/Spotify!
Previous Fullness of Time Conversations:
Buy Christmas: The Season of Life and Light
And be sure to check the socials for a giveaway!
Shoutouts:
How The Grinch Stole Christmas
Saint Nicholas and the Nine Gold Coins
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138: Substantive Cinema | Alien (1979) feat. Sarah Welch-Larson
We hope that you all have had a wonderful Spooky Season and wish you all a Happy Halloween this week! After having Filmspotting's Josh Larsen (no relation to our guest today) on in Episode #135 to talk about a faithful approach to horror and then covering the classic 1942 horror film Cat People, we're closing October out with one of the greatest horror and science fiction films of all time, Ridley Scott's Alien.
Alien tells the story of the crew of the Nostromo, a commercial spaceship that comes across a dangerous and virtually unstoppable lifeform that no one in the crew is prepared for. As a piece of science-fiction/horror it's extremely effective but like many great works of art, you can also have a rich experience when you come it to with different lenses. The viewer can look at it as a piece of social commentary about the plight of the working class people being ground up by the machinery of Capitalism, a gender study and what the films portrayal of men and women says about our prejudices, a theologically significant tale about the nature of evil, and more!
Luckily, we have a guest with us who is qualified to explore all of those facets of the film. Sarah Welch-Larson is a Chicago based film critic, longtime podcaster, and author of a book on the while Alien franchise! She's been on our radar for a while and we're so happy to have her on for this one. This is a film and series that she has dedicated a lot of time and attention to and it was a pleasure to talk Alien with her (next week Substance patrons will get a bonus episode where we cover her book and the other 5 films in the series!).
Happy Halloween and remember to share the show with a friend who would dig it!
Buy Sarah's book, Becoming Alien
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137: Interview | Josh Nadeau (Sword & Pencil) on Goodness, Truth, and Beauty
After a few serious health scares and wildfires that caused him and his family to evacuate their home for a while, we are very excited to bring you our first conversation with artist and writer Josh Nadeau! Josh is an artist who runs the Sword and Pencil Instagram account where he regularly shares his drawings, writings, and the things that he's learning as he reads widely through Church History.
At the top of the show we get a brief health update (all things are looking good!) and then get right into the transcendentals: Goodness, Truth, and Beauty, and how they lead to a well lived life. We talk about his journey as an illustrator and a writer, our common experience of getting most of an M.Div. at a reformed seminary, the benefit of engaging with material and arguments outside of one's denominational/traditional background, the benefits of a slow life and exercising purposeful boredom, what makes art valuable, and how he met his wife (also an incredible artist)!
Shoutout to listener Lauren Mulford in Michigan for suggesting Josh as a guest more than a year ago! If you have a guest you think would be great for the show, send us an email or DM and we will see what we can do!
Shoutouts:
The Wall (Pink Floyd)
Early Bob Dylan
Raiders of the Lost Ark & The Last Crusade
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136: Substantive Cinema | Cat People (1942) feat. Stephanie Stalvey
Happy Spooky Season, y'all! On our previous episode with Josh Larsen we teased that we'd likely be covering one of the films we mentioned in our discussion of the theology of horror movies, and it's that time! We're excited to kick things off this October by covering the underseen horror classic Cat People from 1942 (congrats to the folks who guessed it correctly!).
The description on The Criterion Collection's website for the film, in part, reads: "The first of the horror films producer Val Lewton made for RKO Pictures redefined the genre by leaving its most frightening terrors to its audience’s imagination. Simone Simon stars as a Serbian émigré in Manhattan who believes that, because of an ancient curse, any physical intimacy with the man she loves (Kent Smith) will turn her into a feline predator." In its brisk 73-minute runtime, the film is in turn scary, thought-provoking, and incredibly impressive as a artistic work made with such little money and under significant time constraints.
We are also excited to have the perfect guest for this tale of sexual repression & religious fundamentalism, artist and author Stephanie Stalvey. Stephanie writes and draws comics and is most widely known for her graphic memoir "Pure," currently being released on her website with a published collection on its way when it's finished. She writes about her own experiences with fundamentalism and purity culture and a few of her short stories were so thematically similar to the story portrayed in the film (links below), that we had to reach out. The result was a fantastic conversation that we hope encourages and edifies you as much as it did us. And who know, we just may have her back for a Curse of the Cat People bonus for Patreon supporters sometime!
If you enjoy the show, please consider messaging it to a friend who would like it and giving us a rating/review on your platform of choice so others can get in on the conversation as well!
Links:
Fear Not! by Josh Larsen (Filmspotting)
Watch Cat People free on the Internet Archive
Substantive Cinema Letterboxd List
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135: Substantive Stories | Fear Not! feat. Josh Larsen
Horror movies often engage their audience on a primal level as they delve into some of our deepest fears, so it's understandable why so many people are sensitive to them and have reservations concerning them. This appears to be doubly true (or more) of people of faith.
Returning guest Josh Larsen is the perfect person to have join us for this topic! Josh is a Chicago film critic and longtime cohost of the prestigious Filmspotting podcast, an editor & podcast host for Think Christian, as well as the author of Movies Are Prayers and the newly published Fear Not! A Christian Appreciation of Horror Movies.
We discuss the question of why anyone, particularly people of faith, would want to watch horror movies then we dive right in and talk about the unique themes and insights that we can gain from engaging critically with horror subgenres like slashers, monster movies, "sex and death," prophetic horror, and more! His book is an excellent introduction to the topic for the horror newbie as well as a good resource for the horror fan who is interested in thinking more deeply about the genre.
Enjoy and be sure to share the show with a friend!
2022 Spooky Season Substantive Cinema with Josh on George Romero's Night of the Living Dead
Letterboxd list of the films discussed in Fear Not!
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134: Interview | Propaganda on Changing the World through Better Stories
All 4 Terraform EPs are now out in the world, along with a Nautilus Award winning book, so we figured it was time to have Propaganda back on the show!
Prop is a poet, political activist, academic, emcee, podcaster, author, and now a coffee entrepreneur. We're happy to have him back to look back on the whole Terraform project and talk about how it was impacted by Covid, the aspects of it he's most proud of, what he hopes that people get from it and more! It was also great to get to the bottom of his interest in Talladega Nights and what we can learn from Ricky Bobby's radical lack of self-awareness.
If you like this episode, you should share it with a friend! :)
Listen to our previous convo w/Prop!
Get 20% off of your order of Terraform cold brew by using code "SUBPOD" at checkout at https://terraformcoldbrew.com
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133: Substantive Cinema | Affliction feat. Mitchell Beaupre (Letterboxd)
It's Substantive Cinema time again and we're excited to be looking at Affliction, a film that Writer/Director Paul Schrader considers to be a Top 4 project of his (along with Taxi Driver, Mishima, and the topic of our inaugural SC episode, First Reformed).
Affliction tells the story of Wade Whitehouse (Nick Nolte in a heartbreaking and Oscar nominated performance), a man deeply broken by his relationship with his abusive father (James Coburn in a brutal, Oscar winning performance) trying to find meaning in his small-town life amidst a series of trials both real and imagined. It's a wonderful film but beware that it is a pretty hard watch if you decide to watch it before you listen. Affliction is currently streaming for free on Tubi & Amazon Freevee.
And we are also delighted to welcome Senior Letterboxd Editor, Mitchell Beaupre to join us for this conversation! Mitchell is a longtime Schrader fan and apologist and interviewed him just a few months ago during the release of Master Gardener (link below).
This isn't a film that's necessarily "fun," but we hope you enjoy our conversation and appreciate the movie if you check it out!
Mitchell's Paul Schrader interview
Walter Hill Ranked (Paste Magazine)
Shoutouts:
Kingdom of Heaven (Roadshow Edition)
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132: Substantive Stories | The Ballot and the Bible feat. Kaitlyn Schiess
In 2020, a very normal and chill time, Kaitlyn Schiess released her first book, The Liturgy of Politics. It was thoughtful and encouraging call to believers to approach their politics, particularly locally, in a way that actively honors God and prioritizes the well-being of our neighbors. We were privileged to have her on the show and talk about that book and those ideas (link below) and we have been waiting for her follow-up book ever since!
Now, just a couple weeks away from the wide release of her second book, The Ballot and the Bible, we are excited to have her return (along with Trevor Akin making his guest host debut)! We talk about the history of the use of Scripture in American politics, the importance of community in biblical interpretation, the price of critical thinking, and more.
Be sure to tag us and Kaitlyn when you share this on social media (and tell her "Happy Birthday!") and look out for a chance to win a copy of TBatB later this week on Instagram & Twitter!
Kaitlyn's Previous Appearance:
46: Substantive Stories feat. Kaitlyn Schiess | The Liturgy of Politics
Shoutouts:
Self Made by Tara Isabella Burton
Terraform: The Possibility (Propaganda)
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131: Interview | Bishop Emilio Alvarez on Pentecost, Liturgy, and Embracing Unity
Earlier this year, we were joined by Dr. Esau McCaulley (one of our favorite episodes we've done!) to talk about his new little book on Lent which kicked off InterVarsity Press's The Fullness of Time series. Now we're excited to continue on to the second entry, Pentecost, written by Bishop Emilio Alvarez.
In addition to Pentecost, we spend much of our time on a favorite topic of ours here at The Substance- Christian unity. Bishop Alvarez has been engaged in ecumenical ministries for quite a while, so much so that about 10 years ago he was invited to The Vatican to engage with The Pope and other church leaders on the topic of unity (which we absolutely talk about)!
Buy Pentecost
Shoutouts:
Jesus and the Jewish Roots of the Eucharist
The Pastor as Public Theologian
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130: Substantive Cinema | The Grey feat. Slim (Letterboxd & 70mm)
When we had Josh Larsen of Filmspotting on in October to talk The Night of the Living Dead we were not planning to kick off a 5 film series on Criterion Collection titles but here we are. We had some fantastic discussions, with a number of excellent guests, but we wanted to zag a little bit and go in a different direction with this one. Of course Raging Bull and Matewan are substantive films, but what can we glean from Liam Neeson fighting wolves in Alaska?
To help answer this question, we are joined by our old pal Slim (editor and host of The Letterboxd Show & 70mm). Talking points include: Liam Neeson being a Schrader-esque man at a desk, a very impressive plane crash, incredible wolf special effects, memorable & touching death sequences (many of which do not involve wolves at all), the problem of evil/suffering, and a question that may have never been asked before- is The Grey the first and only elevated action movie?
Enjoy the show and be sure to share it with a friend!
Links:
Previous Substantive Cinema shows Joe Carnahan & Liam Neeson Interview
Slim's Podcasts:
Shoutouts:
Patrick Wilson Letterboxd Show ep
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129: Interview | Johnna Harris on Advocating for the Spiritually Abused
Spiritual abuse is something we have talked about many times on the show, and on this episode we are joined by someone who, after enduring this herself, decided to make it her mission to help others who have as well by giving them a platform to tell their stories. Johnna Harris launched The Bodies Behind The Bus podcast at the end of 2021 and for the last year and a half has helped to share survivor stories in order to fight for goodness and truth in the Church.
We talk systems & structures and why broken ones are so difficult to improve, cultivating spiritual communities where it's safe to be our whole selves as we seek to grow, when it's best to take a cue from the prophet Malachi and just shut a church or ministry down, and most importantly why folks struggling to hold on to their faith can have hope.
If our conversation blesses you please consider texting the episode to a friend!
Shoutouts:
Ted Lasso
Colossal (with Anne *Hathaway*)
Follow Johnna:
The Bodies Behind The Bus podcast
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128: The State of The Substance feat. Editor Dave
Hey everyone! We thought it would be nice to take an episode and do a check in with ourselves and you all. Philip and Dave are hard at work putting things together for first few months of our 3.0 era and we wanted to let you all in on the conversation.
They go a little into the history of our first two incarnations but the bulk of the time is spent talking vision and goals for the podcast, our commitment to telling compelling, God-honoring stories, and the growth of local communities that are formed in order to benefit everyone in their proximity.
We have some exciting episodes/guests on the schedule and some that we have already recorded with and we look forward to continuing to encourage curious, thoughtful folks for many more seasons to come!
Shoutouts:
Philip: Smartless: On The Road documentary & podcast
Dave: The Wingfeather Saga & Now, Not Yet by half•alive
Follow Dave
The Gospel According to Batman
Follow @tgatpodcast on TikTok and Instagram
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127: Substantive Cinema | Raging Bull (1980) feat. Abby Olcese
If you're in Kansas City and listening to this when it drops, we hope you can join us for a Substantive Cinema screening of Raging Bull at Screenland Armour at 3:45pm!
How have we gotten this far without covering a Martin Scorsese film?! It's wild. Today we break the Scorsese seal with perhaps his deepest dive into the human condition with his Oscar-winning 1980 masterpiece Raging Bull.
The film is famous for many things, it's Oscar wins (and even more, its losses), the launching of Joe Pesci as a mainstream actor, the incredible black & white cinematography from Michael Chapman, but more than anything else, what Raging Bull does is give viewers the opportunity to fully embody the life of its complex protagonist, Jake "The Raging Bull" LaMotta. Scorsese and DeNiro show us the highest highs and lowest lows of the human experience here and it's hard not to be taken in. LaMotta is not an overly sympathetic character but he is one that is deeply empathetic. You want to see him win and to be a good husband and father and brother. He often makes the wrong choices but in those decisions, audiences get to see the darker sides of themselves reflected and the tragedies that LaMotta brings on himself serve as a warning to where our basest impulses can lead us. It's not an easy watch but it can be an immensely rewarding one when viewed through the lens of our common humanity and seeking for a redemption that we fear we may be unworthy of.
If you end up watching it, we'd love to hear from you! Email us a voice note or send a voicemail and we''ll play it on a future episode!
Follow Philip & Abby on Letterboxd!
Shoutouts:
Are You There God? It's Me, Margaret.
Becoming Alien by Sarah Welch-Larson
Follow Abby:
Think Christian writings that inspired her upcoming book
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126: Substantive Stories | Church Out Here feat. Rural Church Voices crew
We're still here! Our 2.0 era has come to a close but I'm very grateful to bring you all the next episode without interruptions!
Today I'm joined by the Rural Church Voices team which consists of returning guest Olivia Meade, Will Basham, and Jason Cook. All three of them have released books individually (check out Ep #117 to hear us talk Ordinary Faithfulness with Olivia), and now they have gotten together to edit Church Out Here. Church Out Here is a great little resource for both pastors and members of rural churches who are looking to be faithful to God and to one another. In addition to our three guests, contributors include Christian Crouch, Sam Byers, Jim Drake, Michael Meadows, Ricky Love, Chris Priestly, Justin Honaker, Danny Rumple, and Seth Polk.
Whether you find yourself in a big city or a small town, we hope you are encouraged!
Shoutouts:
Will- Pastoring Small Towns by Ronnie Martin & Donnie Griggs
Olivia- The Thursday Murder Club books
Jason- Holy Luck by Eugene Peterson
Follow Rural Church Voices
Buy Church Out Here
Buy Rural Mission
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125: Farewell to Trevor and Vincent!
It's the end of an era (but not the end of the podcast)! We all loved being a part of The Substance 2.0 and are extremely grateful for everything we were able to accomplish in it. From talking with authors, artists, and public figures that we admire, to watching and reading things together that stretch and challenge us, but most of all we are to happy to have played a small role in encouraging folks to think and live well.
Thank you for listening and engaging with us over the last 3 years. You have been a huge encouragement to us as well and we look forward to seeing what God does with the show going forward!
We hope you enjoy this look back at 125+ episodes (with our special releases) and feel free to pray for Philip as he tries to figure out how to keep the show on track and edited properly as the show moves forward!
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124: Substantive Cinema | Badlands (1973) feat. Brett McCracken
Happy Easter, everyone! We hope you have had a refreshing Lenten season and that your Easter celebrations today were encouraging and soul-stirring.
On this episode we welcome back longtime friend of the show, Brett McCracken (who was our first guest), back for his fifth appearance on The Substance. Brett is a writer, a film critic of 15+ years, and he's currently a Senior Editor at The Gospel Coalition where he covers culture and the arts. Previously, we've looked at three other Malick films (links below) and one that was very much Malick adjacent (Minari, also below).
This time, we're going back to the beginning. 50 years ago, Terrence Malick's Badlands debuted at the New York Film Festival where it was the star of the show, even overshadowing Martin Scorsese's Mean Streets in the eyes of many. Badlands is an impressionistic reimagining of the Charles Starkweather story. It's one forgotten to many now, or mainly known because of this film, but to the generation of filmgoers in the early 70s, this was a chilling and familiar story that was deeply tied into American culture.
Badlands is not currently on any of the subscription streaming services but it's available to rent or purchase on several platforms. It is also available to purchase from The Criterion Collection and is likely at many of your local libraries! :)
If you enjoy the show, consider leaving a rating & review on iTunes or Spotify and sharing with a friend!
Links
Shoutouts:
Trevor: Death Below (August Burns Red)
Philip: Columbus (Streaming free on Kanopy if your library supports the service) https://www.kanopy.com
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123: TTU | "He Gets Us" Super Bowl Commercials & Theology of Discipleship
It's topic toss up time again, and Trevor & Philip are back with one topic suggested by an audience member and one of their own!
The Super Bowl was a great time this year. It was great to see the Chiefs win again, especially so due to a bet with the TGAT podcast. One of the "hot topics" that folks were talking about in the aftermath was the commercials that ran a few times during the game...for Jesus? The "He Gets Us" ads got a wide variety of responses and since a listener here in KC asked, that's up first!
Secondly, a topic that has come up tangentially before but one not discussed specifically, it's time to talk about a theology & practice of discipleship. What is the goal of discipleship? How do we pursue it and practice it with folks who are seeking guidance from us? How do we determine whether or not we are engaging in it successfully? Etc.
It's always fun to do these and if you have anything you'd like us to cover in future TTUs, shoot us a message (info below)!
If you enjoy the show, consider leaving a rating & review on iTunes or Spotify and sharing with a friend!
Links
The Gospel According To... Podcast (Philip was a guest on V1 Ep 11)
Ep #7 TTU Tract Carpet Bombing
Ep #46 Kaitlyn Schiess (The Liturgy of Politics)
Shoutouts:
Philip: After Yang
Trevor: City Nerd YT Channel
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122: Reflects | Your "Apolitical" Church is Political
"Politics" is something that many people like to shy away from engaging directly in their public platforms and personas, and some elect to abstain from even discussing it with their friends and family. It's also something that churches often like to refrain from addressing in their preaching and ministries. Yet, it's in inescapable reality of living in a time and place. Furthermore, it's something that churches are necessarily affecting.
In White Evangelical American churches there is a reliable partisan voting block (94% of that demographic votes for 1 party), many receive pressure to talk about hot button culture war issues like CRT, abortion, books in schools etc., often a church's library is stocked with one-sided views on cultural issues, and it is a common view among a congregation and leadership that one of the two major American parties is immoral, or markedly more immoral than the other. This is politically forming whether pastors/leaders like to think of themselves as a "political church" or not.
Wherever you locate yourself in this discussion, we hope it's edifying to you and would love to hear your feedback!
Shoutouts:
Trevor: MLS Season Pass
Philip:
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121: Substantive Stories | How We Relate feat. Jesse Eubanks
It's always fun to have a returning guest back with us and today we are pleased to welcome friend of the show Jesse Eubanks back for his fourth full episode with us!
Jesse is the Founder & Executive Director of Love Thy Neighborhood, host of the Love Thy Neighborhood & The EnneaCast podcasts, and now he's the author of How We Relate: Understanding God, Yourself, and Others through the Enneagram ( pub. Zondervan).
Since we've already done an episode on the enneagram itself (also with Jesse!), we didn't spend much time on going deep into it here, instead we focused on Jesse's approach in the book of using it as a tool to better understand God and humanity. Listeners may have recently seen or heard artist/author/speaker/etc. Jackie Hill Perry speak out strongly against the enneagram (2 weeks before the book's release). Jesse opens up about what that was like and some of the effects it has had honestly and humbly. He will also be following up on her statements specifically on a future episode of Truth Over Tribe.
We hope you enjoy our discussion with Jesse! If you do, be sure to share with a friend and on social media and please consider joining us as a monthly or one off supporter.
Previous Episodes:
Ep 17 Reflects: Social Justice (an episode that was in our Top 10 for years!)
Ep 48 Reflects: Enneagram Triads & Types
Ep 50 Vincent's Enneagram Type Reveal
Links:
Buy the book & give it a 5 star review
Shoutouts:
The Jesus I Never Knew by Philip Yancey
Bart Campolo & Philip Yancey conversation
Yancey books
The Midnight (band)
Sir Sly (band)
Flor (band)
Nightly (band)
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120: Interview | Dr. Esau McCaulley on Lent, MLK, and Communal Refreshment
It is such a pleasure to share our conversation with Dr. Esau McCaulley with you all this week! Reading While Black was a huge book for us and we have been trying to get him on the show for a little over two years so this was a real joy for us and we hope it is for you too.
Dr. McCaulley is currently a Theologian in residence at Progressive Baptist Church in Chicago, a contributing opinion writer for the New York Times whose work has also appeared in The Atlantic, Washington Post, and Christianity Today, he is also the author of four previous books which have won numerous awards, with more books on the way!
We talk about the resurgence of the Liturgical Calendar in the broader American religious context, the new Fulness of Time series on it from IVP of which Esau's new book Lent kicks off, the biblical imperatives to pursue justice, MLK, the benefits of finding and committing to a refreshing local assembly of believers, and more.
Enjoy the show, grab some of his books, and share with a friend!
Use code: "SUBPOD" at checkout on IVP's website for 30% off + free shipping on all of Esau's books that we talked about on this episode. Sale is running for the next month (2/12 - 3/12).
Josey Johnson's Hair and the Holy Spirit
Links:
Shoutouts:
Restoration & Church Clothes 4 from Lecrae
The Rookie (show)
The Great British Baking Show
L.A. Lakers
North American Slave Narratives
African American Readings of Paul (Primo bibliography)
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119: TTU | Avatar 2 Reactions, Nepo Babies, and the Reyna Incident
On this episode of "The Substance," Trevor and Philip dive into the highly anticipated and box office-breaking (already the 4th highest grossing film of all time!) sequel to James Cameron's blockbuster hit Avatar, "Avatar 2: The Way of Water." We discuss the advancements in technology and filmmaking as well as the deeply human themes that have made it so resonant with audiences around the world.
Next, the conversation shifts to the topic of nepotism in Hollywood and sports. The hosts touch on some recent headline events in US Soccer and how it relates to the larger conversation of "nepo babies" in the entertainment industry. They offer insights both on the ways in which nepotism can be detrimental to diversity and representation, how in many ways it's an unavoidable reality, and how it can be addressed in the future.
If you have a topic/guest suggestion for a future show send us a DM, email, or leave us a voicemail and if you like the podcast, share it with a friend!
Links: https://www.vulture.com/article/what-is-a-nepotism-baby.html
Shoutouts:
Philip: The Banshees of Inisherin (Currently streaming on HBO Max)
Trevor: Alamo Drafthouse
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118: Substantive Cinema | Matewan (1987)
117: Substantive Stories | Ordinary Faithfulness feat. Olivia Meade
Happy New Year, everyone! We hope you all had a nice holiday season and that you had, or are planning to make, some time set aside for reflecting on what you went through in 2022 and to plan for what you would like to focus on in 2023.
It's been a while since we have had back to back episodes in the same format (if you're new to The Substance, we're a variety show with 4 formats that we try to have a decently even mix of), but the Substantive Cinema episode that we'll be dropping on the 15th, which has an unintentional connection with this one, seemed like an odd choice for a New Year's Day release. But we love good books and you love good books so we're excited to share this one with you!
Olivia Meade is a wife, mother, church leader, and in May of 2022 she released her first book, Ordinary Faithfulness: How Your Ordinary Life Reflects an Extraordinary God. It was published by Rural Church Voices, a "small collaboration of leaders who care deeply for the rural church and long to provide voices of support through writing, speaking, and practical training." We love the model of people writing to edify The Church rather than trying to top bestseller lists or build a brand. Olivia cares about building up the regular women and men who fill our churches and to encourage them in their day to day lives. We love this and hope you are encouraged too!
Reminder that our IVP Holiday Sale is still going through 1/15 and that you can get 30% off + free shipping on InterVarsity Press titles from folks like Jasmine Holmes, Esau McCaulley, Josh Larsen, Kaitlyn Schiess, Alan Noble, Trevin Wax, and more!
If you enjoy the show, consider leaving a rating & review on iTunes or Spotify and sharing with a friend!
Shoutouts:
Puzzles with 4 y/o
Follow Olivia:
New book coming out 2023!
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116: Substantive Stories | Making Room in Advent feat. Bette Dickinson
Happy Holidays, Substance fam! We hope you are all enjoying the holiday season and carving out time for joy and contemplation along with all the festivities that go along with it. For our last show of 2022 we wanted to take an episode and devote it to the Advent & Christmas season and to do so, we invited a guest! Bette Dickinson is an artist and author from Traverse City, Michigan and she just released a beautiful new Advent devotional from InterVarsity Press, "Making Room in Advent: 25 Devotions For a Season of Wonder."
The book begins each day's reading with a painting to stop and reflect on and invite the reader to engage in visio divina (Latin: divine seeing). We talk with Bette about her art and how engaging with it can help us in ways that a merely textual devotional may not, how the incarnation spotlights the lowly & underrepresented, the joys of slowing down during the holiday season, and more!
We hope you have had a wonderful year and we look forward to being back in your feed on New Year's Day. Merry Christmas!
Links/Resources:
Text "Justice" to 33777
Shoutouts:
The Firekeeper's Daughter by Angeline Boulley
Celtic Benediction by J. Philip Newell
Honest Advent by Scott Erickson
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115: Reflects | National(ist) Conservatism
Since our first episode, we've been focusing on being faithful in the political sphere without becoming partisan or falling into political idolatry. It's something we have come back to many times and it's where we find ourselves again at #115. Recently, National Conservatism had one of their national conferences in Miami and more than a few aspects of it were troublesome and alarming. From pastors sharing the stage with brazenly dishonest and power hungry politicians, to folks in high standing at one of the world's most influential seminaries spouting literal KKK talking points, to the baptizing of people and ideas that are plainly opposed to God's character merely because of political identity, and more.
If you watched or read any of the speeches or read the statement, we'd love to hear from you! Send us a voicemail or an email with your thoughts and you just might make it on to a future show!
Shoutouts:
Trevor: World Cup Soccer
Philip: The Hell We Create by Fit For a King
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Bonus! Noirvember SC | Double Indemnity feat. Kevin McLenithan
Happy Noirvember, Substance fam! We've got a special bonus Substantive Cinema episode for you all here and it's another classic (that happens to also be in the Criterion Collection). Double Indemnity is widely considered the first "real" noir film made in the studio system. It's also a stark cinematic portrayal of the principle in Proverbs 1:10-18.
Double Indemnity tells the story of an insurance salesman who is lured into a "perfect murder" by the wife of one of his wealthy policy holders. It's not a spoiler to say that things do not go according to plan but the way that the film unfolds, particularly the insurance agent's relationship with his friend and would be mentor (played by the incredible Edward G. Robinson).
We also are joined by a guest! For this one we reached out to film critic, Seeing And Believing (a Christ and Pop Culture podcast) host, and noir aficionado, Kevin McLenithan. Kevin was a pleasure to have on and had some great recommendations for listeners looking to go deeper down the noir rabbit hole.
If you enjoy our conversation, we'd love it if you shared it with a friend! And if you listen the first week this is out, good luck in our first podcast only giveaway!
Shoutouts:
Liberation Day by George Saunders
Becoming Alien by Sarah Welch-Larson
Noir Recommendations:
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114: TTU | Family Worship & Listener Q on Fundamentalism
Vincent was off on a tropical vacation when we recorded this, so it's The Substance 1.0 team on this Topic Toss Up! This time around we're considering "family worship" and taking a listener question about Fundamentalism.
All of our lives are worship and much of family life is discipleship but is there something more specific and structured that we should all be striving for? Fundamentalism has a lot of connotations so how do the social, moral, and theological strains relate to one another? Join us as we discuss these things and be sure to chime in by sending us a voicemail, email, or messaging us on the socials.
Have a great week and we'll be back in your feed next week with a special Noirvember Substantive Cinema episode on the classic film, Double Indemnity.
Phil Vischer video "What is an Evangelical?"
Shoutouts:
ESPN 30 For 30 podcast, The Sterling Affairs season 5
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113: Substantive Stories | From Isolation to Community feat. Myles Werntz
112: Substantive Cinema | Night of the Living Dead (1968) feat. Josh Larsen
It's October 2022 and Spooky Season is upon us once again! Horror films consistently deal with substantive themes but it can be easy to overlook them if it's not a genre one naturally gravitates to. This year we are excited to visit a classic film that is responsible for the modern conception of the zombie, George Romero's The Night of the Living Dead (1968).
We are also happy to be joined by author and Filmspotting & Think Christian podcast host, Josh Larsen. Josh is a longtime horror lover and has an upcoming book next year about Christian reflections on horror movies. We talk horror film history and the contributions of George Romero, how the low budget nature of the film's production helped it gain classic status, the zombie as collective society, and how the inescapable realities of race in America gave NOTLD even more resonance when they cast Duane Jones in the lead as Ben.
Enjoy and be sure to hit us up with your feedback!
Past Substantive Cinema Horror Episodes:
The Thing (feat. Mike White of The Projection Booth podcast)
Get Out (feat. pastor & Off The Pulpit host Eugene Park)
Shoutouts:
The Battle For Middle Earth by Rutledge
Think Christian Barbarian/Halloween (1978) episode coming soon (link below!)
Follow Josh:
Pre-order Fear Not! sign up for updates
Movies Are Prayers https://www.ivpress.com/movies-are-prayers & amzn.to/2suypwe
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111: Reflects | Sexual Ethics
There's a lot we want to avoid as we wade into the topic of sexual ethics but we figured that it was probably time to start. It's an important and inescapable part of living in society, especially if we are seeking to live in a manner that pleases God and honors our fellow man. Bear with us but please feel free to reach out with any suggestions or feedback after you've listened!
Shoutouts:
Philip: The Patient (TV Show)
Vince: Gwen Bunn "Waste Time"
Trevor: After School Radio- Death Cab For Cutie & Transatlatacism
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110: TTU | Matt Chandler Steps Back, Augmented Reality, & Manufactured Spirituality
We're back tossing it up with some new topics! This episode we talk about Matt Chandler's announcement about stepping back from ministry because of a (allegedly non-sexual, non-romantic) relationship with a woman and what that says about the state of many modern American churches. We also look toward the future and how augmented reality may affect how we relate with one another and even how we do spiritual formation. Finally, we look at how churches do and should function in regards to their affects on individuals and communities.
If you have any thoughts on these topics or suggestions for future topics or guests, send us an email or a voicemail!
Shoutouts:
Philip: Salty by Alissa Wilkinson
Vince: "Waste Time" by Gwen Bunn
Trevor: The Bible Memory App
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109: Substance Reflects | Homelessness feat. Kevin M. Nye
Homelessness is a serious and complex problem around the world and at home. It's also a problem that we have some powerful solutions available to us. This week we reflect on the topic with seminary graduate, homelessness advocate, and recently published author Kevin M. Nye. His new book Grace Can Lead Us Home: A Christian Call To End Homelessness is now available to buy and read and the final sentence in it's Amazon description is: "This thorough and intimate book shows us that from the margins, Jesus has something to teach us all about grace--something that could change the landscape of homelessness entirely if we're ready to hear it."
We hope this is eye-opening, challenging, and ultimately encouraging as we all seek to think and live more like Christ in how we see and love those around us who are experiencing difficulties!
Shoutous:
Kevin: Spider-Man & Daredevil comics, Stranger Things & Only Murders in the Building
Trevor: "Ghosts" by August Burns Red
Philip: Goodnight Paradise by Joshua Dysart & Alberto Ponticelli (comic/graphic novel)
Vince: "Been Calling" Maleek Berry
Follow Kevin:
Purchase Grace Can Lead Us Home
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108: Substantive Cinema | Everything Everywhere All at Once (2022) feat. Jason & Hannah Chao
107: TTU | Thankfulness, Embracing "Christian Nationalism," & Prov 26:4-5 on Social Media
If you have any suggestions for future topics, be sure to send us an email or voicemail!
Shoutouts:
Philip: Wise Blood film
Trevor: Reparations book
Vince: Sho Baraka "All I Want Freestyle"
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106: Reflects | Roe v Wade Overturned
Overturning the United States Supreme Court ruling on Roe v. Wade has been something that anti-abortion folks have had their sights set on for years and recently, they seem to have got their way. On a previous Reflects show on abortion, we discussed aspects of why this was a goal and some potential issues with it but now it's a reality and the conversation is a lot more sobering.
We know that this issue is complex and none of us are legal experts (or women) but we hope that we're able to start the part of this conversation in a post-Roe world in a biblical, thoughtful, and human manner and we'd love for you to join us! Send us an email, DM, voicemail and join the discussion.
Shoutouts:
Vince: Justin Timberlake "Say Something" single
Philip: The Bear (TV Show)
Trevor: Hot Ones Interviews: Gordon Ramsey & Tyra Banks
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Share Your Questions/Suggestions/Feedback With Us:
Email: thesubstancepod@gmail.com
Phone: 913-703-3883
Support Us:
Support the show with an individual donation on CashApp to $TheSubstancePod or become a monthly supporter at the Anchor link below!