After the JAG Corps: Navigating Your Career Progression
By Tom Welsh
After the JAG Corps: Navigating Your Career ProgressionJan 27, 2024
122. Catharine Parnell: From the Army to Satellite Lasers
121. Tania Martin and the Importance of Patience
When I spoke to Tania Martin on Wednesday via Zoom, it was with a retired JAG who has transitioned to a part-time job after working full-time for a period of time after leaving the Corps. While emphasizing she works with great people with a good company, Tania was candid about still seeking something that provides her with the same level of fulfillment that serving in the Army JAG Corps for 30 years did. Most importantly, however, was her emphasis on having patience with the career progression process after leaving the military. Tania's LinkedIn profile can be found at https://www.linkedin.com/in/tania-martin-5075a79/
120. Talking DOD OGC, SES, and Job Seeking with Vida Antolin-Jenkins!
This morning, I catch up with my former shipmate, retired Navy captain judge advocate. In a wide-ranging conversation, Vida talks about her career progression from the Navy to the DoD Office of General Counsel and the Senior Executive Service as well as observations and experiences with job-seeking generally. Vida's LI profile can be accessed here.
119. Brendan Burke's Unplanned Career Progression Journey
This podcast is focused on helping judge advocates plan their career pivot from serving in uniform to a career after the military. An underlying them is the need to plan. This week, however, is focused on carpe diem. As you will hear, Brendan Burke thought he would still be on active duty right now, but on a whim, he applied for a job that was of interest to him and the rest is history. The URL for his LI profile is https://www.linkedin.com/in/hbrendanburke/
118. Scotch Perdue Talks Corporate Law: Getting There, Being There, and Helping Others
In this episode, Scotch Perdue, an attorney with the Fluor Corporation, opens up about the challenges and roadblocks he experienced in making the move to the corporate world, but also those who were incredibly helpful, and his efforts to strengthen the military law network inside the Association of Corporate Counsel with the establishment of a Military Veterans Affinity Group within the National Capital Region Chapter. The URL for Scotch's LinkedIn profile is https://www.linkedin.com/in/scotch-perdue/
117. Trying to Keep Up with Dave Grogan: Officer, Gentleman, Attorney, Author, Podcaster
116. Drew Henderson: The Network Strikes Again!
115. Sue Stewart: Home in San Francisco
In this episode, Sue Stewart shares her post-career journey that took her from her adopted home of San Diego, CA, up the coast to San Francisco, to serve as environmental counsel at Chevron before moving over to the biotechnology company Genentech. This journey has all the subplots that you have come to love in this podcast: great timing, the power of the network, and good things happening to good people. Sue's LinkedIn profile is available at https://www.linkedin.com/in/scstewart/.
114. Alex Loh, Citizen Airman, Bridging Military Service and the Tech World
In this conversation, Alex Loh shares his journey from the civilian world straight into the Air Force Reserve. So, whereas I have had several guests who were former military officers who transitioned from active duty to a civilian attorney career, and had their perspective of what skills JAGs bring with them, Alex's perspective has been shaped by working in both worlds. Alex's LinkedIn bio can be found at https://www.linkedin.com/in/lohalex/
113. Josh Traeger: Smalltown Lawyer with a Worldwide Practice
In this episode, I talk to U.S. Air Force veteran Josh Traeger who left active duty four years ago and moved to Traverse City, Michigan, where he opened his own law practice, True North Legal Group, which includes a division, The Military Defense Firm, dedicated to representing service members worldwide. In this wide-ranging conversation, we talk about what motivated him to leave the active component, the ups and downs of opening up a practice, and the ability to maintain a worldwide practice in today's technologically-advanced world. Josh's LinkedIn profile can be found at https://www.linkedin.com/in/josh-traeger-349ab01a5/
112. Genevieve Loutinsky: From Honor Courage, Commitment to Fidelity, Bravery, Integrity
In this episode, Genevieve Loutinsky shares how she took the experiences gained during almost 10 years in the Navy to become a member of the Operational Technology Law Unit with the Federal Bureau of Investigation. Genevieve's LinkedIn profile is located at https://www.linkedin.com/in/genevieve-l-064076192/
111. Bob Liu's Journey into the Tech World
In today's episode, I talk to Bob Liu who, thanks to a Skillbridge opportunity, got some exposure in working legal issues associated with a tech start-up and has ended up working at GitHub, a software development company. However, as you will hear, it was not necessarily an easy journey. In Fact, Bob was out of work for several months before landing his current gig, driving home once again that one needs to do his or her homework, endure disappointments, but remain optimistic, which Bob did. Bob's profile can be found at https://www.linkedin.com/in/bobertliu/
110. Comparing Career Progression Notes With Amanda Myers
In today's episode, Amanda Myers and I talk about our perspective journeys from the Navy JAG Corps to the U. S. Department of Veterans Affairs and U.S. Department of Commerce, respectively. Amanda's LinkedIn Profile can be accessed here.
109. From Special Courts-Martial to the U.S. Court of Appeals: The Honorable Rich Federico
In this episode, I sit down with the Honorable (and a captain in the Navy Reserve) Rich Federico whose nomination to become a judge for the US Court of Appeals for the Tenth Circuit was confirmed by the U.S. Senate in December 2023. One of the few officers who every assignment on active duty and then in the Reserve Component was a litigation assignment, Judge Federico left active duty in 2015 and then served as a Federal public defender in Oregon and then in Kansas before becoming a Federal judge. A truly remarkable accomplishment for a true officer and a gentleman. Judge Federico's profile can be accessed here.
108. Alex Straub's Journey From the National Guard to State Government
This episode is about opportunity, timing, initiative, and a truly good fit. The tail end of Alex's career in the State of Washington's National Guard saw him working very closely with the Attorney General's office on some unique issues, including a pandemic, civil disturbances, and civil disobedience with the establishment of a purported autonomous zone in Seattle. So, with established relationships and some familiarity with state laws, governance, and how to get things done, as well as a desire to stay local, what do you do when they want to hire now but you will not retire until months later? Skillbridge, of course!
Alex's LinkedIn profile is at https://www.linkedin.com/in/alex-m-straub/.
107. James McGehee: Air Force Veteran and Employment Law Attorney
This week, I talk to James McGhee, who was a practicing attorney with plans to become a U.S. Attorney, decided to join the U.S. Air Force after a fateful hike with his brother up The Incline at Pike's Peak in Colorado Springs. James went onto serve just over four and one-half years before moving onto his current role as an employment and labor law attorney in Dallas, Texas. James's LinkedIn profile is available at https://www.linkedin.com/in/james-mcgehee/.
106. Mark Opachan: Answering When Opportunity Knocks
105. Brent Thompson's Geography-Driven Career Progression Journey
Post-military career progression is driven by a number of factors including geography, an individual member's financial requirements, area of expertise, and desires. In this instance, we hear from Brent Thompson whose career progression was driven predominantly by location, location, location. In this instance, Brent and his wife had purchased a house in a rural part of California. Yet, via informational interviews, networking, and the rise of remote working due to the pandemic, he landed a job with a firm out of Sacramento, California. Brent's LinkedIn profile is available at https://www.linkedin.com/in/brent-thompson/
104. Closing out 2023 with Holly Taylor, Executive Virtual Assistant and Leadership Coach
103. "Believe in Yourself" - Words of Wisdom from George Mathew
Yesterday, I had the opportunity to sit down with George Mathew, who talked about his post-military career progression, going from serving in the U.S. Air Force active component to Immigration and Customs Enforcement to USAID, and now to Lockheed Martin. George credits his experiences in the Air Force, including the great people for whom and with whom he worked, for his success. He also offers some great advice to transitioning JAGs as they try to determine what comes next. George's profile can be found at https://www.linkedin.com/in/george-m-300a391ba/
102. Career Progression for a True Lifer: Colonel (Ret.) Luis O. Rodriguez
Today, we hear from Luis Rodriguez who spent 43 years as a U.S. Army soldier until earlier this year. Luis now serves as an Associate Deputy General Counsel with the Army. In this conversation, we hear again about the importance of networking, networking, networking, other issues associated with entering Government Service, and even the mundane, but important administrative matters such as navigating post-military healthcare coverage. Luis's LinkedIn profile is available at https://www.linkedin.com/in/luis-o-rodriguez-14250b234/
101. Chad Olcott Walks Away from the Law and Towards His Passion
What do you get when you take a JAG who has always loved the outdoors, returns to Maine after six years on active duty, including time in Europe, and give him a window at his new law firm overlooking the water in Portland, and combine that with a tolerance for risk? The philosophical answer is never working a day in one's life. In this podcast, we hear from Chad Olcott, who serves as the director for Apogee Adventures (www.apogeeadventures.com) and founder, Parallel Adventures (parallel-adventures.com).
100. Ian Wexler: Director, Institute for Security Governance
Although our paths did not cross too many times while serving in the Navy JAG Corps, Ian Wexler and I had many common career experiences, including career challenges and duty stations. Ian's last assignment on active duty was as Director, Institute for International Legal Studies in Newport, RI. Following his retirement this past fall, Ian became Director, Institute for Security Governance in Monterey, CA.
DISCLAIMER: THE OPINIONS EXPRESSED BY IAN WEXLER IN THIS PODCAST ARE HIS PERSONAL VIEWS AND NOT THOSE OF THE INSTITUTE FOR SECURITY GOVERNANCE, THE DEFENSE SECURITY COOPERATION UNIVERSITY, THE DEFENSE SECURITY AGENCY, OR THE DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE.
Ian's biography can be found HERE while his LinkedIn profile can be accessed HERE.
99. Zach Prager's Journey from the Navy to the Department of the Commerce
98. The Honorable Mark Blask Talks Service and Relationships
97. Steve Coopersmith: From Running a VITA Center to Law Firm Founder and Business Leader
In his brief three year stint in the Army, Steve Coopersmith wore many hats, including as a legal assistance attorney, SJA and trial counsel. However, he credits being thrust into the position of running a Voluntary Income Tax Assistance Center as a formative experience that set him on a course that led to becoming a business dispute lawyer and running his own law firm. Steve's LinkedIn profile can be viewed at https://www.linkedin.com/in/steven-coopersmith-5523a01/
96. Deep Thoughts With Scott Johnson
This morning, we hear from Scott Johnson, who retired from the Navy in 2017, and is now on his third job with his current role working for a private equity firm, which is also his longest stint. Scott is someone with whom I had many conversations about career progression long before the concept of a podcast came to mind and he has some well-developed thoughts on the chasm between an individual's military service and trying to break into the civilian workspace. Scott's LI profile is at https://www.linkedin.com/in/scottgjohnsonattorney/
95. Field of Dreams: A Conversation with "Johnny Baseball" Nilsen
94. Dave Coogan: From the Halls of Montezuma to Private Practice in Pittsburgh
This week, Dave Coogan takes us through his journey from serving as a judge advocate to private practice in the City of Champions, Pittsburgh, PA. HE talks about the importance of having a five-year plan, of being deliberate in the job search, the importance of gathering intel about a firm's culture, and the value of the JAG Corps network. Dave's LI profile is at https://www.linkedin.com/in/davecoogan/.
93. Lisa Lang: From Boot Camp to University General Counsel
This week, I change course and talk to Lisa Lang, who enlisted in the Army after college, spent about 8 years on active duty, and then went to law school. Although not a former JAG, her experiences as an enlisted soldier and as a lawyer in private practice, government, and now education, may be beneficial to transitioning judge advocates. Lisa's LinkedIn profile is at https://www.linkedin.com/in/lawyerlisalang/
92. Will Fischbach: Former Army JAG Who Cannot Say No
91. Ben Grimes: Focused on Helping Attorneys and Firms Grow
As Ben Grimes will tell you, he never set out to be an attorney, but as a Blackhawk pilot who realized that continued service in the Army meant transitioning out of the cockpit to staff duty, decided to become the "staffiest"of all staff officers by becoming a JAG. A self-described "legal ethics geek," Ben then jumped at the opportunity to provide professional ethics advice to attorneys at the Department of Justice, a job which he held for almost seven years. However, realizing that he missed leading, Ben has now become a leadership coach with a focus on helping lawyers and firms break through dysfunction.
90. "I Just Wanted to Be Part of a Team" - Joe Schrantz, VP of Business Development at Dauntless Discovery
My conversation today is with Joe Schrantz who articulates a reason why many of us join the service: to be part of a team. It is a desire that has shaped his entire life, from playing sports as a kid and in college to joining the Marine Corps to his work now as Vice President of Business Development at Dauntless Discovery, an e-discovery firm. Joe's LinkedIn profile is at https://www.linkedin.com/in/joe-schrantz/. To learn more about Dauntless Discovery, visit https://dauntlessdiscovery.com/.
89. Let's Chow: A Veteran-Centric Non-Profit Founded by LCDR Jordan Foley
Today, we hear from LCDR Jordan Foley, an active-duty judge advocate and founder and CEO of Let's Chow, a 501(c)(3) that gives veterans thinking about going into the food truck or brick-and-mortar restaurant business the resources and space to discern whether the food service industry is for them and if so, gives them the funding to launch their business. This podcast is geared toward anyone thinking about starting or entering the non-profit world. Jordan's LinkedIn profile is located at https://www.linkedin.com/in/jordan-j-foley-6b980818b/. To learn about Let's Chow, visit https://www.letschow.org/.
41. Overcoming Adversity: A Conversation with LTC Jay Morse, U.S. Army (Retired).
88. "Be a Benefactor of Luck" with Ritesh Srivastava
In this episode, we hear from Ritesh Srivastava who served in the Navy JAG Corps for six years before moving onto private practice before serving as a trial attorney and now serving as a corporate attorney. Hat tip to my former shipmate, Gopi Nadella, for recommending me to sit down with Ritesh. Ritesh's LinkedIn profile is at https://www.linkedin.com/in/ritesh-sri/
87. Back to School with Alex Whitaker, Retired JAG and University President
In this episode, retired Navy Captain Alex Whitaker tells us how he ended up back at his alma mater in an administration role before eventually becoming the President of King University in Tennessee where he has been for the past 7 years. He also talks about the state of higher education today, its challenges and rewards. A great primer for any JAG (or non-JAG) who may be interested in pursuing a career in higher education when they leave the service. Alex's LinkedIn profile can be found at https://www.linkedin.com/in/alexanderwhitaker4/.
86. Dan D'Alesio: The Dean of the Jacksonville (Retired) JAGs
85. Joanne Neighbors: Soldier, Civil Servant, and VP/In-House Counsel
In 17 years as a lawyer, Joanne Neighbors has done a lot. After serving in the Army JAG Corps for approximately seven and a half years, she then moved onto civil service for about 10 years before breaking into banking world. Join us as Joanne talks about her incredible journey and what she did to get here.
84. The Honorable J. Lee Marsh: From the Silent Service to the Florida Bench
This week, J. Lee Marsh recounts his journey from the United States Naval Academy, where he became enamored with the law, to submarines to the Navy JAG Corps and finally to becoming a judge in Florida. Judge Marsh's profile is at https://www.linkedin.com/in/j-lee-marsh-2991424/.
83. A Sit-Down with Hank Molinengo
82. Matt Dursa, From the Navy to Chief Legal Counsel and Chief Compliance Officer
This week, I catch up with Matt Dursa, Chief Legal Counsel and Chief Compliance Officer with Darley, a Midwest company that provides training and material support to the Department of Defense and first responders. Matt takes us through his career progression from the Navy JAG Corps to working with Customs and Border Protection to Darley. Matt's LinkedIn profile can be found at https://www.linkedin.com/in/matthew-dursa/.
81. Jennifer Green: The Accidental, but Very Contented, Litigator
Jennifer Green had plans to become an in-house counsel somewhere until she accidentally sent her resume to a recruiter and what played out is an incredible account of career progression being like the proverbial box of chocolates. Listen closely as Jennifer talks about the clients she gets to represent as a plaintiff's attorney. You can hear the passion she has for her clients in her voice. Jennifer never envisioned herself here, but this is an example of what can happen when you surrender yourself to the process and interview for a job just to get your recruiter off your back. A must listen. Jennifer's LinkedIn profile can be found at https://www.linkedin.com/in/jennifer-green-63b124214/.
80. Be Humble: Matt Bernstein on the Key Ingredient in a Successful Career Transition
Matt Bernstein, an Army Veteran and Partner at Shook, Hardy & Bacon L.L.P. in Miami, Florida, takes us through his career progression from the Active Component to a civilian practice, which was not his original plan. Matt talks about being humble, which includes a willingness to acknowledge what you do not know going into a new job as well as explaining why starting out at a lower position is neither a commentary on you as an attorney nor a bad thing. Matt's LinkedIn biography can be found at https://www.linkedin.com/in/matthew-bernstein-5340666/ or at his firm's web site, which is .
79. Career Coaching with Jessica Hernandez, Certified Coach, Lawyer, Author & Military Spouse
78. Chris LaCour: Patience with the Process
This week, I talk to Army JAG veteran Chris LaCour whose retirement from the military was a little more abrupt and sooner than he had intended due to medical issues. Stationed in Hawaii at the time, he and his wife executed a plan to relocate to San Antonio, TX, and then find work with Chris attending a Hiring Our Heroes Cohort, through which he landed a non-legal job at USAA before eventually being hired on as a litigation attorney there. Chris's LinkedIn profile is at https://www.linkedin.com/in/chris-lacour-b5886510/.
77. Stephen Dunn: Why JAGs Should Consider Law Firms and the Corporate World
This week, I talk to Stephen Dunn, a JAG in the Army Reserve, who explains why separating and retiring JAGs should consider doing a law firm or entering the corporate world. Unsuccessful in obtaining a commission in the active component, Stephen secured a Reserve commission after becoming a prosecutor in Michigan before moving over to a law firm. Eighteen years later, he talks about juggling both careers and why JAGs make good firm attorneys and in-house counselors. Stephen's LinkedIn profile is HERE.
Podcast notes:
1. A big thank you to the individuals who signed up to be a monthly sponsor on the Spotify for Podcasters web site. As retirement and new career draw closer, my hope is to contract out the editing and production work of the podcast, allowing me to continue the podcast once I start my next career.
2. Speaking of which, I am less than 5 weeks away, but thankfully on the Navy payroll for a little longer.
76. Michael Turner: From Navy JAG to U.S. Diplomat
Michael Turner joined the Navy's JAG Corps in 1999 (Norfolk, Bahrain, Naples) and became a U.S. diplomat in 2004, retiring in April 2023. Serving as a foreign service officer in Indonesia, Colombia, the Secretary of State's Office, Vietnam, Shanghai, and Beijing, his last tour was leading the Department of State's largest overseas communications office (China) where he had served since 2019. As one of the very few, senior-level former officials who has recent, on-the-ground, experience in China, he formed his own consulting firm, Turner Global Solutions LLC, specializing in counter-disinformation and crisis narratives. In this episode, we hear about making a career overseas and how retirement has allowed Michael to focus on personal projects, such as helping dads through his website Raise Strong Girls. Click HERE for Michael's LinkedIn profile.
75. Catching Up with Mike Palmer: The Accidental Contract Instructor
Mike Palmer retired from the Navy JAG Corps in 2018 after 30 years of service with no intention of practicing law again. However, like so many judge advocates who at one time or another have taught as an adjunct somewhere, Mike has continued serving as an adjunct professor and then picked up a job as instructor teaching foreign officers. Mike also talks about the importance of doing those things that everyone plans on doing later in life, like traveling the country, when the opportunity presents itself and while your health is good.
74. Matt Osman's Journey From the Navy JAG Corps to the Bench
In this episode, we learn about Matt Osman's journey from his 6.5 years hardship tours in the Navy from Japan to Rota, Spain, to Charleston, SC, his decision to get out, the mistake he made in looking for that first job getting out of the service, and how he ended up being an elected judge for the past 12+ years. Matt's profile is at https://www.linkedin.com/in/matthewosman/details/experience/.