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Next Stage Radicals

Next Stage Radicals

By Next Stage Radicals
We are the Next Stage Radicals and we are on a mission to make work work better. We live and work in lots of different places, collaborating as a Community of Practice and "Exploring Aloud" together. Our podcast is one of the ways we do this; sharing what we are doing and learning so that you can learn with us.
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Paul Jocelyn #Insurgency-tactics-for-L&D

Next Stage Radicals

Paul Jocelyn #Insurgency-tactics-for-L&D

Next Stage Radicals

Kathy Evans #Funding-Interdependence
This month's radical is Kathy Evans, Chief Executive at Children England, the membership body for children's charities. We explore Kathy's vision of a world where interdependence and collaboration are recognised as the cornerstone of public services; a world beyond markets and citizens-as-consumers, and a world where each child is supported to flourish within what Kathy calls 'the ChildFair State". During her career as a social care practitioner and policy specialist, Kathy has been the Chair of the Standing Committee for Youth Justice, a trustee of the Children’s Rights Alliance for England, a member of the ACMD Hidden Harm group and DCSF Care Matters advisory group. She was a consultant to the Police Foundation and Justice, devising potential alternatives to Youth Courts, to support the Independent Commission on Youth Crime and Anti-Social  Behaviour. Kathy was named Children and Young People's Champion of the Year 2018, by the panel of young people who decide the Children & Young People Now Awards. Kathy is also passionate about being a Humanist Celebrant, performing non-religious weddings and baby namings whenever she is able! You can find out more about Kathy and her work: - by following her on Twitter. - via the Children England website. - in Children England's new strategy paper "Our Mission, Our Direction 2021-2025" And if you are reading this before 11th June 2021, you can also join Kathy for a free EXPLORING ALOUD workshop on the theme of "Funding Interdependence".
April 30, 2021
Laura Seebohm #Changing-Lives-Through-Trauma-Informed-Practices
Laura Seebohm is Executive Director for External Affairs at Changing Lives, a nationwide charity helping people facing challenging times to make positive change - for good. She has over 20 years’ experience in the statutory and voluntary sectors, working as a Probation Officer before joining Changing Lives in 2006. Laura developed particular expertise supporting women with experience of the criminal justice system, sexual exploitation and domestic abuse. With experience of policy at a local and national level, multiple peer research projects, lived experience, inclusion and system change practices, Laura has found herself particularly drawn to the potential of Trauma-Informed Practice as a means to truly changing lives. This approach offers a strengths-based framework, grounded in an understanding of the impact of trauma in peoples lives, and helping them to rebuild a sense of what Laura refers to as 'being, becoming and belonging' in their lives. In this episode I hear all about what led Laura to this approach, what she sees as its potential and what she and her colleagues at Changing Lives are doing to explore it in practice.  Find out more about Laura via: Linked-In @ Twitter @ Changing Lives website @ NB if you are reading this before Friday 14th May 2021 then come and join me and Laura for her EXPLORING ALOUD online workshop. We'll be unpacking more about Trauma-Informed Practice in practice and considering how it can inform the way we all live our lives and support each other, not just those who are facing the most challenging times. More info and registration @
April 1, 2021
J. Kim Wright #Lawyers-As-Peacemakers-And-Changemakers
This month’s radical is J. Kim Wright. Kim is a legal systems entrepreneur - transforming the systems, ideas, approaches, and habits that have underpinned the legal system since… well, forever. Although based in the US, Kim’s work connects cutting-edge lawyers, like-minded professionals, and communities all over the planet. She writes extensively, teaches law, coaches and advises clients, hosts and mobilises action within the integrative law movement and plays a key role as a co-founder of the Conscious Contracts® process. She’s also been know to have a day off! In this episode I sit back and relax as Kim tells me all about her journey through life. It's remarkable, inspiring and a perfect example of what's possible when we grab hold of our place in the world and don't let go. Find out more about Kim: On Linked-In @ On Twitter @ On her personal website @ Or via one of her company websites: @ @ And if you are reading this before 13 April 2021, come and join me and Kim for her EXPLORING ALOUD online workshop where we'll be unpacking how people can connect to what really matters to them, find their purpose and make it happen; “Why not? How ordinary people achieve extraordinary things” with J Kim Wright. More info and registration @
February 28, 2021
Paul Jocelyn #Insurgency-tactics-for-L&D
For 28 years Paul Jocelyn's career was at Tesco. Working in a variety of roles he was part of an ambitious business, relentlessly pursuing change at its growing edge; a shift to online and digital, going international, diversifying into new retail models such as Tesco Local, Tesco Express and Tesco Direct, a shift from groceries to groceries + everything else, and much more besides. In all of this Paul saw how learning and development at the growing edge of organisations needs to shift away from a centralised, standardised curriculum of learning in order to embrace something different, more agile and better adapted to the complex world of the 'next stage' business. Paul now works as a consultant, helping organisations to rethink their approach to learning and development. His work is heavily influenced by his experiences and by the idea that, in order for organisations to compete in complexity, it is necessary for them to shift the learning relationship from something that is ‘done to’ learners to something that is learner led and anchored in the work. You can find our more about Paul and his work via: Linked-In >>> Twitter  >>> His website >>> If you are reading this before March 12th 2021 then you can also join Paul for an Exploring Aloud workshop, where he will be discussing the ideas and issues raised in this podcast. Find out more and register through the link >>> EXPLORING ALOUD: 'Insurgency Tactics for L&D' with Paul Jocelyn 
February 1, 2021
Andy Brogan & Anna Smart #What-Is-The-Role-Of-Moral-Outrage-In-System-Change?
Andy Brogan is founder and convenor of Next Stage Radicals, co-founder of Easier Inc and the Human Learning Systems Collaborative and a member of Society 2045 (a social action group). Based in Herefordshire (UK) Andy's work is all about creating better ways of working and better places to work. At the core of this he believes in the need for a profound shift from conventional models of accountability - which he argues dehumanise people and create systemic irresponsibility - to a fresh emphasis on personal responsibility and agency based in fellowship. Fuelling this shift, Andy proposes that it is necessary to engage with questions about work and the workplace as essentially ethical questions about what role it is legitimate for people to play in each others lives.  Joined by fellow Next Stage Radical Anna Smart (this episode's guest host), this podcast is an exploration of these ideas. It investigates how viewing work through an ethical lens can provoke personal discomfort - even outrage - and how this may be both useful and necessary in order to move the world of work to the next stage. You can find out more about Andy and his work via Twitter @AndyTBrogan, via his LinkedIn profile or via the Easier Inc website. NB If you are tuning into this podcast before 12th February 2021 you can also join Andy for an EXPLORING ALOUD online workshop, where he will be in discussion about the themes raised in this podcast. More details and registration available here.
January 2, 2021
John Lodge & Hesham Abdalla #Escaping-Role-Shaped-Boxes-To-Make-Skills-Count
John  and Hesham are NHS Quality Improvement leads who have worked together to create the platform ‘’, the UK’s first national skill exchange and time-bank for improving health and social care. In their day jobs, John is the Head of Quality Improvement for the London region of NHS England and Improvement, and Hesham is the Quality Improvement lead at Walsall Healthcare NHS Trust, and a Consultant Paediatrician. You can find out more about John and Hesham by: - Joining them on You can join the platform for free and start offering or requesting improvement skills immediately. The video tutorials on their help page can get you started with a profile and navigation of Hexitime: - Following them on Twitter @Hexitime. NB If you are listening to this podcast before 1pm on 12th January 2021 then you can also join John and Hesham for an in depth discussion about their experiences and your opportunities to make the most of your skills, as part of our 'Exploring Aloud' series of webinars. More details via: - EXPLORING ALOUD: Escaping role-shaped boxes to make skills count with John Lodge and Hesham Abdalla.
December 1, 2020
Alex Papworth #How-Nature-Can-Help-Us-Organise-Together-In-Harmony
As a one-time business analyst in one of the world's largest institutions (Lloyds Banking Group), Alex Papworth knows how big business works. He's seen it from the inside. He's also seen where it doesn't always work so well; for the people in it, those affected by it and for the world around it. Sitting at the centre of a £3bn transformation has given him a unique perspective. Understanding the importance of approaching change by looking at the world and his work in changing hearts and minds as a complex system left him with the question: "What is the simplest, quickest and most intuitive way to help people understand the world, their work and themselves as a complex system?" This question has led Alex to consider the interplay between the world of work and the world of nature; drawing him towards the (perhaps radical) conclusion that nature provides the ideal organising principles and the operating model for better ways to work... and that these are more-or-less opposite to the ones that govern most of our normal practice. Spending time in nature and including it in our 'practice' also helps us tap into our intuition, which is a much quicker and simpler way to increase awareness of ourselves and the systems we live in so that we can find a way forward. He recognizes the paradox that whilst we accept that we are part of nature we often act as if we are not. In this podcast I invite Alex to unpack the ways in which 'nature can be the best teacher' and to share what he is doing to explore this in his life and in his work as a coach and mentor to numerous businesses, social action groups, community groups and beyond. You can find out more about Alex: - via his Linked-In profile. - by reading his blogs on - by contacting him at
November 1, 2020
Jackie Le Fèvre #Flexibility-With-No-Loss-Of-Authenticity
Jackie Le Fèvre lives in South Cheshire and is mum to 2 daughters, who she says teach her more everyday than she could hope to help them learn in a lifetime. Jackie works with values; in particular, exploring how understanding values can provide insight and meaning for motivation. She does this through her work at Magma Effect and in her everyday life too! You can find out more about Jackie: -  on Twitter via @MagmaEffect - through her website at - in her blogs at
October 1, 2020
Jeremy Cox #De-Taylorising-Work
Jeremy Cox is a Partner at Easier Inc, where he helps organisations to create better, more human(e) ways of working and better, more human(e) places to work. Jeremy's work sees him challenging the conventions of Management 1.0 and the Taylorist ideas that gave rise to it. His approach aims to find the balancing point between the radical and the pragmatic, helping people to change what they can today while working away at the foudnations for a radically different - and better - future. You can find out more about Jeremy by: - Reading his blogs on - Getting hold of him on Twitter via @JGConline. NB if you are tuning in to this podcast before 1pm on 6th October 2020, you can also join Jeremy in a discussion about the more human(e) workplace as part of our "Exploring Aloud" series of webinars. More details via... - EXPLORING ALOUD: Exploring 'de-Taylorising Work' with Jeremy Cox.
September 2, 2020
Pilar Orti #The-Office-Optional-Workplace
Pilar Orti is the Founder of Virtual Not Distant, where she helps organisations transition to an 'office optional' approach. ‘Office optional’ means that there is no dogma about where people should work - that the right workplace is whatever workplace supports someone to thrive.  Pilar's work sees her challenging workplace conventions and creating thoughtful engagement with questions about what matters to us in our lives and at work, and how technology can help us to create workplaces that are more rather than less human. You can find out more about Pilar by: - Reading her blogs and listening to podcasts she hosts via - Getting hold of her on Twitter via @PilarOrti. NB If you are tuning into this podcast before 1pm on 3rd September 2020 you can also join Pilar for an in depth discussion about her work and the links between 'Remote Working, Planned Spontaneity & Visible Teamwork '. More details via: - EXPLORING ALOUD: 'Remote Working, Planned Spontaneity & Visible Teamwork' with Pilar Orti
August 3, 2020
Nicky Shaw #Emotion-Coaching-And-Next-Stage-Leadership
With 22 years of practical experience as a nursery teacher, Nicky Shaw has developed a neuro-aware approach to supporting children’s social and emotional development. Gone are the behaviourist-inspired techniques of naughty corners, reward stickers and discipline-focused strategies. In their place are attachment-focused conversations and responses, rooted in empathy, that help children to build their emotional literacy and self-regulate their response to emotional triggers. The impacts of this approach have been profound. Perhaps most remarkable has been the impact on how children connect with each other. Even at these very early stages of childhood, the improved emotional literacy of each child has led to empathic interactions and understandings between children and an ability to co-regulate. Nicky’s work with nursery children points the way to something essential in the human condition; a truth about how we really work. The model of emotional literacy and self-regulation that she has developed holds the promise of much a broader application. For example, if nursery children can learn to self-regulate and co-regulate then could this same approach provide a model for leadership, fellowship, coaching, team building, self-management and self-organisation in the workplace? Find out more about Nicky: - Connect via the Next Stage Radicals community of practice or on Twitter @brogeshaw - Read more and get in touch via her University of Strathclyde profile page - Read the National policy document Nicky mentions in the podcast (Realising The Ambition) and which is helping bring this work to scale in Scotland. NB If you are tuning into this podcast before 1pm on 16th September 2020 you can also join Nicky for an in depth discussion about this work and its wider implications for how we all live and work, as part of our 'Exploring Aloud' series of webinars. More details via: - EXPLORING ALOUD: Emotion Coaching & Next Stage Leadership with Nicky Shaw
July 10, 2020
Nick Parker #Creating-A-Next-Stage-Region-Of-200-Organisations
Nick Parker lives and works in the South West of England, while also acting as Council Chair for the 30,000 strong RSA Fellowship. His work is geared towards creating the South West as a 'next stage' region, where has already engaged 200+ organisations in exploring 'next stage' ways of being and working. You can find out more about Nick by connecting with him: - Through the Next Stage Radicals community of practice - At - On Linked-In - On Twitter @nickpkr
June 29, 2020
Henry Stewart #The-Happy-Productive-Workplace
Henry Stewart is author of “The Happy Manifesto”, Chief Happiness Officer and founder at Happy - a London-based learning and consultancy provider that focuses on helping organisations to create happy and productive workplaces. Henry's work sees him supporting people to rethink the role of management, from being 'experts that tell' to being 'coaches that help and support'. You can find out more about Henry by: - Following  or connecting with him on Linked-In. - Downloading the Happy Manifesto from - Signing up for Henry's Happy Workplace Leadership Programme, which is now available online.
May 27, 2020
Saskie Dorman #Making-What-Matters-BAU
Saskie Dorman is a palliative care consultant in Dorset who has been working with local, regional and national colleagues to explore how to make what really matters to people business-as-usual. Her work has led her to challenge many of the conventional approaches to understanding and managing performance and to experiment with alternatives. You can read more about this here, where Saskie and colleagues describe what they have been learning about what it takes to develop a shared understanding of 'what good looks like' in practice. You can find out more about Saskie by: - Viewing her blogs and sketch-notes on - Getting hold of her on Twitter via @saskie_dorman.
May 2, 2020
Mark Smith #Bespoke-by-Default
Mark Smith is Director of Public Service Reform at Gateshead Council in the North East of England (UK). His work sees him challenging the conventions of standard setting and standardisation in order to pursue an approach to public service that he describes as bespoke-by-default. You can find out more about Mark by: - Reading his blogs on  - Getting hold of him on Twitter via @MarkAdamSmith.
April 15, 2020
Introducing the Next Stage Radicals
One year ago (in March 2019) around 100 people met in London to explore the potential for new and better ways of working. From this small event a community of practice has grown; people who are active in exploring what it means and what it takes to really make work work better. We call ourselves the Next Stage Radicals and we are launching this podcast as another way of Exploring Aloud; sharing what we are doing and learning - warts and all - so that others can learn with us. Join us as we try to work out how to move beyond management 1.0 and into 'the next stage'.
April 15, 2020